Brexit vote Thursday June 23

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Tuesday, July 11, 2023 17:26
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THGRRI

Tuesday, June 28, 2016 8:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
I think the ordinary Brits had finally had it. And unlike the Greeks, who are too puny to get out of the maw that is the GermanEU, the Brits escaped.

Reading the various links, EVERYTHING that people criticize about the various free-trade agreements like NAFTA, CAFTA, TPP, and TTIP - lack of environmental or worker accountability, lack of ability to enforce national standards and laws, lack of democratic input - was true of the EU. But wait, there's more! It extended to banking, finance, labor - even travel. No wonder the London bankers were agin Brexit! It looks like it cuts London off from its lucrative 'head of European financialism' role, which takes a huge chunk out of its foreign sphere of ... influence is too weak a word ... dominance.

I think I got the gist.

The bansktas and the banskta city of London liked the EU, most everyone else disliked it.

]

If you had watched the video I provided you would know a lot more than this post suggests you do. You got the first half right. If you want to understand the finances watch the video. I like what Nigel Farage says and I hope he is right.

1KIKI

Tuesday, June 28, 2016 9:36 AM

I've seen a number of films about the poverty rates in England, which are astronomical. On top of that it sold off its public health system and cut back its aid to the impoverished. All of that is putting people either close to being on the street or on it, with not enough to live on, fearing simple illness as the last thing that will finally do them in.

People don't quibble over the kinds of jobs immigrants take, unless they're scraping that level of employment themselves.

I have no problems with foreigners just because they're foreign. But I THINK people in England react to foreigners the way they do because they feel they've been ripped off by the system, abandoned by government, and unfairly made to compete with all the extra people coming into the country for whatever scraps are left. I THINK what's going on with immigrants comes down to money.

Let me just point out that the author left out vital relevant facts in the opinion piece. Doing that is known as cherry-picking. And whether you do that in the news, in discussion, in debate or in opinion, when you distort the facts, you've changed the nature of your communication into propaganda. But WE don't have any of THAT in the US, do we?!

THGRRI

Tuesday, June 28, 2016 10:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
I've seen a number of films about the poverty rates in England, which are astronomical. On top of that it sold off its public health system and cut back its aid to the impoverished. All of that is putting people either close to being on the street or on it, with not enough to live on, fearing simple illness as the last thing that will finally do them in.

People don't quibble over the kinds of jobs immigrants take, unless they're scraping that level of employment themselves.

I have no problems with foreigners just because they're foreign. But I THINK people in England react to foreigners the way they do because they feel they've been ripped off by the system, abandoned by government, and unfairly made to compete with all the extra people coming into the country for whatever scraps are left. I THINK what's going on with immigrants comes down to money.

God help me we agree on something. Same thing going on here. Half a million migrants a year in England and there share of lost jobs to third world countries. And the citizenry have had no say in it all.

SIGNYM

Tuesday, June 28, 2016 10:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

President Of The European Parliament: "It Is Not The EU Philosophy That The Crowd Can Decide Its Fate"
In March 1991, the citizens of nine Soviet states voted in a referendum on whether to hold together the country in a way that devolved power out to the republics. Championed by Mikhail Gorbachev as a way to avoid a potential “disaster for this country, for Europeans, for the entire world,” the referendum passed.

The vote triggered a cascade of unexpected consequences, most prominently a coup attempt against Gorbachev that August. And on Dec. 26, 1991 — nine months after the referendum — the Soviet Union ceased to exist.

For Britons, the Soviet collapse may be a lesson in the unintended consequences of referendums.

Not only could the EU come apart, with other member states deciding it is each man for himself, but so too could the UK itself — with Scotland and Northern Ireland perhaps electing to stay with the EU, leaving a shrunken England.
http://qz.com/717786/for-britons-the-soviet-collapse-may-be-a-lesson-i
n-the-unintended-consequences-of-referendums/

So ... you're defending the Soviet Union?

Because that's what it sounds like to me: Without even considering whether the Soviet Union or the EU- are evil or at least artificial and unwieldy, and whether they managed to represent the interests of their member states and their populations, the only thing you can say about potential dissolution is that referenda have "unintended consequences"?

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I'll tell you what I DON'T like about Trump: I think that he has never confronted either the international banking cartel, nor the CIA-State Dept multi-headed hydra, nor the military-industrial complex. The last person to confront them was JFK (BTW, ALL immigration was illegal under JFK) and look what happened to him.

SIGNYM

Tuesday, June 28, 2016 11:53 AM

So OOC SECOND, what would have happened if the Soviet Union, in response to "losing" East Germany, decided to impose more stringent control over its satellite states instead of experiencing a cascade of referenda and dissolution? Maybe it would have looked like this...

France and Germany ‘draw up plans to morph EU countries into one with control over members’ armies and economies’

Quote:

France and Germany reported to have drawn up 'superstate plan'
It would mean members give up armies and economic power to the EU
Report 'leaked' in Poland where it has been branded 'not the solution'
Leaders of Germany, France and Italy said EU was 'indispensable'

Hmmm... kind of reminds me of that ass, Obama, calling the USA the "indispensable" nation. But I digress...

Quote:
Germany's foreign minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier and his French counterpart Jean-Marc Ayrault today presented a proposal for closer EU integration based on three key areas - internal and external security, the migrant crisis, and economic cooperation.

But the plans have been described as an 'ultimatum' in Poland, with claims it would mean countries transfer their armies, economic systems and border controls to the EU.

Which, as I've said before, is not a democratic institution.

Quote:
The plans have been 'leaked' to a Polish television channel and the country's foreign minister Witold Waszczykowski is said to be 'outraged'

Zaoralek added that the four eastern members had reservations about the proposed common security policy.

Eastern members have become increasingly jittery on security issues since Moscow used so-called "hybrid warfare", or undeclared covert tactics - to annex the Crimean peninsula from Ukraine in 2014.

Poland's public TVP described the Franco-German proposal as an "ultimatum" designed to create a European "superstate dominated by large nations."

Ayrault described the Franco-German proposal as a "contribution", adding that there would be "others".

According to the Daily Express, the nine-page report has 'outraged' its foreign minister Witold Waszczykowski.

He said: 'This is not a good solution, of course, because from the time the EU was invented a lot has changed.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3662827/Has-Britain-avoided-Eu
ropean-superstate-France-Germany-draw-plans-morph-EU-countries-one-control-members-armies-economies.html

Quote:
It appears The Brits may have dodged more than a bullet in their decision to leave The EU. The foreign ministers of France and Germany are reportedly due to reveal a blueprint to effectively do away with individual member states in what is being described as an "ultimatum." As The Express reports, the shockingly predictable final solution to Europe's Brexit-driven existential crisis is an apparently long-held plan to morph the continent’s countries into one giant superstate. The radical proposals mean EU countries will lose the right to have their own army, criminal law, taxation system or central bank, with all those powers being transferred to Brussels. According to the Daily Express, the nine-page report has "outraged" some EU leaders.

The plans for 'a closer European Union' have been branded an attempt to create a 'European superstate', as The Daily Mail reports,

Germany's foreign minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier and his French counterpart Jean-Marc Ayrault today presented a proposal for closer EU integration based on three key areas - internal and external security, the migrant crisis, and economic cooperation.

But the plans have been described as an 'ultimatum' in Poland, with claims it would mean countries transfer their armies, economic systems and border controls to the EU.

Controversially member states would also lose what few controls they have left over their own borders, including the procedure

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THGRRI

Tuesday, June 28, 2016 7:44 PM

Quote:
SIG

So OOC SECOND, what would have happened if the Soviet Union, in response to "losing" East Germany, decided to impose more stringent control over its satellite states instead of experiencing a cascade of referenda and dissolution? Maybe it would have looked like this...

France and Germany ‘draw up plans to morph EU countries into one with control over members’ armies and economies’

Lets not forget that these so called satellite states were once free nations devoured by Russia during WW11. Russia had to build walls to keep people in. Of course they ran for the hills as soon as they could. Their still trying to cut their ties to Russia. And Russia is try with all it's might to keep them in servitude.

Hey SIG, name another country in the world that had to build walls to keep its people from fleeing.

SIGNYM

Tuesday, June 28, 2016 7:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:

Quote:
SIG

So OOC SECOND, what would have happened if the Soviet Union, in response to "losing" East Germany, decided to impose more stringent control over its satellite states instead of experiencing a cascade of referenda and dissolution? Maybe it would have looked like this...

France and Germany ‘draw up plans to morph EU countries into one with control over members’ armies and economies’

Lets not forget that these so called satellite states were once free nations devoured by Russia during WW11. Russia had to build walls to keep people in. Of course they ran for the hills as soon as they could. Their still trying to cut their ties to Russia. And Russia is try with all it's might to keep them in servitude.

Hey SIG, name another country in the world that had to build walls to keep its people from fleeing.

Uh, THUGR, you may not have noticed, but I'm saying that the Soviet Union was unwieldy and that its dissolution was a GOOD thing, and that the EU is similar and that Brexit is a GOOD thing. I think we agree, so you might want to turn off your reflexive disagreement with me.

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I'll tell you what I DON'T like about Trump: I think that he has never confronted either the international banking cartel, nor the CIA-State Dept multi-headed hydra, nor the military-industrial complex. The last person to confront them was JFK (BTW, ALL immigration was illegal under JFK) and look what happened to him.

SIGNYM

Tuesday, June 28, 2016 7:59 PM

FROM http://www.fireflyfans.net/mreply.aspx?q=y&mid=1012876

Quote:
It's called globalization. It's a good idea and it was working to an extent. The problem was our leaders were stupid and let the greedy win out. Companies chose slave labor over fair wages. We needed smart trade instead of free trade so we could move more slowly and create less victims. That is what the Brexit vote was about. That's why Donald Trump has had such success.- THUGR

Had remain won the referendum, the EU would have become hostage to British sabotage. Future British prime ministers would veto any fundamental change, correctly arguing that their people had voted only for the current set-up of the EU. Britain would continue to demand ever more opt-outs and concessions – playing to the fantasy that membership is a British favor to the rest of Europe. The British press and Europhobe politicians would go on portraying the EU in the most lurid, mendacious and derisory terms. The problem with Britain was not that it was critical of the EU. The problem was bad faith and delusional thinking.

On whose part? The Eurocrats?

Quote:
Bad faith and delusional thinking is Trump's way. His entire business model is built on bad faith: intentional deceit of others and self-deception. His government would be the same. Check Trump's failed Baja condo resort --
www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-baja-snap-story.html

Wow that's a harsh critique second. It's hard to give up ones sovereignty. Britain felt it was subject to a lot of bad decisions made by unelected officials from Brussels.

The EU was created to help France and Germany get together in peace. They had I think 3 wars in 70 years. The only way I think it would work is with all countries giving up their identity, borders and autonomy. Not going to happen. When we add global warming to the mix, all the migration it is starting to cause which will only get worse, we will see Britain's leaving is just the beginning.-THUGR

Copied to here

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I'll tell you what I DON'T like about Trump: I think that he has never confronted either the international banking cartel, nor the CIA-State Dept multi-headed hydra, nor the military-industrial complex. The last person to confront them was JFK (BTW, ALL immigration was illegal under JFK) and look what happened to him.

KPO

Wednesday, June 29, 2016 12:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
KPO, wherever did you get the idea that I was anything but FOR ordinary working people?

So you believe this Brexit result that you're cheering will benefit ordinary working British people?

THGRRI

Wednesday, June 29, 2016 1:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
FROM http://www.fireflyfans.net/mreply.aspx?q=y&mid=1012876

Quote:
It's called globalization. It's a good idea and it was working to an extent. The problem was our leaders were stupid and let the greedy win out. Companies chose slave labor over fair wages. We needed smart trade instead of free trade so we could move more slowly and create less victims. That is what the Brexit vote was about. That's why Donald Trump has had such success.- THUGR

Had remain won the referendum, the EU would have become hostage to British sabotage. Future British prime ministers would veto any fundamental change, correctly arguing that their people had voted only for the current set-up of the EU. Britain would continue to demand ever more opt-outs and concessions – playing to the fantasy that membership is a British favor to the rest of Europe. The British press and Europhobe politicians would go on portraying the EU in the most lurid, mendacious and derisory terms. The problem with Britain was not that it was critical of the EU. The problem was bad faith and delusional thinking.
On whose part? The Eurocrats?

Quote:
Bad faith and delusional thinking is Trump's way. His entire business model is built on bad faith: intentional deceit of others and self-deception. His government would be the same. Check Trump's failed Baja condo resort --
www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-baja-snap-story.html]

Wow that's a harsh critique second. It's hard to give up ones sovereignty. Britain felt it was subject to a lot of bad decisions made by unelected officials from Brussels.

The EU was created to help France and Germany get together in peace. They had I think 3 wars in 70 years. The only way I think it would work is with all countries giving up their identity, borders and autonomy. Not going to happen. When we add global warming to the mix, all the migration it is starting to cause which will only get worse, we will see Britain's leaving is just the beginning.-THUGR

Quote:

Copied to here

--------------
I'll tell you what I DON'T like about Trump: I think that he has never confronted either the international banking cartel, nor the CIA-State Dept multi-headed hydra, nor the military-industrial complex. The last person to confront them was JFK (BTW, ALL immigration was illegal under JFK) and look what happened to him.

Yeah OK this is nothing but a fucking mess. You quote me and another here as though it is all me. Again it has to be pointed out to you that your bullshit posting is ad hoc ( formed, arranged, or done for a particular purpose only ). The purpose is to deceive. It's just another lie by you. Why, because once again you just can't make the case as to why you are right and not wrong.

Add to that your cut and pasted bushtit of subjective nonsense because you can't formulate your own thoughts and there you have it. More SIG CRAP.

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