distorted 'feminist' view of firefly
POSTED BY: pepperg
UPDATED: Tuesday, April 1, 2008 19:08
VIEWED: 32584
PAGE 8 of 10
Quote:I didn't say they were only bumbling buffoons, just that they were. In direct reference to Xander, in actual unique attributes he didn't really have anything, his contribution was often giving the gang someone to save. In that respect he was Buffy the Vampire Slayers answer to the Heroine of many 50's B movies, whose place was to be loyal and loving to the hero, then scream dramatically before being captured by the villain and giving the hero someone to rescue.
Originally posted by embers:
Oh Citizen, I think you are going a little too far in the other direction! I mean of course Buffy does all the hero/champion stuff since it is her show... but no one can deny that Xander is one of the kindest and most loyal of men, and that Giles is brilliant, they are both people I would want in my life... which wouldn't be true if they were only bumbling buffoons.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
In direct reference to Xander, in actual unique attributes he didn't really have anything, his contribution was often giving the gang someone to save. In that respect he was Buffy the Vampire Slayers answer to the Heroine of many 50's B movies, whose place was to be loyal and loving to the hero, then scream dramatically before being captured by the villain and giving the hero someone to rescue.
but for anyone who has ever seen Joss Whedon it is pretty obvious that Xander is our 'Joss' character (dressing in T-shirt with open shirt over it, cracking stupid jokes, while being pretty helpless in a crisis...).
My point was that Xander isn't an example of misandry (simply NOT giving him super powers is not a hatred of men) any more than Zoe would be an example of misogyny (they couldn't ALL get to be captain). I was just objecting to the extreme wording is all.
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Quote:Neither do I, which is why I said "the argument could be made". It is, however, somewhat closer to misandry than Firefly is to misogyny, or Joss is to a rapist.
Originally posted by embers:
My point was that Xander isn't an example of misandry (simply NOT giving him super powers is not a hatred of men) any more than Zoe would be an example of misogyny (they couldn't ALL get to be captain). I was just objecting to the extreme wording is all.
I would say, though that in a lot of ways Buffy paints Men as less than equal to Women. I maintain that Buffy is the gender roles of an atypical b movie turned on their head.
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Quote:
Originally posted by embers:
My point was that Xander isn't an example of misandry
Now, Jayne, he'd be an example of misandry.
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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.
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Quote:I doubt even Joss would deny this. He's said that his interest is in strength in women and weakness in men. That's pretty blatant in his shows, and I think it's purposely done. I don't think he'd apologize for it.
Originally posted by citizen:
I would say, though that in a lot of ways Buffy paints Men as less than equal to Women.
I mean, Buffy is all about reversing assumed gender roles. Joss has said that his idea started with wanting the usual horror scene where the scared little blonde chick goes into the dark alley (almost always stalked by a *male* monster, btw) but then - whoa! She comes out the victor with the monster dead or running in fear.
So yeah, Buffy does draw men as less than women, but that's as a challenge to the viewers. We've been fed shows with strong men and helpless women forever - can we accept the opposite? Maybe there's a shade of gender affirmative action to it. I get that not everyone's a fan of that.
Edit: OK, not fair! You added the last sentence to your post after I hit reply. It says everything in my post, but much more simply. At least I know we agree LOL!
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hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark:Quote:
Originally posted by embers:
My point was that Xander isn't an example of misandry
Now, Jayne, he'd be an example of misandry.
oh but I love Jayne soooo much!
he is like the perfect man!
you know, except for the stupid, untrustworthy part...
And yeah, Mal4Prez and Citizen, I think we are all on the same page here...
the page that says that the crackpot who wrote that ugly blog is certifiable!
New Firefly fans should check this out: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=15816
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Quote:Whose asking him to apologise? I'm not an angry white homosexual homophobe, who is struggling to come to terms with their racism and sexism
Originally posted by mal4prez:
I doubt even Joss would deny this. He's said that his interest is in strength in women and weakness in men. That's pretty blatant in his shows, and I think it's purposely done. I don't think he'd apologize for it.
. I say it only to highlight the absurdity of the misogyny accusation.Quote:I certainly added it in, but some time before you posted, it was pretty much straight away after I made my post and thought it needed some clarification (well, almost, my computer crashed a bit and I had to log back in). I would have added an edit tag, but no one had posted by the time, so I assumed no one had read my post yet.
Edit: OK, not fair! You added the last sentence to your post after I hit reply. It says everything in my post, but much more simply. At least I know we agree LOL!
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Thank you for using your powers of deletion judiciously.
One word can pretty much sum up what I could be bothered to read of that first rant (it does not qualify as a reasoned discourse):
Imbalanced.
It may well also describe the author.
Apparently a woman having sex with a man automatically qualifies as "rape". Womynkind should all free themselves from their enslaving uteruses and never sully themselves with male influences again.
Any woman who finds that she is attracted to men at all sexually should immediately seek psychiatric assistance, as she is obviously brainwashed by the dominant misogynist culture.
When my husband gets home he is in for a heap of trouble... the nerve of that penis-wielding torturer! Wait, I have a son! What have I done to the world of fems?! I bore a Y-chromosome carrying parasite in my enslaving womb and have now wreaked unimaginable evil on future generations of my sistren!!
Perhaps if I rebelled against my oppressors and removed every single disgusting male from the face of the man-raped planet it could begin to make amends for the scourge I have unleashed! Everything with a penis must DIE!!!!!
(Sorry, was that a tad overdone?)
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The big problem for me with this kind of "art criticism" is that it displays no ability to distinguish between subject matter and the artist's opinions. It reduces all art to the level of advertising--it's either propaganda for Ms. Alecto's cause or it's propaganda for her enemies. It's Stalinist when you get right down to it.
This woman, as I see her, is not an appreciator of art, but a self-perceived victim of it. Posts like hers are a way of achieving some kind of revenge, some kind of dominance over the art and the artist. I mean, for cryin' outloud, if you read on down the page of comments, she admits to never having witnessed a heterosexual relationship that wasn't some kind of rape.
What makes Joss's vision feminist is not that he only depicts women as powerful, mentally solid überfrauen but that he sees into their predicaments, whatever they are, with such empathy and insight. One cannot deny that one of Joss's principle subjects is misogyny. I want to ask Alecto how one is to depict misogyny without, y'know, depicting it.
As noted above, Firefly is dystopic. In Alecto's logic that would suggest that Joss hates humanity. However, that Joss would depict a future that is so bleak does not mean that he thinks human beings are hopelessly wedded to evil, it only demonstrates that Joss is generous and courageous enough as an artist to share with us his worst fears and to bring humor and humanity to the telling.
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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Quote:BWAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!
Originally posted by stinkingrose:
When my husband gets home he is in for a heap of trouble... the nerve of that penis-wielding torturer!
Chrisisall, lol
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