South Ossetia: Defense against ethnic cleansing, or invasion? (Turns out, Georgia fired missiles first. it was self defense)
POSTED BY: SignyM
UPDATED: Sunday, August 23, 2026 15:28
VIEWED: 18520
PAGE 8 of 28
Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
omnipotent McCain.
lolisall
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Out2Black... you've got a lot of suppositions. Here's one: If the S Ossetians want a passport, why not choose a Georgian one?
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Any idea, no matter how much you may agree with it, can be radicalized and employed as an excuse for violence. There is no such thing as a righteous or untouchable philosophy, and when you start thinking that there is, you have become an extremist.- Finn Mac Cumhal
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Out2Black... you've got a lot of suppositions. Here's one: If the S Ossetians want a passport, why not choose a Georgian one?
No supposition at all...Once again , you unearth many facts , and yet manage to ignore nearly all of 'em...
Why not to choose a Georgian one ?
A lot of reasons , probably all of which would escape you..." Tactics !, woman..."
One is , if you have a Russian passport , it gives a lot more sea and air ports from which to make a hasty exit...
And , if one has to stay in Russia proper , it would give quite a number more potential hiding places than if one had to
hole up in little ol' Georgia...
Now , run along , and resume your playtime...
Just be sure to do your 'homework' FIRST !http://www.slate.com/id/2191588/entry/2191589
" For now, though, Russia seems satisfied to exercise de facto control over South Ossetia. It has given Russian passports to South Ossetians—who can't travel on their South Ossetian passports—and now 96 percent of South Ossetians are Russian citizens. "
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This is part and parcel to what I’m saying. I’m sure most people in S. Ossetia are pretty much aware of Russia’s history of 19th century foreign policy and pretty much aware of Russia’s aspiration of reassert itself over Georgia and pretty much aware of Georgia’s inability to prevent any military incursion by Russia and pretty much aware of how little the rest of the world is likely to do about it if they do. If I lived in S. Ossetia, you can bet I’d have a Russian Passport, and I sure as hell wouldn't be caught dead with Georgian one, regardless of my ethnic or political affiliations.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
This is part and parcel to what I’m saying. I’m sure most people in S. Ossetia are pretty much aware of Russia’s history of 19th century foreign policy and pretty much aware of Russia’s aspiration of reassert itself over Georgia and pretty much aware of Georgia’s inability to prevent any military incursion by Russia and pretty much aware of how little the rest of the world is likely to do about it if they do...
Snip...EDIT(O2tB):
...If I lived in S. Ossetia, you can bet I’d have a Russian Passport, and I sure as hell wouldn't be caught dead with Georgian one, regardless of my ethnic or political affiliations.
Yeah , you and I would be hoistin' tankards , celebratin' our slippin' about like naughty men , while SignyM would be a raggedy refugee , wonderin'
" What just happened ? ".
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O2B, did you read your own cite?
Quote:This relationship predates the Soviet Union (and of course modern-day Russia) by many decades. It is not a recent creation. But apparently neither you, nor Finn, nor Geezer can understand the truth when it is presented in plain English from a variety of Western sources including Slate and the BBC.
Ossetians say they have nothing in common with Georgia and that South Ossetia is an artificial creation thrown together by ethnic Georgian Bolsheviks who wanted to separate and weaken the Ossetian nation. (A much larger portion of the Ossetian people lives in North Ossetia, a part of Russia just across the Caucasus mountains from South Ossetia.) They say that throughout the Soviet era, Georgia populated South Ossetia with ethnic Georgians and restricted the use of the Ossetian language....People here blame the United States for providing military support to Georgia and emboldening Tbilisi to act against South Ossetia, and there is no ambivalence about the relationship with Moscow. Russia and Ossetia have been military allies since at least the 19th century. Moscow has traditionally relied on its fellow Christian Ossetians against the many Muslim nations in the Caucasus as well as against the independent-minded Georgians.
When I heard about the Hungarian experience from my hubby, I was shocked and a bit skeptical. It never occurred to me that Hungarians might actually want Soviet troops in their nation. But when his mom's relatives came to visit and made a number of spontaneous, disparaging comments about the USA and capitalism I realized that outlook wasn't unique or peculiar. Some of my FIL's friends, OTOH, had portraits of Hitler in their houses.
Listening closely to my dad, who grew up in Poland. made me realize that for all of his wonderful qualities he was deeply anti-Semitic, and like many Poles he was rather glad that Hitler had "cleaned out" Poland. (The direct quote from him was "Hitler cleaned that out well enough") So you see, the truth is often complicated. It doesn't neatly divide itself into the categories that we find convenient to think about: that Russia and communism is universally hated and bad, and that the USA and its allies are universally loved and righteous. Many Poles, who we see as victimized from all sides, were themselves willing accomplices to the Warsaw Ghetto and the concentration camps. Some Hungarians, who we think of as victims of Russian oppression, were such brutal fascists that they embarrassed the Nazis.
So, along those lines, Finn, I think you should read your quote. The one I found so insightful that I adopted it as my signature. Maybe some day you'll grasp the full implication of what you said.
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Any idea, no matter how much you may agree with it, can be radicalized and employed as an excuse for violence. There is no such thing as a righteous or untouchable philosophy, and when you start thinking that there is, you have become an extremist.- Finn Mac Cumhal
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Absolutely !
Nothing in the cite was news to me...It's just that your question was about the relative advantages of having a Russian passport versus a useless S. Ossetian one...Or , a Georgian one...
Not taking sides in this conflict...All of this stuff has happened before , one way or the 'tuther...
Seems to me we're in complete agreement now...
Kinda nice , ain't it ?
Is this the first time on common ground for us ?
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Seems we've reached it before.
I guess I was reacting to Finn, who seems to think that the Russians are just dastardly bastards for providing passports.
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Any idea, no matter how much you may agree with it, can be radicalized and employed as an excuse for violence. There is no such thing as a righteous or untouchable philosophy, and when you start thinking that there is, you have become an extremist.- Finn Mac Cumhal
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Seems we've reached it before.
I guess I was reacting to Finn, who seems to think that the Russians are just dastardly bastards for providing passports.
Thanks for sayin'...
Funny you mention that 'reactivity' thing...I ever tell you that you think like a girl ?
You take a different approach...You're working this deal all crabbed !
Maybe I can get you to stop coming at me sideways ? Guarantee , you'll see something different...
I like smart women...
Gotta go...'Nighty-night...
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Quote:And I always thought I was pretty straightforward, logical, and predictable....
Maybe I can get you to stop coming at me sideways ?
You tell me when I'm coming at you sideways. Maybe I'll figure out what you mean by that.
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Any idea, no matter how much you may agree with it, can be radicalized and employed as an excuse for violence. There is no such thing as a righteous or untouchable philosophy, and when you start thinking that there is, you have become an extremist.- Finn Mac Cumhal
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