distorted 'feminist' view of firefly

POSTED BY: pepperg
UPDATED: Tuesday, April 1, 2008 19:08
VIEWED: 32584
PAGE 1 of 1

PEPPERG

Thursday, March 27, 2008 2:08 AM

http://users.livejournal.com/_allecto_/34718.html?view=259998#t259998

talk about unhinged

CHRISISALL

Thursday, March 27, 2008 2:44 AM

WOW. Just...WOW.
Holy s**t, Batman, does she/he miss it.
I'm...*jaw drops*

It's too late for me to pick it apart, but I mean to....

Not an attention whore Chrisisall

MACBAKER

Thursday, March 27, 2008 2:46 AM

Wow, her comments about Joss being a rapist were INSANE! I won't go into her other delusions, but WOW. At first I thought it was a joke, but this woman is serious in her beliefs, and has a hatred for all males that is unhinged in it's bias and bigotry.

At first her comments made me angry, but after reflection, I just pity her and her little blogging fan base. What sad brainwashed people.

Like all movements, there are extremists, and anyone who can say with a straight face, that Joss isn't a pro feminist is a deluded zealot to the feminist cause in the worst possible way. She's that 1% of any movement that gives the cause a bad name!

I'd given some thought to movin' off the edge -- not an ideal location -- thinkin' a place in the middle.

MACBAKER

Thursday, March 27, 2008 2:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
WOW. Just...WOW.
Holy s**t, Batman, does she/he miss it.
I'm...*jaw drops*

It's too late for me to pick it apart, but I mean to....

Not an attention whore Chrisisall

If you are going to pick it apart, don't bother doing it on her blog. Seems any opinion that doesn't support hers either gets attacked, or she threatens to delete them! Besides, your opinion as a man, is less than nothing to someone this biased.

I'd given some thought to movin' off the edge -- not an ideal location -- thinkin' a place in the middle.

CHRISISALL

Thursday, March 27, 2008 2:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by MacBaker:

If you are going to pick it apart, don't bother doing it on her blog. Seems any opinion that doesn't support hers either gets attacked, or she threatens to delete them! Besides, your opinion as a man, is less than nothing to someone this biased.

Wait 'till she hears my "Andrea Dworkin was a dis-information plant by the CIA" rant,,,

hehhehChrisisall

PHYRELIGHT

Thursday, March 27, 2008 2:57 AM

*shakes head* Women like her are just as destructive as chauvinist pigs.

Darksiders can keep their cookies. We have better writers.

Grrr. Argghh.

Patiently waiting to see Cap'n Hammerpants sing! :D

TANKOBITE

Thursday, March 27, 2008 3:11 AM

Well; what a bitch, then.

-----------------------------------------------------------
There's a widow in sleepy Chester
Who weeps for her only son;
There's a grave on the Pabeng River,
A grave that the Burmans shun;
And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri
Who tells how the work was done.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Thursday, March 27, 2008 5:29 AM

I get the severe impression this is not an educated person. She feels the need to explain that "Shepherd" really means "preacher" ( but apparently not "priest" or "cleric" or "rabbi" or "imam" or something else outside her little world).
She seems greatly offended that no member of Serenity is GayLesbianBiTransgender and that Zoe is a Blcak woman. I must admit, that in my narrow view as a mysogynist, I have until this point not raelly thought of Zoe as "Black woman subordinate to white he-man" but rather a strong character with various facets including woman, loyal XO, killer, warrior, and heterosexual. My bad.

WHISPER

Thursday, March 27, 2008 6:00 AM

Seriously. This woman is gung-ho to bash everything that she's obviously missing her own extremely racist and sexist views. She's not looking for harmony between the sexes, she wants female domination. She won't be happy unless all men are subordinate to women.

As a female, i found her remarks incredibely insulting and completely against what we are striving for... equality.

I also too extreme offense to the "no white man and black woman have ever been in a healthy relationship." My brother and his wife have been happily married for 5 years now with 4 beautiful children.

What i believe the true feminist view should be is that there should not need to be a feminist view. When will we all be able to look at each other and see a human being, not a black/white/woman/man?

This may be idealistic, but it is what I strive for.

http://whispergraphics.deviantart.com
http://www.myspace.com/vet_techtiff

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Thursday, March 27, 2008 6:19 AM

I forgot to mention that she apparently also is offended that all of the women on Serenity are not only heterosexual, but also happily so, able to thoroughly enjoy dalliances (or marriage, the legalized prostitution) with those evil deceitful MEN, of all outrages. I think she would be much happier if the babes of this verse were much more torn in angst over their sexuality - and sexual enjoyment, like she appears to be.

JONGSSTRAW

Thursday, March 27, 2008 1:13 PM

I'll betcha ten bucks she has her friendly "Bob" with her constantly, and screams out the name JAYNE! at the appropriate time. "Women" like this are always hypocrites.

MDBROWNCOATGIRL26

Thursday, March 27, 2008 1:50 PM

Good grief! That's so over the top it seems like parody. She totally misunderstood Zoe (Of course she calls Mal "sir"! Even though they aren't in the military anymore. Old habits die hard.) Don't remember Mal telling Zoe to shut up in the pilot episode. My thoughts on Inara are more complicated: I cringe everytime Mal calls her a whore, but other than that I totally disagree with her assesment. Odd she barely mentions River: I was expecting her to criticize early-series River as a helpless white child-woman "damsel in distress". :eyeroll:

DEEPGIRL187

Thursday, March 27, 2008 2:08 PM

Wow...just...wow.

I actually can't think of an adequate way to describe this, other than sad. She completely ignored the wonderful messages in the show in order to support her own extremely distorted viewpoint. I feel badly for her.

****************************************************

"This is my timey-wimey detector. It goes ding when there's stuff. Also, it can boil an egg at 30 paces, whether you want it to or not, actually, so I've learned to stay away from hens. It's not pretty when they blow."

LEIF

Thursday, March 27, 2008 2:35 PM

There is a saying: "If the only tool you have is a hammer, pretty soon every problem looks like a nail."

When someone starts from the position "All men are worthless pigs, all women should be powerful lesbian ass-kickers" then anything that doesn't conform to this view is wrong and can never be anything but oppression.

I have friends that got really into activism (I am being purposefully vague here, it is not their view I am trying to make a point about.) It got to the point every topic came back around to what they were activists about. You could not talk to them about movies, cars, clothes without it winding around to their particular activist topic.

This rant is an extreme view of that. The author cannot distinguish jokes from serious dialog, ignores compassion on the part of the "hated group" (men) and shrilly criticizes anything outside her worldview of "should be's" (women in power kicking mens asses.)

As a member of the last ethnic group it's still politically correct to bash (white men) I see this in one form or another all the time, from little comments of co-workers to blaring at me from main-stream media. It is refreshing and very, very cool to see this crap given NO weight in the 'verse.

Thanks everyone.

PEPPERG

Thursday, March 27, 2008 4:22 PM

she's a hater, plain and simple

CRUITHNE3753

Thursday, March 27, 2008 6:17 PM

Well, in a world where we are distracted by such petty irrelevances such as genital mutilation and "honour" killings, it's good to see that some people have got their priorities right. Not.

Is this the author of that blog? :-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millie_Tant

FREEBROWNCOAT

Thursday, March 27, 2008 6:19 PM

Perhaps she should see her Doctor to balance out her medications. That was one of the most insane postings I hace ever read. There has got to be something seriously wrong inside.

MAJORLYCOOL

Thursday, March 27, 2008 6:29 PM

Check this out, it will restore your faith in humanity. ;)

http://aic-weirdo.livejournal.com/589119.html

AUDDIE

Thursday, March 27, 2008 7:21 PM

OMG!!! i wonder what happened to HER when she was little...

and.. from what i gather, she is a "multicultural" lesbian woman (she stated about her "white" grandfather.. and her "black" aunts...) i was suprised she didn't go on about willow and tara on buffy.....

sick woman..

PIZMOBEACH

Thursday, March 27, 2008 7:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MajorlyCool:
Check this out, it will restore your faith in humanity. ;)

http://aic-weirdo.livejournal.com/589119.html

I knew Joss hated men equally! Yeah!

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

STRANGEBIRD

Thursday, March 27, 2008 8:05 PM

I feel I need to counter this with my own view. I'm not always very good at articulating myself so if you feel I was wrong on a point let me know. I have nothing but respect for women, as I do any living thing. I am not trying to be offensive and if I'm a feminist I didn't know it. I don't label myself anything but a Browncoat and I'm damn proud of the title.

What a sad person. I'll never understand this point of view. When will these foolish people get over themselves and see the real god damn problem here. They always categorizes and take to extremes the various "issues" instead of realizing that the problem is much bigger. I mean judging people is one thing, it's human nature, but refusing to see anything outside your perverted sensibilities is idiotic. I was raised in the south and have seen a lot of both bigotry and racism... she is most definitely both a bigot and a racist. She hides behind notions of morality but the fact is thinking a black woman can't call a white man sir is simply just as racist as thinking she must. As it is sexist to think a woman cannot be as flawed as any man and that all men are evil.

Nearly all the strong, intelligent people I've met in my life have been women. My great grand mother was the greatest and wisest person I ever met. She visited every state including Hawaii and Alaska along with many other great achievements for a woman from her generation. She died a few years ago at the age of 102. She would not even have acknowledged this womans rantings with even a breath. I wish I had the peace of mind to take that liberty.

That's not to say I haven't met my share of great men or terrible women either. I just see people, flawed and noble, meek and strong. She obviously finds only evil no matter where she looks. And only pity can be felt for someone who has led such a negative, painful existence to bring about that point of view.

I see it as this, if people, in any case, want to be treated equally you'll be treated the same as everyone else... not coddled or bowed down to like a deity. To me that's just as bad as how this "lady" feels all men treat women. Respect must be earned through actions, and can be lost by them far easier than can it be gained.

What a waste of time reading her rant. I could have spent it reading the book series I just discovered.... by god what would she think of that? Being written by a woman and set during a period in which it were illegal for a woman to even wear men's dress. Not to mention hold rank or even be in service to a military. And oh no... it's from a man's perspective. A British Naval Officer no less. She'd have a hey day on that one. Which by the way I recommend to Browncoats as it is very much up our alley. The Temeraire series by Naomi Novik. Fantasy, yes, but an equal mix of alternate history and adventure/thriller thrown in. In the same way Joss mixed Scifi and Western so deftly.

"And that's all I have to say about that..."

Yeah I just quoted Forrest Gump...

By the way MAJORLYCOOL, that was very funny. I have no previous experience with Live Journal and it shows me that there are decent, intelligent people there.

<------<<< ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~(*)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>------>

"When you can't do something smart, do something right." - quoting Book
<------<<< ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~(*)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>------>

VERTIGO

Thursday, March 27, 2008 9:25 PM

*facepalm*
blasphemy!!!

Is it me, or do rants not get the message across?

i mean, that was all a fair argument and the like, and she evidently has strong views.
but all i saw was 'rant rant rant. rant..rant'

I cant stand it.
maybe if she'd been a bit more..subtle?

Shiny.

http://fireflyseriesrp.proboards104.com">
>

ALLIETHORN7

Thursday, March 27, 2008 9:56 PM

What I found just hilarious-
"Wow! I am so impressed at the amount of time and thought you put into this! I also appreciate how you were able to really get to the hardhitting points without getting bogged down in bias. Very well written!"
Bias? That isn't the word, Love- I don't think a word could go beyond that and still be in our language.
Bloody hypocrites. Apparently I am an evil pig because I have a penis and call a girl pretty.

-Danny

The Ocean Breathes Salty,
Won'tyou carry it in,
In your head,
In your mouth,
In your soul?
And maybe we'll get lucky and we'll both grow old,
Well I don't know, I don't know, Don't think so
The Band of the week is... Modest Mouse

Gott weiß ich will kein Engel sein.
http://www.myspace.com/otherrandomdude

FELLOWKNEE

Thursday, March 27, 2008 10:09 PM

Thanks for the heads up on Temeraire. It sounds really great. Dragons and turn of the century military tactics. My inner nerd is drooling.

GRIZWALD

Thursday, March 27, 2008 10:11 PM

I love the juxtaposition of those two rants. It's like so much with Firefly: People get out of it what they want to. There's something in it for everyone. Something to love, if that's what you need; something to hate if you are looking for that, too.

___________________________________________________
High Priestess of Pork and Ag-Related Activities of the MYTHICAL LAND OF IOWA

Click on my profile for my Annoyingly Long List of Firefly Links.

CHRISISALL

Thursday, March 27, 2008 10:13 PM

Buffy did do Spike. Did ya see her bite marks the next morning? No? That's 'cause she was under the carpet...swept there, metaphorically.
Joss must hate women.

What crap Chrisisall

CHRISISALL

Thursday, March 27, 2008 10:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Grizwald:
I love the juxtaposition of those two rants.

"Then the Pilot is raped by the First Mate."

LOL, falls off chair...wipes off tears of laughter...

omgisall

TANKOBITE

Thursday, March 27, 2008 10:31 PM

I think the whole thing's funny; considering that someone said Whedon's future is a dystopia...

Don't you just love the lunatic fringe that gives your movement a bad name? This is the reason I still use sexist pronouns and the phrase "mankind"

Edit: Now someone's taking offense that they call the ship a "She"! Ha! Only one ship I know of was called a "he" (the Bismarck") and look where "he" ended up!
Rofl!
-----------------------------------------------------------
There's a widow in sleepy Chester
Who weeps for her only son;
There's a grave on the Pabeng River,
A grave that the Burmans shun;
And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri
Who tells how the work was done.

MACBAKER

Thursday, March 27, 2008 10:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MajorlyCool:
Check this out, it will restore your faith in humanity. ;)

http://aic-weirdo.livejournal.com/589119.html

That is a brilliant response! So funny, but so dead on extreme in the other direction! Perfect!

I'd given some thought to movin' off the edge -- not an ideal location -- thinkin' a place in the middle.

TANKOBITE

Thursday, March 27, 2008 10:37 PM

Nice; give my regards to the fellow!
Edit: Honestly, I think his argument has more legs to stand on then hers...har!
-----------------------------------------------------------
There's a widow in sleepy Chester
Who weeps for her only son;
There's a grave on the Pabeng River,
A grave that the Burmans shun;
And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri
Who tells how the work was done.

CHRISISALL

Thursday, March 27, 2008 11:03 PM

"Then the Pilot is raped by the First Mate."

Still LOLing, ...wiping off tears of laughter...

Hahahahahahaisall

TRAVELER

Thursday, March 27, 2008 11:42 PM

I stopped reading when she got to Mal talking about duct taping Kaylee's mouth. Anyone who has watched that scene knows he is joking. Even Jayne is joking. When Kaylee is shot, Jayne gets very disturbed by this. jayne wants to know why the man who shot her is still alive. You see Jayne watching Simon work on Kaylee and how upset he is about her. If you watch the complete series you know Mal not only loves Kaylee but has a lot of respect for her.

As for Zoe saying sir. This is actually brought up on the show. Joss does not waltz past this issue. Wash reminds Zoe to say sir because Mal likes it. So this issue is out in the open. Zoe served under Mal and also has a lot of respect for him so she uses sir from habit and Mal is the commander of the ship. In private matters Zoe has confronted Mal. She will show him her opinion when she feels he is wrong. Remember when Mal stuck his foot in his mouth about the dress Kaylee was admiring in the store window. Zoe's glare at Mal could have cut him half. She did not even have to say a word and Mal knew he had messed up big time. He also made up for it by taking Kaylee to the party. He could have taken Zoe.

So this person who wrote this piece really has blinders on.

One last thing. Joss does not create perfect characters. His people are real. They have flaws and they make mistakes. This is one of the reasons I enjoy writers like Joss. He goes beyond the adventure of gunslinging a fist fights to weave the personalities of his characters into the plot. And this means they have conflicts amoung themselves. To do that they must have flaws. The best scene in the series is Mal about to send Jayne through the airlock. Talk about personal conflicts.

Well that was my rant.
Thanks for your patience:
Traveler

http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=28764731
Traveler

SHUKES

Thursday, March 27, 2008 11:51 PM

That is a pretty incredible article that i struggled valiantly to read, i guess people are going to believe what they want regardless of any exterior influence till the ends of time, at least the 2nd piece restored some of my faith in humanity.

The thing that really got me was her misconstruing Mal's comment about duck taping Kaylee's mouth shut as a serious threat rather than a joke, humour is really lost on some people.

TANKOBITE

Friday, March 28, 2008 12:29 AM

That's not the point though...they were patronizing her and it is offensive to women everywhere...

I don't pay anymore attention to them then I do with the Westboro Baptist Church (My home town High School has had the honor of having them protest us twice; I personally had the honor of playing Taps at a Memorial Service they were forced to wait outside of)

-----------------------------------------------------------
There's a widow in sleepy Chester
Who weeps for her only son;
There's a grave on the Pabeng River,
A grave that the Burmans shun;
And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri
Who tells how the work was done.

FREELANCERTEX

Friday, March 28, 2008 1:09 AM

that. is so lame..

LEOPARDFLAN

Friday, March 28, 2008 1:48 AM

Wow. Just... wow. How on earth does that make sense to anyone? Either of those? *stares bewilderedly*

#~%~~*~~~&~~~*~~%~#\/#~%~~*~~~&~~~*~~%~#

\~~~*~~^~~*~~~/$$\~~~*~~^~~*~~~/
98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature.

FAITHLOVESPURPLE

Friday, March 28, 2008 2:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Grizwald:
I love the juxtaposition of those two rants.

"Then the Pilot is raped by the First Mate."

LOL, falls off chair...wipes off tears of laughter...

omgisall

LOL--so funny I'm crying...

The femi-nazi's rant makes me cringe. People on any extreme makes it almost impossible for us to progress into a place where we can celebrate our differences as well as see each other as simply human.

--Faith

"I can't get it right...get it right...since I met you."

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Friday, March 28, 2008 3:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by traveler:
As for Zoe saying sir. This is actually brought up on the show. Joss does not waltz past this issue. Wash reminds Zoe to say sir because Mal likes it. So this issue is out in the open. Zoe served under Mal and also has a lot of respect for him so she uses sir from habit and Mal is the commander of the ship. In private matters Zoe has confronted Mal. She will show him her opinion when she feels he is wrong. Remember when Mal stuck his foot in his mouth about the dress Kaylee was admiring in the store window. Zoe's glare at Mal could have cut him half. She did not even have to say a word and Mal knew he had messed up big time. He also made up for it by taking Kaylee to the party. He could have taken Zoe.

So this person who wrote this piece really has blinders on.

Like many militant feminists, this person is blinded by ideological hatred.

That this person shows contempt for Zoe’s use of a formal title to refer to Mal demonstrates just a how little this person cares to understand the issue he or she is talking about. Zoe’s use of the word “Sir” for Mal helps to define her differently from Jayne. Both are soldiers, but Jayne is a soldier of fortune, not morality, who sees conflict and war only as a means to achieve his personal ends. Zoe is a soldier of sacrifice. She is selfless. She sees herself as a part of something bigger then herself - her captain and her crew - her family. She is not held to servitude by the “Man,” but rather chooses to devote her life to something that means more to her then herself. In almost every way, Zoe represents a real kind of feminism. She is a refreshing character. A woman not driven by her sensuality, but by her responsibly.

If you ask me, the militant feminist’s twisted view of the role of women in society, does more to demean women then empower them. The militant feminist would prefer that all women were selfish people acting only in their own interests, in other words self-conscious assholes, like Jayne. But Jayne is not a character that any reasonable person would hold up as the epitome of what a man should strive to be, so why are women so feeble and unscrupulous, in the eyes of militant feminists, that this should be epitome of what woman should strive to be? I say that if acts of selfless sacrifice and servitude to something greater then themselves is what constitutes a good and noble man, then this same criteria should apply to women. Whedon obviously agrees.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

JRC

Friday, March 28, 2008 3:24 AM

Anyone know why the link disappeared off whedonesque.com? I copied the link on my browser then went back to whedonesque and it's gone. I've been trying to spread the news about this story.

Everyone dies alone.

EMPIREX

Friday, March 28, 2008 5:10 AM

So, apparently I, as a white heterosexual female, can't form my own opinions and any of the ones I have are inherently wrong because I've been brainwashed by the patriarchal society I was brought up in? Seriously, that woman could find something racist and misogynistic about Big Bird, ya think?

While I've heard of hard-core feminism, I never knew what that meant. Now I understand.

Total. Whackos.

"Can you, for a moment, imagine how depressing it is to teach one thousand years of masculine ineptitude? Why do you think there are so few women historians? I'll tell you why. Because history is not such a frolic for women as it is for men... History is a commentary on the various and continuing incapabilities of men. History is women following behind with a bucket and a mop." - Alan Bennett, "The History Boys"

SIMONF

Friday, March 28, 2008 7:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by JRC:
Anyone know why the link disappeared off whedonesque.com? I copied the link on my browser then went back to whedonesque and it's gone. I've been trying to spread the news about this story.

I'm one of the admins there. To answer your question, firstly the article itself is a rant and not a pleasant one either. Secondly and more importantly the author of the article accuses Joss of raping his wife on the comments section of her LJ entry. So I have no desire to see this piece of crap linked at Whedonesque. It's nasty and nauseating and I will quite happily delete it if it keeps getting posted.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Friday, March 28, 2008 7:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by EmpireX:
So, apparently I, as a white heterosexual female, can't form my own opinions and any of the ones I have are inherently wrong because I've been brainwashed by the patriarchal society I was brought up in? Seriously, that woman could find something racist and misogynistic about Big Bird, ya think?

While I've heard of hard-core feminism, I never knew what that meant. Now I understand.

Total. Whackos.

Feminazi is the term. Rush was not making this stuff up.

JRC

Friday, March 28, 2008 7:53 AM

Simon, I'm jperiodrperiod on whedonesque. Thanks for replying. I totally agree with your statements. Just wondering what happened.

Everyone dies alone.

JOANNAHOBBIT

Friday, March 28, 2008 9:21 AM

Your right what a bitch.
This lady needs to get a life and a sense of humor. I mean if you don't like something, leave it alone and gees i thought Joss Wheedon's female characters where very strong headed unique individuals that won't take shit anyway.
Tell her to go watch little women, that would be more her taste and all she could handle.

I think Joss is the best writer out there and if we were going to pick on writers, i always wondered what Steven King would be if he didn't write books.It's called entertainment, you like it or you don't.

By the way, i got the comic today and i want more more more.I love it so very very very much. I could've sat down and read something bigger than a Harry Potter book.

God bless Joss Wheedon

Joanna G

JOANNAHOBBIT

Friday, March 28, 2008 9:26 AM

I stopped reading that there too, because it made me wanna cry if i read anymore.

Nasty nasty women. If i weren't a good christian lady i would suggest some terrible things.

Joanna G

JOANNAHOBBIT

Friday, March 28, 2008 9:31 AM

I agree. Women like her give women a bad name. I hate it when people like her try to talk on behalf of the rest of us. She needs to be duct taped and shoved in a hole for 2 months

that wasn't christian like thinking but it just shows how angry i am at her

Joanna G

YOSHOSEDAI

Friday, March 28, 2008 12:54 PM

Just finished readign through her screed, and aside from needing some brain bleach to burn out her ignorance her problem with the show would be solved if she understood the application of two things Saracasm and Irony but alas she has fallen victim to the condition my favorite talk show host Stephanie Miller calls "Stick up the Butt(or pigu liberal. Simply put nothing is funny and everything is taken at face value, what a sad way to view to world.

So, why do you write these strong female characters?

Because you're still asking me that question.

Joss Whedon-Equality Now acceptance speech

LCRUSSELL

Friday, March 28, 2008 1:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by pepperg:
http://users.livejournal.com/_allecto_/34718.html?view=259998#t259998

talk about unhinged

B]

Poor lil' thing...can you imagine being that bitter, angry and well...just plain stupid.

Obviously she watched a specially edited version of the series.

huh...well..that's another 2 minutes of my life I won't get back.

http://www.bigdanglarp.com/

Come Misbehave!

LCRUSSELL

Friday, March 28, 2008 1:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Yoshosedai:
Just finished readign through her screed, and aside from needing some brain bleach to burn out her ignorance her problem with the show would be solved if she understood the application of two things Saracasm and Irony but alas she has fallen victim to the condition my favorite talk show host Stephanie Miller calls "Stick up the Butt(or pigu liberal. Simply put nothing is funny and everything is taken at face value, what a sad way to view to world.

So, why do you write these strong female characters?

Because you're still asking me that question.

Joss Whedon-Equality Now acceptance speech

Could you please pass me a bit of that brain bleach if you happen to have any to spare. I'd like to bleach that post of hers right out of my mind.

http://www.bigdanglarp.com/

Come Misbehave!

YOSHOSEDAI

Friday, March 28, 2008 1:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by lcrussell:

Could you please pass me a bit of that brain bleach if you happen to have any to spare. I'd like to bleach that post of hers right out of my mind.

http://www.bigdanglarp.com/

Come Misbehave!

Sure, no problem, slides bottle of Brain-o across the forum.

So, why do you write these strong female characters?

Because you're still asking me that question.

Joss Whedon-Equality Now acceptance speech

YOSHOSEDAI

Friday, March 28, 2008 1:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by lcrussell:

Could you please pass me a bit of that brain bleach if you happen to have any to spare. I'd like to bleach that post of hers right out of my mind.

http://www.bigdanglarp.com/

Come Misbehave!

Sure, no problem, slides bottle of Brain-o across the forum.

So, why do you write these strong female characters?

Because you're still asking me that question.

Joss Whedon-Equality Now acceptance speech

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

Friday, March 28, 2008 2:03 PM

I would like to say that my wife, herself a feminist, read this article and stopped a quarter of the way through in disgust. Her comment to me was that the author is in no way in touch with true empowerment and is simply just someone who wants to be angry for the sake of being angry.

Do not fear me. Our's is a peaceful race and we must live in harmony.

MAL4PREZ

Friday, March 28, 2008 2:04 PM

OK, I'm a feminist, and I'm ready to jump all over fiction (or reality) that treat ladies poorly. But there's no need to go inventing stuff that doesn't exist!

This woman's got some hard core filters on, and she ain't seeing reality. Poor thing. Life must suck for her, if she sees something as brilliant and ground-breaking as Firefly the way she does.

Still, it bugs me that she calls herself a feminist. I hope all you Y chromosomes out there don't think we're all insane! I'll stand up for girls when they're treated poor, but the same goes for boys. The vast majority of men are good folks - as any decent feminist knows. The woman who wrote this blog is something else entirely.

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

LCRUSSELL

Friday, March 28, 2008 2:39 PM

I'm a human rights activist, she's.....whacko.

The southerners on the forum are about to start laughing....

Bless her heart...her momma didn't raise her well.
She just doesn't know any better.

(the three most damning phrases a southerner can utter)

http://bigdanglarp.com/

Come Misbehave!

LCRUSSELL

Friday, March 28, 2008 2:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Yoshosedai:

Sure, no problem, slides bottle of Brain-o across the forum.

So, why do you write these strong female characters?

Because you're still asking me that question.

Joss Whedon-Equality Now acceptance speech

Thank you sweetie!

http://bigdanglarp.com/

Come Misbehave!

JONDESU

Friday, March 28, 2008 3:08 PM

When she said that Joss rapes his wife, not only did I want to throw up, but I want to do one of two things: either I want to make sure Joss never knows that people think this about him because he doesn't deserve that, or I want to make sure he knows her full name and address so he can sue her for libel.

jW

"Yep, that went well."

KAYNA

Friday, March 28, 2008 3:25 PM

Ok, I'm a bit of a feminist and I have some fairly serious feminist friends they can't stand this type of feminazi. This is the type that wants physical standards for firefighters to be lowered so there are more women in the job, regardless of the fact that people's lives depend on those standards. Gives the rest of us a bad name.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could just put all the world's extremists together on an island and let them fight it out while the rest of us go about our lives?

Also, I couldn't get past the duct tape part. Just too much unreasonable anger and distortion.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Op: You're fighting a war you've already lost.
Mal: Yeah, well I'm known for that.

TANKOBITE

Friday, March 28, 2008 3:44 PM

Really the fire departments don't already do that? I know the Army's PT requirements are much less for women then mens (almost to the point where I think it should be offensive to women). I think that's a problem, especially considering the fact that many women in the military are being forced into actual combat situations (currently women aren't allowed in front line units to my knowledge) because of the asymmetrical nature of the conflicts going on today. Bad for them, bad for the men in their units.

-----------------------------------------------------------
There's a widow in sleepy Chester
Who weeps for her only son;
There's a grave on the Pabeng River,
A grave that the Burmans shun;
And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri
Who tells how the work was done.

KAYNA

Friday, March 28, 2008 4:02 PM

My understanding is that some do and some don't. It's not something I've checked into recently because it pi***s me off. If you don't have the strenght to haul my fat, unconcsious butt out of a burning building you shouldn't get that job. That's not equality. It's patronizing and it's stupid. That aplies to the military as well.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Op: You're fighting a war you've already lost.
Mal: Yeah, well I'm known for that.

VERTIGO

Friday, March 28, 2008 4:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kayna:
My understanding is that some do and some don't. It's not something I've checked into recently because it pi***s me off. If you don't have the strenght to haul my fat, unconcsious butt out of a burning building you shouldn't get that job. That's not equality. It's patronizing and it's stupid. That aplies to the military as well.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Op: You're fighting a war you've already lost.
Mal: Yeah, well I'm known for that.

You speak the truth..

Shiny.

http://fireflyseriesrp.proboards104.com">

>

EMPIREX

Friday, March 28, 2008 4:20 PM

HAHAHAA! LMAO! Here, here, Kayna!

"Can you, for a moment, imagine how depressing it is to teach one thousand years of masculine ineptitude? Why do you think there are so few women historians? I'll tell you why. Because history is not such a frolic for women as it is for men... History is a commentary on the various and continuing incapabilities of men. History is women following behind with a bucket and a mop." - Alan Bennett, "The History Boys"

AVENGINGWATCHER

Friday, March 28, 2008 5:28 PM

Well, at least the good news is that she won't procreate. Personally I like the show because the women are strong...but..hey someone mentions Stephanie Miller..I love her she is such a sweetheart and really nice in person...it's too bad the station carrying here here changed to a spanish radio channel and tanked because there were no hispanics listening to it.

I loved the reply LJ post...it was so cute...:)

When there are no heroes where will we turn?

ERGASTER

Friday, March 28, 2008 6:34 PM

That was downright bizarre.

There is only one rational response...

*points* allecto *laughs hysterically*

(I'll betcha Jayne gets an essay all to himself....)

DUN

Friday, March 28, 2008 8:29 PM

being a man of few words,ok someone got out of the wrong side of the bed

EMBERS

Friday, March 28, 2008 9:53 PM

okay, I thought I've heard some reviewers before who did not understand what they saw...
but man o man...this woman is seriously twisted!

I would have taken it as a joke, except for the whole not being funny thing.

sigh

Sometimes I despair of finding intelligent life on this planet.

New Firefly fans should check this out: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=15816

CONSTANCE

Friday, March 28, 2008 10:27 PM

Wow... I guess there really are more than one way to see things... at least she had watched the show closely, I'll give her that. But she still missed the point(s). again I say wow..

Constance

TRAVELER

Friday, March 28, 2008 11:11 PM

hello bluesuncompanyman:

Quote:
Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:
I would like to say that my wife, herself a feminist, read this article and stopped a quarter of the way through in disgust. Her comment to me was that the author is in no way in touch with true empowerment and is simply just someone who wants to be angry for the sake of being angry.

Do not fear me. Our's is a peaceful race and we must live in harmony.

Your wife makes a good point. This person does this deliberately. She just wants attention and this give it to her. People, like her, will pick an insane stance and defend it with twisted ideas just to get people riled up. I am sure she gets pleasure out of it. A true sadist. Anyone who would attempt to debate her would only feed her ego. She cares little about the truth. That gets her nowhere. She must be fun to live with.

http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=28764731
Traveler

CITIZEN

Friday, March 28, 2008 11:13 PM

Define irony:
A misandrist declaring the vilification of all members of one sex wrong.

In reference to Buffy the Vampire Slayer, it is replete with examples of strong female characters, from the literally physically strongest leader and 'hero' of the story Buffy, to the indisputably most intelligent character Willow. In contrast the men are portrayed as flawed, bumbling buffoons, who spend most of their time being rescued by the previously mentioned females. In a lot of ways its a 1950's vampire B movie turned on its head. In that respect there could be an argument for it not being feminist, because its arguably past feminism and into the realms of misandry.

Of course to someone who sees Buffy the Vampire Slayer as non-feminist, FireFly is going to feel like borderline misogyny. It does after all, show strong male characters along side the strong female one's, *gasp*! The problem with FireFly is its setting, its placed in a 'space western' universe, it's explained rather better than I can in Finding Serenity by Jane Espenson, but essentially the Western is very much a genre hinging on old fashioned chivalry, which somewhat hamstrings the feminist, or rather 'equality of the sexes' message, at any rate its old ground.

It does seem to be a lazy analysis to me, not because a lot of time or energy hasn't been spent on it, but because no insight has been gained, no actual analysis has taken place. The author has rather obviously approached the subject wishing to prove what they already knew, that Joss Whedon isn't a feminist, of course how could he, a man, be. All this article really shows is confirmation bias as it pertains to bigotry: replace men with Jew and you've got something written by Heinrich Himmler.

Which is really the point. She plays lip service to empowering women, but really she wants to oppress them as much as she wishes to oppress men. Reading the comments it's clear that she considers that all Women are really Lesbians, forced into heterosexual relationships by men, who, as we also find out, are all rapists. Apparently any male initiated sexual act, even consensual, is rape. She's not after empowerment of women, she's after homogenisation of women, all women have to be just like her. Basically what it's about is forcing the correct choices on Women, this might sound like the same thing as a oppressive patriarchy, but it's not because they're the correct choices, see.

Feminism is, apparently all about preventing women from making their own choices, being that women can't be trusted to do so. This from a real feminist?

Feminism is not misandry, it is not an outward hatred of all men, it is not openly bigoted statements like "I really am beyond worried about how much men hate us" (if anyone has a problem with my statement that, that is bigoted, I'd ask when it was they asked all men how they feel about women), and it is most certainly not a belief that women can't be trusted to make their own decisions. Its a terrible shame that the nobility of feminism is increasingly being co-opted by those who wish to oppress men rather than gain equality for women, and in that respect feminism has failed. Feminism aimed to stop men from objectifying women, but the strip clubs remain open, but in true equality women are now encouraged to, and do, objectify men in the same manner. Feminism aimed to eradicate misogyny, and has certainly succeeded in reducing it and rightfully vilifying it, but in return there has been a meteoric rise in misandry, women seeing men in the way misogynists see women. Perhaps the most disturbing facet of that is how misandry isn't also vilified, but almost encouraged and lauded openly in some circles. Feminism's success in getting women to ape some of the behaviours of men, that it was aiming to eliminate, has certainly lead to a form of equality, if a rather dystopic one.

It is, nonetheless an interesting critique on the Human condition, I weep for the species.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!

EMBERS

Saturday, March 29, 2008 1:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Define irony:
A misandrist declaring the vilification of all members of one sex wrong.

In reference to Buffy the Vampire Slayer, it is replete with examples of strong female characters, from the literally physically strongest leader and 'hero' of the story Buffy, to the indisputably most intelligent character Willow. In contrast the men are portrayed as flawed, bumbling buffoons, who spend most of their time being rescued by the previously mentioned females. In a lot of ways its a 1950's vampire B movie turned on its head. In that respect there could be an argument for it not being feminist, because its arguably past feminism and into the realms of misandry.

Oh Citizen, I think you are going a little too far in the other direction! I mean of course Buffy does all the hero/champion stuff since it is her show...
but no one can deny that Xander is one of the kindest and most loyal of men,
and that Giles is brilliant, they are both people I would want in my life... which wouldn't be true if they were only bumbling buffoons.

It is true that there have been more evil men on Buffy: The Master, the Mayor, Warren, and Caleb...
but there WERE some evil women (personally I found Maggie Walsh scarier than Glorificus, but that is just me).

New Firefly fans should check this out: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=15816

JRC

Saturday, March 29, 2008 9:09 AM

Someone made a comment asking if she was going to analyze "Objects In Space". This is her reply:

"Yes, I plan to. I found Objects in Space to be horrifically racist. I can't believe that Joss was allowed to air a show that had such a terrible portrayal of Black men. I also found the portrayal of the Black man in the movie Serenity to be pretty horrifying too."

It's also quite funny how she has replied to only a select few people.

Everyone dies alone.

CITIZEN

Saturday, March 29, 2008 10:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by embers:
Oh Citizen, I think you are going a little too far in the other direction! I mean of course Buffy does all the hero/champion stuff since it is her show... but no one can deny that Xander is one of the kindest and most loyal of men, and that Giles is brilliant, they are both people I would want in my life... which wouldn't be true if they were only bumbling buffoons.

I didn't say they were only bumbling buffoons, just that they were. In direct reference to Xander, in actual unique attributes he didn't really have anything, his contribution was often giving the gang someone to save. In that respect he was Buffy the Vampire Slayers answer to the Heroine of many 50's B movies, whose place was to be loyal and loving to the hero, then scream dramatically before being captured by the villain and giving the hero someone to rescue.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

EMBERS

Saturday, March 29, 2008 2:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
In direct reference to Xander, in actual unique attributes he didn't really have anything, his contribution was often giving the gang someone to save. In that respect he was Buffy the Vampire Slayers answer to the Heroine of many 50's B movies, whose place was to be loyal and loving to the hero, then scream dramatically before being captured by the villain and giving the hero someone to rescue.

but for anyone who has ever seen Joss Whedon it is pretty obvious that Xander is our 'Joss' character (dressing in T-shirt with open shirt over it, cracking stupid jokes, while being pretty helpless in a crisis...).

My point was that Xander isn't an example of misandry (simply NOT giving him super powers is not a hatred of men) any more than Zoe would be an example of misogyny (they couldn't ALL get to be captain). I was just objecting to the extreme wording is all.

CITIZEN

Saturday, March 29, 2008 4:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by embers:
My point was that Xander isn't an example of misandry (simply NOT giving him super powers is not a hatred of men) any more than Zoe would be an example of misogyny (they couldn't ALL get to be captain). I was just objecting to the extreme wording is all.

Neither do I, which is why I said "the argument could be made". It is, however, somewhat closer to misandry than Firefly is to misogyny, or Joss is to a rapist.

I would say, though that in a lot of ways Buffy paints Men as less than equal to Women. I maintain that Buffy is the gender roles of an atypical b movie turned on their head.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

CYBERSNARK

Saturday, March 29, 2008 5:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by embers:
My point was that Xander isn't an example of misandry

Now, Jayne, he'd be an example of misandry.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

MAL4PREZ

Saturday, March 29, 2008 5:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
I would say, though that in a lot of ways Buffy paints Men as less than equal to Women.

I doubt even Joss would deny this. He's said that his interest is in strength in women and weakness in men. That's pretty blatant in his shows, and I think it's purposely done. I don't think he'd apologize for it.

I mean, Buffy is all about reversing assumed gender roles. Joss has said that his idea started with wanting the usual horror scene where the scared little blonde chick goes into the dark alley (almost always stalked by a *male* monster, btw) but then - whoa! She comes out the victor with the monster dead or running in fear.

So yeah, Buffy does draw men as less than women, but that's as a challenge to the viewers. We've been fed shows with strong men and helpless women forever - can we accept the opposite? Maybe there's a shade of gender affirmative action to it. I get that not everyone's a fan of that.

Edit: OK, not fair! You added the last sentence to your post after I hit reply. It says everything in my post, but much more simply. At least I know we agree LOL!

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

EMBERS

Saturday, March 29, 2008 5:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark:
Quote:
Originally posted by embers:
My point was that Xander isn't an example of misandry

Now, Jayne, he'd be an example of misandry.

oh but I love Jayne soooo much!
he is like the perfect man!
you know, except for the stupid, untrustworthy part...

And yeah, Mal4Prez and Citizen, I think we are all on the same page here...
the page that says that the crackpot who wrote that ugly blog is certifiable!

New Firefly fans should check this out: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=15816

CITIZEN

Saturday, March 29, 2008 5:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
I doubt even Joss would deny this. He's said that his interest is in strength in women and weakness in men. That's pretty blatant in his shows, and I think it's purposely done. I don't think he'd apologize for it.

Whose asking him to apologise? I'm not an angry white homosexual homophobe, who is struggling to come to terms with their racism and sexism

. I say it only to highlight the absurdity of the misogyny accusation.

Quote:
Edit: OK, not fair! You added the last sentence to your post after I hit reply. It says everything in my post, but much more simply. At least I know we agree LOL!

I certainly added it in, but some time before you posted, it was pretty much straight away after I made my post and thought it needed some clarification (well, almost, my computer crashed a bit and I had to log back in). I would have added an edit tag, but no one had posted by the time, so I assumed no one had read my post yet.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

STINKINGROSE

Saturday, March 29, 2008 6:17 PM

Thank you for using your powers of deletion judiciously.

One word can pretty much sum up what I could be bothered to read of that first rant (it does not qualify as a reasoned discourse):

Imbalanced.

It may well also describe the author.

Apparently a woman having sex with a man automatically qualifies as "rape". Womynkind should all free themselves from their enslaving uteruses and never sully themselves with male influences again.
Any woman who finds that she is attracted to men at all sexually should immediately seek psychiatric assistance, as she is obviously brainwashed by the dominant misogynist culture.

When my husband gets home he is in for a heap of trouble... the nerve of that penis-wielding torturer! Wait, I have a son! What have I done to the world of fems?! I bore a Y-chromosome carrying parasite in my enslaving womb and have now wreaked unimaginable evil on future generations of my sistren!!
Perhaps if I rebelled against my oppressors and removed every single disgusting male from the face of the man-raped planet it could begin to make amends for the scourge I have unleashed! Everything with a penis must DIE!!!!!

(Sorry, was that a tad overdone?)

HKCAVALIER

Saturday, March 29, 2008 6:27 PM

The big problem for me with this kind of "art criticism" is that it displays no ability to distinguish between subject matter and the artist's opinions. It reduces all art to the level of advertising--it's either propaganda for Ms. Alecto's cause or it's propaganda for her enemies. It's Stalinist when you get right down to it.

This woman, as I see her, is not an appreciator of art, but a self-perceived victim of it. Posts like hers are a way of achieving some kind of revenge, some kind of dominance over the art and the artist. I mean, for cryin' outloud, if you read on down the page of comments, she admits to never having witnessed a heterosexual relationship that wasn't some kind of rape.

What makes Joss's vision feminist is not that he only depicts women as powerful, mentally solid überfrauen but that he sees into their predicaments, whatever they are, with such empathy and insight. One cannot deny that one of Joss's principle subjects is misogyny. I want to ask Alecto how one is to depict misogyny without, y'know, depicting it.

As noted above, Firefly is dystopic. In Alecto's logic that would suggest that Joss hates humanity. However, that Joss would depict a future that is so bleak does not mean that he thinks human beings are hopelessly wedded to evil, it only demonstrates that Joss is generous and courageous enough as an artist to share with us his worst fears and to bring humor and humanity to the telling.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

CHRISISALL

Saturday, March 29, 2008 6:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by stinkingrose:

When my husband gets home he is in for a heap of trouble... the nerve of that penis-wielding torturer!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!

Chrisisall, lol

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Saturday, March 29, 2008 7:01 PM

Very well stated HK. Though I'm not quite sure how you're using "Stalinist," but other then that, very well said.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

MUGGI

Saturday, March 29, 2008 8:32 PM

Wow.

Perfect example of the difference between wanting equality and radical feminism, or "feminist-lite" as the author calls it. This woman does not want women treated equally, she wants a matriarchal society.

What bothered me about the article was her obvious nitpicking of certain lines and interactions with no concept of context. I mean, she rails against Zoe for calling Mal "Sir", but completely disregards the history or position of the two. She berates Mal for telling Zoe to "shut up", when Mal needed to get a word to Wash.

It's the "blinders effect" in full force: everything said to, about, or by women is a direct reflection on their sex. Here's a tip for future viewing: it's not. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

It makes me very sad, as people like her are one of the things that stand in the way of women getting true equality in our society.

HKCAVALIER

Saturday, March 29, 2008 9:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Though I'm not quite sure how you're using "Stalinist," but other then that, very well said.

Oh, I was thinking of "socialist realism," State art that promotes the state. In Alecto's case, the state is radical feminism. Thanks for your kind words, Finn.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

MAL4PREZ

Saturday, March 29, 2008 10:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Whose asking him to apologise? I'm not an angry white homosexual homophobe, who is struggling to come to terms with their racism and sexism . I say it only to highlight the absurdity of the misogyny accusation.

Yeah, sorry cit. I wasn't meaning to aim a rant at you. Your post set me onto my own tangent re Joss's treatment of gender roles, which I find so interesting. Well, ok, and I wasn't sure if the thread was going to go into some: "women are stronger than men on Buffy and that's not fair!" thing, which your added sentence made clear was not at all what you meant.

Stinkingrose - You are too funny! Kill all penis attachments! Grrr! Argh!

HK - such a good point. The crazy blogger should consider that a show depicting a victimized woman does not mean the writer likes things that way. The Inara situation is a good example - is a Companion empowered or taken advantage of? I don't think Joss makes that judgement for us; he only puts the question out there for us to ponder.

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

BORIS

Sunday, March 30, 2008 12:52 AM

Bugger me! (that's the least rude thing I could say after reading the so called "feminist rant") It's disturbing how some people can fully mis comprehend something, and then turn it into something else that is hideously distorted! obviously this person is suffering from some acute disempowerment issues...or she's intellectually deficient, and is in denial of the fact. It's also possible that she has had experiences with men that were so ugly it has coloured her interpretation.( if that's the case I am sorry for her) Let's hope she is not in a position to influence anyone else with her opinion, as if this is how she misinterprets Firefly, imagine how profoundly she may misinterpret real world situations.

BORIS

Sunday, March 30, 2008 1:02 AM

She's such a Racist.I had never considered the significance of the racial background of any of the characters in Joss Whedon's shows...because race doesn't matter in his worlds...which is the way it should be. "rant bitch" is obviously a racist, obviously unworldly, and obviously someone who is going through a serious self errosion process. Anyone who hates that vehemently is headed for hell in their own brain territory.

KAYNA

Sunday, March 30, 2008 10:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JRC:
Someone made a comment asking if she was going to analyze "Objects In Space". This is her reply:

"Yes, I plan to. I found Objects in Space to be horrifically racist. I can't believe that Joss was allowed to air a show that had such a terrible portrayal of Black men. I also found the portrayal of the Black man in the movie Serenity to be pretty horrifying too."

It's also quite funny how she has replied to only a select few people.

It's both sad and fascinating how she defines racism as a black man in the role of an antagonist. All I saw were interesting chracters being played wonderfully. They could just as easily have been white men and she wouldn't have had any issues with racism them. She doesn't seem to realize that you can be racist to people of any race. In this case though, it's not about color, it's about acting ability. And at least the Operative had ideals and convictions, unlike some of Firefly's caucasion villans (Badger).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Op: You're fighting a war you've already lost.
Mal: Yeah, well I'm known for that.

JOANNAHOBBIT

Monday, March 31, 2008 3:13 AM

I think Joss Wheedon should sue her ass for these accusations against her and then use the money to make a new series of Firefly just to really piss her of and make us incrediblly happy.

I don't think she has the right to call herself any thing because in any culture she is just plain vindictive.

Joanna G

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Monday, March 31, 2008 4:59 AM

There are times when it seems that some of these feminazis consider "feminist" and "lesbian" to be redundant, interchangeable terms.

JOANNAHOBBIT

Monday, March 31, 2008 5:54 AM

I think i might be incrediblyy slow but check this out this video about a Serenity 2

Joanna G

SPINEBITE

Monday, March 31, 2008 9:40 PM

WHOOO!!!! Serenity 2!!!!! Hopefully the video is right and Universal is seriously considering it, instead of just handing out false hope.

About the distorted views on Firefly: that woman is seriously crazy. Like 'belongs in a looney bin' crazy. Mal never tells nor told Zoe to shut up in ANY episode, and there is no racism whatsoever in the series. And about the 'duct tape' comment, Mal is obviously joking. This phsyco is taking Firefly and twisting it to her own sick, twisted, bizarre ends.

"This is the captain. We may experience some slight turbulence...then explode."

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Monday, March 31, 2008 9:58 PM

This woman is an idiot. For lack of a more politically correct term. She is precisely the type that gives actual feminists a bad name.

I already have 7 pages of notes I shall post on her site.

Give me something to do at work.

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original

SHUKES

Tuesday, April 1, 2008 12:07 AM

Was using stumble upon and i found this picture, thought some of you might enjoy it:

PARALIAN

Tuesday, April 1, 2008 1:51 AM

I see her point in a couple of places, but it doesn't really bother me.

You know what she expects? A perfect world, a world without sin.

It's not like Whedon is saying his characters are all shiny. I really don't think any discrimination is a very big deal or a very big part of the story at all.

There are so many good things about Firefly that she didn't mention.

<3 Chiya
http://chiya.crisp-breeze.org

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Tuesday, April 1, 2008 5:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by spinebite:
WHOOO!!!! Serenity 2!!!!! Hopefully the video is right and Universal is seriously considering it, instead of just handing out false hope.

About the distorted views on Firefly: that woman is seriously crazy. Like 'belongs in a looney bin' crazy. Mal never tells nor told Zoe to shut up in ANY episode, and there is no racism whatsoever in the series.

Unless I am mistaken, Mal says Shut up! in the Pilot. When they are scavenging the Carrier and the Alliance ship comes by, Zoe says something, and then Mal says "Shut Up!" effectivekly to everybody, then says something like be quiet, and Wash, shut it down. Of course we all missed Joss's intentions because we did not think of Mal as "he-man White honky" nor Zoe as "submissive slave woman black subordinant" which was apparently obvious to all but us.

I wonder what the crazy feminazi thought when Mal asked Wash "you mean she vowed to obey?" and something like "how does that work?"

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Tuesday, April 1, 2008 5:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Define irony:
A misandrist declaring the vilification of all members of one sex wrong.

In reference to Buffy the Vampire Slayer, it is replete with examples of strong female characters, from the literally physically strongest leader and 'hero' of the story Buffy, to the indisputably most intelligent character Willow. In contrast the men are portrayed as flawed, bumbling buffoons, who spend most of their time being rescued by the previously mentioned females. In a lot of ways its a 1950's vampire B movie turned on its head. In that respect there could be an argument for it not being feminist, because its arguably past feminism and into the realms of misandry.

Of course to someone who sees Buffy the Vampire Slayer as non-feminist, FireFly is going to feel like borderline misogyny. It does after all, show strong male characters along side the strong female one's, *gasp*! The problem with FireFly is its setting, its placed in a 'space western' universe, it's explained rather better than I can in Finding Serenity by Jane Espenson, but essentially the Western is very much a genre hinging on old fashioned chivalry, which somewhat hamstrings the feminist, or rather 'equality of the sexes' message, at any rate its old ground.

It does seem to be a lazy analysis to me, not because a lot of time or energy hasn't been spent on it, but because no insight has been gained, no actual analysis has taken place. The author has rather obviously approached the subject wishing to prove what they already knew, that Joss Whedon isn't a feminist, of course how could he, a man, be. All this article really shows is confirmation bias as it pertains to bigotry: replace men with Jew and you've got something written by Heinrich Himmler.

Which is really the point. She plays lip service to empowering women, but really she wants to oppress them as much as she wishes to oppress men. Reading the comments it's clear that she considers that all Women are really Lesbians, forced into heterosexual relationships by men, who, as we also find out, are all rapists. Apparently any male initiated sexual act, even consensual, is rape. She's not after empowerment of women, she's after homogenisation of women, all women have to be just like her. Basically what it's about is forcing the correct choices on Women, this might sound like the same thing as a oppressive patriarchy, but it's not because they're the correct choices, see.

Feminism is, apparently all about preventing women from making their own choices, being that women can't be trusted to do so. This from a real feminist?

Feminism is not misandry, it is not an outward hatred of all men, it is not openly bigoted statements like "I really am beyond worried about how much men hate us" (if anyone has a problem with my statement that, that is bigoted, I'd ask when it was they asked all men how they feel about women), and it is most certainly not a belief that women can't be trusted to make their own decisions. Its a terrible shame that the nobility of feminism is increasingly being co-opted by those who wish to oppress men rather than gain equality for women, and in that respect feminism has failed. Feminism aimed to stop men from objectifying women, but the strip clubs remain open, but in true equality women are now encouraged to, and do, objectify men in the same manner. Feminism aimed to eradicate misogyny, and has certainly succeeded in reducing it and rightfully vilifying it, but in return there has been a meteoric rise in misandry, women seeing men in the way misogynists see women. Perhaps the most disturbing facet of that is how misandry isn't also vilified, but almost encouraged and lauded openly in some circles. Feminism's success in getting women to ape some of the behaviours of men, that it was aiming to eliminate, has certainly lead to a form of equality, if a rather dystopic one.

It is, nonetheless an interesting critique on the Human condition, I weep for the species.

More insane ramblings by the peopl

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CANTER

Tuesday, April 1, 2008 6:29 PM

I didn't read the whole rant. Only the first page.

Surely no sane person could keep a straight face while reading such bile?

But the comments are even more disquiting. She actually has people AGREEING with her!!

The saddest one is this:

“Sometimes you just wanna DUCT TAPE HER MOUTH and DUMP HER IN THE HOLD FOR A MONTH.”

This is appalling. I think this calls for a pretty vicious rant and important action alert.

An important action alert.

O. M. G.

Big Damn Browncoat Vote http://richlabonte.net/tvvote/index.html

MAL4PREZ

Tuesday, April 1, 2008 7:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Define irony:
A misandrist declaring the vilification of all members of one sex wrong.
Well, I for one don;t think anything else needs to be said on the matter. citizen has put it exactly right!

Indeed - I completely missed this post first time around. My apologies for repeating your argument less eloquently Cit!

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