Deep state. MSM. Trump ...
POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Friday, March 14, 2025 17:04
VIEWED: 33741
PAGE 3 of 4
Quote:That's funny, because even Joss Whedon said that The Alliance was based on the US government!
The Deep State is Borgoroth, Sauron, The Slayer, yes, even The Alliance.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:That's funny, because even Joss Whedon said that The Alliance was based on the US government!
The Deep State is Borgoroth, Sauron, The Slayer, yes, even The Alliance.
That's perfect! The Alliance were a faceless menace just off screen, only referenced when the plot needed nudging just like the < echo > DEEP STATE < / echo > Essential for manipulation, er, I mean story telling 101. And they don't have to be paid any royalties! Wonder what the actor's guild has to say about that?
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Deep state my muscular buttox.
T 
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I know GEEBERS likes to poke fun at the idea that super rich people use their money to run the people who run the country. But I noticed that - AS USUAL - he has no information to bring to the table to back up his silliness. He likes to reference FICTION to do that !
Well, GEEBERS has ALWAYS had problems with the concept of evidence. And reality. And honesty.
So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
I know GEEBERS likes to poke fun at the idea that super rich people use their money to run the people who run the country. But I noticed that - AS USUAL - he has no information to bring to the table to back up his silliness. He likes to reference FICTION !
Well, GEEBERS has ALWAYS had problems with the concept of evidence. And reality. And honesty.
Hey kiki your lawyer called. After looking at all the evidence she wants to represent me. So sad...
T
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It seems that THUGR and GSTRING are curiously out of step ...
Quote:MORE AT
Public Troubled by ‘Deep State’
Monday, March 19, 2018
Bi-partisan concern that government is tracking U.S. citizens
West Long Branch, NJ – A majority of the American public believe that the U.S. government engages in widespread monitoring of its own citizens and worry that the U.S. government could be invading their own privacy. The Monmouth University Poll also finds a large bipartisan majority who feel that national policy is being manipulated or directed by a “Deep State” of unelected government officials. Americans of color on the center and left and NRA members on the right are among those most worried about the reach of government prying into average citizens’ lives.
Just over half of the public is either very worried (23%) or somewhat worried (30%) about the U.S. government monitoring their activities and invading their privacy. There are no significant partisan differences – 57% of independents, 51% of Republicans, and 50% of Democrats are at least somewhat worried the federal government is monitoring their activities. Another 24% of the American public are not too worried and 22% are not at all worried.
Fully 8-in-10 believe that the U.S. government currently monitors or spies on the activities of American citizens, including a majority (53%) who say this activity is widespread and another 29% who say such monitoring happens but is not widespread. Just 14% say this monitoring does not happen at all. There are no substantial partisan differences in these results.
“This is a worrisome finding. The strength of our government relies on public faith in protecting our freedoms, which is not particularly robust. And it’s not a Democratic or Republican issue. These concerns span the political spectrum,” said Patrick Murray, director of the independent Monmouth University Polling Institute.
https://www.monmouth.edu/polling-institute/reports/monmouthpoll_us_031
918/
ORIGINALLY SOURCED FROM https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-03-19/74-americans-believe-deep-st
ate-running-country
(I do this for THUGR, who is too stupid or too lazy to click on embedded links...)
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Well, GEEBERS has ALWAYS had problems with the concept of evidence. And reality. And honesty.
Speaking of honesty, reality, evidence and my problems... I am having this problem getting you to answer a very simple question: do you know what evidence Mueller has? Yes/No?
So why do you and JSF (and the rest of the Trump boot lickers association) say "still no evidence." Isn't that a dishonest, unreal statement given your lack of knowledge?
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Quote:I'm just counting up how many times you misrepresent my post.
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Speaking of honesty, reality, evidence and my problems... I am having this problem getting you to answer a very simple question: do you know what evidence Mueller has? Yes/No?
So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?
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So tell me GEEBERS how do you know all of this?
Quote:Because not only do you pretend to know what Mueller knows, you pretend to know what other people think, and what they do, and what will happen in the future!
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
I have no idea what Mueller knows and I don't presume to know what Mueller knows since November 9th of 2016.
The endless fantasy brain that lives inside SIGNYM's skull. Making stuff up 24 hours a day ... that was the voices in your head feeding your hatred ... Suuuuure you did ... That slow drip drip is Mueller taking his time ... he slept with her, we all know it ... With his level of paranoia I wouldn't be surprised, OR he thinks his base is so stupid that they will believe that, OR both ... it feels so right that you have joined the Fox & Friends team ... I'll wait because I know it's going to just get better ... (Nobody from Team Trump?) Not yet - but - don't you see the reason for that? ... I love how Trump idiots can't even guess at the future of this ... (Mueller's) like a zen gardner ... Don Jr. - make sure you chant "no collusion" when they crack him like an egg ... how many Trump True Believers think there's no collusion because Mueller didn't release his findings within a week of being assigned. They don't seem to understand ...
"Could Donald J. Trump get a Top Secret background clearance?" Hell no. His financial records would be scanned with a fine tooth comb, so that for one would exclude him. ... There is a mountain of there there ... There are ways to find out what a legal body like Mueller's may be up to/is up to without it necessarily coming from someone inside. ...
So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?
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Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
I know GEEBERS likes to poke fun at the idea that super rich people use their money to run the people who run the country. But I noticed that - AS USUAL - he has no information to bring to the table to back up his silliness. He likes to reference FICTION !
Well, GEEBERS has ALWAYS had problems with the concept of evidence. And reality. And honesty.
Hey kiki your lawyer called. After looking at all the evidence she wants to represent me. So sad...
T
Testing...
Crap. Putting an italics end tag in my signature doesn't fix T's broken posts.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:really! let's see ....
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Testing...
Crap. Putting an italics end tag in my signature doesn't fix T's broken posts.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
H
So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?
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testing ...
So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?
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It works in the sig line for the next post down.
So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?
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Misrepresentation......that's going around these days. That aside, CC does pose a valid question.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:Quote:I'm just counting up how many times you misrepresent my post.
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Speaking of honesty, reality, evidence and my problems... I am having this problem getting you to answer a very simple question: do you know what evidence Mueller has? Yes/No?
So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?
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Meeee!? Naaawwww! I'm really not that bright, but thanks for thinking it.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
What I'm trying to understand is who exactly is the Deep State that these guys are so obsessed about. I want them to explain just who the players are; and what their agenda is.
Hey SGG: I think you know the answer.
The Deep State is Borgoroth, Sauron, The Slayer, yes, even The Alliance. They're the big bad that lurk in the shadows that can't be seen, as nasty to pin down as an egg shell in your bowl of cracked eggs. The shape shifters that can be shaped to fill any logic or plausibility gap, a writer's best friend, an enemy of the Truth. Just look at the sludge you have been given as an explanation. Sift through that slurry and you'll only find fool's gold my friend.
But I think you knew that!
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SHINY, I did respond to your post but it's on p 4.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
It works in the sig line for the next post down.
So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?
Yeah. I don't know why I thought that might work. You'd be putting the closed italics before his open italics. I'm guessing that he manually adds that to his posts, or it's part of his signature along with the font color. He has the closed font color that I had to bitch about for a month before he fixed it. Let's see if he ever gets around to fixing the italics now.
Fucking rude.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
So tell me GEEBERS how do you know all of this?Quote:Because not only do you pretend to know what Mueller knows, you pretend to know what other people think, and what they do, and what will happen in the future!
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
I have no idea what Mueller knows and I don't presume to know what Mueller knows since November 9th of 2016.
The endless fantasy brain that lives inside SIGNYM's skull. Making stuff up 24 hours a day ... that was the voices in your head feeding your hatred ... Suuuuure you did ... That slow drip drip is Mueller taking his time ... he slept with her, we all know it ... With his level of paranoia I wouldn't be surprised, OR he thinks his base is so stupid that they will believe that, OR both ... it feels so right that you have joined the Fox & Friends team ... I'll wait because I know it's going to just get better ... (Nobody from Team Trump?) Not yet - but - don't you see the reason for that? ... I love how Trump idiots can't even guess at the future of this ... (Mueller's) like a zen gardner ... Don Jr. - make sure you chant "no collusion" when they crack him like an egg ... how many Trump True Believers think there's no collusion because Mueller didn't release his findings within a week of being assigned. They don't seem to understand ...
"Could Donald J. Trump get a Top Secret background clearance?" Hell no. His financial records would be scanned with a fine tooth comb, so that for one would exclude him. ... There is a mountain of there there ... There are ways to find out what a legal body like Mueller's may be up to/is up to without it necessarily coming from someone inside. ...
Thanks for the quotes - I have to admit all of them are quite good, definitely worth a second reading.
I couldn't help but notice that not once did I suggest I KNOW WHAT MUELLER KNOWS in terms of evidence. In fact, it's like you just grabbed random quotes of mine - sloppy really. In the end it's actually evidence backing up my claim, so thanks for proving my point.
How about you KIKI ... do you know what Mueller knows?
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:Quote:I'm just counting up how many times you misrepresent my post.
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Speaking of honesty, reality, evidence and my problems... I am having this problem getting you to answer a very simple question: do you know what evidence Mueller has? Yes/No?
Kiki deflecting from my question (one I have asked you for weeks, maybe even months, without answer) again and somewhat desperately.
But I'll indulge you because I know it will only show what a louse you are.
Here's your "misrepresented" post:
KIKI: "I know GEEBERS likes to poke fun at the idea that super rich people use their money to run the people who run the country."
Me: Sorry toots, have known about the ultra wealthy trying to buy their politics for ages, thought it was old news around here. Until you can bring EVIDENCE though, of specific individuals and/or groups of them working together in an organized cabal with specific political strategies then you're just blowing smoke to cover for something else. As I have corrected SIGNYM on many occasions, guessing isn't evidence. Neither is making 10,000 word pronouncements or copying someone else's what-aboutisms.
I poke fun because I find the attempts from people like you to use a form of the "deus ex machina" writing kludge to be laughably obvious. You either don't realize it or don't care - either way it's just another fiction as deflection at best.
KIKI: But I noticed that - AS USUAL - he has no information to bring to the table to back up his silliness. He likes to reference FICTION to do that!
Me: You should read my posts instead of grabbing half sentence quotes - mountains of information.
KIKI: "Well, GEEBERS has ALWAYS had problems with the concept of evidence. And reality. And honesty."
Me: So I addressed evidence, reality and honesty -check
Your turn: Do you know what Mueller knows?
You going to dodge again, or be honest?
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Yes, I saw Siggy....no worries. Now, I'll need a little time to respond.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SHINY, I did respond to your post but it's on p 4.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876
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I think you know the answer to that....no one knows. I would not ever play Poker with that man; he keeps EVERYTHING close to the vest. No tells, that I can see.
Trouble is everyone and their mother is trying to figure out what he knows; and we hear about it on a daily basis, much to my chagrin because there's so much news that needs to have a spotlight. Anyway, we could speculate like the rest, but it will get us nowhere.
One thing is certain, people in the White House are getting nervous. So much so that somewhat irrational, at least that's what Trump and company want us thinking, behavior is the thought of the day. Now that speaks volumes. Rather peculiar behavior for someone who claims innocence. Still though, we can't jump the gun. Let Mueller and company run it's course because passing judgment at this point is premature.
Shakespeare spoke of this thusly:
Quote:
"Will all great Neptune's ocean wash this blood clean from my hand?
No, this my hand will rather
The multitudinous seas incarnadine, making the green one red"
-Hearing a knocking at his palace gate, Macbeth fears that he can never wash away the evidence of his guilt.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
A bit of a stretch, I know, but I thought I would end this response with class.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:Quote:I'm just counting up how many times you misrepresent my post.
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Speaking of honesty, reality, evidence and my problems... I am having this problem getting you to answer a very simple question: do you know what evidence Mueller has? Yes/No?
Kiki deflecting from my question (one I have asked you for weeks, maybe even months, without answer) again and somewhat desperately.
But I'll indulge you because I know it will only show what a louse you are.
Here's your "misrepresented" post:
KIKI: "I know GEEBERS likes to poke fun at the idea that super rich people use their money to run the people who run the country."
Me: Sorry toots, have known about the ultra wealthy trying to buy their politics for ages, thought it was old news around here. Until you can bring EVIDENCE though, of specific individuals and/or groups of them working together in an organized cabal with specific political strategies then you're just blowing smoke to cover for something else. As I have corrected SIGNYM on many occasions, guessing isn't evidence. Neither is making 10,000 word pronouncements or copying someone else's what-aboutisms.
I poke fun because I find the attempts from people like you to use a form of the "deus ex machina" writing kludge to be laughably obvious. You either don't realize it or don't care - either way it's just another fiction as deflection at best.
KIKI: But I noticed that - AS USUAL - he has no information to bring to the table to back up his silliness. He likes to reference FICTION to do that!
Me: You should read my posts instead of grabbing half sentence quotes - mountains of information.
KIKI: "Well, GEEBERS has ALWAYS had problems with the concept of evidence. And reality. And honesty."
Me: So I addressed evidence, reality and honesty -check
Your turn: Do you know what Mueller knows?
You going to dodge again, or be honest?
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I got a giggle out of it.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:That's funny, because even Joss Whedon said that The Alliance was based on the US government!
The Deep State is Borgoroth, Sauron, The Slayer, yes, even The Alliance.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876
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Quote:Mueller is working at the slow speed set by the Federal Courts and Federal elections. If Mueller finishes too quickly and his evidence gathering isn't perfect, his entire investigation would have been pointless because either the GOP Congress will threw his report in the trash or the crooks will be reelected. But I don't have to be slow as Mueller to decide if Trump was colluding with Putin. One data point is enough for me:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
One thing is certain, people in the White House are getting nervous. So much so that somewhat irrational, at least that's what Trump and company want us thinking, behavior is the thought of the day. Now that speaks volumes. Rather peculiar behavior for someone who claims innocence. Still though, we can't jump the gun. Let Mueller and company run it's course because passing judgment at this point is premature.
Trump did not follow specific warnings from his national security advisers Tuesday when he congratulated Russian President Vladimir Putin on his reelection — including a section in his briefing materials in all-capital letters stating “DO NOT CONGRATULATE,” according to officials familiar with the call…..It was not clear whether Trump read the notes, administration officials said. Trump, who initiated the call, opened it with the congratulations for Putin, one person familiar with the conversation said.
I’m sure we’re all glad to know that it’s henceforth official US policy to congratulate autocrats for winning rigged elections. That’s making America great again.
Quote of the Day: “Nice Work, Vlad”
www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/03/quote-of-the-day-nice-work-vlad/
I suppose most Republicans would need a recorded Trump/Putin phone call about money transfers between Trump/Putin secret bank accounts before they would change their minds about Trump. Even that might not make any difference to their love of him. Trump has magnanimously donated his $400,000 salary to charity, but he does deserve Russian billions for his hard work. www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/trumpometer/promise/1341/tak
e-no-salary/
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Herez your cheif Deep State story teller in action:
Wuzzup with this 'bought & paid for' fraze that iz so popular in the eko chamber? Iz there sum way uv buying stuff without paying for it that requirez them to add the 'paid for' part?
----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early
http://www.7532020.com
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Yanno, I know I'm going to take a lot of flak for this, but I do have to say: YOU guys have gone full retard about Russia.
In my reading of Russia, UNLIKE US, THE UNITED STATES, everything Russia has done has been defensive. The biggest threat to world peace and stability has not been Russia, but the USA, and the only reason why you're now hyperventilating and paranoid is because one nation has decided to fight back against American hegemony and the crush of the "unipolar moment". You wouldn't be taking this ridiculous stance if you have an objective reading of the last 50 years, a modicum of respect for the interests of other nations, a view of the USA as a "nation among nations" and not (somehow) the "world police", and especially if you spent some time thinking about our ACTUAL interests and the threats to those interests, instead of following every (ahem) red herring that's dragged in front of your noses. I only mention this in the Deep State thread because you guys slavishly follow the deep state line, despite it being totally antithetical to you, to your freedom, and to the economic interests of you and your children.
I love my country (the USA) and despite the egregious violence that WE have visited on the world since WWII, "intervening" in dozens and dozens of nations, sometimes multiple times and killing millions of people in the process ... Indonesia, Philippines, Iran, Chile, Brazil, Nicaragua, Honduras, Colombia, El Salvador, Panama (in fact, every nation in S and Central America except Costa Rica), Sudan, Ethiopia, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Yemen, Pakistan, Sudan ... to no good end, as far as I can tell ... it pains me greatly to see us be so evil and waste so much money while doing it, and to see that none of you have drawn a single lesson from history about the absolute corruption of absolute power.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876
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Quote:Signym, with even the slightest, flimsiest justification, Americans willing support the stupid wars you mentioned. With that kind of solid American support for the troops, the Pentagon can go wherever and do whatever to whoever. The Pentagon certainly gets the money every year for the stupid wars and I don't see tax protestors with signs saying "Don't Spend MY Money On YOUR War!"
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Yanno, I know I'm going to take a lot of flak for this, but I do have to say: YOU guys have gone full retard about Russia.
In my reading of Russia, UNLIKE US, THE UNITED STATES, everything Russia has done has been defensive. The biggest threat to world peace and stability has not been Russia, but the USA, and the only reason why you're now hyperventilating and paranoid is because one nation has decided to fight back against American hegemony and the crush of the "unipolar moment". You wouldn't be taking this ridiculous stance if you have an objective reading of the last 50 years, a modicum of respect for the interests of other nations, a view of the USA as a "nation among nations" and not (somehow) the "world police", and especially if you spent some time thinking about our ACTUAL interests and the threats to those interests, instead of following every (ahem) red herring that's dragged in front of your noses. I only mention this in the Deep State thread because you guys slavishly follow the deep state line, despite it being totally antithetical to you, to your freedom, and to the economic interests of you and your children.
I love my country (the USA) and despite the egregious violence that WE have visited on the world since WWII, "intervening" in dozens and dozens of nations, sometimes multiple times and killing millions of people in the process ... Indonesia, Philippines, Iran, Chile, Brazil, Nicaragua, Honduras, Colombia, El Salvador, Panama (in fact, every nation in S and Central America except Costa Rica), Sudan, Ethiopia, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Yemen, Pakistan, Sudan ... to no good end, as far as I can tell ... it pains me greatly to see us be so evil and waste so much money while doing it, and to see that none of you have drawn a single lesson from history about the absolute corruption of absolute power.
I was around for the Vietnam War. Texans (80 to 90%) were for kicking the hell out of Commies in North Vietnam. They knew all about the South Vietnamese being killed by American troops, said they didn't believe it, but truthfully they did not care who got killed. Didn't bother Texans more than a little bit that Marines were murdering civilians on our side. The situation looked as absurd as in WWII if American planes were bombing Germany, Scotland, Wales, and Ireland with the justification that there might be German infiltrators everywhere. Americans went so crazy in love with killing toward the end of WWII that a majority approved of nuking children. Even today, the majority of Americans (but not all) are still, after so many failed wars, completely crazy in love with killing foreigners. And that is why America has a crazy foreign policy. Americans support the troops, regardless of who they kill.
"How Congress Got Us Out of Vietnam"
http://prospect.org/article/how-congress-got-us-out-vietnam
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:
Originally posted by JO753:
Herez your cheif Deep State story teller in action:
Wuzzup with this 'bought & paid for' fraze that iz so popular in the eko chamber? Iz there sum way uv buying stuff without paying for it that requirez them to add the 'paid for' part?
----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early
http://www.7532020.com
He's not the chief of anything. I don't watch FOX News and never have. I might have heard an hours worth of words out of this man in my entire life, and that includes whenever he might have been talked about by somebody else.
The Deep State was around long before Hannity was a thing. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if he were actually deep state friendly himself, whether wittingly or unwittingly.
What I'm saying is, though I don't know what ridiculous amount of money he gets paid per year, I know it's many, many more times than what he is worth. It would make sense to have somebody like him talk about the Deep State. He's a figurehead of the "beast" that is FOX News, and therefore everything he has to say is dismissed by anybody who watches Rachel Maddow everyday.
If I were a part of the deep state, I'd have Hannity talking about us everyday if I didn't already have Maddow doing it.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Lt. Col. Ralph Peters is a warmonger’s warmonger. As such, he fits in perfectly as a commentator on Fox News. But he’s finally decided he’s had enough of this talk of Deep State and has decided to leave the network. Here’s his email explaining his resignation: www.buzzfeed.com/tomnamako/ralph-peters
Over my decade with Fox, I long was proud of the association. Now I am ashamed. In my view, Fox has degenerated from providing a legitimate and much-needed outlet for conservative voices to a mere propaganda machine for a destructive and ethically ruinous administration. When prime-time hosts—who have never served our country in any capacity—dismiss facts and empirical reality to launch profoundly dishonest assaults on the FBI, the Justice Department, the courts, the intelligence community (in which I served) and, not least, a model public servant and genuine war hero such as Robert Mueller—all the while scaremongering with lurid warnings of “deep-state” machinations—I cannot be part of the same organization, even at a remove. To me, Fox News is now wittingly harming our system of government for profit.
As a Russia analyst for many years, it also has appalled me that hosts who made their reputations as super-patriots and who, justifiably, savaged President Obama for his duplicitous folly with Putin, now advance Putin’s agenda by making light of Russian penetration of our elections and the Trump campaign. Despite increasingly pathetic denials, it turns out that the “nothing-burger” has been covered with Russian dressing all along. And by the way: As an intelligence professional, I can tell you that the Steele dossier rings true—that’s how the Russians do things. The result is that we have an American president who is terrified of his counterpart in Moscow.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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lol buzzfeed
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:Then why are YOU making the same mistake now, with Russia?
Signym, with even the slightest, flimsiest justification, Americans willing support the stupid wars you mentioned ... I was around for the Vietnam War. Texans (80 to 90%) were for kicking the hell out of Commies in North Vietnam. - SECOND
And just OOC, how did YOU feel about our invasions of Panama, Grenada, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Iraq, and Libya, our occupation of Lebanon, and our attempted destruction of Syria? Please, don't tell me about "texans".
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM: ... it pains me greatly to see us be so evil and waste so much money while doing it, and to see that none of you have drawn a single lesson from history about the absolute corruption of absolute power.
So we DO agree about Puttie and absolute power and absolute corruption!
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Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM: ... it pains me greatly to see us be so evil and waste so much money while doing it, and to see that none of you have drawn a single lesson from history about the absolute corruption of absolute power.
So we DO agree about Puttie and absolute power and absolute corruption!
I don't give a rat's ass about Putin. The only time I pay attention to what Russia does is when it might affect OUR essential interests, and so far, that hasn't happened.
Russia doesn't have 1000 military installations all over the world, and Russia's military budget doesn't hold a candle to ours. Boy, are YOU a corrupt deep-state supporter!
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I don't give a rat's ass about Putin. The only time I pay attention to what Russia does is when it might affect OUR essential interests, and so far, that hasn't happened.
You so funny! You owe me a keyboard!
Say more funny things about how you don't care about Russia!
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Quote:
I don't give a rat's ass about Putin. The only time I pay attention to what Russia does is when it might affect OUR essential interests, and so far, that hasn't happened. Russia doesn't have 1000 military installations all over the world, and Russia's military budget doesn't hold a candle to ours. Boy, are YOU a corrupt deep-state supporter!
- SIGNY
You so funny! You owe me a keyboard!
Say more funny things about how you don't care about Russia!- GSTRING
Ah yes, another diversion. I see you're back in "GSTRING" mode.
Show me where and how Russia has threatened OUR essential interests. I'll bet you that you can't.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876
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It does seem as though to some people the word "Russia" is the argument in and of itself, doesn't it?
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:How do I feel? I was once a soldier for Uncle Sam. Long story involving a helicopter crash, but I became anti-war. I'm pretty sure smarter people than me could be anti-war without volunteering or becoming a casualty. But most Americans, even soldiers, don't want to know or think. It is too uncomfortable to realize your country is wasting its time and money in wars. That does not make me a friend of Russia. It is dangerous because it is too much like America.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:Then why are YOU making the same mistake now, with Russia?
Signym, with even the slightest, flimsiest justification, Americans willing support the stupid wars you mentioned ... I was around for the Vietnam War. Texans (80 to 90%) were for kicking the hell out of Commies in North Vietnam. - SECOND
And just OOC, how did YOU feel about our invasions of Panama, Grenada, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Iraq, and Libya, our occupation of Lebanon, and our attempted destruction of Syria? Please, don't tell me about "texans".
I am certain that a majority of Americans are indifferent to killing non-Americans. Like slaughtering cattle for beef, most Americans won’t do the messy, bloody work themselves, but they will pay butchers to do it for them. They patriotically pay their American troops, people like me, to slaughter foreigners for freedom, which is better than beef. If, big if, a majority of Russians are as indifferent to killing non-Russians, that would explain the off and on hostility between America and Russia. It would be sad for the world if a majority of Russians believe like Americans that foreigners are cheap and expendable life, like cattle, pigs, and chickens. Americans are squeamish about killing mostly when it is done in R-rated fashion in front of them. When done for entertainment (Firefly) or patriotism, Americans approve of killing.
www.foodispower.org/slaughterhouse-workers
I saw: "I’m a Russian scientist. Why can’t Americans see past my citizenship?"
https://massivesci.com/articles/russia-scientists-research-trust-ameri
ca/
Quote:
In my adopted home, I’ve found distrust divorced from the reality of my work. . . . From colleagues to taxi drivers, I am subject to a steady barrage of comments. They usually come as jokes: was it I who hacked the DNC? Do I know Putin? Can I tamper with some doping probes? . . . But even if I don’t take their curiosity personally, those jokes underscore the bigger problem that’s underneath: lack of trust and subtle hostility. With the newly intensified interest in Russian affairs, I feel that people increasingly tend to equate the word “Russian” with corruption, online trolling, human rights violations, and “fake news.” . . . Views of Russia in the US and Canada are overwhelmingly negative (and were even before the news about the indictments and election meddling surfaced).
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I didn't post that Mueller had no evidence. Try to keep up.
Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Misrepresentation......that's going around these days. That aside, CC does pose a valid question.
SGGQuote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:Quote:I'm just counting up how many times you misrepresent my post.
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Speaking of honesty, reality, evidence and my problems... I am having this problem getting you to answer a very simple question: do you know what evidence Mueller has? Yes/No?
So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?
So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?
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Quote:No wonder you're pissed off. But I think people get stampeded. Right before the second invasion of Iraq, most people were "for" because they had been convinced (by the WH, and the complicit media, esp the NYT) that Saddam has WMD, and they were absolutely mesmerized by the threat. NOW, most people realize that it was a waste.
How do I feel? I was once a soldier for Uncle Sam. Long story involving a helicopter crash, but I became anti-war. I'm pretty sure smarter people than me could be anti-war without volunteering or becoming a casualty. But most Americans, even soldiers, don't want to know or think.
Quote:It is too uncomfortable to realize that our fearless leaders are corrupt quislings who will send soldiers to die for the petrodollar, or for nothing, and that our media lies to us day and night.
It is too uncomfortable to realize your country is wasting its time and money in wars.
Quote:First, I disagree that it is "too much like America". Most Americans make the mistake of thinking that other places are just like them, that other nations have the same kinds of goals (worldwide dominance) and that other people react with the same motivations. Again, my reading of Russia is that is that their actions have been defensive in nature. It's not necessary to be a "friend" of Russia to get an objective reading of their actions and intentions. It's a good idea not to be stampeded ... AGAIN ... into thinking that someone is our mortal enemy when they aren't.
That does not make me a friend of Russia. It is dangerous because it is too much like America.- SECOND
Also, Russia's military budget is less than the military budget INCREASE proposed by Trump, so Russia's reach is necessarily far more limited than ours.
Quote:Like I said: No wonder you're pissed off. You and your fellow soldiers are thrown into a meat-grinder to save the rest of us Americans from having to wonder if we really are "good people", or not.
I am certain that a majority of Americans are indifferent to killing non-Americans. Like slaughtering cattle for beef, most Americans won’t do the messy, bloody work themselves, but they will pay butchers to do it for them. They patriotically pay their American troops, people like me, to slaughter foreigners for freedom, which is better than beef.
Quote:I think Americans have exceptional reactions because they believe themselves, at heart, to be an exceptional people and morally righteous. In this board, it is rare to find anyone who consistently applies the same rules in all directions. WISHY is all hot to trot about prejudice against women and POC, but grants Antifa the right to act with impunity against while males. THUGR is such a strong believer of "freedom" in Russia that he would allow a surveillance state and restrict freedom of speech here at home. GSTRING claims to have the interests of people at heart, but constantly overlooks the massive human rights violations committed by the USA in favor of focusing on someplace far away, over which he has no control.
If, big if, a majority of Russians are as indifferent to killing non-Russians, that would explain the off and on hostility between America and Russia. It would be sad for the world if a majority of Russians believe like Americans that foreigners are cheap and expendable life, like cattle, pigs, and chickens. Americans are squeamish about killing mostly when it is done in R-rated fashion in front of them. When done for entertainment (Firefly) or patriotism, Americans approve of killing.
It's not just a matter of ethical and intellectual rigor, altho that helps. People here really don't see others "over there" as people; there's no emotional connection. They only ally themselves with people that are ideologically convenient, so they can protect that narrative that they're "good people'.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William
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Sum disjointed comments on the above posts:
Wen you aksept the Strongest Gang perspectiv, everything makes sens.
Aksept the idea that America iz the strongest gang in the world, and you realize that maintaining that pozition, even tho its expensiv, iz better than letting sum other gang take the title. Especially a gang with a worse manajment structure.
Anybody who thinks that letting despots do az they want in the world wont eventually bekum a problem for the US haz a poor grasp uv their predatory nature.
Look wut happened with Russia. A failed state taken over by an oportunistic strongman. Now he haz control uv our goverment and iz furiously working hiz puppet to consolidate that power.
A dictatorship iz inherently more effectiv, efficient and faster than a democrasy. Like a bull vs a couger, the massiv weight advantaj and hornz only delay defeat.
Suppoze the CIA had taken a longer view wen Gorbachev threw in the towel and launched a seksessful campane to take over Russia or turn it into a real democrasy? 'A stich in time savez 9,000,000.'
Hannity made 37,000,000$ last yir. In spite uv your claimz uv ignoring him, 6string, he iz worth every penny bekuz hiz messij saturated the Nation so well that it got to you anyway.
America iz a virtual oligarky due to money controlling the politicianz. There appearz to be a growing backlash agenst this wile at the same time its getting wors. 2 billionairez will be slugging it out in November for the governorship uv Illinois. More than 130,000,000$ wuz spent in the primariez alone for a job that payz 177,412$. Wy do you think billionairez are so interested in grabbing this relatively powerless pozition?
Col Ralf Peterz iz a chowderhed. How duz he think Trump got anywhere near The Oval Offis? He helped Fox corral and nurture the idiots uv America into the voter army that TrumPutin carjacked!
----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early
http://www.7532020.com
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Quote:
Originally posted by JO753:
Hannity made 37,000,000$ last yir. In spite uv your claimz uv ignoring him, 6string, he iz worth every penny bekuz hiz messij saturated the Nation so well that it got to you anyway.
Maddow made 7,000,000 last year. Forbes named her the most powerful person in cable news on June 6th of 2017. She's worth every penny because her message saturated the Nation so well that it got to me anyway.
You entirely missed my point anyhow. My point was that if I was the Deep State, I would have EITHER ONE OF THEM talking endlessly about me. Right away that means that half of the country is going to dismiss it as partisan bullshit. It doesn't matter which side, really.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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We belong to the court of public opinion Second, and we don't have much effect when it comes to our resident Destroyer in Chief. Whoa, there I go again, shooting my mouth off. But this is what it is all about, donating our thoughts to the general milieu. No fault in that. We, as a people, have the right, you know as Americans. It's Constitutionally protected.
But, in a country that values the rule of law, we must await the results of the Special Counsel's investigation, better known as the Witch Hunt. Mueller's appointment marks the second time in our recent history (I never thought I would live to see the likes of this again) that we face a crisis in decency and democracy all rolled into one giant crap-ball. We have a representative, as the leader of the country, who goes around saying (like the cheating husband to his wife) "Are you going to believe me or your lying eyes."
(The above example is in no way a commentary on the life and times of Mr. Trump, but if the shoe fits...)
That one data point you mention may very well be the thing that's enough for most:
DO NOT CONGRATULATE, you would think, would not have to be pointed out to a "normal" leader of the free world. I'm talking about a person using common sense and NOT doing what it has been claimed he did, which is to call and deliberately offer congratulations to a Mafia boss 1) after have taken revenge against a former Russian agent, and 2) Having his political opponents effectively eliminated.
Exactly what a dictator would do to ensure his continued march towards total dominance.
Sometimes I think we're watching a tense spy-thriller movie. No, this is real life.
Quote:
I’m sure we’re all glad to know that it’s henceforth official US policy to congratulate autocrats for winning rigged elections. That’s making America great again.
I agree.....with everything you posit.
Mueller is slowly gathering credible evidence, I'm assuming. If not, this has been a complete and utter waste of time. Somehow, from all I've researched on the man, I don't think that the above is so. Mueller is NOT wasting his time. He is taking his time, and I believe it's the way to go. Meanwhile, we continue with our contributions to the court of public opinion. It is all we can do, for the moment.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by second:Quote:Mueller is working at the slow speed set by the Federal Courts and Federal elections. If Mueller finishes too quickly and his evidence gathering isn't perfect, his entire investigation would have been pointless because either the GOP Congress will threw his report in the trash or the crooks will be reelected. But I don't have to be slow as Mueller to decide if Trump was colluding with Putin. One data point is enough for me:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
One thing is certain, people in the White House are getting nervous. So much so that somewhat irrational, at least that's what Trump and company want us thinking, behavior is the thought of the day. Now that speaks volumes. Rather peculiar behavior for someone who claims innocence. Still though, we can't jump the gun. Let Mueller and company run it's course because passing judgment at this point is premature.
Trump did not follow specific warnings from his national security advisers Tuesday when he congratulated Russian President Vladimir Putin on his reelection — including a section in his briefing materials in all-capital letters stating “DO NOT CONGRATULATE,” according to officials familiar with the call…..It was not clear whether Trump read the notes, administration officials said. Trump, who initiated the call, opened it with the congratulations for Putin, one person familiar with the conversation said.
I’m sure we’re all glad to know that it’s henceforth official US policy to congratulate autocrats for winning rigged elections. That’s making America great again.
Quote of the Day: “Nice Work, Vlad”
www.motherjones.com/kevinNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Acerbic as usual. But why would CC ask the question again, if, as you claim, you previously responded.
Never mind. I withdraw the question.
SGG
Quote:So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?
Originally posted by 1kiki:
I didn't post that Mueller had no evidence. Try to keep up.Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Misrepresentation......that's going around these days. That aside, CC does pose a valid question.
SGGQuote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:Quote:I'm just counting up how many times you misrepresent my post.
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Speaking of honesty, reality, evidence and my problems... I am having this problem getting you to answer a very simple question: do you know what evidence Mueller has? Yes/No?
So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?
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This guy is such a low scumbag snake and isn't worth a moment's time. Fuck him and the donkey he rode in on. Respectfully.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by JO753:
Herez your cheif Deep State story teller in action:
Wuzzup with this 'bought & paid for' fraze that iz so popular in the eko chamber? Iz there sum way uv buying stuff without paying for it that requirez them to add the 'paid for' part?
----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early
http://www.7532020.com
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Quote:I do a certain amount of calculation, but I look at different numbers than most Americans. For a famous example where my calculation differed from the majority of Americans: Americans turned against the Iraq War because of this number: 4,540
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I think Americans have exceptional reactions because they believe themselves, at heart, to be an exceptional people and morally righteous. In this board, it is rare to find anyone who consistently applies the same rules in all directions. WISHY is all hot to trot about prejudice against women and POC, but grants Antifa the right to act with impunity against while males. THUGR is such a strong believer of "freedom" in Russia that he would allow a surveillance state and restrict freedom of speech here at home. GSTRING claims to have the interests of people at heart, but constantly overlooks the massive human rights violations committed by the USA in favor of focusing on someplace far away, over which he has no control.
It's not just a matter of ethical and intellectual rigor, altho that helps. People here really don't see others "over there" as people; there's no emotional connection. They only ally themselves with people that are ideologically convenient, so they can protect that narrative that they're "good people'.
That is the Iraq Coalition's US Military Fatalities
http://icasualties.org/
American fatalities increased slowly. As that number got bigger, more Americans changed their opinion. Once the number got big enough, enough Americans had flipped to opposing the Iraq War. Only then did the war lose some power in minds of Congressmen. The typical Congressman would have never voluntarily changed his mind from his first vote approving the war, but voters forcefully changed his mind for him.
Americans did NOT turn against the Iraq War because of this number: 1,455,590
That is the estimated Iraqi Deaths due to U S. Invasion.
www.justforeignpolicy.org/iraq
No matter how big the Iraqi fatalities, it might just as well be zero from the beginning to the end of the war. The number never made it into most American’s calculation of when to stop supporting the war.
The thinking of most Americans about foreign policy has always been the same as during the Iraq War. Deaths of Americans are the only real number. Deaths of foreigners? It is always zero, at least in the minds of a majority of Americans. (As another famous example: Japan would not have been nuked and firebombed if most Americans had cared about children in general. But they really don't. America and Russia would not have built 50,000 atom bombs per country if they cared about children, but they really don't, except their own child.) Congress and the President can do as they please, making as much money as possible and having the most fun in their lives being big shots making life and death decisions, for as long as the American deaths don't get too large to be ignored by the American voters.
More sophisticated people than Congressmen had larger reasons than I did for not supporting the Iraq War:
www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2002/11/the-fifty-first-state/302
612/
Quote:Iraq war could cost US over $2 trillion, says Nobel prize-winning economist
Going to war with Iraq would mean shouldering all the responsibilities of an occupying power the moment victory was achieved. These would include running the economy, keeping domestic peace, and protecting Iraq's borders
www.theguardian.com/world/2006/jan/07/usa.iraq
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Quote:Agreed. But, in addition to the number of fatalities ... which Bush cynically tried to cover up by having American bodies delivered under cover of darkness ... there was the ongoing investigation which DIDN'T find WMD that so many people were frantic about before the war.
I think Americans have exceptional reactions because they believe themselves, at heart, to be an exceptional people and morally righteous. In this board, it is rare to find anyone who consistently applies the same rules in all directions. WISHY is all hot to trot about prejudice against women and POC, but grants Antifa the right to act with impunity against while males. THUGR is such a strong believer of "freedom" in Russia that he would allow a surveillance state and restrict freedom of speech here at home. GSTRING claims to have the interests of people at heart, but constantly overlooks the massive human rights violations committed by the USA in favor of focusing on someplace far away, over which he has no control.
It's not just a matter of ethical and intellectual rigor, altho that helps. People here really don't see others "over there" as people; there's no emotional connection. They only ally themselves with people that are ideologically convenient, so they can protect that narrative that they're "good people'. - SIGNY
I do a certain amount of calculation, but I look at different numbers than most Americans. For a famous example where my calculation differed from the majority of Americans: Americans turned against the Iraq War because of this number: 4,540
That is the Iraq Coalition's US Military Fatalities
http://icasualties.org/
American fatalities increased slowly. As that number got bigger, more Americans changed their opinion. Once the number got big enough, enough Americans had flipped to opposing the Iraq War. Only then did the war lose some power in minds of Congressmen.- SECOND
Quote:So, the voting public DOES make a difference, in your view?
The typical Congressman would have never voluntarily changed his mind from his first vote approving the war, but voters forcefully changed his mind for him.- SECOND
Quote:Agreed. They only care about who the media tells them to care about, and only as long as the media reminds them to care: The hurricane victims, the mass shooting victims ... But the next news cycle? POOF! The victims are gone!
Americans did NOT turn against the Iraq War because of this number: 1,455,590
That is the estimated Iraqi Deaths due to U S. Invasion. No matter how big the Iraqi fatalities, it might just as well be zero from the beginning to the end of the war. The number never made it into most American’s calculation of when to stop supporting the war.- SECOND
Quote:Except the poor White Helmets, the poor Russian journalists, the poor illegal immigrants ... But those millions of people that the media ignores? You're right: they may as well be zero.
The thinking of most Americans about foreign policy has always been the same as during the Iraq War. Deaths of Americans are the only real number. Deaths of foreigners? It is always zero, at least in the minds of a majority of Americans.- SECOND
One place where Americans are exceptional is that Americans are exceptionally vulnerable to propaganda. Their memories last only as long as the media reminds them.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876
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Quote:
This guy is such a low scumbag snake and isn't worth a moment's time. Fuck him and the donkey he rode in on. Respectfully. - SHINY
I've never listened to Hannity before now, but I would treat him the same way I'd treat any other: Is what he says TRUE? Can it be verified? Or are you just pissed off because he threatens your ideology?
Also, you may recall that Glenn Greenwald ... famous left-wing investigative journalist ... was the initial video in the thread, and HE was talking about the deep state. Is HE full of shit too? Is everyone full of shit except you?
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876
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And finally ...
Quote:Unless the perspective itself is wrong, and then NOTHING makes sense.
Originally posted by JO753:
Sum disjointed comments on the above posts:
Wen you aksept the Strongest Gang perspectiv, everything makes sens.
Quote:Why? What would happen if "someone else" [MOST LIKELY CHINA] took that position? Be specific.
Aksept the idea that America iz the strongest gang in the world, and you realize that maintaining that pozition, even tho its expensiv, iz better than letting sum other gang take the title.
Quote:So? Don't let them "manage" you and you'll be alright.
Especially a gang with a worse manajment structure.
Quote:Such as? Be specific.
Anybody who thinks that letting despots do az they want in the world wont eventually bekum a problem for the US haz a poor grasp uv their predatory nature.
Quote:Wow, JO and his unsupported delusion, again!
Look wut happened with Russia. A failed state taken over by an oportunistic strongman. Now he [PUTIN] haz control uv our goverment and iz furiously working hiz puppet to consolidate that power.
Quote:The United States has such a diversity of resources that - properly managed- we can withstand just about every pressure applied to us. The only thing that we lack is some strategic metals like tantalum and cobalt.
A dictatorship iz inherently more effectiv, efficient and faster than a democrasy. Like a bull vs a couger, the massiv weight advantaj and hornz only delay defeat.
Quote:OH, THEY TRIED! Don't you remember the "shock treatment" that was applied to Russia, which caused the GDP to drop 25% and the reduced the male lifespan by 10 years?
Suppoze the CIA had taken a longer view wen Gorbachev threw in the towel and launched a seksessful campane to take over Russia or turn it into a real democrasy? 'A stich in time savez 9,000,000.
Quote:Why does it make any difference how much Hannity made?
Hannity made 37,000,000$ last yir. In spite uv your claimz uv ignoring him, 6string, he iz worth every penny bekuz hiz messij saturated the Nation so well that it got to you anyway.
Quote:Yanno, JO, when you stop obsessing about RUSSIA!!! you actually make some sense. For example, how can you say that we're an oligarchy controlled by the moneyed, and at the same time say that Putin is controlling us?
America iz avirtualoligarky due to money controlling the politicianz. There appearz to be a growing backlash agenst this wile at the same time its getting wors. 2 billionairez will be slugging it out in November for the governorship uv Illinois. More than 130,000,000$ wuz spent in the primariez alone for a job that payz 177,412$. Wy do you think billionairez are so interested in grabbing this relatively powerless pozition?
Col Ralf Peterz iz a chowderhed. How duz he think Trump got anywhere near The Oval Offis? He helped Fox corral and nurture the idiots uv America into the voter army that TrumPutincarjacked!
Ditch the delusion, you'll do a lot better.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876
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Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Acerbic as usual. But why would CC ask the question again, if, as you claim, you previously responded.
Never mind. I withdraw the question.
fwiw:
KIKI: "And yet ... Mueller hasn't found Trump 'colluding' with Russians."
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=62243&mid=1
047428#1047428
Which started the whole, "how do you know what Mueller knows?" question and silent denial parade.
@SGG - pretty silly really because everyone knows that no one on this board knows what Mueller knows - fun to see them make such lame statements though. Just like their BFF, 'Rump pounding a table and claiming "No Collusion! No Collusion!" over and over.
Here's a question for you SGG: why do you think so many people, whether politicians or pundits or regular dumb @ss citizens, grovel so much at this fat a-hole's feet? Do they hope to catch some table scraps? Is it like some kind of messiah worship where common sense and morality are obscured by obsession? Curious.
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President Trump’s lawyer John Dowd has confirmed with NBC News that his resigning. NBC’s Kristen Welker reports on the circumstances, and how it affects the special counsel’s Russia investigation.
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/watch/john-dowd-resigns-as-trump-s-top-lawy
er-in-special-counsel-investigation-1192177219989
Second Trump lawyer abandons sinking ship.
T
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Quote:
Rand Paul Admits "Absolutely, The Deep State Exists"
Authored by Jay Syrmopoulos via TruthInMedia.com,
Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) said Tuesday during an appearance on The Laura Ingraham Show podcast that the term “deep state” accurately describes how an unelected bureaucracy of national security officials in positions of power exert influence without Congressional oversight.
“Absolutely, there is a deep state, because the deep state is the intelligence agencies that do not have oversight,” he said.
“Only eight people in Congress know what they’re doing, and traditionally, those eight people have been a rubber stamp to let the intelligence communities do whatever they want. There is no skeptic among the eight people that are supposedly overseeing the intelligence community.”
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-03-22/rand-paul-admits-absolutely-
deep-state-exists
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876
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Robert Mueller's consideration of undue influence on Donald Trump's Middle East policies on behalf of Saudi Arabia and UAE.
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/mueller-following-the-money-o
n-trump-middle-east-policy-1191850563652
Can you say about Trump, this idiot must go?
T
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Unless the perspective itself is wrong, and then NOTHING makes sense.
The test being if thingz make sens. If they do, the perspectiv iz useful.
Quote:
Why? What would happen if "someone else" [MOST LIKELY CHINA] took that position? Be specific.
I agree that China iz a bigger thret.
The leader coud deside that America iz a problem that he can fix. Or he coud see an oportunity for himself and grab it. you no - just like Putin did.
Quote:
So? Don't let them "manage" you and you'll be alright.
Woud you mind if sum forin rich 20 y.o. punk showed up 1 day and kikt you out uv your house? 'My dad own bank dat hold you morgaj. New polisy: Pay off now or get out!'
Quote:
OH, THEY TRIED! Don't you remember the "shock treatment" that was applied to Russia, which caused the GDP to drop 25% and the reduced the male lifespan by 10 years?
I do not. Tell us about it.
Quote:
Why does it make any difference how much Hannity made?
Ask 6string. He wuz the wun hoo complained about it.
Quote:
Yanno, JO, when you stop obsessing about RUSSIA!!! you actually make some sense. For example, how can you say that we're an oligarchy controlled by the moneyed, and at the same time say that Putin is controlling us?
Kuz Putin iz an oligark. He got hiz money by taking over a nation. Cant blame sumwun for taking an opportunity to be sumbudy. But you can question their methodz. Maybe it iz nesessary to be a ruthless killer to attain the pozition?
The thing to keep in mind about the super-rich iz that they see goverments az the enemy, (OK, even lots uv nonrich peepl do also) and they hav sum power to fite back.
Did you ever see Rollerball? Its about a future in wich the big corporationz
took over the world. It can happen.
----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early
http://www.7532020.com
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House probe ignored most Trump-Russia contacts, report claims
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/house-probe-ignored-most-trump
-russia-contacts-report-claims/ar-BBKyhIL?ocid=spartanntp
T
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Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
House probe ignored most Trump-Russia contacts, report claims
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/house-probe-ignored-most-trump
-russia-contacts-report-claims/ar-BBKyhIL?ocid=spartanntp
T
It's sad that at the end of the day the big casualty out of all of this is Wikileaks and other whistleblowers in general.
The report linked in the above article calls wikileaks a "Russian Operative".
The report linked also doesn't say anything new. It reads as a point by point collection of things that have been posted to this forum over the months about the Russian narrative.
The report linked also doesn't even claim that the house probe ignored anything. It simply points out denials of contact with Russia, alleged contacts between Trumps Team and Russia, alleged meetings between them and high ranking campaign officials and advisors who were allegedly aware of these alleged relationships.
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/TODAY/z_Creative/MoscowProject.pdf
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
House probe ignored most Trump-Russia contacts, report claims
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/house-probe-ignored-most-trump
-russia-contacts-report-claims/ar-BBKyhIL?ocid=spartanntp
T
It's sad that at the end of the day the big casualty out of all of this is Wikileaks and other whistleblowers in general.
The report linked in the above article calls wikileaks a "Russian Operative".
The report linked also doesn't say anything new. It reads as a point by point collection of things that have been posted to this forum over the months about the Russian narrative.
The report linked also doesn't even claim that the house probe ignored anything. It simply points out denials of contact with Russia, alleged contacts between Trumps Team and Russia, alleged meetings between them and high ranking campaign officials and advisors who were allegedly aware of these alleged relationships.
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/TODAY/z_Creative/MoscowProject.pdf
I always find myself saying shit jack. So again, shit jack. The article says that, "the House committee charged with investigating Russian involvement in the 2016 election obtained either no or incomplete information on about 81 percent of the known contacts between Trump officials and Russians, or groups and individuals with strong Russia ties like Wikileaks."
That means they ignored or paid little attention to 81% of the evidence. Learn to understand what you are reading. One way to do that is to avoid reading it though biased eyes. Try to avoid searching for I got ya moments.
T
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FEC probing Nunes for possible campaign violations
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/fec-probing-nunes-for-possible
-campaign-violations/ar-BBKxmeH?ocid=spartanntp
T
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Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
House probe ignored most Trump-Russia contacts, report claims
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/house-probe-ignored-most-trump
-russia-contacts-report-claims/ar-BBKyhIL?ocid=spartanntp
T
It's sad that at the end of the day the big casualty out of all of this is Wikileaks and other whistleblowers in general.
The report linked in the above article calls wikileaks a "Russian Operative".
The report linked also doesn't say anything new. It reads as a point by point collection of things that have been posted to this forum over the months about the Russian narrative.
The report linked also doesn't even claim that the house probe ignored anything. It simply points out denials of contact with Russia, alleged contacts between Trumps Team and Russia, alleged meetings between them and high ranking campaign officials and advisors who were allegedly aware of these alleged relationships.
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/TODAY/z_Creative/MoscowProject.pdf
I always find myself saying shit jack. So again, shit jack. The article says that, "the House committee charged with investigating Russian involvement in the 2016 election obtained either no or incomplete information on about 81 percent of the known contacts between Trump officials and Russians, or groups and individuals with strong Russia ties like Wikileaks."
That means they ignored or paid little attention to 81% of the evidence. Learn to understand what you are reading. One way to do that is to avoid reading it though biased eyes. Try to avoid searching for I got ya moments.
T
81% of "evidence". You mean alleged incidents over the last year that were quoted off of anonymous sources?
How would one go about investigating things that have no witnesses on the record? Would they strap everyone down for a polygraph test that we've already established has no place in the real world today?
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Get rid of your Italics open quote, or put a close quote in your signature, cunt.
I'm tired of asking nicely.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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That will be the least uv hiz problemz later this yir.
----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early
http://www.7532020.com
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McMaster to Resign as National Security Adviser, and Will Be Replaced by John Bolton
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/mcmaster-to-resign-as-national
-security-adviser-and-will-be-replaced-by-john-bolton/ar-BBKzUaa?ocid=spartanntp
T
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Hey Six, have you read the report? It's pretty interesting. Here's a copy. By the way, it methodically lists both the denials by the Trump people - before, during and after - and it lists the timeline of contacts by the Trump campaign people and Russians.
It's pretty solid evidence listed throughout. It's an easy read that states the 5 W's of the contacts by both parties. Of course, if you don't want to read it, that's your perogative. But it's not hearsay or
Quote:
quoted off of anonymous sources?
Just so you know.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
House probe ignored most Trump-Russia contacts, report claims
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/house-probe-ignored-most-trump
-russia-contacts-report-claims/ar-BBKyhIL?ocid=spartanntp
T
It's sad that at the end of the day the big casualty out of all of this is Wikileaks and other whistleblowers in general.
The report linked in the above article calls wikileaks a "Russian Operative".
The report linked also doesn't say anything new. It reads as a point by point collection of things that have been posted to this forum over the months about the Russian narrative.
The report linked also doesn't even claim that the house probe ignored anything. It simply points out denials of contact with Russia, alleged contacts between Trumps Team and Russia, alleged meetings between them and high ranking campaign officials and advisors who were allegedly aware of these alleged relationships.
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/TODAY/z_Creative/MoscowProject.pdf
I always find myself saying shit jack. So again, shit jack. The article says that, "the House committee charged with investigating Russian involvement in the 2016 election obtained either no or incomplete information on about 81 percent of the known contacts between Trump officials and Russians, or groups and individuals with strong Russia ties like Wikileaks."
That means they ignored or paid little attention to 81% of the evidence. Learn to understand what you are reading. One way to do that is to avoid reading it though biased eyes. Try to avoid searching for I got ya moments.
T
81% of "evidence". You mean alleged incidents over the last year that were quoted off of anonymous sources?
How would one go about investigating things that have no witnesses on the record? Would they strap everyone down for a polygraph test that we've already established has no place in the real world today?
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Prepare for needless war, maybe even Nuclear war. With that crazy fuck Bolton at the helm....we're in for a rollercaoster ride...straight to Hell.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
McMaster to Resign as National Security Adviser, and Will Be Replaced by John Bolton
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/mcmaster-to-resign-as-national
-security-adviser-and-will-be-replaced-by-john-bolton/ar-BBKzUaa?ocid=spartanntp
T
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Yeah, I know, I'm asking a lot. I guess I'm trying to get a crash course in Deep State thinking. I'm still a bit curious, mainly due to something that Six said; and I'm paraphrasing - that it's all coldly calculated and that it's an inevitable outcome.
Quote:
The Deep State isn't needed for that, no. But they know everything that is going on. They can't lose that rigged game because, unlike Krugman, they know how the game is going to play out before it even happens. You don't need a crystal ball when you're controlling the game.
So basically, it's a lost cause for anyone running counter to their agenda; which, according to you guys is world domination or NWO, and there's no sense in fighting them off.
So why, if this is true, why do the Koch Brothers, the Mercers, etc. spend hundreds of millions, even a few billion, trying to affect change throughout the country....gerrymandering, backing local state Republicans and the like, having them pass voter fraud laws, etc. when all is doomed to fail because the Deep State is secretly running things. And if that were so, wouldn't they control the above gerrymandering and voter registration laws, etc. Wouldn't they also give LaPeePee the boot and replace him with a more liberal leader of the NRA?
I've got a lot to learn. I'm not sure I'm up to the task. This Deep State stuff is beyond my comprehension.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:Boy, you're not asking for much, are you? The deep state has been working overtime to stay hidden, and you want a predigested answer that lays everything out in simple terms?
What I'm trying to understand is who exactly is the Deep State that these guys are so obsessed about. I want them to explain just who the players are; and what their agenda is.
Like Mafia dons who are divided geographically and by income stream (some do hookers and blow in Nevada, others run numbers and smuggling in New Jersey) the elites have varying interests: some are globalists and some are nationalists; some are industrialists while others do finances or intellectual property or commodities. The elite controls the media, which is how your behavior is determined. (You really should watch "100 Centuries of Self" and then imagine that kind of manipulation applied to the news and the internet. Just sayin'.)
The DEEP STATE are those politicians*, government employees, spooks, and generals who turn the wishes of the elite into enforced policy. Here, the winnowing has been done primarily through the consistent application of money to elections and the media, but elsewhere - if the government isn't compliant enough- more direct measures are taken, such as engineering bribes, coups, assassinations, and invasions. Because, as KIKI says, the elites don't do their own military and police .... that's too expensive. Far cheaper (for them) to get the poor sods (that's us) to pay for our own exploitation with our own tax dollars. That's quite a trick!
So, who are the Deep Staters?
Who ISN'T a Deep Stater?
By the time you get to be President or Congressperson, or have wormed your way up the military, spook, or judicial ladder, you have likely sold your soul ten times over.
So that includes all past Presidents since Johnson, (Carter was a useful idiot, Bill Clinton was a born sociopath) and excluding Trump, more than likely all heads and most top-tier employees of the spook agencies and the State Department, and (probably since Bush) half of the military brass and all of the Congressional neocons of both parties. And altho technically not part of "the state", all heads of media corporations are pretty good at spreading pro-corporate and pro-government propaganda.
It's a pretty deep swamp!
* Most people don't include politicians as part of the deep state. The usual definition for a deep stater is that they must be an UNELECTED official. But in order to get those unelectNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I've got a lot to learn. I'm not sure I'm up to the task. This Deep State stuff is beyond my comprehension.
That's what people who throw that phrase around want! They don't want you to know who that is. The unknown is scarier than the known. It's for the masses, who don't have much time to read or question what they read. They (pro Trumpers) can just trot that word out like it has magical powers to deflect and explain away all the bad, terrible, unfair things that have befallen poor sad Mr. Trump. "The Deep State" is the bogey man wants to hurt him. Think of that the next time you see it or read it - is it just a nonsense word used for EFFECT? Sure, of course.
And this? What a crock. Everyone is a Deep Stater. No one is a Deep Stater. Anyone could be a Deep Stater. We should be laughing our butts off on this magic trick.
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:Boy, you're not asking for much, are you? The deep state has been working overtime to stay hidden, and you want a predigested answer that lays everything out in simple terms?
What I'm trying to understand is who exactly is the Deep State that these guys are so obsessed about. I want them to explain just who the players are; and what their agenda is.
Like Mafia dons who are divided geographically and by income stream (some do hookers and blow in Nevada, others run numbers and smuggling in New Jersey) the elites have varying interests: some are globalists and some are nationalists; some are industrialists while others do finances or intellectual property or commodities. The elite controls the media, which is how your behavior is determined. (You really should watch "100 Centuries of Self" and then imagine that kind of manipulation applied to the news and the internet. Just sayin'.)
The DEEP STATE are those politicians*, government employees, spooks, and generals who turn the wishes of the elite into enforced policy. Here, the winnowing has been done primarily through the consistent application of money to elections and the media, but elsewhere - if the government isn't compliant enough- more direct measures are taken, such as engineering bribes, coups, assassinations, and invasions. Because, as KIKI says, the elites don't do their own military and police .... that's too expensive. Far cheaper (for them) to get the poor sods (that's us) to pay for our own exploitation with our own tax dollars. That's quite a trick!
So, who are the Deep Staters?
Who ISN'T a Deep Stater?
By the time you get to be President or Congressperson, or have wormed your way up the military, spook, or judicial ladder, you have likely sold your soul ten times over.
So that includes all past Presidents since Johnson, (Carter was a useful idiot, Bill Clinton was a born sociopath) and excluding Trump, more than likely all heads and most top-tier employees of the spook agencies and the State Department, and (probably since Bush) half of the military brass and all of the Congressional neocons of both parties. And altho technically not part of "the state", all heads of media corporations are pretty good at spreading pro-corporate and pro-government propaganda.
It's a pretty deep swamp!
* Most people don't include politicians as part of the deep state. The usual definition for a deep stater is that they must be an UNELECTED official. But in order to get those unelected officials in place, they must be appointed by an ELECTED official, or promoted under the aegis of an appointed official, because if you go up the chain or appointments/ promotions far enough you'll eventually find a politician. That's how the bureau phonebooks gets stacked with deep-staters. (You would think that the CEO of a government agency has no effect on the lower rank employees, but au contraire! Having worked thru the tenure of four CEOs in a government-agency, I can tell you that even low-rankinNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I've got a lot to learn. I'm not sure I'm up to the task. This Deep State stuff is beyond my comprehension.
That's what people who throw that phrase around want! They don't want you to know who that is. The unknown is scarier than the known. It's for the masses, who don't have much time to read or question what they read. They (pro Trumpers) can just trot that word out like it has magical powers to deflect and explain away all the bad, terrible, unfair things that have befallen poor sad Mr. Trump. "The Deep State" is the bogey man wants to hurt him. Think of that the next time you see it or read it - is it just a nonsense word used for EFFECT? Sure, of course.
And this? What a crock. Everyone is a Deep Stater. No one is a Deep Stater. Anyone could be a Deep Stater. We should be laughing our butts off on this magic trick.
Anyone who doesn't buy that there is are much more powerful people pulling the strings of the world behind the curtains has little to no imagination. That is a disability.
I'm sure there are people who only believe the Deep State is true because somebody like Hannity told them it's true. This is also a disability.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Yeah, I know, I'm asking a lot. I guess I'm trying to get a crash course in Deep State thinking. I'm still a bit curious, mainly due to something that Six said; and I'm paraphrasing - that it's all coldly calculated and that it's an inevitable outcome.Quote:
The Deep State isn't needed for that, no. But they know everything that is going on. They can't lose that rigged game because, unlike Krugman, they know how the game is going to play out before it even happens. You don't need a crystal ball when you're controlling the game.
So basically, it's a lost cause for anyone running counter to their agenda; which, according to you guys is world domination or NWO, and there's no sense in fighting them off.
So why, if this is true, why do the Koch Brothers, the Mercers, etc. spend hundreds of millions, even a few billion, trying to affect change throughout the country....gerrymandering, backing local state Republicans and the like, having them pass voter fraud laws, etc. when all is doomed to fail because the Deep State is secretly running things. And if that were so, wouldn't they control the above gerrymandering and voter registration laws, etc. Wouldn't they also give LaPeePee the boot and replace him with a more liberal leader of the NRA?
I've got a lot to learn. I'm not sure I'm up to the task. This Deep State stuff is beyond my comprehension.
Don't hurt yourself thinking about it too much. Whether or not you actually get it means nothing to them. There is not a single thing you could ever hope to do about it.
I'd just recognize that the chaos we're living in is artificial. If everything worked, and everyone was happy and we all got along, the Deep State would have no power.
One thing I'm curious about is why you keep going back to the idea that you think we're saying that only Democrats are part of the deep state. Why you think that having a more liberal leader for the NRA would be a Deep State move. I've certainly never said that.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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A right-winger, a left-winger, a libertarian, and a whistleblower were walking down the road one day, and they all agreed ...
Quote:
Snowden Explains Deep State’s Influence on Presidents Obama, Trump
Famed whistleblower Edward Snowden was recently interviewed by Italian publication La Repubblic. The publication noted the 5-year mark of Snowden’s historic act of blowing the whistle on the NSA’s expansive surveillance programs and that “many thought he would end up very badly, but when he connects via videolink for this interview with la Repubblica, he seems to be doing very well: the frank smile and peaceful face of someone who is easy in his mind.”
In an excerpt from the exclusive interview, Snowden explained how the presidencies of both Obama and Trump are shaped by the Deep State following an illuminating question by journalist Stefania Maurizi.
Stefania Maurizi: We saw that President Obama, who was an outsider to the US military-intelligence complex, initially wanted to reign in the abuses of agencies like the CIA and the NSA, but in the end he did very little. Now we see a confrontation between president Trump and so-called Deep State, which includes the CIA and the NSA. Can a US president govern in opposition to such powerful entities?
truth in media
Edward Snowden: Obama is certainly an instructive case. This is a president who campaigned on a platform of ending warrantless wiretapping in the United States, he said “that’s not who we are, that’s not what we do,” and once he became the president, he expanded the program. He said he was going to close Guantanamo but he kept it open, he said he was going to limit extrajudicial killings and drone strikes that has been so routine in the Bush years. But Obama went on to authorize vastly more drone strikes than Bush. It became an industry.
As for this idea that there is a Deep State, now the Deep State is not just the intelligence agencies, it is really a way of referring to the career bureaucracy of government. These are officials who sit in powerful positions, who don’t leave when presidents do, who watch presidents come and go, they influence policy, they influence presidents and say: this is what we have always done, this is what we must do, and if you don’t do this, people will die.
It is very easy to persuade a new president who comes in, who has never had these powers, but has always wanted this job and wants very, very badly to do that job well. A bureaucrat sitting there for the last twenty years says: I understand what you said, I respect your principles, but if you do what you promised, people will die. It is very easy for a president to go: well, for now, I am going to set this controversy to the side, I’m going to take your advice, let you guys decide how these things should be done, and then I will revisit it, when I have a little more experience, maybe in a few months, maybe in a few years, but then they never do.
This is what we saw quite clearly happen in the case of Barack Obama: when this story [of Snowden exposing the NSA’s mass surveillance] came forward in 2013, when Obama had been president for five years, one of the defences for this from his aides and political allies was: oh, Obama was just about to fix this problem! And sure enough, he eventually was forced from the wave of criticism to make some limited reforms, but he did not go far enough to end all of the programs that were in violation of the law or the constitution of the United States. That too was an intentional choice: he could have certainly used the scandal to advocate for all of the changes that he had campaigned on, to deliver on all of his promises, but in those five years he had become president, he discovered something else, which is that there are benefits from having very powerful intelligence agencies, there are benefits from having these career bureaucrats on your side, using their spider web over government for your benefit.
[RELATED: Snowden Documents: NSA Worked to Track Bitcoin Users]
Imagine you are Barack Obama, and you realise –NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:Well, maybe that perspective works to explain how YOU work and how the USA works, but it doesn't explain how Russia works: The military has advised Congress that Russian hypersonic missiles could wipe the USA off the face of the earth and that there would be NO DEFENSE, not even a "dead man's" counterstrike, and yet Russia hasn't destroyed us and we're still here. China could unleash all-out financial and economic war and destroy the petrodollar by insisting that Saudi Arabia pay for oil in yuan or gold, and yet it hasn't done that either. How do you explain that?
Unless the perspective itself is wrong, and then NOTHING makes sense. - SIGNY
The test being if thingz make sens. If they do, the perspectiv iz useful. = JO
Quote:I said be specific, not *wave your hands and talk in generalities*. HOW could some other fearless leader "fix" the USA-problem? And are you saying that we're defenseless?
Why? What would happen if "someone else" [MOST LIKELY CHINA] took that position? Be specific.- SIGNY
I agree that China iz a bigger thret.
The leader coud deside that America iz a problem that he can fix. Or he coud see an oportunity for himself and grab it. you no - just like Putin did. - JO
Quote:Can't be done, there's such a thing as a mortgage contract. As long as the USA continues to enforce its own laws domestically ... which will continue to be the case provided that we don't sign onto more "free trade" pacts ... then the USA will continue to be a sovereign nation.
So? Don't let them "manage" you and you'll be alright.- SIGNY
Woud you mind if sum forin rich 20 y.o. punk showed up 1 day and kikt you out uv your house? 'My dad own bank dat hold you morgaj. New polisy: Pay off now or get out!' - JO
Quote:Well then you're opining about things that you know nothing about. Try this, or just search for shock therapy + Russia
OH, THEY TRIED! Don't you remember the "shock treatment" that was applied to Russia, which caused the GDP to drop 25% and the reduced the male lifespan by 10 years?- SIGNY
I do not. Tell us about it. - JO
Quote:http://geohistory.today/russia-shock-therapy/
Those advocating shock therapy tended to stress that quickness was the only way to prevent entrenched factions from taking advantage of the situation. They also had a general confidence that once market forces were introduced, institutions would reform or emerge to meet the new conditions. Iwasaki and Suzuki (2014) subdivide the shock therapists into “universal radicalism” and “conditional radicalism.” The former, represented by Murphy et al. (1992), de Melo et al. (1996), and Aslund (2007a), claimed that radical shock therapy ought to be applied universally to all post-Soviet countries. The latter was represented by Klaus (1993) and others who believed that shock therapy is preferable over gradualism as long as certain conditions are met (e.g. the government has the capacity to implement reforms and its citizens are open to capitalism).
Quote:
Why does it make any difference how much Hannity made?- SIGNY
Ask 6string. He wuz the wun hoo complained about it. - JO
No, what happend was this ...
Quote:The point that SIX was making was that Hannity isn't worth anything to SIX. It's just like you to take a snippet out of context and turn it into an argument, isn't it?
Herez your cheif Deep State story teller in action- JO
He's not the chief of anything. I don't watch FOX News and never have ... The Deep State was around long before Hannity was a thing - SIX
Quote:
Yanno, JO, when you stop obsessing about RUSSIA!!! you actually make some sense. For example, how can you say that we're an oligarchy controlled by the moneyed, and at the same time say that Putin is controlling us? - SIGNY
Kuz Putin iz an oligark. He got hiz money by taking over a nation. Cant blame sumwun for takingNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Anyone who doesn't buy that there is are much more powerful people pulling the strings of the world behind the curtains has little to no imagination. That is a disability.
I'm sure there are people who only believe the Deep State is true because somebody like Hannity told them it's true. This is also a disability.
The mistake, the offense, is when people use The Deep State to explain something they can't otherwise explain and don't want to be bothered with the details. It's the same kind of lie a 5 year old tells. "Um, uh, The Jimmy Next Door did it." If you're stuck on thinking that most people (especially here) DON'T already know that rich and powerful people will try and bend things to their will, and often against the will and desires of other rich and powerful people, then you are a capital D Dunce.
People might as well say "Jedi" or "Airbenders."
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Deep state is a fairytale for the confused.
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Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Anyone who doesn't buy that there is are much more powerful people pulling the strings of the world behind the curtains has little to no imagination. That is a disability.
I'm sure there are people who only believe the Deep State is true because somebody like Hannity told them it's true. This is also a disability.
The mistake, the offense, is when people use The Deep State to explain something they can't otherwise explain and don't want to be bothered with the details. It's the same kind of lie a 5 year old tells. "Um, uh, The Jimmy Next Door did it." If you're stuck on thinking that most people (especially here) DON'T already know that rich and powerful people will try and bend things to their will, and often against the will and desires of other rich and powerful people, then you are a capital D Dunce.
People might as well say "Jedi" or "Airbenders."
Deep state is the place were those who live in reality don't go. That's because it's where conspiracy theorists live. Deep state is akin to choosing fancy over science.
T
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Quote:The REAL shame, the REAL offense, is when people can't be bothered to even ask questions.
The mistake, the offense, is when people use The Deep State to explain something they can't otherwise explain and don't want to be bothered with the details.- CC
Here are a few:
After our experience in Afghanistan, when nation-destruction turned out to be so much easier than nation-building, why did we make the same "mistake" of destroying the nation of Iraq and creating a power vacuum?
Long after our dual "mistakes" in Afghanistan and Iraq, why did we then go on to make the same "mistake" in Libya?
And then attempt to do the same thing to Syria?
Why did successive administrations make the same "mistakes" as their predecessors?
******
Why do successive administrations promise peace and freedom, but deliver more wars and more surveillance?
******
Why have successive administrations failed to deliver truly universal, effective health care, despite a great desire of the population to have such a program, and many promises of such a program, starting with Bill and Hillary Clinton in 1992?
******
Why do successive Presidents, both Democrats and Republicans, repeatedly sign on to additional "free trade" agreements, despite clear evidence that they hollow out the middle class, cause trade imbalances, and decrease our security?
******
Are all of those Presidents really that stupid?
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876
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Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Anyone who doesn't buy that there is are much more powerful people pulling the strings of the world behind the curtains has little to no imagination. That is a disability.
I'm sure there are people who only believe the Deep State is true because somebody like Hannity told them it's true. This is also a disability.
The mistake, the offense, is when people use The Deep State to explain something they can't otherwise explain and don't want to be bothered with the details. It's the same kind of lie a 5 year old tells. "Um, uh, The Jimmy Next Door did it." If you're stuck on thinking that most people (especially here) DON'T already know that rich and powerful people will try and bend things to their will, and often against the will and desires of other rich and powerful people, then you are a capital D Dunce.
People might as well say "Jedi" or "Airbenders."
I like that better. From now on, I'm calling them Airbenders.
The Shamalanian Variety.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Deep state is the place were those who live in reality don't go. That's because it's where conspiracy theorists live. Deep state is akin to choosing fancy over science.
T can't even figure out how to use HTML tags on an ancient internet forum.
I don't think anybody should take his opinions about Shamalanian Airbenders seriously, let alone science and critical thinking.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:The REAL shame, the REAL offense, is when people can't be bothered to even ask questions.
The mistake, the offense, is when people use The Deep State to explain something they can't otherwise explain and don't want to be bothered with the details.- CC
Here are a few:
After our experience in Afghanistan, when nation-destruction turned out to be so much easier than nation-building, why did we make the same "mistake" of destroying the nation of Iraq and creating a power vacuum?
Long after our dual "mistakes" in Afghanistan and Iraq, why did we then go on to make the same "mistake" in Libya?
And then attempt to do the same thing to Syria?
Why did successive administrations make the same "mistakes" as their predecessors?
******
Why do successive administrations promise peace and freedom, but deliver more wars and more surveillance?
******
Why have successive administrations failed to deliver truly universal, effective health care, despite a great desire of the population to have such a program, and many promises of such a program, starting with Bill and Hillary Clinton in 1992?
******
Why do successive Presidents, both Democrats and Republicans, repeatedly sign on to additional "free trade" agreements, despite clear evidence that they hollow out the middle class, cause trade imbalances, and decrease our security?
******
Are all of those Presidents really that stupid?
Asking questions is easy. Answers are tough. The incredible number of working parts and the range of their impact on the answer - a rat's next of possibilities and outcomes. Sometimes the line-up changes, sometimes the parts themselves change, and sometimes the question changes.
I have a question: So how do you feel about John Bolton?
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Quote:On how the NRA gets its way in elections. This is applicable to many other policies:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Anyone who doesn't buy that there is are much more powerful people pulling the strings of the world behind the curtains has little to no imagination. That is a disability.
I'm sure there are people who only believe the Deep State is true because somebody like Hannity told them it's true. This is also a disability.
The mistake, the offense, is when people use The Deep State to explain something they can't otherwise explain and don't want to be bothered with the details. It's the same kind of lie a 5 year old tells. "Um, uh, The Jimmy Next Door did it." If you're stuck on thinking that most people (especially here) DON'T already know that rich and powerful people will try and bend things to their will, and often against the will and desires of other rich and powerful people, then you are a capital D Dunce.
People might as well say "Jedi" or "Airbenders."
We see something that almost looks like democracy at work: people organizing around shared policy preferences, consolidating their resources, and mobilizing to pressure lawmakers into doing what they want. We’ve all done some version of this when we’ve made a $5 or $10 contribution to an advocacy organization.
But the NRA spending ultimately leads to policies that run counter to the expressed preferences of the majority of Americans. A small group of extreme, sometimes profit-motivated donors funnels money to an (ostensibly grassroots) group. That group then blankets our electoral cycles in political ads meant to scare Americans into opposing laws that would actually protect them, laws most of them claim to want. Red-state legislators who might otherwise support commonsense gun restrictions instead live under the constant threat of NRA attack ads; all it takes is one small step toward gun reform.
Most scholars get this. When they say the NRA’s influence doesn’t come from money, they mean that it doesn’t come from face-to-face bribery [of politicians]. But this overly simplistic argument, made in good faith, is dangerous. Our country desperately needs to reckon with the complex relationship between money and political power — and yet our intellectual and political leaders are telling us that money doesn’t matter in the case of guns. No wonder we can’t solve our paralysis on gun policy [or a hundred other policies]. We can’t even properly diagnose its causes.
www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2018/2/27/17051560/money-nra-guns-contributio
ns-donations-parkland-march
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Quote:CC, in the runup to EVERY war, there is a huge flurry of propaganda. If "our" target is small and perceived to be weak ... say, Panama, Grenada, or Afghanistan .... the propaganda is perfunctory, barely worth a week's effort:
Asking questions is easy. Answers are tough.- CC
Noreiga drug runner!
Cuba in Grenada! American medical students!
Osama bin Laden!
Nobody bothered to ask Why now? Why is this thing suddenly such a problem?
In the runup to bigger or more problematic invasions, the propaganda effort is a little longer-lasting and involves MULTIPLE reasons, and (more importantly) shifting goalposts, and nobody bothered to ask I've heard multiple rationalizations for this drive to invade, but what's the REAL reason?
Asking questions, especially in the height of a manufactured hysteria, apparently isn't that easy.
******
So, focusing on the aftermath of our recent binge of nation-destruction, why do YOU suppose that successive Presidents of both parties carried on in the same path, with the same results, failing in all cases to achieve their stated goals of peace, stability, freedom, and prosperity for the people of Afghanistan/ Iraq/ Libya/ Syria?
I can only come up with two possible answers:
1) They are all incredibly stupid and incapable of learning from experience, OR
2) They lied about their actual goals.
Can you come up with any other possibilities?
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876
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Quote:I would place the influence of money ever further back in the election cycle, to the primaries.
Most scholars get this. When they say the NRA’s influence doesn’t come from money, they mean that it doesn’t come from face-to-face bribery [of politicians]. But this overly simplistic argument, made in good faith, is dangerous. Our country desperately needs to reckon with the complex relationship between money and political power — and yet our intellectual and political leaders are telling us that money doesn’t matter in the case of guns. No wonder we can’t solve our paralysis on gun policy [or a hundred other policies]. We can’t even properly diagnose its causes. - SECOND
DREAMTROVE made an excellent case for why the primaries are THE place to exert influence (only the die-hard party base votes, so your money goes a lot farther because there are fewer voters to influence, and you can focus on only one party) and the NRA is a master of dirty politics at the primary stage, using negative (and false!) advertising to knock out any GOP politician who does not promise to follow their line 100%, and they're very very successful at this.
So money acts as a FILTER, passing acceptable candidates thru and keeping unacceptable possible winners from ever getting on the final ballot.
Before the first primary, there is another vote, and that is the vote of fundraising
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876
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Filter makes sens.
Or how about Nominator?
Just az the partyz offer up their nominee, Money iz nominating them first and agen for the 2nd step.
----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early
http://www.7532020.com
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Quote:
Anyone who doesn't buy that there is are much more powerful people pulling the strings of the world behind the curtains has little to no imagination. That is a disability.
I'm sure there are people who only believe the Deep State is true because somebody like Hannity told them it's true. This is also a disability.
Okaaaaay! So then which is it? Is there is or is there isn't a Deep State?
SGG
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To me it's more like the "Sith" they lie and manipulate to gain advantage, dominate and eventually rule with an iron fist.
It's obvious that rich people want to remain, well, you know, rich. They like their position of privilege. So they plot and plan, connive and confuse. Simple really. Money is power and power is absolute.....or is it?
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Anyone who doesn't buy that there is are much more powerful people pulling the strings of the world behind the curtains has little to no imagination. That is a disability.
I'm sure there are people who only believe the Deep State is true because somebody like Hannity told them it's true. This is also a disability.
The mistake, the offense, is when people use The Deep State to explain something they can't otherwise explain and don't want to be bothered with the details. It's the same kind of lie a 5 year old tells. "Um, uh, The Jimmy Next Door did it." If you're stuck on thinking that most people (especially here) DON'T already know that rich and powerful people will try and bend things to their will, and often against the will and desires of other rich and powerful people, then you are a capital D Dunce.
People might as well say "Jedi" or "Airbenders."
I like that better. From now on, I'm calling them Airbenders.
The Shamalanian Variety.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:It is, until it isn't. French Revolution, anyone?
It's obvious that rich people want to remain, well, you know, rich. They like their position of privilege. So they plot and plan, connive and confuse. Simple really. Money is power and power is absolute.....or is it? - SGG
Until the invention of the vote, power turnovers were usually bloody events that took many lives. The idea behind the vote was to create a method of peaceful change. (and the idea behind the 2nd Amendment, at least for some FF, was as a backup in case the vote failed.)
And, honestly, the rich and powerful (and their "bought and paid for" media) wouldn't be putting in so much unrelenting effort to bamboolze "the people" if it didn't make any difference!
So now we get to see whether people STAY bamboozled, or whether they identify their real enemy (and, no, it's not black v white, or women v men, or straight v LGBTQ, or Christians v hedonists, or gun owners v non gun owners) and exert their peaceful alternative. They tried Occupy, they tried TEA Party, will they finally get their shit together?
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876
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Quote:
French Revolution, anyone?
Exactly my point............
Quote:
power is absolute.....or is it?
The vote, yes, I agree, it was invented to produce turnover of power without violence, to avoid what took place in France. The peaceful transition of power. But no, I don't agree that the 2d Amendment was installed as a fail safe should re: peaceful transition of power.
It was, as the revolution continued, in response to the rule of the king, a tryant, who compelled the newly liberated people of the United States to defend themselves against his tyrannical rule. It was a type of insurance against the people being "bamboozled," as you so aptly put it.
Quote:
The Second Amendment (Amendment II) to the United States Constitution protects the right of the people to keep and bear arms and was adopted on December 15, 1791, as part of the first ten amendments contained in the Bill of Rights.[1][2][3][4] The Supreme Court of the United States has ruled that the right belongs to individuals,[5][6] while also ruling that the right is not unlimited and does not prohibit all regulation of either firearms or similar devices.[7] State and local governments are limited to the same extent as the federal government from infringing this right, per the incorporation of the Bill of Rights.
Fanatical people see it as an absolute. It is not. Nor is it written anywhere in that most important document, that one man can take that right away. And yet, I always hear people say that any president who dares utter the words "gun control" is hell bent on taking away people's guns - an NRA
deep-rooted lie - and they see "black helicopters" approaching in the horizon.
The rich want what they want....Power. They wish to manipulate and control, and are not afraid to "rig" the system to suit their desires, wants and presumed needs. We, the people, lest we forget, have the power to take control if we stop bitching and moaning at each other. Until that happens, we will forever be at their mercy. You're right, this is US vs. Them - not black and white, etc. We must first agree upon that reality, instead of nitpicking and finding blame where "they" point. Until that day, we must use the vote to put into place those who will look to advance the country as a whole, and not those few privileged so-called elites.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:It is, until it isn't. French Revolution, anyone?
It's obvious that rich people want to remain, well, you know, rich. They like their position of privilege. So they plot and plan, connive and confuse. Simple really. Money is power and power is absolute.....or is it? - SGG
Until the invention of the vote, power turnovers were usually bloody events that took many lives. The idea behind the vote was to create a method of peaceful change. (and the idea behind the 2nd Amendment, at least for some FF, was as a backup in case the vote failed.)
And, honestly, the rich and powerful (and their "bought and paid for" media) wouldn't be putting in so much unrelenting effort to bamboolze "the people" if it didn't make any difference!
So now we get to see whether people STAY bamboozled, or whether they identify their real enemy (and, no, it's not black v white, or women v men, or straight v LGBTQ, or Christians v hedonists, or gun owners v non gun owners) and exert their peaceful alternative. They tried Occupy, they tried TEA Party, will they finally get their shit together?
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876
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Wow, SHINY, I'm kinda shocked my own self. We ... actually ... agree on something??
Quote:In response to the POTENTIAL rise of a tyrant is how I would put it. Some of the FF were desperately worried about the rise of another king in the USA. I'll see if I can find some of those FF quotes which point in that direction.
The vote, yes, I agree, it was invented to produce turnover of power without violence, to avoid what took place in France. The peaceful transition of power. But no, I don't agree that the 2d Amendment was installed as a fail safe should re: peaceful transition of power.
It was, as the revolution continued, in response to the rule of the king, a tyrant, who compelled the newly liberated people of the United States to defend themselves against his tyrannical rule. It was a type of insurance against the people being "bamboozled," as you so aptly put it.- SHINY
As an aside: One of the things that the Constitution and its Amendments make clear is that it represents a COMPROMISE, cobbled together (at times) by using wording that might mean different things to different factions. For example, I was always puzzled by the "pursuit of happiness" phrase, it seems particularly meaningless, until I learned that the original wording was "ownership of property" and that Jefferson, in particular, fought against that "property" phrase. Hence, the substitution.
Quote:I agree. even "freedom of speech" isn't unlimited: You can't yell "FIRE!" in a crowded theater, you can't defame others.
The Second Amendment (Amendment II) to the United States Constitution protects the right of the people to keep and bear arms and was adopted on December 15, 1791, as part of the first ten amendments contained in the Bill of Rights.[1][2][3][4] The Supreme Court of the United States has ruled that the right belongs to individuals,[5][6] while also ruling that the right is not unlimited and does not prohibit all regulation of either firearms or similar devices.[7] State and local governments are limited to the same extent as the federal government from infringing this right, per the incorporation of the Bill of Rights.
Fanatical people see it as an absolute. It is not. Nor is it written anywhere in that most important document, that one man can take that right away. And yet, I always hear people say that any president who dares utter the words "gun control" is hell bent on taking away people's guns - an NRA deep-rooted lie - and they see "black helicopters" approaching in the horizon. - SHINY
The 2nd Amendment, looks to me like another one of those compromises, between those FF who were worried about future kingship/tyranny in the United States, and those FF who were more worried about (yet another) revolt. It's no wonder people have been arguing about the level of state control over gun ownership ever since: It was deliberately vague.
Quote:Amen, bother!
The rich want what they want....Power. They wish to manipulate and control, and are not afraid to "rig" the system to suit their desires, wants and presumed needs. We, the people, lest we forget, have the power to take control if we stop bitching and moaning at each other. Until that happens, we will forever be at their mercy. You're right, this is US vs. Them - not black and white, etc. We must first agree upon that reality, instead of nitpicking and finding blame where "they" point. Until that day, we must use the vote to put into place those who will look to advance the country as a whole, and not those few privileged so-called elites.- SGG
Now, to add one more thing: The elites not only control our political system, they also control the security state, the media, and the banks. That gives them quite a few extremely effective levers on society, not only here but worldwide.
As controllers of the banks, the wealthy can inflate or implode the economy at will by manipul
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Trump's lackey and likely candidate for Deep State collusion..............
Tick, tick BOOM!
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
FEC probing Nunes for possible campaign violations
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/fec-probing-nunes-for-possible
-campaign-violations/ar-BBKxmeH?ocid=spartanntp
T
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To sum up, the Deep State = TPTB. This has been going on for centuries and is nothing new. Spain, The Dutch, Italy (Roman Empire), Brtish Empire, etc. have been playing this game for thousands of years, only the players have changed.
Manipulation and control. But really, for me the concept of the Deep State is far too vague and nebulus, a bit too shadowy to be considered a viable source of power and control. There are far too many variables and far too many "factions" throwing their hats in the ring. This is why the world is so messy.
But fear not, I am aware of their little games: changing the rules to rig the system for their benefit being chief among them. Yes, I've graduated from the school of hard knocks, in spades. I am aware, but I keep my head up.
There's so much more I want to say, but I think we've beaten this "horse" to death. Bottom line, "and this too shall pass."
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Wow, SHINY, I'm kinda shocked my own self. We ... actually ... agree on something??Quote:In response to the POTENTIAL rise of a tyrant is how I would put it. Some of the FF were desperately worried about the rise of another king in the USA. I'll see if I can find some of those FF quotes which point in that direction.
The vote, yes, I agree, it was invented to produce turnover of power without violence, to avoid what took place in France. The peaceful transition of power. But no, I don't agree that the 2d Amendment was installed as a fail safe should re: peaceful transition of power.
It was, as the revolution continued, in response to the rule of the king, a tyrant, who compelled the newly liberated people of the United States to defend themselves against his tyrannical rule. It was a type of insurance against the people being "bamboozled," as you so aptly put it.- SHINY
As an aside: One of the things that the Constitution and its Amendments make clear is that it represents a COMPROMISE, cobbled together (at times) by using wording that might mean different things to different factions. For example, I was always puzzled by the "pursuit of happiness" phrase, it seems particularly meaningless, until I learned that the original wording was "ownership of property" and that Jefferson, in particular, fought against that "property" phrase. Hence, the substitution.Quote:I agree. even "freedom of speech" isn't unlimited: You can't yell "FIRE!" in a crowded theater, you can't defame others.
The Second Amendment (Amendment II) to the United States Constitution protects the right of the people to keep and bear arms and was adopted on December 15, 1791, as part of the first ten amendments contained in the Bill of Rights.[1][2][3][4] The Supreme Court of the United States has ruled that the right belongs to individuals,[5][6] while also ruling that the right is not unlimited and does not prohibit all regulation of either firearms or similar devices.[7] State and local governments are limited to the same extent as the federal government from infringing this right, per the incorporation of the Bill of Rights.
Fanatical people see it as an absolute. It is not. Nor is it written anywhere in that most important document, that one man can take that right away. And yet, I always hear people say that any president who dares utter the words "gun control" is hell bent on taking away people's guns - an NRA deep-rooted lie - and they see "black helicopters" approaching in the horizon. - SHINY
The 2nd Amendment, looks to me like another one of those compromises, between those FF who were worried about future kingship/tyranny in the United States, and those FF who were more worried about (yet another) revolt. It's no wonder people have been arguing about the level of state control over gun ownership ever since: It was deliberately vague.Quote:
The rich want what they want....Power. TheNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:Not entirely true.
To sum up, the Deep State = TPTB. This has been going on for centuries and is nothing new. Spain, The Dutch, Italy (Roman Empire), Brtish Empire, etc. have been playing this game for thousands of years, only the players have changed. - SHINY
The development of ...
The oil tanker, shipping container, and mega-cargo ships have made globe-spanning mass-production and distribution possible, for the first time in history.
Nuclear weapons have made worldwide destruction possible, for the first time in history.
Electronic banking has made money (debt) creation virtually unlimited.
Automation has reduced the value of human labor.
Internet has not only made it possible to glue people's eyes to screen nearly 24/7 and feed them endless advert/propaganda, but also to surveill people to a point formerly possibly only in dystopian scifi.
*****
Also, being aware of the factions which make up the elite (and their control of government thru the persistence of unelected and elected officials) allows you to pick your poison.
So, I choose the nationalist/ isolationist faction of the deep state over the globalist/interventionist one. At least the nationalist faction localizes laws and judicial rulings to the United Stated court system -over which we have SOME control - instead of to some faraway private hearing room in Singapore where "they" get to decide what happens to our regulations according to some "free trade" agreement, where the USA Constitution is entirely meaningless and in which we have no hope of representation ever.
Not all "deep state" factions are equally poisonous. I would be working extra-hard to remove the tentacles of globalist control from the USA government, and that includes the banks'.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876
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What sig calls deep state and rails against is known to the rest of us as the establishment. Sigs solution is to tear it down. Putin's solution is also to tear it down.
It's easy to find fault with a semi-functional world. The way forward is the rule of law. Look back and you'll see we are moving in that direction. Sigs a fool who rails against the democratic institution responsible for bringing the rule of law to the world.
Her Putin and Trump are like the death cry you hear from a dying idea. Everyone for themselves form of tribalism. And the free reign of criminal enterprises.
T
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Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
What sig calls deep state and rails against is known to the rest of us as the establishment. Sigs solution is to tear it down. Putin's solution is also to tear it down.
It's easy to find fault with a semi-functional world. The way forward is the rule of law. Look back and you'll see we are moving in that direction. Sigs a fool...
I always knew you were a deep-state, anti-democracy suckup, THUGR. You would have been backing King George and the East India Crown Corp in 1775. It's a good thing you and your kind got your asses whupped back then.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
What sig calls deep state and rails against is known to the rest of us as the establishment. Sigs solution is to tear it down. Putin's solution is also to tear it down.
It's easy to find fault with a semi-functional world. The way forward is the rule of law. Look back and you'll see we are moving in that direction. Sigs a fool...
I always knew you were a deep-state, anti-democracy suckup, THUGR. You would have been backing King George and the East India Crown Corp in 1775. It's a good thing you and your kind got your asses whupped back then.
Shut up stupid. As Gandalf would say. I'm not here to banter with a witless worm like you comrade. What you claim makes no sense when compared to what I post. No surprise, you do that to everyone.
T
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Quote:Then, why are you?
Originally posted by THGRRI:
What sig calls deep state and rails against is known to the rest of us as the establishment. Sigs solution is to tear it down. Putin's solution is also to tear it down.
It's easy to find fault with a semi-functional world. The way forward is the rule of law. Look back and you'll see we are moving in that direction. Sigs a fool... - THUGR
I always knew you were a deep-state, anti-democracy suckup, THUGR. You would have been backing King George and the East India Crown Corp in 1775. It's a good thing you and your kind got your asses whupped back then.
- SIGNY
Shut up stupid. As Gandalf would say. I'm not here to banter with a witless worm like you comrade. - THUGR
I'm arguing for bringing control of government back to the people. What are YOU arguing for? The wealthy having more and more control? It's easy to see which side you're on: Heil Hitler!
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:Then, why are you?
Originally posted by THGRRI:
What sig calls deep state and rails against is known to the rest of us as the establishment. Sigs solution is to tear it down. Putin's solution is also to tear it down.
It's easy to find fault with a semi-functional world. The way forward is the rule of law. Look back and you'll see we are moving in that direction. Sigs a fool... - THUGR
I always knew you were a deep-state, anti-democracy suckup, THUGR. You would have been backing King George and the East India Crown Corp in 1775. It's a good thing you and your kind got your asses whupped back then.
- SIGNY
Shut up stupid. As Gandalf would say. I'm not here to banter with a witless worm like you comrade. - THUGR
I'm arguing for bringing control of government back to the people. What are YOU arguing for? The wealthy having more and more control? It's easy to see which side you're on: Heil Hitler!
If that were true your guns would be pointed at Russia and Trump. Not America and our democratic institutions. And you would not be defending raciest and white supremacists like Putin and Trump.
No, those two things alone show who the Nationalist Socialist Party or fascist totalitarian dictatorship representative is here. You comrade troll, you.
Hey, I'm still awaiting a cease and desist order from your and kiki's lawyer. Lets get to it shall we you fucking Russian troll losers.
T
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Quote:Only you would be stupid enough to confuse the manipulation of our vote by the elite, and the shredding of our Constitution by the security agencies as anything related to "democratic institutions".
If that were true your guns would be pointed at Russia and Trump. Not America and our democratic institutions. [emphasis added] And you would not be defending raciest and white supremacists like Putin and Trump.
Heil Hitler!
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876
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Quote:
I always knew you were a deep-state, anti-democracy suckup, THUGR. You would have been backing King George and the East India Crown Corp in 1775. It's a good thing you and your kind got your asses whupped back then.
You see, now that statement right there proves my point: The "Deep State" as you like to call it, has been around for a millennia, maybe two.
You can't have it both ways, Sig.
SGG
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Quote:
So, I choose the nationalist/ isolationist faction of the deep state over the globalist/interventionist one.
Wait, what!? I've read here in RWED you rail against the Deep State, yet you now profess that if it's kept local, you're fine with it.
Quote:
At least the nationalist faction localizes laws and judicial rulings to the United Stated court system -over which we have SOME control - instead of to some faraway private hearing room in Singapore where "they" get to decide what happens to our regulations according to some "free trade" agreement, where the USA Constitution is entirely meaningless and in which we have no hope of representation ever.
By the way, you really believe you can control the Deep State here in the US? You claim that, even though you don't even know who they are? How can that be? And you're really conflating the issue of international trade vs. our domestic laws and regs? You really think that Singapore can influence our domestic laws? No, I don't think so.
Quote:
Not all "deep state" factions are equally poisonous. I would be working extra-hard to remove the tentacles of globalist control from the USA government, and that includes the banks'
Work hard all you want dearie, but I'm afraid that you're too late in regards to the banks. That ship has sailed! So, domestic Deep State, good, but international Deep State, bad. Got it!
So you're good with the Deep State manipulating the vote, gun control efforts, banks, wages, health insurance, etc., etc., etc! (sorry, i was watching the King and I recently) and other assorted sundries. My, my I really thought you had it in for the Deep State. I stand corrected.
SGG
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Quote:No, and if you'd been paying attention you wouldn't have posted that. But I will repeat what I've previously posted... probably for the umpteenth time, and maybe you'll get it THIS time. Or maybe not: It seems you have a deep interest in misinterpreting what I've posted.
So, I choose the nationalist/ isolationist faction of the deep state over the globalist/interventionist one.- SIGNY
Wait, what!? I've read here in RWED you rail against the Deep State, yet you now profess that if it's kept local, you're fine with it. - SHINY
Here is part of my reasoning below ... something which you blew right past ...
Quote:Well, yes, we CAN control the deep state here, if - as you said- we set aside our petty differences and stop sniping at each other (like you're doing right now to me).
At least the nationalist faction localizes laws and judicial rulings to the United Stated court system -over which we have SOME control - instead of to some faraway private hearing room in Singapore where "they" get to decide what happens to our regulations according to some "free trade" agreement, where the USA Constitution is entirely meaningless and in which we have no hope of representation ever.- SIGNY
By the way, you really believe you can control the Deep State here in the US? You claim that, even though you don't even know who they are? How can that be?
The reason why the deep state works SO hard to control the narrative, propagandizing us as it does thru screen time nearly every waking moment, is because it DOES make a difference what "most people think". There have been successful mass movements in the past: the civil rights movement, the environmental movement, the anti-Vietnam War movement, women's movement. If there were successful movements in the past, there can be successful movements in the future. Hence, the constant distraction and propagandizing 24/7.
Quote:OF COURSE IT CAN. Have you not paid ANY attention to the "Free Trade" agreements like the TTP and the TTIP? Those agreements ... which were negotiated in secret, and which could only be viewed by Congresspeople in a secure basement room to which they could bring no recording device - not even pencil and paper ... contained provisions which said that regulations (AND THAT INCLUDES Federal, state, and local) that interfered with "customary and usual profits" could be overruled by the trade tribunals. There have ALREADY been cases brought against national governments on the basis that they imposed regulations which interfered with customary and usual profits, and those were adjudicated in secret trade hearings. So not only "could" it happen it already has.
And you're really conflating the issue of international trade vs. our domestic laws and regs? You really think that Singapore can influence our domestic laws? No, I don't think so.- SHINY
So sit up and pay attention! *smacks SHINY in the back of the head*
Here's an example: If someone sells a product which causes cancer into the USA, but it's allowed by a "free trade" agreement, what hope do you suppose that YOU, or your city, country, state, or national government, could be represented anywhere in that system? In what court would you have standing? Oh, that's right: None!
Quote:
Not all "deep state" factions are equally poisonous. I would be working extra-hard to remove the tentacles of globalist control from the USA government, and that includes the banks'- SIGNY
Work hard all you want dearie, but I'm afraid that you're too late in regards to the banks. That ship has sailed! - SHINY
I said REMOVE the tentacles of the internationalist Deep State, which means that I recognize they they're already in place. That ship HAS sailed and you're not telling me anything that I don't already know. But we need to turn it around.
As far as their relative toxicity: t
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SGG, a part of what sig tries to promote to achieve her agenda, the destruction of democratic institutions here and abroad, is anarchy. Her posts consistently promote a rebellion against any authority, established order, or ruling power in an otherwise free or global society.
Sig is desperately trying to undermine the building of a fully integrated global entity. Or, any society observing a rule of law that helps to build one. To promote her agenda she is a purveyor of conspiracy theories. Using any lies or disinformation she can to usurp the facts regarding globalization and democratic institutions. Remember her insistence America vote against The Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP)?
Sig deceptively argues for the transfer of power to a lower level, especially from central government to local or regional administrations. When it comes to trade or dealing with unruly governments i.e. Russia, that leads to protectionism and inaction. That's anti globalization and what the anarchist is all about.
As she does this she labels others as being the very thing she is. She is a troll. She has always been one, or she has evolved into one. Either way she is nothing more than a troll that would see America devolve or retreat from the global stage entirely if she could.
Fuck you comrade sig
T
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Quote:And here we see THUGR desperately arguing for the expansion of "authority, established order, or ruling power" against American sovereignty. Because he wants to "deal with" other nations and impose our will on them militarily, politically, and economically he is willing to give up our democratic institutions to some sort of private globalist corporatocracy. In other words, he's a true authoritarian, all thrilled to pieces with the imposition of "ruling power" everywhere, just the perfect little nazi. And so I say
SGG, a part of what sig tries to promote to achieve her agenda, the destruction of democratic institutions here and abroad, is anarchy. Her posts consistently promote a rebellion against any authority, established order, or ruling power in an otherwise free or global society.
Sig is desperately trying to undermine the building of a fully integrated global entity. Or, any society observing a rule of law that helps to build one. To promote her agenda she is a purveyor of conspiracy theories. Using any lies or disinformation she can to usurp the facts regarding globalization and democratic institutions. Remember her insistence America vote against The Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP)?
Sig deceptively argues for the transfer of power to a lower level, especially from central government to local or regional administrations. When it comes to trade or dealing with unruly governments i.e. Russia, that leads to protectionism and inaction. That's anti globalization and what the anarchist is all about.
As she does this she labels others as being the very thing she is. She is a troll. She has always been one, or she has evolved into one. Either way she is nothing more than a troll that would see America devolve or retreat from the global stage entirely if she could.
Fuck you comrade sig
Heil Hitler!
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876
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Roger Stone charged
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?530728-Roger-Stone-charged
Roger Stone --Breaking news!:
https://upload.democraticunderground.com/100211725084
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