Real World Event Discussions
450 posts IS a worse crime than wanting to kill us .
POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Friday, May 22, 2009 14:59
VIEWED: 29463
PAGE 37 of 46
Sunday, May 17, 2009 1:16 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
In the past 150 yrs, exactly how many 'new lands' has the US conquered, taken over and incorporated into the nation?
Yes that's right Rap, when the evidence doesn't go your way, you try to make sure that that evidence is ignored. By 300 Ad the borders of the Roman Empire had been stable for over 200 years, so by your argument (presumably that the Mexican American war was over 150 years ago, so doesn't count), the Roman Empire, wasn't an Empire in 300AD, because their territory hadn't expanded in over 150 years. Really that argument isn't just stupid, it's paramount to a lie as well. It's more of the same from you, when you can't argue your case honestly, you become dishonest.
150 years ago was 1859, a hell of a lot of expansion was continuing at that time. One could argue that it includes the Civil war, and that was about regaining lost territory. At any rate, how long ago the US built it's territorial empire, says nothing of its current Imperial status. If it's last expansion was five hundred years ago, it would still be an Empire if it still held those territories.
Quote:
Anyone from GB has no room to talk about what the U.S. had done in the way of being an 'Empire'. It's absurd to even bring up the topic.
What an idiotic statement. America isn't an Empire because Britain was one once? I'm not sure whether I should be relieved, because you're so desperate to make an argument you've scratched through the bottom of the barrel and are currently into the dirt below, or feel sorry for you for the same reason. Is your rebuttal to America being an Empire really that there's been Empires in the past? That's just sad, and how appropriate for you to use the word absurd, your "argument" certainly is.
How much of Britain's empire remains intact? None, Britain isn't an Empire any longer. There's less room for a citizen of a current empire to talk about what a historical empire did, and it's certainly patently absurd to use that non-existent empire to legitimise (or even argue against the existence of) the actions of the US.
What does the historical existence of the British Empire have to do with America's own Empire building? It's absurd and idiotic to even bring up that subject.
I suppose being relieved and pitying you is the correct response. The best you can do to say the US isn't an Empire, is too say Britain was one once? That proves little, beyond that you've lost the argument, and can't admit it. Frankly your attempts at a rebuttal are completely off topic, and rather pathetic.
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Sunday, May 17, 2009 1:41 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
kwickie,
I'm not wrong, not even in the tiniest bit. Why isn't Canada, Mexico or even simply Cuba a part of the U.S. if we're such an 'Imperial' nation? It's a complete load of anti-American bull shit that gets repeated so many damn times, that mouth breathers like you( and sadly, too many on this board ) simply accept it as fact. But because someone dares interject anything different than the " everyone thinks it, so it must be true " mentality of this place, your first reaction is to jump on that person an start the insults. If that's the sort of B.S. you feel you need to get you through your pathetic excuse of a life, then have at it. It's clear you and your sort aren't capable of dealing in facts.
Yet you're the only one who hasn't provided any facts, and the best argument so far has been to try and ignore facts that have already been presented. What you claim other people are doing, is clearly only true of yourself. As usual you claim other people can't deal with facts, while it's only you who is ignoring reality. Why isn't Mexico a province of the US? Half of it's historical territory is, as I've shown and you've only tried to ignore. Cuba isn't part of the US? No, it was a client state that Congress decided not to incorporate (but how that dismisses the corporation of Polynesia and others, is something only your simplistic compartmentalised propagandist mind could ever answer). But the violent and childish reaction to Cuba's revolution, deposing the American puppet government in Cuba, is rather telling. A situation that continues to this day. And clearly since it upsets you so much I think I should repeat it, Canada isn't under US control, because they kicked your arse when you tried.
The United States isn't an Empire because it doesn't control every territory in the whole world? Wow, that's perhaps the stupidest argument I've ever heard. So Britain wasn't an Empire because it didn't control Algiers, or Afghanistan. Rome wasn't an Empire because it didn't control India. So your rebuttal for America being an empire, is that there is no such thing as empires in the history of the world? Nice.
I think the fact that rather than present arguments or facts as to why America isn't an empire, you ignore arguments and facts that say it is, and just personally insult anyone who presents those arguments and facts, rather disproves your position, and says a great deal about yourself.
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Sunday, May 17, 2009 2:02 PM
citizen, why do I threaten your belief system so much ? You are so overtly obsessed w/ attacking every minute detail of my post, particularly on the most mundane and pointless threads.
The US isn't, nor has been, an Empire. That's not to say there were parts of its history there wasn't SOME expansion, but 2 world wars and a few more skirmishes have shown that the U.S. isn't in the business of taking places over and colonizing them like GB did w/ India, Taiwan and too many on the list.
Hell, we let you have the Falkland Islands, when we easily could have enacted the Monroe Doctrine. So stop your whining, PLEASE.
There really is no debate here. It's pointless to even have discussed it so far. All you're doing is projecting what disgust and hatred you have for your own damn self and directing it towards the U.S. in some sad, pathetic display of petty jealousy.
Dude, just get over this anti-US hatred you have. It serves no purpose, and to the contrary, does you far more harm than good. In the next 10-20 yrs, Europe will be looking towards the U.S. to save it, so don't go biting the hand that'll likely save your ass.
Again.
Have fun pounding away on the keyboard. I'm off this thread.
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Sunday, May 17, 2009 3:07 PM
Quote:In the modern definition of empire:
The US isn't, nor has been, an Empire.-rappy
Quote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neocolonialism
Writings within the theoretical framework of neocolonialism argue that existing or past international economic arrangements created by former colonial powers were or are used to maintain control of their former colonies and dependencies after the colonial independence movements of the post World War II period. The term Neocolonialism can combine a critique of current actual colonialism (where some states continue administrating foreign territories and their populations in violation of United Nations resolutions[1]) and a critique of modern capitalist businesses involvement in nations which were former colonies. Critics adherent to neocolonialism contend that private, foreign business companies continue to exploit the resources of post-colonial states, and that this economic control inherent to neocolonialism is akin to the classical, European colonialism practiced from the 16th to the 20th centuries.
If we're not an empire, why do we have troops stationed in every part of the world?
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Sunday, May 17, 2009 3:29 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Why isn't Canada, Mexico or even simply Cuba a part of the U.S. if we're such an 'Imperial' nation?
1) I take it you've never heard of Guantanamo Bay Naval Base? Quite simply, part of Cuba IS part of the American Empire. It was taken through war.
2) Great swaths of Mexican land were also taken through war.
So you're saying that because we GOT the land through war, and KEPT the land through war, but not in the last 5 years, that we're not an empire, and never have been?
Wow, you are one deluded little monkey.
Mike
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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Sunday, May 17, 2009 3:33 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
citizen, why do I threaten your belief system so much ? You are so overtly obsessed w/ attacking every minute detail of my post, particularly on the most mundane and pointless threads.
My belief system? Clearly (from your violent, childish and off topic reactions) it's your belief system that is being threatened. Really I don't understand this preoccupation you have with assigning your actions to others.
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
The US isn't, nor has been, an Empire.
Except it has all the hallmarks of one, and your best defence of your position is to stick your fingers in your ears, and say "nuhuh, is not" then become personally insulting. The fact that I've basically proven my case, and your only response is an ad hominen disproves your assertion. I have no doubt you're incapable of realising or accepting that.
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
That's not to say there were parts of its history there wasn't SOME expansion, but 2 world wars and a few more skirmishes have shown that the U.S. isn't in the business of taking places over and colonizing them like GB did w/ India, Taiwan and too many on the list.
Britain defeated Napoleons France, and yet France remained independent. Britain defeated Germany in those same World wars, yet Germany remains independent. Using your own criteria that proves Britain was never an Empire. Since Britain was an Empire, clearly your argument, and your criteria are wrong. Your inability to accept or grasp that, is really unimportant.
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Hell, we let you have the Falkland Islands, when we easily could have enacted the Monroe Doctrine. So stop your whining, PLEASE.
Since Britain renewed sovereignty of those Islands after the Argentinian settlement was destroyed by America in a display of American Imperial Largess, and since America didn't have the capability to contend Britain's claim at the time I'll take your ridiculous and insubstantial assertion with the contempt it deserves. Really you're the only one whining "American isn't an empire cause, cause, cause I say so, boo hoo", and it would be real nice if you'd stop.
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
There really is no debate here. It's pointless to even have discussed it so far.
Yes, you're absolutely right. You were proven wrong sometime ago. Your desperate need to continue to jabber on impotently, to ignore facts and reality is as pointless as it is constant.
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
All you're doing is projecting what disgust and hatred you have for your own damn self and directing it towards the U.S. in some sad, pathetic display of petty jealousy.
And there, when the facts disprove you, when you're argument collapses, you run back to your standard tactic of being personally insulting, and hoping to dismiss the argument by attacking the one making it. If my statements were merely the fabrication of jealousy, then they'd be easy to dismiss without blathering on impotently about my supposed hatred of the US. Clearly since your only avenue is to make these claims about me, and to ignore my argument in entirety, you have proven you can't attack my argument. To put it more succinctly, by making these accusations, you disprove their validity, it really is fun to watch.
Lastly you need to remember that not everyone is like you. Just because you're a Jingoistic Imperialistic Nationalist, doesn't mean I am. Just because you are enraged by people not being under your boot, doesn't mean I'm jealous of American expansion.
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Dude, just get over this anti-US hatred you have. It serves no purpose, and to the contrary, does you far more harm than good. In the next 10-20 yrs, Europe will be looking towards the U.S. to save it, so don't go biting the hand that'll likely save your ass.
Again.
I'm not displaying US hatred (though wouldn't "anti-US hatred", be hatred of anti-US sentim
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Sunday, May 17, 2009 3:48 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
citizen, why do I threaten your belief system so much ? You are so overtly obsessed w/ attacking every minute detail of my post, particularly on the most mundane and pointless threads.
Rappy, why do I threaten your belief system so much? You are so obsessed with attacking every minute detail of every post I make, particularly in the most mundane and pointless ways.
Quote:
The US isn't, nor has been, an Empire. That's not to say there were parts of its history there wasn't SOME expansion, but 2 world wars and a few more skirmishes have shown that the U.S. isn't in the business of taking places over and colonizing them like GB did w/ India, Taiwan and too many on the list.
Really? So we didn't expand our area through those "few skirmishes"? We didn't expand our influence and our military presence in parts of the world where we really had no business interfering? Bases in Taiwan, Japan, Korea, the Philippines, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Crete, Cyprus, Cuba, Guam, and a multitude of other places would seem to put the lie to your myth that we're not expansionist or controlling, some of the earmarks of Empire. Did we not expand our area just on the North American continent with wars with the French, British, Spanish, and others?
Quote:
Hell, we let you have the Falkland Islands, when we easily could have enacted the Monroe Doctrine. So stop your whining, PLEASE.
You mean the unilateral empire-building Monroe Doctrine, by which the U.S. saw fit to grab land from other nations in an all-out effort to spread its empire all the way to the Pacific ocean, and everyone else be damned? THAT Monroe Doctrine?
Quote:
There really is no debate here. It's pointless to even have discussed it so far.
Yes, it's pointless for you to try to argue that America is not and never has been an empire. Yet here you are, still trying to sell that line of bullshit.
Quote:
Dude, just get over this anti-US hatred you have. It serves no purpose, and to the contrary, does you far more harm than good. In the next 10-20 yrs, Europe will be looking towards the U.S. to save it, so don't go biting the hand that'll likely save your ass.
Dude, just get over your hatred of anyone who would DARE to criticize the U.S., ever. It serves no purpose, and only alienates those who actually might try to help you one day. In the next 10-20 years, the U.S. will be looking to Europe to save our nation, so don't go biting the hand you'll need to save your ass. Hell, without the help of so many other nations, the U.S. would have gotten its ass whipped in Afghanistan and Iraq a long time ago.
Quote:
Have fun pounding away on the keyboard. I'm off this thread.
I'm betting I can make a liar out of you yet again. Go ahead - stay off this thread and prove me wrong.
Mike
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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Sunday, May 17, 2009 9:55 PM
Quote:I see, so irrational disagreement with the president makes you a racist. Good to know.
Originally posted by rue:
"I can be against Obama's policies and NOT be a racist." But until you can elucidate a rational reason WHY, it gets left to others to speculate their own reasons. And if, like the repubicans in congress, you are opposed to EVERYTHING, such blanket opposition comes across as simply racist. Because you aren't reacting to issues, but to the president.
Quote:It’s actually quite simple. Some people have points of view that differ from yours on the issue of marriage.
Originally posted by rue:
"I can be against homosexual marriage and NOT be a homophobe." I don't see how, unless you independently are a religious zealot.
Quote:Open border proponents. And I have seen the open border argument on this board before. So it is not grandstanding.
Originally posted by rue:
"I can be against un-checked illegal immigration and NOT be a racist/xenophobe." But who is FOR un-checked illegal immigration ? Not Obama, not the party, not me. So this position is just so much grandstanding.
Quote:So because you failed to support the Invasion of Iraq, you supported Saddam Hussein’s ruthless regime.
Originally posted by rue:
"I can be against Muslim Jihadism and NOT be a genocidal murderer. etc. etc. etc..." But until you disavow the statements of people like Rap, that position will be plastered to you. Remember, 'silence is consent'.
So rue, you are racist because of your irrational disagreement a US president and you are supporter of genocide because of your implied support for the Ba’ath in Iraq. This according to your own opinion, not mine.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Sunday, May 17, 2009 9:59 PM
Quote:Really? And of course there’s nothing Bullshit about trying to equate a handful of anti-abortion nuts with Hezbollah.
Originally posted by rue:
And you call yourself a lawyer ? Even as pure bullshit, that was pretty lame.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Sunday, May 17, 2009 10:17 PM
Quote:I think you are misinterpreting some things. First, part of the reason why the bombs were dropped at the end of WWII is because the casualties for invading Japan were assessed to be in the millions. As many as 1 to 2 million US casualties and many millions of Japanese. The bombs as abhorrent as they were, resulted in only about 200,000 casualties, making them far less abhorrent the alternative. Given the same circumstances most reasonable people, even today, would choose 200,000 casualties over many millions. And nuclear technology is banned. It is classified as “restricted,” and requires special privileges regardless of your pay grade or clearance. It’s proliferation is banned by international treaty. And attempts to dissuade its development by other nations, like Iran and North Korea, is a further a part of the gravity with which the restrictions on nuclear technology are taken.
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
I don't think your analogy is a good one. Slavery and segregation have been banned. You still have a stockpile of nuclear weapons. The mind set around use of nuclear weapons hasn't really changed at all. Most people would consider it to have been necessary to drop the bomb to end WW2, and that the US has the right to own, and if necessary use, nuclear weapons in similar circumstances. On the other hand, most people find slavery abhorrent.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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