Cheney goes on a rampage!!

POSTED BY: Khyron
UPDATED: Friday, May 14, 2021 03:27
VIEWED: 21041
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KHYRON

Sunday, February 12, 2006 9:33 PM

Well, maybe what he did wasn't as bad as that, but he did accidentally shoot and injure someone. Still, he should be kicked out of office for that, right!?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4707354.stm

AURAPTOR

Sunday, February 12, 2006 9:49 PM

Quote:
Still, he should be kicked out of office for that, right!?

Why?

And how is an accidental shooting viewed by you as " going on a rampage" ?? Quite the drama queen now, aren't we?

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

KHYRON

Sunday, February 12, 2006 9:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Still, he should be kicked out of office for that, right!?

Why?

Well... because... you know... err... he should. It's just... yeah... aw hell, any reason would be fine with me, as long as they kick him out (which they of course won't, but here's hoping).

OLDENGLANDDRY

Sunday, February 12, 2006 10:12 PM

Just put it down to collateral damage.

OLDENGLANDDRY

Sunday, February 12, 2006 10:15 PM

AURAPTOR

Sunday, February 12, 2006 11:41 PM

Kick him out of one particular hunting club, perhaps.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

FLETCH2

Monday, February 13, 2006 12:08 AM

Hey he's just doing his bit to lower the social security bill ...... one senior at a time!

CHRISISALL

Monday, February 13, 2006 12:44 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fletch2:
Hey he's just doing his bit to lower the social security bill ...... one senior at a time!

Well, that didn't take long. I had hoped to see more personal, real life comments here, instead of the standard political rhetoric.

Chrisisall

CYBERSNARK

Monday, February 13, 2006 12:54 AM

http://news.yahoo.com/fc/us/bush_administration

I like how the Yahoo news article specifies that the victim is "a millionaire attorney."

Rich and a lawyer. That somehow makes it even funnier ('cause I don't mind laughing at the rich, or lawyers).

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

Such an appropriate sig.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

CHRISISALL

Monday, February 13, 2006 1:04 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark:

We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

Well, that didn't take long. I had hoped to see more personal, real life comments here, instead of the standard political rhetoric.

Hey, this quote has multiple uses! Fits any occasion!

" He don't like it when you shoot facts at 'em. I worked that out myself. "Chrisisall

DREAMTROVE

Monday, February 13, 2006 1:24 AM

Hunting accidents are really extremely rare. Statistically, it would be hard to credit. I know Cheney is incredibly paranoid, and that could play into it, but maybe he actually wanted to shoot the guy. I'm not Mr. Cheney's biggest fan, so maybe I'm not objective, but we have hunting accidents here, it's not something that 'just happens.' People involved are usually drunken teenagers, and further investigation often leads to the word 'accident' being called into question. Actual accidents do happen, but they certainly aren't this common that it's randomly going to happen to the leader of the decreasingly free world.

I remember there was a president or a vice president with a boating accident once.

HIXIE129

Monday, February 13, 2006 3:07 AM

could've shot Bush?

DREAMTROVE

Monday, February 13, 2006 3:17 AM

Quote:
could've shot Bush?

I don't think Bush actually gets away from the TV for long enough to go on a hunting trip. He'd make it as far as the photo-op.

DREAMTROVE

Monday, February 13, 2006 3:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Chrisisall:
Well, that didn't take long. I had hoped to see more personal, real life comments here, instead of the standard political rhetoric.

Well, that didn't take long. I had hoped to see more personal, real life comments here, instead of the standard political rhetoric.

PIRATENEWS

Monday, February 13, 2006 4:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Quote:
could've shot Bush?

I don't think Bush actually gets away from the TV for long enough to go on a hunting trip. He'd make it as far as the photo-op.

I always suspected Cheney was the Lone Gunman.

2-time DUI convict Cheney dodges deputies for 12 hours.

Psycho serial killers play The Most Dangerous Game.

VIDEO DOWNLOAD: Cheney shoots lawyer in head.
MSNBC: Andrea Mitchell, wife of Sir Alan Greenspan Knight of the British Empire at Fed Reserve Bankster Corporation that counterfeits all "money" is USA, is tasked with major coverup of Cheney's drunken shooting binge.
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/02/8519.php

Video Downloads: Daily Show & Hardball
http://crooksandliars.com

Bush is busy playing Brokeback Mountin', and hiding from Poppy Bush and Cheney's Most Dangerous Game of huntin' nekked MKULTRA sex slaves, both male and female, adult and child.
http://fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=18&t=17305&m=248348#248348

CSPAN VIDEO DOWNLOAD: Desperate White House wife Laura Bush admits George Junior masterbates male horses - President Bush gives his opening speech at the White House Correspondents Dinner, but it is quickly taken over by the adulterous drug-dealing lesbian fag-hag First Lady
http://thepoliticalteen.net/2005/04/30/president-bush-first-lady-white
-house-correspondents-dinner-video/

VIDEO DOWNLOAD: Gay drunk Bush Junior playin' "ride 'em cowboy"
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/12/7966.php
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/12/7971.php

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FLETCH2

Monday, February 13, 2006 5:45 AM

Well, that didn't take long. I had hoped to see standard political rhetoric here, instead of the more personal, real life comments.

SIGNYM

Monday, February 13, 2006 6:10 AM

Bwahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!

My dream is that Cheney and Bush go duck-hunting together with high powered rifles...

Oh, wrong thread!

DREAMTROVE

Monday, February 13, 2006 6:21 AM

Cheney should take Bin Laden on a hunting trip. Two men enter, one man leaves.

ZISKER

Monday, February 13, 2006 2:20 PM

With a crack squad of marksmen waiting nearby no matter what the outcome?

This just supports my theory that the Cheny-Bot is, in actuality, a Cylon.

But seriously, at least they didn't cover this up - I'll give their PR people that. Perhaps it's environmental karma or some such.

In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and is widely regarded as a bad move. - Douglas Adams

HERO

Monday, February 13, 2006 2:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:
Well, maybe what he did wasn't as bad as that, but he did accidentally shoot and injure someone. Still, he should be kicked out of office for that, right!?

I wanted to point out, since everyone seems to have skipped this day in grade school, Cheney is not the first sitting VP to shoot someone.

Quote:

...a challenge was issued by Burr and accepted. The principals and seconds met at dawn on July 11, 1804, under the shadow of the Palisades at Weehawken, New Jersey.

Perhaps this duel is the most famous in history. Its results certainly meant the end of both Hamilton and Burr. They carried Hamilton from the field and the next day he died. Burr lived for years, but the shadow of his own doom was ever before him. It is reported that late in life he observed that, had he been wiser, he would have known that there was room enough in the world for both Hamilton and himself. Had Hamilton been equally wise, he would have known that calumnies and lies bring forth but bitter fruit.

When the news of Hamilton's death spread abroad, a thunderous hue and cry went up against Burr. He was a murderer, a criminal, in spite of the fact that all of the rules required under the duelling code had been observed. The Federalists set upon him. He was indicted forthwith for murder, both in New Jersey and New York, and, while he was never brought to trial, he had reason to fear facing a jury, so thoroughly had the public been prejudiced against him.

Presently he returned to Washington and took up his post as Vice President.

In this case the shooting was an accident caused by the time of day and some poor coincidence. The person was injured by a few pellets of buckshot, not a bullet and is expected to fully recover. I say we just write this one up as one of those odd quirks of American History and get back to making fun of the deranged rantings of certain liberals who reside on this board (looking sadly at PirateJenny).

H

CARTOON

Monday, February 13, 2006 3:46 PM

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if most of the major networks didn't carry the story like the title of this post. After all (as I've said elsewhere in this forum), we all know that Bush (which, I suppose, would have to include Cheney by association) is responsible for everything bad that's ever happened to mankind.

It reminds me of something I heard years ago. I don't recall the exact wording, so please forgive me if I mess it up a bit...

It said that if two people were drowning, and Bush jumped in and rescued one of them, the press would report it "Bush watches man drown!!"

And, yeah, Hero, I was aware of that -- although, I'd forgotten that Burr was VP at the time. Lot of interesting things in our past.

DREAMTROVE

Tuesday, February 14, 2006 6:49 AM

In all fairness, the media, which I will grant has a left-bias still, and used to have more of one, reported the story, and dredges it up, though rarely, Kennedy drives women into river, watches her drown. Media just likes death, they're not so partisan about it.

PIRATENEWS

Tuesday, February 14, 2006 7:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
My dream is that Cheney and Bush go duck-hunting together with high powered rifles...

The winner would be the one least intoxicated with booze and coke, tho Cheney is surely the better shot. But Cheney has 2 DUI convictions to Junior's 1 DUI conviction (plus 1 conviction for coke, diversion, probation, expungement), plus loss of TANG pilot license for refusing order for drug test. Heroin is also on Cheney's menu, same for narcokingpin Bush Sr, according to Cathy O'Brien. Maybe they would take each other out? How would faggot McClellen spin it - Attack of the Killer Pretzels?

Drunk Dick lone gunman shoots Republicon in head.
2-time DUI convict Cheney dodges deputies for 12 hours. VIDEO DOWNLOADS:
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/02/8519.php

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http://crooksandliars.com
http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/piratenewsrss/message/121

Quote:
dreamtrove wrote:

Kennedy drives women into river, watches her drown.

Inside scoop from Dream Team trial lawyers is that his car was parked while he took a leak, leaned on the bumper, car in neutral, rolls into river (ie Tom Cruise in Risky Business), drunk chick was perhaps already passed out. Kennedy was an expert swimmer, but couldn't find the car in the dark water. Can't blame him for being a drunk after his 3 brothers were murdered by the trillionaire Bush Gang.

What the extreme-right-wing-merged-with-extreme-left-wing media mafia cartel fails to report, is that his employee's family sued Kennedy, and his insurance company offered $30,000 settlement, since Kennedy's $100-million family fortune is in multiple trusts, including one for his car. So Kennedy is a pauper, as all super-rich are on paper. A trust is cheaper than car insurance, which is NOT mandatory (except for illiterate suckers). Insurance has caps and exceptions, trusts make a person "uncollectable".

"I didn't start it! I just wanted a quiet drink."
-Mal

Pirate News TV
http://piratenews.org

PIRATEJENNY

Tuesday, February 14, 2006 8:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:
Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Quote:
could've shot Bush?

I don't think Bush actually gets away from the TV for long enough to go on a hunting trip. He'd make it as far as the photo-op.

I always suspected Cheney was the Lone Gunman.

Bush is busy playing Brokeback Mountin', and hiding from Poppy Bush and Cheney's Most Dangerous Game of huntin' nekked MKULTRA sex slaves, both male and female, adult and child.
http://fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=18&t=17305&m=248348#248348

CSPAN VIDEO DOWNLOAD: Desperate White House wife Laura Bush admits George Junior masterbates male horses - President Bush gives his opening speech at the White House Correspondents Dinner, but it is quickly taken over by the adulterous drug-dealing lesbian fag-hag First Lady
http://thepoliticalteen.net/2005/04/30/president-bush-first-lady-white
-house-correspondents-dinner-video/

VIDEO DOWNLOAD: Gay drunk Bush Junior playin' "ride 'em cowboy"
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/12/7966.php
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/12/7971.php

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Los Angeles Music Awards 2005
http://piratenews.org/hollywood.html
http://ufoetry.com

when I heard about Cheny shooting someone while hunting the 1rst thing that popped into my head was, he was probably playing The Most dangerous game, hunting down someone for sport, what no one in this thread is talking about, is that Cheny didnot report that he had shot anyone, apparently he went to dinner with the rest of his party, Somehow this story got out, I don't know the full details but this story reeks something isn't right about it.

PIRATEJENNY

Tuesday, February 14, 2006 8:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Bwahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!

My dream is that Cheney and Bush go duck-hunting together with high powered rifles...

Oh, wrong thread!

I'm not saying to an extint this isn't funny, espeacially the way the media is playing this down, but really Cheney shot a man and could have possibly killed him, how do we really know this was an accident ( because the media is saying so)( and even if it was an accident, just because he's the vice President should he be above the law I think not, although we all know nothing is going to happen to Cheney regardless) lets look at the facts, Cheney didn't report what he did, or what had happened to the proper authorities, apparently he went and had dinner with his hunting party

here they are trying to explain the delay

White House explains delay in reporting on Cheney

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/13/cheney.reporting.ap/index.html

PIRATEJENNY

Tuesday, February 14, 2006 8:50 AM

Quote:
In all fairness, the media, which I will grant has a left-bias still

you can say that all the live long day, but the facts are 90% of all media in this country is owned by Rightwingers, its in the hands of corporations, you really need to do your homework. but I know if you did that it still wouldn't make any diffrence- being right or wrong doesn't matter to you Reps or rightwingers or whatever you call yourselves,see thats not really important to you! getting out your skewed view is all that matters to you.

and btw way you really don't have to respond to this post, I can already predict your ramblings!!

SIGNYM

Tuesday, February 14, 2006 2:11 PM

I think the spin is actually the funniest part:

We didn't report it because our focus blah blah blah was to make sure that the man got the care that he needed blah blah blah and to make sure that all traces of alcohol washed out of Dick's system blah blah...."

These little men are so concerned about human life that they waste 36 hours before doing anything substantive about Katrina? Sometimes I think Scott McClellan has to drink himself into a stupor in order to get thru his day. That, or he's been lobotomized into a snail's personality.

---------------------------------
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.

DREAMTROVE

Tuesday, February 14, 2006 3:59 PM

Quote:
but the facts are 90% of all media in this country is owned by Rightwingers

This is the kind of statement that needs a fair number of credible sources. Supporting Bush is not a right wing position. It's supporting Clinton continued. Show me a mainstream 'liberal' media source which continuously arttacked the genocidal policies of Bill Clinton.

PIRATEJENNY

Tuesday, February 14, 2006 11:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
I think the spin is actually the funniest part:

We didn't report it because our focus blah blah blah was to make sure that the man got the care that he needed blah blah blah and to make sure that all traces of alcohol washed out of Dick's system blah blah...."

These little men are so concerned about human life that they waste 36 hours before doing anything substantive about Katrina? Sometimes I think Scott McClellan has to drink himself into a stupor in order to get thru his day. That, or he's been lobotomized into a snail's personality.

---------------------------------
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.

yeah the spin is hi-larious, Cheney more then likely not was drunk out of his gourd, if not that then something else is going on, one thing for sure they are hiding something and the man has now had complications and has had a heart attack apparently one of the pellets was lounged in the man's heart.

For all we know Cheney may have not only been drunk but the man may have pissed him off and Cheney knowing he's above the law probably went off on him,

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-uschen0215,0,2044536
.story?coll=ny-top-headlines

http://www.progressiveu.org/160000-breaking-news-cheneys-victim-suffer
s-from-minor-heart-attack-and-has-some-birdshot-lodged-in-his-heart

http://www.sanluisobispo.com/mld/sanluisobispo/news/politics/13871618.
htm

PIRATEJENNY

Tuesday, February 14, 2006 11:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Quote:
but the facts are 90% of all media in this country is owned by Rightwingers

This is the kind of statement that needs a fair number of credible sources. Supporting Bush is not a right wing position. It's supporting Clinton continued. Show me a mainstream 'liberal' media source which continuously arttacked the genocidal policies of Bill Clinton.

LOL I was so right I actually did predict what you where going to say!! damn!! I'm good

PIRATEJENNY

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 12:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Still, he should be kicked out of office for that, right!?

Why?

And how is an accidental shooting viewed by you as " going on a rampage" ?? Quite the drama queen now, aren't we?

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

well keep on making excuses for these crimnals, Cheney's so called accident could well turn into murder the man has had heart attack thanks to a pellet lounged in his heart, that man's condition is alot more serious then what was previously being reported...but oh yes..its just a little accident right, just like Cheney's 2 DUI's and his coke aversion and his pedophila

PIRATEJENNY

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 12:26 AM

HOW DO YOU SHOOT SOMEONE IN THE FACE AND ITS AND ACCIDENT

the more I think about this the less I'm convinced it was an accident.

PIRATEJENNY

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 12:27 AM

RUXTON

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 12:51 AM

PirateJenny sed: "...but the facts are 90% of all media in this country is owned by Rightwingers...."

and Dreamtrove retored:
"This is the kind of statement that needs a fair number of credible sources"

Sorry, Dreamtrove, you really need to look into this yourself, rather than have anyone lead you to it. Only then will you realize that PIRATEJENNY is absolutely CORRECT.

All the U.S. media -- TV news, newspapers, magazines, etc. -- is owned and controlled by VERY FEW people, all of them in huge corporations. If anyone does not know this you need to LOOK IT UP, not ask for confirmation from those who have.

ASHBURNBROWNCOAT

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 1:04 AM

A rampage is Columbine. If you want to flaunt your blatant liberal-ness get your own forum/blog/etc. to hate Republicans and such. Believe it or not it was an accident the man was his friend. Would you want to be fired if shot your friend in a hunting accident? I think not.

SIGNYM

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 1:12 AM

Well, my mother was a nurse in upstate NY for years and yes, there are bonafide hunting accidents where people get shot in the face. But most hunting accidents involve alcohol. AFAIK most HUNTING involves alcohol. Which prolly explains why Secret Service kept the sherrif's deputy from approaching Cheney the Dick for about 12 hours after the accident.

So, it was Anne Armstrong who spread the news to the local papers, was it? If you are tempted to think of her as a well-meaning but essentially clueless blue-haired Republican grandmotherly type, she was:

Quote:
a close advisor to President Nixon; President Ford’s British Ambassador; and approved covert actions on the President’s Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board under Reagan. A veteran of blue-chip corporate boards, Anne Armstrong was a Halliburton director when that corporation hired Cheney.

---------------------------------
Please don't think they give a shit.

SIGNYM

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 1:15 AM

Quote:
Believe it or not it was an accident the man was his friend. Would you want to be fired if shot your friend in a hunting accident? I think not.

If this was anyone but the VP in Texas-land you'd see a charge of reckless endangerment.

---------------------------------
Please don't think they give a shit.

ASHBURNBROWNCOAT

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 1:20 AM

For all of you who say why couldn't he have shot Bush:
(Now don't me I'm going out of my "right-winged" confort zone.)Then you'd have a crazy gun wielding psycho running your country.
Boy that was hard to do.

DREAMTROVE

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 1:23 AM

Corporations does not equal right wingers. It wasn't my claim. It's not my job to prove Jenny's point for her. I already know who runs the MSM, and I have way to much actual work to do to waste time, if I'm wrong, and Jenny wants to convince me of this, it's on her to do so.

Here are the facts as I understand them:

1. ABC is owned by Disney, which was owned by Eisner, a lefty who I actually admire. I don't know the slant of the new owner. ABC itself is very pro-bush.

2. CBS/Viacom was created, both halves were, by Skull and Bones, a largely left wing conspiracy which contains the Bushes, all of whom are republicans, but also a lot of more left leaning people like Kerry.

3. So was Time Warner, parent company of CNN.

I thought you guys were the conspiracy theorists, don't you know all this already?

MSNBC is a combination of MS and NBC, both traditional republican. At the moment I would say that it's probably the most objective, followed by Fox, owned by Rupert Murdoch and News Corp, a conservative.

Smaller Media conglomerates typically are jewish/zionist, which makes them likely democrats, but not particularly conservative.

So, MSNBC, FOX, are conservative. Dow Jones is conservative, and to some extent probably the Washington Post and maybe the LA Times. But all of this is moot.

All you need to know to know the slant of the media is how did it attack Clinton. The answer is, for the most part, not at all. Here was a man who was committing genocide, running guns to set up pipeline deals, probably running drugs, etc. The media could have covered some of that.

Now look at the way the media handles Bush. Bush is probably, objectively, not as bad as Clinton, but really awful nonetheless, and the media lets him have it.

An aside to people on this side of the aisle. Some people here think that the media is unfair to Bush. It's not. It's perfectly fair. This is the media's job, it's doing what it should be doing. The probably isn't that they *are* letting Bush have it with both barrels, the problem is that they *didn't* let Clinton have it with both barrels like they should have.

If the media was so all fired conservative, they would have destroyed Clinton. Now stories about Bush get sat on for months, back then, stories about Clinton were sat on for years.

Hillary is unadulterated pure evil, and the media is not taking her out, and they're not going to take her out.

DREAMTROVE

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 1:27 AM

Ashburn,

I don't really think that Cheney meant to pull a Vince Foster redo here. But I do think it's a sign that Cheney's nerves are too rattled. Cheney, being Clinton, and a disaster as a conservative, should really throw in the towel. Cheney's own poll numbers are plumetting. Bush should appoint someone who can actually run in '08 to replace him, and he should do so now. Preferably a more reliable conservative. I think a sharp right turn is needed.

CARTOON

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 1:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
If this was anyone but the VP in Texas-land you'd see a charge of reckless endangerment.

Actually, I think in Texas you're required to shoot someone -- aren't you?

Incidentally, I think next time Cheney should take the Washington Press Corps hunting with him. That would make a whole lot of people very happy.

RUE

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 2:36 AM

Now Cheney has his own personal Chappaquiddick. True nobody's died (not yet anyway), but the story explaning the delay is simply not believable.

So why the delay? Well, to let the alcohol metabolize out. And get everbody's story straight. And get the lawyers on board. And stay really quiet and hope it all goes away. And fix the blame where it belongs - on the victim.

Yep, Cheney is one fine, courageous, honorable American taking responsibility and doing the right thing.

Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.

Oh, and ... please don't think they give a shit.

PIRATENEWS

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 2:39 AM

DUI CONVICT, DRAFT DODGER, DEPUTY DODGER

Ex-cop Chris Mathews on Hardball tonight discussed the possibility of a drunken Cheney being arrested for criminally negligent homicide.

VIDEO DOWNLOAD: CHENEY BLOWS LAWYER'S HEAD CLEAN OFF
Andrea Mitchell, wife of Sir Alan Greenspan Jewish Knight of the British Empire at Fed Reserve Bankster Corporation that counterfeits all "money" is USA, is tasked with major coverup of Swedish Jew Cheney's drunken shooting binge.
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/02/8519.php

Quote:
DREAMTROVE WROTE:

MSNBC is a combination of MS and NBC, both traditional republican. At the moment I would say that it's probably the most objective, followed by Fox, owned by Rupert Murdoch and News Corp, a conservative.

MSNBC/Universal is owned by Sir George Bush Sr Knight of the British Empire, British Prime Minister John Major, German Queen of England Elizabeth Sax CoBerg Gotha, and Bin Laden family in Carlyle Group. Jew Michael Eisner at ABC/Disney pays himself a $200-million/year salary and owns 20,000 slaves in Communist China. Fox of course is owned by Sir Rupert Murdock Jewish Knight of the British Empire.

How do you get shot in the head AND the heart with a single gunshot? Of course, the Magic Bullet Theory originated in Dallas. It's almost like that reporter for Mercury News (Gary Webb) who allegedly suicided himself with TWO shots to the head, after narcing on CIA's narco crack epidemic. Hard to do with a revolver.

Quote:
Originally posted by piratejenny:

yeah the spin is hi-larious, Cheney more then likely not was drunk out of his gourd, if not that then something else is going on, one thing for sure they are hiding something and the man has now had complications and has had a heart attack apparently one of the pellets was lounged in the man's heart.

For all we know Cheney may have not only been drunk but the man may have pissed him off and Cheney knowing he's above the law probably went off on him,

The shooting occurred just a couple of days after Cheney's ex-chief of staff Scooter Libby ratted him out to a fed judge, prosecutor and grand jury for TREASON, as the TRAITOR who illegally ordered him to leak the name of CIA agents to the media.
http://cbsnews.com/stories/2006/02/09/politics/main1302808.shtml

So the shooting may have gone like this:

Quote:
Whittington: Dick, what the hell were you thinking, ordering that little faggot to do your dirty work? And ya oughta take it easy on that Jim Bean. At least wait until after the hunt. You're startin to scare me...

Cheney: Grrrrrrr! Go fuck yourself!

Whittington: As your lawyer, I can tell you that was a very stupid thing to do. Did ya know you get the death penalty for that?

Cheney: PULL! BAM BAM! Wasn't it Shakespeare who said to kill all the lawyers? Fuckin' pussy! You shoulda fucked yourself. Did ya see Deliverance? That's my favorite movie... I'm gonna make ya squeal like a pig! I'm gonna ream ya like I reamed Al Gore! I LOVE the Necrophilia Room at Bohemian Grove...

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http://piratenews.org/video-archive.html

Relevant EXCERPT from TRANCE Formation of America, by Cathy O'Brien and Mark Phillips, as testified in Tennessee Courts, and pedophilia was ordered LEGAL by judges "for (t)reasons of national security":

Quote:
A Most Dangerous Game

During Christmas vacation of 1974, my father flew us all to Disney World by route of Tampa, Florida. Ignorant of geography, it did not occur to me that Tampa was out of the way to Disney World until my father drove the rented van to the gates of MacDill Air Force Base. Military personnel met me there and escorted me into the base TOP SECRET high tech mind control conditioning facility for "behavioral modification" programming. This was the first in what became a routine series of mind control testing and/or programming sessions o

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DREAMTROVE

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 3:45 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pirate News:

How do you get shot in the head AND the heart with a single gunshot?

It's scattershot. Shard of scattershot can actually get picked up in the bloodstream and carried to another location in the body, which is what happened here. It also tends to hit a wider area, they said neck face and chest, so I'm picturing a circle. It doesn't have to travel that far, but there have been cases, you can get a bullet in the brain from being shot in the foot, if the shard is small enough.

In this case, a shard from the gun entered the bloodstream somewhere around the area of impact, and was carried back to the heart, where it blocked an artery causes a heart attack. Chances are Mr. Whittington is going to be stuck with little pieces of dick's wad for the rest of his life.

PIRATENEWS

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 4:08 AM

Cheney's a mad-dog hunter frothing at the mouth, usually killing about 100 birds/day. He's fat, but not that fat. He's just a bloody serial killer.

MSNBC had the actual police record on Mr Wittington's injuries. It looked like a cadaver in a morgue. The whole side of his head, neck and chest looked like a 12-gauge tore into him.

POLICE SHOOTING REPORT:
www.cnn.com/2006/images/02/14/CheneyAccidentReport.ap.pdf

The lead shot was not carried to his heart by a blood vessel. His heart actually has a gunshot wound, and lead shot touching his heart muscle, "causing a short circuit" defibrulation "heart attack". That's why you haven't seen Wittington on TV saying he feels great.

Quote:
"The 78-year-old lawyer wounded by Vice President Dick Cheney in a hunting accident suffered a mild heart attack Tuesday after a shotgun pellet in his chest traveled to his heart, hospital officials said. Hospital officials said they were not concerned about the six to 200 other pieces of birdshot that might still be lodged in Whittington's body."
-CNN, "Hunter Shot by Cheney Has Heart Attack"

Secret Service stalls and delays for Cheney
Cover-up in progress and Shotgun ballistics don’t match-up! (shotgun ballistics photos)
www.infowars.com/articles/us/cheney_shooting_coverup_in_progress_balli
stics.htm

If I were shot full of 200 bullets, I doubt I'd say nice things about the shooter.

Judging past performance from the pathologically lyin govt and media mafia, Cheney blew his lawyer's head clean off, and he's rotting in a morgue somewhere, next to USAma Bin Laden.

Wittington's property in Texas also had 2 arsons in the past month, so there may be a reason Cheney freaked out and shot him on purpose, then fled the jurisdiction. Basically pulling an LBJ (and Nixon).

I'm surprised the media didn't claim Oswald did it.

PIRATEJENNY

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 4:59 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AshburnBrowncoat:
A rampage is Columbine. If you want to flaunt your blatant liberal-ness get your own forum/blog/etc. to hate Republicans and such. Believe it or not it was an accident the man was his friend. Would you want to be fired if shot your friend in a hunting accident? I think not.

ewww you people are not only sick but gross, sitting up defending Cheney's actions. but I know this is the type of thing you Reps support, you say it was an accident but how do you figure you wasn't there and even by some slim, slim, chance that it was, Cheney didn't report it, Why? because he was drunk, that doesn't seem like an accident.

grow a pair of balls and stop supporting and defending these crimnals, because ignorance is no longer acceptable and you can't aford to be innocent. The very fact that you make excuses is a reflection on you, I can understand Cheney trying to cover his arse, but whats in it for you!!

PIRATEJENNY

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 5:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Well, my mother was a nurse in upstate NY for years and yes, there are bonafide hunting accidents where people get shot in the face. But most hunting accidents involve alcohol. AFAIK most HUNTING involves alcohol. Which prolly explains why Secret Service kept the sherrif's deputy from approaching Cheney the Dick for about 12 hours after the accident.

So, it was Anne Armstrong who spread the news to the local papers, was it? If you are tempted to think of her as a well-meaning but essentially clueless blue-haired Republican grandmotherly type, she was:

Quote:
a close advisor to President Nixon; President Ford’s British Ambassador; and approved covert actions on the President’s Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board under Reagan. A veteran of blue-chip corporate boards, Anne Armstrong was a Halliburton director when that corporation hired Cheney.

---------------------------------
Please don't think they give a shit.

I have no doubt that alcohol was involved.
well it still doesn't add up the kind of wounds this man suffered had to be done at a closer range then what they are claiming, the fact that the man was shot in the face he had to have been facing Cheney, the way I see it there are two possible scenarios Cheney was drunk and shot the man in the face, or Cheney was pissed and shot the man in the face, either way I don't categorize this as an accident, people who get arrested for drinking and driving don't get the benefit of claiming it was an accident,so neither does Cheney as far as I'm concened.

The fact that this got out is surprising, I would like to know more of the details on that, the old lady would have to be pretty clueless

PIRATENEWS

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 5:14 AM

Shooting a Republicon. I say give Cheney a medal!

PIRATEJENNY

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 5:21 AM

Quote:
Cheney's a mad-dog hunter frothing at the mouth, usually killing about 100 birds/day. He's fat, but not that fat. He's just a bloody serial killer

yep, there is no need to kill that many birds, obviously Cheney likes to kill things,

Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:
Shooting a Republicon. I say give Cheney a medal!

LOL!! Cheney and the victum were probably fighting over who was going to hunt down their prey in the most dangerous game the victum won, so Cheney shot him!!( I couldn't resist)

PIRATEJENNY

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 5:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Corporations does not equal right wingers. It wasn't my claim. It's not my job to prove Jenny's point for her. I already know who runs the MSM, and I have way to much actual work to do to waste time, if I'm wrong, and Jenny wants to convince me of this, it's on her to do so.

Here are the facts as I understand them:

1. ABC is owned by Disney, which was owned by Eisner, a lefty who I actually admire. I don't know the slant of the new owner. ABC itself is very pro-bush.

2. CBS/Viacom was created, both halves were, by Skull and Bones, a largely left wing conspiracy which contains the Bushes, all of whom are republicans, but also a lot of more left leaning people like Kerry.

3. So was Time Warner, parent company of CNN.

I thought you guys were the conspiracy theorists, don't you know all this already?

MSNBC is a combination of MS and NBC, both traditional republican. At the moment I would say that it's probably the most objective, followed by Fox, owned by Rupert Murdoch and News Corp, a conservative.

Smaller Media conglomerates typically are jewish/zionist, which makes them likely democrats, but not particularly conservative.

So, MSNBC, FOX, are conservative. Dow Jones is conservative, and to some extent probably the Washington Post and maybe the LA Times. But all of this is moot.

All you need to know to know the slant of the media is how did it attack Clinton. The answer is, for the most part, not at all. Here was a man who was committing genocide, running guns to set up pipeline deals, probably running drugs, etc. The media could have covered some of that.

Now look at the way the media handles Bush. Bush is probably, objectively, not as bad as Clinton, but really awful nonetheless, and the media lets him have it.

An aside to people on this side of the aisle. Some people here think that the media is unfair to Bush. It's not. It's perfectly fair. This is the media's job, it's doing what it should be doing. The probably isn't that they *are* letting Bush have it with both barrels, the problem is that they *didn't* let Clinton have it with both barrels like they should have.

If the media was so all fired conservative, they would have destroyed Clinton. Now stories about Bush get sat on for months, back then, stories about Clinton were sat on for years.

Hillary is unadulterated pure evil, and the media is not taking her out, and they're not going to take her out.

and I'll say it again, just for the hell of it and because I have the truth on my side 90% of the media is owned by Rightwingers, you need to do your homework...but oh WAIT!!! at the shock of repeating myself again..I know the truth is unimportant to you reps , getting out your skewed view is all that matter...

I can already predict what your going to say, but go ahead I know you can't resist..

PIRATENEWS

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 5:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by piratejenny:

LOL!! Cheney and the victum were probably fighting over who was going to hunt down their prey in the most dangerous game the victum won, so Cheney shot him!!( I couldn't resist)

Perhaps the nekked lady ran between them?

At least Cheney's not as bad as the Queen of England, who shoots 1,000 birds/day, just to keep her blood-lust fresh for her British subjects. These are caged shoots in Europe.

That might even be what Cheney was on, since he probably can't hike or stand that much, in his condition.

Or maybe his pacemaker just kicked in, and he shot Wittington in an epileptic seizure? Apparently, this is a common side effect of pacemakers.

RIVER6213

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:32 AM

I heard that the guy Cheney accidently shot just had a heart attack, but he's still alive. Talk about having a bad day! Hope he gets well.

River

PIRATENEWS

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 10:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:

I heard that the guy Cheney accidently shot just had a heart attack, but he's still alive. Talk about having a bad day! Hope he gets well.

Score one for the little animals. TeeVee said that 70 hunters shoot and kill each other every year in Texas, usually when drunk. I'd say the animals are putting up a fair fight.

"Every day's a negotiation and sometimes it's done with guns."
-Joss

FIREFLY SERENITY PILOT MUSIC VIDEO:
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/01/8310.php
(try again later if server is crashed)

SIGNYM

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 12:26 PM

I don't believe the "shot migrated" story. It leaves the reader with the impression that the shot somehow migrated from Whittington's face to his heart. The only way it could "migrate" that far would be through a large blood vein, which means the shot would have penetrated a deep blood vessel in his neck and likely would have bled to death. Alternately- and more realistically- the shot was already near his heart and just moved a little bit.

Either way, if they were using birdshot and wearing clothes (Sarita TX hi 75, lo 57- doubtful they were hunting nekked) the shot would have to be from pretty close up to penetrate to the heart. According to the parties involved, they were all wearing bright orange hunting vests.

SO, you shoot someone in the face at close range who is wearing an orange vest. Either you're a flippin' idiot, drunk, high, having a seizure, sneezing, or some combination of the above.

---------------------------------
Please don't think they give a shit.

HERO

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 4:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by piratejenny:
the way I see it there are two possible scenarios Cheney was drunk and shot the man in the face, or Cheney was pissed and shot the man in the face, either way I don't categorize this as an accident,

I suspect you started with the idea that this wasn't an accident and that limited your imagination in coming up with possible scenarios.

I humbly suggest the possibility that Cheney was tracking a bird (meaning he was looking skyward (not straigt up, just not looking at the ground...probably the quail was flying fairly low). It tracked into the sun glare. Meanwhile the other person was approaching, unannounced from lower ground with the sun in the sky behind him. Buckshot spreads out so the man was hit with several pellets rather then taking a full on blast. Thats why he was relatively uninjured, scratches and a couple little holes (until his heart attack, but thats a bit of bad luck).

Or perhaps the man waited watching and at just the right moment he dived into the shot pattern seeking to become injured. A deliberate act by a derranged man. Perhaps it was an Iranian quail and this was all a set up.

There are a thousand possible ways this went down. We must rely on the testimony of the witnesses to say what happened. In this case, as a Prosecutor, I can say that the most compelling testimony comes from the victim, who says it was an accident and takes partial responsibility on himself for not announcing his approach. The victim says no harm, no foul...then I'd never in the absense of other compelling evidence or testimony, charge Cheney with a serious crime (there may be minor charges here, the game stamp for one, but that was resolved).

H

CARTOON

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 5:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
The victim says no harm, no foul...then I'd never in the absense of other compelling evidence or testimony, charge Cheney with a serious crime (there may be minor charges here, the game stamp for one, but that was resolved).

The big problem with your train of thought, Hero, is that it's logical, makes sense, and wasn't conceived while smoking an illegal substance. As such, it doesn't belong in this thread.

The thing you (and most intelligent, sane-thinking folks like you) don't understand is that everything is Cheney's fault. (Actually, everything is Bush's fault -- and therefore, Cheney's through association. Haven't you seen my previous threads which explain the reasoning behind this?

)

Even if Cheney was the person who'd been shot, and he didn't possess a gun, it would've been his fault. Isn't that obvious?!?! Come on. Get with the show. Jump on the bandwagon. You don't want to be the only reasonable, sane-thinking person around, do you?

SIGNYM

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:01 PM

I am starting with the assumption that this WAS an accident. But like most accidents, it begins with somebody doing something stupid.

Quote:
I humbly suggest the possibility that Cheney was tracking a bird (meaning he was looking skyward (not straigt up, just not looking at the ground...probably the quail was flying fairly low). It tracked into the sun glare. Meanwhile the other person was approaching, unannounced from lower ground with the sun in the sky behind him.

Rule No 1 in hunting: If you can't clearly see your target, you don't pull the trigger. I'm not a hunter, but I work with several. These guys are responsible hunters, but they've also come back with stories about bullets whizzing past their ears because some other hunter shot at sound. But hey, this isn't the first time Cheney's blasted at a phantom target.

Quote:
Buckshot spreads out so the man was hit with several pellets rather then taking a full on blast. Thats why he was relatively uninjured, scratches and a couple little holes (until his heart attack, but thats a bit of bad luck).

Do you know this or are you just speculating? I haven't seen any pictures of Whittington on TV saying how great he's feeling and the medical report estimates from 5 to 200 pieces of lodged shot. OTOH, it seems like the shot would have to have been at close range to penetrate an orange vest and a shirt (or vest, shirt and jacket, depending on the weather) all the way to his heart. Since Cheney has every reason to spin this in the most positive light, unless I hear specific news backed by medical reports that the injuries were "minor" and/or live interviews of the victim himself (Notice that we haven't heard direct quote yet?) I'm going to assume that they were NOT "minor".

Quote:
There are a thousand possible ways this went down.

Maybe Cheney sneezed at the wrong time. But the one invariant is that he turned and pointed his gun behind him. Turning around without breaking open your shotgun is enough to get you banned from skeet-shooting ranges. That's a big non-no.

Quote:
We must rely on the testimony of the witnesses to say what happened. In this case, as a Prosecutor, I can say that the most compelling testimony comes from the victim, who says it was an accident and takes partial responsibility on himself for not announcing his approach.

The victim does not decide whether a law was broken or not.

Quote:
The victim says no harm, no foul.

But only in civil cases in which money is to be awarded.

Quote:
In this case, as a Prosecutor

Are you sure you're a Prosecutor?

---------------------------------
Please don't think they give a shit- especially Hero.

HERO

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by cartoon:
You don't want to be the only reasonable, sane-thinking person around, do you?

I've been on this board a long time. There are good discussions and bad discussions. The good ones make it worth while.

Oh, and we get to laugh at the really wacky folk that chime in from time to time (smiles at PirateJenny).

H

CARTOON

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Oh, and we get to laugh at the really wacky folk that chime in from time to time.

I agree. A lot of this stuff is hilarious. But, uh -- they, uh -- they actually believe it.

SIGNYM

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:44 PM

But I noticed that Hero and his doppleganger Cartoon ignore my common-sense posts. Must be because they can't think of anything to say. I suppose in a way I should be flattered, so "thank you" for that indirect compliment.

---------------------------------
Please don't think they give a shit.

HERO

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
The victim does not decide whether a law was broken or not.
But only in civil cases in which money is to be awarded.
Are you sure you're a Prosecutor?

Lets take this one at a time.

Am I a Prosecutor? (Looks at little gold badge..) I hope so, otherwise I'm going to be in real trouble for sending that guy to jail yesterday for his OMVI (in Ohio we simplified DUI by changing it to OMVI which is Operating a Motor Vehicle Under the Influence).

The other two points are a single issue. Lets take an example from this week. Lady comes in for a Citizen Complaint. Her mentally disabled son was abused at his school by a teacher's aid. No witnesses except the boy, who isn't competent to testify, the TA and the school's Principal. They claim the boy assaulted the TA. The boy had extensive bruises which came either as the result of abuse or from them restraining him (lawfully) until police arrived. To charge or not to charge. Since I could not be certain what did or did not happen (either they assaulted the boy and are lying or they were defending themselves and telling the truth) I could not in good faith charge them with a crime. The boy on the other hand has a history of violent behaivor. I decided to charge the boy with assault to put him in the JV system. In another example a woman is badly beaten by her husband and he is charged with Domestic Violence. At the Pre Trial they come in together and she says she wants the charges dropped. I refuse, she says she was lying. In such an instance I will drop the charges and charge the woman with making a false statement (either she did originally lie, unlikely, or she's lying now).

You say the victim does not decide whether or not a law was broken. Neither do I. The truth of whether or not a law was broken is not relevant to the issue. Thats for the Jury (or the Judge for a bench trial) to decide.

My consideration is my good faith belief that I can prove a violation of the law beyond reasonable doubt. For that I need witnesses and/or evidence. In this case we have witnesses all agreeing its an accident and experts (including myself as a hunter and a person whose been near missed by buckshot while sitting on my own back porch near a state game lands, back when I lived in PA as a kid that is) who agree it was an accident. No evidence or witnesses as yet to the contrary. The victim even agrees it was an accident and takes some small measure of responsibility. There is no grounds for a criminal case, not because a law may or may not have been brokem, but because if one might have been broken, there is simply no way to prove it.

I also note for the record the police report posted on Smoking Gun indicates that the victim was interviewed and his story is the same as the Vice Presidents. So while he may not have rushed to a microphone to give a press conferance, both parties did give statements to the only people who really deserve one, the police.

I also note for the record that while there is no viable criminal case at this time, the victim has a hell of a civil case against Cheney and the property owner...civil standards of proof are much lower.

H

HERO

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 7:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
But I noticed that Hero and his doppleganger Cartoon ignore my common-sense posts. Must be because they can't think of anything to say. I suppose in a way I should be flattered, so "thank you" for that indirect compliment.

Actually I found your post to be quite worthy of a thoughtful response...except for the quip about my Prosecutorial credentials. Actually given my bad spelling skills, sometimes I wonder myself. Rest assured I spell check everything that gets filed in court.

I have since responded and I hope you are satisfied (with the thoughtful and extensive nature of the response, if not the content and sentiments expressed therin).

I would also note that my conservative values serve me well in this job. I'd think that you'd want someone like me as a Prosecutor. Tough on crime,strict application of the law, honost, forthright, mean, etc. You want hard chargers in my job and liberal pansies...er...sympathetic defenders on the other side. Makes for a good balance and all. Put a liberal in my office and folk can get away with murder (not to mention speeding). And I can carry a gun if I want. I'd do that anyway, at least this way my Constitutional predisposition is channeled into a productive service for the community. And to think, I turned down real money to do this job, more then once.

H

KWICKO

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 7:15 PM

As much enjoyment as I'm getting out of this story (and seriously, as long as the victim doesn't die, you just can't buy or make up a funny news story like this!), I think it'd be nice if we could stick to a few facts.

From all the sources I've seen, this looks like it was in all likelihood an accident. A stupid, possibly alcohol-fueled, careless accident, sure, but an accident nonetheless. While I'm no supporter of Bush, Cheney, or their Administration, I'm willing to accept it as an accidental shooting. Still, that doesn't keep me from appreciating the irony of the situation, or from wanting Cheney to have to face the music.

As far as I've heard, the gun in question was a 20-gauge (or possibly 12-gauge) shotgun. Since they were hunting quail, it's most likely that they were using BIRDSHOT, not buckshot. Birdshot pellets are SMALL - not much larger than a grain of salt.

According to reports, Wittington was about 30 yards away when he was shot (or "peppered", as the White House referred to it. Odd choice of words; implies you're seasoning the guy...). Shotgun rounds *spread* as they cover distance, so I see no ballistics or logical problems with the idea that a man shot at 30 yards with birdshot would be hit in the face, head, neck, and chest with "the same bullet". Mainly because it's NOT the same bullet; it's the same ROUND, which contains around 200 individual "bullets" (which should really be called pellets to be accurate).

Quote:
ewww you people are not only sick but gross, sitting up defending Cheney's actions. but I know this is the type of thing you Reps support, you say it was an accident but how do you figure you wasn't there and even by some slim, slim, chance that it was, Cheney didn't report it, Why? because he was drunk, that doesn't seem like an accident.
grow a pair of balls and stop supporting and defending these crimnals, because ignorance is no longer acceptable and you can't aford to be innocent. The very fact that you make excuses is a reflection on you, I can understand Cheney trying to cover his arse, but whats in it for you!!

Nice line of reasoning there. What's in it for me, defending Cheney? Not a thing... unless I accidentally shoot someone some day, and would like to have or expect to have at least a *modicum* of a fair trial. I'm sure I'll get labelled a "Rep" by you for this reply, but that would only show how little you know about me. I've never voted for a Republican, and I never voted for Clinton.

Back to the facts as we know them. Apparently, Cheney lacked the proper stamp on his hunting license at the time of the shooting. That's not good. The Texas Parks & Wildlife enforcers say they'll be issuing him a warning citation. To me, that's a bit of a cop-out, a wrist-slap for a serious offense. If it was you or me, it would be called "poaching" (hunting without a valid license), and if we shot someone while poaching, I think we'd be in line for stiffer consequences than a mere warning.

I have no doubt we live under a corrupt system. I have no doubt that there ARE cover-ups and conspiracies. At the same time, though, I have a hard time believing that EVERYTHING is a cover-up and a conspiracy. Sometimes an accidental shooting is just that. Mind you, I think there should be more investigation into the incident, and stiffer penalties if it turns out that Cheney was drunk, negligent, criminally indifferent (waiting to report the incident), reckless, and/or hunting without a license or the proper endorsement on said license. But let's at least go through a pro-forma investigation before having the man burned as a witch. ;)

Like Ted Kennedy before him, this will probably seriously curtail Cheney's political clout. As the late Hunter Thompson said about Kennedy, "The man would have been President if he'd only learned how to drive. Once he put that girl in the water, it was all over." I tend to liken Cheney's gaffe to Kennedy's; both were serious lacks of judgment, both were stupid and avoidable accidents, but neither were wantonly cruel premeditated acts of ve

SIGNYM

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 7:19 PM

Let's take a look at the disabled boy. Where were the bruises? To his face? His arms? His buttocks? His neck? In other words, were they consistent with being restrained? Did the TA have any bruises or show any other injury consistent with being attacked? Were the boy's knuckles skinned, consistent with attacking the TA? Is this the first such complaint against the TA and/or the school- or the 20th?

Now lets look at Cheney's case. Cheney shot a man in the face. That's indisputable- hospital records and physical exam say so. They both say it's an accident, but was the accident Cheney's fault? As far as I can tell, the only way that this is NOT Cheney's fault is if his gun misfired, or he was stung by a bee, or he sneezed, or some other external factor caused him to shoot at something that he CLEARLY didn't see well.

And in light of your reasoned response, I w/draw my snide remark about your professional position!

---------------------------------
Please don't think they give a shit.

SIGNYM

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 7:26 PM

Quote:
As far as I've heard, the gun in question was a 20-gauge (or possibly 12-gauge) shotgun. Since they were hunting quail, it's most likely that they were using BIRDSHOT, not buckshot. Birdshot pellets are SMALL - not much larger than a grain of salt.

According to reports, Wittington was about 30 yards away when he was shot (or "peppered", as the White House referred to it. Odd choice of words; implies you're seasoning the guy...). Shotgun rounds *spread* as they cover distance, so I see no ballistics or logical problems with the idea that a man shot at 30 yards with birdshot would be hit in the face, head, neck, and chest with "the same bullet".

Help me out with the ballistics here. How much spread and penetration do you get at 30 yards with birdshot? Enough that potentially a full load hits a person-sized target? Enough to penetrate a vest, shirt, and about 3" of flesh to near the heart? That's the one thing I can't quite seem to get a bead on (so to speak)- the actual distance.

---------------------------------
Please don't think they give a shit.

GEEZER

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 7:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:
TeeVee said that 70 hunters shoot and kill each other every year in Texas, usually when drunk.

Funny, Texas says 29 accidents with 4 fatalities in 2004 and 30 and 2 in 2005.

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/newsmedia/releases/?req=20050314c
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/newsmedia/releases/?req=20060213c

the 2004 release states:"The primary reason for Texas hunting accidents remains swinging on game outside a safe zone of fire. This happens when a person points a firearm at another hunter while following a moving target, such as a flying game bird."

"Keep the Shiny side up"

KWICKO

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 7:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:

I would also note that my conservative values serve me well in this job. I'd think that you'd want someone like me as a Prosecutor. Tough on crime,strict application of the law, honost, forthright, mean, etc. You want hard chargers in my job and liberal pansies...er...sympathetic defenders on the other side. Makes for a good balance and all. Put a liberal in my office and folk can get away with murder (not to mention speeding).
H

Hero: If no one else has said it, thanks. Thanks for the well-reasoned and well-considered argument, and thanks for doing what all too often is a thankless job.

And I agree completely with you about who *I'd* want as a prosecutor and a defense attorney. Being myself one of those "liberal pansies" - though not an attorney - I can affirm that I'm a sucker for that "reasonable doubt" bit. As such, I'd probably err on the side of caution were I to serve on a jury. Better to let 100 guilty men go free, than send one innocent man to jail, and all that pap.

But again, thanks all the same for doing the job.

As I posted above, Cheney might have done something STUPID (I'm an avid gun owner myself, and have to date never shot anyone), but I'm far from convinced that what he did was CRIMINALLY stupid. Guess we'll have to see how it plays out.

Mike

A baby seal walks into a club...

SIGNYM

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 7:30 PM

Quote:
"The primary reason for Texas hunting accidents remains swinging on game outside a safe zone of fire. This happens when a person points a firearm at another hunter while following a moving target, such as a flying game bird."

Which is an excellent reason why Cheney should have known better. And an even better reason to be interviewed immediately afterwards- so the question of alcohol can be laid to rest.

---------------------------------
Please don't think they give a shit.

SIGNYM

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 7:34 PM

So Kwicko- since you seem to know something about guns- and in case my question got lost in the shuffle: How much spread and penetration do you get at 30 yards with birdshot? Enough to penetrate a shirt, vest, and about 3" of flesh?

---------------------------------
Please don't think they give a shit.

KWICKO

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 7:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:
TeeVee said that 70 hunters shoot and kill each other every year in Texas, usually when drunk.

Funny, Texas says 29 accidents with 4 fatalities in 2004 and 30 and 2 in 2005.

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/newsmedia/releases/?req=20050314c
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/newsmedia/releases/?req=20060213c

the 2004 release states:"The primary reason for Texas hunting accidents remains swinging on game outside a safe zone of fire. This happens when a person points a firearm at another hunter while following a moving target, such as a flying game bird."

"Keep the Shiny side up"

Thanks for that info.

For the record, I'm not a hunter. I shoot for fun and recreation, with rifles and handguns (and I'm aware of the irony of a "gun-toting liberal"). Having said that...

Quote:
Help me out with the ballistics here. How much spread and penetration do you get at 30 yards with birdshot? Enough that potentially a full load hits a person-sized target? Enough to penetrate a vest, shirt, and about 3" of flesh to near the heart? That's the one thing I can't quite seem to get a bead on (so to speak)- the actual distance.

I can't say for sure. How much spread you get is going to depend on the distance and the shotgun. From what I understand about shotguns, you can alter the "choke" to spread out more or to spread out less. I could be wrong about that, not being a shotgun guy myself... But suffice it to say that hitting a flying bird (and a quail is a rather SMALL bird at that) at 30 yards or so is not an easy proposition. You WANT the shot to spread a bit to increase your chances of actually hitting something.

As to penetration... well, let's just say it's enough to kill a bird at that distance. The orange hunting vests I've seen are more like a city worker's orange vest than a Kevlar vest. They're for visibility, not for staving off shotgun rounds. If the birdshot in question has enough velocity to down a bird and penetrate deeply into its body, I have no problem at all believing that it can go right through a Safety Orange hunting vest, a shirt, pants, and skin. Would it penetrate all the way to the heart? Don't know, but I'm a bit skeptical of that. Most likely scenario is what's been mentioned - that the piece of shot "migrated" to his heart via a blood vessel. As I said above, birdshot is quite small. A piece of it could easily get into a vein large enough to carry it to the heart without any danger of bleeding to death beforehand. We're talking something with a diameter of a millimeter or two, not a .50-caliber round. :)

Would a "full load" hit a person-sized target at 30 yards? I'd say probably not. But that's just a technicality on my part, meaning I don't think he actually got hit with every single shot pellet from the fired round. I'd think a large portion of that round could hit a man-sized target at that range, though, if it was well-aimed. ;)

Mike

A baby seal walks into a club...

RUE

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 7:54 PM

If Cheney shot someone (while poaching) due to drunkenness, does it change the conclusion from 'accidental' to 'negligent'? And if, as SignyM suggests, it was at close range, doesn't it add weight to any potential charge?

The coverup was more likely to be about the alcohol than the shooting itself.

Nice job Cheney. You stood up like a true man.

Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.

GEEZER

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 7:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Help me out with the ballistics here. How much spread and penetration do you get at 30 yards with birdshot? Enough that potentially a full load hits a person-sized target? Enough to penetrate a vest, shirt, and about 3" of flesh to near the heart? That's the one thing I can't quite seem to get a bead on (so to speak)- the actual distance.

Cheney was shooting a 28 gauge shotgun using #7 1/2 shot (per the accident report). This shot is .10" in diameter and there are about 350 in an ounce. Most 28 gauge loads are .75 oz, or about 275 pellets. Normal pattern for a quail gun would put 57 to 67% of the shot inside a 30 inch circle at 40 yards. Muzzle velocity of this type load is around 1,200 to 1,300 feet per second, and slows to probably 900 to 1,000fps at 30 yds. 30-35 yds is about max range to reliably penetrate a quail's feathers and skin a couple of inches with enough pellets to kill it.

So, even if the Veep were aiming directly at Mr. Whittington at around 30 yds he'd have probably hit him with 100-150 pellets at most, less if he was on the edge of the pattern. They'd have been going fast enough to penetrate clothes and skin, but not bones such as ribs or skull. A pellet hitting below the sternum might be a pretty good candidate for the one that caused later heart trouble (Just speculation on my part. I'm not sure how everyone was positioned.)

Looks like a hunting accident to me.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 8:09 PM

Everybody here is missing the point.
Hunting is SUPPOSED to be dangerious. That's what gives it it's edge. Adreneline doesn't come from a shoot-the-target video game. Shooting a living being with a weapon IS THE POINT.
Cheney just got a target a little higher up the food chain than he expected.
And if he were not the VP, it would have made for one Helluva cool hunting story 'round the campfire, with or without the beer.

Seein' into the truth of things Chrisisall

SIGNYM

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 8:09 PM

And then the question is- accident with or without alcohol? There were two other people there. But nobody is going to pipe up and say Oh yeah, we had a nice warmup when the day started and kept ourselves pretty toasty all along. The veep was feeling no pain by five. Of course, the veep was not interviewed immediately afterwards (um- why not?) so unless there is some fancy 72-hours-later test for alcohol that I don't know of (alcohol dehydrogenase only tells you if someone drinks regularly, not recently) or some other evidence shows up (the medical report shows that the shot was extremely closely spaced- too close for 30 yards) then we may never know if criminal negligence was involved.

We DO know that Cheney screwed up, and that he squatted on the incident for days.

---------------------------------
Please don't think they give a shit.

KWICKO

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 8:21 PM

Quote:
HOW DO YOU SHOOT SOMEONE IN THE FACE AND ITS AND ACCIDENT

How do you shoot someone in the face accidentally? Easy. You don't mean to shoot them, but you do. Hence, an "accident", as opposed to an "on purpose". ;)

Seriously, there are loads of people accidentally shot in this country every year. Some of them in the face, even. Lots of them even by "unloaded" weapons. I can't tell you the number of people I've heard about who were killed by "unloaded" weapons, or even when they were cleaning their own weapons, which were "unloaded at the time" - or so they thought.

The simple thing I take away from these lessons is this: There is no such thing as an unloaded gun, until and unless you've unloaded it yourself and VERIFIED that it's unloaded. Anyone ever tries to hand me a gun with the barrel pointed at me, and I'm going to assume they're assaulting me, and respond in kind by disarming them, roughly. ;) The way I see it, no one ever hands you an unloaded weapon. Respect it, fear it, and check it until YOU know it's unloaded. Sure, it might not have any ammo in it, but until I've checked, rechecked, and verified that for myself (generally by cycling the action a few times and looking through the barrel), all guns are assumed to be loaded and safety-off. Maybe that's one of the reasons I've been around guns and shooting since I was a tot and never shot anyone or been shot myself...

There are two kinds of "accident-prone" people that are particularly dangerous to have around guns, in my experience: Those who don't know a thing about guns or gun safety, and those who think they know too much. People who've never been around guns tend to get a little crazy with them on first encounter, and start pointing them at others and waving them around the room, without knowing a damn thing about what they're doing or what they're holding. People who are TOO comfortable with guns tend to take for granted that a gun is empty because they pulled the magazine out, and because they're "smart". I try never to be "smart" around guns. I've been around them most of my life (my dad's a gun nut, and ex-military, so we grew up around a houseful of guns), but I've never allowed myself to get so comfortable with them that I forget what they can do.

Something else to point out about the Cheney Incident: When you're REALLY concentrating on something, it's easy to get cuaght up in the moment, or to have "tunnel vision" so to speak. I think this is probably what happened to Cheney. He was tracking a bird, beading in on it, and just didn't see what was around him - or in front of him! I can relate, from a kind-of-similar experience I had. As I've mentioned before, I race cars for a hobby. There's a phenomena we call "The Red Mist" that occurs sometimes; you're so enthralled and involved in what you're doing, that sometimes you block out things around you - even things that might pose a danger to you or others. One event, I was on course, having a good run, concentrating intently on an upcoming series of turns, working out just exactly where I wanted to position myself for the best "line" through the corners, and I didn't even notice the two corner-workers who were feverishly trying to flag me down and stop me. They were waving bright orange flags at me, but they were "off-line", and therefore not in my visual frame of reference, nor my mental one. I noticed them almost as I passed them, and it broke my revery for long enough to realize that something was up. Turns out another car had spun and died on-course just after the series or corners I was heading for, and they were trying to stop me in case I came upon this other car and hit it. And I damn near didn't see them. The Red Mist had closed over me, and all I could see in my mind's eye was the run and the win.

So, yeah... I can see how Cheney shot someone in the face and it was still an accident.

Mike

A baby seal walks into a club...

RUE

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 8:33 PM

Quote:
Everybody here is missing the point.
Hunting is SUPPOSED to be dangerious. That's what gives it it's edge. Adreneline doesn't come from a shoot-the-target video game. Shooting a living being with a weapon IS THE POINT.
Cheney just got a target a little higher up the food chain than he expected.
And if he were not the VP, it would have made for one Helluva cool hunting story 'round the campfire, with or without the beer.

See, I always thought hunting would make a lot more sense as a sport if people with live ammo went and hunted each other. And people hunted game with paint balls. It puts hunter and hunted more on an equal footing.

Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.

KWICKO

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 8:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Help me out with the ballistics here. How much spread and penetration do you get at 30 yards with birdshot? Enough that potentially a full load hits a person-sized target? Enough to penetrate a vest, shirt, and about 3" of flesh to near the heart? That's the one thing I can't quite seem to get a bead on (so to speak)- the actual distance.

Cheney was shooting a 28 gauge shotgun using #7 1/2 shot (per the accident report). This shot is .10" in diameter and there are about 350 in an ounce. Most 28 gauge loads are .75 oz, or about 275 pellets. Normal pattern for a quail gun would put 57 to 67% of the shot inside a 30 inch circle at 40 yards. Muzzle velocity of this type load is around 1,200 to 1,300 feet per second, and slows to probably 900 to 1,000fps at 30 yds. 30-35 yds is about max range to reliably penetrate a quail's feathers and skin a couple of inches with enough pellets to kill it.

So, even if the Veep were aiming directly at Mr. Whittington at around 30 yds he'd have probably hit him with 100-150 pellets at most, less if he was on the edge of the pattern. They'd have been going fast enough to penetrate clothes and skin, but not bones such as ribs or skull. A pellet hitting below the sternum might be a pretty good candidate for the one that caused later heart trouble (Just speculation on my part. I'm not sure how everyone was positioned.)

Looks like a hunting accident to me.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

Geezer: Thanks for that in-depth answer. Never mind what I said about shotguns and ballistics; this looks to be a much more knowledgeable response than any I could give.

Now, IF alcohol were involved, that changes the landscape a bit. But we may never really know, now.

What's likely to keep this story alive, and hang it around the Veep's neck like an albatross (and not the good luck kind), is what was done in the immediate aftermath of the shooting. Disappearing for a day or two, or even for 12 hours, doesn't necessarily mean that there's definitely a cover-up afoot, but it DOES give Cheney's opponents lots of fodder with which to conduct character assassination. Just ask Ted Kennedy!

Oh, and lest we forget, the shootee in this case IS a 78-year-old man. My dad's 65 with a good heart, but if I shot him in the face with a shotgun, he just might have a heart attack too. I'm just sayin'...

I'm no fan of Cheney, but let's not paint him as a gun-wielding, war-mongering, drunken-pedophile-murderous-psycho just yet. After all, I haven't seen any real evidence that he's a pedophile. ;)

Mike

A baby seal walks into a club...

RUE

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 8:37 PM

I can see how a fast-paced race gets the adrenaline going, which then narrows your focus.

But a quiet slow amble in search of quail? If that's too much excitement for him, he's in worse shape than anyone knew.

I just get so excited holding a gun.

SIGNYM

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 8:43 PM

Well, apparently there was some alcohol there. Armstrong herself said "There may be a beer or two in there, but remember not everyone in the party was shooting." Since she wasn't shooting (she was in ther car and didn't see what happened, AND she wasn't drinking, the logical conclusion is that other members of the pary were both shooting AND drinking.

www.huffingtonpost.com/rj-eskow/cheneys-chappaquiddick-i_b_15711.html

Kwicko- And if you had not seen the flags and driven on thru the Red Mist, and if you had accidentally injured someone, you would have been overcome by remorse and you would have been made to file an accident report with the police right away- and probably been made to take a breathalyzer on the spot. You wouldn't waved off the sheriff and eaten dinner. And lest we forget- alcohol caused Kennedy's Chappaquidick. There may be more parallels here than you realize.

Quote:
I'm no fan of Cheney, but let's not paint him as a gun-wielding, war-mongering, drunken-pedophile-murderous-psycho just yet. After all, I haven't seen any real evidence that he's a pedophile.

Okay, warn me before you pop up with humor, will ya???? I choked on my coffee and nearly had a heart attack for cryin' out loud!

Geezer- thank you for the info on shotguns. When dealing with situations, it's always best to have the facts.

And now, back to work....

---------------------------------
SignyM- not able to stand excitement either.

RUE

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 8:49 PM

So I'm curious. The legal pundits were eager to parse Texas law re hunting accidents. HERO - what does the law say if alcohol is involved? Perhaps you could look it up and give us the benefit of your expertise.

Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.

GEEZER

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 9:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Well, apparently there was some alcohol there. Armstrong herself said "There may be a beer or two in there, but remember not everyone in the party was shooting." Since she wasn't shooting (she was in ther car and didn't see what happened, AND she wasn't drinking, the logical conclusion is that other members of the pary were both shooting AND drinking.

Or, they each had a beer with their sandwich for lunch, and were quite sober by late in the day. Or, they had some in the cooler to celebrate a successful day of shooting after they finished and unloaded.

I also race cars (Hey, Kwicko! NASA Honda Challenge in a CRX Si ITA clone), and often have beer in my cooler at the track. It comes out at the end of the last session when the track is closed and everyone is talking about the events of the day. On my couple of forays in the hunting field, this is also when the beer came out...after the stuff requiring sobriety was over.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

ASHBURNBROWNCOAT

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 9:40 PM

Now I know that it is only "right-winged wackjobs" that go hunting so I'll explain this to your undeveloped minds. When you go hunting for birds you use a shot gun unless you are an extremely good shot which is highly unlikely that you are shooting birds with a rifle anyway. As we all know shotguns are 100's of tiny pellets that spray out and cover a wide target area. So if it were poited at someone then mulriple pellets would go in multiple directions. I'm pointing this out to the idiots who think it's the "Magic Bullet Theory" or that you go hunting BIRDS with rifles. Not making fun of someones "joke".

:Democrat

SIGNYM

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 10:03 PM

Quote:
Now I know that it is only "right-winged wackjobs" that go hunting so I'll explain this to your undeveloped minds. When you go hunting for birds you use a shot gun unless you are an extremely good shot which is highly unlikely that you are shooting birds with a rifle anyway.

Assburn: Now I know that only lefties have a sense of humor, I'll explain this to your undeveloped mind: I think waaaaay back in this thread I made a joke (note: joke) about Cheney and Bush going bird-hunting with high-powered rifles. Note: It was a joke.

Hey Geezer, I re-read the statement and it said nothing about "drinking". It was certainly very carefully worded!

---------------------------------
Please don't think they give a shit.

RUE

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 10:05 PM

HEY HERO !! Still waiting for you to look up alcohol-related accidental shootings.

Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.

RUXTON

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 10:18 PM

Cheney used a Perazzi Brescia 28-gauge double gun, with factory-loaded #7-1/2 shot. The most common 28-ga. load is 3/4 ounce, or 262 lead-shot pellets per load. The 28 gauge is usually an expert shot's gun, and for quail would probably be choked Modified and Full, or perhaps even Full and Full. This means that about 3/4 of the shot would be in a 30-inch circle at 40 (not 30) yards, or about 200 pellets (worst-case scenario) would be in that circle at 40 yards. To simplify, let's assume a 40-yard range (not the reported 30), Full choke, and that Whittington was centered in the pattern. That means his torso, neck and head would take up, say, half of that 30-inch circle (probably quite a bit less than half). This means that he could have been hit with about 100 pellets. Move him to 30 yards and he could have been hit with 16/9 x 100, or 178 pellets, worst-case scenario. The police report gave the range as appproximately 30 yards. Oddly, the report states the injuries were on the right side of face, neck, and chest, but the diagram of the injuries shows the damage to the LEFT side, which would make far more sense, given the reported circumstances of Cheney swinging to the right.

Whittington was also hit in the neck, which would not take a lot of penetration to put a pellet into a big artery, but I'm guessing here because I don't know how deep an artery is, within the neck. But if a pellet got into a major left-side neck artery it could easily move straight down to the heart.

There is no way in hell a single #7-1/2 shot pellet at 30 yards could have penetrated vest, shirt, undershirt, skin, and chest muscles to get to the heart directly.

Also, for the record, Cheney did in fact have a valid hunting license (about $125). About six months ago TX decided to require a $7 stamp, like a duck stamp, and neither Cheney nor Whittington had one, though Cheney's office had requested everything pertinent to legal hunting prior to the hunt. Hence Cheney's slap on the wrist, which I suspect any hunter would receive for not knowing all the latest requirements.

Cheney did three things wrong: Shot someone, failed to inform the American people, and failed to take full blame.

RUE

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 10:53 PM

For what it's worth, Whittington has a pellet lodged in his liver (located primarily on the right side of the body). It penetrated clothing, skin, and muscle to lodge there.

Now, the liver is primarily located under the ribs. It's really hard to get at. Unless your liver is swollen and expanded downwards.

Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.

RUE

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 11:01 PM

Well, I did some looking up.

Some states use 'voluntary intoxication' as a diminishing factor during sentencing (b/c of the inability to form 'specific intent'). Texas is aparently not one of those states.

It looks like Cheney could be charged with anything from felony aggravated assault (with alcohol not a defense) to reckless endagerment (with alcohol as part of the charge).

So, did Cheney really go off to calmly eat dinner while his friend was rushed off to hospital? Or did he hunker with his lawyers? My guess is he had pressing matters on his mind and it wasn't which gravy to choose.

Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.

KWICKO

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 11:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:

I also race cars (Hey, Kwicko! NASA Honda Challenge in a CRX Si ITA clone), and often have beer in my cooler at the track. It comes out at the end of the last session when the track is closed and everyone is talking about the events of the day. On my couple of forays in the hunting field, this is also when the beer came out...after the stuff requiring sobriety was over.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

Geezer: No kidding - you too? And another CRX driver to boot! :) Gotta love the CRX. I love 'em maybe TOO much. Right now I've got three (silver '87 Si, yellow '90 Si, and burgundy '91 DX). And that's after selling a couple over the past few years (silver '88 Si, white '89 DX).

I hear ya on the beer, too. I *might* have a beer after the races, or after I get home from the races. Ditto when I work on cars. I get people wanting help all the time, and they offer to buy the beer if I'll help work on their car. I tell 'em to save the beer 'til AFTER the tools are put away. I like beer as much as the next guy, but there's a time and place, and it ain't when I'm doing serious stuff, even if I'm doing the serious stuff just for fun!

Mike

PS: DEFINITELY keep the shiny side up. And the sticky side down.

A baby seal walks into a club...

RUE

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 11:51 PM

So how do you feel about the Red Haze potential of quail hunting?

Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.

SIGNYM

Wednesday, February 15, 2006 11:59 PM

Quote:
Now, the liver is primarily located under the ribs. It's really hard to get at. Unless your liver is swollen and expanded downwards

The liver? Hmmm...

---------------------------------
Please don't think they give a shit.

PIRATENEWS

Thursday, February 16, 2006 12:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:

I don't believe the "shot migrated" story. It leaves the reader with the impression that the shot somehow migrated from Whittington's face to his heart. The only way it could "migrate" that far would be through a large blood vein, which means the shot would have penetrated a deep blood vessel in his neck and likely would have bled to death.

SO, you shoot someone in the face at close range who is wearing an orange vest. Either you're a flippin' idiot, drunk, high, having a seizure, sneezing, or some combination of the above.

Just like that movie Fantastic Voyage - a nano submarine run by nano midgets "migrated" the Magic Bullet to the heart.

He's dead, Jim. Filed in the morgue next to Bush biz partner USAma Bin Laden.

Media Ignores Cheney 'Smoking Gun'
A 28-gauge shotgun fired at 30 yards is too weak to cause Whittington's injuries
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/infowarsnews/message/723

If lawyer dies, Cheney might face negligence charge
www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/02/15/cheney.legal.ap/index.html?section=cnn_law

"Hey hey hey! Them ain't Kosherized rules!"
-Jayne

FIREFLY SERENITY PILOT MUSIC VIDEO:
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/01/8310.php
(try again later if server is crashed)

PIRATENEWS

Thursday, February 16, 2006 12:06 AM

oops - double-clicked on my trigger finger - so that's how cheney shot him TWICE with his double-barrel shotgun:

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:

I don't believe the "shot migrated" story. It leaves the reader with the impression that the shot somehow migrated from Whittington's face to his heart. The only way it could "migrate" that far would be through a large blood vein, which means the shot would have penetrated a deep blood vessel in his neck and likely would have bled to death.

SO, you shoot someone in the face at close range who is wearing an orange vest. Either you're a flippin' idiot, drunk, high, having a seizure, sneezing, or some combination of the above.

Just like that movie Fantastic Voyage - a nano submarine run by nano midgets "migrated" the Magic Bullet to the heart.

He's dead, Jim. Filed in the morgue next to Bush biz partner USAma Bin Laden.

VIDEO DOWNLOAD: CHENEY BLOWS LAWYER'S HEAD CLEAN OFF - MSNBC: Andrea Mitchell, wife of Sir Alan Greenspan Knight of the British Empire, head counterfeiter of all US "money" at multinational Fed Reserve Bankster Corporation, is tasked with major coverup of Cheney's drunken shooting binge:
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/02/8519.php

Drunk Dick lone gunman shoots man in head AND heart. 2-time DUI convict Cheney dodges deputies for 14 hours.
http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/piratenewsrss/message/127

"I didn't start it! I just wanted a quiet drink."
-Mal

FIREFLY SERENITY PILOT MUSIC VIDEO:
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/01/8310.php
(try again later if server is crashed)

PIRATENEWS

Thursday, February 16, 2006 12:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:

We must rely on the testimony of the witnesses to say what happened. In this case, as a Prosecutor, I can say that the most compelling testimony comes from the victim, who says it was an accident and takes partial responsibility on himself for not announcing his approach. The victim says no harm, no foul...then I'd never in the absense of other compelling evidence or testimony, charge Cheney with a serious crime (there may be minor charges here, the game stamp for one, but that was resolved).

Cheney has confessed to perping a CRIME OF HUNTING WITHOUT A LICENSE, during which HE NEGLIGENTLY SHOT A HUMAN PERSON. HE CONFESSED TO OBSTRUCTING JUSTICE by ordering his armed gunmen bodyguard DEATH SQUAD to stop sheriff deputies from "interviewing" or observing or "SMELLING THE ODOR OF ALCOHOL" on Cheney for 14 hours. I'm sure the deputies would testify that THEY FEARED BEING MURDERED BY SECRET SERVICE. We have NOT seen ANY TV interviews of the victim, so WE HAVE ZERO CREDIBLE EVIDENCE THAT THE VICTIM IS STILL ALIVE.

TV talking heads have occasionally asked, "Would an average citizen be allowed to shoot someone in the head, then refuse to speak to police for 14 hours, without fear of arrest?"

The GOOD lesson in law to be learned from our VICE president is NEVER TALK TO POLICE. Just say NO, "I respectfully decline to answer that question." Or do what Cheney does and RUN AWAY, and defend yourself with bodyguards with machine guns and grenades. This is an important lesson that NO ONE is discussing. DON'T fall for the TeeVee brainwashing on COPS and People's Courts, by confessing your life story to the Police State Gulag Death Camp cartel via Tourett's Syndrome. SHUT UP!

Think how low our taxes would be if millions of Americans accused of "victimless crimes" could not be convicted and incarcerated (tortured) at a cost to ALL taxpayers of $50,000/year per prisoner.

This is the problem with our Police State - copsters arrest 100-MILLION Amerikans every year for victimless non-crimes, extort money from them, which wastes police time so the REAL criminals have nothing to worry about, except perhaps paying their bribes to copsters, judges and politicians to "license" their criminal enterprises.

If Cheney pleads guilty to a crime, either "negligent discharge of a firearm", "aggrevated assault", "involuntary manslaughter" or "criminally negligent homicide", then you can BET that Bush Jr will PARDON Cheney, just like Sir George Bush Sr Knight of the BRITISH Empire pardoned his cocaine-dealing employees at White House during Iran-Contra, which Cheney was a part of.

RUE

Thursday, February 16, 2006 12:57 AM

I personally don't invoke international conspiracies to imagine Cheney as a drunk, weasley, shifty coward.

Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.

PIRATENEWS

Thursday, February 16, 2006 1:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:

Am I a Prosecutor? (Looks at little gold badge..) I hope so, otherwise I'm going to be in real trouble for sending that guy to jail yesterday for his OMVI (in Ohio we simplified DUI by changing it to OMVI which is Operating a Motor Vehicle Under the Influence).

You say the victim does not decide whether or not a law was broken. Neither do I. The truth of whether or not a law was broken is not relevant to the issue. Thats for the Jury (or the Judge for a bench trial) to decide.

My consideration is my good faith belief that I can prove a violation of the law beyond reasonable doubt. For that I need witnesses and/or evidence. In this case we have witnesses all agreeing its an accident and experts (including myself as a hunter and a person whose been near missed by buckshot while sitting on my own back porch near a state game lands, back when I lived in PA as a kid that is) who agree it was an accident. No evidence or witnesses as yet to the contrary. The victim even agrees it was an accident and takes some small measure of responsibility. There is no grounds for a criminal case, not because a law may or may not have been brokem, but because if one might have been broken, there is simply no way to prove it.

I also note for the record the police report posted on Smoking Gun indicates that the victim was interviewed and his story is the same as the Vice Presidents. So while he may not have rushed to a microphone to give a press conferance, both parties did give statements to the only people who really deserve one, the police.

I also note for the record that while there is no viable criminal case at this time, the victim has a hell of a civil case against Cheney and the property owner...civil standards of proof are much lower.

So you're one of those scumbag "prosecutors" for the COMMUNIST Police State Death Camp Gulag Scam. For you to call yourself a "Hero" simply shows your own insanity. You aren't a "prosecutor", you're a pussy.

Quote:
"My client was running nekked in the woods, and another hiker got mad and started a fight, resulting in arrest of my client. It turned out the hiker who started the fight was prosecuting attorney. My naked client kicked his ass. Ha! After I kicked the prosecutor's ass in court, we ran up a $10,000 bar tab in celebration, billed to the client!"
-My brother, the trial lawyer, licensed pilot and new aircraft salesman, current candidate for judge

"Government control of Communications and Transportation."
-Communist Manifesto, 6th Plank, written by Jew Karl Marx in London, England

"You will be happy to learn that the former head of the KGB (the secret police of the former Soviet Union), General Yevgeni Primakov, has been hired as a consultant by the US Department of Homeland Security."
—Al Martin, AlMartinRaw.com, Behind the Scenes in the Beltway, "Get Ready for the USSA (The United Soviet States of America)," March 17, 2003

It's ASSHOLE CRIMINAL prosecutors like you who refuse to prosecute REAL criminals LIKE CHENEY AND BUSHES, while prosecuting MILLIONS of honest Americans for VICTIMLESS NON-crimes. WHY DON'T YOU PROSECUTE 30-MILLION CRIMINAL ALIEN TERRORISTS IN USA TODAY, FOR THE CRIMES OF CRIMINAL TRESPASS, FRAUD, THEFT, ROBBERY, RAPE, DRUG DEALING AND MURDER?!

For example, as you know, "DUI" is BS, since the non-crime does NOT involve alcohol, there is NO "passing score" for so-called "alcohol tests", does NOT require alcohol to get a conviction, and does NOT require driving to get a conviction. "DUI" IS IN FACT THE TOTAL PROHIBITION OF ALCOHOL, as most 18 to 20-year-old adults know all too well. "DUI" law is a FRAUD and a SCAM perpetrated by Gangsta Govt and their "Jewish" masters in the "insurance" protection/extortion rackets, against the gullible illiterate public.

Thanks for opening the door to this line of questioning.

First Defense:

There is NO "passing score" for an "alcohol test". A victim is ALREADY under arrest BEFORE taking a so-called "breath-alcohol test".

Exhibit

CARTOON

Thursday, February 16, 2006 2:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
But I noticed that Hero and his doppleganger Cartoon ignore my common-sense posts. (snip)

Actually I found your post to be quite worthy of a thoughtful response...except for the quip about my Prosecutorial credentials.

If I'm Hero's doppleganger, does that mean that I'm an assistant prosecutor?!?!

Actually, I don't think Hero needs an assistant. He's well able to handle any comments from peanut gallery on his own.

I'm basically just agreeing with the few bits of sanity I've seen in here lately (which would include Geezer and Kwicko and perhaps a few others).

Grateful for the few voices of reason crying in a wilderness of ineptitude, folly, and imagined conspiracies.

Would rather be the janitor in a house of reason than the king of the asylum.

RUE

Thursday, February 16, 2006 2:32 AM

Cartoon

Quote:
I'm basically just agreeing with the few bits of sanity I've seen in here lately (which would include Geezer and Kwicko and perhaps a few others).

Grateful for the few voices of reason crying in a wilderness of ineptitude, folly, and imagined conspiracies.

Actually, you're doing much more than that. I reviewed all of your posts. In them I found ad hominem attacks, straw-man arguments, false reasoning etc, and plain old flame-baiting in every sentence.

Here are the specifics, in order:

Quote:
Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if most of the major networks didn't carry the story like the title of this post.

undistributed middle, subverted support

Quote:
After all (as I've said elsewhere in this forum), we all know that Bush (which, I suppose, would have to include Cheney by association) is responsible for everything bad that's ever happened to mankind.

existential fallacy, straw man, subverted support

Quote:
Actually, I think in Texas you're required to shoot someone -- aren't you?

straw man

Quote:
Incidentally, I think next time Cheney should take the Washington Press Corps hunting with him. That would make a whole lot of people very happy.

straw man, hasty generalization

Quote:
The big problem with your train of thought, Hero, is that it's logical, makes sense, and wasn't conceived while smoking an illegal substance.

attacking the person

Quote:
The thing you (and most intelligent, sane-thinking folks like you) don't understand is that everything is Cheney's fault.

attacking the person, appeal to authority, style over substance

Quote:
Even if Cheney was the person who'd been shot, and he didn't possess a gun, it would've been his fault.

straw man, slippery slope, prejudicial language, subverted support

Quote:
I agree. A lot of this stuff is hilarious. But, uh -- they, uh -- they actually believe it.

attacking the person

So, I conclude that your main goal is to be petty and snide since you can't seem to put a real argument together.

Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.

PIRATENEWS

Thursday, February 16, 2006 3:01 AM

Quote:
rue wrote:

Actually, you're doing much more than that. I reviewed all of your posts. In them I found ad hominem attacks, straw-man arguments, false reasoning etc, and plain old flame-baiting in every sentence.

Yes, Propaganda 101.

DREAMTROVE

Thursday, February 16, 2006 4:06 AM

Team Pirate,

Actually, I think you're being unfair here. Some people on the forum used to propagandize, but I think if cartoon does it he's unintentionally regurgitating something that he has taken in, we all have some of that in our systems because the media feeds it to us daily.

You, too, pirates, have this. You don't think you do because you think it comes only from the MSM, but it comes from the conspiracy media as well. The vast majority of conspiracy sites out there are loaded with propaganda not relavent to their stories.

Allow me to explain.

Let's say there's a man, let's call him Icke, who has an agenda, to spread the word of Christ. He will then find fallacies about anyone else, flaws in any official story, and post them. If he tells you that someone has taken bribes from some corporation, it may be true. Telling you that is not in line with his goals, he doesn't gain directly from you believing it, but he does gain your trust, and subtle seeds are fed in to the stories to attract you to his true position.

Now Icke is an obvious example of this, but there is a a lot of that to a lesser degree elsewhere. There are many things that you guys have picked up.

In particular, Pirate News, I think you, who I have some respect for, because you really know a lot of stuff, have picked up, and I would call these clay pigeons, or possibly lawyers, I'm not always sure:

1. UFOs. Not much of this comes through, but the only UFOs around are military aircraft.

2. Christianity. You aren't on the Icke slant, but you don't attack Christ as viciously as you should. Church conspiracies have been some of the most vile in history, and continue to be so.

3. Jews. An awful lot of people in these conspiracies are not jewish, and when they are, or remotely so, their jewishness is totally irrelevent to their involvement. The closest thing to the truth here is that our zionism is connected to the fact that Wolfowitz and Perle are jewish. While there may be something in this, Zionism is just being used to achieve a greater end here.

I'm just trying to shine a light in your direction so you can see through the filter and maybe hit the truth.

SIGNYM

Thursday, February 16, 2006 4:34 AM

Quote:
Grateful for the few voices of reason crying in a wilderness of ineptitude, folly, and imagined conspiracies.

Umm, so tell me, Cartoon... which conspiracies did I support? Or is this your usual baseless ad hominem attack?

---------------------------------
Please don't think they give a shit.

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