It's not the deeds, it's the hate.
POSTED BY: Fremdfirma
UPDATED: Tuesday, April 8, 2008 18:47
VIEWED: 10808
PAGE 5 of 13
Quote:
Originally posted by Fletch2:
At age 7 I had a space program in my back yard, complete with a launch tower and mission control. If I did that as an adult I'd either be a lunatic or Richard Branson. Chances are that these kids had as much chance of killing the teacher as I had of following Alan Sheppard.
A voice of sanity! I'm playing along with rue and Signym and making an ideological mountain out of this molehill, but you're right. Kids never even consider that they might be taken seriously. The fact that they have been, in this case, says more about the maturity of the adults involved than it does about the malevolence of the children.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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You are "socialised" by your family not your peers, the values you have you get from the folks that raise you... or at least that's the theory.
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It's not ever really possible to know how "serious" kids were about something becaise I don't think even the kids know! But the fact is kids DO kill people, and it's not just the "child soldiers" of Africa.
Quote:I lay THAT one at Frem's feet!
I'm playing along with rue and Signym and making an ideological mountain out of this molehill
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Let's party like it's 1929.
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SergeantX
On the one hand you seem to say it's how the kids respond to a bad system - it's their nature to be little monsters when left unsupervised in a group. (Your Lord of the Flies reference.) In that case you seem to be blaming 'the system' for putting kids in that situation. But when a similar system (say in Canada, Norway, Sweden or Denmark) produces better results you say it's not about the school system per se, it's about empire. In other words, it's about global class struggle, which you've already dismissed out of hand as a cause.
I would like to discuss this with you but I can't figure out what you mean.
Can you explain yourself in a way that is a little less self-contradictory ?
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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
You seem to be dismissing Frem's post that "they" hate us with a white-hot passion. Are you?
Heh.. well, yeah I guess. I'm usually happy to tag-team with Frem, but in this case I'm not really seeing it. I'd like to see what he has to say on the matter, though, so I'll wait till he has a chance to comment further. Not really sure exactly what he meant just yet.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
SergeantX
On the one hand you seem to say it's how the kids respond to a bad system - it's their nature to be little monsters when left unsupervised in a group. (Your Lord of the Flies reference.) In that case you seem to be blaming 'the system' for putting kids in that situation. But when a similar system (say in Canada, Norway, Sweden or Denmark) produces better results you say it's not about the school system per se, it's about empire. In other words, it's about global class struggle, which you've already dismissed out of hand as a cause.
I would like to discuss this with you but I can't figure out what you mean.
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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
Well, they're two different issues. The unsupervised socialization is what makes this sort of thing possible, and the US's glorification of violence is what makes it more likely to happen here.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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WOW. All i can say is WOW.
That and "Are you 
ing kidding me.?"
I'm more disturbed by the reaction on some of these posts then the story itself.
As far as Frem's origial post. Agent got it right immediately "So some third-graders decide to hurt their teacher and all children "hate us"?
Have things gone seriously wrong somewhere between parents, teachers and children in this case? Yes, obviously. But you can't take one case like this and blow it up to encompass every child, parent and teacher everywhere."
In all the explinations and justifications given for why this happened no one seems to take into account that:
"The purported target teaches third-grade students with learning disabilities, including attention deficit disorder, delayed development and hyperactivity, friends and parents said."
Except for chris who states that these kids "should not be in the schools in the first place." I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt and assume that this was either sarcastic or a typo. To say that these kids shouldn't be in school??? What, just because they're classified? They all deserve to learn at whatever level they can learn at which is why we have classes and school specificaly for them. Don't take this as falme, it's a statement. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt.
And same to you Hero. I'm gonna assume the majority of your response was sarcastic in nature; but blaming bill clinton? Really?
Finally, I don't believe in blaming media (video games, movies, TV, etc.) by themselves. These things have ratings for a reason and it's up to the parents to monitor what a child is playing/hearing/seeing but at the same time use these things as an opportunity to teach our children what is and is not appropriate. You kid saw something horrible or graphic on TV? Take the time to explain to them what the saw in language they'll understand and teach them difference between what is right and wrong and WHY.
The kids seem to have needs that have to be addressed (let us not froget that these children are "students with learning disabilities, including attention deficit disorder, delayed development and hyperactivity") and the parents possibly need to regulate their media intake a little better.
I could go on about this but I've ranted enough.
Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies.
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Quote:I said "Bad teachers" shouldn't be, to be a little more precise.
Originally posted by NobleBrowncoat:
Except for chris who states that these kids "should not be in the schools in the first place."
The mis-read Chrisisall
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"unsupervised socialization"
Wasn't this whole thing about a teacher ? Then how can you claim that it's unsupervised when clearly - it is ? (BTW, if you remember your book, Lord of the Flies happened when there really was no supervising structure, clearly unlike the situation here.)
"US's glorification of violence"
And aren't you part of that ? Don't like the man ? Get a gun ? Don't like the rules ? Get a gun. Don't like society ? Get a gun.
So rather than go down the trail discussing obviously bad analogies - or claiming to play along with arguments you don't really mean - how about addressing, from your perspective, the unique causes of these kinds of uniquely US occurrences ?
***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:I said "Bad teachers" shouldn't be, to be a little more precise.
Originally posted by NobleBrowncoat:
Except for chris who states that these kids "should not be in the schools in the first place."
The mis-read Chrisisall
Sorry Chris, was a little fired up and read your statement like this: "Teachers that basically hate their jobs. And [these] kids should not be in the schools in the first place." I appologize for misusing your post. My point still stands though, the children have special needs and that seems to be ignored.
Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies.
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