GO-Bag and General Carry

POSTED BY: Wulfenstar
UPDATED: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 03:45
VIEWED: 8047
PAGE 1 of 1

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, January 20, 2011 7:03 PM

Just wondering what other folks carry on a daily basis.

I usually have on me: 1. Glock G23 (2 extra mags/hollow points) 2. SpyderCo folding knife 3. Zippo 4. Swiss Army knife 5. Cell phone 6. Pocket flashlight 7. Wallet 8. Keys

How about you?

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

P.S I'm all out of fuken bubblegum.

MINCINGBEAST

Thursday, January 20, 2011 7:11 PM

You carry a lot of weapons, but no grenades.

I carry: keys, wallet, smart phone, and the weight of the world.

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, January 20, 2011 7:33 PM

Well, I am just usually robbing the place, not taking it over...

But really? Am I the only one who carries this heavy?

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

P.S I'm all out of fuken bubblegum.

BYTEMITE

Thursday, January 20, 2011 7:46 PM

Simmering anger that at any moment could turn into a full on table-throwing rage. Or mad laughter. It varies.

That's usually enough. Though I also have pencils, pens, a set of keys, my boots, my watch, a heavy backpack, matches, several extra layers to mitigate knife wound damage to my legs and torso, and worst of all, a vial of liquid paper. In addition to this, I have a quirky sense of humor and am flat out nuts.

I used to carry a pocket knife, but then I thought I might be giving myself an unfair advantage. I've also considered hair spray, but then I thought, "you can't draw smiley faces on them with hair spray."

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, January 20, 2011 7:48 PM

lol

Just saying, what with the crazies, the robbers, etc, it seems silly NOT to be prepared.

But ok. Never mind then. Carry on.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

P.S I'm all out of fuken bubblegum.

THEHAPPYTRADER

Thursday, January 20, 2011 9:10 PM

I work with children, so I do not carry any guns or any knives. I have a swiss army knife somewhere... I usually look for it before I go camping. I took a martial arts class at the university my final year, and while I have no delusions of that making me an expert fighter (perhaps not even a capable one) if I were in a violent confrontation I think I'd feel more confident with my feet and fist than with a weapon, even if my opponent was armed.

I have my wallet, keys, phone, metronome and tuner on me. Sometimes I place my drum sticks in a back pocket, and/or carry a musical instrument with me.

DREAMTROVE

Thursday, January 20, 2011 9:50 PM

I have no phone, sometimes I have this iPad. Someday the galaxy if I get it work. I carry no keys, a wallet, sometimes, with a license and card, I look forward to the day when I will need no card or biometric scan, a simple username and password will suffice.

I'm non violent, religious, you know. I don't think of my religious restrictions as restrictions, but rules for a better life. They require me to come up wih other solutions. I have several times found myself cornered by people with loaded guns pointed at me, threatening to kill me. Ive found I've always been able to talk my way out of the situation.

I've used guns in target practice. Years of video games have made me a pretty good shot. I can hit my target about 60% of the time. That's not good enough for me to have survived the number of gun encounters I've had if I had to rely on my marksmanship for survival.

Correction: once I had to run. The woman was a psycho and a sniper, and was trying to shoot anything that moved. Check that, two psycho snipers, but only one actually snot at me, the other I stayed out of range. I also had to run once from a knife fight, the attacker was a sub literate throwback who was convinced he was Satan. I don't mean this in a light gothie wannabe way, I mean in a serious brain damage way, I would like to know some martial arts so i could deal with this sort of situation.

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, January 20, 2011 10:21 PM

Well, Im fluent in Krav, 52 Blocks (Jailhouse Rock)... but I think its always better to have a gun.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

P.S I'm all out of fuken bubblegum.

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:11 PM

Phone, car and house keys, wallet, lipbalm.

I'm glad I don't live near you.

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:24 PM

I actually live in a very nice area now.

Just some.. reactions.. don't go away.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

P.S I'm all out of fuken bubblegum.

CANTTAKESKY

Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:28 PM

I carry cash, and one key to my house. Sometimes and a credit card and my passport (for credit card ID) if I am shopping a lot.

I would be a pretty rotten pacifist if I carried weapons. :P

Can't Take (my gorram) Sky
------
Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.

STORYMARK

Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:28 PM

Wallet, keys, phone. Sometimes a chapstick. Occasionally my iPod. That's about it.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Friday, January 21, 2011 12:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
I actually live in a very nice area now.

Just some.. reactions.. don't go away.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

P.S I'm all out of fuken bubblegum.

That's why you feel to need to arm yourself to the teeth when you go visit the shopping centre. I guess some old granny might try and pinch your parking spot. Got to prepare yourself for reacting to that kind of tyranny, right?

HARDWARE

Friday, January 21, 2011 12:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Just wondering what other folks carry on a daily basis.

I usually have on me: 1. Glock G23 (2 extra mags/hollow points) 2. SpyderCo folding knife 3. Zippo 4. Swiss Army knife 5. Cell phone 6. Pocket flashlight 7. Wallet 8. Keys

How about you?

When I carry it is either a Glock 17 and a spare mag or a Springfield stainless GI 1911a1 and 2 spares. Plus a flashlight, multi tool and a Columbia River KISS knife, keys and an iPhone.

Go bag is always in the vehicle along with an inexpensive bolt action rifle and 80 rounds of ammo. Unless I'm traveling behind the lines into NJ, NY and MA. If then I leave the rifle and rely on my Dead On demolition tool.

Kel Tec P-11 rests in my desk at work.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

BYTEMITE

Friday, January 21, 2011 12:59 AM

I imagine they don't have this problem in Australia, but thieves often stake out parking lots watching for people who have made expensive and easily pawnable purchases, then follower the buyer out to the next store / their house, and break in to get at the goods when the buyer leaves again. It pays to target richer low-crime areas in this case.

Normally they're not grandmothers.

There are other situations I can think up as well why it's not a BAD idea to be prepared, at least in America. Surely you've noticed Americans seem more crazy, in general, than Australians or the British.

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Friday, January 21, 2011 1:09 AM

I always knew they shot each other more, but I've only really started to get a handle on the American psyche (and psychos) since I started posting on the Internet.

FREMDFIRMA

Friday, January 21, 2011 2:51 AM

Geeze, lemme put it to you this way, back when I was in high school and they pulled that old "smelled marijuana" crap as an excuse to search a bunch of us...

The sight of me in that office lead to groans of misery, cause the phrase "empty your pockets" was gonna be a half-hour affair with a whole lotta WTF?! involved, to the point where they'd just send me on my merry instead of searching me.

Because of my jobs being generally something riskier than office work, and being a pain the ass to various powers that be, I wear class II-A light armor and my jacket is reinforced with TaserShield and ballistic cloth - although in practice that's more to keep my puny arse warm in the frozen wastes of Michigan than anything else, and off-duty I do carry a piece, sure...

Yet I am ever more likely to use anything in reach unless I feel blasting someone is really warranted, which is a damn rare thing in the real world, don't you know.

Nah, what drives folks nuts is the tools, you see.

Be damned if imma list em all, but some of the more useful and pocketable ones....

Supermag firestarter.
http://www.rockcreek.com/camping-essentials/magnesium-firestarter/?ref
=a_cjfeed

The now-infamous "Bone Wrench".
http://www.amazon.com/Thorsen-Tools-Dog-Bone-Wrench/dp/B001O3E7UG

The Victorinox Swiss-X.
http://www.amazon.com/Victorinox-SwissTool-X-Pouch-53936/dp/B00004YVB1
/ref=pd_cp_hi_2

Spark Plug Gapper.
http://www.amazon.com/Lisle-67870-Spark-Plug-Gauge/dp/B0002STS2Q

LifeGear 6-in-1 with Cell Phone Charger.
http://www.amazon.com/Life-Gear-PSD6in1DC-Personal-Safety/dp/B0015H0P5
M

I could go on, but you get the idea, even though none of it bulks that much, I really am kind of a mobile repair shop on legs, and most of my on-board kit is decided to repairing YOUR on-board or other kit, up to and including a pistol cleaning kit which bulks no more than a magic marker.

Like Burt Gummer, only with tools.

Quote:
Jodi: Uh, but do we have a lighter?
Jack: Burt does.
Burt: How do you know?
Jack: Well, 'cause you're... Burt.
......
Burt: *presenting lighter* Damn right I am.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CrazyPrepared

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

ANTHONYT

Friday, January 21, 2011 2:55 AM

Hello,

"Correction: once I had to run. The woman was a psycho and a sniper, and was trying to shoot anything that moved. Check that, two psycho snipers, but only one actually snot at me, the other I stayed out of range."

This... begs for a larger story.

"I've only really started to get a handle on the American psyche (and psychos) since I started posting on the Internet."

Most people are quite normal and sane, even in America. I think there may be a certain cultural pride in being perceived as formidable, dangerous people. However, I also think the average person here is much like the average person anywhere. The cultural mythology may be different in other countries, but mythologies are mythologies. I'm sure the Australians like to be known for something. I'm not sure what, because Crocodile Dundee and Crocodile Hunter is nearly my entire exposure to Australia. Crazy wilderness adventuring?

"How about you?"

I usually don't carry. I have a three-foot chain upon which my keys are fastened, but that is not for the purpose of defense. Rather, it ensures I don't lose my keys. I have a mini-swiss army knife, but that is for cutting the many miscelaneous things one encounters in urban life, from clothing threads to retail packaging.

When I do carry for personal protection (on the rare instances I feel the need), it is either a .22 single-action bird's head grip revolver from Heritage Manufacturing or a .380 Makarov. This, kept in a belt pouch called a- (I wonder if Kane will chime in here) Fast Action Gun bag. It has pockets for wallet, money, etc. It also unzips to reveal the weapon.

For neighborhood watch, I carry a large maglight and a mace-dispenser. I do not like the idea of carrying a firearm when I am patrolling, and I'd have trouble articulating to you why that is.

The only other weapon I ever carry is a .357 single-action revolver, when I go shooting in the desert. My long-arms are stowed in a storage case until needed for practice, and so I don't think they qualify as 'carrying.'

--Anthony

Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

HARDWARE

Friday, January 21, 2011 3:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

That's why you feel to need to arm yourself to the teeth when you go visit the shopping centre. I guess some old granny might try and pinch your parking spot. Got to prepare yourself for reacting to that kind of tyranny, right?

1) Criminals refuse to make appointments.

2) Cops are too heavy to carry.

How many observation cameras do you have near you? I bet there are plenty. But crime hasn't been curtailed at all, has it? All they do is help the police identify the corpses after the crime is over.

Fortunately I live in a state that has affirmative self defense.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

DREAMTROVE

Friday, January 21, 2011 3:20 AM

Magon

This forum is not a representative sample. Firefly is a gunslinger show, among other things. You get a much more gun weilding fanbase than the general population.

My encounters with guns not mine were often as not outside of America. I live in redneckistan. I rarely see guns here. No one here "carries" except cops.

We have hunters, and you hear gunshots that time of year, hunting season. I think of this as American idiocy, a lot of these hunters, the majority actually, come up from the city. Every year there's an accident, and someone gets shot. But honestly, the most deadly thing around here is the roads. Cars, but more than that, trucks, if you're looking for violent death.

Pollution kills between 10 to 100 times as much as everything else combined. That's the true American idiocy, but it's slow and invisible. There's basically a few types of chemical contamination: Water, probably the most deadly, food, second, is laced with all sorts of stuff, and then there's hospital contamination, particular in vaccines, which is why you here so much about it, it's not a statistically insignificant killer. Air pollution is pretty low on the killer list, outside of smokers, but it's increasing.

Australia is looking better every day.

HARDWARE

Friday, January 21, 2011 3:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Supermag firestarter.
http://www.rockcreek.com/camping-essentials/magnesium-firestarter/?ref
=a_cjfeed

The now-infamous "Bone Wrench".
http://www.amazon.com/Thorsen-Tools-Dog-Bone-Wrench/dp/B001O3E7UG

The Victorinox Swiss-X.
http://www.amazon.com/Victorinox-SwissTool-X-Pouch-53936/dp/B00004YVB1
/ref=pd_cp_hi_2

Spark Plug Gapper.
http://www.amazon.com/Lisle-67870-Spark-Plug-Gauge/dp/B0002STS2Q

LifeGear 6-in-1 with Cell Phone Charger.
http://www.amazon.com/Life-Gear-PSD6in1DC-Personal-Safety/dp/B0015H0P5
M

I have a firestarter as well as a swedish spark striker in my go bag. The bone wrench looks interesting, but I keep a cheap nut driver with a selection of bits. Might have to look at one of those wrenches though. I use the SOG multitool. It also has a 1/4 drive head, so the bits in the kit serve double duty. But that life gear unit, just got added to the "must have" list.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

THEHAPPYSOCKPUPPET

Friday, January 21, 2011 4:36 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
I always knew they shot each other more, but I've only really started to get a handle on the American psyche (and psychos) since I started posting on the Internet.

You're just jealous 'cause our cowboys are cooler than yours

Don't Australian's have to ride crocodiles or kangaroos or something. Do you store your knives in the kangaroo's pouch or would that cut it open?

It's kinda like England was 'mom' and Australia's just jealous their popular sibling, the United States, seems to get more attention from momma and rest of the world than they do.

1KIKI

Friday, January 21, 2011 5:46 AM

PERSONALLY carry? Or in the car?

I 'carry' first aid, survival supplies, transportation (bicycle) and emergency equipment in the car as the best place to 'carry' survival gear, as I will generally be near my car in the event of a storm, earthquake, wildfire etc.

Otherwise cell phone, keys, medication, ID, as I never know when I will need to travel and this keeps from from having to pack a bag. Also, generally being alert. I tend to notice if a car is following mine, even if it's a coincidence. And a decision I made years ago to GET INVOLVED without having to think about should-I shouldn't-I ....

I'm prepared, just not paranoid.

FREMDFIRMA

Friday, January 21, 2011 7:03 AM

Hoo boy, that commentary of mine inspired a friend to send me a pic of Nitori Kawashiro, apparently a character from the Touhou series of games, who seems to be a not-people-person river spirit who's also something of a mad engineer, of course no description really does it justice, so here's the picture instead, which really does say it all...

Heh heh.

-F

WULFENSTAR

Friday, January 21, 2011 12:13 PM

"That's why you feel to need to arm yourself to the teeth when you go visit the shopping centre. I guess some old granny might try and pinch your parking spot. Got to prepare yourself for reacting to that kind of tyranny, right?"

Its this kind of comment that is just....wrong? crazy?

You DO realize that the insane man who shot Gilford did so in the parking lot of a shopping center, right?

That violent crime can happen anywhere?

So why not be prepared for it as best as you can?

To quote: "Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it."

What I don't get in the whole anti-gun, gun-control mentality is this...

If the gun rights people have their way, you are STILL ABLE to NOT be armed.

But if the gun control crowd have their way, I am not allowed to carry to defend myself/family etc.

Gun rights still allow you to choose, gun control takes a very basic choice (of self-defense) away. Not to mention, gun control has NEVER worked, and has usually led to government abuse.

Plus I doubt criminals really care about the law. And would just find better ways to hide them.

So is the gun control mentality just an attempt for some people to pretend that they are safe?

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

P.S I'm all out of fuken bubblegum.

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Friday, January 21, 2011 12:40 PM

You and I see things differently. I know that is hard for you to understand.

The way I see it, the only reasons someone would carry a glock

- crime is really terribly out of control, where you live is like a warzone
- you are paranoid about crime being out of control, you watch too many crime shows on tv, you watch rubbish news which plays up all the threats of crime and you sincerely, but mistakenly believe your life is on the line everytime you leave the house
- you like to think of yourself as a big, tough man who carries an automatic weapon because that is how you make yourself important

I'm sure there are some places in the world where things are that bad that you would have to carry a weapon for protection. I'm glad I don't live in one of those places, and if it looked like going that way,I'd rather look at why such terrible crime existed, and what could be done to make it better, rather than have an armed civilian population.

DREAMTROVE

Friday, January 21, 2011 1:02 PM

Magon

You left one out

- you want to commit a crime.

HERO

Friday, January 21, 2011 1:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
How about you?

Keys, cellphone, wallet, badge. Don't usually carry my gun, although we had a crazy guy last year and we all carried till he was locked up (S&W .357 Magnum revolver that was my Dad's service pistol when he was a Deputy).

I also have lots of baggage...

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I would rather not ignore your contributions." Niki2, 2010.

JONGSSTRAW

Friday, January 21, 2011 1:37 PM

I carry nothing on me except wallet and keys. I do keep a "survival" kit in the car which includes the two most vital things needed in case of a catastrophe....pop tarts and toilet paper.

WULFENSTAR

Friday, January 21, 2011 1:59 PM

I had written this calm and reasonable response to Magons, but it got lost in the ether when I hit "post".

Oh well.

I'll sum it up.

1. Gun owners and those that carry, are generally more polite and non-aggressive than others. (Except for cops.. whom are a really bad example and probably all you've known.) Why? You have to be.

You can't get into an argument, and pull your gun. Thats assault.

You can't get into a physical altercation, because you might end up losing your gun, and having it turned on you.

If you pull your gun, it is now a matter of life and death, so it must always be a last resort.

Carrying a weapon is a huge responsibility. You mean to protect yourself, friends, family, property and neighbors. But you also have to be the kindest, most polite, sober person on the planet.

If you are going to insult others, at least have the common decency to know what you are talking about.

"you like to think of yourself as a big, tough man who carries an automatic weapon because that is how you make yourself important"

Its a semi-automatic. Automatic weapons are illegal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-automatic_firearm

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

P.S I'm all out of fuken bubblegum.

HARDWARE

Friday, January 21, 2011 2:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

The 10,000 pound ruck. I HATE those.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

HARDWARE

Friday, January 21, 2011 2:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
You and I see things differently. I know that is hard for you to understand.

Pot, kettle. Kettle, pot.

Quote:

The way I see it, the only reasons someone would carry a glock

- crime is really terribly out of control, where you live is like a warzone

12 Americans are killed every day in crimes committed by illegal aliens. Does this count?
http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=39031

Quote:

- you are paranoid about crime being out of control, you watch too many crime shows on tv, you watch rubbish news which plays up all the threats of crime and you sincerely, but mistakenly believe your life is on the line everytime you leave the house

Ever been a victim of crime? I've been carjacked. Does that make me "paranoid" or once burned, twice shy?

Quote:

- you like to think of yourself as a big, tough man who carries an automatic weapon because that is how you make yourself important

Actually, I'm a fat old man who has had his share of scuffling on the ground with someone, doesn't want any more holes poked in my precious anatomy and is impatient with idiots who want what does not belong to them.

And as stated, SEMI-automatic. Or would it be all okay with you if I carried a revolver?

Quote:

I'm sure there are some places in the world where things are that bad that you would have to carry a weapon for protection. I'm glad I don't live in one of those places, and if it looked like going that way,I'd rather look at why such terrible crime existed, and what could be done to make it better, rather than have an armed civilian population.

I really hope that someday you wake up to the realities of the world. But even then, most people are not fit to carry a weapon. I don't know what camp you belong in, the hoplophobes or citizens. Citizens believe that they have rights that cannot be taken from them by any government. That's what the US Bill of Rights is all about. Hoplophobes cannot distinguish between A)An armed citizen and a criminal. The mere presence of a weapon makes them uneasy, even on a police officer. B)The use of a tool to commit a crime and the crime being committed by the tool.

A carry piece is a weapon of convenience. If I know that someone is going to be trying to mug me on July 21st at 7:30pm, I am NOT going to show up with a pistol. I'm bringing a longarm and I'm also bringing friends, with their longarms.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

HARDWARE

Friday, January 21, 2011 2:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Magon

You left one out

- you want to commit a crime.

Hoplophobia at its finest.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

WULFENSTAR

Friday, January 21, 2011 3:01 PM

Hoplophobe:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hoplophobe

:)

"An irrational fear of weapons, generally guns, usually occuring as a result of a liberal upbringing or the fact that the person is just a wimp in general. Rather than deal with the fear said hoplophobe will assign human characteristics to a weapon ie "guns are evil" or "guns kill" to justify the fear rather than deal with the core problem of being a sissy.

----Due to his aversion to weapons, all the the police could do for young Seth (the hoplophobe) was chalk his cold dead body out on the floor as he had no defense for the thug that broke into his one bedroom apartment in San Fran. The police noted the irony in the fact that the killer had scored three hits in the "O" portion of Seth's OBAMA 08 T-shirt."

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

P.S I'm all out of fuken bubblegum.

ANTHONYT

Friday, January 21, 2011 3:13 PM

Hello Magons,

I am glad you feel comfortable in your lifestyle and environment. I am sorry some feel the need to denigrate it. I also dream of a world where no one ever feels the need to carry a firearm for defense. I think we should work towards that world, however we choose to equip ourselves in the interim.

I also look forward to a world where no one feels the need to lock their doors. It's the same principle. There was such a world, once, in some places on Earth. I hear the legends. Perhaps we can rediscover it together.

--Anthony

Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

WULFENSTAR

Friday, January 21, 2011 3:18 PM

Also..

Its kind of funny how its the places that severely curb gun-rights that often have the most violent crime...

Hmmmm. I wonder why?

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

P.S I'm all out of fuken bubblegum.

CUDA77

Friday, January 21, 2011 3:53 PM

Cell phone, keys, money clip, iPod and occasionally a pack of gum. If taking public transit I'll have some quarters on me but otherwise that's all I need.

Socialist and unashamed about it.

WULFENSTAR

Friday, January 21, 2011 4:03 PM

Anthony I think everyone wants to live in a world where guns are not needed, but easily available if they are.

Thats the compromise.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

P.S I'm all out of fuken bubblegum.

CANTTAKESKY

Friday, January 21, 2011 5:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Its kind of funny how its the places that severely curb gun-rights that often have the most violent crime...

What places are you thinking of, for example?

Can't Take (my gorram) Sky
------
Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.

WULFENSTAR

Friday, January 21, 2011 6:01 PM

DC, Baltimore, NJ, Detroit, Chicago, LA.....

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

FREMDFIRMA

Friday, January 21, 2011 9:00 PM

LMAO Hardware - just imagine lugging the standard 80-pounder, AND an M60A1 crew served with an AA barrel on it at port arms with the loading pan hooked in your web gear to hold it up, and a full box of ammo attached to the back of said web gear along with six 40MM grenades on the front for your loaders M-79...

And being all of 5'6" and maybe 130 some lbs, soakin wet, with boots on.

I did this for a multitude of reasons, primarily cause nutters get a free pass on paperwork, which I hated worse than lugging all that, but also cause third-rate expendable supply units are the second to hit the ground in a conflict, and the only reliable anti-armor we had which might do for a cold-war BMP, was the half-belt of AP ammo at the bottom of that can - but also cause the M16 of the time would not fire reliably no matter what, and the M60A1 had NO problem with going bang when you pulled the trigger... getting it to STOP however (aka Run-away-fire), was another matter entire.

Of course, I am sidewalking the argument as a whole cause it amounts to Anarchist argument tactics anyways...

Quote:
Pots: KETTLES MUST DIE, YEEARGGHH!

Kettles: POTS MUST DIE, YEEARGGH!

Anarchists: Ok, anyone bring popcorn ?

Cause that's kinda how it goes sometimes, and all one can do is watch, really.

We *did* have a bit of fun with badly worded open-carry laws in a suburb of Houston for a while, where it became a game to go grocery shopping while strapped with the most esoteric, archaic, bizzare collection of hardware you could possibly adorn yourself with, which for me at the time included a cavalry sword, and I think I might still have that three-headed flail around here somewhere...
Although it was damn funny when some hoodlum asked me what I would *DO* if he pulled a gun, and I just smiled as Mella put her double-barrell sawed off gently against his spine.

ProTip: The girl standing off to one side of me, doesn't matter what she looks like, she's there for muscle, everyone knows this, locally, leading to the endless amusement of the 4' 10" 90lb Wendy, who does the whole mafia torpedo thing for laughs... especially since it actually *works* after what she did to those creeps who tried to crash her place, oh man.
Actually the one to look out for is Sarah, who started carrying a zapgun so potent it comes with a warning that using it constitutes lethal force after the college cops turned out to be useless, and you do NOT want her behind you with that thing.

Anyhow, to get back on topic - here's part of WHY for them that might take a reasonable argument.

Detroit women get no help in arrest of alleged car thief
http://www.detnews.com/article/20110121/METRO01/101210376/Detroit-wome
n-get-no-help-in-arrest-of-alleged-car-thief

Quote:
An alleged car thief got more than he bargained for when three women yanked him out of the vehicle he was trying to steal, held him down and made a citizen's arrest.

But when the women repeatedly called Detroit Police, they said nobody responded, so they decided to walk the man to the nearby Central District police station. On the way, they said they encountered a Detroit police officer — who they claim refused to take the man into custody.

When your so-called protectors will not protect you, and instead prey on you as badly or worse as the bad actors in your society, who then does your defense fall to BUT you ?

Although I am right pissed cause while EMT and Fire Services cannot even respond effectively due to police sucking up all the budget money, it gets pissed away on shit like THIS

DPS unveils $5.6M police center
http://www.detnews.com/article/20110121/SCHOOLS/101210370/1409/DPS-unv
eils-$5.6M-police-center

And yes, I call bullshit, on the notion that this draconian concept has any bloody thing to do with public safety, in fact, would ANYONE, ANYONE AT ALL, care to take bets with me on how long before this is abused as a peepshow or a harrassment tactic against students who aren't servile enough, hmmm ?
Especially considering *just how often* I've ca

WULFENSTAR

Friday, January 21, 2011 9:06 PM

I would add to Frems rant..

Even if you could trust in good cops, they are kind of heavy, and hard to keep chained in a basement.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

FREMDFIRMA

Friday, January 21, 2011 9:14 PM

Actually most of my local ones ain't, nor are they roid-boys, since our efforts to rein them in and make them behave have not only been effective, but replacing them with contract security has had mutual benefit and inspired them to compete to remain relevant - as well as allocate themselves to the situation where you really *NEED* someone with law enforcement powers on the spot, versus a few quiet words or implied threats to resolve a problem.

Many of the "issues" around here, bothering with an actual police response is like swatting flies with a lincoln town car.

That said, there's an ongoing antagonism between me and them cause sterotypes be damned, I *DO* like my fuckin donuts, and for them to be police and not partake... it's, it's.. BLASPHEMY, it's HERESY, unacceptable!
Ok, I kid, I kid... but I *do* mercilessly screw with them about it.

To which, for your amusement, you GOT to hand it to the Clare Michigan Police Dept, they *bought* the freakin donut shop, and now operate it.
http://www.copsdoughnuts.com/
The available apparel is a nice touch, I actually have one of the "Don't glaze me, bro" T-shirts, hehehe.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Friday, January 21, 2011 9:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hardware:

12 Americans are killed every day in crimes committed by illegal aliens. Does this count?
http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=39031

So what you are saying is that it would be better to be killed by an American citizen?

Quote:

Ever been a victim of crime? I've been carjacked. Does that make me "paranoid" or once burned, twice shy?

Somewhere where there is regaular carjacking would fit my definition of crime being terribly out of control. I can think of some parts of the world where I would seriously think of taking a weapon if I had to go there - Johanasburg is one of them - notorious for carjacking and murder and rape is kind of a hobby for some.

And in answer to your question, yes I have been a victim of crime. I've been burgarled (3 X)

Quote:

Actually, I'm a fat old man who has had his share of scuffling on the ground with someone, doesn't want any more holes poked in my precious anatomy and is impatient with idiots who want what does not belong to them.

You see that's where I lose sympathy a bit with some of the gun carrying stuff. If you are doing it to protect your life because you live in the war zone, fair enough. If you are doing it because someone might nick your wallet, hmmm. Another solution is not to carry anything valuable with you. I walk around with $50 cash max. Anybody wants to mug me, they can have my wallet. I'd rather hand it over and cancel my credit cards than get into a deadly gun fight.

Quote:
And as stated, SEMI-automatic. Or would it be all okay with you if I carried a revolver?
I'm not comfortable with people carrying guns at all, but if I visit your neck of the woods, I'll psyche myself up to it.

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Friday, January 21, 2011 9:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Magon

You left one out

- you want to commit a crime.

haha, thanks for reminding me.

WULFENSTAR

Friday, January 21, 2011 9:57 PM

"I'm not comfortable with people carrying guns at all, but if I visit your neck of the woods, I'll psyche myself up to it."

Magons,

Im not comfortable with people telling me that I should forfeit my families safety on the whims of spoiled, over-privaledged, bitches and assholes living behind guilded walls.

Fuck that. Like I should EVER sacrifice the safety of me and mine so some spoiled people can feel "more comfortable"?

Never in this life.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

THEHAPPYTRADER

Friday, January 21, 2011 10:07 PM

Quote:
If you are doing it because someone might nick your wallet, hmmm. Another solution is not to carry anything valuable with you. I walk around with $50 cash max. Anybody wants to mug me, they can have my wallet. I'd rather hand it over and cancel my credit cards than get into a deadly gun fight.

I'm with ya there, possibly the only place I agree lol. The loss of property is not worth the loss of life, anyone's. But, what if your mugger was also a rapist?

I'm not saying the gun will actually do any good, just that people, women especially, should have the right to arm and defend themselves. My personal opinion is that we'd be better off learning to defend ourselves with some form of martial arts. Less lethal, and in close quarters probably more effective.

IMO the right the bear arms is worth the price of some folks misusing and abusing them. That may sound cruel to some people, but it's not as if I don't consider people's lives important. I respect their lives and right to make their own choices.

EDIT: I've been mugged once, shortly after I left the small town I grew up in for a bigger (though not exactly big) city for college. I actually had no money on me, it was just frightening. It didn't inspire me to buy a knife or a gun, but it did inspire me to take up some martial arts training when my college schedule finally allowed for it.

WULFENSTAR

Friday, January 21, 2011 10:12 PM

"I'm not saying the gun will actually do any good, just that people, women especially, should have the right to arm and defend themselves."

- "God made man, but Sam Colt made them equal."

"My personal opinion is that we'd be better off learning to defend ourselves with some form of martial arts. Less lethal, and in close quarters probably more effective."

- Martial arts are effective right up to the point they are not. Why not have both?

"IMO the right the bear arms is worth the price of some folks misusing and abusing them. That may sound cruel to some people, but it's not as if I don't consider people's lives important. I respect their lives and right to make their own choices."

- Amen

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

NIKI2

Friday, January 21, 2011 10:16 PM

Quote:
I think there may be a certain cultural pride in being perceived as formidable, dangerous people. However, I also think the average person here is much like the average person anywhere.

Yup.

Quote:
This forum is not a representative sample. Firefly is a gunslinger show, among other things. You get a much more gun weilding fanbase than the general population.

Yup too.

I love this thread...Wulf likes to talk about violence, especially guns, so he puts up a question related to same. And there goes the gun argument again. Well done, Wulf, you got exactly what you set out to get.

As for me: Wallet, keys, cell phone, foldable close-up glasses, pen, sunglasses (can’t go outside without them; thanks, bipolarity), cigarettes, and a small bottle of ice tea and lip balm (thank you medications for both), handkerchief (thanx nasal drip). In the car, spare cigs/lighter, spare sunglasses, tissues, brush, spare handkerchief, and I don’t know what else. Back when I used to carry a purse, the list would be too long to type, and then yes, I did carry a big old buck knife. Had to give it up when returning from England---so pissed off I told them to keep it; sorry I didn’t have them send it with me, I kinda miss it. Very useful for any number of things.

I do realize your question was intended to illicit information on what weapons people carry and start yet ANOTHER useless conversation about guns and violence, and I can’t help smiling at that and how you managed to move it into a discussion of guns. Magons speaks for me in the post beginning “You and I see things differently”.

Quote:
Gun owners and those that carry, are generally more polite and non-aggressive than others.

Bullshit. Prove it. With statistics or other facts.

Quote:
You can't get into an argument, and pull your gun

Sure you can, if you’re drunk, high on about anything but marijuana, or so angry you’re not thinking straight. What it IS and what the consequences will be have nothing to do with how people react...it happens.

Quote:
You can't get into a physical altercation, because you might end up losing your gun, and having it turned on you.

Also bullshit, for the same above reasons.

Quote:
Carrying a weapon is a huge responsibility. You mean to protect yourself, friends, family, property and neighbors. But you also have to be the kindest, most polite, sober person on the planet.

That’s your opinion; it definitely doesn’t hold true for the majority of people who carry guns. Again: prove it.

Quote:
12 Americans are killed every day in crimes committed by illegal aliens.

I question your cite for that. It freely admits its figures come from “a number of groups” which have “produced estimates based on data collected” and caveats itself all over theplace:

Quote:
Though no federal statistics are kept on murders or any other crimes committed by illegal aliens, a number of groups have produced estimates based on data collected from prisons, news reports and independent research.
Twelve Americans are murdered every day by illegal aliens, according to statistics released by Rep. Steve King, R-Iowa. If those numbers are correct, it translates to 4,380 Americans murdered annually by illegal aliens. That's 21,900 since Sept. 11, 2001.

“Independent research”? The wording of the article makes it clear it’s intended to show a high number of deaths by illegal aliens. Given the thinking of the right on the subject of illegal aliens and that it's provided by a Republican, I don’t consider it a reliable source for figures on gun deaths throughout the country.

Yeah, we got a crime problem, and an illegal alien problem but it’s not about them alone.

Quote:
In 2004, there were 29,569 gun deaths in the U.S:

That works out to 81 people a day. That makes the deaths by illegal aliens pretty miniscule.

Quote:
I really hope that someday you wake up to the realities of the world. But even then, most people are not fit to carry a weapon.

Th

NIKI2

Friday, January 21, 2011 10:27 PM

While I was posting that:

Quote:
people telling me that I should forfeit my families(sic) safety on the whims of spoiled, over-privaledged, bitches and assholes living behind guilded walls.

There's our Wulf, our black-and-white thinker, incapable of even conceiving that anyone who isn't all his adjectives might want SOME CURB on the kinds of guns/ammo freely available, rather than a "whim", and that (I'm guessing) most guns aren't used to protect someone's family's safety. The statement is disproportionate and completely irrelevant to the discussion. He got what he wanted...again...a platform to spew.

Quote:
"God made man, but Sam Colt made them equal."

Now that’s not just stupid, it’s not true.

I have no problem with guns, and I think it might be fun to learn to shoot one. I'd consider it much the same I consider the bebe gun I scare rats off with (except that a bullet from a real gun might go into the next yard...I'm speaking merely in respect to I'd view it as something which, if I weren't careful, might hurt someone). That doesn't mean I think it's right for everyone to walk around with guns which were created especially for those who want to kill a lot of people all at once. You know, that old invisible middle ground.

This is ridiculous. Why not let the gunbunnies talk among themselves and talk about what kind of gun they carry, rather than waste time trying to debate their misguided and over-the-top points? It’s a personal decision, and this discussion, just like the birther one, will only waste time. There is a difference between wanting to ban all guns (which NOBODY does) and finding a decent middle ground, where those who think they need to (or actually DO need to) can carry a gun, while some things are inappropriate for the general public to easily acquire. But they’ll never grasp that; to people like Wulf, there are only two options...let people have anything they want, and ban everything. It’s not a discussion you can have.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

WULFENSTAR

Friday, January 21, 2011 10:28 PM

"And there goes the gun argument again. Well done, Wulf, you got exactly what you set out to get."

Actually I didnt.

I was wondering if anyone else had any other ideas for things to have if the SHTF. I mean I've only got so many pockets so...

I do like the Swiss army knife, better than the Leatherman for sentimental reasons.

But carry on Nicki.

You were saying that guns make crime, and blacks shouldn't be allowed guns or something?

"has nothing to do with gangs, inner-city living, ghettos, or anything like that. More homicides are committed by Blacks ON Blacks than on anyone else. But, you know, they’re Black, that’s the reason.."

I sort of glaze over when you go on a rant like this.

Like how you gloss over what I post.

But please, in a spirit of communication... continue.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

NIKI2

Friday, January 21, 2011 11:38 PM

Quote:
You were saying that guns make crime, and blacks shouldn't be allowed guns or something?

Where the hell did you get that from what I wrote? I was being fascetious in responding to your assumption that there was a connection between those cities' stricter gun laws and their higher crime rate. It's not a valid connection, and I was citing some of the reasons why...like those are big cities, which are more prone to gangs, ghettos, etc. where the value of life is different than it is in more rural areas. Get it? Has no connection to "guns make crime" or who should be allowed guns. Your mind works in strange ways, it "reads" things differently than they are written.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

KWICKO

Friday, January 21, 2011 11:42 PM

Wallet, keys, Carmex, phone, iPod, hat.

Any one of them can be a weapon. Or if you approach me with a gun and get close, I'll just use yours. ;)

This Space For Rent!

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Saturday, January 22, 2011 4:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
"I'm not comfortable with people carrying guns at all, but if I visit your neck of the woods, I'll psyche myself up to it."

Magons,

Im not comfortable with people telling me that I should forfeit my families safety on the whims of spoiled, over-privaledged, bitches and assholes living behind guilded walls.

Fuck that. Like I should EVER sacrifice the safety of me and mine so some spoiled people can feel "more comfortable"?

Never in this life.

Show me where I have ever called for any changes to your laws.

KANEMAN

Saturday, January 22, 2011 5:26 AM

Story..." Sometimes a chapstick."

LOL. yeah okay Kwicko....you cock suckers are hilarious....Well, it's true

WULFENSTAR

Saturday, January 22, 2011 1:53 PM

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bs-ed-smith-20110120,0,7
874660.column

Now back to the original question. Who here has GO/Bug Out Bags? What do you keep in them?

Not saying the zombies are going to rise tomorrow, but... :)

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

FREMDFIRMA

Sunday, January 23, 2011 2:32 AM

Allow me to note for the record that getting into a debate on statistics is no more useful here than it is concerning climate, and for the same reasons, one of which is *both* "sides" have blown any credibility with constant obfuscation, distortion and omissions bordering on outright lies.

That said, Niki, you are aware the folks handing out the statistics you posted consider a perp shot dead in the commission of a violent crime to be a "victim of gun violence" and add them to the tally, something which bothers me almost as much as Lott admitting he more or less pulled defensive gun use numbers out of his ass....

Like they say, lies, damn lies, and statistics.

I *will* say that having a reputation around here is handy, I was on my way back from the store and this wayne county cop (one I happen to actually know) did a hard (and illegal) U-turn and rolled up on a homeless guy, prolly bent on hassling him, and then spots ME glaring at him from my car on the other side, and simply drives off...
While there's something to be said for being armed as a check against tyranny, in the small scale of things, being a vicious opponent of it can be enough - he *knew* I woulda hauled out a camera or maybe even pulled over and watched.

Oh, and Magons ?

Instead of "nerving yourself up" to do something you do not at all feel comfortable with, I reccommend you simply buddy up with a trustworthy yank who does carry - whether to carry or not is a personal choice, and up to the individual, one I respect, so long as my choice is respected and not infringed or called upon to BE infringed because of what I *might* do, cause that is an ugly, ugly road to travel.

Besides which, allies trump bullets by a large margin, armed or not.

And finally, while I do realize that it's sooo much easier to ignore me completely and argue with idiot-boy cause he's a friggin bonehead with ego issues and tends to run his mouth with his brain stuck in neutral, thus making him a perfect strawman - lemme point out that in such a case it renders even the notion of adding my input kinda...

Pointless.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

HARDWARE

Sunday, January 23, 2011 6:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

Any one of them can be a weapon. Or if you approach me with a gun and get close, I'll just use yours. ;)

Funniest thing I've seen posted on this board in a while. Not that I'm looking to mug anyone, but if you try to use my gun on me Kwicko you're going to have to hit me with it. It's going to be empty by the time you get it.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

KWICKO

Sunday, January 23, 2011 6:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hardware:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

Any one of them can be a weapon. Or if you approach me with a gun and get close, I'll just use yours. ;)

Funniest thing I've seen posted on this board in a while. Not that I'm looking to mug anyone, but if you try to use my gun on me Kwicko you're going to have to hit me with it. It's going to be empty by the time you get it.

Now THAT is funny. As I said, anything can be a weapon. Even your empty gun, once you've wasted all your ammo.

This Space For Rent!

HARDWARE

Sunday, January 23, 2011 6:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Quote:
Originally posted by Hardware:

12 Americans are killed every day in crimes committed by illegal aliens. Does this count?
http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=39031

So what you are saying is that it would be better to be killed by an American citizen?

The linked article commented that in the same period less US servicemen were being killed in Iraq. Meaning the US was more dangerous to US citizens than Iraq.

Quote:

Ever been a victim of crime? I've been carjacked. Does that make me "paranoid" or once burned, twice shy?
Quote:

Somewhere where there is regaular carjacking would fit my definition of crime being terribly out of control. I can think of some parts of the world where I would seriously think of taking a weapon if I had to go there - Johanasburg is one of them - notorious for carjacking and murder and rape is kind of a hobby for some.

And in answer to your question, yes I have been a victim of crime. I've been burgarled (3 X)

But burglary occurs when you are out of the house or not actually confronting the burglar. Hardly the same sort of crime when someone who wants your wallet and car sticks a gun in your face, is it?

Kind of disingenuous of you to compare your burglaries with a violent crime where deadly force is being used, isn't it?

As far as regularity of crime is concerned, criminals don't make appointments. When they start, I will stop carrying.

Quote:

Actually, I'm a fat old man who has had his share of scuffling on the ground with someone, doesn't want any more holes poked in my precious anatomy and is impatient with idiots who want what does not belong to them.

You see that's where I lose sympathy a bit with some of the gun carrying stuff. If you are doing it to protect your life because you live in the war zone, fair enough. If you are doing it because someone might nick your wallet, hmmm. Another solution is not to carry anything valuable with you. I walk around with $50 cash max. Anybody wants to mug me, they can have my wallet. I'd rather hand it over and cancel my credit cards than get into a deadly gun fight.

You do realize that someone using a knife or gun to mug you is already committing assault with a deadly weapon, right? That is a felony in every jurisdiction I'm aware of. Using of deadly force in the commission of a crime makes defense from that crime acceptable use of deadly force.

I'm not carrying because someone might take my belongings. I'm carrying because someone might take my life. We Americans don't live in old blimey. We don't hand over our property just because someone demands it of us. We'd better see a credible threat that makes the property not worth keeping in light of that threat. In the presence of that threat I have options with a gun, without one I have no options but surrender and hope that they don't harm or kill me.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

HARDWARE

Sunday, January 23, 2011 4:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

Now THAT is funny. As I said, anything can be a weapon. Even your empty gun, once you've used all your ammo ventilating my K5 zones. Of course I won't have the power to hit you with it. I'll be too busy bleeding out.

FIFY

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

NIKI2

Sunday, January 23, 2011 8:00 PM

Amusing this is still going on; so it is with any “discussion” of guns OR climate change...

Frem,

Quote:
Allow me to note for the record that getting into a debate on statistics is no more useful here than it is concerning climate, and for the same reasons, one of which is *both* "sides" have blown any credibility with constant obfuscation, distortion and omissions bordering on outright lies.

That said, Niki, you are aware the folks handing out the statistics you posted consider a perp shot dead in the commission of a violent crime to be a "victim of gun violence"

Yes on the first; as to the second, anyone who dies by a gun is someone who died by a gun, to me. The number of people who shot someone who was robbing or attacking them is WAY outweighed by those who did the robbing/attacking, so it’s irrelevant, to me.

Yeah, Hardware, I saw that too

Quote:
The linked article commented that in the same period less US servicemen were being killed in Iraq. Meaning the US was more dangerous to US citizens than Iraq.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Sunday, January 23, 2011 11:42 PM

Quote:
I think, Magons - that the critical difference here is that you think you can trust your protectors, and given you live there and that is your choice, imma hafta give you benefit of the doubt in order to not be unreasonable...

You know I think you have nailed it, frem. But it's not that I have absolute in my government or police force. I know that at times there has been corruption in both - particularly the police force, it's just that I do believe I have more faith in democratic processes than many who visit these boards. You know I also see that democracy has its limits and draw backs, for example I don't think it's a particularly good system for making long term decisions that may be really useful or necessary for a country, simply because they might be unpalatable for an electorate.

But basically I feel that I am much more optimistic than many here and I guess that is based on my life experiences, as theirs are too. I'd rather have that faith in the system than live somewhere with an aggressive, mistrustful and heavily armed population who feel they need to be the ones to uphold the law. It may be that our two realities are very, very different. Maybe, or it just maybe that our perception is where the difference lies.

Quote:
Instead of "nerving yourself up" to do something you do not at all feel comfortable with, I reccommend you simply buddy up with a trustworthy yank who does carry - whether to carry or not is a personal choice, and up to the individual, one I respect, so long as my choice is respected and not infringed or called upon to BE infringed because of what I *might* do, cause that is an ugly, ugly road to travel.

Your country, your choice. I recognise that it would be hard to stuff that genie back in the bottle, even if that was something a lot of people wanted.

I'd not consider carrying if I visit, frem, nor would I feel the need to team up with anyone who does (unless I was visiting bear territory). I've travelled a reasonable amount in my life, some places have been safer than others and I've never armed myself with anything more than the can of hairspray I referred to earlier. I'd just take the normal precautions that I'd take anywhere, get information on places that aren't safe and pretty much avoid them, lock my room and car, and no carry heaps of cash around.

I'd be thinking pretty carefully about which cities I'd like to visit, as most large urban areas are pretty dull in my view, all being fairly similar. I'd have to go to NY, Savannah interests me, as does New Orleans, although I might cross that off the list for safety reasons, San Fransisco. Probably other than these, I'd prefer to see the natural attractions.

PIZMOBEACH

Sunday, January 23, 2011 11:55 PM

Magons - I second DT's observation that this forum should definitely NOT be used as a general representation of US attitudes for almost everything discussed here. It's extreme, and pretty flaky, and occasionally brilliant imho.

Has anyone else noticed? This is a general observation about conflict, especially political conflict: 99% of the time the 2 sides that end up leading almost any debate will be the most diametrically opposed? It's like a force of nature, like cells dividing. Ironically, because of it the possibility of any resolution that serves either side is zero.
Gun Haters vs Gun Lovers, Dems vs Reps, natural selection, zero resolution, built in Fail.
So, for instance, when some moderates want there to be a steeper hill to climb for gun ownership more akin to getting a driver's license, the debate usually gets derailed by: Yes, that may be reasonable but: "guns don't kill people, people do" and "people without guns can't kill people as easily."
Since the extremes end up driving these debates there's little chance for any intelligent discussion.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Monday, January 24, 2011 12:11 AM

geez, it was a pretty flaky premise for discussion anyway. So what if it evolves into something else.

BYTEMITE

Monday, January 24, 2011 12:26 AM

Magons, you don't mind if I ask you about that hairspray you mentioned, do you?

Did you list that because you saw it as a fairly innocuous item, meaning you don't feel the need to arm yourself or defend yourself at all?

Or did you list it because it has some useful but not commonly thought of properties that can make it useful for defense?

KWICKO

Monday, January 24, 2011 12:32 AM

Most likely the second one, Byte.

As I said, anything can be a weapon. Especially the human brain.

Hairspray + lighter = flamethrower.

Hairspray + eyes = poor woman's Mace.

This Space For Rent!

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Monday, January 24, 2011 12:34 AM

I carried it for a brief time for defence purposes. I was in my 20's, travelling alone through Europe, in cities that were unfamilar to me. It never made me feel particularly safer, as I said, my main worry was that I would pull it our and spray myself in the face.

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Monday, January 24, 2011 12:35 AM

Mace is illegal in most places outside of the US, though I did meet some American girls who carried it. You are correct about that being its use.

BYTEMITE

Monday, January 24, 2011 12:36 AM

Well, yes, I would think so too, I mentioned something similar in my first post in this thread. But I wanted to hear from her to be sure.

BYTEMITE

Monday, January 24, 2011 12:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Mace is illegal in most places outside of the US, though I did meet some American girls who carried it. You are correct about that being its use.

So, JUST the hairspray, or would you have coupled it with something else?

Because the main use of hairpsray-as-defense I can think of, well...

The thought that anyone could consider that option preferable to a gun, considering the damage to hypothetical attacker one is defending themselves from, the concept has me a little thrown. I can only assume you must be intending a very different use from the one I was envisioning.

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Monday, January 24, 2011 12:50 AM

Well I wasn't going to fix their hair for them. Hairspray into someones eyes would cause them pain and temporary blindness, much like mace. It simply gives you time to run away.

I never really believed that carrying it would do much good. If I had to be out after dark and alone in a city, I used to adopt an attitude ie not look fragile and vulnerable. I wore doc marten boots for years, wore big coats, swung an umbrella, walked as much like a man as I could. Never had too much trouble.

BYTEMITE

Monday, January 24, 2011 12:52 AM

Okay then. With that proposed use of hairspray, there are no inconsistencies.

You're good.

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Monday, January 24, 2011 1:18 AM

Good lord, what were you imagining?

Btw, it is not that I wouldn't do a would be attacker harm if I could. I'd be prepared to do extreme damage to someone if they tried to harm my son, for example. It's just that I have a belief that in a reasonably functionable society, people shouldn't have to carry firearms to protect themselves. I believe where I live fits 'reasonably functionable', but others here have indicated that where they live does not. I don't know any better, so I'll accept that.

FREMDFIRMA

Monday, January 24, 2011 3:02 AM

Oh yes, that I will give you, being one of the rare few less affected by CS/Oleoresin Capsicum/Mace, I can certainly assure you that a shot of hairspray to the eyes, or even glasses, is at best tremendously disconcerting and at worst wickedly painful - even the part that hits your glasses is a pain in the ass cause it sticks and fuzzes them up.

I dunno about brand-based effectiveness mind you, but I shall certainly vouch for Aqua-net, as an extremely angry ex decided to make her wrath known to me with such, and I've never forgotten it.

-F

WULFENSTAR

Monday, January 24, 2011 5:45 PM

"Btw, it is not that I wouldn't do a would be attacker harm if I could. I'd be prepared to do extreme damage to someone if they tried to harm my son, for example. It's just that I have a belief that in a reasonably functionable society, people shouldn't have to carry firearms to protect themselves. I believe where I live fits 'reasonably functionable', but others here have indicated that where they live does not. I don't know any better, so I'll accept that."

Do you even realize how insulting that is?

Our society functions just fine. In fact, its the model for most other countries.

Also, I consider a society that expects you to rely on the government (or its employees) for your immediate safety... dysfunctional.

Not to mention, a society that has given up its ability to overthrow its government, should it become tyrannical... sheep-like.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

KWICKO

Monday, January 24, 2011 6:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
"Btw, it is not that I wouldn't do a would be attacker harm if I could. I'd be prepared to do extreme damage to someone if they tried to harm my son, for example. It's just that I have a belief that in a reasonably functionable society, people shouldn't have to carry firearms to protect themselves. I believe where I live fits 'reasonably functionable', but others here have indicated that where they live does not. I don't know any better, so I'll accept that."

Do you even realize how insulting that is?

Less insulting than feeling that you have to be heavily strapped just to go outside, I'd wager. THAT is insulting, and a clear indication that your "model for most other countries" is an epic fail.

Quote:

Our society functions just fine. In fact, its the model for most other countries.

List them. Name all the countries that are modeled after ours, gun rights and all. I'll bet you a billion dollars it isn't even close to "most" of them.

Quote:

Also, I consider a society that expects you to rely on the government (or its employees) for your immediate safety... dysfunctional.

Heh... Do you have any idea how insulting THAT is, to someone living in another country? ;)

Quote:

Not to mention, a society that has given up its ability to overthrow its government, should it become tyrannical... sheep-like.

So you admit that you're one of the sheeple. After all, you HAVE NOT overthrown your government. You haven't even tried. Ergo, by your own admission, you've given up your "ability" to do so.

So either you DON'T believe that your government is in any way "tyrannical", or you don't believe in your "ability" to overthrow it.

Don't fret; you're in good company. After all, Americans haven't overthrown their government for over 200 years. One might get the impression that they've lost the ability to do so. Some of them tried, once, and failed miserably.

This Space For Rent!

WULFENSTAR

Monday, January 24, 2011 6:41 PM

"Less insulting than feeling that you have to be heavily strapped just to go outside, I'd wager."

I don't HAVE to be, I LIKE to be. Big difference. Some places in America you HAVE to be. Just like any other country.

"So you admit that you're one of the sheeple. After all, you HAVE NOT overthrown your government. You haven't even tried. Ergo, by your own admission, you've given up your "ability" to do so.

So either you DON'T believe that your government is in any way "tyrannical", or you don't believe in your "ability" to overthrow it.

Don't fret; you're in good company. After all, Americans haven't overthrown their government for over 200 years. One might get the impression that they've lost the ability to do so. Some of them tried, once, and failed miserably."

Good grief, this doesnt even make sense.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

BYTEMITE

Monday, January 24, 2011 7:35 PM

Quote:
Good grief, this doesnt even make sense.

The Civil War? Waco? Battle of Blair Mountain?

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Monday, January 24, 2011 10:00 PM

BTW I think I meant to say functional. Not sure if funcctionable is a word. :oops:

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
"Btw, it is not that I wouldn't do a would be attacker harm if I could. I'd be prepared to do extreme damage to someone if they tried to harm my son, for example. It's just that I have a belief that in a reasonably functionable society, people shouldn't have to carry firearms to protect themselves. I believe where I live fits 'reasonably functionable', but others here have indicated that where they live does not. I don't know any better, so I'll accept that."

Do you even realize how insulting that is?

You see now I am confused. Everytime I write something about not needing to carry, people on this board shout back at me (metaphorically speaking) about how dangerous it is 'out there' and how people get home invaded, car jacked, followed home from supermarkets, done over by corrupt police. They cite example after example of how bad it is and that is why you need to carry. And I think to myself 'that sounds really lousy, I can see why people might arm themselves'

So you are now saying that you don't carry arms to defend yourself, as there is no need?

Quote:
Not to mention, a society that has given up its ability to overthrow its government, should it become tyrannical... sheep-like.

Again, I am confused. I thought people were carrying weapons to defend themselves against crime. isn't that the case? You don't need to carry to have the ability to defend youself against tyranny.

You demonstrate very clearly the confused thinking around gun ownership, particularly those who demand the right to carry arms.

WULFENSTAR

Monday, January 24, 2011 10:08 PM

"You see now I am confused. Everytime I write something about not needing to carry, people on this board shout back at me (metaphorically speaking) about how dangerous it is 'out there' and how people get home invaded, car jacked, followed home from supermarkets, done over by corrupt police. They cite example after example of how bad it is and that is why you need to carry. And I think to myself 'that sounds really lousy, I can see why people might arm themselves'"

Its all about the what-ifs, choice, and the ideaology of the goodness of people.

It might not be a war zone where we (who carry) live, but its better to have it and not need it than to need it and not need it..

Plus, why deny us the choice and the ability to protect ourselves and our neighbors unless...

you think people are not good. And need to be controlled.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Monday, January 24, 2011 10:11 PM

I think people are basically good and therefore we don't need to arm ourselves in everyday life.

WULFENSTAR

Monday, January 24, 2011 10:27 PM

Thats fine. So do I. But I like to, anyways.

So you are free NOT to be armed, and I'm free to BE armed.

If you don't infringe on my rights, then there is really no issue.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Monday, January 24, 2011 11:36 PM

I don't want to infringe on your rights, I just don't want to live there.

KWICKO

Tuesday, January 25, 2011 3:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:

...its better to have it and not need it than to need it and not need it..

Wanna take another stab at that? Talk about not making sense!

Quote:

Plus, why deny us the choice and the ability to protect ourselves and our neighbors unless...

you think people are not good. And need to be controlled.

Why must you walk around strapped, unless...

... you think people are not good. And need to be controlled. By YOU.