Isn't she lovely..........hmmmmmm

POSTED BY: FutureMrsFIllion
UPDATED: Saturday, September 13, 2008 14:12
VIEWED: 7881
PAGE 4 of 14

PREV PAGE 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 NEXT PAGE

WULFENSTAR

Tuesday, September 9, 2008 3:40 PM

Sharpton is probably one of the single biggest influences in holding down black people.

KWICKO

Tuesday, September 9, 2008 3:59 PM

Quote:

Don't waste a minute of your life trying to converse or debate with him....he's like all the rest. The following was taken from a media article today ...

"We need to throw every last molecule of shit we've got at McCain and Palin," said a poster at the Democratic Underground. "Demonize them. Dehumanize them."

Ah, yes... Dehumanize & demonize, the two top rules out of Karl Rove's "Rules for a Better Amerika".

What, you don't like it when we play by your rules?

I've seen Obama variously attacked over the last several months here as a Muslim, an Arab, a "spook", a "monkey", a "lawn jockey", a socialist, a communist, a terrorist, and anything else you and your kind can think to throw at him.

I really shouldn't waste a minute of my life trying to converse with you; you're like "all the rest" of them on the right.

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

WASHNWEAR

Tuesday, September 9, 2008 4:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

I agree with Finn here. The claimant must provide the evidence, not the defending party.

--Anthony
Actually, they both should. If hero said, back that up, he's not making a claim, but he did make a claim, he claimed that the opening claim was a lie. If they're both making claims, they both should back them up.

I proclaim the claims are left unstated AND demand a rematch!

StipeNotChrisIsAll

It was like that when we got here!

KWICKO

Tuesday, September 9, 2008 5:01 PM

Quote:
Actually, they both should. If hero said, back that up, he's not making a claim, but he did make a claim, he claimed that the opening claim was a lie. If they're both making claims, they both should back them up.

Exactly. If he said, "I don't believe that" then that's all fine and good. But if you're going to ACCUSE the person of lying, or outright call them a liar, it becomes YOUR responsibility to prove your claim.

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

ANTHONYT

Tuesday, September 9, 2008 5:12 PM

Hello,

Are we making a distinction between saying, "I don't believe that what you are saying is the truth"

and

"You are a liar?"

I suppose the second statement is more offensive, and ought to be avoided.

However, I still think that if I say "Margaret Thatcher was a Nazi Jew,"

and someone else says, "You're a liar, prove it!"

The onus is actually on me, since I leveled the initial accusation.

Otherwise we end up with, "You're calling me a liar?! That's a lie!"

which can be responded with,

"You're calling ME a liar?! That's a lie!"

Which really just goes in circles with no one ever required to stop and provide evidence. Actually, that sounds a lot like our political debates. Two people pointing fingers at each other across an aisle shouting, "No, YOU are the liar!"

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

CITIZEN

Tuesday, September 9, 2008 5:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

Are we making a distinction between saying, "I don't believe that what you are saying is the truth"

Actually, I'm making a distinction between a request and a claim. "Have you got any evidence for that?" is a request, "You're a liar!" is a claim.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

KWICKO

Tuesday, September 9, 2008 5:32 PM

Quote:

Actually, I'm making a distinction between a request and a claim. "Have you got any evidence for that?" is a request, "You're a liar!" is a claim.

Exactly!

As Geezer is fond of saying, "Cites, please." It IMPLIES that he doesn't believe you, but it in no way calls you a liar. It asks for evidence, but doesn't insist that you have none.

Put it this way:

If Bush comes on the TV and says "Mission accomplished", and I post on here that he's lying and he's full of shit, do you think there's even a slight chance that I'm not going to be asked to "prove it"?

What you're saying is that, for every claim and news story posted by the righties, all I have to do is call bullshit on it, and it's on them to prove me wrong. And if I call bullshit on their proof, it's on them to provide more proof.

Several people on this thread called the original story's author a liar, and the stories complete BS. I asked them to provide evidence to back their claims, which has decidedly NOT been forthcoming.

If you post up a press release from the White House, and I immediately call it a lie and pure 100% bullshit, then is it the White House's responsibility to prove me wrong? Or is it MY responsibility to prove THEM wrong? 'Cuz if that's the case, then I'll just start posting "Bullshit. Pure lies." to everything Hero, 'Rap, and Finn care to put up here. Let them try to prove me wrong...

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

WULFENSTAR

Tuesday, September 9, 2008 5:52 PM

Guys...seriously...chill out.

ALL politicians are liars. We know this.

Why argue it?

The truth is only what you can hold in your hand.

SIGNYM

Tuesday, September 9, 2008 5:52 PM

Quote:
Which really just goes in circles with no one ever required to stop and provide evidence. Actually, that sounds a lot like our political debates. Two people pointing fingers at each other across an aisle shouting, "No, YOU are the liar!"

But when it comes right down to it, many are unable or unwilling to enter into the honest, detailed, data-driven discussions which are often the only way to sort out truth from fiction. For example, Rapo and I have had many discussions about the economy and WMD. But when his points are punctured one by one with data, he goes off in a huff, only to re-appear with the same bull that was disproved just a few threads before. Finn has a very difficult time explaining what he thinks because he operates with idealized, compartmentalized concepts, but gets frustrated when the edge of one idealized concept (anti-abortion, value of human life) conflicts with another (war, death penalty). When messy reality conflicts with idealized vision, he goes off in a huff. Geezer, OTOH, often acts like a solid disinformatinalist. He uses every trick in the book: Innuendo, strawman, distraction, insistence on perfection, etc. to prevent or frustrate productive discussion.

I'm all for discussion. I'm be happy to provide cites, and quotes, and data as much as anyone wants. But what comes to mind when I try to lay out data is Pearls before swine because, really, MOST people are not objective or rational. They're only interested in protecting their precious ideologies and staying in their comfort zone. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but that's one of the things I've learned here at fff.net.

---------------------------------
Any idea, no matter how much you may agree with it, can be radicalized and employed as an excuse for violence. There is no such thing as a righteous or untouchable philosophy, and when you start thinking that there is, you have become an extremist.- Finn Mac Cumhal

HKCAVALIER

Tuesday, September 9, 2008 6:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I've been saying it now for 11 days.....every time some Liberal or Democrat foams at the mouth and besmirches Sarah, she and McCain go up in popularity. From 7 points down to USA/Gallop's 10 points up. That's a lot more than a convention bump...that's the start of an avalanche. Obama has gone from just one Reverand Wright to now hundreds, and although his campaign desperately wants the Palin bashing stopped for obvious reasons (well, obvious at least to anyone with a brain or some political saavy), they can't stop it. And the liars and character assassins cannot control themselves either. It's just a perfect scenario for McCain & Palin to waltz into the White House.

Jongs,

McCain and Obama were in a statistical dead-heat before Denver, then Obmana got a bump that put him some 10 points ahead. Now, McCain's got the bump and they're in a statistical dead-heat again. People talk about momentum after a week. That's not momentum. That's still just the bump.

I understand that before the RNC McCain looked dead in the water. I understand that no one expected him to regain what he'd lost. But just because he's exceeded expectations (or rather his party machine dropping the Palin bomb has), doesn't mean he's got momentum in anyone's mind but the the people who were rooting for him in the first place.

We'll all see if Palin has what it takes to carry the ticket (when was the last time that a VP carried the ticket--or had to? Good luck with that!). Just as instantaneously as her star has risen, it can fall. That the press is acting like monkeys at a poo party, is nothing new and, like monkeys, they'll get tired of it pretty quick. You're crowing about "11 days" like it's an eternity, but it's not. It's a week and a half.

And again, calling a Governor "the most beloved" while she's in the first year and a half of her first term in office, after defeating a corrupt incumbent in a state with the populations of a large city is pretty pathetic and of course aggressively misleading. But "aggressively misleading" is the name of the GOP game, isn't it? Enjoy the confusion Palin's thrown into the race while it lasts.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

PREV PAGE 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 NEXT PAGE