South Ossetia: Defense against ethnic cleansing, or invasion? (Turns out, Georgia fired missiles first. it was self defense)
POSTED BY: SignyM
UPDATED: Sunday, August 23, 2026 15:28
VIEWED: 18520
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been watching the events unfold on tv and its real scary whats happening as georgia wants to be a nato country, this means that we the uk and the U.S will be obliged to help georgia if russia continue to attack ,this could be the start of a world war 3 or i may be over exaggerating not sure .all the best miike
October 12th, 1985. Dog carcass in alley this morning, tire tread on burst stomach. This city is afraid of me. I have seen its true face. The streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over, all the vermin will drown.
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Quote:In the context of this thread, I'd say the former implies some sort of political consensus among the populace that they don't want to belong to country A anymore, they'd rather either be an independent country or part of a neighbouring country B. If it's the former, they should go for it. If it's the latter, then as long as country B is alright with it, they should go for it. Illegal immigration, on the other hand, is a bunch of individuals entering a country without that country's consent.
Originally posted by SignyM:
I'm surprised that nobody said If you think people should be able to be part of any group they want, why are you so bothered by "illegal" immigration?" And indeed, I haven't been able to reconcile that gap.
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This isn't my signature. I have to type this every time I make a post.
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So, not content with 'liberating' South Ossetia, Russia is now continuing to attack Georgia, which has an army of 26,000: with 82 tanks, 137 APCs, 7 aircraft, and 95 pieces of heavy artillery. Russia's got an army of 641,000: with 6717 tanks, 6388 APCs, 1206 aircraft, and 7550 pieces of heavy artillery.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7552908.stm
The population of Georgia is about one third the population of Moscow, or 3% of the population of Russia.
Looks like Russia can change its political system, but can't quite get rid of the empire thing.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Just wait 'til they get to Serenity Valley... I'm thinkin' the Georgians might do the impossible, and that will make them mighty.
Or they could get wiped out to the last man.
What I'm wondering is, where does this leave the U.S.? We've been supporting Georgia's bid to join NATO, but we've also been trying to play nice with the Russkies. So what do WE do now? Take a side? Sit it out? Depend on the [GASP!] UN?!
Beats the shit outta me...
M
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Just wait 'til they get to Serenity Valley... I'm thinkin' the Georgians might do the impossible, and that will make them mighty.
Or they could get wiped out to the last man.
What I'm wondering is, where does this leave the U.S.? We've been supporting Georgia's bid to join NATO, but we've also been trying to play nice with the Russkies. So what do WE do now? Take a side? Sit it out? Depend on the [GASP!] UN?!
Beats the shit outta me...
M
For me this boils down on 2 factors
1Russians are still commie A-holes
Russia is flexing its muscles, they have been politically butting heads with Georgia for some time. Georgia with its small army is no match for the large numbers of Russian troops. every time the USA tries to install missile defense against Iran the paranoid Russians think we are trying to check them.
USA could try going into Black sea and try policing the area but the Army and Marine Corps are very stretched from two current wars, troops need their hospital bills taken care of and US forces need to be re-built to their former strength. This is Russia's backyard, a run of Subs, Backfires with supersonic cruise missiles and MIG-29s would unleash more power than even our best AEGIS cruisers can take care of.
This would make the most violent US losses in Iraq look tame, yes we might come off better but its not wise to back a Nuclear armed Russia and former Superpower into the corner. President Medvedev called for "liberation" of the people but my guess is the real guy pulling the strings is Vladimir Putin a KGB man who sees paranoia and conspiracies everywhere.
The second factor I think it boils down to is
2USA mismanagement of their Georgia relationship like their Iraq disaster these past years. Remember we used to support Iraq at one time against Iran etc
Similar to Iraq muddle, Georgia is a mess of a different bunch of cultures and ethnic peoples and we never considered this.
The former USSR and Georgian nationalists might have kept a lid on culture clashes but the possible only solution is a three-state system like the proposed idea of breaking Iraq into 3 : Kurd North, Sunni, Shite etc.
In Georgia you got Abkhaz peoples and Ossetians etc who all want their independence but both Russia and Georgia lay claim over them. I suspect one of the big loser will be the people's crying for independence no matter who wins.
President Bush backed Georgia against Russia some months ago, but he should have made his position clearer.
The Georgia leader Saakashvili is a bit of a loon and took the Bush statement as a guarantee the USA will jump into a fight no matter what. Bush should have made his statement clear and said something like "This doesn't mean you can kick a sleeping Bear in the Balls and expect us to support you"
Frankly Georgia was a bit f**king stupid to pick a fight with the Bear, they are outclassed and out gunned (PS Georgians are out of position and mostly stationed in Iraq helping the Bush war on terror) . They and their little army of a few thousand will have a fight with 30,000 Russian tanks and over 1500 3rd generation fighter aircraft
Ossetia and the Abkhazia people want independence but this will never be internationally recognized because of BS politics on both sides.
the USA has its own troubles right now and ain't keen on getting dragged into another f**cking war.
Once Georgia/Russia pipelines get hit, I expect Oil to skyrocket and the US dollar to take some nasty hits on the financial market.
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I have some suspicions.
Look at the geographical positioning of Georgia, and potential supply routes for their support of middle east allies - and tell me it does not occur to you that this particular set of events might have been "helped along" by certain someones intelligence people ?
There's little if any evidence of that, but just sayin it's awfully damned convenient.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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It has already been pointed out by the State Department to the Georgian leadership that they are NOT a full member of NATO - at least not yet - so we are under no OFFICIAL obligation to help them out. And yeah, we don't really want to go poking the bear in his own cage.
Gonna be an interesting few weeks, I think. They've been saying that this could be a worst-case scenario, with a desperate and nuclear-armed Georgia facing off against insurmountable odds and a nuclear-armed Russia. Hold on to your hats; it could be a bumpy ride!
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Hold on to your hats; it could be a bumpy ride!
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more conspiracies
http://jonnyfrag.wordpress.com/2008/08/11/pattern-of-exercises/
Quote:
Pattern of Exercises
Despite efforts to downplay it in the US media, there is a very dramatic war that has broken out between Georgia and Russia. Reports are coming out now (via the Russian news media) that perhaps American soldiers and/or Mercs (Blackwater) are on the ground ‘advising’, some ‘advising’ to their deaths. Well that sounds like it might be true or just as easily Russian propaganda, on the face of it anyway.
If you go back just a little bit you will see that last month American forces participated in an exercise with Georgia practicing the scenario that is currently unfolding. It was important enough to warrant a visit from Condi Rice to Georgia even (wonder if she got on the plane thinking she was going to the southern state…)
What of it, you might ask. If you look at recent history, there have been two other times widely known that an event of import was practiced just before or DURING the actual event. The two events I am speaking of are Sep 11, 2001 and the 7/7 bombings in London. Both of these events were being practiced (planned months ahead of time) when they actually started. In the case of the 7/7 bombings, an interview was shown with one of the coordinators of the exercise saying ‘We were practicing this at the exact locations so when it happened for real, we had to shift into real world mode right away.’
Of course I am sure this is ALL coincidence, right?
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Huh. Well, lotsa stuff I didn't know about came up in this thread. Needs some research.
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Any idea, no matter how much you may agree with it, can be radicalized and employed as an excuse for violence. There is no such thing as a righteous or untouchable philosophy, and when you start thinking that there is, you have become an extremist.- Finn Mac Cumhal
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