My 10 year old in some FF related trouble
POSTED BY: JustDavid
UPDATED: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 21:57
VIEWED: 20544
PAGE 1 of 1
My 10 year old daughter, Leita, is on spring break right now and while I'm at work she stays at the child care program at her school. Yesterday when I went to pick her up, the woman in charge pulls me aside to explain that Leita was in some trouble earlier. Apparently there were some older girls that were picking on her and she got angry and called one of them a "ta ma de." Now no one there (except Leita) knows what that means, but she did confess that it was cussing in another language. The woman in charge said she would just leave any punishment for this up to me. On the way home Leita asked if I was mad, I said no, then she asked if I was dissapointed in her, and I said no and as long as she understood that she shouldn't do that again then we'll just let the whole thing go. But behind my poker face I'm thinking "WOO HOO! My daughter got in trouble for cussin' in chinese! How cool is that?!"
Maybe in a few years I can let her in on how I really felt.
"Light it."
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Okay... I'm just so proud of you for keeping the "WOO HOO" contained....
I don't think I could have done it.
==================
Every well-bred petty crook knows that the small concealable weapons always go to the far left of the place setting.
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I probably would have burst out laughing but good for you for being the dad! Look at it this way, she's now officially bi-lingual!
I wonder if I can teach my three year old neice to say "ta ma de?" 
__________________________________
Butter is a tool, not an ingredient
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Great story JustDavid.
I have not had my children swear in Chinese yet, but they do say dong ma, bee jway, & mei mei. Kind of cool to hear them using Mandarin.
"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."
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Your daughter is the shiniest!
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Thank you, you put a much needed smile on my face today with that story 
----
"If you truly love the memory, you must set it free()!" -Me
"Also, I can kill you with my brain." -River
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Quote:
Originally posted by JustDavid:
she got angry and called one of them a "ta ma de."
I dunno. Even if no one else understands it, it's a "really bad" phrase for a 10 year old to say. Does she fully understands what it means?
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yes, very cool excpet she didn't really cuss anybody out...she said "Ta ma De (or) Duh" depending on your accent. but what she really said was.. " F*** me blind"
Tell her to say "Duh Ma" F*** you..or "do my" in engilsh pronounciation. next time she gets in a fight..ok.. Dong Ma?"
yes i know saying Dong ma is " you understand?"
and ta MA duh is f' ME blind keep in mind that the way you say it determines the actuall word. look for chineese translations on this site to learn about the 1,2,3,4 differnet ways to say one word..
Peace..
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Don't know where you got your translations from, but "Ta Ma de..." literally translates to Your/His/Her mama... but used in the same sense and generality as "F*ck" or "S*it"...
Kid 10 year old using that kind of language in China also stands around on the corner of the block smoking and beating each other up. If I catch my kid even thinking anything like that, we are going to go thru the 12 pack of Irish Spring before we are done.
Quote:
Originally posted by Tomtba2004:
yes, very cool excpet she didn't really cuss anybody out...she said "Ta ma De (or) Duh" depending on your accent. but what she really said was.. " F*** me blind"
Tell her to say "Duh Ma" F*** you..or "do my" in engilsh pronounciation. next time she gets in a fight..ok.. Dong Ma?"
yes i know saying Dong ma is " you understand?"
and ta MA duh is f' ME blind keep in mind that the way you say it determines the actuall word. look for chineese translations on this site to learn about the 1,2,3,4 differnet ways to say one word..
Peace..
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tomtba2004:
but what she really said was.. " F*** me blind"
Actually, doesn't it translate more closely to "F*** your mother."
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Very cool
Cussing in chinese is great - I'm sure those kids giving her a hard time were pretty surprised.
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Quote:She's aware of the english translation, but I'm pretty sure she thinks of it as "extremely bad words" rather than the literal implication.
Originally posted by Haken:
I dunno. Even if no one else understands it, it's a "really bad" phrase for a 10 year old to say. Does she fully understands what it means?
Quote:I fully support a parent's right to choose the methods they think are best for their child. In this case, I'm very satisfied with how I handled it.
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
If I catch my kid even thinking anything like that, we are going to go thru the 12 pack of Irish Spring before we are done.
Just for a little background, Leita is very intelligent (think Simon) and very emotional and caring about the people around her (think Kaylee). She never uses swear words, and is very big on following the rules. After this happened instead of thinking "will I get punished," her reaction was "what will dad's emotions be?" I would be completely amazed if something like this happened a second time.
Now, when I was first told what happened, if I had laughed and blurted out what I was thinking ("That's totally cool! What'd she say? Tell me all about it! Oh, I've got to tell my friends about this!") then I could see where I might be sending the wrong message.
"Light it."
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I wanted to respond to all the kind words too.
Jentle & Suenos - thanks for noting how hard it can be sometimes to balance intense Firefly fandom with good parenting.
Browncoat1 - thanks, and I think focusing on the "clean" chinese is probably best.
Lindley - thanks, I completely agree.
Sigmanunki - glad I could help (Teela once did the same for me).
Sasja - I bet so, too. Good thing they didn't get a translation or I probably get some unhappy parent phone calls.
"Light it."
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I feel compelled to hope that the teacher had a talk with the parents of the little bullies as well!
Seems to me that swearing in an imperfectly understood foreign language is hardly an offense at all, while pushing around younger children is very serious...
JMPO
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Not exactly necessarily, only in specific context.
Ta Ma De is really a lot more everyday generic utterance. When you direct it at someone, then it's something different.
You might be thinking of...
Gan Ni Ma De Chou Bi....
F* your mama's stinkin' ... well whatever...
Quote:
Originally posted by Haken:Quote:
Originally posted by Tomtba2004:
but what she really said was.. " F*** me blind"
Actually, doesn't it translate more closely to "F*** your mother."
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Quote:
Originally posted by embers:
I feel compelled to hope that the teacher had a talk with the parents of the little bullies as well!
Seems to me that swearing in an imperfectly understood foreign language is hardly an offense at all, while pushing around younger children is very serious...
JMPO
good point!
btw--i really like your daughter's name!
~lissa, spwhore
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Quote:
Originally posted by JustDavid:Quote:She's aware of the english translation, but I'm pretty sure she thinks of it as "extremely bad words" rather than the literal implication.
Originally posted by Haken:
I dunno. Even if no one else understands it, it's a "really bad" phrase for a 10 year old to say. Does she fully understands what it means?Quote:I fully support a parent's right to choose the methods they think are best for their child. In this case, I'm very satisfied with how I handled it.
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
If I catch my kid even thinking anything like that, we are going to go thru the 12 pack of Irish Spring before we are done.
I fully agree with you. As for others who do nothing, exploits them, or gets carried away indulging them, I disagree.
Quote:
Originally posted by JustDavid:
Just for a little background, Leita is very intelligent (think Simon) and very emotional and caring about the people around her (think Kaylee). She never uses swear words, and is very big on following the rules. After this happened instead of thinking "will I get punished," her reaction was "what will dad's emotions be?" I would be completely amazed if something like this happened a second time.
Well... as my kids' Kteacher would put it so diplomatically (When we were applying our kids for the Magnet program) "A lot of parents think their kids are super bright"... Most kids *are* "bright" , "intelligent", "smart", they need the guidance, structure, and roles that parents can provide. Sounds like you are doing it. What I usually do is build some lessons and roleplay - have some fun and build confidence. Leita did what she did b/c she didn't have an existing library of responses for that situation. In addition to academics and other things, one way of building up social skills and life skills is to practice role-playing situations. Having them around other kids alot is good but not good enough - they end up learning and picking up strange behaviours from other kids who are just as clueless. (People are crying out now: boo, hiss. "let them experiement and learn on their own"). I say, role-play with them on different situations and what the responses might be - send them off with some recipes to start off with and dabble around.
Quote:
Originally posted by JustDavid:
Now, when I was first told what happened, if I had laughed and blurted out what I was thinking ("That's totally cool! What'd she say? Tell me all about it! Oh, I've got to tell my friends about this!") then I could see where I might be sending the wrong message.
"Light it."
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Didn't see JustDavid describe actual physical pushing. IAC, most schools nowadays have an overly excessive "one strike" rule on kids getting physical on each other - not just hitting. Our school has a "no touch" policy - keep your hands to yourself or you are out. Bit excessive.
IAC, if Leita had blurted out "Oh yeah, Yo Mama".
It would have been ok? I believe she understands that's what the phrase to mean (It's not what it means, but that's how she used it)...
Quote:
Originally posted by embers:
I feel compelled to hope that the teacher had a talk with the parents of the little bullies as well!
Seems to me that swearing in an imperfectly understood foreign language is hardly an offense at all, while pushing around younger children is very serious...
JMPO
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just sayin'... Most 10 year olds, let alone girls, DON'T stand up for themselves. Gotta say, you're daughter was right to do so. And BTW you must be doing something right to have such a great girl.
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GAN!
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Ghoulman,
something else I don't understand. People often congratulate each other as to "having a great kid". Is that in the possessive sense or an associative sense? (BTW, I hope it's more than that) IMHO, most parents don't provide hell of a lot more than "having' them around - well, other than providing them food, shelter, clothes, and entertainment. Sure, lots of other parents provide (or have no ability to) even less than the "basics". Seems to me that many people "have" kids just for the kicks: they are cute, everyone is having one, it makes my heart warm - or sometimes it was an accident and now I've got to owe up to it and take the responsibility.
Good Grief.
Maybe there's more to it than that. But I guess if people can barely keep the cupboards full and keep themselves entertained, they can hardly really provide comfort and structure for "people to be".
Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
just sayin'... Most 10 year olds, let alone girls, DON'T stand up for themselves. Gotta say, you're daughter was right to do so. And BTW you must be doing something right to have such a great girl.
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well Duh ma ma is "f your mom"
again look at the tone in which you say
ba ba is generaly dad an ma ma is mom
Ta ma Duh is f me blind says every translation i found. or it sounds like you are saying "Do my my" plus the wierd throat thing your suppoed to do. it is manderain chinese. you actually have to hear it to get it.
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I'm sorry, new to here or not I think this is a terrible example and nothing to be proud of.
A 10 year old cussing is not a good thing. A 10 year old dealing with conflict regardless of why they were by cussing them out (in Chinese or not) isn't the way someone should be taught to deal with conflict. Life is filled with conflict often unwanted and learning to deal with it in a constructive manner is what seperates those people who are going to be successful in life. Yes I think that the actions and habits of children shape them and strongly influence who they become as adults.
A parent thinking it's cool their child knows Chinese cuss words and uses them probably should be watching less TV and spending more time with their kids in a more positive environment.
If this had been me and my child I would be doing some soul searching now where I had gone astray and how I might set a better example in the future.
I think Firefly was a great story arc and wonderful entertainment but I don't think it's a good example for my children to learn life lessons from.
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Personally I think exchanging insults, and occasionally swearwords is a normal part of human life. I also think Fangoo needs to back down a bit here, let others raise their children as they see fit.
I admit, I'm a few years off from being in that age group, but as I recall most of us swore at some point or other> Kids do that. And no, I wasn't a "hanging out on the corner smoking cigarettes" kind of kid. But at that age it's natural for a kid to pick up some bad words and experiment with using them. The important thing isn't that the kid never learns to swear, it's how a parent reacts to it, how a parent teaches the child that it isn't appropriate in most circumstances to use that kind of language.
once the snow got so deep you almost couldn't hear margaret atwood
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Ur... Where did "De ma ma" get translated
into "f your mom"... I think you are mixing
literal word for word translation with
translating an equivalent phrase.
"De ma ma" by itself only means " 's mom" and you can't really use it by itself. "Ni de ma ma" literally means "Your mother" and "Ta de ma ma" means "His/Her mother" ... Now you can certainly use "Ni de ma ma" as a curse word if you use it within the right context and phrase it in a particular way - actually "Ni ma ma" or "Ni ma" would be more appropriately the style - short and terse.
Quote:
Originally posted by Tomtba2004:
well Duh ma ma is "f your mom"
again look at the tone in which you say
ba ba is generaly dad an ma ma is mom
Ta ma Duh is f me blind says every translation i found. or it sounds like you are saying "Do my my" plus the wierd throat thing your suppoed to do.
ok. maybe you can point out where you found that translation...
But here translates it as "Oh Shit" (like I said, a general "F*ck" or "S*it" utterance ).
http://www.insultmonger.com/swearing/mandarin.htm
There is no way to translate "Ta ma de". It's how it is used. "Ta ma de" is used as a general expletive utterance. You can translate it to many of the equivalent English type utterance.
"F*ck!" , "S*it", "Holy Cow!", "Holy S*it".
"F*ck a Duck!", "F*ck me!" ... You can't take it as the literal meaning in either language.
Take "Holy Cow" for instance, you wouldn't necessarily translate it as "Xing Niu" - which is a perfectly good word for word translation - as
Xing = Holy, Saintly
Niu = The Dairy animal.
But the equivalent phrase in Chinese could probably be "Ta ma de"
Quote:
Originally posted by Tomtba2004:
it is manderain chinese. you actually have to hear it to get it.
Yeah, it is Mandarin Chinese. And that doesn't make any sense for what you are translating.
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Agree with you 110% there Fangoo... Every single word of it.
Quote:
Originally posted by Fangoo:
I'm sorry, new to here or not I think this is a terrible example and nothing to be proud of.
A 10 year old cussing is not a good thing. A 10 year old dealing with conflict regardless of why they were by cussing them out (in Chinese or not) isn't the way someone should be taught to deal with conflict. Life is filled with conflict often unwanted and learning to deal with it in a constructive manner is what seperates those people who are going to be successful in life. Yes I think that the actions and habits of children shape them and strongly influence who they become as adults.
A parent thinking it's cool their child knows Chinese cuss words and uses them probably should be watching less TV and spending more time with their kids in a more positive environment.
If this had been me and my child I would be doing some soul searching now where I had gone astray and how I might set a better example in the future.
I think Firefly was a great story arc and wonderful entertainment but I don't think it's a good example for my children to learn life lessons from.
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Sorry, a lot of things regular every day people do in regular every day life do is not appropriate for kids. I can think of about a hundred things without spending too much effort.
I too do swear when it is appropriate to be expressive in the right environment. I think society nowadays a bit too free with swear words - we really can stand to learn a bit more words to express our feelings and emotions.
I agree with you that kids/people will learn all of these things - when the time is appropriate and when they have the proper basis to deal with it. Maybe just not rightaway...
Quote:
Originally posted by thefop:
Personally I think exchanging insults, and occasionally swearwords is a normal part of human life. I also think Fangoo needs to back down a bit here, let others raise their children as they see fit.
I admit, I'm a few years off from being in that age group, but as I recall most of us swore at some point or other> Kids do that. And no, I wasn't a "hanging out on the corner smoking cigarettes" kind of kid. But at that age it's natural for a kid to pick up some bad words and experiment with using them. The important thing isn't that the kid never learns to swear, it's how a parent reacts to it, how a parent teaches the child that it isn't appropriate in most circumstances to use that kind of language.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Agree with you 110% there Fangoo... Every single word of it.Quote:
Originally posted by Fangoo:
I'm sorry, new to here or not I think this is a terrible example and nothing to be proud of.
A 10 year old cussing is not a good thing. A 10 year old dealing with conflict regardless of why they were by cussing them out (in Chinese or not) isn't the way someone should be taught to deal with conflict. Life is filled with conflict often unwanted and learning to deal with it in a constructive manner is what seperates those people who are going to be successful in life. Yes I think that the actions and habits of children shape them and strongly influence who they become as adults.
A parent thinking it's cool their child knows Chinese cuss words and uses them probably should be watching less TV and spending more time with their kids in a more positive environment.
If this had been me and my child I would be doing some soul searching now where I had gone astray and how I might set a better example in the future.
I think Firefly was a great story arc and wonderful entertainment but I don't think it's a good example for my children to learn life lessons from.
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I think this very up-tight stand on swear words is someting uniquely American, and something I never quite understood (maybe being a European?). Movies can get a higher rating for the word "fuck" than for having people's heads chopped off! I'm not in any doubt as to what I'd think would be more disturbing for my kid to watch.
While some things that are appropriate for adults aren't so for children, they're inappropriate for good reasons: alcohol and cigarettes (can cause irrepairable damage at a crucial stage in a human's growth), sex (for obvious reasons) etc. Why would swearing fall in this category? It's not really harmful in any way I can see, and can be a very effective form of communication. Describe to yourself in general terms a situation where cursing would be appropriate - why couldn't a child find herself in such a situation? Hoping not to offend (too much
), could it be that you wish your children to be picture perfect little angels rather than growing persons, living their own - sometimes quite tough - lives? Of course, too much swearing (for adults and children alike) will impair a person's ability to express herself and is frowned upon by society in general. Children need to learn the social rules for swearing just like they need to learn a million other rules for interaction. If your child seems to have a problem in this respect, action needs to be taken. But it seems to me, from what we've heard, that Leita is quite on top of that.
Lastly, talking about things inappropriate, I think passing harsh judgements on people's parental skills - "(you) probably should be watching less TV and spending more time with (your) kids in a more positive environment." - on the basis of a disagreement about swearing is not the best example to set. Feel free to express your opinions, and do your best to respect others' right to do the same.
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Quote:
Originally posted by sasja:Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Agree with you 110% there Fangoo... Every single word of it.Quote:
Originally posted by Fangoo:
I'm sorry, new to here or not I think this is a terrible example and nothing to be proud of.
A 10 year old cussing is not a good thing. A 10 year old dealing with conflict regardless of why they were by cussing them out (in Chinese or not) isn't the way someone should be taught to deal with conflict. Life is filled with conflict often unwanted and learning to deal with it in a constructive manner is what seperates those people who are going to be successful in life. Yes I think that the actions and habits of children shape them and strongly influence who they become as adults.
A parent thinking it's cool their child knows Chinese cuss words and uses them probably should be watching less TV and spending more time with their kids in a more positive environment.
If this had been me and my child I would be doing some soul searching now where I had gone astray and how I might set a better example in the future.
I think Firefly was a great story arc and wonderful entertainment but I don't think it's a good example for my children to learn life lessons from.
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I think this very up-tight stand on swear words is someting uniquely American, and something I never quite understood (maybe being a European?). Movies can get a higher rating for the word "fuck" than for having people's heads chopped off! I'm not in any doubt as to what I'd think would be more disturbing for my kid to watch.
You get no arguments from me here. I think kids should get exposure to neither until they are ready for it. Ready to absorb it, ready to discuss it, ready to understand it, and ready to relate to it.
Quote:
Originally posted by sasja:
While some things that are appropriate for adults aren't so for children, they're inappropriate for good reasons: alcohol and cigarettes (can cause damage at a crucial stage in a human's growth), sex (for obvious reasons) etc. Why would swearing fall in this category? It's not really harmful in any way I can see, and can be a very effective form of communication. Describe to yourself in general terms a situation where cursing would be appropriate - why couldn't a child find herself in such a situation? Hoping not to offend (too much
No, people get to spend about 2/3 of their lives being adults. Kids should be kids (not necessarily perfect angels) - kids should have the time to grow up at their own pace and not have the world thrust upon them. Kids have it tough enough trying to understand everything else going on around them. Sooner or later, we all get to learn what the real world is about. If they get another couple of years of not having to think about or worry about the real world out there and get to play with their lego blocks a couple more years - fine. That's another couple of years that we can spend building a better foundation for a couple of better people - maybe a bit more ready for the real world.
Will you drag your pre-toddlers by the arms and get them to run before they are even ready to crawl? After all, regular people walk everyday - and there isn't harm in walking. How about eating solid food when their digestive system isn't ready for it? Everybody eats solid food, so what's the harm in that? They are developmentally ready for it. Some things kids might not be physically ready for, other things they aren't mentally ready for, yet other things they aren't psychologically ready for. Learning the right basis and the right options can make a world of a
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FWIW(and hoping this post isn't redundant), "Ta ma de" is a fragment of an obscene phrase, much like saying "What the-" or "Son of a-". The uttered portion itself translates(literally) as "his/her mother's-"(in the possessive sense). I never got a straight answer from any of my Chinese friends as to what the unspoken portion was, but I think we can make a pretty good guess...mine: something decidedly anatomical. I base this on the fact that there's no shortage of similarly crude and personal anatomical references in Putonghua(mainland vernacular) that are considered unacceptable outside of the "nanzi han"(read: male-chauvinist-pig drinking buddies). But I did hear "Ta ma de" uttered in mixed company under circs of extreme frustration.
But then, my Chinese was never better than your average 4-year-old's, and now it's nearly all gone. Except for the dirty words, of course...
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:Quote:
Originally posted by sasja:
While some things that are appropriate for adults aren't so for children, they're inappropriate for good reasons: alcohol and cigarettes (can cause damage at a crucial stage in a human's growth), sex (for obvious reasons) etc. Why would swearing fall in this category? It's not really harmful in any way I can see, and can be a very effective form of communication. Describe to yourself in general terms a situation where cursing would be appropriate - why couldn't a child find herself in such a situation? Hoping not to offend (too much
No, people get to spend about 2/3 of their lives being adults. Kids should be kids (not necessarily perfect angels) - kids should have the time to grow up at their own pace and not have the world thrust upon them. Kids have it tough enough trying to understand everything else going on around them. Sooner or later, we all get to learn what the real world is about. If they get another couple of years of not having to think about or worry about the real world out there and get to play with their lego blocks a couple more years - fine.
I think this picture builds on the misconception that while children play with lego blocks their lives are full of bliss and they essentially have no worries. The real world is thrust upon them from day one, and rejection, hierarchy among playmates, bullying etc is everyday life even for pre school kids. Our job as parents is to help, support and guide them through these problems.
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
That's another couple of years that we can spend building a better foundation for a couple of better people - maybe a bit more ready for the real world.
Will you drag your pre-toddlers by the arms and get them to run before they are even ready to crawl? After all, regular people walk everyday - and there isn't harm in walking. How about eating solid food when their digestive system isn't ready for it? Everybody eats solid food, so what's the harm in that? They are developmentally ready for it.
Err, no, they're exactly not developmentally ready for it. And that's why I wouldn't do it.
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Some things kids might not be physically ready for, other things they aren't mentally ready for, yet other things they aren't psychologically ready for. Learning the right basis and the right options can make a world of a difference.
Why should every kid have to thrash around trying to figure out the right answer in every situation? Yes, I agree, kids should learn on their own. Again, give them some boundaries and recipes to start from. Not only can they learn quicker and figure things out better.
I perfectly agree. I don't see how this leads you to think that swearing is inappropriate for 10-years olds.
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Originally posted by Jasonzzz:Quote:
Originally posted by sasja:
Of course, too much swearing (for adults and children alike) will impair a person's ability to express herself and is frowned upon by society in general. Children need to learn the rules for swearing just like they need to learn a million other rules for interaction. If your child seems to have a problem in this respect, action needs to be taken. But it seems to me, from what we've heard, that Leita is quite on top of that.
Not sure what we are on top of... that she didn't have a way to express herself in that situation and ended up blurting out something she heard on TV without quite knowing what it is?
She did have a way of expressing herself. And (assuming the circumstances were such that they warranted a good cussin') an appropiate way. The fact that she usually never swears, but reserves it for special situations, like when she's bullied by a group of older children, tells me she
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Doing it in a language foreign to her tormentors is just more elegant and effective - not to mention cool
This was actually part of my point (from far above): swearing in a foreign language
when your listeners have no idea what you said
has always been a socially acceptable way around the 'no cursing' rule:
That is why Joss could do it on TV!
That is why Jewish comedians used so much Yiddish.
The fact is that swearing in a foreign language does not function in the same way as saying it in a common language...
it is not inflamatory, it is only a curiosity...
Fact is if this young lady hadn't been so honest she could have gotten away with telling her teacher that it was a nonsense phrase and meant nothing at all...
So, okay, we want to teach children what is 'right' and keep them good an pure...
But I've never met a two year old yet who hasn't learned to say the most horrible things when they over-heard their parent get scalded, or break something...
I still hold that bullying is the worse crime.
And by saying 'pushing around' I meant: intimidation, tormenting, or as it was originally put 'picking on'.
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I agree that as parents, we need to guide and direct our children, I think any parent will agree w/ that fact.
I don't believe, or see any statement to inforce the belief, that JustDave encouraged his daughter to swear at another person, or that he told his daughter he thought it acceptable behavior. He did mention he found it interesting she knew the phrase, but I think it was more out of his attachment to Firefly than any sort of shortcoming on his part as a parent.
I am sure that JustDave is as good a parent as any on this board. One should be careful not to read too much out of so simple a post at that which started this thread. Being critical of assumed faults in someone else's parenting style is unworthy of the posters on this board.
I think that as parents we are obligated to do all we can to guide our children and mold them into responsible adults who will contribute to society. I screen what my children watch, what they do, etc, but unfortunately I (and any other parent) can not be by their child's side 24 hours a day. They see and hear things in school, on the bus, on TV, and from friends and family that we may are not able to filter. We have to trust and encourage our children to talk to us about everything, let them know we will listen and care. Without communication, no one can effectively parent.
"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."
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you are correct... "Ta ma de" would be considered a fragment in the grammatical sense. But it's always uttered standalone - sometimes leaving you with a feeling that it does indeed is spoken with ellipses at the end and leading to something else, other times it just is.
BTW, you seem to reference Putonghua and Mandarin as if there is a difference between them?
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Originally posted by Bourne:
FWIW(and hoping this post isn't redundant), "Ta ma de" is a fragment of an obscene phrase, much like saying "What the-" or "Son of a-". The uttered portion itself translates(literally) as "his/her mother's-"(in the possessive sense). I never got a straight answer from any of my Chinese friends as to what the unspoken portion was, but I think we can make a pretty good guess...mine: something decidedly anatomical. I base this on the fact that there's no shortage of similarly crude and personal anatomical references in Putonghua(mainland vernacular) that are considered unacceptable outside of the "nanzi han"(read: male-chauvinist-pig drinking buddies). But I did hear "Ta ma de" uttered in mixed company under circs of extreme frustration.
But then, my Chinese was never better than your average 4-year-old's, and now it's nearly all gone. Except for the dirty words, of course...
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Quote:
Originally posted by sasja:Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:Quote:
Originally posted by sasja:
While some things that are appropriate for adults aren't so for children, they're inappropriate for good reasons: alcohol and cigarettes (can cause damage at a crucial stage in a human's growth), sex (for obvious reasons) etc. Why would swearing fall in this category? It's not really harmful in any way I can see, and can be a very effective form of communication. Describe to yourself in general terms a situation where cursing would be appropriate - why couldn't a child find herself in such a situation? Hoping not to offend (too much
No, people get to spend about 2/3 of their lives being adults. Kids should be kids (not necessarily perfect angels) - kids should have the time to grow up at their own pace and not have the world thrust upon them. Kids have it tough enough trying to understand everything else going on around them. Sooner or later, we all get to learn what the real world is about. If they get another couple of years of not having to think about or worry about the real world out there and get to play with their lego blocks a couple more years - fine.
I think this picture builds on the misconception that while children play with lego blocks their lives are full of bliss and they essentially have no worries. The real world is thrust upon them from day one, and rejection, hierarchy among playmates, bullying etc is everyday life even for pre school kids. Our job as parents is to help, support and guide them through these problems.
No arguments from me. But let them "play lego blocks". Their lives might not be utterly and completely be full of bliss, but it's more bliss than a world full of pornography, violence, swearing, killing, murdering, bullying, terrorizing, and Enron scamming - none of which they understand nor have the ability to grasp. One lesson at a time. They get to learn it with the correct basis. They learn it thru cooperative competition. They learn it when they get hurt themselves that sometimes people get hurt. They learn it when their pet plants die that living things expire. Build up on small lessons.
For now, the lego blocks are fun, and they don't murder each other, curse at each other, or sneak off and have sex ... yet...
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Originally posted by sasja:Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
That's another couple of years that we can spend building a better foundation for a couple of better people - maybe a bit more ready for the real world.
Will you drag your pre-toddlers by the arms and get them to run before they are even ready to crawl? After all, regular people walk everyday - and there isn't harm in walking. How about eating solid food when their digestive system isn't ready for it? Everybody eats solid food, so what's the harm in that? They are developmentally ready for it.
Err, no, they're exactly not developmentally ready for it. And that's why I wouldn't do it.
exactly... plenty of things kids aren't ready for... not just *physically* developmentally, but *mentally* as well... They need small experiences to build their ideas and concepts on. People have sex everyday. But would kids be ready to watch pornography?
Quote:
Originally posted by sasja:Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Some things kids might not be physically ready for, other things they aren't mentally ready for, yet other things they aren't psychologically ready for. Learning the right basis and the right options can make a world of a difference.
Why should every kid have to thrash around trying to figure out the right answer in every situation? Yes, I agree, kids should learn on their own. Again, give them some boundaries and recipes to start from. Not only can they learn quicker and fNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
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Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
I agree that as parents, we need to guide and direct our children, I think any parent will agree w/ that fact.
I don't believe, or see any statement to inforce the belief, that JustDave encouraged his daughter to swear at another person, or that he told his daughter he thought it acceptable behavior. He did mention he found it interesting she knew the phrase, but I think it was more out of his attachment to Firefly than any sort of shortcoming on his part as a parent.
I am sure that JustDave is as good a parent as any on this board. One should be careful not to read too much out of so simple a post at that which started this thread. Being critical of assumed faults in someone else's parenting style is unworthy of the posters on this board.
I wouldn't assume that JustDavid is a *good* parent or a *bad* parent from just a couple of posts. My comments were just inline with the situation in general. Folks seem to think it's real cool and read all sorts of things on how responsible and intelligent the entire deal is. I don't see it either way from the entire thing being described in just two posts.
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Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
I think that as parents we are obligated to do all we can to guide our children and mold them into responsible adults who will contribute to society. I screen what my children watch, what they do, etc, but unfortunately I (and any other parent) can not be by their child's side 24 hours a day. They see and hear things in school, on the bus, on TV, and from friends and family that we may are not able to filter. We have to trust and encourage our children to talk to us about everything, let them know we will listen and care. Without communication, no one can effectively parent.
Buddy, I can't agree with you more... The first 5 years (before preschool) is so damn critical to lay down the ground work - enough so that they are ready to face the horde of humanity in preschool - I can't imagine leaving them alone one second to hired help or the TV to raise them. It's unfortunate in the US (I think it's mostly only in the US - although it's probably spreading to other countries as well) that parents (very frequently) no longer have a family support structure nearby and that with the competition "with the Joneses" leads to the kind of economic structure we have - the need to have 2 or 3 jobs between the 2 parents (worst when one is single-parenting, which leads off to another discussion)... Children are simply no longer prepared for learning at school. We end up relegating most of our entire parenting responsibilities to (if not the hired help) the school system. No wonder our teachers are frazzled and tired.
After the first 5 years, you have to let go a little at a time and teach them to learn, teach them the right responses and behaviours, teach them to make decisions and let them be themselves a little at a time. One thing at a time, one lesson at a time, when they are ready to do one thing, let them do it and build on that.
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Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."
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Quote:You're still missreading me. The point of the sentence was that I felt the parent was doing something 'right'. The rest is all over the place sociologically and would take about 1000 words to begin *chuckle*. I think you're posting far faster than I so forgive me if I don't have answers or post with alacrity.
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Ghoulman,
something else I don't understand. People often congratulate each other as to "having a great kid".
Obviously, I think it's just fine for kids to swear and cuss if it's appropriate (in another language just shows what a clever person this child is). I think this situation was appropriate. You might want to give your kids the 'turn the other cheek' lesson from Jesus but hey, look what happened to him.
Allegorically speaking...
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Ghoulman,
no biggie. each to their own.
Read my other post on Cowering, being cowed into submission. But basically, I believe neither in swearing nor cowing in this particular situation.
Numerous and far better options exist in between the rift of those two. And certainly no need to extend to physical violence. Although if there is no choice and it comes down to it, make sure that the other party is put to rest so the entire matter is settled as quickly and if possible as painlessly is possible.
I would have congratulate the kid if she had used one of the other smart aleck lines within the show - but my take here is swearing was either a "cop out" or just plain emotional reaction "blurted something out" - no matter than if she had belted them a good one.
Like I said before, for a small matter like this, the kid should have been better prepped and prepared to deal with the situatioin - far more civilized method. Other situation might call for swearing (I doubt it for a kid), but a kid should at least have enough confidence to *not* have to resort to swearing or physical threat or violence.
*But* do get them some preparation if it comes dow n to that, at least they would be confident in doing it - even if they shouldn't have to.
Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:Quote:You're still missreading me. The point of the sentence was that I felt the parent was doing something 'right'. The rest is all over the place sociologically and would take about 1000 words to begin *chuckle*. I think you're posting far faster than I so forgive me if I don't have answers or post with alacrity.
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Ghoulman,
something else I don't understand. People often congratulate each other as to "having a great kid".
Obviously, I think it's just fine for kids to swear and cuss if it's appropriate (in another language just shows what a clever person this child is). I think this situation was appropriate. You might want to give your kids the 'turn the other cheek' lesson from Jesus but hey, look what happened to him.
Allegorically speaking...
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Just wanted to say that Sasja & Embers have both done an excellent job of describing my feelings on this topic, and I completely agree with Browncoat1 regarding courtesy to others on this board.
Lissa, about the name Leita(pronounced leetuh, BTW), thanks. My mom originally came up with the spelling for my older sister.
"Light it."
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I think that some people are blowing this out of proportion.
1) She's 10!
2) She *is* exploring how to handle different situations.
3) The dad *did* make sure she knew it was wrong and *not* to do it again.
So then, what the big deal? Life is a continual learning process and she *has* learned. Some will teach there kids one way, others other ways. It doesn't mean that any one method is wrong, just different. His method seems appropriate for that particular child and that does *not* mean it is for every child.
For instance when my sister and I were growing up our parents would typically send me to my room from something for a little while, but, if my sister did the same thing she would be grounded for afew days or at least get into more trouble.
On first glance it would seem unfair to do this, but, I learned from my mistakes *alot* quicker than she did. So, when I did something stupid I need less of a... correction, as I just "got it", but, she needed more of a... motivation.
Anything beyond this is just a comment on JustDavid's person. I think that the "WOO HOO" is questionable, but, IMHO that isn't the issue here. It how he is raising his child, and again, IMHO, I don't see any problem with it.
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"Also, I can kill you with my brain." -River
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I would like to add that I think JustDavid does deserve credit for raising his daughter well:
1. she told the truth to her teacher (when I was 10 I was fully capable of lying and saying that I had just said some nonsense words with no meaning if I was caught in that situation).
2. she was concerned about disappointing her Father, showing that she deeply cares about earning and keeping his respect.
Obviously this little girl shows respect to adults and has good principles...
and Leita is a lovely name
------------------
eta: and clearly the 'woo hoo' was for the benefit of the community here at the board, who would understand the kick he got out of his child being so knowledgable about 'Firefly'...
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Kids are the people of the future. Each person can either make a difference or be a drain. They are not *just* little pink things to tickle and to pass the time. There are fun times, but we can't nearly take it seriously enough.
We can *all* learn, not just kids. Even good parents can learn to be even better parents. Not saying that anyone is doing it perfectly. It's like making spaghetti. There are couple of ways of ruining it - aside from that, there are no "wrong" ways. As long as it doesn't come out a pink mush, most people will probably agree it's alright - nothing spectacular, but ok. Now, you and I might have found a few tid bits along the way to make it better. Why not share it? You might decide to use it next time, you might not... It's up to you. It's sort of like that.
However, if something is done wrong. Pasta is burned, sauce is vinegary or some other crap. I will take offense. Why? B/C, kids, unlike spaghetti, we *all* have to live with some day.
I am offering nothing more than, "Hey, try some italian sausage bits in the sauce, maybe it'll work out better"
Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
I think that some people are blowing this out of proportion.
1) She's 10!
2) She *is* exploring how to handle different situations.
3) The dad *did* make sure she knew it was wrong and *not* to do it again.
I am not saying it's bad. I am saying maybe there could be more. Again, "Maybe a bit of Cumin? or a sprig of Rosemary" A suggestion. I am not going to come into your living room and grade you or make you do it my way.
Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
So then, what the big deal? Life is a continual learning process and she *has* learned. Some will teach there kids one way, others other ways. It doesn't mean that any one method is wrong, just different. His method seems appropriate for that particular child and that does *not* mean it is for every child.
I complete agree. Life is a continual learning process - for everyone. But it doesn't mean that we all have to go at it alone.
I don't think at any given time here I have assessed or judged JustDavid as wrong or inappropriate. That's not my intend and I don't believe I state anything in that way. Really, I tried to not assess the appropriateness at all. I stated plainly that I don't agree with kids 10 years old of age swearing - other than that...
IAC, like I said, it's an option that I see viable. I offered it - without judgement or assessment. I don't see any disrespect or uncivility in helping out a fellow human being - if something can be improved or you know a tidbit, I expect you to point it out, nothing less.
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Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
For instance when my sister and I were growing up our parents would typically send me to my room from something for a little while, but, if my sister did the same thing she would be grounded for afew days or at least get into more trouble.
On first glance it would seem unfair to do this, but, I learned from my mistakes *alot* quicker than she did. So, when I did something stupid I need less of a... correction, as I just "got it", but, she needed more of a... motivation.
I don't see anything here as a comment on JustDavid's person. lmk if you really think so.
I can see how people can see a little commenting or criticism and mistaking it as a judgement (and who really cares what another person thinks or judges you). Everyone is proud of their kids and everyone thinks their kid are the smartest/handsomest/prettiest/tallest/fastest/greatest.
Nothing should be further from the truth - as far as the parent's perception goes. But what we do is something different all together. What we do each very moment changes a little person's entire life. We can all do better, and that doesn't happen if we shut out criticisms and tidbits from others.
It's a community, I assumed that people come to be a part of one and not to go at it alone.
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you are correct... "Ta ma de" would be considered a fragment in the grammatical sense. But it's always uttered standalone - sometimes leaving you with a feeling that it does indeed is spoken with ellipses at the end and leading to something else, other times it just is.
Aside from the commonplace truncation of obscenities in English (e.g. "son of a-") which are clearly bitten off, there are far less obvious examples that appear to be "standalone" words/phrases, too. "Chicken" - as an accusation of cowardice - is one, as it was originally "chickenshit." Still is, in less polite company, though the non-scatological derivative is often accompanied by clucking noises, as if the reference were to the chicken itself.
People are funny that way.
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BTW, you seem to reference Putonghua and Mandarin as if there is a difference between them?
Yup. In the likely event of someone reading this who knows more about Chinese languages than I do, I wanted to be precise. As I alluded to parenthetically, "Putonghua"(literally "common speech") refers to the common spoken vernacular of mainland China. It is Mandarin, but I don't know if the slang, colloquialisms, etc used in Taiwan and other places are exactly the same as in the PRC. That phrase is probably the same in Taiwan - they've only been separated for 50-odd years - but I don't know for sure.
Sorry everybody else, if this was a little too far OT.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Kids are the people of the future. Each person can either make a difference or be a drain.
To be nit picky, there are those that are neither.
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
We can *all* learn, not just kids. Even good parents can learn to be even better parents. Not saying that anyone is doing it perfectly.
True, everyone *should* learn throughout there entire life. And all do to one extent or another.
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
It's like making spaghetti. There are couple of ways of ruining it - aside from that, there are no "wrong" ways. As long as it doesn't come out a pink mush, most people will probably agree it's alright - nothing spectacular, but ok.
Well, with todays society I'd say there are a whole bunch of ways to mess it up.
But, to your "nothing spectacular, but ok" comment. I disagree. That is too much an area of opinion. I mean, how you define ok or spectacular would differ greatly from the next guy. It really depends on the family/child's situation.
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Now, you and I might have found a few tid bits along the way to make it better. Why not share it? You might decide to use it next time, you might not... It's up to you. It's sort of like that.
You seem to think that I meant you when I posted. I never meant this to be an attack on you. My post was more of a comment that there was too much opinion going back and forth and things were kind of getting away from the basic facts of this particular situation.
If someone wanted to talk about parenting in general, IMHO, they should create a thread specifically for that.
I don't really like this spaghetti analogy. Too far off from what we are talking about. For me anyway.
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
I stated plainly that I don't agree with kids 10 years old of age swearing - other than that...
True, they shouldn't, but, they will. And there isn't anything that any of us can do about it. We can only - when it happens - deal with it appropriately. Which, IMHO, was done here.
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Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
...if something can be improved or you know a tidbit, I expect you to point it out, nothing less.
And I you.
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
It's a community, I assumed that people come to be a part of one and not to go at it alone.
I don't disagree one bit.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bourne:Quote:
BTW, you seem to reference Putonghua and Mandarin as if there is a difference between them?
Yup. In the likely event of someone reading this who knows more about Chinese languages than I do, I wanted to be precise. As I alluded to parenthetically, "Putonghua"(literally "common speech") refers to the common spoken vernacular of mainland China. It is Mandarin, but I don't know if the slang, colloquialisms, etc used in Taiwan and other places are exactly the same as in the PRC. That phrase is probably the same in Taiwan - they've only been separated for 50-odd years - but I don't know for sure.
Sorry everybody else, if this was a little too far OT.
I have never heard anyone make that particular distinction between the two before. It's always been in reference to the same thing to me - as in used interchangebly. Of course, Chinese from China (reference to both Mainland and Taiwan) would use "Putonghua" to reference especially the spoken language and "Zhongwen" for general reference to the entire language (but probably more times the written portion, hmm.. "Hanzi") - Mandarin is the English reference to the same deal.
I don't know, last I heard, the newest generation of folks from Taiwan are claiming they are *not* Chinese, but in fact, Taiwanese. Oddest thing to me, since the older generation has always claimed they were Chinese and the aboriginals are the Taiwanese folks. I don't know what these people are thinking anymore.
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I have never heard anyone make that particular distinction between the two before. It's always been in reference to the same thing to me - as in used interchangebly. Of course, Chinese from China (reference to both Mainland and Taiwan) would use Putonghua for the spoken language and Zhongwen for general reference to the entire language (but probably more times the written portion) - Mandarin is the English reference to the same deal.
You're right, except that ROC Chinese refer to "their" Mandarin as "guoyu" ("the national tongue"). Superficial usages aside, exactly the same language; the only meaningful distinction is political. I remember restraining my eyes from rolling when a teacher explained this to me. Kinda like renaming sauerkraut "liberty cabbage" during WWI.
Still, the Taiwanese are in a tough spot, politically. If I walked a mile in their shoes, I might wanna forget the past, too.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Kids are the people of the future. Each person can either make a difference or be a drain.
To be nit picky, there are those that are neither.Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
We can *all* learn, not just kids. Even good parents can learn to be even better parents. Not saying that anyone is doing it perfectly.
True, everyone *should* learn throughout there entire life. And all do to one extent or another.Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
It's like making spaghetti. There are couple of ways of ruining it - aside from that, there are no "wrong" ways. As long as it doesn't come out a pink mush, most people will probably agree it's alright - nothing spectacular, but ok.
Well, with todays society I'd say there are a whole bunch of ways to mess it up.
But, to your "nothing spectacular, but ok" comment. I disagree. That is too much an area of opinion. I mean, how you define ok or spectacular would differ greatly fro
I don't think we have to *count* the ways. I should have used numerous instead of couple - people seem to wanna count a couple as exactly two. ...
So you would eat pink mush offered as spaghetti? don't understand where that grey area is. There is no question that a whole bunch of folks would declare their kids spectacular - but are they really? We might not agree on what spectacular is, but we can probably get some roundabout general consensus on what's "not spectacular, but ok"... hence the spaghetti analogy. If you charge $25 for a plate of spaghetti and people are still buying it - I would believe that you have people agreeing what it is.
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Originally posted by SigmaNunki:Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Now, you and I might have found a few tid bits along the way to make it better. Why not share it? You might decide to use it next time, you might not... It's up to you. It's sort of like that.
You seem to think that I meant you when I posted. I never meant this to be an attack on you. My post was more of a comment that there was too much opinion going back and forth and things were kind of getting away from the basic facts of this particular situation.
No, not an attack. Since the reply was to me and the word "you" was used alot. I just seem to gather that as the passages were directed at me.
I do agree that it is getting off the basic facts, particularly the celebration and over-interpretation of what was going on. As I have suggested, there are many ways to "over-interpret" the child's reaction. Other have offered theirs.
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If someone wanted to talk about parenting in general, IMHO, they should create a thread specifically for that.
I don't really like this spaghetti analogy. Too far off from what we are talking about. For me anyway.
Always try to offer a plausible analogy that doesn't carry the same emotions. Cooking a meal and raising kids aren't that far off - Some people cook a gourmet meal and have great recipes to share, some others come up with results that they are absolutely proud of but others have ambivalence about. At the end of the day, we all have to eat it and live with it - otherwise you go hungry.
Quote:Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
I stated plainly that I don't agree with kids 10 years old of age swearing - other than that...
True, they shouldn't, but, they will. And there isn't anything that any of us can do about it. We can only - when it happens - deal with it appropriately. Which, IMHO, was done here.Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
...if something can be improved or you know a tidbit, I expect you to point it out, nothing less.
And I you.Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
It's a community, I assumed that people come to be a part of one and not to go at it alone.
I don't disagree one bit.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
So you would eat pink mush offered as spaghetti?
Of course not. And I still don't like that analogy.
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
don't understand where that grey area is.
One parent would say that there kid is spectacular if they completed high school. The other might be just ok or even a disappointment if they only "earn" a few hundred thousand a year.
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
If you charge $25 for a plate of spaghetti and people are still buying it - I would believe that you have people agreeing what it is.
Here is where your analogy breaks down. If you have a kid and screw it up. No-one will disagree if it's a kid or not.
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
No, not an attack. Since the reply was to me and the word "you" was used alot.
I'll try to be more careful when I post when I'm tired next time
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Cooking a meal and raising kids aren't that far off...
You and I clearly disagree here.
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
...otherwise you go hungry.
What does this refer to. One cannot remove themselves from society no matter how much they try. That is unless they go to some island or the middle of the Amazon.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
...otherwise you go hungry.
What does this refer to. One cannot remove themselves from society no matter how much they try. That is unless they go to some island or the middle of the Amazon.
----
"If you truly love the memory, you must set it free()!" -Me
"Also, I can kill you with my brain." -River
Exactly, that's where my comments on how another parent raises their kids have possible eventual repercussions to the rest of society. We are all interconnected some how. So it's not exactly just one person's business on how one raise their kids, each person really has a broader responsibility beyond the basic food, shelter, clothing. Beyond even education, morals, social skills. But an effective societal member - not just a nice or intelligent person to have around. Someone who adds value - we can all add value in our own way, but just not someone who clearly is a drain.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Exactly, that's where my comments on how another parent raises their kids have possible eventual repercussions to the rest of society...
To be fair. It's not only the parents responsibility to raise the child proper.
The parents typically only really have influence up to the terrible teens. Then it's mainly the friends that influence the child.
It is up to the child at some point as well. I know that my value system is very different from my parents. I have always tended to side more with the Eastern Religions where my parents are Protestant. My parents also consider money *far* more highly than I do. I could go on.
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
But an effective societal member - not just a nice or intelligent person to have around. Someone who adds value - we can all add value in our own way, but just not someone who clearly is a drain.
Well, wouldn't a nice and/or an intelligent person be a contributing member of society by default?
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jesus punto, why do you sound so angry in you post.
De, iam not saying de. i am saying Duh. as for my translations every site in the chinesse translations on this site say Ta ma Duh as F'me blind as well as (I think insults.com)its another link from this site., there are lot of sites dedicated to firefly chinese. here are some, then maybe we can stop this (what sounds like arguing amongst our selves.)and become freinds.
http://fireflychinese.home.att.net
http://www.insults.net/html/swear/chinese.html
http://ljconstantine.com/fanfic/glossary.htm
the ones i first found i can't find but these should do. the first point i was making was the little girl didn't cuss anybody out. but herself.
even on the show it is used as a " OH my God " way. or "" F' me blind"
peace?
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
just sayin'... Most 10 year olds, let alone girls, DON'T stand up for themselves. Gotta say, you're daughter was right to do so. And BTW you must be doing something right to have such a great girl.
I don't know what 10 year olds you're hanging with, but I have to say that the ones I work with have absolutely no problem standing up for themselves. Or bullying. Or putting each other down. Or looking for a fight. We actually had three girls (9) pin a boy down and start kicking him this week.
Someone earlier mentioned that a 'no touching' rule seems a bit excessive - but I have to say that depending on the district, it is entirely appropriate. Because in my year in schools, I've seen even good natured joking around escalate into some pretty serious violence, occasionally complete with blood.
And on that happy thought: Chinese is cool. Cussing in it at 10 is perhaps less so. In my own opinion.
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wow, thats, well huh, jus make sure she doesnt cuss in chinesse as often, cause then she will turn in 2 me, and thats a bad thing.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tomtba2004:
jesus punto, why do you sound so angry in you post.
No anger, no arguing either. Was it b/c I used all those swear words as examples. Thought I clearly delineated them with quotes...
Just trying to explain what it is.
I think you carry a true sincere misconception on what the phrase "Ta ma de" means, and I hope to offer some help in clearing it up.
Quote:
Originally posted by Tomtba2004:
De, iam not saying de. i am saying Duh. as for my translations every site in the chinesse translations on this site say Ta ma Duh as F'me blind as well as (I think insults.com)its another link from this site., there are lot of sites dedicated to firefly chinese. here are some, then maybe we can stop this (what sounds like arguing amongst our selves.)and become freinds.
http://fireflychinese.home.att.net
So alright. One thing is. While you are reading
this particular site, you should know that each phrase or words has two sections devoted to it. The first section of that particular (Ta Ma Duh) definition is how the subtitles appear in the Firefly show - both the anglicized spelling as well as the "translation" that appeared in the subtitles in the show.
You should know two things:
1. The anglicized spelling used in the subtitle in the show is often offered in a phoenetic form - as in something other than pinyin - and rather inconsistent most times.
2. The "translation" used in the subtitle are often skewed or exaggerated to fit the particular scene.
Now, "ta ma duh" is what the show used for the real pinyin form of the word "Ta Ma De". If you read further in that entry on that website, you will see that the *real* definition (what I would rather call usage) is "Damn it" and various variants.
"F* me blind" was only offered as the translation during the show. I am sure the mood fit the moment. But please don't attempt to take the phrase sound by sound apart and think that "Duh" or "de" = "Blind", etc, etc. It was *not* meant to be a sound by sound translation.
Quote:
Originally posted by Tomtba2004:
http://www.insults.net/html/swear/chinese.html
http://ljconstantine.com/fanfic/glossary.htm
the ones i first found i can't find but these should do. the first point i was making was the little girl didn't cuss anybody out. but herself.
even on the show it is used as a " OH my God " way. or "" F' me blind"
peace?
I couldn't find any particular entry for "Ta ma de" within either of those sites. In any case, what I am trying to convey is that "Ta ma de" is a general utterance, it is neither translated strictly as an insult against oneself or some one else. Depending on the situation, it can be used to:
1. curse out someone
2. curse out the situation in general
3. just a general "holy cow" utterance.
4. if the situation is proper, it might even be used for something like 'F* me'. But really, who uses that English phrase 'F* me' really as an insult against themselves? It's really used as a comment whatever is going on at the moment.
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Actually, I remember hearing the phrase directed at other people (in real life) as well, either directly or in their absence. Typically "Wo cao" is the more self-directed equivalent.
And "ta ma DE" is the correct pinyin spelling of the phrase; "DUH" is prob'ly their attempt at an American-ear-friendly pronunciation guide.
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JustDavid,
I have a 3 year old daughter. If she were 10 and stood up to people picking on her with bilingual cussing, I'd be proud as all get out. Moreover, I'm Chinese, and I disagree with other Chinese speakers on this board that "Ta ma de" is all that offensive.
Unlike many people on this board, I don't have a problem with profanity. Contrary to popular misperception, swearing does not cause kids to hang out on street corners smoking, anymore than listening to heavy metal causes kids to engage in school shootings.
Some parents object to swearing. Some parents have no problems with it. I fully support whatever parental guidelines parents choose to set for their own children. But no one has the right to impose their own values on other people's children, on the presumption that their own values are superior and will improve societal health. That's just bullshit.
For whatever it's worth, I'm proud of your daughter too. :)
Can't Take My Gorram Sky 
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I think that's a lot wrong in this society. Something is going on that clearly with have future repercussions - you should speak up. It's certainly not imposing or an imposition to offer advice, tidbits, aid, and/or suggestions. I would certainly disagree if someone decides to put JustDavid in a headlock and nuggie or pinkbelly him until he does exactly as requested. If my fly is down in public, rarely does anyone approach me and let me know - sure, there is plenty of gawking and avoiding the situation. How about a quick whisper "hey buddy, check your fly"? We all build societal values together - without family close by to help, you and I and eachother is all we've got. Sweeping issues under the rug isn't
going to help any. If we all just sweep the trash off of right in front of our threshold, it just comes right back the next day.
We all have to do our part to help. If it's superior, it's superior. If it's better, it's better. If it's good advice, take it. If it isn't, don't. One does *not* have to slander another's advice. It only shows how closed minded one is. That sort of attitude prevents one from learning and I certainly hope that it isn't being passed on to kids.
If someone offers an advice, listen. Everyone can decide whether to learn it, take it, or not. Judge the advice itself. But don't judge the attitude of offering an advice. How else could we pass knowledge around?
And if you can offer solid and valid scientific proof that:
1. swearing indeed does not cause kids to hang out at the street corner and smoke
2. listening to heavy metal doesn't cause kids to do school shooting
we can end all of those "misconceptions" right now. (and what's the beef with Heavy Metal, is there some sort of societal mar against Heavy Metal or something. Isn't Gangsta and Ska far more dangerous?)
Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
JustDavid,
I have a 3 year old daughter. If she were 10 and stood up to people picking on her with bilingual cussing, I'd be proud as all get out. Moreover, I'm Chinese, and I disagree with other Chinese speakers on this board that "Ta ma de" is all that offensive.
Unlike many people on this board, I don't have a problem with profanity. Contrary to popular misperception, swearing does not cause kids to hang out on street corners smoking, anymore than listening to heavy metal causes kids to engage in school shootings.
Some parents object to swearing. Some parents have no problems with it. I fully support whatever parental guidelines parents choose to set for their own children. But no one has the right to impose their own values on other people's children, on the presumption that their own values are superior and will improve societal health. That's just bullshit.Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
So, by that. You might mean that - if your next door neighbor does various nefarious acts and teaches their young'uns to steal, maim, hurt, kill. It's alright? You fully support how they are raising their kids and the type of parental guidelines that they choose to set for their own children? You very well can choose to do that - just know that those very kids:
1. live right next door - direct and very immediate repercussions for you and your family.
2. goes to the same school with your kids - let's hope your kids are completely impervious to peer pressure and peer learning.
For whatever it's worth, I'm proud of your daughter too. :)
Can't Take My Gorram Sky
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
I think that's a lot wrong in this society. Something is going on that clearly with have future repercussions - you should speak up.
Then Maybe people should worry about more important problems. Such as, the dumping down of school curriculum, the worsening of the "me attitude", crimes becoming more violent, in fact society becoming more violent and disconnected (socially) etc. Swearing is hardly one of these top issues and is most likely a side effect of them.
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
It's certainly not imposing or an imposition to offer advice, tidbits, aid, and/or suggestions.
Depends on what words are used, how they are used and with what vigor they are used. Most of the time people come off a preachy and that spells shutdown for the person they are trying to dispense advice to. Your vigor is getting about that bad area.
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
We all have to do our part to help. If it's superior, it's superior. If it's better, it's better. If it's good advice, take it. If it isn't, don't. One does *not* have to slander another's advice. It only shows how closed minded one is. That sort of attitude prevents one from learning and I certainly hope that it isn't being passed on to kids.
Again, in whose opinion is it superior. Different cultures will have different values in general, never mind the range that that societies people will have.
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
How else could we pass knowledge around?
Mostly this is done from parents to child, school, friends, etc. Not some anonymous guy on a board.
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
And if you can offer solid and valid scientific proof that:
1. swearing indeed does not cause kids to hang out at the street corner and smoke
Everybody that I know swore from time to time and only a handful hung out on the street corner and smoked. If 1) was true then all of the hundreds of kids that I went to high school with would have been there right beside me.
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
2. listening to heavy metal doesn't cause kids to do school shooting
There are studies that show that heavy metal music cause the person to have a lesser IQ and a more aggressive attitude, but, for only a few minutes afterward. Interestingly enough, classical music has that opposite effect for about the same time.
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
(and what's the beef with Heavy Metal, is there some sort of societal mar against Heavy Metal or something. Isn't Gangsta and Ska far more dangerous?)
1) no music is dangerous
2) heavy metal got a bad rap because it is the more extreme form of rock and roll which was demonized before it
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Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
I think that's a lot wrong in this society. Something is going on that clearly with have future repercussions - you should speak up.
Then Maybe people should worry about more important problems. Such as, the dumping down of school curriculum, the worsening of the "me attitude", crimes becoming more violent, in fact society becoming more violent and disconnected (socially) etc. Swearing is hardly one of these top issues and is most likely a side effect of them.
We can discuss causation and results. But the solution starts at home. We can work out all of the other problems too - but let's start at home - where the problems are small - and we, arguably, has the most and direct control over it. Schools only provide one small facet of a child's total curriculum. It has been shown that different children using the same curriculum proceed at a different pace not merely b/c of their own personal ability, but b/c of their support system at home. At home is where the big difference is made. At home is where we have the most control and influence. Take away MTV, take away gangsta rap, take away violent movies, take away Big Macs, 24 hour soda fountains, Britney Spears - and the parents *might* have a chance. I am not saying bringing up your child with a whitebread world - those other things do come, they will have to face it eventually. But let's provide the kids with a good stable foundation to be ready to understand and perhaps *appreciate* these things without being completely exploited by them.
(Again with the food analogy) Just like bringing kids into solid food for the first time - one wouldn't sit them in front of a 9 course meal complete with Beef Wellington, Baked Alaska and to finish it off a nice 1943 Port? (Before I get the responses - I am well aware of the possibility that perhaps some people indeedy do this, but let me present the alternative). One would, properly, start off with bland cereal and watered down fruit to get the digestive system and the taste buds ready. Then after several days or scant weeks - move on to some primary flavours, but one flavor at a time, so that:
1. they are not overwhelmed with the sudden strong flavors and get completely turned off by the awfulness and intensity.
2. learn to appreciate and differenciate each new food and flavour.
3. learn whether the kid actually has certain specific food allergy.
One lesson at a time, one thing at a time. Build upon the basis of prior experiences. Reinforce, build, and practice.
In any case, all we really have the most, direct, and immediate control over are things that are right around us. The idea that I have is at least to work on the things that you have the most influence and control over - and worry least about the things that you cannot control in no uncertain terms. People worry about the weather - it's cold, it's hot, it's snowing, it's not raining. They worry about whether they will catch a cold. They worry about world population, earthquakes, world hunger. I ask myself the questions:
1. do I have control over it at all?
2. how can I have an influence over it?
3. what can I do to help/ aid/ solve it?
Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
It's certainly not imposing or an imposition to offer advice, tidbits, aid, and/or suggestions.
Depends on what words are used, how they are used and with what vigor they are used. Most of the time people come off a preachy and that spells shutdown for the person they are trying to dispense advice to. Your vigor is getting about that bad area.
Again, you can use it or don't. I say it like it is. If you have a better way of putting it, I will gladly take your advice. We can all learn together. Way I see it, the problem is on the receiving end and not on the transmitting end (Again, if it's a problem on this end and there is a valid suggestion in improving it - I wi
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JustDavid: Leita sounds like a well adjusted, thoughtful and loving daughter. I hope to be so lucky one day ;)
Where I live (in NZ) profanity is not such a big deal as it seems to be in the US (we use words like damn, bollocks, hell, shit, bugger etc a lot in every day conversation. In my opinion strong cussing once in a while (where appropriate) is not a sign some huge break down in societal values.
What if I happen to like mushy spaghetti and think it's best that way? Or hate italian sausage? If it's my meal to prepare then I'll make it how I think it should be made with the ingredients I think are best. If I want advice on how to make spaghetti another way, then I'll ask. Simple as that ;)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zoriah:
JustDavid: Leita sounds like a well adjusted, thoughtful and loving daughter. I hope to be so lucky one day ;)
Where I live (in NZ) profanity is not such a big deal as it seems to be in the US (we use words like damn, bollocks, hell, shit, bugger etc a lot in every day conversation. In my opinion strong cussing once in a while (where appropriate) is not a sign some huge break down in societal values.
I agree, Swearing and cussing can be an effectual and important method to expressing oneself - when and where appropriate - at times. It might even be the preferred method or the singular method if one is a longshoremen or a pirate - but I wouldn't know that. All I know is that there are much better ways and words of expressing oneself in most particular situations. I swear alot when I am around people who's singular mode of communication is thru grunts and cussing. I swear when I am alone working on projects and done something dumb. The thing that I am trying to convey is that swearing shouldn't be the first and only option in a child's "bag of tricks". At such an impressionable young age, they should be taught how to get help when it's appropriate, how to deal with conflict, disarm the situation, and if completely appropriate and there are no absolutely no other options (I would say it's time to get help rather than swearing) perhaps other avenues.
IAC, swearing and cussing is increasingly a replacement in wide-open public places to expressing oneself. I know that there are plenty of parents out there who even objects to the use of *non-swear* words such as "stupid", let alone other more powerful incarnations. I sit in family restaurants (not in a bar) and the idiots around us just don't know how to shut up - it's a family restaurant, not some local pool hall.
Quote:
Originally posted by Zoriah:
What if I happen to like mushy spaghetti and think it's best that way? Or hate italian sausage? If it's my meal to prepare then I'll make it how I think it should be made with the ingredients I think are best.
Some people do indeed like mushy spaghetti. Maybe it's even the same as the pink mush I described. I wouldn't know. I don't much like it myself. I like sausages. You don't, we all like different things. But there are differences between mere preferences (which don't amount to any beans when it's all done) and decisions with societal impacts. I won't reiterate my views that things like raising kids are one of those - most parents would agree - it's just how we each do things at the end that we likely disagree on.
Quote:
Originally posted by Zoriah:
If I want advice on how to make spaghetti another way, then I'll ask. Simple as that ;)
Zoriah, we aren't talking about advices on fashion tips - like "Good Golly, look at that nasty shirt you are wearing!" or "Did you sleep in that outfit?" Maybe you live on an island by yourself, but last time I checked, we are all dependent on each other in this little world. But at your request, I have noted it down in my little book:
"No Spaghetti Advices for Zoriah"
and I expect that, since you won't take any advice, you also won't be dispensing any advices either? Bummer, I will have to do without that secret lamb stew spaghetti recipe - I suppose.
thanks,
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
At such an impressionable young age, they should be taught how to get help when it's appropriate, how to deal with conflict, disarm the situation, and if completely appropriate and there are no absolutely no other options (I would say it's time to get help rather than swearing) perhaps other avenues.
This is a good example of why I think you're getting some opposition here.
First, you've said before that you're just offering suggestions, but your tone often comes across as preaching, and for me when it seems like someone is lecturing me, my gut reaction is to reject whatever point they're trying to make. From a teacher in a college class, I'm totally open to a lecture. But from most other sources, it just makes me turn off.
Second, many of us disagree with the idea that cussing is a significant evil, or that it leads to things like smoking or violence. I just can't see a connection there. From my point of view, cussing at the wrong time amounts to a social faux pas, like maybe eating spaghetti
with your hands. People will disapprove, but not much harm done.Thanks to Zoriah, CantTakeSky, and others further up the thread for all the kind words.
"Light it."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
I think that's a lot wrong in this society. Something is going on that clearly with have future repercussions - you should speak up.
Then Maybe people should worry about more important problems. Such as, the dumping down of school curriculum, the worsening of the "me attitude", crimes becoming more violent, in fact society becoming more violent and disconnected (socially) etc. Swearing is hardly one of these top issues and is most likely a side effect of them.
We can discuss causation and results. But the solution starts at home.
You have missed my point. It is the fact that parents after the first few years have little control over there child. ie Once they enter the school system. So, for the most part, the home has been taken out of the equation, unfortunatly.
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Schools only provide one small facet of a child's total curriculum.
Total BS. The school in the past provided one small facet of a child's total curriculum, but, not anymore. The school has been called upon to teach sex-ed, phys-ed, general social behaviours, etc. This should be the parents domain, but, because parents don't want to deal with these things anymore they are offloading them on the schools. Which by the laws of the land, schools cannot provide these things to any degree of quality.
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
It has been shown that different children using the same curriculum proceed at a different pace not merely b/c of their own personal ability, but b/c of their support system at home.
Don't these same studies say that a child is only significantly impacted with a bad home? ie divorce, abuse, etc. Which incidentally has nothing to do with a kid swearing. More likely a side effect of it.
You know, with the posts we exchange, I get the feeling more and more that you cannot tell the difference between cause and effect. You seem to treat them as one and not that one comes after the other. I know about cause and effect and have put forth ideas that get to the root of the problem not the symptoms.
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Take away MTV, take away gangsta rap, take away violent movies, take away Big Macs, 24 hour soda fountains, Britney Spears - and the parents *might* have a chance.
So then, you are one of those black and white people. The situation is much more complicated than you make it as well and more complicated than can be discussed here.
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
But let's provide the kids with a good stable foundation to be ready to understand and perhaps *appreciate* these things without being completely exploited by them.
Sheltering a child has never been good and never will be. I've had many friends that have been sheltered and they are not exactly well adjusted. Those that parents didn't try to shield them from the world, but, let it come at its natural pace are the ones that became the most.
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
(Again with the food analogy)
I again make my disdain known for these analogies. They over simplify an obviously complicated issue.
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
1. they are not overwhelmed with the sudden strong flavors and get completely turned off by the awfulness and intensity.
If a child never is able to overcome adversity then the will remain a coward or develop an over-inflated sense of self. ie I can do anything, which is ridiculous. By the way, what you suggest to do happens naturally with life.
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
2. learn to appreciate and differenciate each new food and flavour.
So then, we treat our kids like they are stupid? Like they need to be spoon fed?
Those that are intellectuals will act out if they are not challenged. So, then this would make the problem worse. That is w
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Quote:
Originally posted by JustDavid:Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
At such an impressionable young age, they should be taught how to get help when it's appropriate, how to deal with conflict, disarm the situation, and if completely appropriate and there are no absolutely no other options (I would say it's time to get help rather than swearing) perhaps other avenues.
This is a good example of why I think you're getting some opposition here.
First, you've said before that you're just offering suggestions, but your tone often comes across as preaching, and for me when it seems like someone is lecturing me, my gut reaction is to reject whatever point they're trying to make. From a teacher in a college class, I'm totally open to a lecture. But from most other sources, it just makes me turn off.
And from my experience, academics are the people who should lecture the least. Academics should do research and break ground in new theories. Unfortunately, very few academics have real live experience and applications. Few well studied academics are generalists enough to apply their field outside of very defined instances.
Like I said, the general attitude here is that "no one can teach me anything new". I hope that those folks can do a little reexamining and figure out that if we all help each other - just a little bit, we can all build something nice together.
The "preachiness" isn't my part - I challenge you-all to take anyone of my post and rewrite it to the point that you feel is *not-preachy*. That way I can learn something specifically on why either my words or the way I wrote was "preachy". Perhaps it was the words I used, perhaps it was my sentence structure - either way, I would be glad to learn more from you-all.
In exchange, I ask that you take a moment and reflect on why it is that we all have to reinvent every single thing on our own - brush me off if you must (as you said, I am but one small insignificant individual in a sea of people - like everyone of us are) - but don't brush off the idea. We can all build a better place together.
Quote:
Originally posted by JustDavid:
Second, many of us disagree with the idea that cussing is a significant evil, or that it leads to things like smoking or violence. I just can't see a connection there. From my point of view, cussing at the wrong time amounts to a social faux pas, like maybe eating spaghetti
Thanks to Zoriah, CantTakeSky, and others further up the thread for all the kind words.
"Light it."
Let's move away from "cussing is a significant evil" - my entire point is that there are better things to do than cussing in most situations and a child should learn those things. I have already stated and many folks have stated the same that cussing can be useful at the appropriate time and the appropriate place - I've reiterated that there are probably better avenues to resolve the situation.
And I think you agree there. I believe your thoughts are (correct me if my interpretation from your post is incorrect) that. Your instruction to your child is that "you won't do that the next time". I take that to mean that - should the same (or similar) situation occur again, she will not use those words. I am thinking that you believe there are other avenues to explore, in this particular situation, besides swearing. In which case, what I've done is to model the situation with my kid and have them play act out the part, let their lips, tongue, brain, and body experience the different types of behavior that they could have done. That's all I want to say.
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If within this community we may provide advice, allow me to propose two thoughts.
"Until thy feet have trod the Road
Advise not wayside folk."--Rudyard Kipling ("The Comforters")
"The true secret of giving advice is, after you have honestly given it, to be perfectly indifferent whether it is taken or not, and never persist in trying to set people right."--Hannah Whitall Smith
"Wacky fun..."
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Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
I think that's a lot wrong in this society. Something is going on that clearly with have future repercussions - you should speak up.
Then Maybe people should worry about more important problems. Such as, the dumping down of school curriculum, the worsening of the "me attitude", crimes becoming more violent, in fact society becoming more violent and disconnected (socially) etc. Swearing is hardly one of these top issues and is most likely a side effect of them.
We can discuss causation and results. But the solution starts at home.
You have missed my point. It is the fact that parents after the first few years have little control over there child. ie Once they enter the school system. So, for the most part, the home has been taken out of the equation, unfortunatly.
No, parents do not *have* to give up everything to the world. I've stated earlier in this thread that I am quite well aware of the fact the type of curriculum the school imposes on the parents nowadays. The home is not take out of the equation if you don't let it. Here, in our household, we work with our teacher every week and find out what's coming down the line; we keep a close tap on who the friends are in the classroom, who they hang out with, how they behave in the classroom, what they have been learning, what teaching methods the teachers use in each of the subject. All of this so that we can properly supplement the lessons that are going on in the classroom with what we can teach and how we can help at home - not just academically, but emotionally as well.
If you admit that you've completely given up control, then you must have. The school and teaching systems nowadays are relegated to doing what they have to do b/c they still believe in the things that must be taught to children - b/c a few parents care enough to take control of what's going on. None of these would be necessary if most of us care enough to offer advice to new parents and make sure that most of the kids are prepared to get into school - then be there for them and guide them thru the school years.
I hope that you don't truly believe that one has absolutely no control over what happens to a child once they enter school - I don't know if you have children or not (from your other threads, I gathered that you do not). The fact is, you do lose a little control, but by that time, it's time to let go a little and have them learn a little bit of the real world.
Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Schools only provide one small facet of a child's total curriculum.
Total BS. The school in the past provided one small facet of a child's total curriculum, but, not anymore. The school has been called upon to teach sex-ed, phys-ed, general social behaviours, etc. This should be the parents domain, but, because parents don't want to deal with these things anymore they are offloading them on the schools. Which by the laws of the land, schools cannot provide these things to any degree of quality.
The school plays a comparatively small part in my child and our family's life b/c that's what we allow it to have. What we teach, how we supplement the material at home, all of the family activities we do together continue to far surpass what is done in school. We make what the teachers do an integral part of what our child do, but we certainly assert control of how the lessons are taken in. No, we can't control what they are spoon-fed along with the other kids, but we certainly work with our kids on what lessons are "learned".
Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
It has been shown that different children using the same curriculum proceed at a different pace not merely b/c of their own personal ability, but b/cNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
BlazingBug,
Agree with you 100%
Wouldn't have it or take it any other way...
Thanks for quoting them.
Quote:
Originally posted by BlazingBug:
If within this community we may provide advice, allow me to propose two thoughts.
"Until thy feet have trod the Road
Advise not wayside folk."--Rudyard Kipling ("The Comforters")
"The true secret of giving advice is, after you have honestly given it, to be perfectly indifferent whether it is taken or not, and never persist in trying to set people right."--Hannah Whitall Smith
"Wacky fun..."
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I will only comment on this, because quite frankly, I find your other ramblings... well... ramblings.
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
BlazingBug,
Agree with you 100%
Wouldn't have it or take it any other way...
Thanks for quoting them.Quote:
Originally posted by BlazingBug:
If within this community we may provide advice, allow me to propose two thoughts.
"Until thy feet have trod the Road
Advise not wayside folk."--Rudyard Kipling ("The Comforters")
"The true secret of giving advice is, after you have honestly given it, to be perfectly indifferent whether it is taken or not, and never persist in trying to set people right."--Hannah Whitall Smith
"Wacky fun..."
Yet you persist.
----
"An airport gives a good cross section of the mentally unstable, doesn't it." -Me
"Also, I can kill you with my brain." -River
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Not sure what you mean. Regular normal everyday humans interaction actually would sort of demand some sort of directness. Vagueness leaves everything one guessing - and not the hallmark of an "intellectual". Intellectuals actually want to be understood and want to understand.
Now, not only are you being vague, but you have started to lace your commentary with some sense of contempt. If that's the way it is with how *intellectuals* are when they feel they have got nothing else better to say. I would say that you are correct and you have just proven the otherwise side issue that cussing does no good to people in general - quite apparently in your case, not only has it stunted your speech and vocabulary, but your thinking and thought process as well. shame... 
I've asked you for examples of what your ideas on:
1. parenting (least of my concerns, obviously no one wants to really talk about this one)
2. sharing of knowledge in general
3. logic
4. how I could structure my writing better so as to not appear less "preachy"
5. a better analogy then my spaghetti analogy and food analogy in general.
But what I've gotten so far is bupkis... Oh wait no, I've got:
"Your rambling is ur... rambling"
You couldn't even point out what was rambling. I am looking for advice help from a self-prescribed intellectual - obviously maybe neither is the case.
If you've got issues with your own upbringing (you seemed to have alluded to them in two posts), you ought to bring it up with your own parents - I might have a few words, but I honestly don't have all mine sorted out yet.
If you have something to offer, something you can teach me, correct me, I welcome it. If you can further the discussion without reducing yourself to vague commentary and some passive-agressive "rambling", I welcome the discussion. I can certainly learn a thing or two from an "intellectual".
Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
I will only comment on this, because quite frankly, I find your other ramblings... well... ramblings.Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
BlazingBug,
Agree with you 100%
Wouldn't have it or take it any other way...
Thanks for quoting them.Quote:
Originally posted by BlazingBug:
If within this community we may provide advice, allow me to propose two thoughts.
"Until thy feet have trod the Road
Advise not wayside folk."--Rudyard Kipling ("The Comforters")
"The true secret of giving advice is, after you have honestly given it, to be perfectly indifferent whether it is taken or not, and never persist in trying to set people right."--Hannah Whitall Smith
"Wacky fun..."
Yet you persist.
----
"An airport gives a good cross section of the mentally unstable, doesn't it." -Me
"Also, I can kill you with my brain." -River
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Quote:
Originally posted by BlazingBug:
"The true secret of giving advice is, after you have honestly given it, to be perfectly indifferent whether it is taken or not, and never persist in trying to set people right."--Hannah Whitall SmithQuote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Agree with you 100%
Wouldn't have it or take it any other way...
Thanks for quoting them.
Then I said, "Yet you persist." I don't know how much more clear I can make it.
I said:
"""
I will only comment on this, because quite frankly, I find your other ramblings... well... ramblings.
"""
Which you couldn't even quote properly. I didn't show you anything because I didn't feel the need too. I still don't. Which is clear by what I had written. Then you proceed to insult my intelligence and scold me?!?
Let me say this. I am not a self prescribed intellectual. I am just good at what I do. I don't think that just because I get good grades. See below for my thoughts on grades.
I think I am good because I have been mistaken for a 2nd year student by many other students when I was in 1st year and chosen for a summer research position after that 1st year. The research I did, how another student entering his graduate studies put it, "What someone would be doing after there 3rd or 4th year." This year I had a prof offer to go around and promote me to the other profs doing research because his grant ran out. Otherwise I'd be working for him.
I have been told by those above me (way above me with regards to education) that I impress them, pretty much no matter what I have done. I have been the best cook at the "restaurant" where I worked when I cooked. When I went to school to become a programmer I was one of the best that was there. When I was in the IT industry I was one of the best programmers in the shop that I worked at (Didn't start that way, but ended up that way.). I have been among the best students in Physics when I was there and as for Math... the profs seem to think I am good as well. If fact one has stated that directly to me.
Does any of this require logic. Clearly, all of it does.
Does any of this make me an intellectual? Maybe, maybe not. To me, it just makes me good at things I like and try at. If some calls me an intellectual, super, if not, whatever. I know what I have accomplished and what I am.
To me grades only show that someone tests well. I know people that would intellectually crush those who have a ~4.5 CGPA, but, they themselves are around 3.5 CGPA.
And after your last post, if you think that I'm willing to continue this to any degree you're sadly mistaken. I'm done with this. It has become a drain on my time and I find it fruitless. Any further attempts to engage me will be ignored.
----
"An airport gives a good cross section of the mentally unstable, doesn't it." -Me
"Also, I can kill you with my brain." -River
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ok, i didn't realize that chinese was so much like spanish. Sentences could partially change meaning depending on the situation (which is all you had to say) But the main thing i was saying and where i first got the translation from was that, the girl wacthed the show (and it is used as a "Holy s***" kinda way.) she took it from that and said it to a person but thinking it from the show. which would make no sense..Get what i am thinkig?
Ps. if you don't mind me asking how old are you and what nationality? I think it is kinda funny to people discussing the proper way of chinese and not being of the origin ourselves.
Have a nice day
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ok, i didn't realize that chinese was so much like spanish. Sentences could partially change meaning depending on the situation (which is all you had to say) But the main thing i was saying and where i first got the translation from was that, the girl wacthed the show (and it is used as a "Holy s***" kinda way.) she took it from that and said it to a person but thinking it from the show. which would make no sense..Get what i am thinkig?
Ps. if you don't mind me asking how old are you and what nationality? I think it is kinda funny to people discussing the proper way of chinese and not being of the origin ourselves.
Have a nice day
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Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:Quote:
Originally posted by BlazingBug:
"The true secret of giving advice is, after you have honestly given it, to be perfectly indifferent whether it is taken or not, and never persist in trying to set people right."--Hannah Whitall SmithQuote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Agree with you 100%
Wouldn't have it or take it any other way...
Thanks for quoting them.
Then I said, "Yet you persist." I don't know how much more clear I can make it.
I think you misunderstand quite a bit, let me sum it up and following me if you please.
I have explained time and again that the "parenting" tidbit about the cursing (which was simply that in my situation, I would model an alternative behaviour in addition to explain that cursing should not be done next time) was offered and that's it - take it or leave it. I certainly didn't obsess on it. So, I do agree with BlazingBug and his quotes absolutely.
However, what I do not agree with is the attitute of "I am not gonna listen to your yammering b/c I didn't invent me". My opinion is this completely NIH (Not Invented Here) attitude is complete lunacy.
Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
I said:
"""
I will only comment on this, because quite frankly, I find your other ramblings... well... ramblings.
"""
Which you couldn't even quote properly. I didn't show you anything because I didn't feel the need too. I still don't. Which is clear by what I had written. Then you proceed to insult my intelligence and scold me?!?
I para-phrased that time. I would have been more careful had I wanted to quote. Since I didn't feel that you had taken the care to explain yourself. IAC, was that phrase really worthwhile to quote in complete accuracy. I think I got your drift in a shorter phrase. Anyways, I had all the important morsels that you wanted to impart - did I not? I didn't insult your intelligence. But I meant what was in there - seems you ran out of words or thought and decided to attack me with some meaningless yammering instead. I stated it so.
Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
Let me say this. I am not a self prescribed intellectual. I am just good at what I do. I don't think that just because I get good grades. See below for my thoughts on grades.
I gathered that you would be an intellectual from here.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=4715&m=56449#56420
About midway down. I don't think it was out of context. I quoted a complete thought there.
"Those that are intellectuals will act out if they are not challenged. So, then this would make the problem worse. That is what it was with me, among others."
Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
I think I am good because I have been mistaken for a 2nd year student by many other students when I was in 1st year and chosen for a summer research position after that 1st year. The research I did, how another student entering his graduate studies put it, "What someone would be doing after there 3rd or 4th year." This year I had a prof offer to go around and promote me to the other profs doing research because his grant ran out. Otherwise I'd be working for him.
I have been told by those above me (way above me with regards to education) that I impress them, pretty much no matter what I have done. I have been the best cook at the "restaurant" where I worked when I cooked. When I went to school to become a programmer I was one of the best that was there. When I was in the IT industry I was one of the best programmers in the shop that I worked at (Didn't start that way, but ended up that way.). I have been among the best students in Physics when I was there and as for Math... the profs seem to think I am good as well. If fact one has stated that directly to me.
Does any of this require logic. Clearly, all of it does.
Does any of this make me an intellectual? Maybe, maybe not. To me, it just makes me good at thiNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Hi Tomtba:
I am glad now that you can use the phrase "Ta ma de" with full confidence of what it could be.
I am interested in finding out more about your thoughts on and maybe some comparative examples on how Spanish can do the same. I believe many languages exhibit the same type of behavior - those linguists on the board might like to share a bit on what this type of deal is called in linguistic terms.
Quote:
Originally posted by Tomtba2004:
ok, i didn't realize that chinese was so much like spanish. Sentences could partially change meaning depending on the situation (which is all you had to say) But the main thing i was saying and where i first got the translation from was that, the girl wacthed the show (and it is used as a "Holy s***" kinda way.) she took it from that and said it to a person but thinking it from the show. which would make no sense..Get what i am thinkig?
Ps. if you don't mind me asking how old are you and what nationality? I think it is kinda funny to people discussing the proper way of chinese and not being of the origin ourselves.
Have a nice day
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
I gathered that you would be an intellectual from here.
Sarcasm or not, can't tell b/c the tone of your previous messages had become hostile. And below as well.
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Not sure why you felt the need for the dissertation on that part of your background.
You insulted my intellect. It was an attempt to display that not only do I have one, I have what some think to be a damn good one. As in, not just my opinion. Nothing more.
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
I don't think it's honorable to abandon this conversation now, you have drawn me into this and invested quite a bit of time.
I am rather charged right now. Give it a couple weeks and I'll see where I am then. If you're still interested and I'm ok with it we can discuss the finer points through the message system at our user profiles. And if you do, restate your arguments here. I will have forgotten them by that time.
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
So if you are no longer continuing this, then I take to mean that:
0. you can dish out challenges and hack apart other's statements, but you are unwilling to accept like challenges.
1. you have nothing else you could offer - either revisions or further examples.
2. you find nothing further to accurately challenge the basis of my offering.
3. you would just rather be happy sitting at the top of your various pyramids and would rather either not provide mentorship or would rather not be challenged at all.
Funny you only pick the degrading options.
----
"An airport gives a good cross section of the mentally unstable, doesn't it." -Me
"Also, I can kill you with my brain." -River
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Isn't it fun to watch a simple thread take on a mutated life of it's own?
I feel like I just watched a new Fox reality series titled "Who's the Best Parent"
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Quote:
Originally posted by WhooDahn:
Isn't it fun to watch a simple thread take on a mutated life of it's own?
On what do you base your definition of "fun"? Mutations require a genetic variable which you have failed to provide. Please explain.
Quote:
I feel like I just watched a new Fox reality series titled "Who's the Best Parent"
I don't know how you feel you are qualified make an observation like this. You've failed to support your position.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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Gives Sigmanunki a virtual hug.
Jasonzzz: Here's me sharing a little tidbit. I'm sorry but from your very first post your tone came across to me as a little proscriptive, didactic and superior. You have asserted that was not your intention, that you were merely offering up your opinion, engaging in discourse. While it was not your intention to sound like you were taking some kind of moral high ground and implying that Justdavid's methods of upbringing were lacking compared to yours - that is the impression I got from your posts.
I do not think that anyone here wants to or condones bringing up a child without guidance and support, however we may disagree on the best approach to achieve the most positive outcome.
Therefore I think that *unsolicited* advice on child-rearing that springs from an implication of perceived shortcomings should be avoided here. If Justdavid had asked for tips or advice on the situation with Leita then I would have no problems with your responses, however I feel that this thread that started out as a cute anecdote about a father and daughter has turned into an unwarranted lecture.
Just my thoughts.
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Exactly
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zoriah:
Gives Sigmanunki a virtual hug.
My first virtual hug
And thanks to yourself and Whoodahn.----
"An airport gives a good cross section of the mentally unstable, doesn't it." -Me
"Also, I can kill you with my brain." -River
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Zoriah:
First of all, I got your tidbit, but if you could help me out a bit in figuring out how I could sound less "a little proscriptive, didactic and superior". Some selected bits on how yourself might phrase some of the things I've said. Usually, tidbits include a suggestion to improve something or an alternative method. To use my food analogy, "Try a bit of rosemary", or "I've used a bit more cumin before and the chili tasted great". Rather than "That tastes too tart", or "it's a bit saucy, no?", which are criticisms - and criticisms are fine. I just need more help as far as tidbits go, that's all.
I myself have been off of the "Child rearing" tidbit topic for quite sometime. But seems like everyone is all charged up about that and repeatedly brings it up. If the feeling that I conveyed is JustDavid's way is lacking (from the mere several posts that he had, I don't know how anyone can come to that conclusion from that thin sample) that wasn't my intent. However, the prevailing attitude is seems to be that "people can't seem to do *poorly*" and that "doing poorly is bad". Here's my take:
People can do poorly at times. But most times it's not a fault of their own. It's not *bad*. It just means that they need an alternative way or maybe they need a bit more practice.
There is nothing *wrong* in being wrong or doing poorly at all. The problem is people don't want to be *wrong* (they think it's *bad*, you see?)- improvements cannot come without that one realization.
Remember? "Failure is the mother of all inventions?"
I think I've said enough of that front. Unless if there are new thoughts regarding this - I am not really going to repeat anything here.
It is in the best of human interest for us to pool together our resources and gathered knowledge. I share a bit and you share a bit.
I myself think the best kind of advice are what you call "unsolicited" advice. Do you think Nasa engineers can use some "unsolicited" advice now and then? Exactly when we stand to be the most confident about our thoughts and way of thinking is when we should have a through examination of it.
Quote:
Originally posted by Zoriah:
Gives Sigmanunki a virtual hug.
Jasonzzz: Here's me sharing a little tidbit. I'm sorry but from your very first post your tone came across to me as a little proscriptive, didactic and superior. You have asserted that was not your intention, that you were merely offering up your opinion, engaging in discourse. While it was not your intention to sound like you were taking some kind of moral high ground and implying that Justdavid's methods of upbringing were lacking compared to yours - that is the impression I got from your posts.
I do not think that anyone here wants to or condones bringing up a child without guidance and support, however we may disagree on the best approach to achieve the most positive outcome.
Therefore I think that *unsolicited* advice on child-rearing that springs from an implication of perceived shortcomings should be avoided here. If Justdavid had asked for tips or advice on the situation with Leita then I would have no problems with your responses, however I feel that this thread that started out as a cute anecdote about a father and daughter has turned into an unwarranted lecture.
Just my thoughts.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
I gathered that you would be an intellectual from here.
Sarcasm or not, can't tell b/c the tone of your previous messages had become hostile. And below as well.Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Not sure why you felt the need for the dissertation on that part of your background.
You insulted my intellect. It was an attempt to display that not only do I have one, I have what some think to be a damn good one. As in, not just my opinion. Nothing more.
fine, except I didn't insult your intellect. You did self-describe yourself as an intellectual and you have some issues with how your parents didn't do you right. I merely pointed out that intellectual (people well studied) offers evidence and examples rather than slice and dice other's words and offer non-sequitors. Read what I have wrote, provide an alternative theory, then provide supporting evidence or examples.
Again, I am no longer in doubt that you are well priased. Fine, let's move on. I will never understand why Academics are always indulging these kinds of mutual adulation. Some Freudian thing, always seeking peer approval. Nevermind, it's not germaine to the conversation.
Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
I don't think it's honorable to abandon this conversation now, you have drawn me into this and invested quite a bit of time.
I am rather charged right now. Give it a couple weeks and I'll see where I am then. If you're still interested and I'm ok with it we can discuss the finer points through the message system at our user profiles. And if you do, restate your arguments here. I will have forgotten them by that time.
Well, if you are going to, fine. But if it's only a half hearted attempt, nevermind. If you grow tired of it, then it won't be interesting. I would rather not delve on boring things.
Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
So if you are no longer continuing this, then I take to mean that:
0. you can dish out challenges and hack apart other's statements, but you are unwilling to accept like challenges.
1. you have nothing else you could offer - either revisions or further examples.
2. you find nothing further to accurately challenge the basis of my offering.
3. you would just rather be happy sitting at the top of your various pyramids and would rather either not provide mentorship or would rather not be challenged at all.
Funny you only pick the degrading options.
Again, with the snide commentary. Someone as eminent as yourself could provide a bit more help to the downtrodden here. There must be other options then? If you don't name them, then maybe other options do not exist. And if these are the only options, then it doesn't matter if they are degrading or not. Either way, these are the only options.
Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
----
"An airport gives a good cross section of the mentally unstable, doesn't it." -Me
"Also, I can kill you with my brain." -River
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http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=5&t=3283
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since no one else will take you up on the request to try and restate your advice in what my be considered a more friendly manner, i'm going to give it a shot... Wish me luck!
BTW -- i put in the bit w/the translation just for context, i wouldn't change that.
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Don't know where you got your translations from, but "Ta Ma de..." literally translates to Your/His/Her mama... but used in the same sense and generality as "F*ck" or "S*it"...
Kid 10 year old using that kind of language in China also stands around on the corner of the block smoking and beating each other up. If I catch my kid even thinking anything like that, we are going to go thru the 12 pack of Irish Spring before we are done.
How about -- "That phrase is cetainly not used in polite company. The fact that she cursed in Chinese doesn't negate the fact that she cursed; it just confused those at whom she cursed. I personally would be a bit stricter with my child. I think it's important to nip these kind of things in the bud, but then again, the situation may be drastically different than what i imagine. Nonetheless my child would have tasted Irish Spring before we were done because I would want to make sure that it didn't happen again."
I think that this would have gone over a bit better without having to lose the point of the message, which, as i see it, is that you would have acted differently and perhaps being more strict would be beneficial for the child.
If the conversation started like this it would seem like less of an attack and the other comments may have been taken in the manner you had intended -- friendly advice. just a thought.
I do see your point, but from what was described i think Leita did learn her lesson and probably won't be swearing in any language anytime soon.
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If examples and advice will help, allow me. These quotes are from your first and third posts on this thread (skipping one related to translation alone).
Quote:
Kid 10 year old using that kind of language in China also stands around on the corner of the block smoking and beating each other up.
Explanation: It has already been stated that this child used "that kind of language." This statement by you infers that she will also engage in smoking (addictive behavior) and violence. It is therefore by inference an attack on the child's morality.
Advice: First, don't make statements you can't factually support. Second, don't make generalizations because they can never be supported. Third, don't write hastily; that leads you to see your words only within your point of view. That sentence could have had a much less antagonistic meaning if you had just inserted the word "regularly" before "using." More than likely, that's how you saw that sentence, but it isn't what you wrote.
Quote:
If I catch my kid even thinking anything like that, we are going to go thru the 12 pack of Irish Spring before we are done.
Explanation: Once more this reads as an attack. We know the child said this, and we know the parent's response. Stating that in an even lesser situation you would have reacted in a more extreme way is simply an indirect way of condemning that person's actions.
Advice: First, if you are making a point within the context of your situation, always clearly state it as your independent opinion within your comment. Second, hyperbole is only one step away from ridicule; you should always consider this before using it. This sentence would have been much different as, "I would have been more punitive with my child, but that's just me."
Quote:
Well... as my kids' Kteacher would put it so diplomatically (When we were applying our kids for the Magnet program) "A lot of parents think their kids are super bright"...
Explanation: After a description of the child's positive points by the parent, you open your reply with this disparaging remark on a parent's ability to assess their own child. Only later do you go on to state that you think the parent is handling their child correctly.
Advice: Never open a paragraph with a negative remark and then switch to positive statements. It makes the positive statesments look sarcastic.
Quote:
Leita did what she did b/c she didn't have an existing library of responses for that situation.
Explanation: Once more, you've made an attack out of your statement. The big problem here is that you have directly named the child and as such, the statement can have no other meaning than to refer to her. Then you state your opinion of why she did what she did as fact without any qualifiers whatsoever. Then that causation is based off what the parent should provide the child. Short translation: "You are a bad parent."
Advice: First, the third person is your friend. Second, remember the part about not making statements you can't factually support. Third, you cannot support any absolute statement, so don't make them. Qualifiers are your responsibility, not the reader's.
Hope this helps.
"Wacky fun..."
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ummm... yeah what he said. (that was much better than my attempt. well done BlazingBug!)
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BlazingBug, thanks for the advice.
But you might have either misinterpreted or inferred a bit too much into what I said.
Quote:
Originally posted by BlazingBug:
If examples and advice will help, allow me. These quotes are from your first and third posts on this thread (skipping one related to translation alone).Quote:
Kid 10 year old using that kind of language in China also stands around on the corner of the block smoking and beating each other up.
Obviously a reference to "Kids 10 years old using that kind of language in China" and what I know about them. It was indeed a good suggestion to reduce the amount of generalization and to something less. But I didn't make the immediate inference that Leita would do those things - rather I lend it as an impact for the type of things that Kids in China who use that particular phrase (It was a Chinese phrase) do that I know of.
I agree that I don't have hard stats on whether every single Kid 10 years old in China do exactly that. I could have used a better qualifier - thanks for pointing that out. Hyperboles aside.
And I would also not use the word attack, if it was an attack, I would have used better words and a bit more direct.
However, for the rest of it, you have mis-read what I wrote.
Quote:
Originally posted by BlazingBug:
Explanation: It has already been stated that this child used "that kind of language." This statement by you infers that she will also engage in smoking (addictive behavior) and violence. It is therefore by inference an attack on the child's morality.
Advice: First, don't make statements you can't factually support. Second, don't make generalizations because they can never be supported. Third, don't write hastily; that leads you to see your words only within your point of view. That sentence could have had a much less antagonistic meaning if you had just inserted the word "regularly" before "using." More than likely, that's how you saw that sentence, but it isn't what you wrote.Quote:
If I catch my kid even thinking anything like that, we are going to go thru the 12 pack of Irish Spring before we are done.
BlazingBug, I (me) will think abit more about this one, but I am pretty sure this one stands on its own. I pretty clearly use the word "If I" and "we are going to" and "we are done". I might use your suggestion on using "but that's just me", but again, I'm not so sure about the rest. But obviously, at least a few saw/read it that way and generated that feeling...
Quote:
Originally posted by BlazingBug:
Explanation: Once more this reads as an attack. We know the child said this, and we know the parent's response. Stating that in an even lesser situation you would have reacted in a more extreme way is simply an indirect way of condemning that person's actions.
Advice: First, if you are making a point within the context of your situation, always clearly state it as your independent opinion within your comment. Second, hyperbole is only one step away from ridicule; you should always consider this before using it. This sentence would have been much different as, "I would have been more punitive with my child, but that's just me."Quote:
Well... as my kids' Kteacher would put it so diplomatically (When we were applying our kids for the Magnet program) "A lot of parents think their kids are super bright"...
hmm... it's rather difficult with this one. I actually meant to place it in there for context.
I will have to think about this one a bit more as well.
Small difference - but I actually didn't open up that post with that particular phrase, but that's just being picky there - like I said inconsequential and very small minor difference.
Quote:
Originally posted by BlazingBug:
Explanation: After a description of the child's positive points by the parent, you open your reply with this disparaging remark on a parent's ability to assess their own child.NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME