Brexit vote Thursday June 23
POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Tuesday, July 11, 2023 17:26
VIEWED: 10465
PAGE 3 of 10
If you look at the growth rate in England it is at 7 plus percent since the crash. The rest of Europe excluding Germany is 0.3 % or so. If you look at the unemployment rate England is at around 5. something present. From there it goes to like 17% in Spain. England is paying in much more to Europe than it is getting back.
Also the English are looking at the future. Many refuse to realize that with global warming Europe is going to be very vulnerable to immigrants migrating to Europe in numbers that dwarf what they are dealing with now.
A major consequence to England could be Scotland voting to leave England so they may stay in the EU. Big misstate because the EU is a failed experiment. Watch Ireland as well. These directly effect the United Kingdom. Other European countries will follow England's lead. This does not affect NATO.
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So far the Dow has only dropped about 600 points.
Many are making it sound like mayhem.
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Quote:There is only one way to change the EU – vote to leave the EU then negotiate a better deal with it.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
What this reminds me of is the Greek vote on austerity. The polls were saying it was a close vote, and most Greeks assumed that the pro-EU party would win, but in the end, 60% voted against austerity and against the EU.
What happened after THAT was a different story!
A vote to depart could be used as a stick to negotiate not a full departure from the EU, but a better deal for the UK. “There is only one way to get the change we need, and that is to vote to go, because all EU history shows that they only really listen to a population when it says ‘No,'” Boris Johnson wrote. “It is time to seek a new relationship, in which we manage to extricate ourselves from most of the supranational elements.”
www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2016/03/16/boris-johnson-exclusive-there-i
s-only-one-way-to-get-the-change/
The measure Britons just voted for was an advisory not a mandatory referendum, meaning that it is not legally binding on the government. The prime minister is not required by the outcome to trigger Article 50. And, despite what senior figures in the EU and its other states might say, there is no way for them to force the UK to invoke Article 50.
http://jackofkent.com/2016/06/five-legal-points-about-the-leave-victor
y/
There is some wiggle room for a new government to try to find a compromise arrangement that would satisfy a larger share of the population than just the slim majority of voters who demanded separation.
Only about 160 of the 650 MPs elected last year want Britain to leave the EU. The overwhelming majority of Westminster MPs believes that leaving would be a mistake. Many believe it would be a very grave mistake. Not a few believe it would be calamitous. This experiment in direct democracy is hurtling towards a tradition of representative democracy like some giant asteroid towards a moon.
www.thetimes.co.uk/_TP_/article/pity-voters-deceived-by-the-pied-piper
s-of-brexit-vz3hpfm9x
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My understanding is that EU officials are now telling UK officials "Leave, and make it snappy"
I don't think that the majority of UK voters would tolerate being ignored by their government, and at the same time it seems that EU bureaucrats don't want to dicker with the UK either. So any move to repair the EU and ignore the vote looks likely to end in tears.
I think people have been bamboozled into feeling that being "international" is cool and it feels like humanitarianism ... or solidarity ... or something ... but the reality is that there are no INTERNATIONAL democratic institutions to reflect their will. Right now, the only effect that people have - if any- is on their NATIONAL government, and if they give that up in favor of international authorities like the EU, they've simply given up any influence they might have had. Internationalism is a con job, really - just one more step into getting people to give up what influence they have over their government and putting themselves in thrall to something that doesn't listen to them at all. Look at the Greeks- they have been 100% unable to remove themselves from the yoke of the troika which is bleeding their economy dry. And it was designed that way.
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I'll tell you what I DON'T like about Trump: I think that he has never confronted either the international banking cartel, nor the CIA-State Dept multi-headed hydra, nor the military-industrial complex. The last person to confront them was JFK (BTW, ALL immigration was illegal under JFK) and look what happened to him.
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I thought these were funny ... Brexit. Grexit. Departugal. Italeave. Czechout. Oustria. Finish. Slovakout. Byegium.
also World’s 400 Richest People Lose $127 Billion on Brexit: Chart
Quote:
The world’s 400 richest people lost $127.4 billion Friday as global equity markets reeled from the news that British voters elected to leave the European Union. The billionaires lost 3.2 percent of their total net worth, bringing the combined sum to $3.9 trillion, according to the Bloomberg Billionaires Index. The biggest decline belonged to Europe’s richest person, Amancio Ortega, who lost more than $6 billion, while nine others dropped more than $1 billion, including Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos and Gerald Cavendish Grosvenor, the wealthiest person in the U.K.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-24/world-s-400-richest-
people-lose-127-billion-on-brexit-chart
I weep for them, I really .... Nah, who am I kidding? I'm still laughing hysterically.
But not to worry! The rich always have their interests taken care of! I'm sure the central banks will yak up more money to keep stock prices high. --------------
I'll tell you what I DON'T like about Trump: I think that he has never confronted either the international banking cartel, nor the CIA-State Dept multi-headed hydra, nor the military-industrial complex. The last person to confront them was JFK (BTW, ALL immigration was illegal under JFK) and look what happened to him.
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Quote:There is a Greek story that directly applies to Brexit:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
there are no INTERNATIONAL democratic institutions to reflect their will. Right now, the only effect that people have - if any- is on their NATIONAL government . . . Look at the Greeks- they have been 100% unable to remove themselves from the yoke of the troika which is bleeding their economy dry. And it was designed that way.
On 5 July 2015, the bailout referendum took place. Finance Minister Varoufakis had campaigned vigorously in favour of the 'No' vote, (No to the troika) against the united support for the 'Yes' of Greece's media and of Europe's leadership. To make his position clear, he declared on television that he would resign as Finance Minister if Greeks voted 'Yes'. The outcome of the vote was a resounding 61.5% vote in favour of 'No'. Varoufakis went on television, soon after the result was announced, to celebrate the Greeks' outstanding courage and to declare that the government was determined to honour this new mandate for a sensible, honourable agreement with its creditors. However, a few hours later, late into the night, Varoufakis resigned. In his resignation statement the following morning he said: that "other European participants" had expressed a wish for his absence. Later he explained that he decided to resign during a meeting with the Prime Minister, on the night of the referendum, during which he discovered that the Prime Minister, instead of being energised by the "No" vote, declared to Varoufakis his decision to acquiesce to the troika's terms. Unwilling to sign such a "surrender" document, Varoufakis chose to resign.
His explanation, published later by Harry Lambert, New Statesman, 13 July 2015, was this: "I’m not going to betray my own view, that I honed back in 2010, that this country must stop extending and pretending, we must stop taking on new loans pretending that we’ve solved the problem, when we haven’t; when we have made our debt even less sustainable on condition of further austerity that even further shrinks the economy; and shifts the burden further onto the have nots, creating a humanitarian crisis. It’s something I’m not going to accept, I’m not going to be party to."
On Friday 14 August, the government (without Varoufakis) pushed successfully through Parliament the 3rd Greek bailout agreement - the one that Varoufakis had described as a surrender document. The bailout Bill received 222 votes to 64 (as the conservative opposition voted in favour).
Varoufakis said that the UK should remain in the EU, but also campaign to democratise it: "My message is simple yet rich: those of us who disdain the democratic deficit in Brussels, those of us who detest the authoritarianism of a technocracy which is incompetent and contemptuous of democracy, those of us who are most critical of Europe have a moral duty to stay in Europe, fight for it, and democratise it." On 9 February 2016, Varoufakis launched the Democracy in Europe Movement 2025 (DiEM25) at the Volksbühne in Berlin.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanis_Varoufakis
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Quote:I love the satirical headline:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
World’s 400 Richest People Lose $127 Billion on Brexit: ChartQuote:
The world’s 400 richest people lost $127.4 billion Friday as global equity markets reeled from the news that British voters elected to leave the European Union.
Queen Elizabeth Screaming At Stockbroker To Dump Everything
www.theonion.com/article/queen-elizabeth-screaming-stockbroker-dump-ev
eryth-53157
also:
Americans Confused By System Of Government In Which Leader Would Resign After Making Terrible Decision
www.theonion.com/article/americans-confused-system-government-which-le
ader--53156
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Yes, the "Bremain" contingent ... of which there are many ... could always try to undo the vote. It worked in Greece, despite a resounding percentage in the opposite direction, did it not?
BTW, I listened to a couple of Varoufakis speeches about what was going on in the background. There were many interesting points in it, Varoufakis actually knew that the EC would shut the Greek banks and he had a plan for that (banking thru the Greek IRS system instead) and he also had a secret weapon in his negotiations (haircutting the bonds held by Germany, long story). But he was absolutely savaged by the EU press, and in the end he was stabbed in the back - as were many Greeks- by their Prime Minister Tsipras.
Among other things he said that the European Parliament (which is elected) is only a confirming body, they can only approve of laws crafted by the European Commission. So, as he said, the democratic body can't make decisions, and the deciding body isn't democratic.
Both the EC and the European Central Bank were designed to be run by "technocrats" .... the ECB specifically when crafting its monetary policy is mostly immune to the cries and sighs of the various Finance Ministers of the EU, altho the ECB DOES bend to the German Finance Minister. As Varoufakis said "They treat Finance Ministers like vermin". That's how the ECB was able to impose a regime of "austerity" on its member states, despite the needs of the individual member states for a more realistic policy, which created a significant downturn in the EU economy (which I predicted at the time).
All this as specific examples why "internationalism" is a con job. "Internationalism", in all of its aspects so far, is non-democratic.
Other examples are the "free trade" deals (NAFTA, CAFTA, TTIP, TPP), which remove authority from elected national governments on economic, copyright, environmental, labor, and other policies, and grant those decisions to a council of international trade lawyers who represent only international businesses. Just like the EU, it puts those decisions out of the hands of the people and into the hands of the unelected/ non-representative.
People who desire "internationalism" out of some vague feeling of humanitarianism have completely abdicated their ability to influence policy. Which will be decided, not by some equally vague international humanitarian feeling, but by the banks and international corporations.
Thanks for the articles from The Onion, they were great!
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I'll tell you what I DON'T like about Trump: I think that he has never confronted either the international banking cartel, nor the CIA-State Dept multi-headed hydra, nor the military-industrial complex. The last person to confront them was JFK (BTW, ALL immigration was illegal under JFK) and look what happened to him.
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Curiously, Brexit may also spell the end of the UK, as Scotland and N Ireland agitate for the independence they would need to snuggle back into the bosom of the EU.
All of that will take a while ... at least a year to gain independence, and another few years while the EU mulls over these new accessions.
In the meantime, the next vote to watch is THIS SUNDAY, as the Unidos Podemos Party may gain a solid boost from the Brexit vote, and overturn Rajoy's right-center caretaker government. Unidos Podemos is an anti-austerity political party. Let's hope they don't have any Tsipras-styled traitors in their midst.
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I'll tell you what I DON'T like about Trump: I think that he has never confronted either the international banking cartel, nor the CIA-State Dept multi-headed hydra, nor the military-industrial complex. The last person to confront them was JFK (BTW, ALL immigration was illegal under JFK) and look what happened to him.
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A petition calling for another referendum on whether Britain should stay in the European Union has now received at least 2.5 million signatures — a level that means it must now be debated by British politicians. It was apparently so popular that the British Parliament's website, where the petition was hosted, briefly crashed.
Quote:https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215
We the undersigned call upon HM Government to implement a rule that if the remain or leave vote is less than 60% based a turnout less than 75% there should be another referendum.
The drive for a new referendum is coming from those who had hoped to "remain" in the E.U. Thursday's referendum was fairly close — the "leave" vote won with just 51.9 percent. And so the petition for a new referendum suggests there should be a rule that in referendums with less than 75 percent turnout (Thursday's vote was 72.2 percent), there should be another referendum unless a decision is reached by more than 60 percent of those voting.
www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/06/25/more-than-1-6-mil
lion-brits-signed-a-petition-for-another-referendum-they-shouldnt-hold-their-breath/
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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