Brexit vote Thursday June 23

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Tuesday, July 11, 2023 17:26
VIEWED: 10465
PAGE 1 of 1

SIGNYM

Thursday, June 23, 2016 10:10 PM

Happening today.

What bothers me about it is that there will be no exit polls. That way, there is no check on whether the vote was manipulated or not. No matter how the vote turns out, people should be outraged about how it was conducted.

THGRRI

Thursday, June 23, 2016 10:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Happening today.

What bothers me about it is that there will be no exit polls. That way, there is no check on whether the vote was manipulated or not. No matter how the vote turns out, people should be outraged about how it was conducted.

Typical Russian trolling. England bad

THGRRI

Friday, June 24, 2016 1:05 AM

Hey SIG, where's your outrage now? Tell us SIG, what bothers you about this comrade troll.

The Constitutionality of Vladimir Putin's Third Term

Almost as soon as the election results declaring Vladimir Putin's election were certified, Russia's nascent opposition immediately challenged the results as illegitimate. The League of Voters, for instance, argued that the massive irregularities, use of administrative resources, and abuse of law discredited "the institutions of the Russian presidency, the Russian electoral system, and the entire Russian state." The Putin regime has responded in part by stressing the importance of legality and constitutionality. First, it has reiterated its now-familiar refrain: If you have problems with the elections you should pursue these claims through the constitutionally-guaranteed judicial process. More importantly, on the day after the disputed presidential election, outgoing President Medvedev introduced a bill outlining the formation of a Constitutional Assembly that could redraft the Russian constitution. This bill - which Mr. Medvedev had promised to deliver after a February 20 meeting with the new, non-systemic opposition - will determine the rules for forming a Constitutional Assembly.

http://www.brookings.edu/research/opinions/2012/03/09-constitutionalit
y-putin-partlett

KPO

Friday, June 24, 2016 4:14 AM

Quote:
What bothers me about it is that there will be no exit polls.

And no little green men with machine guns supervising the vote, like in truly democratic Russian referenda.

#WesternDemocracyIsASham
#VladimirPutinForever

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Friday, June 24, 2016 5:31 AM

Brexit early returns favor Remain by 52%-48%. Pretty tight.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/polls-close-historic-eu-referendum-210824856
.html

They worry about exit poll influence in a nation spanning a single time zone, right?
While America's contiguous States span 4 time zones, something like 6 with HI and AK.

THGRRI

Friday, June 24, 2016 5:42 AM

Ladies and gentlemen above you will see a post by another of our posters that post without thinking. One time zone or not, we now live in a world with 24 hour a day news. You could be home eating your lunch before heading off to vote and hear exit polls giving you information which could sway your vote.

Will someone please explain it to the above poster. I'd rather not.

SIGNYM

Friday, June 24, 2016 5:18 PM

Quote:
Truth is, A U.K. law prohibits news organizations from reporting how people voted before polls close.

Wow, what an idiot. That law exists here too. But that doesn't keep news organizations from HOLDING exit polls here. Independent exit polls are used worldwide to verify the honesty of vote counting.

Quote:
I'm guessing they don't want early poll numbers to affect late voters. Of course, that makes perfect sense. And it's not like exit polls can't be muddled with. So outrage over nothing.

And it's not like vote counting can't be muddle with. Overall, exit polls are as, or more, reliable than vote counting. Now, I wouldn't be outraged over the lack of exit polls if they hadn't revealed SYSTEMATIC VOTE COUNTING FRAUD IN THE USA ALREADY.

What? Never heard of it?

Quote:
The first indication that something was gravely amiss on November 2nd, 2004, was the inexplicable discrepancies between exit polls and actual vote counts. Polls in thirty states weren't just off the mark -- they deviated to an extent that cannot be accounted for by their margin of error. In all but four states, the discrepancy favored President Bush.

Over the past decades, exit polling has evolved into an exact science. Indeed, among pollsters and statisticians, such surveys are thought to be the most reliable. Unlike pre-election polls, in which voters are asked to predict their own behavior at some point in the future, exit polls ask voters leaving the voting booth to report an action they just executed. The results are exquisitely accurate: Exit polls in Germany, for example, have never missed the mark by more than three-tenths of one percent.

"Exit polls are almost never wrong," Dick Morris, a political consultant who has worked for both Republicans and Democrats, noted after the 2004 vote. Such surveys are "so reliable," he added, "that they are used as guides to the relative honesty of elections in Third World countries."

In 2003, vote tampering revealed by exit polling in the Republic of Georgia forced Eduard Shevardnadze to step down. And in November 2004, exit polling in the Ukraine -- paid for by the Bush administration -- exposed election fraud that denied Viktor Yushchenko the presidency.

But that same month, when exit polls revealed disturbing disparities in the U.S. election, the six media organizations that had commissioned the survey treated its very existence as an embarrassment. Instead of treating the discrepancies as a story meriting investigation, the networks scrubbed the offending results from their Web sites and substituted them with ''corrected'' numbers that had been weighted, retroactively, to match the official vote count. Rather than finding fault with the election results, the mainstream media preferred to dismiss the polls as flawed.

In scientific parlance, that's called "fudging your data".

Quote:
But as the evening progressed, official tallies began to show implausible disparities -- as much as 9.5 percent -- with the exit polls. In ten of the eleven battleground states, the tallied margins departed from what the polls had predicted. According to Steven F. Freeman, a visiting scholar at the University of Pennsylvania who specializes in research methodology, the odds against all three of those shifts occurring in concert are one in 660,000.

"As much as we can say in sound science that something is impossible," he says, "it is impossible that the discrepancies between predicted and actual vote count in the three critical battleground states of the 2004 election could have been due to chance or random error."

He and several other high-powered statisticians came out and said outright that the only explanation that can't be ruled out is FRAUD.

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0601-34.htm

Again, you probably don't recall because your collective heads were stuck up

SIGNYM

Friday, June 24, 2016 5:21 PM

It's All Over As "Leave" Wins Brexit Referendum: Markets Everywhere Are Crashing

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-23/nailbiter-continues-here-are-
first-official-results-and-they-give-bremain-some-hope

Brexit: David Cameron to quit after UK votes to leave EU

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36615028

--------------
I'll tell you what I DON'T like about Trump: I think that he has never confronted either the international banking cartel, nor the CIA-State Dept multi-headed hydra, nor the military-industrial complex. The last person to confront them was JFK (BTW, ALL immigration was illegal under JFK) and look what happened to him.

SIGNYM

Friday, June 24, 2016 5:34 PM

What this reminds me of is the Greek vote on austerity. The polls were saying it was a close vote, and most Greeks assumed that the pro-EU party would win, but in the end, 60% voted against austerity and against the EU.

What happened after THAT was a different story! Tsipras (Greek PM) was hoping that people would vote for staying in. In other words, although he campaigned on an anti-austerity platform he was hoping to lose the vote. In the end, he ignored the will of the people. The Finance Minister- Yanis Veroufakis - resigned, and there have been riots ever since (never covered by the press).

--------

I had a feeling the vote would turn out this way, but I didn't want to say anything. The reason why is because NPR - ever the purveyor of Democratic National Committee POV- started to CAUTIOUSLY cover the Brexit story two days ago (which they had been avoiding) and- even more telling- started to discuss a Brexit.

All of the opinions lining up behind Bremain were (1) banks (2) American businessmen manufacturing in Britain and exporting to the EU (3) British businessmen exporting to the EU and (4) EU citizens living in Britain. The nail in coffin - not only for what was said but also for the fact that it was broadcast - was an interview with a famous British author (whose name I forget) when cautiously asked " What do you tell people who want to remain in the EU?" responded "I haven't met anyone who does!". TPTB did everything they could to win the vote. I wouldn't discard the concept of outright vote fraud either. An exit poll might have resulted in much higher Brexit percentages. But the vote is done. Now we see what TPTB do about it.

--------------
I'll tell you what I DON'T like about Trump: I think that he has never confronted either the international banking cartel, nor the CIA-State Dept multi-headed hydra, nor the military-industrial complex. The last person to confront them was JFK (BTW, ALL immigration was illegal under JFK) and look what happened to him.

JAYNEZTOWN

Friday, June 24, 2016 5:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
It's All Over As "Leave" Wins Brexit Referendum: Markets Everywhere Are Crashing

some vids

the BBC

Tony Blair on Brexit - BBC News

more

papers

SIGNYM

Friday, June 24, 2016 5:50 PM

Quote:

I learned you still can't see the forest for the trees no matter how you think you know or how much you type.

Let's unpack your bullshit:

No, let's unpack YOUR bullshit

Quote:
Why did you whine about "no exit polls" and then say there were?

I didn't.

Quote:
There really is a law in the UK banning them - fact.

No. there. is. not. There are laws banning the results of exit polls from being BROADCAST while people are still voting. That's a common point between the USA and the UK. Or, are you confused about the difference between conducting a poll versus broadcasting the results?

Quote:
Of course that doesn't keep people from doing them - they just call them opinion polls instead.

No, an "opinion poll" is conducted BEFORE an election. An exit poll is conducted near the polling place, with people who have just voted.

Quote:
"And it's not like vote counting can't be muddle with. Overall, exit polls are as, or more, reliable than vote counting."

Cites - muddle is muddle. NUMBERS DO LIE. Numbers do whatever someone with resources and desire wants them to do. NUMBERS OBEY.

But number gathered by independent organizations who have no particular dog in the fight more often come out accurately than numbers counted by those with a vested interest.

Quote:
You even showed why exit polls can't be trusted in your post:
"Rather than finding fault with the election results, the mainstream media preferred to dismiss the polls as flawed."

No, I showed why the mainstream media can't be trusted. Apparently you missed an important point in the article.

Statisticians ... people who work with sampling statistics and error bands and who know what kind of error to expect from exit polls ... went over the Mitosfky exit poll IN THE USA and determined that the ONLY explanation that couldn't be ruled out was fraud. Between academics who study such things, and the mainstream media, I trust the academics more.

Quote:
MY POINT EXACTLY - thank you, you silly twit.

That may have been YOUR point- and it was a stupid one!- but it wasn't mine, and it wasn't the author's.

I followed this very closely at the time - both the FLA recount and the 2004 exit poll anomaly, there is a lot more information that I could bring to the discussion and some original articles, but your eyes glaze over after 140 characters, and I'm not sure that your mind is functional anyway, so I won't bother.

Honestly, I can't believe that someone who is as ignorant of simple facts- like the difference between an opinion poll and an exit poll- would have th balls to opine so freely and so abysmally on the internet. My god, that anyone lets you near a computer! Your phone is smarter than you are!

--------------
I'll tell you what I DON'T like about Trump: I think that he has never confronted either the international banking cartel, nor the CIA-State Dept multi-headed hydra, nor the military-industrial complex. The last person to confront them was JFK (BTW, ALL immigration was illegal under JFK) and look what happened to him.

SIGNYM

Friday, June 24, 2016 6:03 PM

One of the funny observations to make is the EU, UK, and USA stock market and pound sterling futures.

All of a sudden, they take a nose-dive? You mean, they actually believed their own bullshit opinion polls????

That makes as much sense as believing bullshit unemployment numbers! Or bullshit GDP numbers! No wonder they're so screwed up, they believe their own propaganda!

I'm laughing hysterically at the carnage. I'm surprised you can't hear me all the way over there.

--------------
I'll tell you what I DON'T like about Trump: I think that he has never confronted either the international banking cartel, nor the CIA-State Dept multi-headed hydra, nor the military-industrial complex. The last person to confront them was JFK (BTW, ALL immigration was illegal under JFK) and look what happened to him.

SIGNYM

Friday, June 24, 2016 7:00 PM

I guess we get to see HOW well-capitalized the banks really are!

--------------
I'll tell you what I DON'T like about Trump: I think that he has never confronted either the international banking cartel, nor the CIA-State Dept multi-headed hydra, nor the military-industrial complex. The last person to confront them was JFK (BTW, ALL immigration was illegal under JFK) and look what happened to him.

KPO

Friday, June 24, 2016 8:57 PM

A sad day. Young voters voted overwhelmingly to remain, but have had their future decided for them by older voters:

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I'm laughing hysterically at the carnage. I'm surprised you can't hear me all the way over there.

Sounds about right.

SIGNYM

Friday, June 24, 2016 8:59 PM

Quote:
Because they [academic statisticians] could never be bought? What Russian fairy village did you grow up in?

No, because they shared the numbers and explained their process and their findings, and anyone was welcome to re-investigate their work. As opposed to a secret ballot whose counting procedures can't always be validated.

Quote:
Only shows how easily you can be fooled. "They called it an Opinion poll so it must be. Carry on!" -GSTRING

They called it an opinion poll because the results came out BEFORE the vote. My god, GSTRING, get a grip on reality!

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I'm laughing hysterically at the carnage. I'm surprised you can't hear me all the way over there. -SIGNY

Comrade SPUTNYK laughing at other's pain. The reveal is complete, the mask comes off and the grotesque figure smiles a near toothless smile. (maybe one silver tooth)

Like YOU don't laugh at "other's" pain? You don't laugh at some Syrians' pain? Or Russians'? Or Chinese? The difference between you and me is who we laugh at. I laugh at the pain of hedge fund managers, banksters, financiers, and the 0.01% "others" who have nothing to do with us, or the rest of the people on this board, or in fact most of the people in the world.

And if you're invested in the stock market, then you're an idiot. To use a crude phrase, what do stocks have bugger-all to do with the economy? It's a gambling casino and a way for the wealthy to make even more money, that's all. Don't play gambling games that you can't afford to lose.

--------------
I'll tell you what I DON'T like about Trump: I think that he has never confronted either the international banking cartel, nor the CIA-State Dept multi-headed hydra, nor the military-industrial complex. The last person to confront them was JFK (BTW, ALL immigration was illegal under JFK) and look what happened to him.

THGRRI

Friday, June 24, 2016 9:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by G:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I'm laughing hysterically at the carnage. I'm surprised you can't hear me all the way over there.

Comrade SPUTNYK laughing at other's pain. The reveal is complete, the mask comes off and the grotesque figure smiles a near toothless smile. (maybe one silver tooth)

That would be fang G. One fang

SIGNYM

Friday, June 24, 2016 9:17 PM

I see you're all reduced to name-calling. As usual, you have nothing interesting to say. I'm outta here, for now. Have fun name-calling and picking your noses.

--------------
I'll tell you what I DON'T like about Trump: I think that he has never confronted either the international banking cartel, nor the CIA-State Dept multi-headed hydra, nor the military-industrial complex. The last person to confront them was JFK (BTW, ALL immigration was illegal under JFK) and look what happened to him.

KPO

Friday, June 24, 2016 9:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Quote:
Originally posted by G:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I'm laughing hysterically at the carnage. I'm surprised you can't hear me all the way over there.

Comrade SPUTNYK laughing at other's pain. The reveal is complete, the mask comes off and the grotesque figure smiles a near toothless smile. (maybe one silver tooth)

That would be fang G. One fang

Lol. Thanks guys, I needed a laugh today.

THGRRI

Friday, June 24, 2016 11:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Colour me confused but are the Brits staying in the EU or leaving? Your graphs and posts make no sense to me right now.

They voted to leave Brenda.

JAYNEZTOWN

Friday, June 24, 2016 11:41 PM

Britain as a whole voted out, Scotland and Northern Ireland voted to stay in but the majority vote means they leave the EU

Gibraltar also was able to vote in the Referendum. Not everyone could vote in the referendum – those in the Crown dependencies (Jersey, Guernsey and the Isle of Man) are ineligible for a start. Access to the Single Market appeals particularly to Gibraltar, Bermuda and the Falklands. Gibraltar overwhelmingly backs Remain because it frets about being left at the mercy of Spain. Many do not relish the thought of having to set up new treaties with the EU – a body that is “increasingly sceptical” of overseas territories, according to the Caribbean Council.

THGRRI

Saturday, June 25, 2016 12:23 AM

If you look at the growth rate in England it is at 7 plus percent since the crash. The rest of Europe excluding Germany is 0.3 % or so. If you look at the unemployment rate England is at around 5. something present. From there it goes to like 17% in Spain. England is paying in much more to Europe than it is getting back.

Also the English are looking at the future. Many refuse to realize that with global warming Europe is going to be very vulnerable to immigrants migrating to Europe in numbers that dwarf what they are dealing with now.

A major consequence to England could be Scotland voting to leave England so they may stay in the EU. Big misstate because the EU is a failed experiment. Watch Ireland as well. These directly effect the United Kingdom. Other European countries will follow England's lead. This does not affect NATO.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Saturday, June 25, 2016 1:45 AM

So far the Dow has only dropped about 600 points.
Many are making it sound like mayhem.

SECOND

Saturday, June 25, 2016 5:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
What this reminds me of is the Greek vote on austerity. The polls were saying it was a close vote, and most Greeks assumed that the pro-EU party would win, but in the end, 60% voted against austerity and against the EU.

What happened after THAT was a different story!

There is only one way to change the EU – vote to leave the EU then negotiate a better deal with it.

A vote to depart could be used as a stick to negotiate not a full departure from the EU, but a better deal for the UK. “There is only one way to get the change we need, and that is to vote to go, because all EU history shows that they only really listen to a population when it says ‘No,'” Boris Johnson wrote. “It is time to seek a new relationship, in which we manage to extricate ourselves from most of the supranational elements.”
www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2016/03/16/boris-johnson-exclusive-there-i
s-only-one-way-to-get-the-change/

The measure Britons just voted for was an advisory not a mandatory referendum, meaning that it is not legally binding on the government. The prime minister is not required by the outcome to trigger Article 50. And, despite what senior figures in the EU and its other states might say, there is no way for them to force the UK to invoke Article 50.
http://jackofkent.com/2016/06/five-legal-points-about-the-leave-victor
y/

There is some wiggle room for a new government to try to find a compromise arrangement that would satisfy a larger share of the population than just the slim majority of voters who demanded separation.

Only about 160 of the 650 MPs elected last year want Britain to leave the EU. The overwhelming majority of Westminster MPs believes that leaving would be a mistake. Many believe it would be a very grave mistake. Not a few believe it would be calamitous. This experiment in direct democracy is hurtling towards a tradition of representative democracy like some giant asteroid towards a moon.
www.thetimes.co.uk/_TP_/article/pity-voters-deceived-by-the-pied-piper
s-of-brexit-vz3hpfm9x

SIGNYM

Saturday, June 25, 2016 2:51 PM

My understanding is that EU officials are now telling UK officials "Leave, and make it snappy"

I don't think that the majority of UK voters would tolerate being ignored by their government, and at the same time it seems that EU bureaucrats don't want to dicker with the UK either. So any move to repair the EU and ignore the vote looks likely to end in tears.

I think people have been bamboozled into feeling that being "international" is cool and it feels like humanitarianism ... or solidarity ... or something ... but the reality is that there are no INTERNATIONAL democratic institutions to reflect their will. Right now, the only effect that people have - if any- is on their NATIONAL government, and if they give that up in favor of international authorities like the EU, they've simply given up any influence they might have had. Internationalism is a con job, really - just one more step into getting people to give up what influence they have over their government and putting themselves in thrall to something that doesn't listen to them at all. Look at the Greeks- they have been 100% unable to remove themselves from the yoke of the troika which is bleeding their economy dry. And it was designed that way.

--------------
I'll tell you what I DON'T like about Trump: I think that he has never confronted either the international banking cartel, nor the CIA-State Dept multi-headed hydra, nor the military-industrial complex. The last person to confront them was JFK (BTW, ALL immigration was illegal under JFK) and look what happened to him.

SIGNYM

Saturday, June 25, 2016 3:56 PM

I thought these were funny ... Brexit. Grexit. Departugal. Italeave. Czechout. Oustria. Finish. Slovakout. Byegium.

also World’s 400 Richest People Lose $127 Billion on Brexit: Chart

Quote:
The world’s 400 richest people lost $127.4 billion Friday as global equity markets reeled from the news that British voters elected to leave the European Union. The billionaires lost 3.2 percent of their total net worth, bringing the combined sum to $3.9 trillion, according to the Bloomberg Billionaires Index. The biggest decline belonged to Europe’s richest person, Amancio Ortega, who lost more than $6 billion, while nine others dropped more than $1 billion, including Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos and Gerald Cavendish Grosvenor, the wealthiest person in the U.K.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-24/world-s-400-richest-
people-lose-127-billion-on-brexit-chart

I weep for them, I really .... Nah, who am I kidding? I'm still laughing hysterically.

But not to worry! The rich always have their interests taken care of! I'm sure the central banks will yak up more money to keep stock prices high.

--------------
I'll tell you what I DON'T like about Trump: I think that he has never confronted either the international banking cartel, nor the CIA-State Dept multi-headed hydra, nor the military-industrial complex. The last person to confront them was JFK (BTW, ALL immigration was illegal under JFK) and look what happened to him.

SECOND

Saturday, June 25, 2016 4:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

there are no INTERNATIONAL democratic institutions to reflect their will. Right now, the only effect that people have - if any- is on their NATIONAL government . . . Look at the Greeks- they have been 100% unable to remove themselves from the yoke of the troika which is bleeding their economy dry. And it was designed that way.

There is a Greek story that directly applies to Brexit:

On 5 July 2015, the bailout referendum took place. Finance Minister Varoufakis had campaigned vigorously in favour of the 'No' vote, (No to the troika) against the united support for the 'Yes' of Greece's media and of Europe's leadership. To make his position clear, he declared on television that he would resign as Finance Minister if Greeks voted 'Yes'. The outcome of the vote was a resounding 61.5% vote in favour of 'No'. Varoufakis went on television, soon after the result was announced, to celebrate the Greeks' outstanding courage and to declare that the government was determined to honour this new mandate for a sensible, honourable agreement with its creditors. However, a few hours later, late into the night, Varoufakis resigned. In his resignation statement the following morning he said: that "other European participants" had expressed a wish for his absence. Later he explained that he decided to resign during a meeting with the Prime Minister, on the night of the referendum, during which he discovered that the Prime Minister, instead of being energised by the "No" vote, declared to Varoufakis his decision to acquiesce to the troika's terms. Unwilling to sign such a "surrender" document, Varoufakis chose to resign.

His explanation, published later by Harry Lambert, New Statesman, 13 July 2015, was this: "I’m not going to betray my own view, that I honed back in 2010, that this country must stop extending and pretending, we must stop taking on new loans pretending that we’ve solved the problem, when we haven’t; when we have made our debt even less sustainable on condition of further austerity that even further shrinks the economy; and shifts the burden further onto the have nots, creating a humanitarian crisis. It’s something I’m not going to accept, I’m not going to be party to."

On Friday 14 August, the government (without Varoufakis) pushed successfully through Parliament the 3rd Greek bailout agreement - the one that Varoufakis had described as a surrender document. The bailout Bill received 222 votes to 64 (as the conservative opposition voted in favour).

Varoufakis said that the UK should remain in the EU, but also campaign to democratise it: "My message is simple yet rich: those of us who disdain the democratic deficit in Brussels, those of us who detest the authoritarianism of a technocracy which is incompetent and contemptuous of democracy, those of us who are most critical of Europe have a moral duty to stay in Europe, fight for it, and democratise it." On 9 February 2016, Varoufakis launched the Democracy in Europe Movement 2025 (DiEM25) at the Volksbühne in Berlin.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanis_Varoufakis

SECOND

Saturday, June 25, 2016 7:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
World’s 400 Richest People Lose $127 Billion on Brexit: Chart

Quote:
The world’s 400 richest people lost $127.4 billion Friday as global equity markets reeled from the news that British voters elected to leave the European Union.

I love the satirical headline:
Queen Elizabeth Screaming At Stockbroker To Dump Everything
www.theonion.com/article/queen-elizabeth-screaming-stockbroker-dump-ev
eryth-53157

also:
Americans Confused By System Of Government In Which Leader Would Resign After Making Terrible Decision
www.theonion.com/article/americans-confused-system-government-which-le
ader--53156

SIGNYM

Saturday, June 25, 2016 9:03 PM

Yes, the "Bremain" contingent ... of which there are many ... could always try to undo the vote. It worked in Greece, despite a resounding percentage in the opposite direction, did it not?

BTW, I listened to a couple of Varoufakis speeches about what was going on in the background. There were many interesting points in it, Varoufakis actually knew that the EC would shut the Greek banks and he had a plan for that (banking thru the Greek IRS system instead) and he also had a secret weapon in his negotiations (haircutting the bonds held by Germany, long story). But he was absolutely savaged by the EU press, and in the end he was stabbed in the back - as were many Greeks- by their Prime Minister Tsipras.

Among other things he said that the European Parliament (which is elected) is only a confirming body, they can only approve of laws crafted by the European Commission. So, as he said, the democratic body can't make decisions, and the deciding body isn't democratic.

Both the EC and the European Central Bank were designed to be run by "technocrats" .... the ECB specifically when crafting its monetary policy is mostly immune to the cries and sighs of the various Finance Ministers of the EU, altho the ECB DOES bend to the German Finance Minister. As Varoufakis said "They treat Finance Ministers like vermin". That's how the ECB was able to impose a regime of "austerity" on its member states, despite the needs of the individual member states for a more realistic policy, which created a significant downturn in the EU economy (which I predicted at the time).

All this as specific examples why "internationalism" is a con job. "Internationalism", in all of its aspects so far, is non-democratic.

Other examples are the "free trade" deals (NAFTA, CAFTA, TTIP, TPP), which remove authority from elected national governments on economic, copyright, environmental, labor, and other policies, and grant those decisions to a council of international trade lawyers who represent only international businesses. Just like the EU, it puts those decisions out of the hands of the people and into the hands of the unelected/ non-representative.

People who desire "internationalism" out of some vague feeling of humanitarianism have completely abdicated their ability to influence policy. Which will be decided, not by some equally vague international humanitarian feeling, but by the banks and international corporations.

Thanks for the articles from The Onion, they were great!
---------------
I'll tell you what I DON'T like about Trump: I think that he has never confronted either the international banking cartel, nor the CIA-State Dept multi-headed hydra, nor the military-industrial complex. The last person to confront them was JFK (BTW, ALL immigration was illegal under JFK) and look what happened to him.

SIGNYM

Saturday, June 25, 2016 9:26 PM

Curiously, Brexit may also spell the end of the UK, as Scotland and N Ireland agitate for the independence they would need to snuggle back into the bosom of the EU.

All of that will take a while ... at least a year to gain independence, and another few years while the EU mulls over these new accessions.

In the meantime, the next vote to watch is THIS SUNDAY, as the Unidos Podemos Party may gain a solid boost from the Brexit vote, and overturn Rajoy's right-center caretaker government. Unidos Podemos is an anti-austerity political party. Let's hope they don't have any Tsipras-styled traitors in their midst.

--------------
I'll tell you what I DON'T like about Trump: I think that he has never confronted either the international banking cartel, nor the CIA-State Dept multi-headed hydra, nor the military-industrial complex. The last person to confront them was JFK (BTW, ALL immigration was illegal under JFK) and look what happened to him.

SECOND

Sunday, June 26, 2016 3:48 AM

A petition calling for another referendum on whether Britain should stay in the European Union has now received at least 2.5 million signatures — a level that means it must now be debated by British politicians. It was apparently so popular that the British Parliament's website, where the petition was hosted, briefly crashed.

Quote:
We the undersigned call upon HM Government to implement a rule that if the remain or leave vote is less than 60% based a turnout less than 75% there should be another referendum.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

The drive for a new referendum is coming from those who had hoped to "remain" in the E.U. Thursday's referendum was fairly close — the "leave" vote won with just 51.9 percent. And so the petition for a new referendum suggests there should be a rule that in referendums with less than 75 percent turnout (Thursday's vote was 72.2 percent), there should be another referendum unless a decision is reached by more than 60 percent of those voting.
www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/06/25/more-than-1-6-mil
lion-brits-signed-a-petition-for-another-referendum-they-shouldnt-hold-their-breath/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

THGRRI

Sunday, June 26, 2016 5:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by G:
Quote:
Originally posted by second:
A petition calling for another referendum on whether Britain should stay in the European Union has now received at least 2.5 million signatures — a level that means it must now be debated by British politicians. It was apparently so popular that the British Parliament's website, where the petition was hosted, briefly crashed.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

< incredulous > an online petition ??????? < / oy >

Done!

Incredulous, troll much SIG?

SIGNYM

Sunday, June 26, 2016 12:14 PM

Quote:
A petition calling for another referendum on whether Britain should stay in the European Union has now received at least 2.5 million signatures — a level that means it must now be debated by British politicians. It was apparently so popular that the British Parliament's website, where the petition was hosted, briefly crashed.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215
< incredulous > an online petition ??????? < / oy >
Done!

GSTRING

Incredulous, troll much SIG?-THIRDSTOOGE

How stupid do you get? Do you think "I" filled out that petition??? Sheesh, you embarrass even your friends!

--------------
I'll tell you what I DON'T like about Trump: I think that he has never confronted either the international banking cartel, nor the CIA-State Dept multi-headed hydra, nor the military-industrial complex. The last person to confront them was JFK (BTW, ALL immigration was illegal under JFK) and look what happened to him.

SIGNYM

Sunday, June 26, 2016 1:33 PM

One of the things that baffles me mightily is the acceptance of "nationalism" as being an out-of-date and dangerous concept which should be consigned to the dustbin of history. In its place, a squishy sort of "internationalism" is advocated. Internationalism is egalitarian, it's multicultural and just so cool. Anyone who isn't "multicultural" is obsolete.

What the advocates of "multiculturalism" don't seem to realize is that there are no international democratic institutions. All of the international structures, like the EU, "free trade" agreements, and even the UN, are out of the reach of most people. We can't vote on any of the policies that are decided on by international committees, technocrats, and arbitrators. If people were to look with any sort of clarity on the role of the Eurocrats in bringing unending unemployment to people of Southern Europe and how their economies are being sacrificed to support the Euro (currency), and how "free trade" agreements will ensure that decisions about the environment, labor, food safety etc. will be made by trade lawyers in secret courts only on the basis of their effect on international trade, "internationalism" stops looking so good.

By handing over the ability to take control of their own national policies, people have given up on being able to control ANY policy. And they've given it up and gotten nothing in return except a warm, fuzzy, meaningless feeling.

What is so wrong with wanting to be able to set national policies, to control (or at least manage) the production and flow of goods, the value of your national currency, and the number of people immigrating to your country? Who would rather have policy set by some faceless, distant bureaucrat five borders away? Don't we have enough problems of non-responsive government already, without making it a lot worse?

Curiously, judging by some of the people on this board, their warm fuzzy feeling of world solidarity ends the moment they encounter someone who TRULY thinks differently. One of the things that is beginning to horrify Germans, for example, is their encounter with large a large group of people who have entirely different views about what's right and wrong, what's important and unimportant, and who should decide. So even the self-congratulatory feeling of being a "person of the world" comes to a screeching halt when some of the other people of the world are TOO different, and those differences go beyond tasty food and interesting music. So much for multiculturalism!

--------------
I'll tell you what I DON'T like about Trump: I think that he has never confronted either the international banking cartel, nor the CIA-State Dept multi-headed hydra, nor the military-industrial complex. The last person to confront them was JFK (BTW, ALL immigration was illegal under JFK) and look what happened to him.

KPO

Sunday, June 26, 2016 6:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by G:
Quote:
Originally posted by second:
A petition calling for another referendum on whether Britain should stay in the European Union has now received at least 2.5 million signatures — a level that means it must now be debated by British politicians. It was apparently so popular that the British Parliament's website, where the petition was hosted, briefly crashed.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

< incredulous > an online petition ??????? < / oy >

Done!

Brilliant G

SECOND

Sunday, June 26, 2016 7:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:

Brilliant G

I see that a second EU Referendum petition has twenty time more signatures than the petition making it illegal for a company to require women to wear high heels at work.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions?state=awaiting_debate

". . . many people signing it appear to be doing so from outside the UK. . . . Any signatures found to be fraudulent would be removed." - Second EU referendum petition investigated for fraud
www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36634407

If two percent of the voters had flipped from "leave" to "stay", the Brexit vote would have failed 49.9% versus 50.1%. To make a momentous decision based on only two percent is very odd. The US Constitution requires two-thirds majority vote in both the House of Representatives and the Senate and ratified by the legislatures of at least three-fourths of the states. For example, the 26th amendment needed those large majorities to lower the minimum voting age to eighteen.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-sixth_Amendment_to_the_United_Sta
tes_Constitution

SIGNYM

Sunday, June 26, 2016 8:19 PM

Quote:
If two percent of the voters had flipped from "leave" to "stay", the Brexit vote would have failed 49.9% versus 50.1%. To make a momentous decision based on only two percent is very odd. The US Constitution requires two-thirds majority vote in both the House of Representatives and the Senate and ratified by the legislatures of at least three-fourths of the states. For example, the 26th amendment required those large majorities to lower the minimum voting age to eighteen.

I wonder, SECOND, if the split wasn't even higher than counted. Any time a nation refuses to run exit polls, (or for that matter denies international observation), I start to wonder what they're up to. Here's an idea: Maybe TPTB did manipulate the vote. Maybe the real vote to Brexit was a lot higher than the count showed. Maybe it was more like a 10% split.

There was one thing I heard - more than once- about how people felt ahead of time, and it was this: Once outside of London, it was difficult to find ANYONE voting for Bremain. Apparently, Brexit sentiment was very strong, but the media coverage was so relentlessly negative that the Brexiteers felt isolated. But then, they came out higher numbers than expected. Maybe FAR higher numbers than expected. This is like the Greek vote, which turned out very, very different than what the polling anticipated.

I can't help thinking that someone ran the polling numbers, and told the top financialists ....Don't worry, we got this covered. . Which is why so much money poured into stocks and sterling. Only they didn't have it covered, at least not enough.

It's too bad nobody ran an actual exit poll, because now we'll never know how honest the vote counting really was. Maybe it was squeaky clean. But maybe it wasn't.

Just as an aside, there are British businessmen who have an interest in Brexit. It's the same split as in the USA Presidential election: The difference between NATIONAL businesses and INTERNATIONAL ones. In our case, Hillary would represent Bremain, and Trump would represent Brexit.

--------------
I'll tell you what I DON'T like about Trump: I think that he has never confronted either the international banking cartel, nor the CIA-State Dept multi-headed hydra, nor the military-industrial complex. The last person to confront them was JFK (BTW, ALL immigration was illegal under JFK) and look what happened to him.

SIGNYM

Sunday, June 26, 2016 8:22 PM

Quote:
Brilliant G - KRAPO

And may I say that THUGR fell for it?

Quote:
I see that a second EU Referendum petition has twenty time more signatures than the petition making it illegal for a company to require women to wear high heels at work.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions?state=awaiting_debate
". . . many people signing it appear to be doing so from outside the UK. . . . Any signatures found to be fraudulent would be removed." - Second EU referendum petition investigated for fraud
www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36634407
SECOND

Of course they'll be. In fact, I wonder if too many fraudulent signatures will invalidate the entire online poll. Yep, brilliant indeed!

But I see that the usual suspects, who have nothing of interest to say but who nonetheless believe in their own incomparable (ahem!) intelligence, have not responded at all to the thought that being a "person of the world" might be a fundamentally flawed identity.

Quote:
What the advocates of "multiculturalism" don't seem to realize is that there are no international democratic institutions. All of the international structures, like the EU, "free trade" agreements, and even the UN, are out of the reach of most people. We can't vote on any of the policies that are decided on by international committees, technocrats, and arbitrators. If people were to look with any sort of clarity on the role of the Eurocrats in bringing unending unemployment to people of Southern Europe and how their economies are being sacrificed to support the Euro (currency), and how "free trade" agreements will ensure that decisions about the environment, labor, food safety etc. will be made by trade lawyers in secret courts only on the basis of their effect on international trade, "internationalism" stops looking so good.

By handing over the ability to take control of their own national policies, people have given up on being able to control ANY policy. And they've given it up and gotten nothing in return except a warm, fuzzy, meaningless feeling.

What is so wrong with wanting to be able to set national policies, to control (or at least manage) the production and flow of goods, the value of your national currency, and the number of people immigrating to your country? Who would rather have policy set by some faceless, distant bureaucrat five borders away? Don't we have enough problems of non-responsive government already, without making it a lot worse?

Curiously, judging by some of the people on this board, their warm fuzzy feeling of world solidarity ends the moment they encounter someone who TRULY thinks differently. One of the things that is beginning to horrify Germans, for example, is their encounter with large a large group of people who have entirely different views about what's right and wrong, what's important and unimportant, and who should decide. So even the self-congratulatory feeling of being a "person of the world" comes to a screeching halt when some of the other people of the world are TOO different, and those differences go beyond tasty food and interesting music. So much for multiculturalism!

At the same time that these mental midgets insist that they are persons of the world who value other cultures, they think nothing of bombing the snot out whole nations!

May I suggest a national identity that will be far more progressive than the one they currently follow? It has a few key elements:

FIRST, DO NO HARM.
As a nation of the world, one is not entitled to destroy other nations EXCEPT in direct self-defense. Bringing god to the heathens or Bringing democracy to the tyrannies or R2P at the point of a gun just never seems to work well. Historically, all it's managed to do is kill a shitload of people and install even worse tyrannies than before.

PLAY FAIR: TRADE FAIR
Don't economically exploit your fellow-nations. Now, generally, th

SIGNYM

Sunday, June 26, 2016 9:05 PM

And finally. Assuming that TPTB don't manage to find a way to delay or thwart Brexit entirely ....

Listening to the interview of a well-connected man, he said one thing that pointed to the future of Brexit. The reaction of the Eurocrats was that there should be two characteristics of Brexit:

1) It should be PAINFUL.
Contagion is to be avoided at all costs. No other nation should even think to leave the EU, with Britain hanging from a gibbet as an example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibbeting Apparently, the EU doesn't think much of democracy, and is willing to thwart it whether it happens in Greece or in the UK or anywhere else. Or, as Steimeir (German FM said)

Quote:
"We won't let anyone [including the people, apparently] take Europe from us".

I can't imagine what punishment they'll cook up, but I'm sure it's a doozy! And who is "we" and "us" anyway?

2) It should be QUICK.
EU ministers believe that waiting until Cameron steps down and the Tories find a new PM -in October- is far too much uncertainty for the markets. Well, that right there pretty much tells you who they represent.

Again, assuming that TPTB don't find a way to block Brexit, I don't expect it to be easy. The closest example I can think of is Iceland, which went on a huge borrowing binge pre-2008. Man, it was party-time nationwide! But once their three major banks crashed in an orgy of self-dealing and corruption, the Icelanders did what no one else has done: They let their banks fold, nationalized them, and threw the bankers in jail. And this was AFTER the Parliament had voted to cave in! Iceland, like Britain, had a huge advantage over many other EU member states: It still had its own currency.

But while Icelanders did the right thing, they paid a price: Britain declared Iceland to be a "terrorist state" (for refusing to back British deposits in the Icelandic bank branches in Britain) and froze the Landsbanki assets in Britain, and British allies declared a freeze on all Icelandic assets everywhere. Iceland, in the throes of a financial crisis and a liquidity crisis, and with its financial lifelines cut, had to go begging for a creative loan from China. And although Iceland came through the ordeal in the end, their living standard has taken a hit: People are working harder for less.

I think there's a couple of reasons for that, but one of them is that a nation living within its means will never feel as prosperous as one borrowing to the hilt and partying like there's no tomorrow. Being responsible isn't going to be as much fun, there's no two ways about it. Britain - London, specially- is THE banking center of Europe. The British pound is (was?) unprecedentedly valued, making British purchases from the EU very cheap. In fact, that's one immediate complaint of young people: I won't be able to holiday in Europe like I used to.

--------------
I'll tell you what I DON'T like about Trump: I think that he has never confronted either the international banking cartel, nor the CIA-State Dept multi-headed hydra, nor the military-industrial complex. The last person to confront them was JFK (BTW, ALL immigration was illegal under JFK) and look what happened to him.

1KIKI

Sunday, June 26, 2016 9:39 PM

"We won't let anyone take Europe from us".

Well, the Germans have a very comfortable role in the EU. The Greeks, Italians and Spanish - not so much. Or, more accurately, the German internationalists have a very comfortable role in the EU because they get to take advantage of other countries in the EU, especially the Greeks, Italians and Spanish. So of course they don't want the party to end!

"... although Iceland came through the ordeal in the end, their living standard has taken a hit: People are working harder for less."

As has the living standard of many people after 2008. Did Icelanders get disproportionately affected?

Let me just point out that the author left out vital relevant facts in the opinion piece. Doing that is known as cherry-picking. And whether you do that in the news, in discussion, in debate or in opinion, when you distort the facts, you've changed the nature of your communication into propaganda. But WE don't have any of THAT in the US, do we?!

SECOND

Sunday, June 26, 2016 9:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Again, assuming that TPTB don't find a way to block Brexit, I don't expect it to be easy. The closest example I can think of is Iceland, which went on a huge borrowing binge pre-2008. Man, it was party-time nationwide! But once their three major banks crashed in an orgy of self-dealing and corruption, the Icelanders did what no one else has done: They let their banks fold, nationalized them, and threw the bankers in jail.

But while Icelanders did the right thing, they paid a price: Britain declared Iceland to be a "terrorist state" (for refusing to back British deposits in the Icelandic bank branches in Britain) and froze the Landsbanki assets in Britain, and British allies declared a freeze on all Icelandic assets everywhere. Iceland, in the throes of a financial crisis and a liquidity crisis, and with its financial lifelines cut, had to go begging for a creative loan from China. And although Iceland came through the ordeal in the end, their living standard has taken a hit: People are working harder for less.

I think there's a couple of reasons for that, but one of them is that a nation living within its means will never feel as prosperous as one borrowing to the hilt and partying like there's no tomorrow. Being responsible isn't going to be as much fun, there's no two ways about it.

8 Apr, 2016: Three top figures from Iceland’s failed Kaupthing Bank have been released from jail after barely serving a quarter of their sentences due to a new law. The bankers have served just one year of their four-to-five year sentences. All were convicted of financial fraud ahead of the collapse of the country's biggest bank in October 2008.
www.rt.com/news/338869-iceland-imprisoned-bankers-free/

Because of bank fraud, the market capitalization of the Icelandic stock exchange fell by more than 90%. Most Icelanders felt impoverished, stopped buying and selling to one another and to overseas, and thus they went from merely feeling poorer to actually being poorer. In time Icelanders understood how they had made themselves poorer and corrected themselves. Their economy then corrected itself:
www.tradingeconomics.com/iceland/gross-national-product

Calling Iceland a terrorist state was PM Gordon Brown being dishonest to save his own worthless baby-boomer ass. Did it work, Gordon? Where are you today?
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/may/14/gordon-brown-iceland-fin
ance

1KIKI

Sunday, June 26, 2016 10:14 PM

http://www.fastcoexist.com/3045425/the-10-happiest-countries-in-the-wo
rld

The 10 happiest countries:

1: Switzerland
2: Iceland
3: Denmark
4: Norway
5: Canada
6: Finland
7: Netherlands
8: Sweden
9: New Zealand
10: Australia

And there's Iceland, near the top. While Germany, king of the EU, is absent from the list.

How did Icelanders end up so happy despite their rough trip through the Great Recession?

I read an article (not going to bother to dig it up) that Icelanders never felt like they were individually isolated during economic hard times. Nobody blamed the individuals or stopped helping or caring. The sense was that they were in it together - and that you would help out others, and you could count on them to help you, too.

The other point made in the article was the idea that even though they had lost a lot, they looked on it as an opportunity to start fresh, to avoid past mistakes, and to make it better.

I think that sense of optimism stems from the fact that their country, its economy, ethics, and future, are under their personal control, as opposed to the control of national and/ or international functionaries who pretty obviously have no interest in listening to the people. They don't feel trapped and helpless in a system rigged against them.

Let me just point out that the author left out vital relevant facts in the opinion piece. Doing that is known as cherry-picking. And whether you do that in the news, in discussion, in debate or in opinion, when you distort the facts, you've changed the nature of your communication into propaganda. But WE don't have any of THAT in the US, do we?!

ELVISCHRIST

Monday, June 27, 2016 1:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Happening today.

What bothers me about it is that there will be no exit polls. That way, there is no check on whether the vote was manipulated or not. No matter how the vote turns out, people should be outraged about how it was conducted.

I don't recall you being upset when the DNC did away with exit polls in the majority of states with closed primaries...

1KIKI

Monday, June 27, 2016 1:21 AM

"I don't recall you being upset when the DNC did away with exit polls in the majority of states with closed primaries..."

It did? I didn't know that! The DNC sucks even more than I thought, then.

It looks to me like the DNC is tightening its grip on the process, making itself even less accountable, and shutting voters out even more. YAY for the DNC, Debbie, Hillary, and Roberta and their strike for women's equality!! It just goes to show you don't have to be an old white male to be a power-hungry asshole.

Let me just point out that the author left out vital relevant facts in the opinion piece. Doing that is known as cherry-picking. And whether you do that in the news, in discussion, in debate or in opinion, when you distort the facts, you've changed the nature of your communication into propaganda. But WE don't have any of THAT in the US, do we?!

KPO

Monday, June 27, 2016 3:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I'm laughing hysterically at the carnage. I'm surprised you can't hear me all the way over there.

Hedge funds make money off Brexit vote - https://city.wsj.com/stories/17a2e642-feae-4353-9245-224dad1fb4de.html

Quote:
"Two of the early beneficiaries were London hedge-fund chieftains who took different views on the vote, but both wound up making money..."

Oh well Sig, at least plenty of ordinary working people will get hurt.

THGRRI

Monday, June 27, 2016 3:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
"I don't recall you being upset when the DNC did away with exit polls in the majority of states with closed primaries..."

It did? I didn't know that! The DNC sucks even more than I thought, then.

It looks to me like the DNC is tightening its grip on the process, making itself even less accountable, and shutting voters out even more. YAY for the DNC, Debbie, Hillary, and Roberta and their strike for women's equality!! It just goes to show you don't have to be an old white male to be a power-hungry asshole.

Your hypocrisy knows no bounds. How can you claim Hillary to be a power hungry bitch while remaining quite as a church mouse, when Putin changed the constitution to run for a third term. And to this day you remain a Putinett.

1KIKI

Monday, June 27, 2016 3:44 AM

"Your hypocrisy knows no bounds. How can you claim Hillary to be a power hungry bitch while remaining quite as a church mouse, when Putin changed the constitution to run for a third term."

I see you can't even quote correctly. Leave it to YOU to use the sexist term bitch when I used the utterly gender neutral term asshole.

How can you be such a brainless liar? Whatever the DNC is doing, they're pretending to do it. IN MY NAME. They're doing it. IN MY COUNTRY. And what they doing. DIRECTLY INFRINGES ON ME.

Or are you a Russian? Does the US not matter to you?

Let me just point out that the author left out vital relevant facts in the opinion piece. Doing that is known as cherry-picking. And whether you do that in the news, in discussion, in debate or in opinion, when you distort the facts, you've changed the nature of your communication into propaganda. But WE don't have any of THAT in the US, do we?!

SIGNYM

Monday, June 27, 2016 6:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ElvisChrist:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Happening today.

What bothers me about it is that there will be no exit polls. That way, there is no check on whether the vote was manipulated or not. No matter how the vote turns out, people should be outraged about how it was conducted.

I don't recall you being upset when the DNC did away with exit polls in the majority of states with closed primaries...

Then you have a VERY crappy memory! I was aghast and angry that the DNC didn't follow up on the very clear vote count manipulation that went on. They should have jumped right on it, and set national standards for vote count audit trails.

People deserve to have their vote counted fairly, damnit! The only reason that I could figure why the DNC didn't pursue the fraud was that they intended to use it themselves one day.

--------------
I'll tell you what I DON'T like about Trump: I think that he has never confronted either the international banking cartel, nor the CIA-State Dept multi-headed hydra, nor the military-industrial complex. The last person to confront them was JFK (BTW, ALL immigration was illegal under JFK) and look what happened to him.

SIGNYM

Monday, June 27, 2016 6:52 AM

Quote:
Oh well Sig, at least plenty of ordinary working people will get hurt.

Now THAT is something I'm sure you'll laugh over!

--------------
I'll tell you what I DON'T like about Trump: I think that he has never confronted either the international banking cartel, nor the CIA-State Dept multi-headed hydra, nor the military-industrial complex. The last person to confront them was JFK (BTW, ALL immigration was illegal under JFK) and look what happened to him.

THGRRI

Monday, June 27, 2016 8:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
"Your hypocrisy knows no bounds. How can you claim Hillary to be a power hungry bitch while remaining quite as a church mouse, when Putin changed the constitution to run for a third term."

I see you can't even quote correctly. Leave it to YOU to use the sexist term bitch when I used the utterly gender neutral term asshole.

How can you be such a brainless liar? Whatever the DNC is doing, they're pretending to do it. IN MY NAME. They're doing it. IN MY COUNTRY. And what they doing. DIRECTLY INFRINGES ON ME.

Or are you a Russian? Does the US not matter to you?

Thanks 1kiki. Everyone here will enjoy the hypocrisy of your post.

1KIKI

Monday, June 27, 2016 8:05 AM

Are you Russian? Is that why you're stuck on Putin and refuse to discuss the US? Does the US not matter to you?

Let me just point out that the author left out vital relevant facts in the opinion piece. Doing that is known as cherry-picking. And whether you do that in the news, in discussion, in debate or in opinion, when you distort the facts, you've changed the nature of your communication into propaganda. But WE don't have any of THAT in the US, do we?!

SECOND

Monday, June 27, 2016 7:51 PM

Michael Gove, the justice minister and a leader of the “Leave” campaign, threw his support to the former London mayor Boris Johnson, the most prominent figure in the anti-Europe movement.

Hanging over the jockeying for power was intensifying discussion of whether the British exit, or “Brexit,” might somehow be avoided or circumvented. Cameron has said he will leave to his successor the decision on whether and when to begin formal divorce proceedings, and neither Johnson nor Gove has been demanding such a step, leaving open at least the possibility that Britain could negotiate new terms of membership with Brussels and hold another referendum.

Johnson said from the start of the campaign that a vote to leave would push EU nations into a new negotiation with Britain to keep it in the bloc. Leaders on the Continent have little appetite at the moment for such a deal, and circumventing the clear will of British voters would appear politically problematic for whoever succeeds Cameron.

But both Britain and the EU have a tradition of muddling through crises and finding compromises to avoid the worst outcomes.

The formal process of unwinding Britain’s membership in the EU begins only when the British government invokes Article 50 of the treaty governing the bloc’s operations. Yet Cameron has declined to do so, and Johnson and other leaders of the Leave campaign have avoided being pinned down on the issue.

www.pressreader.com/usa/houston-chronicle/20160627/281505045524105

There are 4 million signatures for another referendum: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

SIGNYM

Monday, June 27, 2016 7:56 PM

Quote:
Oh well Sig, at least plenty of ordinary working people will get hurt.- KRAPO Now THAT is something I'm sure you'll laugh over! - SIGNY

KRAPO, wherever did you get the idea that I was anything but FOR ordinary working people?

Here, I explain the problems of globalization/ internationalism/ multiculturalism for ordinary working people

Quote:
What the advocates of "multiculturalism" don't seem to realize is that there are no international democratic institutions. All of the international structures, like the EU, "free trade" agreements, and even the UN, are out of the reach of most people.

See? I even referenced them here.

Quote:
We can't vote on any of the policies that are decided on by international committees, technocrats, and arbitrators. If people were to look with any sort of clarity on the role of the Eurocrats in bringing unending unemployment to people of Southern Europe and how their economies are being sacrificed to support the Euro (currency), and how "free trade" agreements will ensure that decisions about the environment, labor, food safety etc. will be made by trade lawyers in secret courts only on the basis of their effect on international trade, "internationalism" stops looking so good.

By handing over the ability to take control of their own national policies, people have given up on being able to control ANY policy. And they've given it up and gotten nothing in return except a warm, fuzzy, meaningless feeling.

What is so wrong with wanting to be able to set national policies, to control (or at least manage) the production and flow of goods, the value of your national currency, and the number of people immigrating to your country? Who would rather have policy set by some faceless, distant bureaucrat five borders away? Don't we have enough problems of non-responsive government already, without making it a lot worse?

Curiously, judging by some of the people on this board, their warm fuzzy feeling of world solidarity ends the moment they encounter someone who TRULY thinks differently. One of the things that is beginning to horrify Germans, for example, is their encounter with large a large group of people who have entirely different views about what's right and wrong, what's important and unimportant, and who should decide. So even the self-congratulatory feeling of being a "person of the world" comes to a screeching halt when some of the other people of the world are TOO different, and those differences go beyond tasty food and interesting music. So much for multiculturalism!

At the same time that these mental midgets insist that they are persons of the world who value other cultures, they think nothing of bombing the snot out whole nations!

May I suggest a national identity that will be far more progressive than the one they currently follow? It has a few key elements:

FIRST, DO NO HARM.
As a nation of the world, one is not entitled to destroy other nations EXCEPT in direct self-defense. Bringing god to the heathens or Bringing democracy to the tyrannies or R2P at the point of a gun just never seems to work well. Historically, all it's managed to do is kill a shitload of people and install even worse tyrannies than before.

PLAY FAIR: TRADE FAIR
Don't economically exploit your fellow-nations. Now, generally, the exploitation is imposed at the point of a gun, so if you're not pointing your gun at another nation to begin with, you probably won't be able to hijack their resources or their labor or their markets. But just in case that's a little too distant in terms of cause-and-effect, take care not to work through entities which extract huge profits, especially those that rely on corrupting or intimidating their "business partners". (And it's not like Nestle and Apple and Walmart don't know what they're doing.)

NEITHER A BORROWER NOR A LENDER BE
This works for internal financing as well as internationa

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SIGNYM

Monday, June 27, 2016 8:15 PM

Quote:
The formal process of unwinding Britain’s membership in the EU begins only when the British government invokes Article 50 of the treaty governing the bloc’s operations.

Or when two years have passed, whichever comes first. For some reason the Brussels Eurocrats seem to think that they can force the UK into a decision, but I don't see how.

What I think if funny is that NOW the Eurocrats are saying that they need to be more responsive to ordinary working people! But the EU "democracy deficit" has been know for a decade, if not more. The Eurocrats have been having a nice cozy time scratching each other's backs in Brussels (where they get phenomenal salaries and pay no taxes) and passing regulations that benefit them and their wealthy friends without EVER having to refer to their own national Parliaments. What a scam!

--------------
I'll tell you what I DON'T like about Trump: I think that he has never confronted either the international banking cartel, nor the CIA-State Dept multi-headed hydra, nor the military-industrial complex. The last person to confront them was JFK (BTW, ALL immigration was illegal under JFK) and look what happened to him.

SIGNYM

Monday, June 27, 2016 8:32 PM

Quote:
I guess we get to see HOW well-capitalized the banks really are! - SIGNY

Brexit fallout continues to pummel U.K. and U.S. bank stocks
By Tomi Kilgore

Quote:
The stocks suffering the biggest percentage declines in premarket trade Monday can blame Brexit for their woes. The U.S.-listed shares of Barclays PLC BCS, -20.92% plunged 24%, after tumbling 20% on Friday. The stock was on track to open at the lowest level since March 25, 2009. The next biggest decliners were the U.S.-listed shares of Royal Bank of Scotland Group PLC RBS, -12.85% which plummeted 20% toward the lowest price seen since Jan. 26, 2009, and Lloyds Banking Group PLC LYG, -15.77% which plummeted 17% toward the lowest level seen since Nov. 16, 2012. On Friday, shares of both RBS and Lloyds had tumbled 23%. The selloff in U.K. bank stocks continued to spill over to their U.S.-based peers, with the SPDR Financial ETF XLF, -2.51% shedding 1.5% ahead of the open after tumbling 5.4% on Friday. Among XLF components, shares of Bank of America Corp. BAC, -5.23% slumped 1.8%, Citigroup Inc. C, -3.02% shed 1.9% and J.P. Morgan Chase & Co. JPM, -3.15% dropped 1.6%.

"Stocks" per se aren't really falling that much. Even the German stock exchange DAX- which took a worse beating than the the British FTSE - is still above late 2014 levels. But BANK stocks are being hit hard. The cumulative value of common (bank) stock is the core of "Tier one" capital, which is the amount of working capital that a bank is considered to have "in its vaults". When banks stocks drop drastically, the banks core reserves drop as a result. International banks went thru this in 2008. American banks were "recapitalized" (given more money) by the US Treasury and later by the Fed via "Quantitative Easing" (QE). The European banks were recapitalized (given more money) by ECB's QE in 2015.

Should globally active, systemically important banks start to falter, there is a provision called "Bail in" in which depositor's money is converted to stock. Individual American depositors are protected by FDIC insurance, but institutional depositors (retirement funds, smaller banks storing their money in larger banks, etc.) aren't protected. FWIW I don't think we'll get that far.

SIGNYM

Monday, June 27, 2016 8:46 PM

Quote:
That's beyond RICH coming from someone who has expressed zero concern for the Syrian civilians being slaughtered every day by Assad/Russian forces - you have made no comment while KPO has kept us continually updated.

With propaganda. Yes, let me take a moment to thank KRAPO for his one-eyed POV, because he never talks about jihadists slaughtering Syrian civilians, does he? It's just like your collective POV of Ukraine, bleating about a few people being killed on the Kiev side, and utterly failing to mention the 10,000 civilians killed and 1-2 million displaced on the other side. Your collective definition of "people" extends as far as your ideology, no further. And while a discussion of Syria belongs in any other thread except this one, I'm going to ask you a question which I hope you'll have the decency to answer elsewhere: What is the best way forward in Syria right now? Aiding and supporting al Qaida (al Nusra), ISIL, and other jihadists who are posing as "FSA"? Please feel free to link to your answer.

So thank you for bringing up a completely irrelevant topic, since you have nothing credible to say about Brexit or globalization.

--------------
I'll tell you what I DON'T like about Trump: I think that he has never confronted either the international banking cartel, nor the CIA-State Dept multi-headed hydra, nor the military-industrial complex. The last person to confront them was JFK (BTW, ALL immigration was illegal under JFK) and look what happened to him.

JAYNEZTOWN

Tuesday, June 28, 2016 12:21 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by G:

John Oliver's take.

oh sh--

aftermath

SIGNYM

Tuesday, June 28, 2016 12:55 AM

President Of The European Parliament: "It Is Not The EU Philosophy That The Crowd Can Decide Its Fate"

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-27/president-european-parliament
-it-not-eu-philosophy-crowd-can-decide-its-fate

--------------
I'll tell you what I DON'T like about Trump: I think that he has never confronted either the international banking cartel, nor the CIA-State Dept multi-headed hydra, nor the military-industrial complex. The last person to confront them was JFK (BTW, ALL immigration was illegal under JFK) and look what happened to him.

SECOND

Tuesday, June 28, 2016 1:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

President Of The European Parliament: "It Is Not The EU Philosophy That The Crowd Can Decide Its Fate"

In March 1991, the citizens of nine Soviet states voted in a referendum on whether to hold together the country in a way that devolved power out to the republics. Championed by Mikhail Gorbachev as a way to avoid a potential “disaster for this country, for Europeans, for the entire world,” the referendum passed.

The vote triggered a cascade of unexpected consequences, most prominently a coup attempt against Gorbachev that August. And on Dec. 26, 1991 — nine months after the referendum — the Soviet Union ceased to exist.

For Britons, the Soviet collapse may be a lesson in the unintended consequences of referendums.

Not only could the EU come apart, with other member states deciding it is each man for himself, but so too could the UK itself — with Scotland and Northern Ireland perhaps electing to stay with the EU, leaving a shrunken England.
http://qz.com/717786/for-britons-the-soviet-collapse-may-be-a-lesson-i
n-the-unintended-consequences-of-referendums/

THGRRI

Tuesday, June 28, 2016 6:41 AM

Nigel Farage on Brexit Vote: We Got Our Country Back

http://nation.foxnews.com/2016/06/27/nigel-farage-brexit-vote-we-got-o
ur-country-back

1KIKI

Tuesday, June 28, 2016 7:49 AM

I think the ordinary Brits had finally had it. And unlike the Greeks, who are too puny to get out of the maw that is the GermanEU, the Brits escaped.

Reading the various links, EVERYTHING that people criticize about the various free-trade agreements like NAFTA, CAFTA, TPP, and TTIP - lack of environmental or worker accountability, lack of ability to enforce national standards and laws, lack of democratic input - was true of the EU. But wait, there's more! It extended to banking, finance, labor - even travel. No wonder the London bankers were agin Brexit! It looks like it cuts London off from its lucrative 'head of European financialism' role, which takes a huge chunk out of its foreign sphere of ... influence is too weak a word ... dominance.

I think I got the gist.

The bansktas and the banskta city of London liked the EU, most everyone else disliked it.

Let me just point out that the author left out vital relevant facts in the opinion piece. Doing that is known as cherry-picking. And whether you do that in the news, in discussion, in debate or in opinion, when you distort the facts, you've changed the nature of your communication into propaganda. But WE don't have any of THAT in the US, do we?!

THGRRI

Tuesday, June 28, 2016 8:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
I think the ordinary Brits had finally had it. And unlike the Greeks, who are too puny to get out of the maw that is the GermanEU, the Brits escaped.

Reading the various links, EVERYTHING that people criticize about the various free-trade agreements like NAFTA, CAFTA, TPP, and TTIP - lack of environmental or worker accountability, lack of ability to enforce national standards and laws, lack of democratic input - was true of the EU. But wait, there's more! It extended to banking, finance, labor - even travel. No wonder the London bankers were agin Brexit! It looks like it cuts London off from its lucrative 'head of European financialism' role, which takes a huge chunk out of its foreign sphere of ... influence is too weak a word ... dominance.

I think I got the gist.

The bansktas and the banskta city of London liked the EU, most everyone else disliked it.

]

If you had watched the video I provided you would know a lot more than this post suggests you do. You got the first half right. If you want to understand the finances watch the video. I like what Nigel Farage says and I hope he is right.

1KIKI

Tuesday, June 28, 2016 9:36 AM

I've seen a number of films about the poverty rates in England, which are astronomical. On top of that it sold off its public health system and cut back its aid to the impoverished. All of that is putting people either close to being on the street or on it, with not enough to live on, fearing simple illness as the last thing that will finally do them in.

People don't quibble over the kinds of jobs immigrants take, unless they're scraping that level of employment themselves.

I have no problems with foreigners just because they're foreign. But I THINK people in England react to foreigners the way they do because they feel they've been ripped off by the system, abandoned by government, and unfairly made to compete with all the extra people coming into the country for whatever scraps are left. I THINK what's going on with immigrants comes down to money.

Let me just point out that the author left out vital relevant facts in the opinion piece. Doing that is known as cherry-picking. And whether you do that in the news, in discussion, in debate or in opinion, when you distort the facts, you've changed the nature of your communication into propaganda. But WE don't have any of THAT in the US, do we?!

THGRRI

Tuesday, June 28, 2016 10:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
I've seen a number of films about the poverty rates in England, which are astronomical. On top of that it sold off its public health system and cut back its aid to the impoverished. All of that is putting people either close to being on the street or on it, with not enough to live on, fearing simple illness as the last thing that will finally do them in.

People don't quibble over the kinds of jobs immigrants take, unless they're scraping that level of employment themselves.

I have no problems with foreigners just because they're foreign. But I THINK people in England react to foreigners the way they do because they feel they've been ripped off by the system, abandoned by government, and unfairly made to compete with all the extra people coming into the country for whatever scraps are left. I THINK what's going on with immigrants comes down to money.

God help me we agree on something. Same thing going on here. Half a million migrants a year in England and there share of lost jobs to third world countries. And the citizenry have had no say in it all.

SIGNYM

Tuesday, June 28, 2016 10:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

President Of The European Parliament: "It Is Not The EU Philosophy That The Crowd Can Decide Its Fate"
In March 1991, the citizens of nine Soviet states voted in a referendum on whether to hold together the country in a way that devolved power out to the republics. Championed by Mikhail Gorbachev as a way to avoid a potential “disaster for this country, for Europeans, for the entire world,” the referendum passed.

The vote triggered a cascade of unexpected consequences, most prominently a coup attempt against Gorbachev that August. And on Dec. 26, 1991 — nine months after the referendum — the Soviet Union ceased to exist.

For Britons, the Soviet collapse may be a lesson in the unintended consequences of referendums.

Not only could the EU come apart, with other member states deciding it is each man for himself, but so too could the UK itself — with Scotland and Northern Ireland perhaps electing to stay with the EU, leaving a shrunken England.
http://qz.com/717786/for-britons-the-soviet-collapse-may-be-a-lesson-i
n-the-unintended-consequences-of-referendums/

So ... you're defending the Soviet Union?

Because that's what it sounds like to me: Without even considering whether the Soviet Union or the EU- are evil or at least artificial and unwieldy, and whether they managed to represent the interests of their member states and their populations, the only thing you can say about potential dissolution is that referenda have "unintended consequences"?

--------------
I'll tell you what I DON'T like about Trump: I think that he has never confronted either the international banking cartel, nor the CIA-State Dept multi-headed hydra, nor the military-industrial complex. The last person to confront them was JFK (BTW, ALL immigration was illegal under JFK) and look what happened to him.

SIGNYM

Tuesday, June 28, 2016 11:53 AM

So OOC SECOND, what would have happened if the Soviet Union, in response to "losing" East Germany, decided to impose more stringent control over its satellite states instead of experiencing a cascade of referenda and dissolution? Maybe it would have looked like this...

France and Germany ‘draw up plans to morph EU countries into one with control over members’ armies and economies’

Quote:

France and Germany reported to have drawn up 'superstate plan'
It would mean members give up armies and economic power to the EU
Report 'leaked' in Poland where it has been branded 'not the solution'
Leaders of Germany, France and Italy said EU was 'indispensable'

Hmmm... kind of reminds me of that ass, Obama, calling the USA the "indispensable" nation. But I digress...

Quote:
Germany's foreign minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier and his French counterpart Jean-Marc Ayrault today presented a proposal for closer EU integration based on three key areas - internal and external security, the migrant crisis, and economic cooperation.

But the plans have been described as an 'ultimatum' in Poland, with claims it would mean countries transfer their armies, economic systems and border controls to the EU.

Which, as I've said before, is not a democratic institution.

Quote:
The plans have been 'leaked' to a Polish television channel and the country's foreign minister Witold Waszczykowski is said to be 'outraged'

Zaoralek added that the four eastern members had reservations about the proposed common security policy.

Eastern members have become increasingly jittery on security issues since Moscow used so-called "hybrid warfare", or undeclared covert tactics - to annex the Crimean peninsula from Ukraine in 2014.

Poland's public TVP described the Franco-German proposal as an "ultimatum" designed to create a European "superstate dominated by large nations."

Ayrault described the Franco-German proposal as a "contribution", adding that there would be "others".

According to the Daily Express, the nine-page report has 'outraged' its foreign minister Witold Waszczykowski.

He said: 'This is not a good solution, of course, because from the time the EU was invented a lot has changed.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3662827/Has-Britain-avoided-Eu
ropean-superstate-France-Germany-draw-plans-morph-EU-countries-one-control-members-armies-economies.html

Quote:
It appears The Brits may have dodged more than a bullet in their decision to leave The EU. The foreign ministers of France and Germany are reportedly due to reveal a blueprint to effectively do away with individual member states in what is being described as an "ultimatum." As The Express reports, the shockingly predictable final solution to Europe's Brexit-driven existential crisis is an apparently long-held plan to morph the continent’s countries into one giant superstate. The radical proposals mean EU countries will lose the right to have their own army, criminal law, taxation system or central bank, with all those powers being transferred to Brussels. According to the Daily Express, the nine-page report has "outraged" some EU leaders.

The plans for 'a closer European Union' have been branded an attempt to create a 'European superstate', as The Daily Mail reports,

Germany's foreign minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier and his French counterpart Jean-Marc Ayrault today presented a proposal for closer EU integration based on three key areas - internal and external security, the migrant crisis, and economic cooperation.

But the plans have been described as an 'ultimatum' in Poland, with claims it would mean countries transfer their armies, economic systems and border controls to the EU.

Controversially member states would also lose what few controls they have left over their own borders, including the procedure

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THGRRI

Tuesday, June 28, 2016 7:44 PM

Quote:
SIG

So OOC SECOND, what would have happened if the Soviet Union, in response to "losing" East Germany, decided to impose more stringent control over its satellite states instead of experiencing a cascade of referenda and dissolution? Maybe it would have looked like this...

France and Germany ‘draw up plans to morph EU countries into one with control over members’ armies and economies’

Lets not forget that these so called satellite states were once free nations devoured by Russia during WW11. Russia had to build walls to keep people in. Of course they ran for the hills as soon as they could. Their still trying to cut their ties to Russia. And Russia is try with all it's might to keep them in servitude.

Hey SIG, name another country in the world that had to build walls to keep its people from fleeing.

SIGNYM

Tuesday, June 28, 2016 7:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:

Quote:
SIG

So OOC SECOND, what would have happened if the Soviet Union, in response to "losing" East Germany, decided to impose more stringent control over its satellite states instead of experiencing a cascade of referenda and dissolution? Maybe it would have looked like this...

France and Germany ‘draw up plans to morph EU countries into one with control over members’ armies and economies’

Lets not forget that these so called satellite states were once free nations devoured by Russia during WW11. Russia had to build walls to keep people in. Of course they ran for the hills as soon as they could. Their still trying to cut their ties to Russia. And Russia is try with all it's might to keep them in servitude.

Hey SIG, name another country in the world that had to build walls to keep its people from fleeing.

Uh, THUGR, you may not have noticed, but I'm saying that the Soviet Union was unwieldy and that its dissolution was a GOOD thing, and that the EU is similar and that Brexit is a GOOD thing. I think we agree, so you might want to turn off your reflexive disagreement with me.

--------------
I'll tell you what I DON'T like about Trump: I think that he has never confronted either the international banking cartel, nor the CIA-State Dept multi-headed hydra, nor the military-industrial complex. The last person to confront them was JFK (BTW, ALL immigration was illegal under JFK) and look what happened to him.

SIGNYM

Tuesday, June 28, 2016 7:59 PM

FROM http://www.fireflyfans.net/mreply.aspx?q=y&mid=1012876

Quote:
It's called globalization. It's a good idea and it was working to an extent. The problem was our leaders were stupid and let the greedy win out. Companies chose slave labor over fair wages. We needed smart trade instead of free trade so we could move more slowly and create less victims. That is what the Brexit vote was about. That's why Donald Trump has had such success.- THUGR

Had remain won the referendum, the EU would have become hostage to British sabotage. Future British prime ministers would veto any fundamental change, correctly arguing that their people had voted only for the current set-up of the EU. Britain would continue to demand ever more opt-outs and concessions – playing to the fantasy that membership is a British favor to the rest of Europe. The British press and Europhobe politicians would go on portraying the EU in the most lurid, mendacious and derisory terms. The problem with Britain was not that it was critical of the EU. The problem was bad faith and delusional thinking.

On whose part? The Eurocrats?

Quote:
Bad faith and delusional thinking is Trump's way. His entire business model is built on bad faith: intentional deceit of others and self-deception. His government would be the same. Check Trump's failed Baja condo resort --
www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-baja-snap-story.html

Wow that's a harsh critique second. It's hard to give up ones sovereignty. Britain felt it was subject to a lot of bad decisions made by unelected officials from Brussels.

The EU was created to help France and Germany get together in peace. They had I think 3 wars in 70 years. The only way I think it would work is with all countries giving up their identity, borders and autonomy. Not going to happen. When we add global warming to the mix, all the migration it is starting to cause which will only get worse, we will see Britain's leaving is just the beginning.-THUGR

Copied to here

--------------
I'll tell you what I DON'T like about Trump: I think that he has never confronted either the international banking cartel, nor the CIA-State Dept multi-headed hydra, nor the military-industrial complex. The last person to confront them was JFK (BTW, ALL immigration was illegal under JFK) and look what happened to him.

KPO

Wednesday, June 29, 2016 12:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
KPO, wherever did you get the idea that I was anything but FOR ordinary working people?

So you believe this Brexit result that you're cheering will benefit ordinary working British people?

THGRRI

Wednesday, June 29, 2016 1:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
FROM http://www.fireflyfans.net/mreply.aspx?q=y&mid=1012876

Quote:
It's called globalization. It's a good idea and it was working to an extent. The problem was our leaders were stupid and let the greedy win out. Companies chose slave labor over fair wages. We needed smart trade instead of free trade so we could move more slowly and create less victims. That is what the Brexit vote was about. That's why Donald Trump has had such success.- THUGR

Had remain won the referendum, the EU would have become hostage to British sabotage. Future British prime ministers would veto any fundamental change, correctly arguing that their people had voted only for the current set-up of the EU. Britain would continue to demand ever more opt-outs and concessions – playing to the fantasy that membership is a British favor to the rest of Europe. The British press and Europhobe politicians would go on portraying the EU in the most lurid, mendacious and derisory terms. The problem with Britain was not that it was critical of the EU. The problem was bad faith and delusional thinking.
On whose part? The Eurocrats?

Quote:
Bad faith and delusional thinking is Trump's way. His entire business model is built on bad faith: intentional deceit of others and self-deception. His government would be the same. Check Trump's failed Baja condo resort --
www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-baja-snap-story.html]

Wow that's a harsh critique second. It's hard to give up ones sovereignty. Britain felt it was subject to a lot of bad decisions made by unelected officials from Brussels.

The EU was created to help France and Germany get together in peace. They had I think 3 wars in 70 years. The only way I think it would work is with all countries giving up their identity, borders and autonomy. Not going to happen. When we add global warming to the mix, all the migration it is starting to cause which will only get worse, we will see Britain's leaving is just the beginning.-THUGR

Quote:

Copied to here

--------------
I'll tell you what I DON'T like about Trump: I think that he has never confronted either the international banking cartel, nor the CIA-State Dept multi-headed hydra, nor the military-industrial complex. The last person to confront them was JFK (BTW, ALL immigration was illegal under JFK) and look what happened to him.

Yeah OK this is nothing but a fucking mess. You quote me and another here as though it is all me. Again it has to be pointed out to you that your bullshit posting is ad hoc ( formed, arranged, or done for a particular purpose only ). The purpose is to deceive. It's just another lie by you. Why, because once again you just can't make the case as to why you are right and not wrong.

Add to that your cut and pasted bushtit of subjective nonsense because you can't formulate your own thoughts and there you have it. More SIG CRAP.

____________________________________________

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JEWELSTAITEFAN

Wednesday, June 29, 2016 5:51 AM

I have heard that the UK paid 18 Billion each year just to be in the EU, coming out of taxpayer's pockets, consumed by nobody in Brussells who is elected. And how much did UK taxpayers cough up for Greece keeping all of it's citizens sitting on their duff, avoiding work like the plague?

SECOND

Wednesday, June 29, 2016 6:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I have heard that the UK paid 18 Billion each year just to be in the EU, coming out of taxpayer's pockets, consumed by nobody in Brussells who is elected. And how much did UK taxpayers cough up for Greece keeping all of it's citizens sitting on their duff, avoiding work like the plague?

The European Union is going to need a real opposition political party: One that can formulate a coherent alternate policy agenda and give dissatisfied voters the opportunity to “throw the bums out” without tearing down the entire institutional edifice they inhabit.

So far, Europe’s main center-left party has been too intellectually timid, too hungry for patronage, and too subordinate to local agendas to play that role. But to save the European Project, someone needs to speak strongly against the people currently managing it. Excessive partisan polarization has its flaws, but Europe is currently being brought to its knees by an absence of partisanship.

The notion of a “loyal opposition” is in many ways the key innovation in the institutionalization of democracy. The idea is that an organized political movement may object stridently to the agenda of the current governing regime without being seen as disloyal to the state or the nation. This means that incumbent rulers face meaningful electoral accountability. If voters are displeased with their performance, a rival team waits in the wings ready and eager to take over.

Traditionally we think of a loyal opposition as being absent because of repression by the rulers. But the European Union suffers essentially from the opposite problem — too much consensus.

Rather than being a choice between competing teams, each successive European Commission has reflected an effort to achieve balance — doling out seats to the center-right EPP, the center-left PES, and the centrist Liberals roughly according to their weight in Parliament.

This leaves voters displeased with the status quo only the option of voting for one of a variety of fringe parties who don’t credibly propose to govern. Or, more to the point, it leaves them with the option of becoming sullen and deciding not that the specific current crop of EU policymakers are bad but that the EU itself is bad.
www.vox.com/2016/6/29/12033278/european-parliament-opposition-party

SIGNYM

Wednesday, June 29, 2016 7:40 PM

Quote:

I have heard that the UK paid 18 Billion each year just to be in the EU, coming out of taxpayer's pockets, consumed by nobody in Brussells who is elected. And how much did UK taxpayers cough up for Greece keeping all of it's citizens sitting on their duff, avoiding work like the plague?- JSF

The money that the EU lends to Greece does NOT go to its citizens so they can be "sitting on their duff, avoiding work like the plague". It makes a straight U-turn and goes right back into German, Nederlander, and Finnish banks. The Greeks DON'T want the bailouts and have voted against them twice, in fact have even RIOTED against "bailouts". Greeks want to get back to work, because many Greeks have become impoverished, homeless, or are even starving. (That refers back to the "starvation" thread.) You have an entirely wrong impression of what is going on in Greece; the Greek people DON'T WANT BAILOUTS.

Quote:
The European Union is going to need a real opposition political party: One that can formulate a coherent alternate policy agenda and give dissatisfied voters the opportunity to “throw the bums out” without tearing down the entire institutional edifice they inhabit.

So far, Europe’s main center-left party has been too intellectually timid, too hungry for patronage, and too subordinate to local agendas to play that role. But to save the European Project, someone needs to speak strongly against the people currently managing it. Excessive partisan polarization has its flaws, but Europe is currently being brought to its knees by an absence of partisanship.- SECOND

There is no platform thru which "a" "European" opposition can make itself felt.

As you yourself posted, the European Commission is THE decision-making body (not the Parliament) and the European Commission is NOT ELECTED. In fact, all aspects of the EU are NOT ELECTED. The Council of Ministers, appointed. The head of the European Central Bank, appointed. The European Commission, appointed. All of those commissions, all of those Eurocrats in Brussels thinking about how to "harmonize" regulations and internal security - appointed.

The EU, in order to be at all democratic, would need an entire structural makeover. Key decision-making authorities would have to be made elected bodies. Until then, it is undemocratic in the extreme, and simply rolls over its member-states and their Parliaments no matter how they feel about

Immigration (Poland, Austria, Czech republic, etc)
Austerity (Greece, Italy, Spain, Ireland)
Anti-Russian sanctions (Italy, France)

It's not a case of parties being "too timid", it's a case of there being NO ROOM FOR DEMOCRACY in the structure of the EU itself.

--------------
I'll tell you what I DON'T like about Trump: I think that he has never confronted either the international banking cartel, nor the CIA-State Dept multi-headed hydra, nor the military-industrial complex. The last person to confront them was JFK (BTW, ALL immigration was illegal under JFK) and look what happened to him.

SIGNYM

Wednesday, June 29, 2016 7:51 PM

Quote:
KPO, wherever did you get the idea that I was anything but FOR ordinary working people?- SIGNY

So you believe this Brexit result that you're cheering will benefit ordinary working British people?- KPO

No. I believe Brexit will give ordinary working people the CHANCE to improve their lives by taking control of their government.

Until Brexit, the ordinary working people of Britain had no chance at all. They were in thrall to the European Commission over which ordinary working people anywhere in the EU have no say at all.

Nothing is certain, but if the Brits do it right, they can come through this like Iceland did.

--------------
I'll tell you what I DON'T like about Trump: I think that he has never confronted either the international banking cartel, nor the CIA-State Dept multi-headed hydra, nor the military-industrial complex. The last person to confront them was JFK (BTW, ALL immigration was illegal under JFK) and look what happened to him.

SECOND

Wednesday, June 29, 2016 8:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
There is no platform thru which "a" "European" opposition can make itself felt.

As you yourself posted, the European Commission is THE decision-making body (not the Parliament) and the European Commission is NOT ELECTED. In fact, all aspects of the EU are NOT ELECTED. The Council of Ministers, appointed. The head of the European Central Bank, appointed. The European Commission, appointed. All of those commissions, all of those Eurocrats in Brussels thinking about how to "harmonize" regulations and internal security - appointed.

The EU, in order to be at all democratic, would need an entire structural makeover. Key decision-making authorities would have to be made elected bodies. Until then, it is undemocratic in the extreme, and simply rolls over its member-states and their Parliaments no matter how they feel about

Immigration (Poland, Austria, Czech republic, etc)
Austerity (Greece, Italy, Spain, Ireland)
Anti-Russian sanctions (Italy, France)

It's not a case of parties being "too timid", it's a case of there being NO ROOM FOR DEMOCRACY in the structure of the EU itself.

I disagree with your "NO ROOM FOR DEMOCRACY in the structure of the EU itself." But you cleverly placed your finger exactly on why the EU is in trouble. The problem can be rather subtly fixed without nullifying every treaty and destroying the EU:

In institutional terms, developing a real opposition party would require entrenching the idea that the European Commission should be accountable to the European Parliament in the way that a normal national cabinet is accountable to the national parliament.

This is not exactly what the EU’s existing treaties set up.

Instead the treaties say that the commissioners should be selected by the European Council, which is a fancy name for a meeting of Europe’s various prime ministers. Out of habit, those PMs are not acting democratically. But luckily for the EU there’s a catch in the treaties that could fix this undemocratic mess — the Commission the Council selects needs to be approved by the Parliament. In the UK, Denmark, and other constitutional monarchies it’s generally the case that on paper it’s the king or queen who selects the prime minister, merely subject to the consent of parliament. But over time it’s become an overwhelmingly powerful norm that the monarch must pick as PM the winner of the election because the parliament won’t confirm anyone else.

And, indeed, the 2014 European Parliament election set up an embryonic version of this. Here comes half the fix to the EU’s problems:

The European People’s Party said that if they won the election, they wanted Jean-Claude Juncker to become president of the Commission. PM David Cameron strongly objected to this as a matter of substance, and several European heads of government objected to the process. But ultimately, Juncker was indeed picked even though the Council never formally agreed that Parliament had the right to force their hand.

Developing a real opposition party in the EU means pushing this logic a step further — claiming the right to name a full slate of commissioners in the event of an election win, in exchange for agreeing to name no commissioners as the price of defeat.
www.vox.com/2016/6/29/12033278/european-parliament-opposition-party

SIGNYM

Thursday, June 30, 2016 11:13 AM

It's more to that. The European Parliament can't even propose legislation (work programs, I think they call it).

The Treaty of Lisbon, which details the various functions of the EU commissions etc would need to be rewritten ... a constitutional amendment, so to speak.

So, just to give you an idea how non-democratic it is:

RUSSIAN SANCTIONS
French Senate Urges Government To Lift Sanctions On Russia
http://www.rferl.org/content/french-senate-urges-government-lift-europ
ean-union-sanctions-russia/27787635.html
... BUT ...
Merkel Says EU Will Extend Russian Sanctions Over Ukraine Crisis http://www.wsj.com/articles/merkel-says-eu-will-extend-russian-sanctio
ns-over-ukraine-crisis-1467156449

THE ORIGINAL EU CONSTITUTION
France Rejects European Constitution (2005)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/29/AR2005
052900644.html
Dutch say 'devastating no' to EU constitution
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/jun/02/eu.politics

GREEK BAILOUTS
Greece debt crisis: Greek voters reject bailout offer
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33403665

MIGRANT CRISIS
Migrant crisis: Opponents furious over new EU quotas
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34331126
EU to fine countries 'hundreds of millions of pounds' for refusing to take refugees
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/03/eu-to-fine-countries-that-r
efuse-refugee-quota/

I'm in a hurry, I just took a few minutes to grab these headlines but there are a lot more.

People vote for one thing, and they get something entirely different. That's the EU for you!

--------------
I'll tell you what I DON'T like about Trump: I think that he has never confronted either the international banking cartel, nor the CIA-State Dept multi-headed hydra, nor the military-industrial complex. The last person to confront them was JFK (BTW, ALL immigration was illegal under JFK) and look what happened to him.

SECOND

Thursday, June 30, 2016 6:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

People vote for one thing, and they get something entirely different. That's the EU for you!

Constitution ratification must be unanimous in the EU. The unanimous votes are why there is no EU constitution, just a bunch of piecemeal changes passed as treaties. That is why the EU countries’ Prime Ministers are being rude to everyone representing the UK. Luckily for the EU, the Treaty of Lisbon extended “qualified majority voting” to policy areas that had once required unanimity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_in_the_Council_of_the_European_Un
ion#Policy_areas

It is possible to fix the undemocratic EU, but not possible if the UK’s government is sabotaging it. That is why UK is being urged to leave immediately, despite the UK Parliament not yet triggering Article 50. The EU doesn't want the UK to even think about a second referendum.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

David Cameron was not thinking when he called the Brexit vote and he forgot to make it a super-majority such as 66.7% or 75%. He left it at 50%+, which was very stupid of him.

THGRRI

Thursday, June 30, 2016 8:18 PM

I think the UK should wait to enact article 50. This way nothing changes till they have planned a course of action. They have two years to do so. In the mean time they can start working on deals with non EU nations. Remember, the EU cannot act against England till they file.

When you do not have sovereignty of your own nation is it because of big business? Is that who is pulling the strings on globalization? From what little I understand I think the UK did the right thing by leaving. The EU plans to raise an army. Then what, each nation must disband theirs? Does the EU evidently become Germany?

I believe globalization is the way to go. It just needs to slow down so countries can mature into it and the people of the world needed to be in control.

____________________________________________

KPO

Friday, July 1, 2016 1:55 AM

JAYNEZTOWN

Friday, July 1, 2016 5:11 AM

speaking of Boris

SIGNYM

Friday, July 1, 2016 6:58 PM

Quote:
It is possible to fix the undemocratic EU, but not possible if the UK’s government is sabotaging it.

The EU was 100% unmotivated to "fix" ANYthing until the Brexit vote. Then, all of a sudden, they started talking about making the EU "relevant" to ordinary people, and "delivering results".

The EU commissioners, technocrats, and councilors have NO INTENTION of reforming anything. They're hoping to punish the Brits for having the temerity to leave, like an abusive husband who is both shocked and offended that his wife ... actually ... left him. I'm not seeing ANY move towards greater democracy.

If anything the EU is doubling down on the usual carrots and sticks- NOW they're talking about an EU army to "keep the peace within their borders" (Maybe Greece needs to be invaded, yanno? Or Poland!) And they've broken their own policy of not allowing individual governments to bail out their own banks unless the shareholders and depositors have been "bailed in" first by allowing ITALY to provide guarantees against its own banks, to PREVENT A RUN ON ITALIAN BANKS.

With the EU, it's not about "rules" it's all about power. Germany has the first say, France has the second, and Italy has the third (but only on small things, and only if German and France agree with it). Meanwhile, they will browbeat and extort Greece, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Poland ... any nation too small to stand up for itself.

You have fantasies of TPTB ... the Dems, Obama, Hillary, the EU, Merkel, Hollande ... being "nice people", believing that they think about your (our) safety and prosperity. A sort of West Wing vision of politics. In reality we are only so much fodder for their dreams of wealth and power. When they're not thinking about how to get MORE MONEY they're thinking about creating a nice safe post-job niche/ hidey hole. And when they're not thinking about that, they're thinking about how to dismember their political enemies who are, after all, fighting for the same piece of monetary pie.

I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

--------------
I'll tell you what I DON'T like about Trump: I think that he has never confronted either the international banking cartel, nor the CIA-State Dept multi-headed hydra, nor the military-industrial complex. The last person to confront them was JFK (BTW, ALL immigration was illegal under JFK) and look what happened to him.

KPO

Saturday, July 2, 2016 6:49 AM

Quote:
Hee hee. A really good movie imho. I have also seen one of these for "They cancelled Firefly???"

Yeah I saw it, it was superb. A friend of mine made one for England's exit from Euro 2016 - https://twitter.com/PunditShearer/status/747858657141006336

Quote:
KPO: do you think Cameron is being a bit, hmmmm, weak by running away from this?

Hmm, when the results came in commentators were starting to say his position was untenable. He had campaigned so hard to Remain, he couldn't credibly lead the country through an exit. Someone who believes in that cause, has a vision of Britain flourishing outside the EU, an idiot basically, should have that task.

There's also still the possibility that the population's mood might shift, and change its mind about quitting the EU. This is not unlikely to happen if and when the nation is confronted with the specific terms of a negotiated post-Brexit deal with the EU. A lot of Leave supporters will be pretty disappointed to find that the deal will be a compromise with the EU on 3 issues:

1) Still allowing a lot of EU migrants into the country
2) Still paying a lot of £££ into the EU

Or else
3) Suffering severe economic disruption at not having access to the Single Market.

Leave voters were promised everything by the various Brexit proponents, and they may be in for a shock when the specifics are hashed out. In any case, Brexit leaders must have large control over the UK's final deal with the EU, because if Cameron were to do it people would blame him for the rubbish Brexit deal saying his heart wasn't in it, rather than seeing that they were lied to by the Brexiteers.

For the same reason it would be foolish for the EU to take a vindictive, punitive stance in its negotiations with the UK. There's no need for them to go out of their way to teach us a lesson - UK people may learn it by themselves when confronted with the clear, unpretty picture of life outside of the EU.

JAYNEZTOWN

Saturday, July 2, 2016 4:40 PM

US stock indexes end strong week with tiny gains
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/us-stock-indexes-edge-higher-142154585.h
tml

U.S. stock indexes marked their fourth consecutive gain Friday, an upbeat finish for a week that got off to a turbulent start as investors fretted about Britain's vote to leave the European Union.

In the days since the two-day market tumble ended on Tuesday, the U.S. stock market came close to regaining all the ground lost since the vote last week. It ended the week up 3 percent, its biggest weekly gain since November.

The main stock indexes in Europe posted even bigger gains this week, with British stocks recouping all their losses along the way.

At the same time, demand for U.S. Treasurys surged this week, driving bond prices sharply higher. That pulled down the yield on the 10-year Treasury note to 1.44 percent Friday, close to its record low.

Investors also bid up the price of gold, another traditional safe-haven.

SIGNYM

Saturday, July 2, 2016 6:58 PM

--------------
I'll tell you what I DON'T like about Trump: I think that he has never confronted either the international banking cartel, nor the CIA-State Dept multi-headed hydra, nor the military-industrial complex. The last person to confront them was JFK (BTW, ALL immigration was illegal under JFK) and look what happened to him.

THGRRI

Sunday, July 3, 2016 8:59 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
KPO, wherever did you get the idea that I was anything but FOR ordinary working people?- SIGNY

So you believe this Brexit result that you're cheering will benefit ordinary working British people?- KPO

No. I believe Brexit will give ordinary working people the CHANCE to improve their lives by taking control of their government.

Until Brexit, the ordinary working people of Britain had no chance at all. They were in thrall to the European Commission over which ordinary working people anywhere in the EU have no say at all.

Nothing is certain, but if the Brits do it right, they can come through this like Iceland did.

Failed Socialism: What’s Next After the Brexit Referendum?

"As I’ve been saying the last couple of weeks, British citizens and businesses have grown fed up with an avalanche of failed socialist rules and regulations from Brussels, responsible for bringing growth and innovation to a grinding halt. Even if the referendum had gone the other way, it should still have served as a wake-up call to the European Union’s unelected bureaucratic dictators. Euroscepticism and populist movements are gathering momentum in EU countries from Italy to France to Sweden, and the week before last, fiercely independent Switzerland, which voted against joining the EU in the 1990s, finally yanked its membership application for good."

http://www.etftrends.com/2016/07/failed-socialism-whats-next-after-the
-brexit-referendum/

____________________________________________

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Friday, July 8, 2016 5:17 AM

I hear bank withdrawals have been frozen for some - sound like Greece, also a EU member.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jul/05/aviva-halts-trading-i
n-its-property-fund-brexit-standard-life

http://www.straitstimes.com/business/economy/panic-withdrawals-halt-fo
ur-more-uk-property-funds

http://www.livemint.com/Money/6Z3sKu9Z67Js6QIzSLLkGK/Brexit-fallout-Pa
nic-withdrawals-halt-three-more-UK-propert.html

http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-k-property-shares-drop-on-uncertainty-fo
llowing-eu-referendum-vote-1467715870

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/3-u-k-property-funds-halt-withdrawals-as-b
rexit-fears-rise/

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-06/henderson-suspends-5
-billion-real-estate-fund-on-liquidity

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Sunday, July 17, 2016 1:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
So far the Dow has only dropped about 600 points.
Many are making it sound like mayhem.

This week, looks like on 15 July, DJIA hit it's all-time high of 18,557.

THGRRI

Wednesday, August 17, 2016 11:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
If you look at the growth rate in England it is at 7 plus percent since the crash. The rest of Europe excluding Germany is 0.3 % or so. If you look at the unemployment rate England is at around 5. something present. From there it goes to like 17% in Spain. England is paying in much more to Europe than it is getting back.

Also the English are looking at the future. Many refuse to realize that with global warming Europe is going to be very vulnerable to immigrants migrating to Europe in numbers that dwarf what they are dealing with now.

A major consequence to England could be Scotland voting to leave England so they may stay in the EU. Big misstate because the EU is a failed experiment. Watch Ireland as well. These directly effect the United Kingdom. Other European countries will follow England's lead. This does not affect NATO.

For all the skeptics not supporting Brexit here is a fresh take on some of the actions needed to give the European Union a chance to succeed. Changes that are probably not going to happen.

Nobel Laureate Joseph Stiglitz Says the Euro Needs Big Reform

THE EURO
How a Common Currency Threatens the Future of Europe

"The nasty headlines from across the Atlantic — Brexit, terrorism, debt crises — almost make us forget that these were supposed to be Europe’s salad days. With a common currency and increasing integration, Europe was, finally, bidding adieu to cross-border conflict and economic crisis. Turmoil and strife were so very 20th century; the future was to be only digital apps and polyglot cafes.

Well, they still have Chartres, and they still have Goethe. They also have millions of migrants, rising nationalism, recurrent recessions and plummeting birthrates. What went wrong?"

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/21/books/review/euro-joseph-e-stiglitz.
html?_r=0

____________________________________________

JAYNEZTOWN

Thursday, October 20, 2022 7:51 PM

A 90-minute shouting match: Suella Braverman had 'fiery' meeting with Liz Truss before quitting as Home Secretary and plunging the knife in... as senior Tories hold urgent talks on how to remove Prime Minister from office

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11333993/Suella-Braverman-90-
minute-shouting-match-Liz-Truss-quitting-Home-Secretary.html

Can Boris Johnson come back as Prime Minister?

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/20172191/can-boris-johnson-come-back-as-
prime-minister/

Man convinced Boris Johnson will return as PM after 'spotting his face in chicken korma'

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/man-convinced-boris-johnson-r
eturn-28274982

JAYNEZTOWN

Thursday, October 27, 2022 12:06 AM

Fiery Sunak locks horns with Starmer over economy, Brexit and Braverman in first PMQs as Prime Minister

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/sunak-starmer-lock-horns-first-pmqs/

SIGNYM

Thursday, October 27, 2022 2:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
It is possible to fix the undemocratic EU, but not possible if the UK’s government is sabotaging it.
The EU was 100% unmotivated to "fix" ANYthing until the Brexit vote. Then, all of a sudden, they started talking about making the EU "relevant" to ordinary people, and "delivering results".

The EU commissioners, technocrats, and councilors have NO INTENTION of reforming anything. They're hoping to punish the Brits for having the temerity to leave, like an abusive husband who is both shocked and offended that his wife ... actually ... left him. I'm not seeing ANY move towards greater democracy.

If anything the EU is doubling down on the usual carrots and sticks- NOW they're talking about an EU army to "keep the peace within their borders" (Maybe Greece needs to be invaded, yanno? Or Poland!) And they've broken their own policy of not allowing individual governments to bail out their own banks unless the shareholders and depositors have been "bailed in" first by allowing ITALY to provide guarantees against its own banks, to PREVENT A RUN ON ITALIAN BANKS.

With the EU, it's not about "rules" it's all about power. Germany has the first say, France has the second, and Italy has the third (but only on small things, and only if German and France agree with it). Meanwhile, they will browbeat and extort Greece, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Poland ... any nation too small to stand up for itself.

You have fantasies of TPTB ... the Dems, Obama, Hillary, the EU, Merkel, Hollande ... being "nice people", believing that they think about your (our) safety and prosperity. A sort of West Wing vision of politics. In reality we are only so much fodder for their dreams of wealth and power. When they're not thinking about how to get MORE MONEY they're thinking about creating a nice safe post-job niche/ hidey hole. And when they're not thinking about that, they're thinking about how to dismember their political enemies who are, after all, fighting for the same piece of monetary pie.

I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

--------------
I'll tell you what I DON'T like about Trump: I think that he has never confronted either the international banking cartel, nor the CIA-State Dept multi-headed hydra, nor the military-industrial complex. The last person to confront them was JFK (BTW, ALL immigration was illegal under JFK) and look what happened to him.

Six years in, and nothing has changed, except that someone (prolly USA) blew up Germany's economic lifeblood.

If you think about it, the USA and the rest of the EU are destroying Germany, just like Germany was destroyed post WWI.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake

JAYNEZTOWN

Tuesday, May 16, 2023 7:06 PM

Nigel Farage Admits 'Brexit Has Failed' In Astonishing Newsnight Clash

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/nigel-farage-admits-brexit-has-
failed_uk_64632cf6e4b094269bb64de7

“Economically, the UK would have been better off staying in, wouldn’t it?”

Farage said he “doesn’t think that for a minute”, but insisted the Tories
(UK Conservative Party)
had been worse than the European Commission at running the economy.

He said: “What I do think is that we haven’t actually benefited economically from Brexit.

?What Brexit’s proved, I’m afraid is that our politicians are about as useless as the commissioners in Brussels were.

JAYNEZTOWN

Tuesday, July 11, 2023 5:26 PM

Nigel Farage's bank accounts: What's it all about, and what's the Coutts threshold?

https://news.sky.com/story/nigel-farages-bank-accounts-whats-it-all-ab
out-and-whats-the-coutts-threshold-12915155

'banking scandal'