South Ossetia: Defense against ethnic cleansing, or invasion? (Turns out, Georgia fired missiles first. it was self defense)
POSTED BY: SignyM
UPDATED: Sunday, August 23, 2026 15:28
VIEWED: 18520
PAGE 5 of 28
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
The Hungarian uprising was in part fomented by the VOA's constant barrage of propaganda. The people who took part in it were not only students, but also con-men, ex-nobility, and leftover fascists from WWI. Hubby recalls several "moles" in the uprising's side who were hung from lamposts and killed by razor-blade cuts. (The old fascists really knew how to make people suffer.) Many people were glad to see the Russians roll in.
Longing for the good old days of the Soviet Union, are we?
Russia, in whatever guise, has had imperial longings since forever. I expect that they'll use whatever pretenses they can manufacture to try and intimidate their former colonies like Georgia, Ukraine, Poland, etc. into returning to the fold.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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I agree with most of Finn's analysis, but this
Quote:
If Georgia does fall under Russian control, either by regime change or through tight political control, then Russia will control all the Pipelines into Europe and will be in a better place to dictate terms to Europe and NATO.
says that, in the end, it really is about the oil - or at least the pipelines and control. He who controls the spice controls the universe...
Where's the Quisatz Haderach when you need him?
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia
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I don't know if there really is a quizinart hatrack or not, but I do know that little sis, aka Alicia Witt, turned out to be quite exceptional.
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Quote:ROTF, and this is NOT about oil....how exactly???
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
If Georgia does fall under Russian control, either by regime change or through tight political control, then Russia will control all the Pipelines into Europe and will be in a better place to dictate terms to Europe and NATO.
isall
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Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:
I don't know if there really is a quizinart hatrack or not, but I do know that little sis, aka Alicia Witt, turned out to be quite exceptional.
You can say that again!
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Where's the Quisatz Haderach when you need him?
They'd just scream 'Obamanation!"
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Quote:In the end, it’s about advancing Russian influence. Oil just happens to be a big factor in the economy. The desire to view this in terms of oil is a simplistic view of a far more complex agenda. The real picture here is Russian influence.
Originally posted by Kwicko:
I agree with most of Finn's analysis, but thisQuote:says that, in the end, it really is about the oil - or at least the pipelines and control. He who controls the spice controls the universe...
If Georgia does fall under Russian control, either by regime change or through tight political control, then Russia will control all the Pipelines into Europe and will be in a better place to dictate terms to Europe and NATO.
Where's the Quisatz Haderach when you need him?
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Finn, I know that oil is "just a part" of the whole picture - but it happens to be the MAJOR part, the OPERATIVE part. Russia is seeking to increase its sphere of influence... over WHAT? By what methods? By controlling what? OIL!
The Russians had said point-blank that if we insisted on pushing ahead with our missile-defense system in Eastern Europe - pushed up to the Russian border to somehow protect against IRANIAN nuclear missile attack - that they would be forced to respond militarily. If they simply wanted a military strike that would show the West that they were displeased, they could have hit some of the proposed installations in Eastern Europe. They did not. They chose to strike at a choke point for oil transshipment, a strategy sure to wreak the most economic havoc on us, while doing the least real damage to the facilities involved.
So, given the choices of what the Russians could do, and where they could do it, they found it most useful to try to disrupt the flow of oil, and to take control of that flow. Oil isn't the ONLY thing this conflict is about, but it's the main thing. Other factors just happened to lay out in favor of Russia on the invasion.
They ARE seeking to increase their influence, no doubt about it. Russia is trying to put pressure on the U.S. to abandon its missile-defense system in Europe and pressure Eastern Europe into more closely following Russia's desires regarding trade and dealings with the West. They're also trying to remind Georgia, Ukraine, and other former Soviet satellite states where they came from, and not to forget it.
But the main tool they're using to achieve all those ends is OIL, because that's the currency of the industrial world. If you have control to the oil, or the ability to interrupt its flow, you have the attention of the entire region, and they're all ears.
Mike
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Quote:The Russian’s did not make a military strike in Eastern Europe because they are not trying to impose influence over Europe, and they probably know that's ultimately not a realistic goal. They struck Georgia because it was out of the way, and there’s greater chance that the attack will succeed without Western involvement. To say this is all about oil is missing the whole point of the invasion. Control over the pipelines in the Caucus' will increase their leverage some, but not to the extent that you are making it out to be. Your inflating the issue of oil. Oil is the scapegoat for anything any nation does. The real issue here, however, is Russian control over what it perceives to be its rightful borders, which include now sovereign nations which were once a part of the Soviet Union.
Originally posted by Kwicko:
The Russians had said point-blank that if we insisted on pushing ahead with our missile-defense system in Eastern Europe - pushed up to the Russian border to somehow protect against IRANIAN nuclear missile attack - that they would be forced to respond militarily. If they simply wanted a military strike that would show the West that they were displeased, they could have hit some of the proposed installations in Eastern Europe. They did not. They chose to strike at a choke point for oil transshipment, a strategy sure to wreak the most economic havoc on us, while doing the least real damage to the facilities involved.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:In fact it's such a cliche' that any nation can now attack another for oil possession or control and call "Cliche'" when cited for it as a cover.
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Oil is the scapegoat for anything any nation does.
Convenient.
isall
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