Isn't she lovely..........hmmmmmm
POSTED BY: FutureMrsFIllion
UPDATED: Saturday, September 13, 2008 14:12
VIEWED: 7881
PAGE 1 of 2
Alaskans Speak (In A Frightened Whisper): Palin Is “Racist, Sexist, Vindictive, And Mean”
September 5, 2008
by Charley James –
“So Sambo beat the bitch!”
This is how Republican Vice Presidential nominee Sarah Palin described Barack Obama’s win over Hillary Clinton to political colleagues in a restaurant a few days after Obama locked up the Democratic Party presidential nomination.
According to Lucille, the waitress serving her table at the time and who asked that her last name not be used, Gov. Palin was eating lunch with five or six people when the subject of the Democrat’s primary battle came up. The governor, seemingly not caring that people at nearby tables would likely hear her, uttered the slur and then laughed loudly as her meal mates joined in appreciatively.
“It was kind of disgusting,” Lucille, who is part Aboriginal, said in a phone interview after admitting that she is frightened of being discovered telling folks in the “lower 48” about life near the North Pole.
Then, almost with a sigh, she added, “But that’s just Alaska.”
Racial and ethnic slurs may be “just Alaska” and, clearly, they are common, everyday chatter for Palin.
Besides insulting Obama with a Step-N’-Fetch-It, “darkie musical” swipe, people who know her say she refers regularly to Alaska’s Aboriginal people as “Arctic Arabs” – how efficient, lumping two apparently undesirable groups into one ugly description – as well as the more colourful “mukluks” along with the totally unimaginative “f**king Eskimo’s,” according to a number of Alaskans and Wasillians interviewed for this article.
But being openly racist is only the tip of the Palin iceberg. According to Alaskans interviewed for this article, she is also vindictive and mean. We’re talking Rove mean and Nixon vindictive.
No wonder the vast sea of white, cheering faces at the Republican Convention went wild for Sarah: They adore the type, it’s in their genetic code. So much for McCain’s pledge of a “high road” campaign; Palin is incapable of being part of one.
Tough Getting People Who Know Her to Talk
It’s not easy getting people in the 49th state to speak critically about Palin – especially people in Wasilla, where she was mayor. For one thing, with every journalist in the world calling, phone lines into Alaska have been mostly jammed since Friday; as often as not, a recording told me that “all circuits are busy” or numbers just wouldn’t ring. I should think a state that’s been made richer than God by oil could afford telephone lines and cell towers for everyone.
On a more practical level, many people in Alaska, and particularly Wasilla, are reluctant to speak or be quoted by name because they’re afraid of her as well as the state Republican Party machine. Apparently, the power elite are as mean as the winters.
“The GOP is kind of like organized crime up here,” an insurance agent in Anchorage who knows the Palin family, explained. “It’s corrupt and arrogant. They’re all rich because they do private sweetheart deals with the oil companies, and they can destroy anyone. And they will, if they have to.”
“Once Palin became mayor,” he continued, “She became part of that inner circle.”
Like most other people interviewed, he didn’t want his name used out of fear of retribution. Maybe it’s the long winter nights where you don’t see the sun for months that makes people feel as if they’re under constant danger from “the authorities.” As I interviewed residents it began sounding as if living in Alaska controlled by the state Republican Party is like living in the old Soviet Union: See nothing that’s happening, say nothing offensive, and the political commissars leave you alone. But speak out and you get disappeared into a gulag north of the Arctic Circle for who-knows-how-long.
Alright, that’s an exaggeration brought on by my getting too little sleep and building too much anger as I worked this article. But there’s ample evidence of Palin’s vindictive willingness to destroy people she sees as opponents. Just ask the Wasilla town administrator she hired bef
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100 % Pure Liberal B.S.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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And according to numerous “eye-witnesses” in Arkansas the Clinton’s routinely used the word “nigger.”
Of course if we’re really going for character assinating accusations of racism in this campaign, Barack Obama gets that award, since we don’t need second-hand “eye-witnesses” to associate him with racists and terrorists.
You'd think someone who so vividly supports Obama would be a little more mindful of that.
It should be noted that this article seems to come from a blog that has more then a little bias and seems to pride itself on posting supposed second-hand accusations about Palin. The author of this article may be a fictitious name designed to spread lies about Palin:
http://hennessysview.com/2008/09/07/who-is-charley-james/
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Hello,
I find some of the allegations of the article suspicious. Most particularly since I thought Palin was married to one of the natives in question.
I'd be looking to see this from additional sources before I trumpeted it as verity.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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No way could Palin be GOP governor unless she was a crook, a liar and a ho.
After all, British Petroleum owns Alaska and almost all of its oil, for export to Commie China, Japan and Mexico. What's left is pumped back in the ground to keep oil prices high. Gas in Mexico costs 45-cents a gallon. Gas in S America costs 11-cents a gallon. Gas cost 6-cents a gallon in Iraq before the latest invasion to shut off the supply of cheap oil to USA. Now Haliburton imports gas to Iraq for 65-cents a gallon.
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=lindsey+williams&emb=0&aq=0&oq=l
indsey+w#
That's poly ticks - many bloodsucking creatures.
Queen Palin for President of Vice
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"No way could Palin be GOP governor unless she was a crook, a liar and a ho."
Hello,
Does that also apply to representatives in congress like Ron Paul?
I'll reserve judgment.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Quote:We really don't need this kind of suspicious and irrelevant hearsay to determine that Palin isn't up to the task, the words out her mouth can confirm that- this is just mudslinging.
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
You'd think someone who so vividly supports Obama would be a little more mindful of that.
Chrisisall
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The "liberal BS" quoting official Wasilla Budget Reports proves Palin is a weak leader who's controlled by the robber barons. She's the faceman for their shell games.
Ron Paul is a rare breed who says NO to govt spending and borrowing and counterfeiting.
But something very odd happened to Dr NO's presidential campaign. No national campaign ads. Ads that censored his anti-IRS anti-income tax platform. Ads and campaign signs that made him sound like any other politician. Gay NeoCons ran his campaign, with his manager dying of AIDS a couple months ago. How convenient now that $20-million is missing...
Quote:
www.republicbroadcasting.org/index.php?cmd=archives
THE OFFICER JACK MCLAMB PROGRAM
Archived Shows in September of 2008
SUNDAY, SEPTEMBER 7, 2008
MP3 Files: Hour 1, Hour 2
Playlist Files: PLS M3U
Due to technical difficulties the archives are corrupted but will be corrected by September 9, 2008
Hour 1: Jack discusses recent news in the republican party.
Hour 2: Guest: Steve Martin
Discussion on the Ron Paul campaign, questions raised.
Martin pointed out that for RP to be ignorant of infiltration of his campaign by neocons proved he was incompetent to be president. Or worse, RP never had intention of winning and subverted his own campaign.
Infiltration of opposition "grass roots" organizations is standard procedure for political mafias, and cop cointelpro. Here in Knoxville TN, county property owners and homeowners associations banded together to stop "predatory annexation" by the city, which doubled taxes without representation. So our gay Skull & Bones NeoCon mayor had his non-resident brownshirts infiltrate the org and literally steal their $250,000 legal fund. Now that mayor and RNC delegate is ambassador to Poland, aiming nukes at Russia and torturing CIA prisoners.
Quote:
"You WILL pay any tax increase I tell you to pay! You CAN afford it!"
Skull & Bones mayor/ambassador Victor "Victoria" Ashe, Knoxville city council, October 2000 (re predatory annexation increasing corporate taxes $500,000 per business)
"Sitting on Council, I was in the presence of evil. There was just darkness. Hopelessness."
Knoxville councilmember Carlene Malone, Metro Pulse, "Malone Alone", December 13, 2001
"Knoxville must be the most corrupt city on earth. People worry about the national government but it's the local government people need to fear."
City Councilmember Carlene Malone to Pirate News TV
Martin points out that if RP wanted to re-enter the race - and explain these problems in public - he could still win the presidency, thanks to massive grass-roots talent.
RNC refuses to count RP delegates at Non-Con 2008
www.dailypaul.com/node/60361
RNC and Secret Service shake down RP delegates, confiscate buttons
www.dailynewscaster.com/2008/09/04/secret-service-confiscates-books-bu
tton-from-ron-paul-delegates/
Video: Ron Paul's speech at RP Convention 2008 in St Paul
www.dailypaul.com/node/60063
www.campaignforliberty.org
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Please do Anthony - I've been doing some of my own digging in that respect, and what I have found and verified is certainly unpleasant enough.
One my few contacts in Alaska is from the region, and personally confirms the library incident, which is, in my sole opinion, THE most damning condemnation against her.
Most of this crap I don't care about, but that one is a clear indicator of serious trouble.
Oh, and the next time any knuckle-draggin, kool-aid chuggin, sawtoothed redneck proud to be ignorant neocon jackboot sympathizer shitheel has the nerve to utter the words "Liberal BS"...
Better show me those WMDs first, or how bout the corpse of Osama Bin Laden (aka Tim Osman), or how bout Gas prices under $1.00 or maybe those crowds of cheering, flower throwing iraqis, maybe some mobile weapons labs, or a balanced budget, open government or any one of the endless trail of broken promises and lies shovelled like an endless wave of fertilizer by hard right conserva-tards whos fanatic gullibility causes them to swallow even the most pathetically obvious BS if you candy coat it with the party line.
Lest you forget, it was those "damn lying liberals" who didn't buy into any of that bullshit in the first place, and now as the GOP lines up another shovel load, there you are with gaping gullet and empty eyes.
You'd think people would have the sense to be skeptical of BOTH parties, given how fulla shit they are, but I find it seriously offensive when people are too fucking stupid to question their own.
That leads down paths I would really not like to travel, folks.
It is certain that today every honest German is ashamed of his government. Who among us has any conception of the dimensions of shame that will befall us and our children when one day the veil has fallen from our eyes and the most horrible of crimes ... reach the light of day?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Rose
That's where unthinking party loyalty leads, and those marching in step to THAT tune are the collaborators and enablers that allow monsters to rise to power.
And I'll not have it here, by no means.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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Well, if Lucille, the waitress said it, it must be true.
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Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
by Charley James –
This guy is a slightly more successful version of PirateNews.
The story is a lie. I don't know if the lie is from Mr. James or to Mr. James...I don't think it matters.
If he can't prove it he should not write it. If he can, then his evidence should be readily available.
It is nonsense. For one thing...Alaskans don't whisper in fear about anything. They're tuff folks...watch Deadliest Catch http://www.amazon.com/Deadliest-Catch-Season-Disc-Set/dp/B000LPS2TK/re
f=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1220900866&sr=8-1
or
Snow Dogs http://www.amazon.com/Snow-Dogs-Cuba-Gooding-Jr/dp/B00005JKVU/ref=sr_1
_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1220900898&sr=1-1
And if Sarah Palin would casually say something like that once...she'd have said it again and it'd be all over Youtube. Frankly if that kind of thing does exist, they liberal dirt divers have not had a chance to find it yet...its been too quick and they simply don't have the resources in Alaska to dig deep.
That means they made it up...just like all the other dirt and mud they've been flinging. And the more they fling the cleaner she gets because now...if they do find something...nobody will believe it cause the credibility wagon has sailed on the Sarah-haters.
So attack her experiance...well, she's got more the Barrack. Attack her policies...well, they seem to be good for Alaska. Make fun of her appearance...well, folk seem to like it ( http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-ig-notebook7-2008sep07,0,75850
60.story). Attack her for being a woman, wait...they're Democrats, they love woman leaders. They seem to have a bit of a Sarah problem...which I suspect is the reason McCain picked her.
H
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Quote:
If he can't prove it he should not write it. If he can, then his evidence should be readily available.
I could make the same claim of your drivel. Where is your evidence? Where is your proof? If you can't prove it, you shouldn't write it, eh? You've said he's a liar and his work is all lies - can you PROVE that?
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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Quote:The onus is on James to provide evidence for his article. He is none. At most he has hearsay, which quite frankly is probably a lie, at some point. Nonetheless, it is up to James to confirm his own story, not Hero or me or you or anyone else. I promise you that I could write a story about Obama in which I stated as fact the things many people have said, and I could make him look like a raving lunatic. Funny, I’m willing to bet you’d not let me get away without providing my own proof, so why do you do it to Palin?
Originally posted by Kwicko:
I could make the same claim of your drivel. Where is your evidence? Where is your proof? If you can't prove it, you shouldn't write it, eh? You've said he's a liar and his work is all lies - can you PROVE that?
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:Quote:The onus is on James to provide evidence for his article. He is none. At most he has hearsay, which quite frankly is probably a lie, at some point. Nonetheless, it is up to James to confirm his own story, not Hero or me or you or anyone else. I promise you that I could write a story about Obama in which I stated as fact the things many people have said, and I could make him look like a raving lunatic. Funny, I’m willing to bet you’d not let me get away without providing my own proof, so why do you do it to Palin?
Originally posted by Kwicko:
I could make the same claim of your drivel. Where is your evidence? Where is your proof? If you can't prove it, you shouldn't write it, eh? You've said he's a liar and his work is all lies - can you PROVE that?
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
Hello,
I agree with Finn here. The claimant must provide the evidence, not the defending party.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Quote:
I agree with Finn here. The claimant must provide the evidence, not the defending party.
Which is what I was asking for - Hero made the claim that these are all "lies" - hence he became the claimant. I asked for cites for his assertions, or evidence to support his claims.
In a court of law, if you are accused of libel or slander, it is incumbent upon the accuser to prove his case, more than on you to disprove it, is it not?
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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Hello,
Curious turnaround. But I'll still stick with him.
Because the proper response when someone accuses someone else of something is this:
"Oh yeah? I don't believe you. Prove it."
It's the whole innocent until proven guilty mindset, and it was well executed. Now you're saying, "You don't believe him? He's a liar? Prove it!" Which is a nice turnaround, but not really a very good way to handle it in my opinion.
So I'll reserve judgment, and so should you, until this is backed up from additional sources.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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In Federal and State Rules of Evidence, hearsay is allowed as evidence in court. One exception to the hearsay exclusion is "excited utterance", another is "detrimental statement".
Palin calling Obama "Sambo" would be allowed as evidence in court.
So would Laay Sinclair's testimony that Obama told him to suck his protuberance and pass the crack pipe.
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Quote:Actually, they both should. If hero said, back that up, he's not making a claim, but he did make a claim, he claimed that the opening claim was a lie. If they're both making claims, they both should back them up.
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,
I agree with Finn here. The claimant must provide the evidence, not the defending party.
--Anthony
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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I've been saying it now for 11 days.....every time some Liberal or Democrat foams at the mouth and besmirches Sarah, she and McCain go up in popularity. From 7 points down to USA/Gallop's 10 points up. That's a lot more than a convention bump...that's the start of an avalanche. Obama has gone from just one Reverand Wright to now hundreds, and although his campaign desperately wants the Palin bashing stopped for obvious reasons (well, obvious at least to anyone with a brain or some political saavy), they can't stop it. And the liars and character assassins cannot control themselves either. It's just a perfect scenario for McCain & Palin to waltz into the White House.
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Quote:
So I'll reserve judgment, and so should you, until this is backed up from additional sources.
If you notice, I haven't offered any judgment on this. It reads to me like one of those chain e-mails that pop up - you know, like the one that got posted here about Obama being a Muslim!
I haven't offered an opinion on the piece one way or the other. That puts me pretty squarely in the minority here, it looks like. From the local loony-right, we get these opinions, none of which are backed up by a single "fact":
From AuRaptor:
Quote:
100 % Pure Liberal B.S.
So, not only is it a lie, in his book, but a LIBERAL lie, to boot.
From Finn comes this gem:
Quote:
And according to numerous “eye-witnesses” in Arkansas the Clinton’s routinely used the word “nigger.”
Not explicitly calling it a lie, just trying to deflect with something even more inflammatory.
And then Hero offers us this rationalization:
Quote:
The story is a lie. I don't know if the lie is from Mr. James or to Mr. James...I don't think it matters.
So he KNOWS it's a lie, but doesn't know how. And doesn't think it matters.
You'll note that these are the same three posters who insisted that if Bush didn't know the WMD thing was a lie, then he didn't technically lie about WMD. Only he did. Whether it was a lie he told, or a lie told to him, it doesn't really matter, does it, Hero?
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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Quote:
It's the whole innocent until proven guilty mindset...
Yes, it IS the whole innocent-until-proven-guilty mindset. Hero and AuRaptor have explicitly called the original article a lie, and the author a liar, and have offered not one scintilla of proof to back that up. And that's just typical of the Republican mindset; someone writes something unflattering about you, you try to destroy them, personally. Call them a liar, but offer no evidence.
Is the article in question a lie? I have no way of knowing. I haven't hailed it as the absolute truth, and I haven't derided it as a scurrilous lie, either. The real truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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Quote:
Obama has gone from just one Reverand Wright to now hundreds...
That's a lie. It's pure conservative BS.
Eyewitnesses said McCain called Obama a "nigger".
There. Now, according to the prevailing logic around here, the onus is on YOU to prove me wrong.
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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Quote:That is not the “prevailing logic.” That is your logic.
Originally posted by Kwicko:
There. Now, according to the prevailing logic around here, the onus is on YOU to prove me wrong.
According to YOUR logic I can accept as true:
"Obama has gone from just one Reverand Wright to now hundreds..."
Because the Onus is on YOU to prove it wrong, and you haven't done so.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:Quote:That is not the “prevailing logic.” That is your logic.
Originally posted by Kwicko:
There. Now, according to the prevailing logic around here, the onus is on YOU to prove me wrong.
According to YOUR logic I can accept as true:
"Obama has gone from just one Reverand Wright to now hundreds..."
Because the Onus is on YOU to prove it wrong, and you haven't done so.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
Don't waste a minute of your life trying to converse or debate with him....he's like all the rest. The following was taken from a media article today ...
"We need to throw every last molecule of shit we've got at McCain and Palin," said a poster at the Democratic Underground. "Demonize them. Dehumanize them."
Panic brings out the ugliness in ugly people. And ugliness of this sort is not restricted to moonbat bloggers.
"In the press galleries at the convention, journalists wrinkled their noses in disgust when Piper, Ms. Palin's youngest daughter, was filmed kitty-licking her baby brother's hair in place," wrote David Carr in the New York Times Sunday.
The sewer that is the left-wing blogosphere pumps its bilge directly into the "mainstream" media. "People say yes, she looks good in a bikini clutching an AK-47, but is she equipped to run the country?" asked CNN reporter Lola Ogunnaike, referring, as if it were true, to a crude photoshop on left wing blogs that imposed Ms. Palin's face on someone else's body.
Sarah Palin's approval rating in Alaska last month was 81.6 percent. That means for every person who doesn't like Ms. Palin, there are four who do. But reporters seem only to quote her political enemies, without identifying them as such.
Media honchos say they're just doing due diligence."
They're pathetic & hopeless. And when Obama goes down in flames they're really gonna lose it.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
I could make the same claim of your drivel. Where is your evidence? Where is your proof? If you can't prove it, you shouldn't write it, eh? You've said he's a liar and his work is all lies - can you PROVE that?
I didn't write the story. The burdon of proof is on the author or the article.
H
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
In a court of law, if you are accused of libel or slander, it is incumbent upon the accuser to prove his case, more than on you to disprove it, is it not?
Libel and slander are civil actions. In such a case the accuser has the right to discovery. Discovery rules would force the author/defendant to produce his evidence and sources for examination by the accuser. If he can't (or wont) then that can be used as evidence that such evidence did not exist.
That means that the proof is the other person's lack of proof.
Don't forget, in a Civil Action a person cannot refuse to testify. My first witness representing the accuser in such a trial would be the Defendant.
H
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Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:
Palin calling Obama "Sambo" would be allowed as evidence in court.
Only in direct testimony from the person who heard it. There would be no 'I heard from a lady who says she heard Palin say'. It would have to be 'I heard Palin say'.
And somehow I doubt the actual witness exists or if she does I suspect that there would be a dozen other people who'd say...didn't happen, there'd be proof she (Palin) was never there, etc. You know...cause its all a lie.
H
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Ive stopped paying attention to what each of the candidates supposidly said....
Im sure you can find someone who would testify to B.O. saying "If I'm in power, Im gonna make whitey pay!"
Or McCain, "If Im in power I'm gonna make those slopes pay!"
Im so sick of politics.
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Quote:
And somehow I doubt the actual witness exists or if she does I suspect that there would be a dozen other people who'd say...didn't happen, there'd be proof she (Palin) was never there, etc. You know...cause its all a lie.
Weren't you one of the ones who fervently believed that Obama was in church when Reverend Wright made his fiery sermons demonizing the U.S.?
Even when there was PROOF that he wasn't there - in fact, was over 1000 miles away.
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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Well Wulf, there's always this guy.
You weren't here for it, but I actually owe Sharpton one for his assistance with the Genarlow Wilson case, he was pretty helpful, and without a lot of the grandstanding he's generally known for.
And I pay my debts.
-F
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Sharpton is probably one of the single biggest influences in holding down black people.
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Quote:
Don't waste a minute of your life trying to converse or debate with him....he's like all the rest. The following was taken from a media article today ...
"We need to throw every last molecule of shit we've got at McCain and Palin," said a poster at the Democratic Underground. "Demonize them. Dehumanize them."
Ah, yes... Dehumanize & demonize, the two top rules out of Karl Rove's "Rules for a Better Amerika".
What, you don't like it when we play by your rules?
I've seen Obama variously attacked over the last several months here as a Muslim, an Arab, a "spook", a "monkey", a "lawn jockey", a socialist, a communist, a terrorist, and anything else you and your kind can think to throw at him.
I really shouldn't waste a minute of my life trying to converse with you; you're like "all the rest" of them on the right.
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:Quote:Actually, they both should. If hero said, back that up, he's not making a claim, but he did make a claim, he claimed that the opening claim was a lie. If they're both making claims, they both should back them up.
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,
I agree with Finn here. The claimant must provide the evidence, not the defending party.
--Anthony
I proclaim the claims are left unstated AND demand a rematch!
StipeNotChrisIsAllIt was like that when we got here!
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Quote:
Actually, they both should. If hero said, back that up, he's not making a claim, but he did make a claim, he claimed that the opening claim was a lie. If they're both making claims, they both should back them up.
Exactly. If he said, "I don't believe that" then that's all fine and good. But if you're going to ACCUSE the person of lying, or outright call them a liar, it becomes YOUR responsibility to prove your claim.
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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Hello,
Are we making a distinction between saying, "I don't believe that what you are saying is the truth"
and
"You are a liar?"
I suppose the second statement is more offensive, and ought to be avoided.
However, I still think that if I say "Margaret Thatcher was a Nazi Jew,"
and someone else says, "You're a liar, prove it!"
The onus is actually on me, since I leveled the initial accusation.
Otherwise we end up with, "You're calling me a liar?! That's a lie!"
which can be responded with,
"You're calling ME a liar?! That's a lie!"
Which really just goes in circles with no one ever required to stop and provide evidence. Actually, that sounds a lot like our political debates. Two people pointing fingers at each other across an aisle shouting, "No, YOU are the liar!"
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,
Are we making a distinction between saying, "I don't believe that what you are saying is the truth"
Actually, I'm making a distinction between a request and a claim. "Have you got any evidence for that?" is a request, "You're a liar!" is a claim.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:
Actually, I'm making a distinction between a request and a claim. "Have you got any evidence for that?" is a request, "You're a liar!" is a claim.
Exactly!
As Geezer is fond of saying, "Cites, please." It IMPLIES that he doesn't believe you, but it in no way calls you a liar. It asks for evidence, but doesn't insist that you have none.
Put it this way:
If Bush comes on the TV and says "Mission accomplished", and I post on here that he's lying and he's full of shit, do you think there's even a slight chance that I'm not going to be asked to "prove it"?
What you're saying is that, for every claim and news story posted by the righties, all I have to do is call bullshit on it, and it's on them to prove me wrong. And if I call bullshit on their proof, it's on them to provide more proof.
Several people on this thread called the original story's author a liar, and the stories complete BS. I asked them to provide evidence to back their claims, which has decidedly NOT been forthcoming.
If you post up a press release from the White House, and I immediately call it a lie and pure 100% bullshit, then is it the White House's responsibility to prove me wrong? Or is it MY responsibility to prove THEM wrong? 'Cuz if that's the case, then I'll just start posting "Bullshit. Pure lies." to everything Hero, 'Rap, and Finn care to put up here. Let them try to prove me wrong...
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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Guys...seriously...chill out.
ALL politicians are liars. We know this.
Why argue it?
The truth is only what you can hold in your hand.
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Quote:But when it comes right down to it, many are unable or unwilling to enter into the honest, detailed, data-driven discussions which are often the only way to sort out truth from fiction. For example, Rapo and I have had many discussions about the economy and WMD. But when his points are punctured one by one with data, he goes off in a huff, only to re-appear with the same bull that was disproved just a few threads before. Finn has a very difficult time explaining what he thinks because he operates with idealized, compartmentalized concepts, but gets frustrated when the edge of one idealized concept (anti-abortion, value of human life) conflicts with another (war, death penalty). When messy reality conflicts with idealized vision, he goes off in a huff. Geezer, OTOH, often acts like a solid disinformatinalist. He uses every trick in the book: Innuendo, strawman, distraction, insistence on perfection, etc. to prevent or frustrate productive discussion.
Which really just goes in circles with no one ever required to stop and provide evidence. Actually, that sounds a lot like our political debates. Two people pointing fingers at each other across an aisle shouting, "No, YOU are the liar!"
I'm all for discussion. I'm be happy to provide cites, and quotes, and data as much as anyone wants. But what comes to mind when I try to lay out data is Pearls before swine because, really, MOST people are not objective or rational. They're only interested in protecting their precious ideologies and staying in their comfort zone. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but that's one of the things I've learned here at fff.net.
---------------------------------
Any idea, no matter how much you may agree with it, can be radicalized and employed as an excuse for violence. There is no such thing as a righteous or untouchable philosophy, and when you start thinking that there is, you have become an extremist.- Finn Mac Cumhal
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I've been saying it now for 11 days.....every time some Liberal or Democrat foams at the mouth and besmirches Sarah, she and McCain go up in popularity. From 7 points down to USA/Gallop's 10 points up. That's a lot more than a convention bump...that's the start of an avalanche. Obama has gone from just one Reverand Wright to now hundreds, and although his campaign desperately wants the Palin bashing stopped for obvious reasons (well, obvious at least to anyone with a brain or some political saavy), they can't stop it. And the liars and character assassins cannot control themselves either. It's just a perfect scenario for McCain & Palin to waltz into the White House.
Jongs,
McCain and Obama were in a statistical dead-heat before Denver, then Obmana got a bump that put him some 10 points ahead. Now, McCain's got the bump and they're in a statistical dead-heat again. People talk about momentum after a week. That's not momentum. That's still just the bump.
I understand that before the RNC McCain looked dead in the water. I understand that no one expected him to regain what he'd lost. But just because he's exceeded expectations (or rather his party machine dropping the Palin bomb has), doesn't mean he's got momentum in anyone's mind but the the people who were rooting for him in the first place.
We'll all see if Palin has what it takes to carry the ticket (when was the last time that a VP carried the ticket--or had to? Good luck with that!). Just as instantaneously as her star has risen, it can fall. That the press is acting like monkeys at a poo party, is nothing new and, like monkeys, they'll get tired of it pretty quick. You're crowing about "11 days" like it's an eternity, but it's not. It's a week and a half.
And again, calling a Governor "the most beloved" while she's in the first year and a half of her first term in office, after defeating a corrupt incumbent in a state with the populations of a large city is pretty pathetic and of course aggressively misleading. But "aggressively misleading" is the name of the GOP game, isn't it? Enjoy the confusion Palin's thrown into the race while it lasts.
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Guys...seriously...chill out.
ALL politicians are liars. We know this.
Why argue it?
The truth is only what you can hold in your hand.
I don't disagree with you...
the problems arise when you just accept the lies you are told without looking for the truth...
that is how we got into Iraq: Bush lied to us and we all accepted it (we meaning all the newspapers, TV news, Congress, and EVERYONE just believed the lies we were told) Interestingly Barack Obama did see beyond those lies and said we shouldn't go into Iraq.
The housing crisis came from the Republicans saying that deregulating banking was a good thing... and it lead directly to predatory loans which speculators thought would make them rich even if the buyers end up losing their homes.... They couldn't foresee that the bottom would drop out of the housing market and the bad mortgages would damage our economy... BECAUSE PEOPLE IN THE US WERE JUST WILLING TO TRUST THAT THE ADMINISTRATION KNEW WHAT IT WAS DOING!
We cannot trust politicians, we seriously need to try to find out the truth, by ourselves if we cannot trust the corporate owned newspapers and cable TV news.
New Firefly fans should check this out: http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=2&t=15816
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Yeah, this defeatist "all politicians lie" thing serves only to confuse the really big lies (WMD's) with the really lame lies (I did not have sex with that woman). "All politician's lie" is about as useful as "all parents lie" or simply "everybody lies." Sorry, but not everybody lies and even of those that do, some lie about silly or personal things and others lie people to their deaths.
The Dem's at their convention took a lot of pains to be more or less factual in their speeches, and the press complained "Where's the red meat?" and "workman-like, but not inspiring." Then the speechifiers at the RNC just went completely off the rails, stringing together one simplistic lie upon another, like "Obama wants to raise your taxes! I want to lower them!" or "I said, thanks, but no thanks!" (and kept the money). And the press crows "There's the red meat we wanted!" Forget that fact checking the RNC speeches is like spell checking an 8th grade dyslexic's term paper. Everybody lies--liars rejoice!
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I've been saying it now for 11 days.....every time some Liberal or Democrat foams at the mouth and besmirches Sarah, she and McCain go up in popularity. From 7 points down to USA/Gallop's 10 points up. That's a lot more than a convention bump...that's the start of an avalanche. Obama has gone from just one Reverand Wright to now hundreds, and although his campaign desperately wants the Palin bashing stopped for obvious reasons (well, obvious at least to anyone with a brain or some political saavy), they can't stop it. And the liars and character assassins cannot control themselves either. It's just a perfect scenario for McCain & Palin to waltz into the White House.
Jongs,
McCain and Obama were in a statistical dead-heat before Denver, then Obmana got a bump that put him some 10 points ahead. Now, McCain's got the bump and they're in a statistical dead-heat again. People talk about momentum after a week. That's not momentum. That's still just the bump.
I understand that before the RNC McCain looked dead in the water. I understand that no one expected him to regain what he'd lost. But just because he's exceeded expectations (or rather his party machine dropping the Palin bomb has), doesn't mean he's got momentum in anyone's mind but the the people who were rooting for him in the first place.
We'll all see if Palin has what it takes to carry the ticket (when was the last time that a VP carried the ticket--or had to? Good luck with that!). Just as instantaneously as her star has risen, it can fall. That the press is acting like monkeys at a poo party, is nothing new and, like monkeys, they'll get tired of it pretty quick. You're crowing about "11 days" like it's an eternity, but it's not. It's a week and a half.
And again, calling a Governor "the most beloved" while she's in the first year and a half of her first term in office, after defeating a corrupt incumbent in a state with the populations of a large city is pretty pathetic and of course aggressively misleading. But "aggressively misleading" is the name of the GOP game, isn't it? Enjoy the confusion Palin's thrown into the race while it lasts.
HKCavalier
HK...you make some valid points, and I like your style and sense of fairness. I do have major dis-agreements with most of your post however. I just don't think that RWED is the place to try to win a debate. It's totally pointless. My facts are your lies, and your facts are my lies. I don't engage directly with the other side usually because no one is going to change anyone's views at all. I just want to post a few times a day my feelings on the races or other posts. People can read them and respond or not. Thanks, Jong
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Quote:Jongsstraw, there is only one reality. Facts don't turn into lies depending on how you look at them, only opinion does.
My facts are your lies, and your facts are my lies
Just as an aside, I don't think "truth" and "lie" are exact opposities. "Truth" - IMHO- is what happens when you try to reach a better understanding of the real world. "Lie" is what happens when you deliberately mistate the truth. But in-between there is misunderstanding. I don't call that a "lie", I call that a "mistake".
---------------------------------
Any idea, no matter how much you may agree with it, can be radicalized and employed as an excuse for violence. There is no such thing as a righteous or untouchable philosophy, and when you start thinking that there is, you have become an extremist.- Finn Mac Cumhal
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:Quote:Jongsstraw, there is only one reality. Facts don't turn into lies depending on how you look at them, only opinion does.
My facts are your lies, and your facts are my lies
Just as an aside, I don't think "truth" and "lie" are exact opposities. "Truth" - IMHO- is what happens when you try to reach a better understanding of the real world. "Lie" is what happens when you deliberately mistate the truth. But in-between there is misunderstanding. I don't call that a "lie", I call that a "mistake".
Agreed...let's call them mistakes or factual errors, because I don't believe that most here lie. And sometimes there is no one infallable truth to a situation, only individual perceptions of the same situation.
Also, there can be a situation where both sides see the same truth. They can differ however on whether that accpeted truth is a good thing or bad thing. And that's the human part of the equation.
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Good thing I was sittin' down 'cause otherwise I would have fallen down! Jongsstraw, you and I AGREE!!!
---------------------------------
Any idea, no matter how much you may agree with it, can be radicalized and employed as an excuse for violence. There is no such thing as a righteous or untouchable philosophy, and when you start thinking that there is, you have become an extremist.- Finn Mac Cumhal
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Hello,
For my own part, I will try to stick with language like 'skeptical' when discussing someone's claims, rather than calling the claims a lie until proven true.
As was pointed out, people can be wrong for a variety of reasons, and the rightness or wrongness of something can 'change' as more data comes in. Saying something is a lie is akin to calling the speaker a liar, which is something they may not really be. And I prefer to avoid insults in any event.
So I will try to remember this lesson learned and proceed henceforth to greater cooperation and understanding.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Quote:
As Geezer is fond of saying, "Cites, please." It IMPLIES that he doesn't believe you, but it in no way calls you a liar. It asks for evidence, but doesn't insist that you have none.
Exactly, I might passionately disagree with him on some stuff, but at least he's willing to weigh the evidence - that of course means one should offer some.
As for the rest, we might share the same reality, but my way of lookin at it's probably sideways to yours.
That's ok too, the more viewpoints you look at something from, the clearer the picture.
It's when dipwads throw paint on the windows that I get pissed off.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Good thing I was sittin' down 'cause otherwise I would have fallen down! Jongsstraw, you and I AGREE!!!
Oh lord! What do we do now?
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Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
Alaskans Speak (In A Frightened Whisper): Palin Is “Racist, Sexist, Vindictive, And Mean”
September 5, 2008
by Charley James –
“So Sambo beat the bitch!”
This is how Republican Vice Presidential nominee Sarah Palin described Barack Obama’s win over Hillary Clinton to political colleagues in a restaurant a few days after Obama locked up the Democratic Party presidential nomination.
According to Lucille, the waitress serving her table at the time and who asked that her last name not be used, Gov. Palin was eating lunch with five or six people when the subject of the Democrat’s primary battle came up. The governor, seemingly not caring that people at nearby tables would likely hear her, uttered the slur and then laughed loudly as her meal mates joined in appreciatively.
“It was kind of disgusting,” Lucille, who is part Aboriginal, said in a phone interview after admitting that she is frightened of being discovered telling folks in the “lower 48” about life near the North Pole.
Then, almost with a sigh, she added, “But that’s just Alaska.”
Racial and ethnic slurs may be “just Alaska” and, clearly, they are common, everyday chatter for Palin.
Besides insulting Obama with a Step-N’-Fetch-It, “darkie musical” swipe, people who know her say she refers regularly to Alaska’s Aboriginal people as “Arctic Arabs” – how efficient, lumping two apparently undesirable groups into one ugly description – as well as the more colourful “mukluks” along with the totally unimaginative “f**king Eskimo’s,” according to a number of Alaskans and Wasillians interviewed for this article.
But being openly racist is only the tip of the Palin iceberg. According to Alaskans interviewed for this article, she is also vindictive and mean. We’re talking Rove mean and Nixon vindictive.
No wonder the vast sea of white, cheering faces at the Republican Convention went wild for Sarah: They adore the type, it’s in their genetic code. So much for McCain’s pledge of a “high road” campaign; Palin is incapable of being part of one.
Tough Getting People Who Know Her to Talk
It’s not easy getting people in the 49th state to speak critically about Palin – especially people in Wasilla, where she was mayor. For one thing, with every journalist in the world calling, phone lines into Alaska have been mostly jammed since Friday; as often as not, a recording told me that “all circuits are busy” or numbers just wouldn’t ring. I should think a state that’s been made richer than God by oil could afford telephone lines and cell towers for everyone.
On a more practical level, many people in Alaska, and particularly Wasilla, are reluctant to speak or be quoted by name because they’re afraid of her as well as the state Republican Party machine. Apparently, the power elite are as mean as the winters.
“The GOP is kind of like organized crime up here,” an insurance agent in Anchorage who knows the Palin family, explained. “It’s corrupt and arrogant. They’re all rich because they do private sweetheart deals with the oil companies, and they can destroy anyone. And they will, if they have to.”
“Once Palin became mayor,” he continued, “She became part of that inner circle.”
Like most other people interviewed, he didn’t want his name used out of fear of retribution. Maybe it’s the long winter nights where you don’t see the sun for months that makes people feel as if they’re under constant danger from “the authorities.” As I interviewed residents it began sounding as if living in Alaska controlled by the state Republican Party is like living in the old Soviet Union: See nothing that’s happening, say nothing offensive, and the political commissars leave you alone. But speak out and you get disappeared into a gulag north of the Arctic Circle for who-knows-how-long.
Alright, that’s an exaggeration brought on by my getting too little sleep and building too much anger as I worked this article. But there’s ample evidence of Palin’s vindictive willingness to destroy people she sees as opponents. JusNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
*watches the thread drop dead as the final stake is driven by the presence of Jack*
Threadkiller!
*hisssss*
*snicker*
-F
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Ok
I have just had the pleasure of reading some of Palin's interview with Charles Gibson as well as seeing some of the video and if this woman is qualified to be VP then I am qualified to do brain surgery.
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"
FORSAKEN original
“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi
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Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
Ok
I have just had the pleasure of reading some of Palin's interview with Charles Gibson as well as seeing some of the video and if this woman is qualified to be VP then I am qualified to do brain surgery.
Cites please.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
Ok
I have just had the pleasure of reading some of Palin's interview with Charles Gibson as well as seeing some of the video and if this woman is qualified to be VP then I am qualified to do brain surgery.
Cites please.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
I sighted her and IMHO she sounded like a doofus
eta: all I could think of while she was talking was that poor Miss South Carolina.....
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"
FORSAKEN original
“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
I might passionately disagree with him on some stuff, but at least he's willing to weigh the evidence - that of course means one should offer some.
Fremd. I don't think we disagree on all that much. It's just that I'm maybe not quite as militant and tend to give the benefit of the doubt. Probably has something to do with our life experience to this point, since apparently the almost 60 years of mine hasn't been nearly as 'interesting' as yours.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Holy crap, FMF--I figgered she'd be pretty weasley in her interview but this requires a whole new level of weasley--maybe...erminey? Or pine martenny?
Did you get her answer about whether she asked herself if she was ready to be President when McCain chose her? "I didn't hesitate, no, I answered him yes because I have the confidence in that readiness. And knowing that you can't blink, you have to be wired in a way of being so committed to the mission, the mission we're on...(emphasis mine)"
Holy crap! I guess pit-bulls have any vestiges of self-reflection and humility bred right out of them. What a pathetic fraud.
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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and I DIDN"T BLINK!
ROFLMAO!
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"
FORSAKEN original
“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi
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and you can SEE Russia from Alaska!
OMG it was so funny!
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"
FORSAKEN original
“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi
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Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
I sighted her and IMHO she sounded like a doofus
Okay. Here's a link to a transcript of her interview. Please note the 'doofus' parts, as opposed to those where she just doesn't agree with you.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/Story?id=5782924&page=2
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Quote:
Palin's ABC Interview: Stumped On Bush Doctrine, Seems To Contradict McCain On Pakistan
Seth Colter Walls and Sam Stein
September 11, 2008 07:13 PM
In her first major interview as the Republican vice presidential nominee, Alaska Governor Sarah Palin was stumped when asked about the so-called "Bush Doctrine," unable to answer whether she agreed with the six-year-old U.S. policy of military preemption.
Asked by ABC News' Charlie Gibson whether she supported the Bush Doctrine, Palin stared blankly for a moment before turning the question back on Gibson. "In what respect?"
The ABC anchor responded, "Well, what do you interpret it to be?" clearly testing her knowledge of the policy that has been in place since September 2002, before the Iraq war.
Palin couldn't say, offering an answer that didn't even mention preemption. "I believe that what President Bush has attempted to do is rid this world of Islamic extremism, terrorists who are hell-bent in destroying our nation. There have been blunders along the way, though. There have been mistakes made, and with new leadership, and that's the beauty of American elections, of course, and democracy, is with new leadership comes opportunity to do things better."
Gibson, who clearly felt he had not received a sufficient answer to the question he had asked, proceeded to define the Bush Doctrine for the governor. According to Bush's National Security Strategy from September 2002: "While the United States will constantly strive to enlist the support of the international community, we will not hesitate to act alone, if necessary, to exercise our right of self defense by acting preemptively against such terrorists, to prevent them from doing harm against our people and our country."
Thus, Gibson pressed Palin. "The Bush Doctrine is we have the right to self-defense, pre-emptive strike against any country we think is going to attack us," he noted. "Do you agree with it?"
Finally, Palin came close to offering an opinion on preemption.
"Charlie, if there is enough intelligent and legitimate evidence that tells us that a strike is imminent against American people, we have every right to defend our country," she said.
Later in the interview, Palin was asked why exactly being the governor of Alaska made her an expert on Russia -- a claim that she and the McCain campaign have used to justify her national security bonafides. Her response was to cite geographic proximity, claiming that from some points in her home state, one could actually see the increasingly confrontational nation.Quote:
PALIN: We have to keep our eyes on Russia. Under the leadership there.
GIBSON: What insight into Russian actions does the proximity of the state give you?
PALIN: They're our next door neighbors. And you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska.
There were times during her appearance on ABC that Palin seemingly did not have a full grasp of McCain's own foreign policy positions. For example, when pressed by Gibson whether, in efforts to combat terrorism, the United States should target al Qaeda figures in Pakistan without that country's permission, Palin tried to circumvent the question. The ABC host attempted to pin her down with a yes or no answer, to which Palin seemed to suggest that it would be an American imperative to make such an un-sanctioned attack.
"In order to stop Islamic extremists, those terrorists who would seek to destroy America, and our allies, we must do whatever it takes, and we must not blink, Charlie. In making the tough decisions of where we go, and even who we target. she said.
The response, though hardly definitive, seemed to put her at odds with McCain, who has harshly criticized Obama for saying he would target terrorist leaders that are replenishing their ranks in northwest Pakistan.
So apparently she thinks that "keeping our eyes on Russia" involves starting across the Bering Sea and literally KEEPING OUR EYES ON RUSSIA.
And she also agrees with Obama on strikes against Al Qaeda units inside Pakistan.
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Mr. Damon has a point on the "Does she really think dinosuars were here 4000 years ago...."
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"
FORSAKEN original
“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi
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Quote:
Mr. Damon has a point on the "Does she really think dinosuars were here 4000 years ago...."
Hell, BUSH thinks that - which gives me all sorts of giggles when I think of the irony of his family fortune, which is based on....
...wait for it....
FOSSIL FUELS!!!
I reckon he figures God just put all that oil in the ground a couple hundred years ago, figuring we might have some use for it in carrying out His mission here on Earth...
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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Geezer
Everything she said and yet said nothing points to the fact that she is not qualified. This woman has no business running for VP.
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"
FORSAKEN original
“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi
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Quote:
It's just that I'm maybe not quite as militant and tend to give the benefit of the doubt. Probably has something to do with our life experience to this point
There's that, but a big part of it's also that when someone shows me the tower of their faith in something, be it government, religion or personal philosophy, my first reaction is to get a big freakin hammer and see how good the foundations are, I like to know whether someone pushing something actually believes it themselves, yes ?
Whether they do or not is very enlightening and tends to clarify their motivations most effectively.
And yeah, there's also the personal experience thing, which shortens the decision making process a hell of a lot - how to explain...
Ok, people think in subtly different ways, but some of them are pretty simple IF/THEN and other flowchart style items, right ?
Well, think of the experience like a pre-buffer just before the actual flowchart, and IF the situation at hand matches within a certain tolerance a previous situation, THEN with an internal "sound" a lot like missle lock, it kicks into an almost wholly reflexive execution of the last known solution that worked, skipping the rest of the decision making process entire.
Ergo a larger part of my "thought" process is actually intuitive-comparitive rather than deductive-logical, which in a real world physical "situation" often results in getting the jump on someone with foul intent before they get set up to carry it out simply by recognising their initial maneuvers as a match for previous attempts.
http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/five_stages.html
http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/shadow_dancing.htm
Applied to a discussion or argument, it also means that IF the core philosophy and intent matches a known paradigm or template - especially if there are efforts to hide or obfuscate either one, AND that paradigm is hostile to personal freedom without commensurate benefit or having no benefit whatsoever beyond the control of many by the few - THEN an immediate and aggressive response is gonna happen sure as day follows dawn.
That's why dressing up National Socialism or Feudal-Fascism up in pretty fictions and trying to foist it in my general direction is like sticking your hand in a mousetrap - the mousetrap doesn't have to mull it over before reacting, is gonna react a certain way, and going to do so damned quickly, which is exactly the same result of said thought process.
Well, maybe not exactly - the final decision whether to act or not isn't reflexive, or to act in that specific fashion, but it's there, entire, in step by step execution from A-Z, usually before the person offering threat is halfway through motions thereof.
And make no mistake, someone offering to take my rights or freedoms "for my own good" is as much a threat as the figety creep trying to get into your blind spot who keeps reachin in his pocket every two seconds.... and if you ask me, just about as honest.
It's not so much about benefit of the doubt or militancy, as much as it is pure survival instinct, especially after realizing in elementary school that my personhood and core beliefs were actually more endangered by the situation than my physical health and safety, and ultimately - to me, more important to keep sacrosanct.
Being still here, I tend to trust those instincts when they start ringing warning bells, you know ?
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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Doofus part: didn't have the foggiest notion what the Bush Doctrine was. Had to b.s. her way through an answer and even when Charlie handed it to her, she misunderstood the concept. Apparently you can't learn foreign policy in two weeks of cramming! Who knew?
Geez, call me naïve , but I am still actually SHOCKED that none of our resident right-of-center community members has said "no" to this walking publicity stunt. Not one. For the past couple days they've even changed their opinions about P.C.! Now they're huge defenders of censorship on the grounds that some one might take it the wrong way! lol
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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Quote:
Now they're huge defenders of censorship on the grounds that some one might take it the wrong way! lol
Exactly - those who defended Don Imus now say that if ANYONE was offended, Obama has to apologize - for saying something he quite clearly, if you'll read the transcript, DIDN'T SAY!
Also, for "doofus-y" - reading the interview and watching excerpts, many of her sentences just don't make sense. They're not sentences; they're disjointed stream-of-consciousness ramblings. Makes me wonder if she was high during the interview. I kept waiting for her to stop and say, "Did I just say that? Whoa!"
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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She's got the munchies real bad, has someone got a dog biscuit?
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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It's just heresay until its corroborated by somebody of integrity, say Mccain spokesmen!
....
apparently Mccain's people have admited that Sarah Palin did inquire about banning books with the librarian, only their spin is that she did it "innocently," as a way to understand how the libraian might handle such a situation.
Strangely, there had never been a call to ban any books at that library for the last 10 years, and it seems like for those to be her reasons, she'd have to be a little kooky, especially since according to the GOP, Palin asked the same question of the librarian, on 3 separate occasions!
In 1997 Palin notified the librarian that she would be fired because she felt she didn't have her full support. The librarians full support? for what? They have Divergent views on See Spot books?
According to the librarian the story is only slightly different...the difference being that Palin approached her, asking her how she would react to Palin banning books.
Frankly, considering the avid interest Palin had fo the topic, considering that the librarian's response was possibly pugnacious, in that she said that she would object, and that it wouldn't just be her, it would be defenders of the constitution, etc.
it seems like a hard stretch to take the one detail of Palin not attempting to engineer a book banning out of the equation.
By the way, an outrcry by the public saved the librarian's job.
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I bet Lucille had an allien baby and named it Dave. She's a member of the tin foil hat club.
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Noone should EVER have to apologize for ANYTHING they say. This is America, people.
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Oh lord in heaven. She IS a doofus!
Quote:Confuse the the Bible with the Declaration of Independence much, do you? (Or find me that Bible quote that talks about life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness and I'll shut up.)
I believe that there is a plan for this world and that plan for this world is for good. I believe that there is great hope and great potential for every country to be able to live and be protected with inalienable rights that I believe are God-given, Charlie, and I believe that those are the rights to life and liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
---------------------------------
Any idea, no matter how much you may agree with it, can be radicalized and employed as an excuse for violence. There is no such thing as a righteous or untouchable philosophy, and when you start thinking that there is, you have become an extremist.- Finn Mac Cumhal
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Nevermind...not worth the argument.
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Quote:And yet said?! You're condeming her future statements?! You libs are bigger biggots than you think I am!
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
Geezer
Everything she said and yet said nothing points to the fact that she is not qualified. This woman has no business running for VP.
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"
FORSAKEN original
“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi
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Quote:And yet said?! You're condeming her future statements?! You libs are bigger biggots than you think I am!
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
Geezer
Everything she said and yet said nothing points to the fact that she is not qualified. This woman has no business running for VP.
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"
FORSAKEN original
“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi
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Quote:
Originally posted by whozit:
And yet said?! You're condeming her future statements?! You libs are bigger biggots than you think I am!
Not really. Though ironically you've shown your self to be fairly bigoted, and incapable of understanding written English.
Well done you I guess.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Bigotry? Thy name is liberal.
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wufie,
seriously? I didn't know you were a liberal,
my head is spinning
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Good gravy, Whozit,
You REALLY think that's what FMF meant? This here is conversational English--you need to know how to listen.
If FMF had written, "Everything she said without saying anything," would you have understood? 'Cause that's what she meant.
Or were you tryin' to be funny?
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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Quote:Someday I will call you a douchbag, but you can't get mad at me untill then.
Originally posted by citizen:Quote:
Originally posted by whozit:
And yet said?! You're condeming her future statements?! You libs are bigger biggots than you think I am!
Not really. Though ironically you've shown your self to be fairly bigoted, and incapable of understanding written English.
Well done you I guess.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:
Originally posted by whozit:
Someday I will call you a douchbag, but you can't get mad at me untill then.
For an impotent little twit you have an awfully inflated view of yourself...
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Hah...
I wouldnt be part of a belief system that teaches that one group of folks are too weak to pull themselves out of their ignorance without the help of everyone else....
Or that those same weaklings are weak because of the doings of another.
Or that we need government to watch over us and tell us what to do.
Or that anyone can "marry" anything, and noone has the right to say anything against it.
Or that even speaking against another country, and their actions, can be seen as condemning an entire race/religion.
Or that I need to pay for any of the above with money or "shame".
No...I would never in my life be a liberal bigot....so, sorry.
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Quote:As Superstar Pamala Anderson said SUCK IT!
Originally posted by citizen:Quote:
Originally posted by whozit:
Someday I will call you a douchbag, but you can't get mad at me untill then.
For an impotent little twit you have an awfully inflated view of yourself...
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:Oh please, I know you're saving yourself for Obama. Besides, I lent my microscope to a friend.
Originally posted by whozit:
As Superstar Pamala Anderson said SUCK IT!
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Quote:No, you prefer one that says equality is bad and slavery is good...
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Hah...
I wouldnt be part of a belief system that teaches that one group of folks are too weak to pull themselves out of their ignorance without the help of everyone else....
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Not at all, assclown. I would prefer one where everyone is given/returned the right to make their own way.
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"I wouldnt be part of a belief system that teaches that one group of folks are too weak to pull themselves out of their ignorance without the help of everyone else...."
It's called teaching. In fact, no one learns anything without the input of others. Perhaps you have heard of normal children locked in rooms by themselves for years on years who never learned to speak, to be toilet trained, to dress themselves. It's like that. You need the input of others to learn. And since you seem to reject that idea so completely, maybe that's where your personal mistake resides. And why you are so woefully ignorant.
"Or that those same weaklings are weak because of the doings of another."
Or the doings of many others, in concert, against which an individual has little chance. But maybe you favor those kinds of contests, the individual against the group. Now that says something about YOU, btw.
"Or that we need government to watch over us and tell us what to do."
That would be the repubicans in favor of that, especially when it comes to what happens in the bedroom.
"Or that anyone can "marry" anything, and noone has the right to say anything against it."
And there you show your own lack of logic (and grammar). It's OK for YOU to tell others whom (not what) they may marry, because they need government telling them what to do -- right ? But I thought you were against that. Confused much ?
"Or that even speaking against another country, and their actions, can be seen as condemning an entire race/religion."
When one says Muslims without distinguishing that 99.9+ % of Muslims are law abiding, then yes, it is condemning an entire religion.
"Or that I need to pay for any of the above with money or "shame"."
For being a confused religious homophobic social Darwinist and corporate tool ? Why-ever would you be ashamed about that ?
"No...I would never in my life be a liberal bigot....so, sorry."
You already are a bigot. You can only aspire to being a liberal.
***************************************************************
Silence is consent.
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Quote:Inflated veiw? What has B.O. done besides run for office? OH that's rite, he was a commity organizer, what did he organize and what great big thing happened? B.O. is an empty suit! HE'S DONE NOTHING!!!!!! In the future he will do nothing! You're voting for a guy who's done nothing his whole life but gives a great speech, HITLER DID THAT!!!! Also, he hs greatbig ears, and likes hot sweaty man sex!
Originally posted by citizen:Quote:Oh please, I know you're saving yourself for Obama. Besides, I lent my microscope to a friend.
Originally posted by whozit:
As Superstar Pamala Anderson said SUCK IT!
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Quote:Inflated veiw? What has B.O. done besides run for office? OH that's rite, he was a commity organizer, what did he organize and what great big thing happened? B.O. is an empty suit! HE'S DONE NOTHING!!!!!! In the future he will do nothing! You're voting for a guy who's done nothing his whole life but gives a great speech, HITLER DID THAT!!!! Also, he has great big ears, and likes hot sweaty man sex!
Originally posted by citizen:Quote:Oh please, I know you're saving yourself for Obama. Besides, I lent my microscope to a friend.
Originally posted by whozit:
As Superstar Pamala Anderson said SUCK IT!
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Rue-by,
Oh brother...
Im not against anyone or anything, so long as they are not in my way, in my business, or harming others or children.
I AM against folks trying to tell me what to do. Or how to think. Or how to "behave". For those folks who think they can do that..
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So you made a whole bunch of statements that you're now backing away from. OK. I get it.
***************************************************************
Silence is consent.
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How am I backing away from any of my comments?
Curious that you would think that.
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Compare your posts against each other. Take your time. Maybe you'll get it.
Meanwhile, I've got work to do.
***************************************************************
Silence is consent.
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Maybe Rue, you see what you want to see. Which wouldn't be surprising.
Take your time Rue, I know the burgers won't flip themselves...
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Quote:No, you prefer one where some are more equal than others, where some get all the breaks, and don't feel bad about the peasants being kept down, because really it's their fault. Or, you know Slavery.
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Not at all, assclown. I would prefer one where everyone is given/returned the right to make their own way.
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Quote:Hitler was a member of his country's armed forces, just like McCain.
Originally posted by whozit:
Inflated veiw? What has B.O. done besides run for office? OH that's rite, he was a commity organizer, what did he organize and what great big thing happened? B.O. is an empty suit! HE'S DONE NOTHING!!!!!! In the future he will do nothing! You're voting for a guy who's done nothing his whole life but gives a great speech, HITLER DID THAT!!!! Also, he has great big ears, and likes hot sweaty man sex!
You're voting for McCain so you can watch McCain put Jews to death while masturbating to pictures of Obama.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Citizen,
You are also one who sees what they want to see.
Its not worth getting into it with you.
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Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Hitler was a member of his country's armed forces, just like McCain.
Hitler was a community organizer...like Barrack Obama...and Hitler loved to give rousing speeches to large crowds...in Berlin.
McCain, on the other hand, was a member of his country's armed forces, just like the 3,431 folks who have won the Medal of Honor.
H
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Quote:all lies of course.
Originally posted by Hero:
Hitler was a community organizer...like Barrack Obama...and Hitler loved to give rousing speeches to large crowds...in Berlin.
McCain, on the other hand, was a member of his country's armed forces, just like the 3,431 folks who have won the Medal of Honor.
H
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Quote:Nah, you not only don't get what I'm saying, but you can't see anything other than Rush Limbaugh tells you to see, not to mention you're a freedom hating neo-Nazi who hates everyone unlike yourself.
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Citizen,
You are also one who sees what they want to see.
Its not worth getting into it with you.
It's not worth reading your posts, but it's funny poking you and watching you cry like a little girl.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Neo-Nazi? Is that the best you've got? Wow. Thats amusing on so many levels...considering who my family is and who my friends are. (They, and I, most definatly, would not be let into any Neo-Nazi organization)
Oh, and btw, I don't listen to Rush Limbaugh.
But, again, Citizen, its not worth getting into it with you. You see what you want to see, and hear what you want to hear. I have no chance, nor does anyone else, of changing your views.
So, you go right ahead and keep spouting your gibberish. I do find it entertaining at least.
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