What are your least favorite Firefly moments?

POSTED BY: Okkay
UPDATED: Saturday, February 14, 2004 16:39
VIEWED: 28282
PAGE 1 of 2

1 2 NEXT PAGE LAST PAGE

OKKAY

Friday, January 30, 2004 4:17 PM

This is sort of a weird question, I know, but I was wondering if you guys had any least favorite moments. Although this show is as close to perfect as there ever was, there are still some moments that bug me every time I watch it.

One reason that The Message has always bugged me was that the whole episode could have been resolved peacefully if Mal just *explained* to Tracey that their plan wasn't to turn him over to the cop. He didn't have to keep the plan secret, but he did, there was a big misunderstanding, and bad things happened because of it, and Tracey died. Yes, the episode needed Tracy to die, but they way it happened just bugs me every time.

Another time Mal caused an understanding by not explaining himself was in Bushwhacked, when they're caught by the Alliance and he asks Simon to get River, Simon gets mad because he thinks Mal's selling them out. Why couldn't have Mal just said "Simon, get your sister, we're going to hide you guys."?

Just little things that bug me. So I wondered if other people had similar moments that they either didn't like or didn't get.

GHOULMAN

Friday, January 30, 2004 4:22 PM

When some jerk wrote a crappy pseudo intellectual tirade accusing my fav show of having icky and evil subtext. Oh wait... you mean on the show.

SEVENPERCENT

Friday, January 30, 2004 4:30 PM

I see your point but I personally would have to disagree- While it would be easy for Mal to just 'stop and explain,' he shouldnt have to- He gives the orders and expects the others to do what he says, not have a debate- People in charge rely on their underlings to trust them (think of other shows you have seen- do those Captains/whatever stop to always explain? I just finished B5 s4, and Sheridan almost never reveals his hand like that) -
As for a least fav. moment, it would to me be the 'magic door' blooper in Trash - When Mal and Saff escape through a door, it has a different handle when the feds try to go through that same door- Most bloopers pass me by unnoticed, but that one eats at me for some reason-

------------------------------------------
He looked bigger when I couldn't see him.

ENDERSPAWN

Friday, January 30, 2004 4:39 PM

Mal isn't that kind of guy. He's too internalized. If Tim Minear writes him that way then it's one of his substantial character flaws...and one of his coolest traits. Does batman explain himself? Heeeeellll no!

Plus that way we have no idea what's going to happen.

My least favorite moments...

1) The weirdly edited Inara bathing scene in the final version of the pilot...what happened guys? Big technical weirdness. That was more of a glitch then bad Firefly though.

2) There are the eps of the show that are good instead of great...Safe, Heart of Gold, Bushwacked, Message, Train Job. All of these have great scenes but the ratio to kind of "meh" scenes is higher. These are scenes like Jayne tricking Simon into a spacesuit to board the derelict...it's very necessary, and it does its job, but I don't enjoy it nearly as much as, say the entirety of the pilot. Or Our Mrs. Reynolds, or especially Out of Gas, which I finally watched all the way through. That opening scene BLOWS MY FREAKING MIND!!

Anyways, the only other thing I can think of is that when Serenity makes her "full burn" it doesn't look as flashy and cool as we've come to expect from sci-fi. I like the smoke and glowing beams of light coming from her behind but something about the way she leaves lacks that little something. I do firmly believe that was the point. She's not entering Hyperspace. She's not going warp. She just made a huge explosion and she's travelling very fast.

SHINY

Friday, January 30, 2004 4:55 PM

Regarding the Message, if you read the script, they originally had Mal/Book about to try to explain things to Tracey when he interrupts them and threatens them with the gun. It makes Mal come off as a little less unreasonable, but I suspect it reduced the tension because it lets the viewer in on the fact that they weren't planning to hand Tracey over to the Feds.

RIVER
Purple elephants are flying.
MAL
Good. Thanks for the update.

HERO

Friday, January 30, 2004 4:57 PM

My least favorite moment comes at the end of 'Objects in Space' when I go to view the next episode...only there is no next episode.

Also I've never been particulary happy with the cheesy landspeeder and laser gun in 'Heart of Gold'. I think they could have done better in the props department with those two items.

I would have given him a sleeker weapon and instead of a landspeeder, some kind of vtol/personal helicopter thingy (there's plenty of 'concept' personal flyers on the net). Then he's runnin, gets in, start it up, takes off, looks down and there's Mal who shoots right through the fuel tank making it explode. Yup, it could have been better.

And what was that thing River was eating in 'The Message'. Looked like a combination of a mace and cotten candy. They just did it to work in the line about it being "problematic". Being so smart it could have been just as funny to show her having trouble with something simple like chopstiks, or eating peas with a fork, or peanut butter, or maybe getting a suger high (that would have been funny).

H

BROWNCOAT1

Friday, January 30, 2004 5:00 PM

My least favorite moment.....when an episode ends, and when Fox cancelled it.

Oh you meant in the show itself....oh.

My least favorite moment would have to be in Jaynestown when they keep cutting to the characters and their comments when the mudder is singing the Hero of Canton. I kept missing parts and it got just a bit irritating. I know it was necessary for the plot and scene, just a pet peeve like talking in the movie theatre. Special Hell and all that.

As to Mal explaining why he does things or letting everyone in on his plans, that is the problem w/ command. The second you start informing everyone what you are doing, then everyone will put in their two cents, questions, and suggestions. You have a debate on your hands then and at times like in "The Message", they simply did not have time to talk things over. I guess it boils down to he is the captain and he always does what is best for everyone concerned.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

SAFFY

Friday, January 30, 2004 5:00 PM

I loved the thing River was eating in "The Message"!

Anyway, Mal losing his ear. 'Nuff said. It was like "Reservoir Dogs" all over again.

OKKAY

Friday, January 30, 2004 5:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Enderspawn:
Mal isn't that kind of guy. He's too internalized. If Tim Minear writes him that way then it's one of his substantial character flaws...and one of his coolest traits. Does batman explain himself? Heeeeellll no!

I agree that Mal was probably written with that particular character trait, and I can understand him not explaining his actions in Bushwhacked, but in The Message, Tracey has a gun pointed at Wash and Kaylee. I'm thinking those are extreme circumstances where the story just feels stupid by not having Mal explain himself. One line: "Tracey, we're not going to turn you in", would have been enough to take care of the situation and not get his crew killed.

Batman doesn't explain himself, but I'm sure if one of his friends had another of his friends at gunpoint, he would explain himself so no one would die.

But that's just my opinion.

OKKAY

Friday, January 30, 2004 5:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
And what was that thing River was eating in 'The Message'. Looked like a combination of a mace and cotten candy. They just did it to work in the line about it being "problematic". Being so smart it could have been just as funny to show her having trouble with something simple like chopstiks, or eating peas with a fork, or peanut butter, or maybe getting a suger high (that would have been funny).

I think the humor lies in the fact that we as an audience can't really figure out how to eat that thing (ice planet I think they called it) either. It's like in Demolition Man with the 3 shells.

Plus in this future, I'm sure everyone knows how to eat with chopsticks. River is crazy, but she wouldn't forget how to do that.

BARNEYT

Friday, January 30, 2004 5:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Okkay:
[B
I agree that Mal was probably written with that particular character trait, and I can understand him not explaining his actions in Bushwhacked, but in The Message, Tracey has a gun pointed at Wash and Kaylee. I'm thinking those are extreme circumstances where the story just feels stupid by not having Mal explain himself. One line: "Tracey, we're not going to turn you in", would have been enough to take care of the situation and not get his crew killed.

Batman doesn't explain himself, but I'm sure if one of his friends had another of his friends at gunpoint, he would explain himself so no one would die.

But that's just my opinion.

This is the way I thought about it when I saw the episode first, but on later viewings I realised that it does work as is - one thing that is clear about Mal is that if you threaten his crew, he doesn't give an inch - and so once Tracey shot Wash that was it, Mal's sole concern was stopping Tracey. Yeah, it would have been better for Tracey if Mal wasn't so obsessed with the safety of his crew - but he is. Tracey was trying to use that to his advantage and it backfired.

Anyway, back to the point - my least favourite moment is the end of the Heart of Gold where Nandi is shot. I know there had to be a reason why she wasn't around to finish her conversation with Mal about Inara's feelings and all that - but this was pure adventure serial cliche, and it just annoys me!

---
"I think the right place to start is to say, fair is fair. This is who we are. These are our numbers." Mr Willis of Ohio - The West Wing

ARIYA

Friday, January 30, 2004 5:13 PM

Regarding The Meassage, and Mal not explaining things to Tracey: I had considered this as well, and watched the episode again to try and figure out what was going on there. In truth, Book has the idea for a plan, and doesn't even have a chance to tell Mal when Tracey freaks out. Book actually tries to talk with Tracey, but he screams at him and wigs.
They attempted to communicate, but in a high stress situation like that, and with Tracey unwilling to listen I have absolutely no problem seeing that as realistic.

Ariya

HKCAVALIER

Friday, January 30, 2004 5:18 PM

About Mal not explaining things: have you ever been really, really mad? Not a time when you much feel like explaining things is it?

Couple moments come to mind: the scene in Trash where Saffron is introduced to the crew kinda ruins the whole episode for me. There is no way in hell that Mal would collude with Crazy Girl after she sent his crew to almost certain death in OMR. He can forgive Patience shooting him but no grief visitted upon his crew is ever forgotten (Jayne is a member of his crew, so he gets a pass as long as Mal can see a soul swimming around in that murk). In OMR Saffron comes across as something of a genius, but she would have to be so, so very stupid to think that Mal would go in with her on that deal. Of course, when I first saw the episode I didn't know that they were playing her so I was all, "WTF? Oh this is LAME!" Saffron was genuinely dagerous in OMR, but here she comes off like a gorram "wacky character." "That Saffron...what will she do next?"

And moment #2 in an otherwise excellent episode is Nandi getting shot in Heart of Gold. It's the one time that Firefly dips unselfconciously into the vast wasteland of adventure series cliches and kills off the girl after our hero has sex with her (back in the day there was no such thing as a story arc, so if Kirk got something going with an alien girl we had to wrap things up within the hour--no loose ends).

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

LOADANDMAKEREADY

Friday, January 30, 2004 5:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Okkay:
Another time Mal caused an understanding by not explaining himself was in Bushwhacked, when they're caught by the Alliance and he asks Simon to get River, Simon gets mad because he thinks Mal's selling them out. Why couldn't have Mal just said "Simon, get your sister, we're going to hide you guys."?

Just little things that bug me. So I wondered if other people had similar moments that they either didn't like or didn't get.

I agree, in real life, it would be all too easy to lose control of the situation. If I were in his place, I would make a quick "quiet" gesture, and say, "I've got a plan."

But this is fiction, and would diminish the drama ... especially just before a commercial.

ABOVE ALL ELSE, KYFHO!

STATIC

Friday, January 30, 2004 5:39 PM

Okay, I can offer my .02 on this. . .

I'm not currently the commander of my company, but I've been in leadership positions, and I've done so in combat, so I can say that when bombs are landing on and around you, and you're the boss, you don't have time to explain your plan. You just tell folks what to do. Everyone else on the crew knew they could trust Mal, and for goodness sake, Tracey SHOULD have known he could, because he was IN combat with Mal. Tracey panicked because he knew the whole time that he was wrong.

"The Message" tears my guts out every time I see it, because I've seen too many kids fade out in the same manner that Tracey did. . .lying there knowing that they're on the way out. . .expressing their regrets. . .you never get used to that. I feel sorry for any man or woman that COULD get used to that.

Just my thoughts.

Oh yeah. . .and I get so tired of seeing Simon grab River by the wrists. I mean, when she has a weapon, or some other means of hurting herself. . .that's one thing. But in "Shindig" when River entered, right before her 'Badger speech'. . .Simon tries to usher her quietly away, and when she resists, he grabs her wrists. That drives me NUTS!

==================================================
"Wash. . .we got some local color happening. A grand entrance would not go amiss."

MANIACNUMBERONE

Friday, January 30, 2004 5:50 PM

My least favorite Firefly moment was not an actual moment on an episode, but rather a sense I got while watching the commentaries. Alan Tudyk was talking, I believe during the WS one, about when they were shooting HOG and how when the cast were all walking in a line, they were all very very sad because they knew it was the last show they were gonna do.

FIRELILY

Friday, January 30, 2004 10:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Enderspawn:
1) The weirdly edited Inara bathing scene in the final version of the pilot...what happened guys? Big technical weirdness. That was more of a glitch then bad Firefly though.

When I first saw this, I also thought it was odd, but I figured it was done on purpose. The guy says later "you must play with time so that the pleasure passes quickly", or something along those lines. My first interpretation (this was before I had had a chance to watch further episodes) was that Inara really was playing with time, and the "weird editing" was evidence of it (kinda like a "glitch in the matrix" or something). After watching nearly the whole series now, I don't think Inara is either physically or morally capable of really doing that. I also don't like to think that it was merely editing problems as that would be waaaay too obvious during the editing process. So as long as it really isn't just an editing mistake, I think it has something to do with perception/altering of time.

SLAYER730

Friday, January 30, 2004 11:03 PM

My least favorite Firefly moment would have to be Jubel Early threatening to rape Kaylee. I think it was not only offensive, but completely unnecessary.

Why would a bounty hunter even suggest such a thing? If it is so that the audience knows that he is evil and means business, I think there could have been a better way to do it.

As it stood, it just came across as excessively violent and weird.

Oh yeah, and when Mal sleeps with Nandi: only because I love Mal and he made Inara cry...meanie!

***Never judge a book by its movie***

FORTUNATUS

Saturday, January 31, 2004 5:33 AM

My absolute least favorite bit occurs in Our Mrs. Reynolds. Saffron has married Mal and is aboard Serenity doing her innocent act. Then, the ship passes the guys who fry crews and steal their ships. These guys talk about whether or not Serenity's worth taking, and decide to steal her. Then, later on, it turns out that Saffron was working with them?! Why the heck would they bicker over stealing Serenity if Saffron had already boarded her with the purpose of guiding her into the ship-frying net? That's bugged me ever since the first time it was aired.

_______________
"Yep. That's a cow fetus."

TALONPEST

Saturday, January 31, 2004 6:18 AM

My least favorite moment was in Heart of Gold, but not when Nandi gets shot- it's when Mal chases down the hovercraft thingie on a horse. The least they could have done was to have the hovercraft be damaged and spewing smoke as an excuse for a horse that can do what, 30mph? catching up to it. Also the effect was a little weak when Burgis shot at Mal on the horse before running out of batteries.

LTNOWIS

Saturday, January 31, 2004 7:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fortunatus:
My absolute least favorite bit occurs in Our Mrs. Reynolds. Saffron has married Mal and is aboard Serenity doing her innocent act. Then, the ship passes the guys who fry crews and steal their ships. These guys talk about whether or not Serenity's worth taking, and decide to steal her. Then, later on, it turns out that Saffron was working with them?! Why the heck would they bicker over stealing Serenity if Saffron had already boarded her with the purpose of guiding her into the ship-frying net? That's bugged me ever since the first time it was aired.

Well Saffron would just board the first ship she came across and guide it to the pirates she's loosely associated with. Once it passes through the net, however, they still have to go through all the work of rewiring the ship, throwing out corpses, selling/using it, etc., which they wouldn't be willing to do for your average ultra-crappy starship.

NOOCYTE

Saturday, January 31, 2004 7:57 AM

One pet peeve moment:
In "Bushwacked," when Mal and Zoe are going into the derelict for the first time, Mal says, "entering adjoining airlock." Can't say as I can rightly picture Mal saying "adjoining" as a rule. Sounds like residual Sigh Figh speak (don't flame me; I'm a die-hard SF [no, not 'die, hard SF'] fan), as writers nestled into the 'verse.

Not a big bug, but it does itch some every time I see it.

Keep flyin'

Department of Redundancy Department

DRAKON

Saturday, January 31, 2004 10:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Okkay:
One reason that The Message has always bugged me was that the whole episode could have been resolved peacefully if Mal just *explained* to Tracey that their plan wasn't to turn him over to the cop. He didn't have to keep the plan secret, but he did, there was a big misunderstanding, and bad things happened because of it, and Tracey died. Yes, the episode needed Tracy to die, but they way it happened just bugs me every time.

While these are good hits, but I have to speak in Mal's defense. A firefight is not the time or place for a civilized debate. You either trust your commanding officer or you don't.

The Captain may know things and reasons why your plan won't work, or is too risky, and simply is not at liberty to say at that moment, or you got rogue federal lawmen blowing holes in your ship. Either way, Captains are not in the habit, nor can they get in the habit of, explaining each and every order they give.

Without a hierarchal command structures, a military unit cannot function as a team, but becomes more a mob, easy to pick off and kill.

What got Tracy killed was his lack of trust in Mal, (and possibly Book). Granted, Mal has to think of the ship and his crew first, and Tracy would naturally be a secondary consideration. But still, as Captain, it is the Captain's call. And Captains cannot have that kind of insubordination especially with federal agents shooting at them.

In a way, Tracy was tested, and failed miserably. Military life does not require unquestioned obeidence, but it does require respect and trust in one's commanding officer, and the maturity to recognize when is, and is not, a good time to question the Captain's authority, or his tactics.

Tracy killed himself. Mal just held the bullet for a while.

"Wash, where is my damn spaceship?"

DRAKON

Saturday, January 31, 2004 10:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by slayer730:
My least favorite Firefly moment would have to be Jubel Early threatening to rape Kaylee. I think it was not only offensive, but completely unnecessary.

Would agree here. That is my least favorite. And one of the reasons why I think Jubal is space trash, stuck on the bottom of the next ship that passed by.

Now, as far as drama goes, it does work. And remember, Jubal is a bit of a sick bastard to begin with, but also he needs her to be quiet and still. Scaring her nearly to death is an effective tactic at ensuring her cooperation.

"Wash, where is my damn spaceship?"

RONALDRAYGUN

Saturday, January 31, 2004 11:17 AM

The only thing that bugs me is the use of present day weapons. 500 years in the future and they still use .45's? I wouldn't think that it would have cost too much to fancify the weapons like they did with Mals.

Yep. That went well.

STATIC

Saturday, January 31, 2004 3:24 PM

My theory on the firearms situation is this. . .

You notice the Federal Marshals, the Alliance troops, those guys, they carry the cool, futuristic-type guns. . .it's mostly on the frontier worlds that you see the 'older' weapons. . .the ones from OUR era.

The way I see it is. . .a good old slug-thrower will never be obsolete. It's suggested in the show that laser weapons, while powerful, are impractical on the frontier because of the power requirements ('check battery'). Slug throwers are cheap, easy to repair, and it's easy to make your own ammo as well. It might not cost that much to 'fancify' the weapons, but I imagine the question they asked was, "why pay for it at all, when the differences wouldn't be signifigant?"

==================================================
"Wash. . .we got some local color happening. A grand entrance would not go amiss."

SAINT JAYNE

Saturday, January 31, 2004 5:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Drakon:
I have to speak in Mal's defense. A firefight is not the time or place for a civilized debate. You either trust your commanding officer or you don't.

I agree Mal could have handled this better, but I don't dislike the scene. I really liked the parallel with Bushwhacked where Simon confronts Mal about leaving his sister in the open. Even Jayne and Book chime in. Different people, different choices.

STEVE580

Saturday, January 31, 2004 5:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RonaldRaygun:
The only thing that bugs me is the use of present day weapons. 500 years in the future and they still use .45's? I wouldn't think that it would have cost too much to fancify the weapons like they did with Mals.

Remember the Ariel scene, when the Blue Hands were in pursuit, and they couldn't open the door 'cause all they had was that damned futuristic gun?

High-tech weapons do exist; but a piece of metal in your torso'll kill you just as much.

I liked the Inara bathing scene alright; though at first I thought it was a glitch with my DVD player.

Anyway, my least favorite part? Uh - when Book interupts Simon and Kaylee in OiS. What a bastard.

Also, in Heart of Gold. The whole epsiode.

One thing about Joss, he seems to greatly overestimate the speed of horses; or perhaps, underestimate the speed of everything else. There was another scene of his (besides the hovercraft one) where the animel was too damn quic. In BtVS, near the end of season 5, a group of horses caught up with an RV, going full speed down an empty road. He tried to make it seem beleiveable, by throwing in an "I can't beleive how slow this RV is" comment...but it was doing atleast 55.

I liked that laser gun, though.
-Steve

STEVE580

Saturday, January 31, 2004 5:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RonaldRaygun:
The only thing that bugs me is the use of present day weapons. 500 years in the future and they still use .45's? I wouldn't think that it would have cost too much to fancify the weapons like they did with Mals.

Remember the Ariel scene, when the Blue Hands were in pursuit, and they couldn't open the door 'cause all they had was that damned futuristic gun?

High-tech weapons do exist; but a piece of metal in your torso'll kill you just as much.

I liked the Inara bathing scene alright; though at first I thought it was a glitch with my DVD player.

Anyway, my least favorite part? Uh - when Book interupts Simon and Kaylee in OiS. What a bastard.

Also, in Heart of Gold. The whole epsiode.

One thing about Joss, he seems to greatly overestimate the speed of horses; or perhaps, underestimate the speed of everything else. There was another scene of his (besides the hovercraft one) where the animel was too damn quic. In BtVS, near the end of season 5, a group of horses caught up with an RV, going full speed down an empty road. He tried to make it seem beleiveable, by throwing in an "I can't beleive how slow this RV is" comment...but it was doing atleast 55.

I liked that laser gun, though.
-Steve

KAYTHRYN

Saturday, January 31, 2004 6:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Okkay:
One reason that The Message has always bugged me was that the whole episode could have been resolved peacefully if Mal just *explained* to Tracey that their plan wasn't to turn him over to the cop. He didn't have to keep the plan secret, but he did, there was a big misunderstanding, and bad things happened because of it, and Tracey died. Yes, the episode needed Tracy to die, but they way it happened just bugs me every time.

The Message has to be my favorite episode of all and here’s why this scene worked for me.

When Tracey first came in and Book and Mal were talking, they didn’t have the plan all talked out to every last detail. Both being men with obvious leadership training and military knowledge they didn’t have to spell out exactly what they were thinking, the other man just caught on. When Tracey turned a gun on our crew Book stepped forward and tried to explain the plan, but the gun was quickly turned on him and he was told to “shut it”. Now it doesn’t matter what anyone might have said. Tracey wouldn’t believe it. It would of all been an excuse, a lie, to get Kaylee back before he was handed over to the feds and killed for those fancy organs he was carrying.

Since Tracey was willing to lie and put Serenity and her crew in danger, it seems fitting that he would believe them capable of doing the same to him.

-------------------------------------
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
Aristotle

AMANDA4U

Saturday, January 31, 2004 6:46 PM

Ok, you guys, did any of you watch those epidodes with the commentary on? With the pilot episode, Inara bathing was artistic. That's just Joss doing his directing thing, to not let the camera work be boring, steady shots like almost every generic cookie cutter tv show. He wanted to stand out. Like in another Joss directed episode, OiS, when River is describing Early to Early, we see the fragements of his maddness, where he is fine one minute, then laughing insane, then back to noraml. He also did that kind of work with Inara in the pilot, when she had "finished up" with that young Alliance guy on Persephone, and they were talking about Shinon. I think he was trying to express their inner feelings about what was being said.
And with the OMR and Trash line. Yes, Saffron did try to kill them, and Malcom let her go. It is a lot like Patience on Whitefall. He went back to her after she shot him, because he needed the money. Just like he teamed up with Saffron again, this time with a plan if and when she betrayed him, so he wouldn't have to pull any more "wabbley-headed doll capers". He does it for the money, but he always has a backup plan waiting.
And with The Message, Book and Mal were talking with their eyes. They were telling each other without words what the plan was going to be, but Tracey didn't get it. Heck, I think even Jayne got a little of the plan, so that doesn't say much of Tracey. He even called them saps. Now the first bullet that they shot him with, that could have mabey been fixed, but after the name callin' and taking Kallie hostage, I think Mal had had enough.
With the OiS Kallie rape thing, it was Early's intimidation of Kallie, so that she wouldn't get in his way. He dealed with people differently on the ship. With Simon, he used logic, with Mal and Book, he just beat the crap out of them, and with Kallie, he just scared the crap out of her.
On the Heart of Gold front, I got nothin. I would think that a hovering car would be faster than a horse, but hey.
Thank you for letting me rant.

To Jayne! The box dropping man ape gone wrong thing!

GEORDIESTEVE2003

Saturday, January 31, 2004 6:50 PM

The bit where we dont get all the answers is my least favourite moment!!!! I want to know who Book really is! I want to know what they had planned for River! Was she going to be a spy or what???? I need answers people!

SLAYER730

Saturday, January 31, 2004 8:34 PM

Amanda4U, I understand where you are coming from. I understand that Early was trying to intimidate Kaylee and keep her quiet. It just seems like a completely over the top and unnecessary way to do it. He had a gun, it would have been enough to scare the go se out of Kaylee(especially since we've seen how "adept" she is at gunplay).

And, it's Kaylee...not Kallie.

***Never judge a book by its movie***

STEVE580

Saturday, January 31, 2004 9:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by slayer730:
Amanda4U, I understand where you are coming from. I understand that Early was trying to intimidate Kaylee and keep her quiet. It just seems like a completely over the top and unnecessary way to do it. He had a gun, it would have been enough to scare the go se out of Kaylee(especially since we've seen how "adept" she is at gunplay).

It was completely over the top and unnessecary. That's Early for ya.
-Steve

ARIYA

Sunday, February 1, 2004 12:58 AM

Well, I have had a few discussions with people regarding Jubal's method of intimidating Kaylee, and I maintain that moment was one of the most powerful in the series. Jewel Staite brought a level of emotional vulnerability and honesty to that moment rarely seen in television or cinema.
As for an explanation, Jubal handled each person on the ship differently (as was mentioned above and in the commentary). Kaylee's character was based in her sensuality, her innocence, and her passion. Jubal, being the dark, horrid man he is, cut right to the heart of Kaylee, and threatened to attack the center of her being. The fact that people become upset about that moment in the show indicates to me that it did its job.

Ariya

NIGHTTRAIN

Sunday, February 1, 2004 1:38 AM

That definitely bothered me a little bit. However, what i really didn't like about the episode is how they bring Tracy home and all have a sad moment after he dies. Considering how Tracy shot the pilot, took the mechanic hostage, and tried to hijack serenity, which put the whole crew in danger, I definitely would have turned him over to the cops.

BOURNE

Sunday, February 1, 2004 4:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
As to Mal explaining why he does things or letting everyone in on his plans, that is the problem w/ command. The second you start informing everyone what you are doing, then everyone will put in their two cents, questions, and suggestions. You have a debate on your hands then and at times like in "The Message", they simply did not have time to talk things over. I guess it boils down to he is the captain and he always does what is best for everyone concerned.

Actually, I don't see that that's the case:

1) Part of good leadership/management is understanding those under you, their strengths AND limitations, and addressing same. From the war, and from Tracey's own account of his less-than-wise business decisions, Mal knows Tracey tends to be inept and short-sighted. A short sentence or two would have gone a long way towards forestalling Tracey's ape-shit session. In the war scene in the pilot, during an ACTUAL firefight, Mal was not averse to "taking a breath" in order to buck up his troops with a little explanation.

2) During the final scene(s) in "The Message", Tracey actually has a gun trained on them, actually SHOOTS Wash. At this point, unless he is stubborn to the point of unredeemable stupidity - NOT a solid leadership trait - he should realize that whether Tracey will become insubordinate due to a little info is moot. He's way past insubordinate and working on mutiny. At numerous points, he could see Tracey's slide into desperate lunacy, and seen that "what's best for the crew" is to defuse the situation.

Yeah, as y'all might be able to tell, this plot point bothered me plenty, too. I just sort of coast by it and tie into the emotional content of the episode, though.

WHOA, only just realized how far this thread had gone past this point! Sorry, everybody...

VETERAN

Sunday, February 1, 2004 5:06 AM

Quote:
he should realize that whether Tracey will become insubordinate due to a little info is moot. He's way past insubordinate and working on mutiny. At numerous points, he could see Tracey's slide into desperate lunacy, and seen that "what's best for the crew" is to defuse the situation.

I always thought you shot mutineers.

My least favorite scene is when Nandi gets shot in HoG. Inara had a knife at his throat, why didn't she tell him to drop the gun and then give up the baby?

BOURNE

Sunday, February 1, 2004 6:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Veteran:

I always thought you shot mutineers.

You shoot DESERTERS. Usually HANG mutineers :)

Anyways, something else that really bothers me. It's more of a technical/stylistic thing than a plot point. It happens periodically throughout the series, but one example stands out in my mind:

In War Stories, when the crew is mounting a rescue of the Captain, Gina/Zoe breaks cover, does a grade-school gym-class somersault, then leisurely double-draws and guns down a henchman WHO'S HAD A BEAD ON HER THE WHOLE TIME. ARRRRRGGGGHHHHH!

BOURNE

Sunday, February 1, 2004 7:49 AM

Another thing about "The Message":

What the @&!%# was Dr. Tam doing during the death scene? He's a TRAUMA surgeon, for Pete's sake, and he's just sitting there, doing nothing. Mal even tells Tracey his chest wound "can be seen to." I realize they have to usher the crooked cops off the boat first, but I expected him - and everyone else - to spring into action afterwards.

But they don't.

For those who believe his wounds were irretrievably mortal, why did he take so LONG to die? Simon or anyone else could've made nearly half a dozen trips to the infirmary in the time it took him to bleed out. From two left anterior chest wounds. Between the 2nd and 6th ribs. This is perilously close to the middle mediastinum, folks. As in heart/aorta/etc.

Granted, his innards ain't his innards: maybe the replacements have a different configuration. But in an earlier scene, Dr. Tam auscultates his chest in roughly the right place to double check the funny beat he gets from the pulse ox on Tracey's finger. So the configuration is basically the same.

Okay, let just assume the bullet(s) MISSED his heart, or just grazed it, or hit it and somehow plugged its own hole (hmmmm....). Maybe he's got a combination pneumo-/hemo-thorax. No matter how you slice it (pun intended), there's clearly enough time to TRY something. Chest tube, needle decompression...hell, like I mentioned above Dr. Tam is a trauma surgeon. He would've had the big guys haulin' Tracey's ass down to the infirmary, started IV fluids, even cracked his chest and started diggin'...not squat down and hold pressure on the wound for 5 seconds AND THEN STOP.

I anticipate the argument that running time constraints may have precluded an "ER-type" scene. I don't buy it, though. There's plenty of corners left to cut in this episode, to justify adding a heroic, futile life-saving scene that satisfies both dramatic and realistic demands. Joss even mentions several times (in other commentaries and interviews) that he wanted to give the series a bit of a gritty, documentary feel.

Oh, well.

SHSSAY

Sunday, February 1, 2004 10:49 AM

My least favorite moment in Firefly.....I had to sit and think on this for a while.^^ I know that many Jayne fans are going to hate me for this, but my least favorite moment on the show is when Mal didn't let him get sucked out of the ship in 'Ariel'. Gorram traitor. I don't know how he can say Simon and River don't belong on Serenity and continue to be so hard on them after that.

"Two by two, hands of blue." -River Tam

11THHOUR

Sunday, February 1, 2004 11:20 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Steve580:Also, in Heart of Gold. The whole epsiode.

Ditto.

And I loves Firefly with a POWERFUL strong love.

Heart of Gold was "imitation Firefly" for me. I hate to say it, but yeah... that one just struck me wrong.

Just a few reasons:

- Bad guy was one dimensional bad. No layers, nuthin'. Just Mr. Evil Bully Guy. Generic black hat meanie designed so that we don't feel bad when he gets shot. *Yawn* and... yuck.

- After all the times that Mal has risked his life and gone through hell to keep his crew safe and keep flying... he risks EVERYTHING on a feud that doesn't concern him?! So he gets fully involved just because Nandi is hot and independent (like him) and Inara's friend? Sheesh... sorry, I don't buy it. Life is too hard in the black, you take better care of you and yours. Plus, just because they put down one skirmish doesn't mean something just as bad won't happen after they break orbit.

- The 'Western talk' in this episode was heavy and right outta a B movie Western. Much more exaggerated and unrealistic compared to other Firefly episodes.

- Biggest, clunkiest, plot arc device was dropped, with a thud, between Zoe and Wash. All of a sudden, she wants to have a baby?! Wash agues the point of reason that their lives are too dangerous to bring a baby into their world. Zoe disagrees. Of course this whole conversation is happening while they're preparing for a big, messy gun battle... Uh, can you say dangerous, hello? If this was a hint of where they were going to go with Zoe and Wash, I'm glad it got interrupted.

- The writing was like it came from someone who heard about Firefly second hand, and took a try at it. The crew was acting like loose, one dimensional sketches of themselves. Jayne was just a running joke about getting laid and being a tough guy. Book kept being accompanied by a couple of whore groupies, to whom he offered cliche platitudes. Simon did doctor duties for the oft seen woman having a baby in hard circumstances stuff... and, River watched. Kaylee had a few interesting lines, but not much else. She did save Wash from being shot, and landed on top of him in the process... which made me wonder...

Speaking of that:

- Isn't there any way to lock up Serenity when they park her? How the hell did they let a group of scrappy cowboys get on board so they could get the jump on Wash and Kaylee? Sloppy...

Heart of Gold confused me. It just didn't 'feel' right. Not a total loss, things could have been done to improve it. Mostly the episode seemed to be servicing the need to start an ongoing conflict between Zoe and Wash, which didn't involve Mal. And it also served to prompt the plot arc involving Inara's decision to leave the ship. Which of course is a reflection of her relationship with Mal. The story was just so flawed, in many ways, and seemed forced.

Mostly, I just love Firefly like crazy. It's when you care, that if something strikes you wrong, you speak up. Just my opinion.

11thHour

__________________________________________________________

"Doing the impossible makes us mighty." - Malcolm Reynolds

STATIC

Sunday, February 1, 2004 2:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ariya:

As for an explanation, Jubal handled each person on the ship differently (as was mentioned above and in the commentary). Kaylee's character was based in her sensuality, her innocence, and her passion.
Ariya

When I first saw this episode, and he asked that question, I admit, my immediate reaction was "WHOA. . .hold up. . .calm down. . .what were the writers thinking?"

Then I watched it again. . .and again. . .and thought about it some more. . .and I tried to imagine what Early was 'all about'. What WOULD you threaten Kaylee with?

"Have you ever been shot, Kaylee?"
"Well. . .yeah."
"Have you ever been smacked around?"
Probably
"Ooooooooooookay. . .so I guess in order to completely terrify you into utter compliance, I'm going to have to threaten you with the only extremely violent act you haven't experienced. . .or if you HAVE experienced it, I'm under the understanding that it's not something that gets 'less terrible' if it occurs more than once (Not being a person who has ever been subjected to a rape, I would never dare suggest that I could even imagine what it is like)."

Was it extreme? Yes.

Was it over-the-top? Definitely.

Do you think Joss could have come up with a BETTER way to give us a glimpse RIGHT OFF THE BAT of what a deeply EVIL and BRUTAL man our potentially recurring villain is? I doubt it.

What REALLY pisses me off is that the censors would have jumped all over it. . .while at the same time, allowing us to watch people eat pureed GOAT PENIS on "Suck Factor". . .er, I mean "Fear Factor."

==================================================
Why will the censors let me watch people eat pureed goat penis, but they won't let me see Inara's nipple?

FREMDFIRMA

Sunday, February 1, 2004 3:20 PM

>>The only thing that bugs me is the use of present day weapons. 500 years in the future and they still use .45's? I wouldn't think that it would have cost too much to fancify the weapons like they did with Mals.<<

But why ?

The Colt peacemaker is as effective, now, as it ever was.
Even better, the Colt M1911 .45 auto - it's been in service since 1911, unchanged in design or construction and the basic design of it has been retained and copied endlessly - form follows function.
I ain't *ever* parting with mine, it's simple, reliable, easy to maintains and puts big nasty holes in whatever you shoot with it.
Like a toothpick, once you've achieved perfection of design, any messing with it just screws it up.
They'll be around for 500 years and more, don't you doubt it.

As for Early and Kaylee ?

He didn't just want compliance, he wanted to mentally and emotionally CRUSH her to the point where she would not in any way, ever even conceive of defying him... in the same way that he physically beat Book senseless, he emotionally beat Kaylee senseless - he did so because he enjoyed it (he's a sadist) and it was quiet.
And point being, without River's interferance - it would have worked.

Tracy ?

Tracy was already dead.
Ok, lemme sum this up for those of less criminal bent, ok?

There would be no profit in putting his original organs on ice and then putting them back in - thus it wasn't ever going to happen.
He would NEVER have been waking up with his own stuff back in, cause he would never have been waking up, see ?
A - No expense of preserving and reinstalling his organs
B - No having to pay the sodder.
C - No Witness.
No, even if by some wild chance they WERE that nice, they'd have ditched Tracey's organs once he sold em out, and what kind of MORON is Tracey in trying to sell that stuff to someone who did not have his original guts to put back in ?

Simon hinted that leaving those organs in Tracey indefinately wasn't survivable either, thus, he was a dead man from the very beginning of this scheme - just a matter of time.
Don't think I'd feel too bad about blowing him away myself, given the situation.

The hovercraft in heart of gold ?

That was ultramodern... how ?
Ever been to Florida, and seen those fan-powered skiffs ?
They DO have hovercraft on similar designs, even now.... I dunno how fast they are tho.
I did think the CGI on it wasn't too hot, tho.

-frem
diefuxdie

FREMDFIRMA

Sunday, February 1, 2004 3:20 PM

Gorram doubleposts...

LOADANDMAKEREADY

Sunday, February 1, 2004 4:37 PM

[QUOTE
The Message has to be my favorite episode of all and here’s why this scene worked for me.

When Tracey first came in and Book and Mal were talking, they didn’t have the plan all talked out to every last detail. Both being men with obvious leadership training and military knowledge they didn’t have to spell out exactly what they were thinking, the other man just caught on. When Tracey turned a gun on our crew Book stepped forward and tried to explain the plan, but the gun was quickly turned on him and he was told to “shut it”. Now it doesn’t matter what anyone might have said. Tracey wouldn’t believe it. It would of all been an excuse, a lie, to get Kaylee back before he was handed over to the feds and killed for those fancy organs he was carrying.

Since Tracey was willing to lie and put Serenity and her crew in danger, it seems fitting that he would believe them capable of doing the same to him.

The part I found most interesting, was the very concept that certain organs could only be transported in a body so-to-speak, keeping Tracy alive. But Tracy's organs could be shipped ahead via some 25th century UPS ... it just didn't make sense.

ABOVE ALL ELSE: KYFHO!

GORRAMREAVERS

Sunday, February 1, 2004 5:23 PM

11thhour- I thought your comments on Heart of Gold were very good. So far I have only watched that epi once and it bugged me too. Ill still watch it again...after all...its all we got :(

SAINT JAYNE

Sunday, February 1, 2004 6:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Static:
Do you think Joss could have come up with a BETTER way to give us a glimpse RIGHT OFF THE BAT of what a deeply EVIL and BRUTAL man our potentially recurring villain is? I doubt it.

I wasn't going to post on this thread. All of the least favourite moments are simply glazed over in magical memory fog.

But Early is an interesting point. What he says was designed to bring forth emotion from the viewer. Hopefully directed at the character and not the writer. There are worse things than threatening rape and I'm sure those cop / ambulance / lawyer shows go into them all.

As a side point, I was also moved to discomfort by the "on your knees" scene in Heart of Gold but nobody brings that up.

CAITLYN

Sunday, February 1, 2004 6:48 PM

My least favorite moments: the torture scenes in "War Stories", especially when Mal's ear is cut off. That whole episode is my least favorite. It's totally dark and disturbed in a way no other episode, not even "The Message", is. There is little humor and what there is falls flat for the most part. I find the whole episode hard to watch.

The scene with Early threatening to rape Kaylee BOTHERED me the first time I saw it, but that is one subject that I am definitely overly sensitive about. In retrospect, it does fit Early's character and does show him, to quote someone earlier in the thread, as "one sick bastard".

"Heart of Gold" is a weak link, I agree. It still doesn't bother me nearly as much as "War Stories".

"Hamsters is nice"

BARNEYT

Sunday, February 1, 2004 6:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Saint Jayne:
[BAs a side point, I was also moved to discomfort by the "on your knees" scene in Heart of Gold but nobody brings that up.

Yeah, me too - I don't know why it doesn't get mentioned in discussions about the reactions to Jubal Early - maybe it's an indication that most people (like me) didn't like the HoG episode and so didn't have that much of a reaction to that situation.

Also, Jubal Early, for all that he's insane, is charismatic so it is more disturbing to see him act this way - plus it was Kaylee and that'll always gets people's blood boiling!

---
"I think the right place to start is to say, fair is fair. This is who we are. These are our numbers." Mr Willis of Ohio - The West Wing

SAMUS

Sunday, February 1, 2004 7:24 PM

For me, one of my least favourite moments is at the end of Our Mrs. Reynolds, when Mal strikes Saffron when he's straddling her.

I know she tried to kill them all, etc. But to me, there was something really disturbing about him hitting her in a non- self-defense situation.

And also, after watching the entire series, perhaps out of character for him. But maybe that was the point. Still didn't care for it much though.

SAINT JAYNE

Sunday, February 1, 2004 7:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Samus:
For me, one of my least favourite moments is at the end of Our Mrs. Reynolds, when Mal strikes Saffron when he's straddling her.

I think of it like this: Saffron's got Mal's shuttle, and Mal doesn't want her trying to kill him while he's retrieving said shuttle. So he puts her off her guard with a personal question and clocks her to knock her out. It's probably the best thing he could do in the situation.

SAMUS

Sunday, February 1, 2004 8:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Saint Jayne:
It's probably the best thing he could do in the situation.

I don't necessarily disagree - two episodes have shown that Saffron is dangerous & not to be trusted.

But it's just like someone else said above re: Early/Kaylee and the threatened rape - it just pushes my buttons.

LTNOWIS

Sunday, February 1, 2004 9:40 PM

Quote:
I know she tried to kill them all, etc. But to me, there was something really disturbing about him hitting her in a non- self-defense situation.

But when Mal shoves Crow into the engine, that was pure hilarity.

LUNATIKAT

Sunday, February 1, 2004 9:59 PM

Dear Saint Jayne,
Yeah, how could that little whore go on betraying the Heart of Gold for him after he humiliates her publicly like that? I'm assuming he has her perform fellatio on him right there and then, that's certainly what we're meant to think is possible. In fact, her whole motivation is a mystery, cause the guy she's moling for is such an obvious jerk and asshole, how can she trust him? But, as others have posted, there are more than a few problems with this episode. Not the least of which was that even Joss Whedon couldn't overcome the television inertia that demanded if somebody other than the hero's love interest has a meaningful sexual encounter with the hero, then she must die. Unless she's a recurring character and the show is more soap opera than anything else. The minute it was obvious Mal was going to bed her, I knew she was going to die, but because it was Joss, I kept my fingers crossed. Some conventions are too strong to be broken, I guess .

lunatikat - it's a cow, see, it's upside down

MISGUIDED BY VOICES

Sunday, February 1, 2004 10:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Amanda4u:
Ok, you guys, did any of you watch those epidodes with the commentary on? With the pilot episode, Inara bathing was artistic.

With the OiS Kallie rape thing, it was Early's intimidation of Kallie, so that she wouldn't get in his way.

Gorramit, I should have read to the end of the thread before beginning my replies - you covered all my points far too well.

"I threw up on your bed"

MISGUIDED BY VOICES

Sunday, February 1, 2004 10:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by slayer730:
Amanda4U, I understand where you are coming from. I understand that Early was trying to intimidate Kaylee and keep her quiet. It just seems like a completely over the top and unnecessary way to do it. He had a gun, it would have been enough to scare the go se out of Kaylee(especially since we've seen how "adept" she is at gunplay).

That for me was one of the best written episodes of TV I have seen in a while, in terms of what it said in the time it had.

Some people have been posting about Early's threat to Kaylee being about getting a rise from the viewers (I put that deliberately mildly), but that's not really the case.

Early's threat is meant to get a response from Kaylee. As JW says in the commentary, he is the epitome of evil. Its like a malevolent Night Before Christmas in some ways - Evil visiting Firefly.

Early could have killed Kaylee to make sure she didn't run off or warn anyone, but in part that wasn't his nature (not mercy, but the fact that he did things clean - just what he would be paid for, at least in his mind). His threat had to be so terrifying, so believable, that it would cause a resourceful and courageous young woman to forget that she could just find a tool and get away. Of course, the fact that *he* was there in the first place pretty much did the majority of the job.

The threat wasn't gratuitous or unecessary, it made total sense in the context. Obviously, the effect of the scene is to cause emotion in the viewer, but that's the strength of the writing (and acting).

As an example of the reverse, and hence my least favourite scene - its the deleted scene from Serenity where Simon reads up on the Battle of Serenity - it smacks of info-dump and does not makes sense from the character. Then again, given that may have been part of the reason it was cut, I can't really complain.

"I threw up on your bed"

SNEAKER98

Sunday, February 1, 2004 10:32 PM

Well, I have a few responses to be made.

Regarding Early threatening to rape Kaylee... well, do you really think that bounty hunters are awesome people? Early was one of the best bounty hunters I've ever seen, he was BELIEVABLE. He must've spent weeks alone on his ship, all in order to hunt down people who break the law. This isn't the job for a normal person. He KNOWS how to keep people out of his way. We can all see he isn't normal ;)

About the editting in the opening scene, I liked it. I too thought it was a glitch at first, but it grew on me. Makes the show stand out more ;)

Okay, on to the few things that I didn't like. 1) A few of the voice overs I can hear (eg: Mal saying "The woods are the only place I can see a clear path". It sticks out to me every time)
2) When Zoe does that little somersault, pulls out her dual pistols, and kills someone in "War Stories". I just never liked that part...

One part some people might not like it the "Three buttons" that Wash is always hitting. For me, it just gives me something to look out for ;) *click click click* ah HA! lol :)

"I do the job... and then I get paid. Go run your little world."
-Malcolm Reynolds

SLAYER730

Sunday, February 1, 2004 10:40 PM

Well, I'm sorry I brought the Early/Kaylee thing up...if I knew people were going to so vehemently defend its validity, I wouldn't have offered my opinion. I'm not trying to convince anyone that it was the worst moment, just that it was my least favorite.

I tend to agree with Caitlyn though - it's an sensitive issue with me which is why I felt it was too far. I felt the same way with the bathroom scene between Buffy and Spike.

I will never be comfortable with the threat or the act of rape onscreen and that's why I chose it as MY least favorite moment. It may have its merit, but it was it was the least favorite and most uncomfortable moment for me.

***Never judge a book by its movie***

MISGUIDED BY VOICES

Sunday, February 1, 2004 11:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by slayer730:
Well, I'm sorry I brought the Early/Kaylee thing up...if I knew people were going to so vehemently defend its validity, I wouldn't have offered my opinion.

Valid opinion - not much point in having forums unless people are going to offer them.

Quote:

I tend to agree with Caitlyn though - it's an sensitive issue with me which is why I felt it was too far. I felt the same way with the bathroom scene between Buffy and Spike.

(editted for my choice of words)

I agree with that scene - and partly with me that's to do with the fact that I didn't "want" the character to do that. Whether it was valid within the arc of Spike is open to debate. IMO it was a misstep, and does leave me a little uncomfortable about the character as a whole.

Quote:

I will never be comfortable with the threat or the act of rape onscreen and that's why I chose it as MY least favorite moment. It may have its merit, but it was it was the least favorite and most uncomfortable moment for me.

Fair point - certainly my response was on the basis of the scene's validity and purpose - the general basis of the discussion has been on "bad" scenes, but yours is an interesting and valid variation.

"I threw up on your bed"

SLAYER730

Monday, February 2, 2004 1:00 AM

I know the basis of discussion was on "bad" scenes, but the topic thread was "Your least favorite Firefly moment".

Still, I appreciate your understanding, Misguided.

***Never judge a book by its movie***

ARCPLAYER

Monday, February 2, 2004 3:09 AM

Kaylee getting shot.
Book getting shot.
Good stories both. I just don't like seeing the crew near death.

WOOBABY

Monday, February 2, 2004 4:53 AM

Kaylee being threatened by Early is the most painful scene. Rape is so horrific and Kaylee is the character I most relate too. It’s so gut-wrenching to watch, but Jewel Staite/Summer Glau’s acting and a happy ending, keep the episode one of my favorites.

My least favorite scene however would be most of Heart of Gold!

TMURRIE

Monday, February 2, 2004 5:15 AM

I agree, the one with Early being all disgusting is just....disturbing. What's with Joss and having his characters being raped...or tortured and such? Ah well, Firefly is awesome anyways.

VETERAN

Monday, February 2, 2004 5:28 AM

Bourne wrote:
Saturday, January 31, 2004 20:23

Quote:
You shoot DESERTERS. Usually HANG mutineers :)

You're right. From the yardarm when it's expedient.

Quote:
In War Stories, when the crew is mounting a rescue of the Captain, Gina/Zoe breaks cover, does a grade-school gym-class somersault, then leisurely double-draws and guns down a henchman WHO'S HAD A BEAD ON HER THE WHOLE TIME. ARRRRRGGGGHHHHH!

That is probably their worst scene. Especially if you've ever watched Cleopatra 2525 and have seen the type of atheletic moves Gina is capbable of pulling off.

ANKHAGOGO

Monday, February 2, 2004 6:10 AM

There is no way in hell that Mal would collude with Crazy Girl after she sent his crew to almost certain death in OMR....In OMR Saffron comes across as something of a genius, but she would have to be so, so very stupid to think that Mal would go in with her on that deal.

I think that Saffron's problem there was the fact that even though she thinks that everyone plays everyone, she also thinks that she herself is too clever & too aware to be played.

Saffron told Mal that he was the most gullible person she'd ever marked, which is a pretty normal attitude of a con person toward a mark. It says to me that she didn't think he had a) the brains, and b)the sneaky turn of mind to double-cross her. If she'd bothered to think for a moment, she'd remember that Mal & Co had beaten her at her own game at least three times before Trash -- Inara realized Saffron was playing them, Mal figured out how to disable the net, they tracked her to that cabin with apparently very little trouble.
I honestly think that it never occurred to Saffron that a entire ship's crew could play her without her catching on -- because she always seems to think she's the smartest, toughest one in the room, the one who's in control. She was still thinking of them as marks to be screwed with.

I'll tell you one thing that bothers me, though, about Trash -- why, oh why, didn't Mal just leave her in the house for the Feds to snatch? I'd've high-tailed it out of there, leaving her with her ex the second I'd realized that man had called the Feds -- though it may be possible I'm a little more vindictive than Mal.

"But she was naked! And all...articulate!"

NUR

Monday, February 2, 2004 6:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Saint Jayne:
[As a side point, I was also moved to discomfort by the "on your knees" scene in Heart of Gold but nobody brings that up.

Going to agree with you on this one. It makes me squirm in my seat everytime I see it.

Also this may just be me nitpicking, but in HoG, Mal and Nandi making love, sweat rolling down their bodies. Ok, we've got fully clothed Wash and Zoe going about their business in the hot sun (as well as completely randomly talking about a baby that is never brought up again) and everyone else looking fresh as a peach. But in the night, when desert temperatures get verylow we have 2 naked people practically dripping. Now there could be explanations but a)they wern't exactly vigorous and b) if they had heaters turned on then why were they cool as cucumbers while drinking? I'm sure that it was just supposed to add to the scene, but it just looked so unnatural and out of place that it threw me.

That being said, I loved everything else from HoG and The Message is probably my least favourite episode due to the crappy plot.

Those who restrain desire, do so because theirs is weak enough to be restrained.
-William Blake

STEVE580

Monday, February 2, 2004 1:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Nur:
(as well as completely randomly talking about a baby that is never brought up again)

I'm sure it would have been brought up again - but there were only two episodes after this!

Anyways, I'm glad to see I'm not the onlyone who hated HoG. I, too, thought it uncharactoristic of Mal to take the job initially. One thing I really like about him is how he cares so much for his crew, and so little for anyone else. This whole episode just seemed...wrong.

And yeah, as someone mentioned - in the future, there's no such thing as locks for your vehicles? Pretty dumb.

Modern hovercraft do, I beleive, roughly 55MPH at top speed, perhaps slightly slower. Horses do maybe 35.

One cool part - er, the cool part - of HoG is when Inara is crying in the corner. Well, it's not cool...but, when she'd talked to Mal, I was a bit upset that she wasn't a bit upset. With seeing her cry came the realization of just how much she cares for Mal.
-Steve

GWEILO

Monday, February 2, 2004 9:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BarneyT:
Anyway, back to the point - my least favourite moment is the end of the Heart of Gold where Nandi is shot. I know there had to be a reason why she wasn't around to finish her conversation with Mal about Inara's feelings and all that - but this was pure adventure serial cliche, and it just annoys me!

Sorry to be jumping into the discussion so late. Only registered yesterday.

I couldn´t agree more with BarneyT. There was no reason for killing her. She was no threat. If there´s something I respect Whedon for it´s his originallity. This moment was not his best work.

Even more annoying was the dripping-in-sweat-while-making-love scene, in that same episode. It didn´t make sence to me. It was filmed like as if this was an act between two people deeply in love - even though it was clearly meant to be just sex. Unnessesary to include that scene I think. Mal got some and Inara got hurt. We got it already.

(Btw, what a find Morena was as Inara! That scene in "Our mrs Reynolds" when she thinks Mal is dead and rushes down the ladder... Wow! You can feel her heartbreak and pain.)

SWITCHY

Monday, February 2, 2004 10:11 PM

This is nit-picky I know but in "Ariel" a great episode, I have that I don't quite believe it feeling when Wash and Kaylee find and make flight-worthy an ambulance in a few hours/days. I always feel like it's too easy. Not important really but that would be one of mine.

KASUO

Monday, February 2, 2004 10:45 PM

Trash
- Serenity hovering underneath the island estate. You'd think security would notice something like that.

Heart of Gold
- Most people all ready have voiced/written what was wrong with this ep. I'll just add that one of my friends called the show, "The A-Team" after watching this ep.

The Message
- it seemed a bit odd how after Mal cuts off Womack from the comm, everybody sits in the lounge and have a nice long talk. I mean, it's not like Womack's ship just left and I doubt Wash could keep Womack distracted that long.

________
"Let's moon 'em!"

MISGUIDED BY VOICES

Monday, February 2, 2004 10:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by switchy:
This is nit-picky I know but in "Ariel" a great episode, I have that I don't quite believe it feeling when Wash and Kaylee find and make flight-worthy an ambulance in a few hours/days. I always feel like it's too easy. Not important really but that would be one of mine.

I expected Mal to light up a cigar and say "I love it when a plan comes together".

Just thought - hats. I just don't like some of the hats. Its a failing in my character I suppose.

"I threw up on your bed"

MILORADELL

Tuesday, February 3, 2004 1:44 PM

In the Train Job, when Mal says

Quote:
he's my hero

about Simon. I hate that! I just want to reach into the tv and slap Mal!

It just really irks me, and so does not read with the rest of Mal's character. And that ridiculous little voice! I know that Joss and company and been handed the dictate to make Mal funnier, but really - this particular line just doesn't do it. So that's my absolutely most hated moment in all of Firefly.

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, February 3, 2004 3:19 PM

I see your point per your comments on 'The Message'. However, as mentioned by others, Mal is the Capt,( or in Tracy's case, Sarge ) and when he says jump.... Also, having Mal not reveal the plan gave Tracy an opportunity to show his true colors....calling Mal and Zoe 'chumps' or what ever..that he had played them for being so gullible. In the end, however, it was Mal and Zoe who showed THEIR true colors by carrying Tracy home.

And how ironic that it was Mal who was carrying that bullet w/ Tracy's name on it..so long after the war had ended.

GTHING

Tuesday, February 3, 2004 4:26 PM

My least favorite moment has to be when the Feds arrive in "Bushwhacked". That created some plot problems. Most notably, I have a hard time believing they would really let Mal go free after he kills the hostile.

If the Feds had not stumbled in that situation, the rest of the episode would have been about our heroes trying to get away from the Reavers that are coming back for them. I seriously think "Bushwhacked" would have been something truly great had that been the case.

Excerpt from My Genre Geek Resume:
~huge Odyssey 5 fan (despite its cancellation)
~dangerously obsessed with BtVS and Angel
~former Andromeda fan

HKCAVALIER

Tuesday, February 3, 2004 4:40 PM

I just had to reply because I just rewatched that episode and put down the "He's my hero" moment as my favorite fireflygasm. I love that in tv land such a thing is totally "out of character," (can you imagine William Riker using a funny voice--would you want to?), but people in the real world do that all, all, all the time. I thought it encapsulated Mal's feelings about Simon beautifully and was very consistant with Mal's infamous practical joke about Kaylee's death. Simon just brings out the prankster in Mal. We can all appreciate how decent and noble Mal is, but I like that he is also juvanile and every now and then goofy.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

WILDHEAVENFARM

Wednesday, February 4, 2004 1:54 AM

The moment that sticks in my brain as irksome is in "Trash" when WhatsHisFace catches Mal and Saffron/Yolanda, is overjoyed, and offers Mal a reward. Had I been him, I would have taken the reward and left the two of them in peace. The pay-off would have been less, but so would the risk.

Now, I may come back later and curse aloud another moment, as my dvd player has yet to allow me to watch "Heart of Gold" and it seems to have raised some ire.

Mary
Always a beast, never a burden.

WILDHEAVENFARM

Wednesday, February 4, 2004 1:56 AM

Oh sure, haven't you ever seen Junkyard Wars?

Quote:
Originally posted by switchy:
This is nit-picky I know but in "Ariel" a great episode, I have that I don't quite believe it feeling when Wash and Kaylee find and make flight-worthy an ambulance in a few hours/days. I always feel like it's too easy. B]

Mary
Always a beast, never a burden.

DRAKON

Wednesday, February 4, 2004 10:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by GThing:
My least favorite moment has to be when the Feds arrive in "Bushwhacked". That created some plot problems. Most notably, I have a hard time believing they would really let Mal go free after he kills the hostile.

It would not be civilized to punish a man for just saving your life.

"Wash, where is my damn spaceship?"

BROWNCOAT1

Wednesday, February 4, 2004 3:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Drakon:
Quote:
Originally posted by GThing:
My least favorite moment has to be when the Feds arrive in "Bushwhacked". That created some plot problems. Most notably, I have a hard time believing they would really let Mal go free after he kills the hostile.

It would not be civilized to punish a man for just saving your life.

Exactly. They let Mal go because he had saved the life of the Alliance commander.

Of course, the Alliance commander took the cargo that Mal and our heroes liberated from the derelict ship.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

MELEAUX

Wednesday, February 4, 2004 4:19 PM

My least favoite part of FF?
There is only one but it sticks out preety badly. In the pilot when Mal tells Simon that Kaylee is dead and the next scene shows the rest of the crew laughing hysterically. It wouldn't go down like that. It was too mean spirited a "joke"for souls like Wash and Zoe to get so giggly about. I have never felt comfortable with that

She understands, she doesn't comprehend

OKKAY

Wednesday, February 4, 2004 5:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by WildHeavenFarm:
The moment that sticks in my brain as irksome is in "Trash" when WhatsHisFace catches Mal and Saffron/Yolanda, is overjoyed, and offers Mal a reward. Had I been him, I would have taken the reward and left the two of them in peace. The pay-off would have been less, but so would the risk.

Now, I may come back later and curse aloud another moment, as my dvd player has yet to allow me to watch "Heart of Gold" and it seems to have raised some ire.

Mary
Always a beast, never a burden.

I think you're underestimating the difference in values of the two payoffs. The Lassiter was a priceless artifact, worth millions, while the reward would have been maybe a couple thousand dollars? I'm guessing at those values since I don't know how money works there, but the difference was probably something like a-thousand-fold. Plus his whole crew helped out on the heist, and they wouldn't have been happy doing all that for just pocket change. Besides, I don't think Haymer was planning on giving him the money, he called the police right when he saw them.

HJERMSTED

Wednesday, February 4, 2004 6:08 PM

Quote:
The only thing that bugs me is the use of present day weapons. 500 years in the future and they still use .45's? I wouldn't think that it would have cost too much to fancify the weapons like they did with Mals.

Think of it this way... there are guns EVERYWHERE in the here and now. Yet some of the greatest genocide of the last century took place in Africa and was perpetuated with the machete of all things.

It's a trickle down world. Old weapons, unfortunately, don't magically disappear when a new one comes along. Some become collector's items. Some get used to survive and are handed down for the newer fancier weapons are unaffordable. It's all part of accepting that (in Firefly's view) a class system with more have-nots than haves could very easily exist 500 years in the future.

The only episode I have trouble with (actually just parts of it) is 'Safe'. I found the actors playing the nurse and the 'mayor' in the town of hill zealots to be a little wooden in their acting. Nothing takes me out of the moment like bad acting. You have to use exceptional actors to pull of zealotry because they have to forget how to be smart while playing such ignorant characters. Some actors have trouble with this subtle nuance.

Other than that I'm pretty happy with the show and didn't notice or wasn't bothered by most of the things detailed in this thread.

That said..

I am upset that we aren't presently enjoying February sweeps editions of Firefly's second season.

I am upset because I do not know what the inside of a Reaver ship looks like (and how these lawless loonies have enough structure to keep a space ship going).

I am upset that I didn't get to see Mal's first face-to-face encounter with the Blue Hands and see how he escapes that situation.

I am bummed I haven't witnessed the further redemption of Jayne nor have I learned more about Book's past.

It upsets me that I know not more about the enigmatic River who is possibly the toughest and most dangerous member of the crew.

I doubt all of this will be addressed in a two hour movie, but I am hopeful!

mattro

BROWNCOAT1

Wednesday, February 4, 2004 8:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by meleaux:
My least favoite part of FF?
There is only one but it sticks out preety badly. In the pilot when Mal tells Simon that Kaylee is dead and the next scene shows the rest of the crew laughing hysterically. It wouldn't go down like that. It was too mean spirited a "joke"for souls like Wash and Zoe to get so giggly about. I have never felt comfortable with that.

Actually, I was shocked the first time I saw the show and Mal told Simon Kaylee was dead. I thought to myself "Wow. That was a fast character death, even for Joss". Then when we see Mal and group laughing, I could not help but laugh.

I guess this was an example of "screw w/ the new guy". I think every group in one shape or form has played pranks on the newest member. I think Mal did this as well to put a scare into Simon. In groups as tight knit as the crew of Serenity I am sure they do not find the joke disturbing at all.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

ARAWAEN

Wednesday, February 4, 2004 9:05 PM

There are some easy to understand reasons for the different historical firearms.

If you knew you were going to be a firefight and were offered a winchester, an M-16 and whatever plasma rifle arnold requests in the first terminator movie, you might think the plasma rifle is the best choice. But consider: 1) Where are you going to get ammo/power cells for it? 2) How are you going to get it repaired if it breaks? Colonists are going to want a weapon that can be repaired and 'reloaded' with local technology. Depending upon the technological development you will have different weapons available on different worlds. People that travel between them will probably want a range so that no matter what world they are on they will have weapons that can be fixed and ammunition be purchased (or manufactured) there.

The hi-tech alliance weapons also have severe limitations. Seems like they don't kill, nor do they open doors . I assume that they need hi-tech gear to repair as well.

I also think, given the nature of the alliance, that ownership of most weapons is illegal or highly restricted. If there are bans on manufacture of civilian or lethal firearms, there will be a good black market trade in older weapons.

I separate least favorite as in disturbing from least favorite as in bad quality. My least favorite disturbing moment is Jubal's threat to Kaylee. Not because I think it was over the top, unecessary or anything, but because I like Kaylee's character and her innocence. Jubal's comment is disturbing, though in character.

My least favorite moment in terms of badness is... I guess I haven't made my mind up on that one.

Arawaen

SAINT JAYNE

Wednesday, February 4, 2004 9:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by meleaux:
My least favoite part of FF?
There is only one but it sticks out preety badly. In the pilot when Mal tells Simon that Kaylee is dead and the next scene shows the rest of the crew laughing hysterically. It wouldn't go down like that. It was too mean spirited a "joke"for souls like Wash and Zoe to get so giggly about. I have never felt comfortable with that.

You feel about Wash very differently than I do. I saw Serenity as a character-building episode, so I expect Wash to act like this. Later on Jayne says, "Why don't we shoot her first?" and Wash replies, "It is her turn".

Maybe this mindset helps: At this point in the story, Simon is the heartless bastard that nearly let Kaylee die. He is very worthy of some mean-spirited ribbing.

SPIKESPIEGEL

Wednesday, February 4, 2004 10:12 PM

Great thread. Love that responses are divided between "worst moment = bad writing" or "worst moment = scene that upset me," both valid takes on the question. My thoughts on much of what's been said:

Fortunatus' plot point about Our Mrs. R is a good one -- if Saffron sent the ship, her colleagues should've known it was worth frying.

On the Inara bathing scene ... I'll take what I can get of that and be happy with it.

On Jubal's threat to Kaylee: Oh, it was SO creepy, and this show had a history of sudden violence (or threat of, thankfully, here) that would shock me, make me say, "They don't DO that on TV." I accept this scene on that ground, and the scene's effectiveness and story logic were best expressed above by Ariya.

Also, it establishes Jubal as not just a brilliant bounty hunter, but a demented and wicked man.

I'm glad, as a fan, that Mal didn't let Jayne get sucked outta that airlock, but it would've been a better ep if he had. I loved the show for making me think, with its sudden bursts of real, cold violence, that Jayne's death was a very real possibility, not just fake TV drama.

I accepted Mal's sick "Kaylee's Dead" joke as the work of someone who has seen a lot of war, death and evil, and who has been affected by it. Soldiers, paramedics, firefighters, even news reporters can be stunningly cavalier about issues of death and worse, because they're numbed to them, or because to feel it all would just overwhelm them.

"Bang."

SPIKESPIEGEL

Wednesday, February 4, 2004 10:14 PM

To me, the biggest issue on this thread is Mal keeping secrets from Tracey (most interesting was the Jubal/Kaylee stuff). Mal does this kinda thing other times on the show. I fully agree with the general lines of reasoning defending (he's the gorram captain!) or explaining (he's so internalized!) why he does it, but there's another issue: It's a writing device.

The writers here created a bigger, more dramatic problem when, as some posters have suggested, anyone who cared about having no one on his crew getting shot would've tried to talk Tracey down by sharing the plan, if he had one, or by lying, sweet-talking, whatever. Then punch him out when he lowers the gun.

Writers use this device because they need something to propel the plot. Sometimes, it fits the story perfectly. Other times, you can see that it's a lame excuse, illogical, a crutch to keep the story moving forward. Might be worth debating which is the case in this story. Me, while I FULLY see everyone's reasoning for Mal's behavior, I think it was a case of the writers being kinda lazy, when a better solution was called for, and it qualifies as my least-fave moment.

Only barely -- I don't have THAT big a problem with the scene, but something's gotta be worst. And Nandi's death comes close, as another case of "Oh, the plot demanded this, it's the easy resolution to the brief Mal/Nandi/Inara triangle.

When I first watched "Heart of Gold," I actually felt disloyal for not liking it very much, for all the reasons y'all have given above.

Anyone notice how the worst moments/eps of this show are better than the best on most others?

"Bang."

OKKAY

Wednesday, February 4, 2004 10:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SpikeSpiegel:
To me, the biggest issue on this thread is Mal keeping secrets from Tracey (most interesting was the Jubal/Kaylee stuff). Mal does this kinda thing other times on the show. I fully agree with the general lines of reasoning defending (he's the gorram captain!) or explaining (he's so internalized!) why he does it, but there's another issue: It's a writing device.

The writers here created a bigger, more dramatic problem when, as some posters have suggested, anyone who cared about having no one on his crew getting shot would've tried to talk Tracey down by sharing the plan, if he had one, or by lying, sweet-talking, whatever. Then punch him out when he lowers the gun.

Writers use this device because they need something to propel the plot. Sometimes, it fits the story perfectly. Other times, you can see that it's a lame excuse, illogical, a crutch to keep the story moving forward. Might be worth debating which is the case in this story. Me, while I FULLY see everyone's reasoning for Mal's behavior, I think it was a case of the writers being kinda lazy, when a better solution was called for, and it qualifies as my least-fave moment.

Only barely -- I don't have THAT big a problem with the scene, but something's gotta be worst. And Nandi's death comes close, as another case of "Oh, the plot demanded this, it's the easy resolution to the brief Mal/Nandi/Inara triangle.

When I first watched "Heart of Gold," I actually felt disloyal for not liking it very much, for all the reasons y'all have given above.

Anyone notice how the worst moments/eps of this show are better than the best on most others?

"Bang."

That pretty much sums up my thoughts on this topic, what I was trying to say although I didn't say it very well. Yes, there can be justifications for why Mal did what he did, but to me, it just felt like a contrived conflict used only to further the plot.

And I agree that the worst moments on this show are better than the best on most others. None of these "least favorite moments" in any way diminishes my respect and utter fascination for everything they've done on this show.

SHINY

Wednesday, February 4, 2004 10:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ankhagogo:
I'll tell you one thing that bothers me, though, about Trash -- why, oh why, didn't Mal just leave her in the house for the Feds to snatch?

Because she hadn't betrayed him/them at that point. "Man of honor in a den of thieves", remember?

RIVER
Purple elephants are flying.
MAL
Good. Thanks for the update.

STEVE580

Thursday, February 5, 2004 4:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SpikeSpiegel:
Anyone notice how the worst moments/eps of this show are better than the best on most others?

That was exctly my reaction after seeing this ep for the first time. I told my friends, "For a Firefly episode, it was a 3. For a television episode, it was a 10."
-Steve

EBONEZER

Thursday, February 5, 2004 5:38 AM

The only scene that really bugged me was at the end of the message. Im not even going to coment on tracyes death and all that because it has been done to death (forgive the pun).

Tracy is laying there dieing and the three "feds" come on the ship. The crew has guns on them and the Book and Mal explain why they arn't feds, and why they should leave before they get shot. And so the leave. It seems to me like the leader fed is a pretty smart guy, who would know that he was outnumberd by traceys war buddies . Seems to me like he would have demanded that they bring tracys body out to him (cuz we can assume he still thinks tracy is dead), and not have the rug pulled from under his feet.

The other thing i just thought of is that how can they mangae to slip a BODY through the mail, but not s few little internal oragans. Why do they need a carrier?

"Go back inside or i will blow another crater in this tiny moon"

HKCAVALIER

Thursday, February 5, 2004 6:21 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ebonezer:
The other thing i just thought of is that how can they mangae to slip a BODY through the mail, but not s few little internal oragans. Why do they need a carrier?

This question is asked and answered in the show as I recall. Simon says they don't have the technology to store them yet, so they use living bodies to stablize the engineered organs. Tracey isn't just storing them, he's an "incubator." Or something.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

EBONEZER

Thursday, February 5, 2004 3:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Quote:
Originally posted by ebonezer:
The other thing i just thought of is that how can they mangae to slip a BODY through the mail, but not s few little internal oragans. Why do they need a carrier?

This question is asked and answered in the show as I recall. Simon says they don't have the technology to store them yet, so they use living bodies to stablize the engineered organs. Tracey isn't just storing them, he's an "incubator." Or something.

.

so how do tracys organs get ahead of him to get back inside him? Tracy needs to learn to think these things through...

"Go back inside or i will blow another crater in this tiny moon"

ARAWAEN

Thursday, February 5, 2004 5:16 PM

I am definitely not disagreeing with people that the Firefly gang didn't handle Tracey as well as they might have, but I do think that we are letting Tracey off a little easy.

1) Tracey is a thief. (True, not unlike the crew of Serenity).
2) Tracey is a murderer (True, possibly in self-defense and our crew has killed their fair share). But he was willing to shoot Wash which wasn't exactly a self-defense situation.
3) Tracey didn't ask for help, he dumped his problems on Mal and Zoe (and by default the whole crew of Serenity).
4) He was willing to turn on the Captain and Zoe, hold Kaylee hostage and risk the lives of the everyone on Serenity for his own safety.

Mal wasn't overly thrilled with Simon dumping his problems (inadvertantly) onto his crew in the pilot and Tracey did it consciously.

While Tracey is a tragic figure, he is not really a 'good guy'.

Arawaen

SHINY

Thursday, February 5, 2004 5:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ebonezer:
so how do tracys organs get ahead of him to get back inside him? Tracy needs to learn to think these things through...

I think in the original script, there was more explanation, along the lines of:

MAL(?): Why did you believe they would put your innards back when you got there?

TRACY: It's not easy to find people willing to do this job; they wanted to be able to use me on multiple runs -- this was already my third.

RIVER
Purple elephants are flying.
MAL
Good. Thanks for the update.

AERRIN

Thursday, February 5, 2004 6:39 PM

Quote:
The only episode I have trouble with (actually just parts of it) is 'Safe'. I found the actors playing the nurse and the 'mayor' in the town of hill zealots to be a little wooden in their acting. Nothing takes me out of the moment like bad acting. You have to use exceptional actors to pull of zealotry because they have to forget how to be smart while playing such ignorant characters. Some actors have trouble with this subtle nuance.

YES! I have trouble even watching those bits, because these actors (particularly the actress who cries 'witch!') just annoy the heck out of me. I think she's stiff, uninteresting, and unbelieveable. I don't buy her as the caring nurse, and I /surely/ don't buy her transformation in that one moment from 'it's a miracle' to 'let's quote scripture and kill her!'

I cannot stand it. That actress rubs me a million wrong ways in that role.

AERRIN

Thursday, February 5, 2004 6:39 PM

Mutter. Double post.

EBONEZER

Friday, February 6, 2004 12:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Shiny:
Quote:
Originally posted by ebonezer:
so how do tracys organs get ahead of him to get back inside him? Tracy needs to learn to think these things through...

I think in the original script, there was more explanation, along the lines of:

MAL(?): Why did you believe they would put your innards back when you got there?

TRACY: It's not easy to find people willing to do this job; they wanted to be able to use me on multiple runs -- this was already my third.

Still don't get it...how come they have the technology to transport real organs but not "fake" ones. If the fake ones are good enough to work (albeit more rapidly and strangly then normals ones), why can't they be transported? And if it's a question of legality (i've alrady mentioned this, sorry just trying to tie it all together)Tracy managed to ship HIMSELF, a large body, through the mail with out anybody noticing (not the "real" alaince anyway), so why couldn't they ship a few organs? On that note, if they can't go through the mail, why couldn't they get a "private shipping company" (ie, someone like mal and crew) to smuggle them frome point A to point B.

"Go back inside or i will blow another crater in this tiny moon"

WILDHEAVENFARM

Friday, February 6, 2004 1:25 AM

An item is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. If no buyer could be found, the Lasiter wasn't worth any more than the metal is was made of. I was just saying I would have jumped off the high risk-high payoff plan in favor of the low risk-low payoff plan, since Saffron was involved and things were likely to blow up in their faces at any moment anyhow. And I think he would have given Mal the money, as someone too beneath him to bother paying much attention to. Mal would just need to beat feet is all.

Quote:
Originally posted by Okkay:
I think you're underestimating the difference in values of the two payoffs. The Lassiter was a priceless artifact, worth millions, while the reward would have been maybe a couple thousand dollars? I'm guessing at those values since I don't know how money works there, but the difference was probably something like a-thousand-fold. Plus his whole crew helped out on the heist, and they wouldn't have been happy doing all that for just pocket change. Besides, I don't think Haymer was planning on giving him the money, he called the police right when he saw them.

Mary
Always a beast, never a burden.

1 2 NEXT PAGE LAST PAGE

What are your *least* favorite Firefly moments?

What are your least favorite Firefly moments?