450 posts IS a worse crime than wanting to kill us .
POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Friday, May 22, 2009 14:59
VIEWED: 29463
PAGE 33 of 46
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Originally posted by Hero:
Actually...thats kinda where the bar needs to be. Torturing a terrorist for information is NOT as bad as causing or attempting to cause the death of innocent people.
Seems our options include being better then they are...or being worse with death as the deciding factor. If avoiding death requires torture...we torture and are still better then them. The day may come when we have to be worse then them...and we all know that we can be worse then them very easily. We have vast fields and storehouses of 'worse' we could unleash at a moments notice but for our compassion and mercy.
A little water and discomfort is a mild price to pay for the continued existance of an entire people. If we were them...they would cease to exist in the fire of American fury. But we're not them...so instead the get water and mercy. Such is life.
Are you kidding me? Like the entire existence of 'your people' has ever been at stake here.
Let me ask you this, you say you are not racist, okay? But if 'they' do terrible stuff and 'you' do terrible stuff, what's to differentiate between you both, except for your race or nationality?
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Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Let me ask you this, you say you are not racist, okay? But if 'they' do terrible stuff and 'you' do terrible stuff, what's to differentiate between you both, except for your race or nationality?
'They' started it, and 'we' will end it.
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Let me ask you this, you say you are not racist, okay? But if 'they' do terrible stuff and 'you' do terrible stuff, what's to differentiate between you both, except for your race or nationality?
'They' started it, and 'we' will end it.
Lovely. Will we all be blown back to the stone age at the end, or will heaven prevail on earth?
In any case, I didn't ask what the outcome would be, I asked what the difference would be, if 'you' or 'we' acted as badly as 'they' do? Because if that isn't what the conflict is about - ie we behave better than they do - it comes down to -we are better than they are - and that's where it gets problematic.
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magonsdaughter,
No, it comes down to a sect of nut cases who want to control the world, or kill those they can't control , and us, who don't take kindly to having women forced into slavery, treated as cattle and all the other great benefits that comes w/ living under their brand of Sharia law.
How you continue to not get that, even after all that has gone on, and all that's been shown to you, really - in all honesty - leaves me numb.
I can't even take seriously your position for too long, or my brain just might solidify into lead , my head topple over and fall hard on the floor, with a loud THUNK! sound.
I ask you, what in the name of great Ceaser's ghost are you even THINKING about which would give you such a view ?
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No, it comes down to a sect of nut cases who want to control the world, or kill those they can't control
You mean the ones in Washington DC, right ?
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There is also no doubt that as an empire, you score much higher on the morality scale than the former USSR, but that aint saying much.
Citizen actually said it best, something along the lines of "better than a tinpot dictatorship" being a piss-poor rod to measure our own actions by.
-F
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AUraptor,
I could ask you the same thing, because your simple minded view of the complexities of the world stage is simply breathtaking.
Firstly, just because I don't condone torture doesn't mean that I support terrorist activity. I find that I have to say this a lot because some how rightwingers seem too dense to grasp this concept.
I do believe in the right of other countries to determine their own leaders and laws, even when I don't support those laws. However, when it comes to human rights abuses, I condemn them where I see them, friend or foe.
I think there is a hell of lot of inconsistency in the discourse of right . Iranians are bad because of the Sharia law, yet the country with the strictest Sharia law is one of US greatest allies - Saudi Arabia. Many so called friendly countries treat their citizens barbarically, yet the US doesn't rush to invade to save the citizens. The US makes decisions that are largely economic. Which is okay, it's just that there is a lot of dishonesty about it, that people like yourself have swallowed hook, line and sinker.
I don't believe two rights make a wrong. The shocking behaviour of terrorist groups, internationally condemned, does not mean the US need resort to their methods. Doesn't make sense to do so. What's the frakking point if you end up with a superpower that's as bad as those they oppose.
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Fremdfirma wrote:
The POINT of it all is that you cannot blame an entire belief system for the actions of individuals claiming to hold that belief unless you are willing to apply that broad brush to all of them - and you might bear in mind you happen to be discussing this with someone who has two metal pins in their ankle following an outright attempted murder by members of a local Christian congregation that was entirely religion-inspired.
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Very well said, Frem. And that is the crux of issues just like this one. Blaming an entire culture for the acts of a few individuals, or even a small group.
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Fremdfirma wrote:
Thursday, May 14, 2009 09:09
It ain't the belief systems, it's the people who use them as a vessel to gain power, or as an excuse for behavior that's not only inexcusable, but also contrary to the belief itself!
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Again, I agree. People who desire power often see religion as a path to acquiring that power, by leading a mass of their 'faithful' through lies and deceit.
As to interference in other nations affairs, I've stated before that I'm not a true isolationist, but I do have a very strong 'America First' policy. I fail to see why we should be involved anywhere overseas so long as we have people suffering here at home.
But, as always, that's just me.
Bad_karma
Great and Exalted Grand Pooba, International Brotherhood of Moonshiners, Rednecks, and Good Old Boys.
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Ain't just you, not by a longshot - I am all in favor of cutting foreign aid cause we damn well can't afford it, and some of the OTHER expenses on the budget make me tack spitting pissed, like multimillion dollar funding of foreign militaries.
(yes, I shit you not, there's a budget item for this, look it up)
Fuck that, let em buy their own damn guns and tanks, especially since in many cases like, say... AFGHANISTAN, for example, we've wound up staring down the barrels of weapons initially paid for with US Tax dollars!
Gee, that was a GREAT idea, who's was it, do tell, cause we got an opinion to express!
-F
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
'They' started it, and 'we' will end it.
They'd argue you started it.
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
No, it comes down to a sect of nut cases who want to control the world, or kill those they can't control...
Well, at least now you're starting to finally see the NeoCons for what they truly are!
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...and us, who don't take kindly to having women forced into slavery, treated as cattle...
Except, of course, that that is EXACTLY what conservatives want to do to women, at least as far as reproductive rights go.
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How you continue to not get that, even after all that has gone on, and all that's been shown to you, really - in all honesty - leaves me numb.
Maybe a few rounds of torture would remove your numbness.
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I can't even take seriously your position for too long, or my brain just might solidify into lead , my head topple over and fall hard on the floor, with a loud THUNK! sound.
DOH! - Too late!
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I ask you, what in the name of great Ceaser's ghost are you even THINKING about which would give you such a view ?
I could ask the same of you; what is it in your head that allows you to so enthusiastically endorse torture? What is it that lets you justify torturing people for your own little sick and twisted jollies? And that's really what it's all about, because you're sure as hell not getting any useful intel out of anyone that way.
Mike
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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