new deadly human-to-human-transmissible coronavirus emerges out of China
POSTED BY: 1KIKI
UPDATED: Tuesday, May 5, 2026 22:21
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JSF -
Your list of diseases doesn't exist in people with normal immune systems.
Here's the background: there are sometimes people born with one or more parts of their immune system that's not functional. This has been going on as part of our genetic code and noted for as along as written records exist. What that means is that people with deficient immune systems, who get weird infections and cancers no one else gets, have been known to medicine and studied LONG before HIV/ AIDS came around.
It was the fact that these already-recognized diseases of immune system non-function clustered in a new set of patients that started doctor looking at the immune system to see what was going wrong. And they found out that these people started out with normal immune systems, but then something went wrong later on, and they got the same diseases people born with bad immune systems got. That's what AIDS means - acquired immune deficiency syndrome.
So, the fact is that those very weird, rare diseases of immune deficiency correlate with the presence of HIV - human immunodeficiency virus.
Your other 'causes' - marijuana/cocaine - fail Koch's postulates. Once you isolate what you think is the cause, and introduce it into a healthy individual, it has to reliably cause the disease. Marijuana/cocaine don't cause AIDS. If they did the entire country would be blasted by AIDS just on marijuana use alone! Seriously, just ask Jack if he has AIDS from smoking weed. Marijuana/cocaine fail, completely, as causes of AIDS.
OTOH you can track the well being and health of someone who's HIV positive by looking for 1) the viral load in patient's blood - the higher the load, the more chance they'll progress to AIDS, and 2) the number of T-cells (T - or thymus-derived - lymphocytes, which are cells in the immune system that among other things make antibodies), the lower the number of T-cells, the more likely the person is to progress to AIDS.
The mechanism of how HIV destroys T-lymphocytes has even been worked out.
I hope you can take the time to ponder these facts.
But in sum:
Marijuana/cocaine fail Koch's postulates as causes of AIDS.
Otherwise the very large majority of people in the US who have smoked or do smoke marijuana would have AIDS.
OTOH, you'll not find a single case of AIDS (in genetically normal people) without also finding HIV.
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Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:
Short answer: All of the 30+ diseases with their known symptoms and known causes which have, post-1980, been redefined as "AIDS" - even though all of the same exact causes are present, and all of the same exact symptoms are present.
The so-called "AIDS" cases were defined and classed by the "AIDS" advocates to support their AIDS epidemic hysteria, so whatever they used as definition was what was used for the correlation. Since the AIDS hoax was not scientific, it is not like we can retroactively make scientific the illogical diagnosis, they were merely accepted for the criteria of determining correlation.
Somebdy mentioned 2 examples earlier - Kaposi's Sarcoma, and pneumocystis carinii.
I cannot pretend surprise if diarrhea or weight loss were used by AIDS advocates to define their "AIDS" cases, so if that is what the AIDS movement chose to define the cases, then nobody has been able to talk sense into them, then or now.
eta:
WHO’S RECOMMENDED CASE DEFINITION FOR AIDS
Different case definitions are used in different countries, depending on population factors (children, adults, relative occurrence of opportunistic infection) and on the laboratory infrastructure and training available. Current most used case definitions include for countries with... more sophisticated laboratory facilities
CDC 1987 (1)
CDC/CD4 (2)
European (3)
limited laboratory facilities
Abidjan/WHO (4)
Bangui/WHO (clinical) (5)
Caracas/PAHO (6) revised Caracas/PAHO (7)
1. 1987 CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION SURVEILLANCE DEFINITION FOR AIDS
Without laboratory evidence of HIV infection (in the absence of other causes of immune suppression)
Indicator disease diagnosed definitively
Candidiasis of the oesophagus, trachea, bronchi, or lungs
Cryptococcosis, extrapulmonary
Cryptosporidiosis with diarrhoea persisting > 1 month
Cytomegalovirus diseases of an organ other than liver spleen, or lymph nodes in a patient >1 month of age
Herpes simplex virus infection causing a mucocutaneous ulcer persisting > 1 month; or bronchitis, pneumonitis, or
oesophagitis for any duration in a patient > 1 month of age
Kaposi’ s sarcoma in a patient < 60 years of age
Lymphoma of the brain(primary) affecting a patient < 60 years of age
Mycobacterium avuim complex or M .kansasii disease, disseminated (at a site other than or in addition to
lungs, skin, or cervical or hilar lymph nodes)
Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia
Progressive multifocal leukoencephalopathy
Toxoplasmosis of the brain in a patient > 1 month of age
With laboratory evidence of HIV infection
Indicator diseases diagnosed definitively
Coccidiomycosis, disseminated (at a site other than or in addition to lungs or cervical or hilar lymph nodes)
HIV encephalopathy
Histoplasmosis, disseminated(at a sit other than or in addition to lungs or cervical or hilar lymph nodes)
Isosporiasis with diarrhoea persisting > 1 month
Kaposi’ s sarcoma at any age
Lymphoma of the brain (primary ) at any age
Non-Hodgkin’ s lymphoma
Any mycobacterial disease caused by mycobacteria other than M. tuberculosis, disseminated
Disease caused by M. tuberculosis, extrapulmonary
Salmonella (non-typhoid ) septicaemia, recurrent
HIV wasting syndrome
Indicator diseases diagnosed presumptively
Candidiasis of the oesophagus
Cytomegalovirus retinitis with loss of vision
Kaposi’ s sarcoma
Mycobacterial disease, disseminated
Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia
Toxoplasmosis of the brain in a patient> 1 month of age
2. CONDITIONS* ADDED TO THE CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION 1993 SURVEILLANCE DEFINITION FOR AIDS (WITH LABORATORY EVIDENCE OF HIV INFECTION in addition to those in the 1987 surveillance definition:
Source: WHO Recommended Surveillance Standards.
(Geneva: World Health Organization, WHO/EMC/DIS/97.1, 1997).
See http://www.who.int/emc
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In the realm of "never let a good crisis go to waste"
Quote:
Dirty banknotes may be spreading the coronavirus, World Health Organization suggests
**People have been warned to wash their hands after using banknotes - and if possible to use contactless payments instead**
Banknotes may be spreading the new coronavirus so people should try to use contactless payments instead, the World Health Organization has said.
Customers should wash their hands after touching banknotes because infectious Covid-19 may cling to the surface for a number of days, the UN agency said on Monday night. To prevent the spread of the disease, people should use contactless technology where possible, a spokesperson added.
The Bank of England has acknowledged that banknotes "can carry bacteria or viruses" and urged people to wash their hands regularly. It comes after both China and Korea last month began disinfecting and isolating used banknotes as part of their efforts to stop the spread of the virus. Officials used ultraviolet light or high temperatures to sterilise the bills, only putting them back into circulation after they had been sealed and stored for up to 14 days.
A source at the Bank of England insisted there were no plans to do the same in the UK. However the World Health Organization said the British public should exercise care when handling potentially infectious banknotes. Asked whether banknotes could be spreading coronavirus, a WHO spokesman replied: "Yes it’s possible and it’s a good question. We know that money changes hands frequently and can pick up all sorts of bacteria and viruses and things like that.
"We would advise people to wash their hands after handling banknotes, and avoid touching their face. "When possible it’s a good idea to use contactless payments."
Exactly how long the new coronavirus can survive outside the human body has not yet been proven. An analysis of 22 earlier studies of similar coronaviruses, including Severe acute respiratory syndrome (Sars) and Middle East respiratory syndrome (Mers) published online this month in the Journal of Hospital Infection, concluded that human coronaviruses can remain infectious on inanimate surfaces for up to nine days at room temperature.
However, they can quickly be rendered inactive by the use of common disinfectants, and may also dissipate at higher temperatures, the authors wrote. It is not yet clear, however, whether the new coronavirus behaves in a similar way.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/02/exclusive-dirty-banknotes-
may-spreading-coronavirus-world-health/
Well! The WHO tells us not to use banknotes, but STILL refuses to call this a "pandemic"? Considering that some disease-fighting funds can't be released UNTIL the WHO declares a pandemic, which do you suppose might be more effective in fighting the spread of coronavirus ... having the WHO tell us to "launder money", or actually declaring a pandemic?
I see the hand of banks behind both: They have been trying to discourage cash for at least five years (because they have complete tracking and control over digital transfers, unlike cash money which evades government taxes, law enforcement, AND the banks!) AND there are those pandemic bonds! Shame on Tedros.
EVERY CRISIS has a silver lining ... for someone! Especially if they can spin the crisis in their favor.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
In the realm of "never let a good crisis go to waste"Quote:
Dirty banknotes may be spreading the coronavirus, World Health Organization suggests
**People have been warned to wash their hands after using banknotes - and if possible to use contactless payments instead**
Banknotes may be spreading the new coronavirus so people should try to use contactless payments instead, the World Health Organization has said.
Customers should wash their hands after touching banknotes because infectious Covid-19 may cling to the surface for a number of days, the UN agency said on Monday night. To prevent the spread of the disease, people should use contactless technology where possible, a spokesperson added.
The Bank of England has acknowledged that banknotes "can carry bacteria or viruses" and urged people to wash their hands regularly. It comes after both China and Korea last month began disinfecting and isolating used banknotes as part of their efforts to stop the spread of the virus. Officials used ultraviolet light or high temperatures to sterilise the bills, only putting them back into circulation after they had been sealed and stored for up to 14 days.
A source at the Bank of England insisted there were no plans to do the same in the UK. However the World Health Organization said the British public should exercise care when handling potentially infectious banknotes. Asked whether banknotes could be spreading coronavirus, a WHO spokesman replied: "Yes it’s possible and it’s a good question. We know that money changes hands frequently and can pick up all sorts of bacteria and viruses and things like that.
"We would advise people to wash their hands after handling banknotes, and avoid touching their face. "When possible it’s a good idea to use contactless payments."
Exactly how long the new coronavirus can survive outside the human body has not yet been proven. An analysis of 22 earlier studies of similar coronaviruses, including Severe acute respiratory syndrome (Sars) and Middle East respiratory syndrome (Mers) published online this month in the Journal of Hospital Infection, concluded that human coronaviruses can remain infectious on inanimate surfaces for up to nine days at room temperature.
However, they can quickly be rendered inactive by the use of common disinfectants, and may also dissipate at higher temperatures, the authors wrote. It is not yet clear, however, whether the new coronavirus behaves in a similar way.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/02/exclusive-dirty-banknotes-
may-spreading-coronavirus-world-health/
Well! The WHO tells us not to use banknotes, but STILL refuses to call this a "pandemic"? Considering that some disease-fighting funds can't be released UNTIL the WHO declares a pandemic, which do you suppose might be more effective in fighting the spread of coronavirus ... having the WHO tell us to "launder money", or actually declaring a pandemic?
I see the hand of banks behind both: They have been trying to discourage cash for at least five years (because they have complete tracking and control over digital transfers, unlike cash money which evades government taxes, law enforcement, AND the banks!) AND there are those pandemic bonds! Shame on Tedros.
EVERY CRISIS has a silver lining ... for someone! Especially if they can spin the crisis in their favor.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!
So I will now be doing what I can to remove myself from digital currency and only use cash in the future.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/04/health/us-coronavirus-update-wednes
day/index.html
Any American with a doctor's order can now be tested
But will your insurance cover it, or will you foot the bill?
Quote:That's a complete surprise! (not)
The number of US cases has continued to rise since health officials allowed more labs to conduct tests for the virus.
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I've been waiting for this shoe to drop ...
Quote:But what about cases three thru six?
Los Angeles County officials on Wednesday declared a state of emergency as they confirmed six new cases of novel coronavirus in the county.
The county Board of Supervisors and Department of Public Health made the announcement alongside L.A. Mayor Eric Garcetti and public health officials from Long Beach and Pasadena, which both have their own public health department.
County Supervisors and the Los Angeles City Council are both expected to hear reports during their Wednesday meetings about the status of the illness locally.
The county's second case
Quote:
of COVID-19 was confirmed on Tuesday by Kaiser Permanente who is overseeing the care of the patient, currently in self-isolation and being treated as an outpatient, a spokesperson said. Additional details regarding the case were not available.
LA County might be at the case/case/case/cluster/cluster/BOOM! part of the exponential part of the curve.
LA County is very large. Does it mean anything that the Mayor of LA was flanked by Public Health officials of Pasadena and Long Beach? (We worked with LB Public Health lab on a toxic risk, I was VERY impressed with the dedication of the doctor who testified and helped us close down a facility.)
I guess I don't feel like a total idiot making such a fashion-forward statement wearing a mask! Also, withdrawing dear daughter from her gym-based exercise program. We need to beef up our hand/item sanitizing protocol at home because things are crossing the "clean/dirty" line that need to addressed.
But even with all of these precautions, I believe that we will all get sick, sooner or later.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!
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Quote:I've been looking at how to care for a sick person with coronavirus as instructive for how to avoid it in a contaminated or potentially contaminated environment. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/community/home/cleaning-disi
We need to beef up our hand/item sanitizing protocol at home because things are crossing the "clean/dirty" line that need to addressed.
nfection.html
The relevant parts are:
"Household members should clean hands often, including immediately after removing gloves and after contact with an ill person, by washing hands with soap and water for 20 seconds. If soap and water are not available and hands are not visibly dirty, an alcohol-based hand sanitizer that contains at least 60% alcohol may be used. However, if hands are visibly dirty, always wash hands with soap and water." You're not going to wear gloves while going grocery shopping! But sanitizing your hands when you get home seems appropriate.
"Household members should follow normal preventive actions while at work and home including recommended hand hygiene and avoiding touching eyes, nose, or mouth with unwashed hands." So wearing a mask when out and about, to remind you to not touch your face, seems useful.
There are things you bring in directly from the outside, groceries and money come to mind. I don't think groceries, like cans, bags, or boxes have a high likelihood of being contaminated. Money might be just because it's been through many, many hands; but if you're not handling it at home, it shouldn't be a problem. If you DO handle it at home, simply wash or sanitize your hands afterwards.
I suggest sanitizing your phone (wipes) and wallet (if its non-porous) and its closures (wipes or hand san), and perhaps a leather purse-strap (wipes or hand san) when you get home, simply because you touch those things many times outside of the house.
So masks outside and hand sanitizer at the home entry are good.
If SARS-COV-2 is similar to other coronaviruses, it can last as long as 8 days ON NON-POROUS SURFACES under ordinary conditions. But porous surfaces are another matter entirely! I wouldn't worry about any of your stuff that doesn't directly come from outside the outside, with the exception of things you touch often - phone, wallet, purse-strap; and wash or sanitize your hands after you handle money in the house.
IN SUM: the things you have to worry about are: 1) touching your face with contaminated hands, which makes wearing a mask outside the house an excellent reminder; 2) hands that get contaminated outside the house, which makes hand sanitizer at the entry an excellent!!! preventative; 3) things that come directly into the house from the outside; which means washing your hands after you handle money in the house a good preventative. Cleaning cell phones, wallets and purse straps are additional precautions - because you touch those things OFTEN outside of the house then inside of the house.
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I've heard new numbers for the virus fatality rate are extremely low.
0% fatality rate for those under 10.
.2% fatality rate for those under 40.
.4% fatality rate for those under 50.
It gets a little higher from there, but not even on the level of the common flu.
Has anybody else heard this? I didn't read it. Heard it from a family member.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Nobody really knows! To know, they'd have to know how many people have the virus - which they don't, because the testing's been extremely limited. And then they'd have to accurately diagnose how many people died from it postmortem.
I don't think anyone has those numbers.
But - bummer - there's indication that the reason why so many who died in China have been males, while females have been spared, is because so many males smoke, while females don't.
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I think I have the answer for our cloth bag-handles: 70 pct IPA spray. (They say that water helps the alcohol penetrate the virus surface; which makes sense bc the proteins have to "unpack" a little before they're active, and they "unpack" with water.) I know that some say that porous surfaces are not a concern, but Chris Martensen's video has a chart of various surfaces showing long-lasting recoverability from paper. Roughly 5 days cooling-off for anything should reduce the contamination.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!
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JACK, I just want to backtrack for a minute.
After a the last couple of pages in this thread by your logic of NOT believing that AIDS/HIV is real or the Novel Corona Virus.
Then I guess every epidemic that has happened to humanity through history have been hoaxes too.
Like the Black Death that swept through Europe in the 14th Century and later. It killed almost half the population of Europe. I guess that was the churches making it all up. And the plague pits that are still accidentally found around London and sometimes Paris aren't real and the bones they find aren't real either.
Coming farther forward then small pox outbreaks in Europe weren't real either before Europeans bringing it to North America.
The pox infected blankets that were given to Native American villages that wiped the people out because we didn't have an immunity to it. Or those who were so sick and in pain, they went back to white towns and rubbed their bodies on the buildings thinking they could give the disease back to the White Man.
Moving along I suppose Typhoid Mary wasn't a real person. She was a carrier but didn't show any signs of the disease until near the end of her life. But she left death in her wake everywhere she worked.
Further still the Spanish Flu of 1918 after WWI.
Further still more small pox outbreaks in the US, measles and another big one polio that crippled hundreds of children. FDR was a victim of that one.
I guess dirty water doesn't carry disease in it.
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Quote:I'm pretty careful and even I'M not going that far! The source of contamination on say grocery bag handles is too indirect (hands that may have touched something touch the handles) imo to be of concern.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I think I have the answer for our cloth bag-handles: 70 pct IPA spray. (They say that water helps the alcohol penetrate the virus surface; which makes sense bc the proteins have to "unpack" a little before they're active, and they "unpack" with water.) I know that some say that porous surfaces are not a concern, but Chris Martensen's video has a chart of various surfaces showing long-lasting recoverability from paper. Roughly 5 days cooling-off for anything should reduce the contamination.
But MONEY may have been directly contaminated, which makes that concern far more direct.
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Quote:The widely quoted average case-fatality rate for the common flu is 0.08%. The widely-quoted average case-fatality rate for the Wuhan flu is 2% ... roughly 20X higher than the normal flu (altho it has been recently recalculated at 3.5% based on ex-China experience.)
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I've heard new numbers for the virus fatality rate are extremely low.
0% fatality rate for those under 10.
.2% fatality rate for those under 40.
.4% fatality rate for those under 50.
It gets a little higher from there, but not even on the level of the common flu.
Has anybody else heard this? I didn't read it. Heard it from a family member.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
It didn't get "a little" higher, it got A LOT higher with age: 15% for 80+, 8% for 70-79, 4% for 60-69, 8% for people with heart conditions and 7% for people with diabetes
https://i.insider.com/5e583c47fee23d4cf4755b27?width=1300&format=j
peg&auto=webp
https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-death-age-older-people-hig
her-risk-2020-2?op=1
The only way that they can get a better number for the Wuhan flu is by literally doing random testing to determine what percent of the population has it, and with the shortage of test kits/ test facilities they are saving those for people who are seriously ill ... which skews the sampling and increases the apparent case-fatality rate. So, back to what KIKI said: nobody really knows.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!
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https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-03-04/los-angeles-county
-declares-coronavirus-emergency-6-new-cases
None of the new cases are connected to “community spread,” officials said. All individuals were exposed to COVID-19 through close contacts.
Officials said three of the new cases were travelers who had visited northern Italy, two were family members who had close contact with someone outside of the county who was infected, and one had a job that put them in contact with travelers.
Just a comment - but in the absence of community testing, they really can't say anything definitive either about community spread or where these cases really came from.
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Just to follow up because I added this later:
IN SUM: the things you have to worry about are: 1) touching your face with contaminated hands, which makes wearing a mask outside the house an excellent reminder; 2) hands that get contaminated outside the house, which makes hand sanitizer at the entry an excellent!!! preventative; 3) things that come directly into the house from the outside; which means washing your hands after you handle money in the house a good preventative. Cleaning cell phones, wallets and purse straps are additional precautions - because you touch those things OFTEN outside of the house then inside of the house.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
JACK, I just want to backtrack for a minute.
After a the last couple of pages in this thread by your logic of NOT believing that AIDS/HIV is real or the Novel Corona Virus.
Then I guess every epidemic that has happened to humanity through history have been hoaxes too.
Like the Black Death that swept through Europe in the 14th Century and later. It killed almost half the population of Europe. I guess that was the churches making it all up. And the plague pits that are still accidentally found around London and sometimes Paris aren't real and the bones they find aren't real either.
Coming farther forward then small pox outbreaks in Europe weren't real either before Europeans bringing it to North America.
The pox infected blankets that were given to Native American villages that wiped the people out because we didn't have an immunity to it. Or those who were so sick and in pain, they went back to white towns and rubbed their bodies on the buildings thinking they could give the disease back to the White Man.
Moving along I suppose Typhoid Mary wasn't a real person. She was a carrier but didn't show any signs of the disease until near the end of her life. But she left death in her wake everywhere she worked.
Further still the Spanish Flu of 1918 after WWI.
Further still more small pox outbreaks in the US, measles and another big one polio that crippled hundreds of children. FDR was a victim of that one.
I guess dirty water doesn't carry disease in it.
No. There were diseases and lillnesses that were real. AIDS just isn't one of them.
I'm not denying that Corona virus exists. Just saying that it's not scary.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:You've never heard of smart phones and corrupted search engines? You've forgotten that google is smarter than anybody carrying a smartphone? They cannot be bothered to think.
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
I can't believe this. SOMEbody must be punking us.
38% Of People In Survey Are Avoiding Corona Beer Due To Coronavirus
https://www.kxan.com/news/coronavirus/americans-avoiding-corona-beer-a
mid-coronavirus-outbreak-survey/
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Quote:To help move this discussion along a bit, can you name the person who developed the hypothesis that "AIDS" was caused by HIV? If you wish to include the year, that is fine as well.
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:Meaning the following 4 pillars are equally loaded, and the failure of any one pillar collapses the premise/hypothesis/belief.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Where is your EVIDENCE? Bring your cites and links here, so we can discuss them, because everything I have read says otherwise.
In order to meet the criteria that the HIV virus causes disease, it meets the following criteria:Quote:Here you are tiptoeing carefully round the facts. I don't have my books or references handy right now, so I must recall what I can. Of the correlations of "the disease" (meaning the symptom package), the presence of the HIV Antibody ranks 3rd, with around 80% correlation among those not subjected to "AIDS Medications" (aka Drugs). The 2 correlations which are greater are one at about mid-80's and the other about 92%. I forget the order of the 2, but the correlations are for Marijuana Abuse, and for Cocaine Use/Abuse. Not the greatest or most convincing argument for any virus causing any "desease" - although in reasearch, correlation is a useful clue.
1. The presence of the virus is correlated with the disease.
Correlation does not equal causation.Quote:This is not true. If it were true, then far more folk would have less reason to dispute the premise. Not all who have the symptoms have the HIV Antibody (which is the "test for HIV"). Since the 1920s or 1930s, many thousands of those who have had the symptoms did not have the HIV Antibody (known) although they did still have the known causes of these symptoms - just like these "AIDS" cases continue to have the same known causes, known and listed in DSM-IV since the 1950's.
2. While not everyone who has the virus has the symptoms, everone who has the symptoms has the virus.Quote:This is not true. For groups who were "exposed" and tested positive for the HIV Antibody, and then LEFT UNTREATED for decades, symptoms and "disease" never presented and they had normally healthy lives.
3. Those who previously did not have the virus (demonstrated) later acquire both symptoms and virus after exposure.Quote:So, of the 4 required pillars (as you stated), 3 are failures, so your premise collapses. As does your denomination/sect of your AIDS Religion.
4. Focusing treatment on the virus (with anti-retrovirals and other anti-virals) reduces both symptoms and assayed viral load.Quote:
It seems to me that the person with th religion is you, so bring your arguments forth and we can discuss them.
*****
Now, I'm well aware that there are many "diseases" that aren't caused by germs: Heart disease. Nutritional deficiencies like pellagra disease. Rhuematoid arthritis and other autoimmune "dieases". Genetic and mitochondrial diseases.
Still, you can't dismiss the "germ theory of disease" in relationship to AIDS. Well, maybe YOU can, but you shouldn't.
If you are looking for information to enlighten yourself, I noticed virusmyth.com - which I had not seen before, but I recognize many of the authors.
Again:
To help move this discussion along a bit, can you name the person who developed the hypothesis that "AIDS" was caused by HIV? If you wish to include the year, that is fine as well.
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JSF - I posted a whole bunch of facts for you including links to research showing HIV is the cause of AIDS. If you wish to continue to ignore/ deny facts, I'm just letting you know the only person who ends up looking like an idiot is you.
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Quote:Well now, lots of lies in that post, but the final lies seems quite blatant.
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
JSF -
Your list of diseases doesn't exist in people with normal immune systems.
Here's the background: there are sometimes people born with one or more parts of their immune system that's not functional. This has been going on as part of our genetic code and noted for as along as written records exist. What that means is that people with deficient immune systems, who get weird infections and cancers no one else gets, have been known to medicine and studied LONG before HIV/ AIDS came around.
It was the fact that these already-recognized diseases of immune system non-function clustered in a new set of patients that started doctor looking at the immune system to see what was going wrong. And they found out that these people started out with normal immune systems, but then something went wrong later on, and they got the same diseases people born with bad immune systems got. That's what AIDS means - acquired immune deficiency syndrome.
So, the fact is that those very weird, rare diseases of immune deficiency correlate with the presence of HIV - human immunodeficiency virus.
Your other 'causes' - marijuana/cocaine - fail Koch's postulates. Once you isolate what you think is the cause, and introduce it into a healthy individual, it has to reliably cause the disease. Marijuana/cocaine don't cause AIDS. If they did the entire country would be blasted by AIDS just on marijuana use alone! Seriously, just ask Jack if he has AIDS from smoking weed. Marijuana/cocaine fail, completely, as causes of AIDS.
OTOH you can track the well being and health of someone who's HIV positive by looking for 1) the viral load in patient's blood - the higher the load, the more chance they'll progress to AIDS, and 2) the number of T-cells (T - or thymus-derived - lymphocytes, which are cells in the immune system that among other things make antibodies), the lower the number of T-cells, the more likely the person is to progress to AIDS.
The mechanism of how HIV destroys T-lymphocytes has even been worked out.
I hope you can take the time to ponder these facts.
But in sum:
Marijuana/cocaine fail Koch's postulates as causes of AIDS.
Otherwise the very large majority of people in the US who have smoked or do smoke marijuana would have AIDS.
OTOH, you'll not find a single case of AIDS (in genetically normal people) without also finding HIV.
You will not find HIV in any living person, right? HIV in humans is only found in dead people, who could not produce the Antibody. In order to prove that the person has "immuno-deficiency" the only test is used to prove the immune system is working and functional - by testing for the presence of the HIV Antibody, the product of the working immune system.
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Quote:Your very first response JSF was something about some sort of correlation, which YOU claimed was at 92%. (oh btw that would be 0.92, not percent.) You have to show what you're correlating to what (Kaposi's sarcoma correlated to cocaine use?) first, and provide that data behind that correlation. It seems to be central to your opinion that AIDS isn't caused by the HIV, and I'm not going to "move the discussion along" at your convenience because you want to skip past that point.
To help move this discussion along a bit, can you name the person who developed the hypothesis that "AIDS" was caused by HIV? If you wish to include the year, that is fine as well.
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Quote:WTF?? OF COURSE you find HIV in living people! That's what "viral load" means.
You will not find HIV in any living person, right? HIV in humans is only found in dead people, who could not produce the Antibody. In order to prove that the person has "immuno-deficiency" the only test is used to prove the immune system is working and functional - by testing for the presence of the HIV Antibody, the product of the working immune system.
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Pity would be no more,
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Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:
Short answer: All of the 30+ diseases with their known symptoms and known causes which have, post-1980, been redefined as "AIDS" - even though all of the same exact causes are present, and all of the same exact symptoms are present.
The so-called "AIDS" cases were defined and classed by the "AIDS" advocates to support their AIDS epidemic hysteria, so whatever they used as definition was what was used for the correlation. Since the AIDS hoax was not scientific, it is not like we can retroactively make scientific the illogical diagnosis, they were merely accepted for the criteria of determining correlation.
Somebdy mentioned 2 examples earlier - Kaposi's Sarcoma, and pneumocystis carinii.
I cannot pretend surprise if diarrhea or weight loss were used by AIDS advocates to define their "AIDS" cases, so if that is what the AIDS movement chose to define the cases, then nobody has been able to talk sense into them, then or now.
eta:
WHO’S RECOMMENDED CASE DEFINITION FOR AIDS
Different case definitions are used in different countries, depending on population factors (children, adults, relative occurrence of opportunistic infection) and on the laboratory infrastructure and training available. Current most used case definitions include for countries with... more sophisticated laboratory facilities
CDC 1987 (1)
CDC/CD4 (2)
European (3)
limited laboratory facilities
Abidjan/WHO (4)
Bangui/WHO (clinical) (5)
Caracas/PAHO (6) revised Caracas/PAHO (7)
1. 1987 CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION SURVEILLANCE DEFINITION FOR AIDS
Without laboratory evidence of HIV infection (in the absence of other causes of immune suppression)
Indicator disease diagnosed definitively
Candidiasis of the oesophagus, trachea, bronchi, or lungs
Cryptococcosis, extrapulmonary
Cryptosporidiosis with diarrhoea persisting > 1 month
Cytomegalovirus diseases of an organ other than liver spleen, or lymph nodes in a patient >1 month of age
Herpes simplex virus infection causing a mucocutaneous ulcer persisting > 1 month; or bronchitis, pneumonitis, or
oesophagitis for any duration in a patient > 1 month of age
Kaposi’ s sarcoma in a patient < 60 years of age
Lymphoma of the brain(primary) affecting a patient < 60 years of age
Mycobacterium avuim complex or M .kansasii disease, disseminated (at a site other than or in addition to
lungs, skin, or cervical or hilar lymph nodes)
Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia
Progressive multifocal leukoencephalopathy
Toxoplasmosis of the brain in a patient > 1 month of age
With laboratory evidence of HIV infection
Indicator diseases diagnosed definitively
Coccidiomycosis, disseminated (at a site other than or in addition to lungs or cervical or hilar lymph nodes)
HIV encephalopathy
Histoplasmosis, disseminated(at a sit other than or in addition to lungs or cervical or hilar lymph nodes)
Isosporiasis with diarrhoea persisting > 1 month
Kaposi’ s sarcoma at any age
Lymphoma of the brain (primary ) at any age
Non-Hodgkin’ s lymphoma
Any mycobacterial disease caused by mycobacteria other than M. tuberculosis, disseminated
Disease caused by M. tuberculosis, extrapulmonary
Salmonella (non-typhoid ) septicaemia, recurrent
HIV wasting syndrome
Indicator diseases diagnosed presumptively
Candidiasis of the oesophagus
Cytomegalovirus retinitis with loss of vision
Kaposi’ s sarcoma
Mycobacterial disease, disseminated
Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia
Toxoplasmosis of the brain in a patient> 1 month of age
2. CONDITIONS* ADDED TO THE CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION 1993 SURVEILLANCE DEFINITION FOR AIDS (WITH LABORATORY EVIDENCE OF HIV INFECTION in addition to those in the 1987 surveillance definition:
Source: WHO Recommended Surveillance Standards.
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I think he doesn't understand that they can test for the actual HIV in people.
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Quote:WTF?? OF COURSE you find HIV in living people! That's what "viral load" means.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:
You will not find HIV in any living person, right? HIV in humans is only found in dead people, who could not produce the Antibody. In order to prove that the person has "immuno-deficiency" the only test is used to prove the immune system is working and functional - by testing for the presence of the HIV Antibody, the product of the working immune system.
Well, as of the turn of the century, no living person had been found with HIV present in their bodies. Can you provide reference for the first case found? What year was that?
That would be an HIV Negative person who had HIV.
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Quote:What is the test for that?
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
I think he doesn't understand that they can test for the actual HIV in people.
HIV Positive means the HIV Antibody is present. What is the test for live HIV presence?
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The test for actual HIV 'antigen' (ie - the HIV proteins) in the blood.
Quote:
https://www.webmd.com/hiv-aids/hiv-aids-screening#1
(Antibody/) antigen combination tests
The CDC recommends these blood tests. They can detect HIV earlier than antibody screening tests. They check for HIV antigen, a protein called p24 that's part of the virus and shows up 2 to 4 weeks after infection. (They also check for HIV antibodies.)
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Quote:LA County is almost 4 times the geographica size of the State of Rhode Island, and their population is more than 9 times that of RI.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I've been waiting for this shoe to drop ...Quote:But what about cases three thru six?
Los Angeles County officials on Wednesday declared a state of emergency as they confirmed six new cases of novel coronavirus in the county.
The county Board of Supervisors and Department of Public Health made the announcement alongside L.A. Mayor Eric Garcetti and public health officials from Long Beach and Pasadena, which both have their own public health department.
County Supervisors and the Los Angeles City Council are both expected to hear reports during their Wednesday meetings about the status of the illness locally.
The county's second caseQuote:
of COVID-19 was confirmed on Tuesday by Kaiser Permanente who is overseeing the care of the patient, currently in self-isolation and being treated as an outpatient, a spokesperson said. Additional details regarding the case were not available.
LA County might be at the case/case/case/cluster/cluster/BOOM! part of the exponential part of the curve.
LA County is very large. Does it mean anything that the Mayor of LA was flanked by Public Health officials of Pasadena and Long Beach? (We worked with LB Public Health lab on a toxic risk, I was VERY impressed with the dedication of the doctor who testified and helped us close down a facility.)
If LA County were a separate state, it would have about 15 Representatives in the House. It has more than 1/4 of the population of CA.
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Quote:Which century are you posting about? 1900? 2000? Your info is seriously out of date.
Well, as of the turn of the century, no living person had been found with HIV present in their bodies.
KIKI, you might want to explain that the p24 antigen is part of the virus, NOT an antibody. That's what "antigen" means.
I have found a good historic reference to the isolation from, and detection of, HIV (the virus) from LIVING PEOPLE. However, I'm not going to discuss that until you clarify your "correlation". I understand correlations, I used them all the time at work: it is the relationship between "X" and "Y". NOT between "X" and "A,B,C,D, or E or ....
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If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
The test for actual HIV 'antigen' (ie - the HIV proteins) in the blood.Quote:
https://www.webmd.com/hiv-aids/hiv-aids-screening#1
(Antibody/) antigen combination tests
The CDC recommends these blood tests. They can detect HIV earlier than antibody screening tests. They check for HIV antigen, a protein called p24 that's part of the virus and shows up 2 to 4 weeks after infection. (They also check for HIV antibodies.)
If you’re infected with HIV, an antigen called p24 is produced even before antibodies develop.
https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/testing/index.html
The antigen IS PRODUCED after HIV infection, part of the Immune System response, proving that the Immune System is working and functioning.
This is before the Immune System produces the Antibody, further proving the Immune System is responding, working, functioning properly.
But thanks for trying.
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Jeezus, JSF, learn a little biology. p24 is produced, but by what? The human immune system, or the retrovirus itself? (HINT: look up the definition of "antigen")
Do you know how viruses work? They insert themselves into human cells and take over the protein production to make a lot more of themselves, until the cell explodes from virus particles. Viruses have preferred host cells. Some like to live in the nose ... like rhinovirus. Others in the gut, like norovirus. Some like to live in the throat, like ncov-19, and others in T cells, like HIV.
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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!
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Quote:JSF - p24 IS A VIRAL PROTEIN NOT A HUMAN PROTEIN PRODUCED BY THE IMMUNE SYSTEM.
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
The antigen IS PRODUCED after HIV infection, part of the Immune System response, proving that the Immune System is working and functioning.
This is before the Immune System produces the Antibody, further proving the Immune System is responding, working, functioning properly.
But thanks for trying.
Do you know NOTHING about biology - at all?
Viruses hijack cells to produce more viruses like themselves. They do this by using the cells' machinery to produce viral proteins, and viral genetic code (RNA or DNA - which are nucleic acids, not proteins).
If a human is producing viral proteins, it's because they're infected with the virus.
Or, to be absolutely direct about it - a human that's producing HIV p24 protein is infected with HIV.
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More of Hilliary's best and brightest.
Dartmouth Administrator gets coronavirus confirmation, is told to remain in place quarantine, so he goes to black tie invitation-only event to infect the senior doctors at Dartmouth Hitchcock Medical.
https://www.unionleader.com/news/health/coronavirus/first-to-test-posi
tive-with-coronavirus-disregarded-advice-attended-invitation/article_2da63bb4-818e-5774-a213-f40777cb0180.html
Geniuses, right there.
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James Bond delayed until November.
https://nationalpost.com/entertainment/movies/james-bond-sequel-delaye
d-till-november-amid-virus-outbreak
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kiki ear.ier wondered about China pollution effects from coronavirus.
I don't have the charts, but heard on radio that the polution as viewed from space went from the norm, heavily polluted in Dec, to either Jan or FEb the whole screen was clear.
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Quote:JSF - p24 IS A VIRAL PROTEIN NOT A HUMAN PROTEIN PRODUCED BY THE IMMUNE SYSTEM.
Originally posted by 1KIKI:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
The antigen IS PRODUCED after HIV infection, part of the Immune System response, proving that the Immune System is working and functioning.
This is before the Immune System produces the Antibody, further proving the Immune System is responding, working, functioning properly.
But thanks for trying.
Do you know NOTHING about biology - at all?
Viruses hijack cells to produce more viruses like themselves. They do this by using the cells' machinery to produce viral proteins, and viral genetic code (RNA or DNA - which are nucleic acids, not proteins).
If a human is producing viral proteins, it's because they're infected with the virus.
Or, to be absolutely direct about it - a human that's producing HIV p24 protein is infected with HIV.
Thanks for the update.
It still looks like once the Antibody is produced, the Virus is displaced. Is this correct? or are you saying they co-exist side by side?
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Quote:Jumping in for KIKI ... antibodies are produced but they're insufficient to clear the virus, so both exist. That's not unheard-of: Once the immune system is activated the chickenpox symptoms disappear, but the virus isn't completely killed- it goes to hide in nerve cells and can re-emerge decades later as shingles. You still have circulating antibodies, tho.
It still looks like once the Antibody is produced, the Virus is displaced. Is this correct? or are you saying they co-exist side by side?
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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!
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Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
James Bond delayed until November.
https://nationalpost.com/entertainment/movies/james-bond-sequel-delaye
d-till-november-amid-virus-outbreak
Nobody is going to watch that anyway. But at least they can't blame Coronavirus for it this time.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:
It still looks like once the Antibody is produced, the Virus is displaced. Is this correct? or are you saying they co-exist side by side?
Quote:I wish * I * had said that, Signy.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Jumping in for KIKI ... antibodies are produced but they're insufficient to clear the virus, so both exist. That's not unheard-of: Once the immune system is activated the chickenpox symptoms disappear, but the virus isn't completely killed- it goes to hide in nerve cells and can re-emerge decades later as shingles. You still have circulating antibodies, tho.
JSF, Signy is correct.
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More US cases, in more US states, with more US deaths, and now the US has it's own (Grand) 'Princess' cruise ship experiment, to see if it can do better than Japan.
The ship afaik sailed round trip between SanFran and Mexico, with 2 passengers who developed symptoms during the cruise debarking in SanFran, with one layer dying. The ship was to sail from SanFran with a call in Ensanada before sailing on to Hawaii, with 62 people still on board from the earlier Mexico trip for the Hawaii trip. It was called back from its route and has dropped anchor off of SanFran while officials determine what to do. But because it's 'travel' related - thought not to or from any high-risk areas - it's not considered community spread. I would consider that fudging the numbers. https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2020/03/04/1st-california-coronaviru
s-death-san-francisco-mexico-princess-cruise-ship-placer-county/
The one thing there is less of is test kits being delivered as compared to how many were promised.
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lol rich people.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:Definitely fudging numbers - what the CDC is for.
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
More US cases, in more US states, with more US deaths, and now the US has it's own (Grand) 'Princess' cruise ship experiment, to see if it can do better than Japan.
The ship afaik sailed round trip between SanFran and Mexico, with 2 passengers who developed symptoms during the cruise debarking in SanFran, with one layer dying. The ship was to sail from SanFran with a call in Ensanada before sailing on to Hawaii, with 62 people still on board from the earlier Mexico trip for the Hawaii trip. It was called back from its route and has dropped anchor off of SanFran while officials determine what to do. But because it's 'travel' related - thought not to or from any high-risk areas - it's not considered community spread. I would consider that fudging the numbers. https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2020/03/04/1st-california-coronaviru
s-death-san-francisco-mexico-princess-cruise-ship-placer-county/
The one thing there is less of is test kits being delivered as compared to how many were promised.
So, it got called back as a caution, or something was up before it headed to HI?
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Quote:Thanks for the update.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:Jumping in for KIKI ... antibodies are produced but they're insufficient to clear the virus, so both exist. That's not unheard-of: Once the immune system is activated the chickenpox symptoms disappear, but the virus isn't completely killed- it goes to hide in nerve cells and can re-emerge decades later as shingles. You still have circulating antibodies, tho.
It still looks like once the Antibody is produced, the Virus is displaced. Is this correct? or are you saying they co-exist side by side?
So, in all of these cases, do the bodies produce the Antibody? Or do HIV Present cases now have HIV Negative results for Antibody?
To help move this discussion along a bit, can you name the person who developed the hypothesis that "AIDS" was caused by HIV? If you wish to include the year, that is fine as well.
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Quote:This is as I understand the situation. The Grand Princess made the round trip SF to Mexico and back. At least 1 person developed symptoms onboard during that trip. A number of passengers disembarked on return to SF, 62 remained. Of the disembarked passengers, 2 later tested positive for SARS-COV-2, and one of the 2 passed away.
So, it (Grand Princess) got called back as a caution, or something was up before it headed to HI?
At that point the Grand Princess had already set sail for Mexico port of call, to eventually head to Hawaii. Before it reached Mexico, it was recalled to SF due to the test results/ death of the 2 disembarked passengers, but not allowed to dock. So I presume it dropped anchor somewhere in open water.
At this point afaik over 100 people, have flu-like symptoms.
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Quote:Eventually yes, people produce antibodies. Unfortunately, the antibodies aren't 'protective', meaning they don't allow the body to eliminate the virus. (And that's been a HUGE problem with creating a vaccine, which is why there's no deployed vaccine to this date. People do develop antibodies to the virus, but those antibodies don't 'neutralize' the virus.)
So, in all of these cases, do the bodies produce the Antibody? Or do HIV Present cases now have HIV Negative results for Antibody?
Quote:I don't remember the names of the individuals who did the research, but there were co-claims from both the CDC and the Pasteur Institute in Paris to have isolated the causative agent. It was ~1983.
To help move this discussion along a bit, can you name the person who developed the hypothesis that "AIDS" was caused by HIV? If you wish to include the year, that is fine as well.
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Quote:I hate to be a nudge about this, but I'm not going to move off that "correlation" that you claim exists until you find the data and link it or at least cite it.
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:Thanks for the update.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:Jumping in for KIKI ... antibodies are produced but they're insufficient to clear the virus, so both exist. That's not unheard-of: Once the immune system is activated the chickenpox symptoms disappear, but the virus isn't completely killed- it goes to hide in nerve cells and can re-emerge decades later as shingles. You still have circulating antibodies, tho.
It still looks like once the Antibody is produced, the Virus is displaced. Is this correct? or are you saying they co-exist side by side?
So, in all of these cases, do the bodies produce the Antibody? Or do HIV Present cases now have HIV Negative results for Antibody?
To help move this discussion along a bit, can you name the person who developed the hypothesis that "AIDS" was caused by HIV? If you wish to include the year, that is fine as well.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!
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Quote:Not sure if Olympics has been mentioned in this thread. They claim to be holding off on a decision of whether to cancel.
Originally posted by 1KIKI:Quote:The pandemic bonds mature July 2020.
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/03/asia/novel-coronavirus-covid-19-int
l-hnk/index.html
The head of the World Health Organization (WHO) said that public health officials are operating in "uncharted territory" as they combat the spread of the novel coronavirus, which has infected more than 90,000 people across 73 countries and territories as of Monday evening.
The WHO has so far held off on classifying the incident as a global pandemic, but has warned it is a possibility in the near future.Quote:Because there's "only" 100 cases in the US ... that they know of.
"Let's be clear: The risk to the American people of the coronavirus remains low, according to all of the experts that we are working with across the government," Pence said.
24 July in Tokyo.
Can they wait until the bonds mature before making a decision on the Games?
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This site
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
now says 16% of Active Cases are critical/serious, 6% of Closed cases are fatal.
DP cases have 6 deaths (down from 7!! Maybe 1 undied). 212 recovered, 35 serious/critical.
Germany is about to surpass Diamond Princess for 5th place.
US is in 10th place, with 221 cases and 9 recoveries. 12 deaths.
Canada is 24th place, with 45 cases, 8 recoveries. 0 deaths.
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Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
DP cases have 6 deaths (down from 7!! Maybe 1 undied). 212 recovered, 35 serious/critical.
You joke, but that's how the zombie apocalypse starts.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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From Feb 28.
More when I get time.
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:You must be trolling us.
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Just anecdotal "evidence" as far as I'm concerned.
AIDS isn't likely to be real.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
I mean, I knew in the beginning of the epidemic there were people who insisted ... INSISTED, I TELL YOU... that a retrovirus wasn't the cause of AIDS, that it was a "lifestyle" disease caused by drug use and the "homosexual lifestyle".
That non-homosexuals and non-drug users (like, children who caught it from their mothers during birth) also got AIDS? Piffle!
That clean living and vitamins didn't provide a cure? Just a hoax!
That the virus was isolated from patients and its sequence determined, and it was seen under electron microscope? An incidental finding!
That antivirals reversed the symptoms and allowed patients to live longer, healthier lives? A hoax by Big Pharma!
That the disease could be prevented by using condoms during sex, despite all the rest of the "homosexual lifestyle"? Sheer placebo effect!
It was as crazy-making as listening to a flat-earther deny direct, experiential evidence that the earth is round.
I thought that the idea of the "non-viral" origin of AIDS had disappeared under the onslaught of evidence, but apparently there still are adherents to the idea, just as there are still flat-earthers around.
Well, it takes all kinds, I guess! The world would be a lot less interesting if everyone just accepted evidence! Carry on!
To help move this discussion along a bit, can you name the person who developed the hypothesis that "AIDS" was caused by HIV? If you wish to include the year, that is fine as well.
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Quote:Sorry - NO ONE PERSON 'developed' the hypothesis. Teams did research and ISOLATED THE CAUSATIVE AGENT. Those teams were at the CDC and Pasteur Institute.
To help move this discussion along a bit, can you name the person who developed the hypothesis that "AIDS" was caused by HIV? If you wish to include the year, that is fine as well.
I'm sorry you don't understand the basics of scientific research, but I'm not going to create a high-school-through-graduate-level biology course of study for you just to make up for your lack of information.
If you don't like the history as it exists in the real world, feel free to look up whatever alternate reality you think might be out there on your own.
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Yes. Do a lot of research yourself about fake research that fake people did about a fake virus, JSF.
Or just drop it and let people live with their delusions. You or anybody you care about will never get AIDS because AIDS doesn't get anybody.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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snicker
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Quote:Except calling it a "pandemic", which would cost the buyers of "pandemic bonds" their investment.
“We are calling on every country to act with speed, scale and clear-minded determination,” the WHO’s director general, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, said at the UN health agency’s Geneva headquarters.
Tedros voiced concern that “some countries have either not taken this seriously enough, or have decided there is nothing they can do,” Reuters reports. “This is not the time to give up. This is not a time for excuses. This is a time for pulling out all the stops,” he added.
Sheesh.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!
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Quote:Your very first response JSF was something about some sort of correlation, which YOU claimed was at 92%. (oh btw that would be 0.92, not percent.) You have to show what you're correlating to what (Kaposi's sarcoma correlated to cocaine use?) first, and provide that data behind that correlation. It seems to be central to your opinion that AIDS isn't caused by the HIV, and I'm not going to "move the discussion along" at your convenience because you want to skip past that point
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:
To help move this discussion along a bit, can you name the person who developed the hypothesis that "AIDS" was caused by HIV? If you wish to include the year, that is fine as well.
Still not going to move off that point, JSF.
You're a "numbers guy". Well, show me the numbers.
As I have said before, I used correlations all of the time at work. I even calculated the them good old-fashioned way (because Excel's spreadsheet didn't generate the same value. It seems as if it used some sort of calculation shortcut) The calculation is between "X" and "Y", not "X" and "A", or maybe "B" if I feel like it, or "C" if it bolsters my POV.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!
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https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa-coronavirus/
As of March 06, 2020 at 17:52 GMT, there have been 240 confirmed cases and 14 deaths due to coronavirus COVID-19 in the United States.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-in-us.html
COVID-19: Cases in the United States Reported to CDC*†
Travel-related 36
Person-to-person spread 18
Under Investigation 110
Total cases 164
† CDC is no longer reporting the number of persons under investigation (PUIs) that have been tested, as well as PUIs that have tested negative. Now that states are testing and reporting their own results, CDC’s numbers are not representative of all testing being done nationwide.
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda75
94740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
Johns Hopkins
US 241
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You know how many people are going to die from smoking in America by the end of December this year?
Half a million.
That's hardly a drop in the bucket, and we're doing it to ourselves.
Allegedly, 41,000 of those will be innocent by-standards who didn't do it to themselves and are going to die from 2nd hand exposure.
Total cases of Coronavirus in America after a month is under 200?
Color me unperturbed.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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I felt normal for a few hours yesterday after being sick 8 weeks ago. If they ever come out with a serology test (a blood test for antibodies) for COVID-19, and it's not over $1000 I'd consider getting tested, just to see.
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Quote:
I Lived Through SARS and Reported on Ebola. These Are the Questions We Should Be Asking About Coronavirus.
For concerned civilians and journalists covering the coronavirus, the figures and projections can be overwhelming, frightening or confusing. Here’s what reporter Caroline Chen is focusing on to keep things as accurate and clear as possible.
by Caroline Chen March 5, 3:58 p.m. EST
Thai nurses and doctors check temperatures of travelers coming from Hong Kong at the Bangkok International Airport in April 2003, during the SARS outbreak. Reporter Caroline Chen lived through SARS, and she covered Ebola, Zika and, now, coronavirus. (Paula Bronstein/Getty Images)
Series: Coronavirus
Is the United States Prepared for COVID-19?
ProPublica is a nonprofit newsroom that investigates abuses of power. Sign up to receive our biggest stories as soon as they’re published.
I grew up in Hong Kong and was 13 when SARS swept through the city, infecting about 1,750 people and killing nearly 300. As a teenager, the hardest part was being stuck at home and missing my friends. I only started to pay attention to the daily death toll after my parents decided that’s what would dictate when I could go back to school. But the experience shaped me. I picked up personal hygiene habits, like pressing elevator buttons with my knuckles. And I developed a deep respect for front-line medical workers, many of whom labored around the clock until they, too, succumbed.
That was only my first experience with an outbreak.
In 2014, I was a rookie reporter on the Bloomberg News health desk helping to cover the growing Ebola crisis in West Africa when we got word that the U.S. had its first diagnosed patient. My editor looked down his row of reporters and his eyes fell on me, the one with no familial obligations. “Hey Caroline,” he said, “want to go to Dallas today?” The experience gave me a deeper look into how governments and scientists grapple with a fast-moving, deadly target. I learned about contact tracing as I tagged along with CDC disease detectives. A colleague and I delved deep into how the government’s cumbersome contracting process delayed the development of a possible treatment for Ebola. I later covered Zika, reporting on Florida’s lonely fight against the virus, as Congress gave the state little assistance.
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Every time, I’ve seen the same gaps emerge in the public’s understanding of what’s really happening. On one side, I have epidemiologists and lab directors explaining to me, in excruciating detail, nuanced models and technicalities, like how PCR assays work. On the other side, I see oversimplified headlines and misleading statistics touted by government officials.
Now I’m on ProPublica’s coronavirus reporting team, speaking to dozens of sources every day, from epidemiology experts and worried medical workers to members of the public, who are not sure what to take from the headlines they’re seeing. ProPublica specializes in accountability journalism, and our goal is to find out what’s happening and let the public know of any shortfalls in emergency response.
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Here’s what you need to know:
Testing Is Still Limited
On Tuesday, after days of growing clamor to make more testing available, Vice President Mike Pence announced that the administration was issuing new guidance that “will make it clear that any American can be tested” for COVID-19, the disease caused by the virus, and said that 2,500 kits would be sent out this week, an equivalent of 1.5 million tests.
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Quote:SIX, you insist on thinking of this as a static situation - where the number of smokers stays approximately the same, and you're looking at lifetime risk- when it is instead a rapidly-evolving one when you need to be looking at the risk from this event. You're a smart guy; so adjust your thinking.
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
You know how many people are going to die from smoking in America by the end of December this year?
Half a million.
That's hardly a drop in the bucket, and we're doing it to ourselves.
Allegedly, 41,000 of those will be innocent by-standards who didn't do it to themselves and are going to die from 2nd hand exposure.
Total cases of Coronavirus in America after a month is under 200?
Color me unperturbed.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
In a couple of weeks, the number of [detected] cases might be 5,000. A couple of weeks after that, it might be 50,000. After that, it might be in the hundreds of thousands. Instead of being backward-looking, try a bit of projection.
Now, for you, personally, your risk is low. You're a younger, reasonably healthy man living an isolated life. For me... not so young, not so healthy, in a county with a lot of international travel and contacts. My next-door neighbors? South Korean. Very Xtian. Maybe members of that doomsday cult thats 85% infected in Korea. They HAVE had S Kprean visitors in the past. Who's to say they aren't hosting someone from S Korea right now, someone who flew here to escape the risk? Someone who may have brought the risk with them?
Anyway, at the moment my risk is very low. I would consider being at-risk when there are roughly 1000 detected cases in LA County which might mean 10,000 undetected cases. Whatever precautions I'm taking right now are just "practice" ... something to get me in the habit. A week from now, it might be for real.
At what point would YOU be concerned? when there are 1000 detected cases in your county? When your neighbor gets sick? (BTW, at that point it would be too late.)
Give it some thought.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
I felt normal for a few hours yesterday after being sick 8 weeks ago. If they ever come out with a serology test (a blood test for antibodies) for COVID-19, and it's not over $1000 I'd consider getting tested, just to see.
I'm going to start a Kickstarter for COVID-19 testing kits that will cost $999.99.
I'm going to be a millionaire by next month.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Is that with or without sales tax?
Just kidding!
And, Jack, fwiw, as much excellent work as you've done on your house, I wouldn't get your kit. Just sayin'.
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Used Ontario mass transit, and traveled to Vegas.
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/ontario-reports-covid-19-case-122022546.html
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Italy coronavirus death toll surges
https://www.newsmax.com/world/globaltalk/virus-italy-outbreak/2020/03/
03/id/956792/
Shortly after the contagion first came to light on Feb. 20, the government imposed a quarantine on two areas - one encompassing 10 Lombardy towns southeast of Milan, and another, smaller red zone in the region of Veneto to the east.
Inhabitants are blocked inside the affected towns and police prevent any outsiders from entering. (That's the definition of a cordon sanitaire.)
(Despite instituting precautions like creating no-go zones and closing schools, SARS-COV-2 cases and deaths have continued to spread beyond the initial outbreak area.)
A high concentration of new cases has emerged around the city of Bergamo, northeast of the financial capital Milan, and the head of the national health institute told reporters a new red zone may be imposed there to try to stem the rise.
Italy's health authorities said on Tuesday they may set up a new quarantine red zone to try to contain the coronavirus outbreak in Europe's worst-hit country, after the death toll and the number of cases jumped.
Twenty-seven people died of the highly contagious illness in Italy over the past 24 hours, bringing the total number of dead to 79, the Civil Protection Agency said. The increase in deaths was the largest since the outbreak surfaced 12 days ago in the wealthy northern regions of Lombardy and Veneto.
If new case numbers are still rising, I think it's not under control.
I wonder what Tedros is waiting for ... for this to burn itself out without calling it a pandemic, thereby rescuing those poor bond-holders?
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Some theorize that Italy and Iran have a particularly deadly strain of the virus. First heard this on Chris Martensen Peak Prosperity but don't recall where he got that from. His discussion revolves around the #recovered v the #died, which is prolly easier to measure than #died v #infected, since at the moment don't know the actual infection rate. So possibly Italy and Iran are dealing with something a little different. (Originally I attributed their high apparent death rate to little testing and number fudging.)
Read somewhere else, again don't remember where, that covid-19 represents two different strains, one very infectious with severe symptoms and one a little something with less critical illness. M and S I think they called them. The deadlier strain is spreading at a slower rate because it's more obvious and tends to be controlled earlier but the milder version keeps spreading at a more consistent rate, prolly because it's less obvious.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!
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Yeah, I don't have any solid info on that.
When it comes to Italy, everyone says what DRACONIAN measure China took to deal with the virus - and that western nations couldn't possibly implement them. I'm watching Italy because I'm curious to see if I can stumble on what, if any, measures seem to help.
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https://www.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-03-07-20-intl-
hnk/index.html
9 min ago
BREAKING: More than 300 cases of coronavirus confirmed in the US
CDC says older adults should “stay at home as much as possible” due to coronavirus
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Quote:
A Trump administration official tells CNN that the US Department of Health and Human Services "is in the process of doing targeted outreach to the elderly community and those that have serious underlying health conditions."
The CDC guidance comes as two top infectious disease experts with ties to the federal government have advised people over 60 and those with underlying health problems to strongly consider avoiding activities that involve large crowds, such as traveling by airplane, going to movie theaters or concerts, attending family events, shopping at crowded malls, and going to religious services.
https://www.kctv5.com/coronavirus/new-cdc-guidance-says-older-adults-s
hould-stay-at-home/article_f03ecda8-9c8d-55f9-98db-f21f3bdb3ee2.html
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Is that with or without sales tax?
Just kidding!
And, Jack, fwiw, as much excellent work as you've done on your house, I wouldn't get your kit. Just sayin'.
That's probably a good idea.
They're going to come with used hypodermic needles since my state doesn't give away clean ones for free, so... yanno... AIDS.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:Case case case cluster cluster BOOM!
Cuomo Declares State Of Emergency As 21 More Coronavirus Cases Confirmed In New York...
Across the US, there are more than 300 cases reported (though not yet 'confirmed' by the CDC) and at least half of all states have confirmed cases. On Friday, Hawaii, Kentucky, Oklahoma, Connecticut, Nebraska, Indiana, Minnesota, Pennsylvania and South Carolina all confirmed their first cases of the virus.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!
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https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa-coronavirus/
As of March 07, 2020 at 18:35 GMT, there have been 373 confirmed cases and 17 deaths due to coronavirus COVID-19 in the United States.
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda75
94740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
Total Confirmed
376
U.S. Is Lagging in Coronavirus Tests, and It's Not Even Close
Washington Post|16 minutes ago
If you look only at a list of confirmed novel coronavirus cases ... fewer residents than New Jersey, has tested nearly twice as many people. The U.K., which has far fewer cases, has tested over 20,000. This gap is particularly worrisome given evidence of community spread in a number of different states and a high death count, both of which ...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/us-is-lagging-in-coronavirus-t
ests-and-its-not-even-close/2020/03/07/bfdf5326-607c-11ea-ac50-18701e14e06d_story.html
South Korea has tested 140,000 people for the coronavirus. That could explain why its death rate is just 0.6% — far lower than in China or the US.
Business Insider|2 days ago
Experts have suggested that coronavirus death rates could decrease as more mild cases are confirmed.
https://www.businessinsider.com/south-korea-coronavirus-testing-death-
rate-2020-3
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There's no way I'd get tested or get a vaccine for this thing.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:Italy coronavirus cases jump by 1,247 in a day
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Case case case cluster cluster BOOM!
https://www.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-03-07-20-intl-
hnk/h_6fcd7e82f91b2cdf48b6ae094d210d77
And it's not because they haven't been testing all along.
The China example of SARS-COV-2 having entrenched itself in a geographic area - and what might be necessary to stop it
China
Quote:
lockdown Hubei province
banning factories from opening after the Lunar New Year holiday
travel bans
people forced into isolation
self-quarantine
people are stopped and given random health checks. Restaurants are mostly closed and do takeout. Many people simply have not left their apartments for a month
in China, where no one is allowed in public spaces without surgical masks
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2020/03/06/coronavirus-impact-l
essons-from-china-and-south-korea-for-the-us/#e9eaeea64751
Chinese authorities have allegedly started forcefully taking away people suspected of having coronavirus from their homes... and taken to camps
China’s central government ordered Wuhan to round up all suspected patients and anyone they are thought to have been in close contact with in mass quarantine camps.
https://thenationonlineng.net/coronavirus-china-in-mass-arrest-of-suff
erers/
And it looks like the shutdown involves the entire country,
:format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/66416934/china_trop_2020056.0.png)
which appears to have stopped the spread from satellite areas of infection:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
China total cases 80,652 new cases 100
So when they say the Chinese measures are draconian, I guess that's what they mean. The Chinese had/ have no soft spot for individuals, their goal appears to have been to stop the spread by any means necessary. And unless they're fudging the numbers, it appears to have worked.
But it's an open question if spread of the virus will resume along with Chinese manufacturing, sales, and services.
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This site
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
now says 14% of Active Cases are critical/serious, 6% of Closed cases are fatal.
DP cases have 6 deaths. 245 recovered, 32 serious/critical.
France and Germany surpassed Diamond Princess for 5th and 6th place.
US is in 10th place, with 402 cases and 15 recoveries. 19 deaths.
Canada is 25th place, with 60 cases, 8 recoveries. 0 deaths.
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I guess the questions are 1) what does it take to stop the spread of the virus, 2) is the US doing what it needs to do to stop the spread of the virus, and 3) what will be the effect of a worst-case scenario where SARS-COV-2 spreads maximally?
Originally, WHO and the CDC appear to have been following - at least in rhetoric - the ID, trace, and isolate formula for stopping a contagion. While that might work for STDS and needle-sharing diseases, where contacts are of necessity limited, it doesn't look like it would be appropriate for a highly infectious disease like COVID-19. (I liken it to approaching the measles end of infectiousness in its ability to spread, where simply going through the same airport terminal that someone with measles had passed through before can get you sick.) So I find the basic model to be unhelpful.
The other completely necessary but crippled leg in the approach in the US is the criminally incompetent testing. If your approach needs you to ID cases, then you'd better ID them. And for some reason, the medical system was paralyzed when it came to developing tests. There wasn't an actual rule that forbid anyone from doing that. There was a REQUEST - and it was a longstanding precedent - that if you did, you file an emergency use request within 15 days. Maybe people were waiting on the CDC assuming that it was all going to roll out from there smoothly and quickly. But the CDC testing was faulty and severely limited.
But the US looks OMG bad compared to other countries that test thousands and tens of thousands PER DAY. Our failure needs to be relentlessly investigated. BTW the most recent estimate I found was that the US has tested 2300 - TOTAL. Since this all began.
Finally, I assume the US will eventually have national spread, because of our bungled model, our bungled testing, and the example of Italy.
What's the worst-case scenario? SK has done the most testing of all countries and has come up with a fatality rate of 0.6% - which is still 6x more than the flu. Even that low number would overwhelm the medical system. And a medical system overwhelmed might be a medical system infected, where the personnel themselves are unable to do a normal level of work.
It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.
What Taiwan did right:
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/03/taiwan-reins-spread-coronavirus
-countries-stumble-200307034353325.html
xposted here: http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=63484&p=4
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Quote:people shedding virus in their stool??
Coronavirus lingers in rooms and toilets but disinfectants kill it: Study
New research from Singapore's National Centre for Infectious Diseases and DSO National Laboratories has found that patients with the coronavirus extensively contaminate their bedrooms and bathrooms, underscoring the need to routinely clean high-touch surfaces, basins and toilet bowls.
The virus was however killed by twice-a-day cleaning of surfaces and daily cleaning of floors with a commonly used disinfectant - suggesting that current decontamination measures are sufficient as long as people adhere to them.
The research was published on Wednesday in the Journal of the American Medical Association and comes after cases in China where the pathogen spread extensively through hospitals, infecting dozens of healthcare workers and other patients. This led scientists to believe that, beyond catching the infection through coughing, environmental contamination was an important factor in the disease's transmission, but its extent was unclear.
The Singapore researchers looked at cases of three patients who were held in isolation rooms between late January and early February. They collected samples from their rooms on five days over a two-week period.
The room of one patient was sampled before routine cleaning, while the rooms of the other two patients were sampled after disinfection measures.
The patient whose room was sampled before cleaning had the mildest symptoms of the three, experiencing only a cough.
The other two had moderate symptoms: both had coughing and fever, one experienced shortness of breath and the other was coughing up mucus.
Despite this disparity, the patient whose room was sampled before cleaning contaminated 13 of 15 room sites tested, including a chair, the bed rail, a glass window, the floor and light switches. Three of the five toilet sites were also contaminated, including the sink, door handle and toilet bowl
Quote:
- more evidence that stool can be a route of transmission.
Air samples tested negative, but swabs taken from air exhaust outlets were positive - which suggests that virus-laden droplets may be carried by air flows and deposited on vents.
The two rooms that were tested after cleaning had no positive results.
The results, the authors wrote, "suggests the environment as a potential medium of transmission and supports the need for strict adherence to environmental and hand hygiene."
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/coronavirus-lingers-in-rooms-an
d-toilets-but-disinfectants-kill-it-study
So, hubby and I got into a discussion as what constitutes "airborne" versus "droplet" transmission. When you sneeze, cough, or even talk, small droplets come out of your mouth. If they're large enough they'll fall to the floor, but if they're small enough they can stay suspended in air, slowly evaporating and getting smaller and smaller. At some point, are they too small to be effectively filtered out by N95? The presence of recoverable virus on air vents indicates that the droplets were "floating" and being carried on air currents, but their impaction (or at least the impaction of some of them) indicates enough mass/momentum to overcome airstream changes.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!
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You're not going to find a mask that's 100%, especially if you're just putting on a small one like that. There's a reason why they have biohazard suits and they aren't cheap.
If you're considering going out in public with a mask on, at least splurge a few bucks and go with a mold and lead removal mask with the proper more expensive cartridges on it.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/3M-Reusable-Sanding-Valved-Safety-Mask/100002
7149
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:But, we knew all that..
Fauci: Coronavirus Spread In America 'Not Encouraging'; Says Americans Should Avoid Large Gatherings, Especially If Vulnerable
Quote:
The director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, Dr. Anthony Fauci, recommended on Sunday that elderly and vulnerable Americans avoid travel and large crowds as coronavirus gains a foothold in the United States.
In an interview with NBC's "Meet the Press," Fauci emphasized that the elderly and people with "underlying conditions" are "overwhelmingly" more likely to be hit worse by coronavirus, according to NBC News.
"If you are an elderly person with an underlying condition, if you get infected, the risk of getting into trouble is considerable. So it's our responsibility to protect the vulnerable," he said, adding "When I say protect, I mean right now. Not wait until things get worse. Say no large crowds, no long trips. And above all, don't get on a cruise ship."
Yes, but do you know what they're doing in S Korea? You can just ask for a test. Yep, don't need a doctor's order. You drive up, take your own sample in your own car (so no exposure to anyone) and get the results in a few hours. You don't have to pay anyone.
That's why S Korea shows a very low "case fatality rate" ... lots and lots (and lots and lots) of testing, which reveals the true extent of infection.
right now, according to Chris Martensen, people are having problems getting tested, despite the test kits having been made available last week (they said) which should be able to handle roughly 450,000 patients. According to the video, a guy working at a big box home improvement retailer in Washington state developed a dry hacking cough, the retailer sent him to get tested for covid19 but the DOCTOR only tested him for strep and flu- BOTH TESTS NEGATIVE- and wrote a scrip for fever reducer, giving him a 3-day pass from work. DOCTOR told patient he could only be tested if he was hospitalized.
Also, according to Martensen, Washington state is in dire need of masks for their medical personnel. They are scavening masks from contractors, vet and dental offices etc, and making their staff go in naked to treat suspect cases. Totally unprepared.
I have both "procedure" masks and a few N95 respirators, which I got to try to control my allergies when handling compost but which helped when dealing with suspect lead paint. We'll be using the "procedure" masks until the risk rises substantially (eg case detected in our or neighboring city) at that point we'll switch to N95s.
Also
Quote:and
Washington State Warns Mail-In Ballot Voters Not To Lick Envelopes
Quote:
Fed quarantines U.S. dollars repatriated from Asia on coronavirus caution
Maybe you should handle all of those packages from Amazon carefully!
And finally ...
Quote:There are literally dozens of articles about coronavirus' effect on the supply chain.
Coronavirus Supply Chain Effects: What to Expect
Did you know that the USA no longer makes ANY penicillin, at all? I've been thumping on the idea of self-sufficient economies for YEARS, literally, because of the effect of a natural or manmade disaster hitting a single point of failure.
Well, we have built our financial structure on very long, very fragile supply chains. If you need 30,000 parts to make a car, and 10,000 of them are hung up in China, how far do you think you're going to get? If you need masks but they're all made in China ... what then? What about if all of your pharmaceuticals are made in India, but half of the starting materials are made in China?
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!
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https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa-coronavirus/
As of March 08, 2020 at 16:55 GMT, there have been 464 confirmed cases and 19 deaths due to coronavirus COVID-19 in the United States.
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda75
94740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
Total Confirmed
466
Quote:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa-coronavirus/
As of March 07, 2020
373
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#
376
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for Signy and myself
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-03-07/coronavirus-cases-
keep-rising-la-california-what-you-need-to-know
Coronavirus cases keep rising in Los Angeles, across California: Here is what you need to know
The latest: Counties continued to report more cases Friday. Some areas are seeing spread through community contact, such as Santa Clara, San Francisco and Solano. Here are the numbers as of Friday: Seven cases have been tied to people who were once on a cruise ship where there was a coronavirus outbreak. Stanford University is going to online classes after a faculty member tested positive.
Los Angeles
The latest: L.A. County confirmed two additional cases of the new coronavirus Friday, bringing the total to 13. The new cases still don’t point to community spread in Los Angeles County, L.A. County Department of Public Health Director Barbara Ferrer said. She estimated that 50 people in the county have been tested for COVID-19 and emphasized that more tests are coming back negative than positive. The L.A. Marathon is still scheduled for Sunday.
• 8 cases involve a group of travelers who visited northern Italy, where coronavirus has cause widespread outbreaks.
• 2 are connected to close contact to a coronavirus patient.
• 2 are Los Angeles International Airport workers.
• 1 is a patient who lived in Wuhan, China.
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https://ca.news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-italy-sees-largest-daily-rise-de
aths-confirmed-181200199.html
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-canada-cases-184926838.html
I may have forgotten to mention there are no active cases remaining in WI, the only one recovered.
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This site
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
now says 14% of Active Cases are critical/serious, 6% of Closed cases are fatal.
DP cases have 7 deaths (back up to 7, but # of cases and serious/critical ar unchanged from yesterday - will this 7th become undead as well?). 245 recovered, 32 serious/critical.
Spain poised to surpass Diamond Princess for 7th place.
US is in 10th place, with 484 cases and 15 recoveries. 19 deaths.
Canada is tied for 24th place, with 64 cases, 8 recoveries. 0 deaths.
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edited from the original
Using hand sanitizer
It works. Use it often. Make sure it’s alcohol-based. at least 60% There are some “natural” products designed to be less drying to your hands. These do not work.
Washing hands
This is always important, but especially now. Wash your hands for 20 seconds, regularly. Note that soap works ideally in combination with scrubbing and heat, but cold water works far better than nothing. You do not need antibacterial soap; the coronavirus is a virus, not a bacterium. Antibacterial soap needs 6 minutes to do its job anyway. Nobody lets it sit on their hands for that long. In addition, the active ingredient has been liked to heart failure. imo nobody needs antibacterial soap - ever.
Cleaning hand towels
Wash them often, too. Or use paper towels.
Shaking hands
don't
Touching your face
Avoiding touching your face is a nice idea and would be very effective, but no one is going to stop touching their face. Use medical masks when out and about to remind yourself.
Using bathrooms
The dirtiest things you'll touch are the handles - toilet handles, faucet handles, paper towel dispenser handles, and door handles. I wash the paper towel dispenser handles when I wash my hands, and use paper towels to touch everything else afterwards. If the toilet had a lid, put the lid down before you flush. It'll avoid letting the flushing aerosol get all over the room.
Disinfecting common surfaces
The crux of all the focus on hand-washing is that you’re unlikely to get the virus from someone coughing or sneezing directly into your face. You are much more likely to catch the virus by touching something that someone else touched after coughing into their hand. This can partly be prevented by disinfecting surfaces. Not touching your face when you're out and about (use a mask) getting hands contaminated, then washing or sanitizing hands immediately on getting home works just as well, if you decontaminate things you routinely touch as well like your wallet and phone.
The most commonly touched surfaces in homes and offices, especially shared spaces, are priority. Countertops, remote controls, and refrigerator handles should be disinfected regularly. That said, it’s very possible to become compulsive about this in ways that have their own risks. Any given surface is very unlikely to harbor a dangerous virus, so it’s possible to overdo this and waste a lot of time, resources, and concern. But if you’re the sort to typically only clean things that look visibly dirty, do consider the invisible.
Cleaning phones
This one warrants its own special note because phone screens may be the surface we touch the most. Other, similar coronaviruses are known to live on glass for up to four days. If you’ve been touching your phone with viral hands, then you do a beautiful job washing those hands, and then you touch your phone again, you may have just recontaminated yourself. I’m not suggesting constantly cleaning your phone.
Wearing masks
Use procedure masks when out and about to remind yourself not to touch your face; or if you're ill.
Stockpiling prescription medications
Most U.S. prescription medications are made in China, whose own outbreak has raised concerns about medication supply chains. As of now, supplies have not been disrupted, and China is reporting declines in the spread of the virus. As with food, though, anyone who has a vital prescription and lives in a place where access would be affected by the single shutdown of a local pharmacy or a public-transit system, for example, should always have a small supply for emergencies. Health-care providers should help ensu
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The upshot - Signy's procedure - wear a procedure mask when out and about to remind you to not touch your face. Remove your mask then IMMEDIATELY sanitize or wash your hands when you get home. That way, you won't touch your face with potentially infectious hands.
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/08/health/coronavirus-touching-your-fa
ce-trnd/index.html
One big coronavirus challenge is how to stop touching your face
It took a coronavirus outbreak to remind us that we touch our faces way too many times. And cutting down on that will help stop the spread of the virus, health officials say.
In 2015, a Sydney university observed medical students on video and recorded how many times they touched their faces. Each of the 26 future doctors under observation touched their faces an average 23 times per hour.
Nearly half of those times -- 44% -- involved contact with their eyes, nose or mouth.
Not touching your face is harder than it sounds
As we fight the coronavirus outbreak, which has killed 19 people in the US and more than 3,500 worldwide, officials are emphasizing all it takes is one touch for microbes on your fingers to slip into your body through your nostril, eyes or mouth.
"Viruses that affect the respiratory system enter the body through mucosal membranes which are found in the nose, oral cavity and lips. With poor hand hygiene, it's easy to acquire a viral infection this way," says Dr. Dawn Mueni Becker, an infectious disease specialist in Gainesville, Florida.
But we've been touching our faces all our lives, and stopping that habit is easier said than done.
On Friday, a video widely shared on social media showed a California health official touching her face during a news conference advising people not to do that as the coronavirus outbreak spreads.
"Start working on not touching your face, because one main way viruses spread is when you touch your own mouth, nose or eyes," she says. Then she licks her finger to flip to the next page of her remarks -- seemingly unaware she was not following her own advice.
Even one notorious self-proclaimed germaphobe can't help himself. "I haven't touched my face in weeks -- in weeks. I miss it," President Donald Trump said jokingly last week. He was photographed touching his face Monday.
Touching your face is at times tied to stress
Like most behaviors, constant face touching starts at a young age and becomes a habit over time. People touch their face for various reasons. One 2014 federal government study suggested it helps reduce stress and discomfort. "Spontaneous facial self-touch gestures are performed manifold every day by every human being, primarily in stressful situations," the study says. "These movements are not usually designed to communicate and are frequently accomplished with little or no awareness."
Touching your face is so common, there's a website that uses your webcam to notify you when you touch your face and keeps track of how many times you do it.
There are safe ways to touch your face
If you can't stop yourself, it's not the end of the world, Becker says. There are ways to lower your chances of infections from face touching. "Being conscious or aware of this habit is helpful when it comes to avoiding touching the face," Becker says. "Identifying triggers such as runny nose or urge to sneeze is important. In this case, having tissue close by is helpful -- it's better to use that to touch your face than bare hands."
The federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommends washing your hands with soap and water for at least 20 seconds. If water is not available, you can use an alcohol-based hand sanitizer that contains at least 60% alcohol.
Soap and water are especially preferred if hands are visibly dirty, the CDC says, and especially after using the bathroom, blowing your
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lol
If that's what living is going to be like in the future just kill me now.
Never going to do any of that.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
OMG!!! I have to wash my hands!!!!
fixed it for you.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!
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That's OK. No one's telling you to, or even asking you to, Jack.
But some people who are not you might be interested.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
OMG!!! I have to wash my hands!!!!
fixed it for you.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!
lol no.
That was 4 pages on ANSI paper in 12pt font of New Rules you're going to have to live by if you don't want cooties.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Gas prices by me were under $2 last night for the first time in over two years.
COVID is awesome.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa-coronavirus/
As of March 09, 2020
566
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda75
94740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
565
Quote:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa-coronavirus/
As of March 08, 2020
464
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#
466
Quote:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa-coronavirus/
As of March 07, 2020
373
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#
376
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A VERY good reason not to attend church!
Quote:
DC Priest Who Shook 500 Hands At Communion Has Coronavirus
DC priest who shook the hands of 500 worshippers during communion has announced he’s contracted coronavirus.
“BREAKING: A D.C. priest has Coronavirus. He offered communion and shook hands with more than 500 worshippers last week and on February 24th,” tweeted ABC7’s Sam Sweeney.
“All worshippers who visited the Christ Church in Georgetown must self-quarantine. Church is cancelled for the first time since the 1800’s.”
The hand shaking took place despite many other Catholic churches changing their worshipping practices in an effort to stop the spread of the virus.
Well, this church, near DC, is not a poor black church for peons.
It looks like the kind of church that many DC staffers and upper-ups might attend. If they weren't paying attention to coronavirus (and they probaby weren't, seeing as they shook hands with someone who shook hands with 500 of their closest friends) they sure are now!
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!
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Another point I heard .... the virus is not "adapted" to humans. That is, a virus that is adapted to its host doesn't cause extreme symptoms. It doesn't cause it's host's cells to explode because that actually slows down the virus-making process. There is a possibility that the virus, which mutates every two days, will mutate itself into a less-virulent form, kind of like the Mexican swine flu which caused such a panic but then ... disappeared.
https://www.rt.com/news/482612-coronavirus-specialists-odds-catching-s
urviving/
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!
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That'll be nice.
I'm probably more bored hearing about this than I was the Russiagate hoax conspiracy theory.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Hey Signy
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-03-09/l-a-county-up-to-1
6-coronavirus-cases-with-1-of-unknown-origin-heres-the-latest
L.A. County has first coronavirus case from community spread. Here’s the latest
By Colleen ShalbyStaff Writer
March 9, 2020
1:23 PM
Los Angeles County announced its first coronavirus case of community spread, with the total number of cases rising by two to a total of 16.
L.A. County Public Health Department Director Dr. Barbara Ferrer said that one of the two new cases is that of an individual who had a known travel history to Japan. The source of exposure of the second individual is currently unknown.
“This is our first case of community transmission in L.A. County and we will continue to see more cases of COVID-19,” Ferrer said. “We continue to urge everyone to do their part: Stay home if you are sick and keep your children home if they are sick; plan for the possibility of school and business closures.”
Both individuals are in isolation, and all close contacts are or will be quarantined for 14 days.
Ferrer said that anyone who has spent 10 minutes with an individual or came within 6 feet would be considered a close contact. Ferrer said that there has been a total of 16 confirmed cases of COVID-19 in L.A. County.
One individual has fully recovered, and the remaining 15 are isolated. Ferrer did not identify the specific location of any individual, but said that if a known public exposure occurs, residents would learn more information.
Ferrer estimated that 80 to 100 individuals have been tested for the virus at the county’s public health lab, but noted that the lab’s testing capacity is limited.
“We cannot, in L.A. County, test 1,000 people in a day,” she said. Ferrer recommended social distancing, and that individuals who are sick stay home in order to protect others who may be most vulnerable to the virus.
“We recognize that the most important thing we can do right now is to stay home when we’re sick – no matter how mild our symptoms are.” No school closure has been recommended in the county -– a decision she said that would be based on exposure.
Here is the latest breakdown of COVID-19 cases
• 8 involve a group of travelers who visited northern Italy, where the coronavirus has been widespread.
• 2 are connected to close contact to a coronavirus patient.
• 2 are Los Angeles International Airport workers.
• 1 is a person who traveled from Japan.
• 1 lived in Wuhan, China.
• 1 came from from a conference in Washington state.
• 1 case is of unknown origin.
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Coronavirus Can Stay In Air For 30 Minutes, Travel Twice 'Safe Distance' According To Study
https://www.zerohedge.com/health/coronavirus-can-stay-air-30-minutes-t
ravel-twice-safe-distance-according-study
Aerosolized coronavirus can hang in the air for at least 30 minutes and travel up to 14 feet - approximately twice the "safe distance" recommended by health officials, according to SCMP.
The study, conducted by a team of Chinese government epidemiologists from Hunan province, also found that the virus can survive for days on a surface where respiratory droplets land.
The length of time it lasts on the surface depends on factors such as temperature and the type of surface, for example at around 37C (98F), it can survive for two to three days on glass, fabric, metal, plastic or paper.
These findings, from a group of official researchers from Hunan province investigating a cluster case, challenge the advice from health authorities around the world that people should remain apart at a “safe distance” of one to two metres (three to six and a half feet). -SCMP
The researchers warned that the virus could survive over five days in human feces or bodily fluids, and that it could remain floating in the air after a carrier had left a public bus. 
"It can be confirmed that in a closed environment with air-conditioning, the transmission distance of the new coronavirus will exceed the commonly recognised safe distance," the researchers wrote in their paper, published in peer-reviewed journal, Practical Preventive Medicine.
"Our advice is to wear a face mask all the way [through the bus ride]," the researchers recommended.
They said the study proves the importance of washing hands and wearing face masks in public places because the virus can linger in the air attached to fine droplet particles.
...
Their work was based on a local outbreak case on January 22 during the peak Lunar New Year travel season. A passenger, known as “A”, boarded a fully booked long-distance coach and settled down on the second row from the back.
The passenger already felt sick at that point but it was before China had declared the coronavirus outbreak a national crisis, so “A” did not wear a mask, nor did most of the other passengers or the driver on the 48-seat bus. -SCMP
Because China requires closed circuit television cameras to record all long-distance us rides, researchers were able to reconstruct the spread of the virus on the bus, which had no open windows.
Lead author Hu Shixiong said that the camera footage revealed patient "A" did not interact with anyone throughout the four-hour ride, yet the virus infected seven other passengers by the time the bus stopped at the next city. Infected passengers included not only those sitting relatively close to "patient zero," but people six rows away - or 4.5 meters (14.76 feet).
All seven tested positive, including one passenger who displayed no symptoms. Then, 30 minutes later, another group of passengers got on the bus - one of whom was sitting in the front seat when they also became infected. Patient "A" meanwhile, got on another minibus and infected two other passengers.
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HA!
New York Is Producing Its Own Hand Sanitizer To Combat Price Gouging
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!
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Looking at how the national numbers are going up, I'd say that there's a rate-limiting step in the reporting. In other words, there's something that can go only so fast, and no faster, and so the numbers are only going up so fast.
I'd say that rate-limiting step is testing, and that there are clusters (we're beyond cases) that are saturating out the testing capacity of their respective areas. I think that ACTUAL cases are going up far faster.
There's the Chinese study that indicates fairly robust aerosol transmission.
And then there's the first case of community spread in LA County. Considering how mobile we all are, I'm not sure if neighborhood has much meaning.
Given that ... I'll be thinking about my approach to shopping. It's not yet time to hunker down, but I need to think about where I'll draw the line to upping my precautions, and where I'll draw the line to isolating myself.
This requires some thinking.
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Quote:Is LA having any discussion about rampant homelessness?
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Looking at how the national numbers are going up, I'd say that there's a rate-limiting step in the reporting. In other words, there's something that can go only so fast, and no faster, and so the numbers are only going up so fast.
I'd say that rate-limiting step is testing, and that there are clusters (we're beyond cases) that are saturating out the testing capacity of their respective areas. I think that ACTUAL cases are going up far faster.
There's the Chinese study that indicates fairly robust aerosol transmission.
And then there's the first case of community spread in LA County. Considering how mobile we all are, I'm not sure if neighborhood has much meaning.
Given that ... I'll be thinking about my approach to shopping. It's not yet time to hunker down, but I need to think about where I'll draw the line to upping my precautions, and where I'll draw the line to isolating myself.
This requires some thinking.
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Quote:The buss transmission could be from grabbing the headrests/handbars while entering/exiting, and cornering while moving. That would explain a lot of that diagram.
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Coronavirus Can Stay In Air For 30 Minutes, Travel Twice 'Safe Distance' According To Study
https://www.zerohedge.com/health/coronavirus-can-stay-air-30-minutes-t
ravel-twice-safe-distance-according-study
Aerosolized coronavirus can hang in the air for at least 30 minutes and travel up to 14 feet - approximately twice the "safe distance" recommended by health officials, according to SCMP.
The study, conducted by a team of Chinese government epidemiologists from Hunan province, also found that the virus can survive for days on a surface where respiratory droplets land.
The length of time it lasts on the surface depends on factors such as temperature and the type of surface, for example at around 37C (98F), it can survive for two to three days on glass, fabric, metal, plastic or paper.
These findings, from a group of official researchers from Hunan province investigating a cluster case, challenge the advice from health authorities around the world that people should remain apart at a “safe distance” of one to two metres (three to six and a half feet). -SCMP
The researchers warned that the virus could survive over five days in human feces or bodily fluids, and that it could remain floating in the air after a carrier had left a public bus.
"It can be confirmed that in a closed environment with air-conditioning, the transmission distance of the new coronavirus will exceed the commonly recognised safe distance," the researchers wrote in their paper, published in peer-reviewed journal, Practical Preventive Medicine.
"Our advice is to wear a face mask all the way [through the bus ride]," the researchers recommended.
They said the study proves the importance of washing hands and wearing face masks in public places because the virus can linger in the air attached to fine droplet particles.
...
Their work was based on a local outbreak case on January 22 during the peak Lunar New Year travel season. A passenger, known as “A”, boarded a fully booked long-distance coach and settled down on the second row from the back.
The passenger already felt sick at that point but it was before China had declared the coronavirus outbreak a national crisis, so “A” did not wear a mask, nor did most of the other passengers or the driver on the 48-seat bus. -SCMP
Because China requires closed circuit television cameras to record all long-distance us rides, researchers were able to reconstruct the spread of the virus on the bus, which had no open windows.
Lead author Hu Shixiong said that the camera footage revealed patient "A" did not interact with anyone throughout the four-hour ride, yet the virus infected seven other passengers by the time the bus stopped at the next city. Infected passengers included not only those sitting relatively close to "patient zero," but people six rows away - or 4.5 meters (14.76 feet).
All seven tested positive, including one passenger who displayed no symptoms. Then, 30 minutes later, another group of passengers got on the bus - one of whom was sitting in the front seat when they also became infected. Patient "A" meanwhile, got on another minibus and infected two other passengers.
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