My 10 year old in some FF related trouble
POSTED BY: JustDavid
UPDATED: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 21:57
VIEWED: 20544
PAGE 6 of 9
jesus punto, why do you sound so angry in you post.
De, iam not saying de. i am saying Duh. as for my translations every site in the chinesse translations on this site say Ta ma Duh as F'me blind as well as (I think insults.com)its another link from this site., there are lot of sites dedicated to firefly chinese. here are some, then maybe we can stop this (what sounds like arguing amongst our selves.)and become freinds.
http://fireflychinese.home.att.net
http://www.insults.net/html/swear/chinese.html
http://ljconstantine.com/fanfic/glossary.htm
the ones i first found i can't find but these should do. the first point i was making was the little girl didn't cuss anybody out. but herself.
even on the show it is used as a " OH my God " way. or "" F' me blind"
peace?
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
just sayin'... Most 10 year olds, let alone girls, DON'T stand up for themselves. Gotta say, you're daughter was right to do so. And BTW you must be doing something right to have such a great girl.
I don't know what 10 year olds you're hanging with, but I have to say that the ones I work with have absolutely no problem standing up for themselves. Or bullying. Or putting each other down. Or looking for a fight. We actually had three girls (9) pin a boy down and start kicking him this week.
Someone earlier mentioned that a 'no touching' rule seems a bit excessive - but I have to say that depending on the district, it is entirely appropriate. Because in my year in schools, I've seen even good natured joking around escalate into some pretty serious violence, occasionally complete with blood.
And on that happy thought: Chinese is cool. Cussing in it at 10 is perhaps less so. In my own opinion.
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wow, thats, well huh, jus make sure she doesnt cuss in chinesse as often, cause then she will turn in 2 me, and thats a bad thing.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tomtba2004:
jesus punto, why do you sound so angry in you post.
No anger, no arguing either. Was it b/c I used all those swear words as examples. Thought I clearly delineated them with quotes...
Just trying to explain what it is.
I think you carry a true sincere misconception on what the phrase "Ta ma de" means, and I hope to offer some help in clearing it up.
Quote:
Originally posted by Tomtba2004:
De, iam not saying de. i am saying Duh. as for my translations every site in the chinesse translations on this site say Ta ma Duh as F'me blind as well as (I think insults.com)its another link from this site., there are lot of sites dedicated to firefly chinese. here are some, then maybe we can stop this (what sounds like arguing amongst our selves.)and become freinds.
http://fireflychinese.home.att.net
So alright. One thing is. While you are reading
this particular site, you should know that each phrase or words has two sections devoted to it. The first section of that particular (Ta Ma Duh) definition is how the subtitles appear in the Firefly show - both the anglicized spelling as well as the "translation" that appeared in the subtitles in the show.
You should know two things:
1. The anglicized spelling used in the subtitle in the show is often offered in a phoenetic form - as in something other than pinyin - and rather inconsistent most times.
2. The "translation" used in the subtitle are often skewed or exaggerated to fit the particular scene.
Now, "ta ma duh" is what the show used for the real pinyin form of the word "Ta Ma De". If you read further in that entry on that website, you will see that the *real* definition (what I would rather call usage) is "Damn it" and various variants.
"F* me blind" was only offered as the translation during the show. I am sure the mood fit the moment. But please don't attempt to take the phrase sound by sound apart and think that "Duh" or "de" = "Blind", etc, etc. It was *not* meant to be a sound by sound translation.
Quote:
Originally posted by Tomtba2004:
http://www.insults.net/html/swear/chinese.html
http://ljconstantine.com/fanfic/glossary.htm
the ones i first found i can't find but these should do. the first point i was making was the little girl didn't cuss anybody out. but herself.
even on the show it is used as a " OH my God " way. or "" F' me blind"
peace?
I couldn't find any particular entry for "Ta ma de" within either of those sites. In any case, what I am trying to convey is that "Ta ma de" is a general utterance, it is neither translated strictly as an insult against oneself or some one else. Depending on the situation, it can be used to:
1. curse out someone
2. curse out the situation in general
3. just a general "holy cow" utterance.
4. if the situation is proper, it might even be used for something like 'F* me'. But really, who uses that English phrase 'F* me' really as an insult against themselves? It's really used as a comment whatever is going on at the moment.
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Actually, I remember hearing the phrase directed at other people (in real life) as well, either directly or in their absence. Typically "Wo cao" is the more self-directed equivalent.
And "ta ma DE" is the correct pinyin spelling of the phrase; "DUH" is prob'ly their attempt at an American-ear-friendly pronunciation guide.
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JustDavid,
I have a 3 year old daughter. If she were 10 and stood up to people picking on her with bilingual cussing, I'd be proud as all get out. Moreover, I'm Chinese, and I disagree with other Chinese speakers on this board that "Ta ma de" is all that offensive.
Unlike many people on this board, I don't have a problem with profanity. Contrary to popular misperception, swearing does not cause kids to hang out on street corners smoking, anymore than listening to heavy metal causes kids to engage in school shootings.
Some parents object to swearing. Some parents have no problems with it. I fully support whatever parental guidelines parents choose to set for their own children. But no one has the right to impose their own values on other people's children, on the presumption that their own values are superior and will improve societal health. That's just bullshit.
For whatever it's worth, I'm proud of your daughter too. :)
Can't Take My Gorram Sky 
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I think that's a lot wrong in this society. Something is going on that clearly with have future repercussions - you should speak up. It's certainly not imposing or an imposition to offer advice, tidbits, aid, and/or suggestions. I would certainly disagree if someone decides to put JustDavid in a headlock and nuggie or pinkbelly him until he does exactly as requested. If my fly is down in public, rarely does anyone approach me and let me know - sure, there is plenty of gawking and avoiding the situation. How about a quick whisper "hey buddy, check your fly"? We all build societal values together - without family close by to help, you and I and eachother is all we've got. Sweeping issues under the rug isn't
going to help any. If we all just sweep the trash off of right in front of our threshold, it just comes right back the next day.
We all have to do our part to help. If it's superior, it's superior. If it's better, it's better. If it's good advice, take it. If it isn't, don't. One does *not* have to slander another's advice. It only shows how closed minded one is. That sort of attitude prevents one from learning and I certainly hope that it isn't being passed on to kids.
If someone offers an advice, listen. Everyone can decide whether to learn it, take it, or not. Judge the advice itself. But don't judge the attitude of offering an advice. How else could we pass knowledge around?
And if you can offer solid and valid scientific proof that:
1. swearing indeed does not cause kids to hang out at the street corner and smoke
2. listening to heavy metal doesn't cause kids to do school shooting
we can end all of those "misconceptions" right now. (and what's the beef with Heavy Metal, is there some sort of societal mar against Heavy Metal or something. Isn't Gangsta and Ska far more dangerous?)
Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
JustDavid,
I have a 3 year old daughter. If she were 10 and stood up to people picking on her with bilingual cussing, I'd be proud as all get out. Moreover, I'm Chinese, and I disagree with other Chinese speakers on this board that "Ta ma de" is all that offensive.
Unlike many people on this board, I don't have a problem with profanity. Contrary to popular misperception, swearing does not cause kids to hang out on street corners smoking, anymore than listening to heavy metal causes kids to engage in school shootings.
Some parents object to swearing. Some parents have no problems with it. I fully support whatever parental guidelines parents choose to set for their own children. But no one has the right to impose their own values on other people's children, on the presumption that their own values are superior and will improve societal health. That's just bullshit.Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
So, by that. You might mean that - if your next door neighbor does various nefarious acts and teaches their young'uns to steal, maim, hurt, kill. It's alright? You fully support how they are raising their kids and the type of parental guidelines that they choose to set for their own children? You very well can choose to do that - just know that those very kids:
1. live right next door - direct and very immediate repercussions for you and your family.
2. goes to the same school with your kids - let's hope your kids are completely impervious to peer pressure and peer learning.
For whatever it's worth, I'm proud of your daughter too. :)
Can't Take My Gorram Sky
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
I think that's a lot wrong in this society. Something is going on that clearly with have future repercussions - you should speak up.
Then Maybe people should worry about more important problems. Such as, the dumping down of school curriculum, the worsening of the "me attitude", crimes becoming more violent, in fact society becoming more violent and disconnected (socially) etc. Swearing is hardly one of these top issues and is most likely a side effect of them.
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
It's certainly not imposing or an imposition to offer advice, tidbits, aid, and/or suggestions.
Depends on what words are used, how they are used and with what vigor they are used. Most of the time people come off a preachy and that spells shutdown for the person they are trying to dispense advice to. Your vigor is getting about that bad area.
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
We all have to do our part to help. If it's superior, it's superior. If it's better, it's better. If it's good advice, take it. If it isn't, don't. One does *not* have to slander another's advice. It only shows how closed minded one is. That sort of attitude prevents one from learning and I certainly hope that it isn't being passed on to kids.
Again, in whose opinion is it superior. Different cultures will have different values in general, never mind the range that that societies people will have.
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
How else could we pass knowledge around?
Mostly this is done from parents to child, school, friends, etc. Not some anonymous guy on a board.
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
And if you can offer solid and valid scientific proof that:
1. swearing indeed does not cause kids to hang out at the street corner and smoke
Everybody that I know swore from time to time and only a handful hung out on the street corner and smoked. If 1) was true then all of the hundreds of kids that I went to high school with would have been there right beside me.
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
2. listening to heavy metal doesn't cause kids to do school shooting
There are studies that show that heavy metal music cause the person to have a lesser IQ and a more aggressive attitude, but, for only a few minutes afterward. Interestingly enough, classical music has that opposite effect for about the same time.
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
(and what's the beef with Heavy Metal, is there some sort of societal mar against Heavy Metal or something. Isn't Gangsta and Ska far more dangerous?)
1) no music is dangerous
2) heavy metal got a bad rap because it is the more extreme form of rock and roll which was demonized before it
----
"If you truly love the memory, you must set it free()!" -Me
"Also, I can kill you with my brain." -River
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Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
I think that's a lot wrong in this society. Something is going on that clearly with have future repercussions - you should speak up.
Then Maybe people should worry about more important problems. Such as, the dumping down of school curriculum, the worsening of the "me attitude", crimes becoming more violent, in fact society becoming more violent and disconnected (socially) etc. Swearing is hardly one of these top issues and is most likely a side effect of them.
We can discuss causation and results. But the solution starts at home. We can work out all of the other problems too - but let's start at home - where the problems are small - and we, arguably, has the most and direct control over it. Schools only provide one small facet of a child's total curriculum. It has been shown that different children using the same curriculum proceed at a different pace not merely b/c of their own personal ability, but b/c of their support system at home. At home is where the big difference is made. At home is where we have the most control and influence. Take away MTV, take away gangsta rap, take away violent movies, take away Big Macs, 24 hour soda fountains, Britney Spears - and the parents *might* have a chance. I am not saying bringing up your child with a whitebread world - those other things do come, they will have to face it eventually. But let's provide the kids with a good stable foundation to be ready to understand and perhaps *appreciate* these things without being completely exploited by them.
(Again with the food analogy) Just like bringing kids into solid food for the first time - one wouldn't sit them in front of a 9 course meal complete with Beef Wellington, Baked Alaska and to finish it off a nice 1943 Port? (Before I get the responses - I am well aware of the possibility that perhaps some people indeedy do this, but let me present the alternative). One would, properly, start off with bland cereal and watered down fruit to get the digestive system and the taste buds ready. Then after several days or scant weeks - move on to some primary flavours, but one flavor at a time, so that:
1. they are not overwhelmed with the sudden strong flavors and get completely turned off by the awfulness and intensity.
2. learn to appreciate and differenciate each new food and flavour.
3. learn whether the kid actually has certain specific food allergy.
One lesson at a time, one thing at a time. Build upon the basis of prior experiences. Reinforce, build, and practice.
In any case, all we really have the most, direct, and immediate control over are things that are right around us. The idea that I have is at least to work on the things that you have the most influence and control over - and worry least about the things that you cannot control in no uncertain terms. People worry about the weather - it's cold, it's hot, it's snowing, it's not raining. They worry about whether they will catch a cold. They worry about world population, earthquakes, world hunger. I ask myself the questions:
1. do I have control over it at all?
2. how can I have an influence over it?
3. what can I do to help/ aid/ solve it?
Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
It's certainly not imposing or an imposition to offer advice, tidbits, aid, and/or suggestions.
Depends on what words are used, how they are used and with what vigor they are used. Most of the time people come off a preachy and that spells shutdown for the person they are trying to dispense advice to. Your vigor is getting about that bad area.
Again, you can use it or don't. I say it like it is. If you have a better way of putting it, I will gladly take your advice. We can all learn together. Way I see it, the problem is on the receiving end and not on the transmitting end (Again, if it's a problem on this end and there is a valid suggestion in improving it - I wi
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JustDavid: Leita sounds like a well adjusted, thoughtful and loving daughter. I hope to be so lucky one day ;)
Where I live (in NZ) profanity is not such a big deal as it seems to be in the US (we use words like damn, bollocks, hell, shit, bugger etc a lot in every day conversation. In my opinion strong cussing once in a while (where appropriate) is not a sign some huge break down in societal values.
What if I happen to like mushy spaghetti and think it's best that way? Or hate italian sausage? If it's my meal to prepare then I'll make it how I think it should be made with the ingredients I think are best. If I want advice on how to make spaghetti another way, then I'll ask. Simple as that ;)
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