Real World Event Discussions
Deep state. MSM. Trump ...
POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Friday, March 14, 2025 17:04
VIEWED: 33741
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Friday, March 23, 2018 2:17 PM
Hey Six, have you read the report? It's pretty interesting. Here's a copy. By the way, it methodically lists both the denials by the Trump people - before, during and after - and it lists the timeline of contacts by the Trump campaign people and Russians.
It's pretty solid evidence listed throughout. It's an easy read that states the 5 W's of the contacts by both parties. Of course, if you don't want to read it, that's your perogative. But it's not hearsay or
Quote:
quoted off of anonymous sources?
Just so you know.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
House probe ignored most Trump-Russia contacts, report claims
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/house-probe-ignored-most-trump
-russia-contacts-report-claims/ar-BBKyhIL?ocid=spartanntp
T
It's sad that at the end of the day the big casualty out of all of this is Wikileaks and other whistleblowers in general.
The report linked in the above article calls wikileaks a "Russian Operative".
The report linked also doesn't say anything new. It reads as a point by point collection of things that have been posted to this forum over the months about the Russian narrative.
The report linked also doesn't even claim that the house probe ignored anything. It simply points out denials of contact with Russia, alleged contacts between Trumps Team and Russia, alleged meetings between them and high ranking campaign officials and advisors who were allegedly aware of these alleged relationships.
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/TODAY/z_Creative/MoscowProject.pdf
I always find myself saying shit jack. So again, shit jack. The article says that, "the House committee charged with investigating Russian involvement in the 2016 election obtained either no or incomplete information on about 81 percent of the known contacts between Trump officials and Russians, or groups and individuals with strong Russia ties like Wikileaks."
That means they ignored or paid little attention to 81% of the evidence. Learn to understand what you are reading. One way to do that is to avoid reading it though biased eyes. Try to avoid searching for I got ya moments.
T
81% of "evidence". You mean alleged incidents over the last year that were quoted off of anonymous sources?
How would one go about investigating things that have no witnesses on the record? Would they strap everyone down for a polygraph test that we've already established has no place in the real world today?
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Friday, March 23, 2018 2:20 PM
Prepare for needless war, maybe even Nuclear war. With that crazy fuck Bolton at the helm....we're in for a rollercaoster ride...straight to Hell.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
McMaster to Resign as National Security Adviser, and Will Be Replaced by John Bolton
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/mcmaster-to-resign-as-national
-security-adviser-and-will-be-replaced-by-john-bolton/ar-BBKzUaa?ocid=spartanntp
T
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Friday, March 23, 2018 2:46 PM
Yeah, I know, I'm asking a lot. I guess I'm trying to get a crash course in Deep State thinking. I'm still a bit curious, mainly due to something that Six said; and I'm paraphrasing - that it's all coldly calculated and that it's an inevitable outcome.
Quote:
The Deep State isn't needed for that, no. But they know everything that is going on. They can't lose that rigged game because, unlike Krugman, they know how the game is going to play out before it even happens. You don't need a crystal ball when you're controlling the game.
So basically, it's a lost cause for anyone running counter to their agenda; which, according to you guys is world domination or NWO, and there's no sense in fighting them off.
So why, if this is true, why do the Koch Brothers, the Mercers, etc. spend hundreds of millions, even a few billion, trying to affect change throughout the country....gerrymandering, backing local state Republicans and the like, having them pass voter fraud laws, etc. when all is doomed to fail because the Deep State is secretly running things. And if that were so, wouldn't they control the above gerrymandering and voter registration laws, etc. Wouldn't they also give LaPeePee the boot and replace him with a more liberal leader of the NRA?
I've got a lot to learn. I'm not sure I'm up to the task. This Deep State stuff is beyond my comprehension.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:Boy, you're not asking for much, are you? The deep state has been working overtime to stay hidden, and you want a predigested answer that lays everything out in simple terms?
What I'm trying to understand is who exactly is the Deep State that these guys are so obsessed about. I want them to explain just who the players are; and what their agenda is.
Like Mafia dons who are divided geographically and by income stream (some do hookers and blow in Nevada, others run numbers and smuggling in New Jersey) the elites have varying interests: some are globalists and some are nationalists; some are industrialists while others do finances or intellectual property or commodities. The elite controls the media, which is how your behavior is determined. (You really should watch "100 Centuries of Self" and then imagine that kind of manipulation applied to the news and the internet. Just sayin'.)
The DEEP STATE are those politicians*, government employees, spooks, and generals who turn the wishes of the elite into enforced policy. Here, the winnowing has been done primarily through the consistent application of money to elections and the media, but elsewhere - if the government isn't compliant enough- more direct measures are taken, such as engineering bribes, coups, assassinations, and invasions. Because, as KIKI says, the elites don't do their own military and police .... that's too expensive. Far cheaper (for them) to get the poor sods (that's us) to pay for our own exploitation with our own tax dollars. That's quite a trick!
So, who are the Deep Staters?
Who ISN'T a Deep Stater?
By the time you get to be President or Congressperson, or have wormed your way up the military, spook, or judicial ladder, you have likely sold your soul ten times over.
So that includes all past Presidents since Johnson, (Carter was a useful idiot, Bill Clinton was a born sociopath) and excluding Trump, more than likely all heads and most top-tier employees of the spook agencies and the State Department, and (probably since Bush) half of the military brass and all of the Congressional neocons of both parties. And altho technically not part of "the state", all heads of media corporations are pretty good at spreading pro-corporate and pro-government propaganda.
It's a pretty deep swamp!
* Most people don't include politicians as part of the deep state. The usual definition for a deep stater is that they must be an UNELECTED official. But in order to get those unelectNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Friday, March 23, 2018 4:37 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I've got a lot to learn. I'm not sure I'm up to the task. This Deep State stuff is beyond my comprehension.
That's what people who throw that phrase around want! They don't want you to know who that is. The unknown is scarier than the known. It's for the masses, who don't have much time to read or question what they read. They (pro Trumpers) can just trot that word out like it has magical powers to deflect and explain away all the bad, terrible, unfair things that have befallen poor sad Mr. Trump. "The Deep State" is the bogey man wants to hurt him. Think of that the next time you see it or read it - is it just a nonsense word used for EFFECT? Sure, of course.
And this? What a crock. Everyone is a Deep Stater. No one is a Deep Stater. Anyone could be a Deep Stater. We should be laughing our butts off on this magic trick.
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:Boy, you're not asking for much, are you? The deep state has been working overtime to stay hidden, and you want a predigested answer that lays everything out in simple terms?
What I'm trying to understand is who exactly is the Deep State that these guys are so obsessed about. I want them to explain just who the players are; and what their agenda is.
Like Mafia dons who are divided geographically and by income stream (some do hookers and blow in Nevada, others run numbers and smuggling in New Jersey) the elites have varying interests: some are globalists and some are nationalists; some are industrialists while others do finances or intellectual property or commodities. The elite controls the media, which is how your behavior is determined. (You really should watch "100 Centuries of Self" and then imagine that kind of manipulation applied to the news and the internet. Just sayin'.)
The DEEP STATE are those politicians*, government employees, spooks, and generals who turn the wishes of the elite into enforced policy. Here, the winnowing has been done primarily through the consistent application of money to elections and the media, but elsewhere - if the government isn't compliant enough- more direct measures are taken, such as engineering bribes, coups, assassinations, and invasions. Because, as KIKI says, the elites don't do their own military and police .... that's too expensive. Far cheaper (for them) to get the poor sods (that's us) to pay for our own exploitation with our own tax dollars. That's quite a trick!
So, who are the Deep Staters?
Who ISN'T a Deep Stater?
By the time you get to be President or Congressperson, or have wormed your way up the military, spook, or judicial ladder, you have likely sold your soul ten times over.
So that includes all past Presidents since Johnson, (Carter was a useful idiot, Bill Clinton was a born sociopath) and excluding Trump, more than likely all heads and most top-tier employees of the spook agencies and the State Department, and (probably since Bush) half of the military brass and all of the Congressional neocons of both parties. And altho technically not part of "the state", all heads of media corporations are pretty good at spreading pro-corporate and pro-government propaganda.
It's a pretty deep swamp!
* Most people don't include politicians as part of the deep state. The usual definition for a deep stater is that they must be an UNELECTED official. But in order to get those unelected officials in place, they must be appointed by an ELECTED official, or promoted under the aegis of an appointed official, because if you go up the chain or appointments/ promotions far enough you'll eventually find a politician. That's how the bureau phonebooks gets stacked with deep-staters. (You would think that the CEO of a government agency has no effect on the lower rank employees, but au contraire! Having worked thru the tenure of four CEOs in a government-agency, I can tell you that even low-rankinNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Friday, March 23, 2018 4:43 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I've got a lot to learn. I'm not sure I'm up to the task. This Deep State stuff is beyond my comprehension.
That's what people who throw that phrase around want! They don't want you to know who that is. The unknown is scarier than the known. It's for the masses, who don't have much time to read or question what they read. They (pro Trumpers) can just trot that word out like it has magical powers to deflect and explain away all the bad, terrible, unfair things that have befallen poor sad Mr. Trump. "The Deep State" is the bogey man wants to hurt him. Think of that the next time you see it or read it - is it just a nonsense word used for EFFECT? Sure, of course.
And this? What a crock. Everyone is a Deep Stater. No one is a Deep Stater. Anyone could be a Deep Stater. We should be laughing our butts off on this magic trick.
Anyone who doesn't buy that there is are much more powerful people pulling the strings of the world behind the curtains has little to no imagination. That is a disability.
I'm sure there are people who only believe the Deep State is true because somebody like Hannity told them it's true. This is also a disability.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Friday, March 23, 2018 4:50 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Yeah, I know, I'm asking a lot. I guess I'm trying to get a crash course in Deep State thinking. I'm still a bit curious, mainly due to something that Six said; and I'm paraphrasing - that it's all coldly calculated and that it's an inevitable outcome.Quote:
The Deep State isn't needed for that, no. But they know everything that is going on. They can't lose that rigged game because, unlike Krugman, they know how the game is going to play out before it even happens. You don't need a crystal ball when you're controlling the game.
So basically, it's a lost cause for anyone running counter to their agenda; which, according to you guys is world domination or NWO, and there's no sense in fighting them off.
So why, if this is true, why do the Koch Brothers, the Mercers, etc. spend hundreds of millions, even a few billion, trying to affect change throughout the country....gerrymandering, backing local state Republicans and the like, having them pass voter fraud laws, etc. when all is doomed to fail because the Deep State is secretly running things. And if that were so, wouldn't they control the above gerrymandering and voter registration laws, etc. Wouldn't they also give LaPeePee the boot and replace him with a more liberal leader of the NRA?
I've got a lot to learn. I'm not sure I'm up to the task. This Deep State stuff is beyond my comprehension.
Don't hurt yourself thinking about it too much. Whether or not you actually get it means nothing to them. There is not a single thing you could ever hope to do about it.
I'd just recognize that the chaos we're living in is artificial. If everything worked, and everyone was happy and we all got along, the Deep State would have no power.
One thing I'm curious about is why you keep going back to the idea that you think we're saying that only Democrats are part of the deep state. Why you think that having a more liberal leader for the NRA would be a Deep State move. I've certainly never said that.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Friday, March 23, 2018 6:38 PM
A right-winger, a left-winger, a libertarian, and a whistleblower were walking down the road one day, and they all agreed ...
Quote:
Snowden Explains Deep State’s Influence on Presidents Obama, Trump
Famed whistleblower Edward Snowden was recently interviewed by Italian publication La Repubblic. The publication noted the 5-year mark of Snowden’s historic act of blowing the whistle on the NSA’s expansive surveillance programs and that “many thought he would end up very badly, but when he connects via videolink for this interview with la Repubblica, he seems to be doing very well: the frank smile and peaceful face of someone who is easy in his mind.”
In an excerpt from the exclusive interview, Snowden explained how the presidencies of both Obama and Trump are shaped by the Deep State following an illuminating question by journalist Stefania Maurizi.
Stefania Maurizi: We saw that President Obama, who was an outsider to the US military-intelligence complex, initially wanted to reign in the abuses of agencies like the CIA and the NSA, but in the end he did very little. Now we see a confrontation between president Trump and so-called Deep State, which includes the CIA and the NSA. Can a US president govern in opposition to such powerful entities?
truth in media
Edward Snowden: Obama is certainly an instructive case. This is a president who campaigned on a platform of ending warrantless wiretapping in the United States, he said “that’s not who we are, that’s not what we do,” and once he became the president, he expanded the program. He said he was going to close Guantanamo but he kept it open, he said he was going to limit extrajudicial killings and drone strikes that has been so routine in the Bush years. But Obama went on to authorize vastly more drone strikes than Bush. It became an industry.
As for this idea that there is a Deep State, now the Deep State is not just the intelligence agencies, it is really a way of referring to the career bureaucracy of government. These are officials who sit in powerful positions, who don’t leave when presidents do, who watch presidents come and go, they influence policy, they influence presidents and say: this is what we have always done, this is what we must do, and if you don’t do this, people will die.
It is very easy to persuade a new president who comes in, who has never had these powers, but has always wanted this job and wants very, very badly to do that job well. A bureaucrat sitting there for the last twenty years says: I understand what you said, I respect your principles, but if you do what you promised, people will die. It is very easy for a president to go: well, for now, I am going to set this controversy to the side, I’m going to take your advice, let you guys decide how these things should be done, and then I will revisit it, when I have a little more experience, maybe in a few months, maybe in a few years, but then they never do.
This is what we saw quite clearly happen in the case of Barack Obama: when this story [of Snowden exposing the NSA’s mass surveillance] came forward in 2013, when Obama had been president for five years, one of the defences for this from his aides and political allies was: oh, Obama was just about to fix this problem! And sure enough, he eventually was forced from the wave of criticism to make some limited reforms, but he did not go far enough to end all of the programs that were in violation of the law or the constitution of the United States. That too was an intentional choice: he could have certainly used the scandal to advocate for all of the changes that he had campaigned on, to deliver on all of his promises, but in those five years he had become president, he discovered something else, which is that there are benefits from having very powerful intelligence agencies, there are benefits from having these career bureaucrats on your side, using their spider web over government for your benefit.
[RELATED: Snowden Documents: NSA Worked to Track Bitcoin Users]
Imagine you are Barack Obama, and you realise –NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Friday, March 23, 2018 7:14 PM
Quote:Well, maybe that perspective works to explain how YOU work and how the USA works, but it doesn't explain how Russia works: The military has advised Congress that Russian hypersonic missiles could wipe the USA off the face of the earth and that there would be NO DEFENSE, not even a "dead man's" counterstrike, and yet Russia hasn't destroyed us and we're still here. China could unleash all-out financial and economic war and destroy the petrodollar by insisting that Saudi Arabia pay for oil in yuan or gold, and yet it hasn't done that either. How do you explain that?
Unless the perspective itself is wrong, and then NOTHING makes sense. - SIGNY
The test being if thingz make sens. If they do, the perspectiv iz useful. = JO
Quote:I said be specific, not *wave your hands and talk in generalities*. HOW could some other fearless leader "fix" the USA-problem? And are you saying that we're defenseless?
Why? What would happen if "someone else" [MOST LIKELY CHINA] took that position? Be specific.- SIGNY
I agree that China iz a bigger thret.
The leader coud deside that America iz a problem that he can fix. Or he coud see an oportunity for himself and grab it. you no - just like Putin did. - JO
Quote:Can't be done, there's such a thing as a mortgage contract. As long as the USA continues to enforce its own laws domestically ... which will continue to be the case provided that we don't sign onto more "free trade" pacts ... then the USA will continue to be a sovereign nation.
So? Don't let them "manage" you and you'll be alright.- SIGNY
Woud you mind if sum forin rich 20 y.o. punk showed up 1 day and kikt you out uv your house? 'My dad own bank dat hold you morgaj. New polisy: Pay off now or get out!' - JO
Quote:Well then you're opining about things that you know nothing about. Try this, or just search for shock therapy + Russia
OH, THEY TRIED! Don't you remember the "shock treatment" that was applied to Russia, which caused the GDP to drop 25% and the reduced the male lifespan by 10 years?- SIGNY
I do not. Tell us about it. - JO
Quote:http://geohistory.today/russia-shock-therapy/
Those advocating shock therapy tended to stress that quickness was the only way to prevent entrenched factions from taking advantage of the situation. They also had a general confidence that once market forces were introduced, institutions would reform or emerge to meet the new conditions. Iwasaki and Suzuki (2014) subdivide the shock therapists into “universal radicalism” and “conditional radicalism.” The former, represented by Murphy et al. (1992), de Melo et al. (1996), and Aslund (2007a), claimed that radical shock therapy ought to be applied universally to all post-Soviet countries. The latter was represented by Klaus (1993) and others who believed that shock therapy is preferable over gradualism as long as certain conditions are met (e.g. the government has the capacity to implement reforms and its citizens are open to capitalism).
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Why does it make any difference how much Hannity made?- SIGNY
Ask 6string. He wuz the wun hoo complained about it. - JO
No, what happend was this ...
Quote:The point that SIX was making was that Hannity isn't worth anything to SIX. It's just like you to take a snippet out of context and turn it into an argument, isn't it?
Herez your cheif Deep State story teller in action- JO
He's not the chief of anything. I don't watch FOX News and never have ... The Deep State was around long before Hannity was a thing - SIX
Quote:
Yanno, JO, when you stop obsessing about RUSSIA!!! you actually make some sense. For example, how can you say that we're an oligarchy controlled by the moneyed, and at the same time say that Putin is controlling us? - SIGNY
Kuz Putin iz an oligark. He got hiz money by taking over a nation. Cant blame sumwun for takingNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Friday, March 23, 2018 11:30 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Anyone who doesn't buy that there is are much more powerful people pulling the strings of the world behind the curtains has little to no imagination. That is a disability.
I'm sure there are people who only believe the Deep State is true because somebody like Hannity told them it's true. This is also a disability.
The mistake, the offense, is when people use The Deep State to explain something they can't otherwise explain and don't want to be bothered with the details. It's the same kind of lie a 5 year old tells. "Um, uh, The Jimmy Next Door did it." If you're stuck on thinking that most people (especially here) DON'T already know that rich and powerful people will try and bend things to their will, and often against the will and desires of other rich and powerful people, then you are a capital D Dunce.
People might as well say "Jedi" or "Airbenders."
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