My 10 year old in some FF related trouble
POSTED BY: JustDavid
UPDATED: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 21:57
VIEWED: 20544
PAGE 9 of 9
Zoriah:
First of all, I got your tidbit, but if you could help me out a bit in figuring out how I could sound less "a little proscriptive, didactic and superior". Some selected bits on how yourself might phrase some of the things I've said. Usually, tidbits include a suggestion to improve something or an alternative method. To use my food analogy, "Try a bit of rosemary", or "I've used a bit more cumin before and the chili tasted great". Rather than "That tastes too tart", or "it's a bit saucy, no?", which are criticisms - and criticisms are fine. I just need more help as far as tidbits go, that's all.
I myself have been off of the "Child rearing" tidbit topic for quite sometime. But seems like everyone is all charged up about that and repeatedly brings it up. If the feeling that I conveyed is JustDavid's way is lacking (from the mere several posts that he had, I don't know how anyone can come to that conclusion from that thin sample) that wasn't my intent. However, the prevailing attitude is seems to be that "people can't seem to do *poorly*" and that "doing poorly is bad". Here's my take:
People can do poorly at times. But most times it's not a fault of their own. It's not *bad*. It just means that they need an alternative way or maybe they need a bit more practice.
There is nothing *wrong* in being wrong or doing poorly at all. The problem is people don't want to be *wrong* (they think it's *bad*, you see?)- improvements cannot come without that one realization.
Remember? "Failure is the mother of all inventions?"
I think I've said enough of that front. Unless if there are new thoughts regarding this - I am not really going to repeat anything here.
It is in the best of human interest for us to pool together our resources and gathered knowledge. I share a bit and you share a bit.
I myself think the best kind of advice are what you call "unsolicited" advice. Do you think Nasa engineers can use some "unsolicited" advice now and then? Exactly when we stand to be the most confident about our thoughts and way of thinking is when we should have a through examination of it.
Quote:
Originally posted by Zoriah:
Gives Sigmanunki a virtual hug.
Jasonzzz: Here's me sharing a little tidbit. I'm sorry but from your very first post your tone came across to me as a little proscriptive, didactic and superior. You have asserted that was not your intention, that you were merely offering up your opinion, engaging in discourse. While it was not your intention to sound like you were taking some kind of moral high ground and implying that Justdavid's methods of upbringing were lacking compared to yours - that is the impression I got from your posts.
I do not think that anyone here wants to or condones bringing up a child without guidance and support, however we may disagree on the best approach to achieve the most positive outcome.
Therefore I think that *unsolicited* advice on child-rearing that springs from an implication of perceived shortcomings should be avoided here. If Justdavid had asked for tips or advice on the situation with Leita then I would have no problems with your responses, however I feel that this thread that started out as a cute anecdote about a father and daughter has turned into an unwarranted lecture.
Just my thoughts.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
I gathered that you would be an intellectual from here.
Sarcasm or not, can't tell b/c the tone of your previous messages had become hostile. And below as well.Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Not sure why you felt the need for the dissertation on that part of your background.
You insulted my intellect. It was an attempt to display that not only do I have one, I have what some think to be a damn good one. As in, not just my opinion. Nothing more.
fine, except I didn't insult your intellect. You did self-describe yourself as an intellectual and you have some issues with how your parents didn't do you right. I merely pointed out that intellectual (people well studied) offers evidence and examples rather than slice and dice other's words and offer non-sequitors. Read what I have wrote, provide an alternative theory, then provide supporting evidence or examples.
Again, I am no longer in doubt that you are well priased. Fine, let's move on. I will never understand why Academics are always indulging these kinds of mutual adulation. Some Freudian thing, always seeking peer approval. Nevermind, it's not germaine to the conversation.
Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
I don't think it's honorable to abandon this conversation now, you have drawn me into this and invested quite a bit of time.
I am rather charged right now. Give it a couple weeks and I'll see where I am then. If you're still interested and I'm ok with it we can discuss the finer points through the message system at our user profiles. And if you do, restate your arguments here. I will have forgotten them by that time.
Well, if you are going to, fine. But if it's only a half hearted attempt, nevermind. If you grow tired of it, then it won't be interesting. I would rather not delve on boring things.
Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
So if you are no longer continuing this, then I take to mean that:
0. you can dish out challenges and hack apart other's statements, but you are unwilling to accept like challenges.
1. you have nothing else you could offer - either revisions or further examples.
2. you find nothing further to accurately challenge the basis of my offering.
3. you would just rather be happy sitting at the top of your various pyramids and would rather either not provide mentorship or would rather not be challenged at all.
Funny you only pick the degrading options.
Again, with the snide commentary. Someone as eminent as yourself could provide a bit more help to the downtrodden here. There must be other options then? If you don't name them, then maybe other options do not exist. And if these are the only options, then it doesn't matter if they are degrading or not. Either way, these are the only options.
Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
----
"An airport gives a good cross section of the mentally unstable, doesn't it." -Me
"Also, I can kill you with my brain." -River
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since no one else will take you up on the request to try and restate your advice in what my be considered a more friendly manner, i'm going to give it a shot... Wish me luck!
BTW -- i put in the bit w/the translation just for context, i wouldn't change that.
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Don't know where you got your translations from, but "Ta Ma de..." literally translates to Your/His/Her mama... but used in the same sense and generality as "F*ck" or "S*it"...
Kid 10 year old using that kind of language in China also stands around on the corner of the block smoking and beating each other up. If I catch my kid even thinking anything like that, we are going to go thru the 12 pack of Irish Spring before we are done.
How about -- "That phrase is cetainly not used in polite company. The fact that she cursed in Chinese doesn't negate the fact that she cursed; it just confused those at whom she cursed. I personally would be a bit stricter with my child. I think it's important to nip these kind of things in the bud, but then again, the situation may be drastically different than what i imagine. Nonetheless my child would have tasted Irish Spring before we were done because I would want to make sure that it didn't happen again."
I think that this would have gone over a bit better without having to lose the point of the message, which, as i see it, is that you would have acted differently and perhaps being more strict would be beneficial for the child.
If the conversation started like this it would seem like less of an attack and the other comments may have been taken in the manner you had intended -- friendly advice. just a thought.
I do see your point, but from what was described i think Leita did learn her lesson and probably won't be swearing in any language anytime soon.
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If examples and advice will help, allow me. These quotes are from your first and third posts on this thread (skipping one related to translation alone).
Quote:
Kid 10 year old using that kind of language in China also stands around on the corner of the block smoking and beating each other up.
Explanation: It has already been stated that this child used "that kind of language." This statement by you infers that she will also engage in smoking (addictive behavior) and violence. It is therefore by inference an attack on the child's morality.
Advice: First, don't make statements you can't factually support. Second, don't make generalizations because they can never be supported. Third, don't write hastily; that leads you to see your words only within your point of view. That sentence could have had a much less antagonistic meaning if you had just inserted the word "regularly" before "using." More than likely, that's how you saw that sentence, but it isn't what you wrote.
Quote:
If I catch my kid even thinking anything like that, we are going to go thru the 12 pack of Irish Spring before we are done.
Explanation: Once more this reads as an attack. We know the child said this, and we know the parent's response. Stating that in an even lesser situation you would have reacted in a more extreme way is simply an indirect way of condemning that person's actions.
Advice: First, if you are making a point within the context of your situation, always clearly state it as your independent opinion within your comment. Second, hyperbole is only one step away from ridicule; you should always consider this before using it. This sentence would have been much different as, "I would have been more punitive with my child, but that's just me."
Quote:
Well... as my kids' Kteacher would put it so diplomatically (When we were applying our kids for the Magnet program) "A lot of parents think their kids are super bright"...
Explanation: After a description of the child's positive points by the parent, you open your reply with this disparaging remark on a parent's ability to assess their own child. Only later do you go on to state that you think the parent is handling their child correctly.
Advice: Never open a paragraph with a negative remark and then switch to positive statements. It makes the positive statesments look sarcastic.
Quote:
Leita did what she did b/c she didn't have an existing library of responses for that situation.
Explanation: Once more, you've made an attack out of your statement. The big problem here is that you have directly named the child and as such, the statement can have no other meaning than to refer to her. Then you state your opinion of why she did what she did as fact without any qualifiers whatsoever. Then that causation is based off what the parent should provide the child. Short translation: "You are a bad parent."
Advice: First, the third person is your friend. Second, remember the part about not making statements you can't factually support. Third, you cannot support any absolute statement, so don't make them. Qualifiers are your responsibility, not the reader's.
Hope this helps.
"Wacky fun..."
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ummm... yeah what he said. (that was much better than my attempt. well done BlazingBug!)
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BlazingBug, thanks for the advice.
But you might have either misinterpreted or inferred a bit too much into what I said.
Quote:
Originally posted by BlazingBug:
If examples and advice will help, allow me. These quotes are from your first and third posts on this thread (skipping one related to translation alone).Quote:
Kid 10 year old using that kind of language in China also stands around on the corner of the block smoking and beating each other up.
Obviously a reference to "Kids 10 years old using that kind of language in China" and what I know about them. It was indeed a good suggestion to reduce the amount of generalization and to something less. But I didn't make the immediate inference that Leita would do those things - rather I lend it as an impact for the type of things that Kids in China who use that particular phrase (It was a Chinese phrase) do that I know of.
I agree that I don't have hard stats on whether every single Kid 10 years old in China do exactly that. I could have used a better qualifier - thanks for pointing that out. Hyperboles aside.
And I would also not use the word attack, if it was an attack, I would have used better words and a bit more direct.
However, for the rest of it, you have mis-read what I wrote.
Quote:
Originally posted by BlazingBug:
Explanation: It has already been stated that this child used "that kind of language." This statement by you infers that she will also engage in smoking (addictive behavior) and violence. It is therefore by inference an attack on the child's morality.
Advice: First, don't make statements you can't factually support. Second, don't make generalizations because they can never be supported. Third, don't write hastily; that leads you to see your words only within your point of view. That sentence could have had a much less antagonistic meaning if you had just inserted the word "regularly" before "using." More than likely, that's how you saw that sentence, but it isn't what you wrote.Quote:
If I catch my kid even thinking anything like that, we are going to go thru the 12 pack of Irish Spring before we are done.
BlazingBug, I (me) will think abit more about this one, but I am pretty sure this one stands on its own. I pretty clearly use the word "If I" and "we are going to" and "we are done". I might use your suggestion on using "but that's just me", but again, I'm not so sure about the rest. But obviously, at least a few saw/read it that way and generated that feeling...
Quote:
Originally posted by BlazingBug:
Explanation: Once more this reads as an attack. We know the child said this, and we know the parent's response. Stating that in an even lesser situation you would have reacted in a more extreme way is simply an indirect way of condemning that person's actions.
Advice: First, if you are making a point within the context of your situation, always clearly state it as your independent opinion within your comment. Second, hyperbole is only one step away from ridicule; you should always consider this before using it. This sentence would have been much different as, "I would have been more punitive with my child, but that's just me."Quote:
Well... as my kids' Kteacher would put it so diplomatically (When we were applying our kids for the Magnet program) "A lot of parents think their kids are super bright"...
hmm... it's rather difficult with this one. I actually meant to place it in there for context.
I will have to think about this one a bit more as well.
Small difference - but I actually didn't open up that post with that particular phrase, but that's just being picky there - like I said inconsequential and very small minor difference.
Quote:
Originally posted by BlazingBug:
Explanation: After a description of the child's positive points by the parent, you open your reply with this disparaging remark on a parent's ability to assess their own child.NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME