South Ossetia: Defense against ethnic cleansing, or invasion? (Turns out, Georgia fired missiles first. it was self defense)

POSTED BY: SignyM
UPDATED: Sunday, August 23, 2026 15:28
VIEWED: 18520
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OUT2THEBLACK

Sunday, August 17, 2008 7:28 AM

Well , you are a mite predictable...Particularly with the more reactive bits...

Don't let it be your downfall...

Straightforward...Pretty much...

Logical ?

Well , you do get there , just sometimes , it seems a rocket-y ride...

Me ? I'm just a mean old man...

See You In the World...

PIRATENEWS

Sunday, August 17, 2008 8:52 AM

Bush Jr invading Russia from behind great wall of BS

VIDEO: Fox News TV: 12-year-old US citizen thanks Russia for saving her from the evil Georgians

http://www.russiatoday.com/news/news/29075

So the gay Fox talking head cuts her off so he can apply more eyeshadow and lipgloss. That little girl makes a better talking head than any ho on TV.

U.S. Launches Airlift to Aid Georgia
http://www.infowars.com/?p=3967

Too bad FEMA and the National Guard refused to save New Orleans after Bush and Hillary Clinton bombed the levees after hurricane Katrina. Three years later, 100,000 New Orleans residents are banned from their homes, thanks to ethnic clensing by the Jewish mafiya from Vegas.

BBC News video proves Georgia invaded first
http://www.infowars.com/?p=3994

Sky News (owned by Fox) uses footage of ruins of South Ossetian capital, Tskhinvali, says it is Georgia’s key town of Gori
http://www.prisonplanet.com/sky-news-uses-footage-of-ruins-of-south-os
setian-capital-tskhinvali-says-it-is-georgia%e2%80%99s-key-town-of-gori.html

World War 4 on 888: US & Israel attack Russia, Bush BS at Olympics
http://piratenews-tv.blogspot.com/2008/08/world-war-4-on-888-us-attack
s-russia.html

"Both war and peace are in the hands of Israeli Jews."
-Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili, U.S. attorney at law and employee of U.S. State Dept
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1011298.html

http://piratenews.org/fox-news-owned-by-communist-china.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendi_Deng
Hanoi Hannity: "I voted for the Sino-American Alliance."
"US ports owned by Commie China is good for me."
"Dead and disabled US soldiers are good for me."
"Outsourcing your job is very good for me."
"Sir Rupert dines with Hillary every week."
"Ron Paul does not exist in my 'Verse."
"Vote for Billary not McCain."

"As far as Chinese goes, I resented it."
-Adam Tudyk, The Making of Firefly

=

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Sunday, August 17, 2008 12:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
So, along those lines, Finn, I think you should read your quote. The one I found so insightful that I adopted it as my signature. Maybe some day you'll grasp the full implication of what you said.

I wrote the quote. I know I grasp it far better then you.

I also grasp Russian history far better then you, evidently.

In the thread where you got this signature, you were trying to turn this statement against me by saying that the Iraq war was an ideological war to force freedom onto the Iraqis, now you’re justifying an invasion by Russia because Georgians, according to you I guess, a bunch of fascists.

So evidently, it’s okay to invade a sovereign democratic nation because of a separatist conflict within that nation, by Russia who created the entire issue when they invaded Georgia the first time in 1923 and split Ossetia into North and South. But invading a brutal Islamic fascist regime known for belligerent policies against neighboring nations and murderous internal policies is somehow wrong.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Sunday, August 17, 2008 12:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by out2theblack:
Maybe I can get you to stop coming at me sideways ? Guarantee , you'll see something different...

No. Signym’s keen art of manipulation is really her only ace in the whole. She gets up in the morning thinking up ways of trapping people and calling them hypocrites. If you say something she agrees with she tries to manipulate the argument until she can get a statement that appears to be superficially contradictory. It’s some verbal chess game to her.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

SIGNYM

Sunday, August 17, 2008 2:29 PM

Quote:
In the thread where you got this signature, you were trying to turn this statement against me by saying that the Iraq war was an ideological war to force freedom onto the Iraqis, now you’re justifying an invasion by Russia because Georgians, according to you I guess, a bunch of fascists.

That's not what I said, nor what I meant.

Quote:
So evidently, it’s okay to invade a sovereign democratic nation because of a separatist conflict within that nation

Thats' not what I said, nor what I meant.

You've disputed me on every point I brought up so far, and lost: The length of the relationship between Ossetians and Russians, which goes back beyond 1923. The historical "nonviolent" response of Ossetians to Georgian dominance. The role and the problem of Russian passports. Who attacked who first, in this latest round of "nonviolence". The role of our neocons. I guess the only way you feel you can "win" this argument is to put words in my mouth?

So: The Ossetians fought Georgia in 1990-1992. Personally, my view would have been: Let 'em leave. But Georgia has ambitions to the land. So peacekeepers were installed to prevent further violence. but without a complete political resolution.

Likely because of promises of American support, Georgia attacked the peacekeers. (This wouldn't be the first time we prompted a revolt and then hung the rebels out to dry.) Their bad. Then Russia responded disproportionately, and stomped on Georgia. Their bad.

The question is: Now what? Do we go in with guns blazing? Do we whine and moan about the horrible Russians... meanwhile ringing their border with missiles? Do we amp up the situation and back Russia into a corner? Do we sleepwalk into letting the neocons prop up yet another corrupt regime?

My view is: Let the little guys, the Ossetians, gain their independence. I think its the right thing to do.

---------------------------------
Any idea, no matter how much you may agree with it, can be radicalized and employed as an excuse for violence. There is no such thing as a righteous or untouchable philosophy, and when you start thinking that there is, you have become an extremist.- Finn Mac Cumhal

SIGNYM

Sunday, August 17, 2008 2:48 PM

Quote:
No. Signym’s keen art of manipulation is really her only ace in the whole. She gets up in the morning thinking up ways of trapping people and calling them hypocrites. If you say something she agrees with she tries to manipulate the argument until she can get a statement that appears to be superficially contradictory. It’s some verbal chess game to her.

Oh and BTW Finn- You're a bonehead.

You can go on and on about the poor little fetuses and how we should "respect human life" and then justify hundreds of thousands of equally innocent deaths of "collateral damage". You talk a good line about "freedom" but you support every invasion that we ever did and every tyrant we ever backed. You view terrorism with horror but think "shock and awe"... and its concomitant death... is okay. You talk about eloquently... indeed, insightfully.... about the dangers of righteousness, about being so wrapped up in an idea that it is used to excuse vile action... without recognizing that you're the epitome of exactly what you fear. Because you're so wrapped up in your ideas you can't see what you're doing. You support the biggest military in the world... a military that has over 800 installations around the globe... because you're AFRAID.

These aren't "superficial" contradictions. They represent a chasm that completely bifurcates your brain. When was the last time you looked in a mirror? When was the last time one side of your brain talked to the other?

So let me try, one more time, and maybe by sheer repetition it will sink in: If do DO BAD you're a "bad guy" not a "good guy".

---------------------------------
Any idea, no matter how much you may agree with it, can be radicalized and employed as an excuse for violence. There is no such thing as a righteous or untouchable philosophy, and when you start thinking that there is, you have become an extremist.- Finn Mac Cumhal

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Sunday, August 17, 2008 2:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
You can go on and on about the poor little fetuses and how we should "respect human life" and then justify hundreds of thousands of equally innocent deaths of "collateral damage". You talk a good line about "freedom" but you support every invasion that we ever did and every tyrant we ever backed. You view terrorism with horror but think "shock and awe"... and its concomitant death... is okay. You even talk about eloquently... indeed, insightfully.. about the dangers of righteousness, about being so wrapped up in an idea that it is used to excuse vile action... without recognizing that you're the epitome of exactly what you fear. You support the biggest military in the world.

These are all your little superficial contradictions or in some cases fabricated contradictions that you’ve amassed over the years to convince yourself of the righteousness of her own views. I doubt you’ve even once actually tried to understand a different point of view, at least not mine. Instead you take views that differ from her own, manipulate them until you can find some superficial contradiction within them, or in some cases manufacture a contradiction, and then dismiss it as inconsistent with logic, but in the end, all you’re really doing is dismissing a point of view, because it’s not yours.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

SIGNYM

Sunday, August 17, 2008 3:04 PM

Quote:
You can go on and on about the poor little fetuses and how we should "respect human life" and then justify hundreds of thousands of equally innocent deaths of "collateral damage". You talk a good line about "freedom" but you support every invasion that we ever did and every tyrant we ever backed. You view terrorism with horror but think "shock and awe"... and its concomitant death... is okay. You even talk about eloquently... indeed, insightfully.. about the dangers of righteousness, about being so wrapped up in an idea that it is used to excuse vile action... without recognizing that you're the epitome of exactly what you fear. You support the biggest military in the world.-Signy

These are all your little superficial contradictions or in some cases fabricated contradictions that you’ve amassed over the years to convince yourself of the righteousness of her own views. I doubt you’ve even once actually tried to understand a different point of view, at least not mine. Instead you take views that differ from her own, manipulate them until you can find some superficial contradiction within them, or in some cases manufacture a contradiction, and then dismiss it as inconsistent with logic, but in the end, all you’re really doing is dismissing a point of view, because it’s not yours.-Finn

Finn, I have tried to understand your POV. The problem is you don't have ONE, you have about 16 and they all contradict each other. You couldn't explain what you mean if you life depended on it because you feel but you don't think.

But OOC Finn, when was the last time you tried to understand MY point of view? I make one point, and I make it all the time. Should be easy.

---------------------------------
Any idea, no matter how much you may agree with it, can be radicalized and employed as an excuse for violence. There is no such thing as a righteous or untouchable philosophy, and when you start thinking that there is, you have become an extremist.- Finn Mac Cumhal

CHRISISALL

Sunday, August 17, 2008 3:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:

You can go on and on about the poor little fetuses and how we should "respect human life" and then justify hundreds of thousands of equally innocent deaths of "collateral damage". You talk a good line about "freedom" but you support every invasion that we ever did and every tyrant we ever backed. You view terrorism with horror but think "shock and awe"... and its concomitant death... is okay. You talk about eloquently... indeed, insightfully.... about the dangers of righteousness, about being so wrapped up in an idea that it is used to excuse vile action... without recognizing that you're the epitome of exactly what you fear. Because you're so wrapped up in your ideas you can't see what you're doing. You support the biggest military in the world... a military that has over 800 installations around the globe... because you're AFRAID.

Wow.
That about says it all, I think.

Awedmyownselfisall

CHRISISALL

Sunday, August 17, 2008 3:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
in the end, all you’re really doing is dismissing a point of view, because it’s not yours.

Call the kettle black much, Finn?

What's up? I've not seen you so...emotional about stuff before, you used to battle stuff out, but now you've retreated to a position where you dismiss us by saying we're just dismissing you.
I disagree with Signy that you don't have a POV, but I agree that within your POV there seem to be contradictory elements. But, label us Fringe left Bush-hating tin-foil-types & you make the problem go away- you need not THINK anymore.

Is that your objective here now?

?isall

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