Isn't she lovely..........hmmmmmm
POSTED BY: FutureMrsFIllion
UPDATED: Saturday, September 13, 2008 14:12
VIEWED: 7881
PAGE 5 of 14
Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Guys...seriously...chill out.
ALL politicians are liars. We know this.
Why argue it?
The truth is only what you can hold in your hand.
I don't disagree with you...
the problems arise when you just accept the lies you are told without looking for the truth...
that is how we got into Iraq: Bush lied to us and we all accepted it (we meaning all the newspapers, TV news, Congress, and EVERYONE just believed the lies we were told) Interestingly Barack Obama did see beyond those lies and said we shouldn't go into Iraq.
The housing crisis came from the Republicans saying that deregulating banking was a good thing... and it lead directly to predatory loans which speculators thought would make them rich even if the buyers end up losing their homes.... They couldn't foresee that the bottom would drop out of the housing market and the bad mortgages would damage our economy... BECAUSE PEOPLE IN THE US WERE JUST WILLING TO TRUST THAT THE ADMINISTRATION KNEW WHAT IT WAS DOING!
We cannot trust politicians, we seriously need to try to find out the truth, by ourselves if we cannot trust the corporate owned newspapers and cable TV news.
New Firefly fans should check this out: http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=2&t=15816
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Yeah, this defeatist "all politicians lie" thing serves only to confuse the really big lies (WMD's) with the really lame lies (I did not have sex with that woman). "All politician's lie" is about as useful as "all parents lie" or simply "everybody lies." Sorry, but not everybody lies and even of those that do, some lie about silly or personal things and others lie people to their deaths.
The Dem's at their convention took a lot of pains to be more or less factual in their speeches, and the press complained "Where's the red meat?" and "workman-like, but not inspiring." Then the speechifiers at the RNC just went completely off the rails, stringing together one simplistic lie upon another, like "Obama wants to raise your taxes! I want to lower them!" or "I said, thanks, but no thanks!" (and kept the money). And the press crows "There's the red meat we wanted!" Forget that fact checking the RNC speeches is like spell checking an 8th grade dyslexic's term paper. Everybody lies--liars rejoice!
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I've been saying it now for 11 days.....every time some Liberal or Democrat foams at the mouth and besmirches Sarah, she and McCain go up in popularity. From 7 points down to USA/Gallop's 10 points up. That's a lot more than a convention bump...that's the start of an avalanche. Obama has gone from just one Reverand Wright to now hundreds, and although his campaign desperately wants the Palin bashing stopped for obvious reasons (well, obvious at least to anyone with a brain or some political saavy), they can't stop it. And the liars and character assassins cannot control themselves either. It's just a perfect scenario for McCain & Palin to waltz into the White House.
Jongs,
McCain and Obama were in a statistical dead-heat before Denver, then Obmana got a bump that put him some 10 points ahead. Now, McCain's got the bump and they're in a statistical dead-heat again. People talk about momentum after a week. That's not momentum. That's still just the bump.
I understand that before the RNC McCain looked dead in the water. I understand that no one expected him to regain what he'd lost. But just because he's exceeded expectations (or rather his party machine dropping the Palin bomb has), doesn't mean he's got momentum in anyone's mind but the the people who were rooting for him in the first place.
We'll all see if Palin has what it takes to carry the ticket (when was the last time that a VP carried the ticket--or had to? Good luck with that!). Just as instantaneously as her star has risen, it can fall. That the press is acting like monkeys at a poo party, is nothing new and, like monkeys, they'll get tired of it pretty quick. You're crowing about "11 days" like it's an eternity, but it's not. It's a week and a half.
And again, calling a Governor "the most beloved" while she's in the first year and a half of her first term in office, after defeating a corrupt incumbent in a state with the populations of a large city is pretty pathetic and of course aggressively misleading. But "aggressively misleading" is the name of the GOP game, isn't it? Enjoy the confusion Palin's thrown into the race while it lasts.
HKCavalier
HK...you make some valid points, and I like your style and sense of fairness. I do have major dis-agreements with most of your post however. I just don't think that RWED is the place to try to win a debate. It's totally pointless. My facts are your lies, and your facts are my lies. I don't engage directly with the other side usually because no one is going to change anyone's views at all. I just want to post a few times a day my feelings on the races or other posts. People can read them and respond or not. Thanks, Jong
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Quote:Jongsstraw, there is only one reality. Facts don't turn into lies depending on how you look at them, only opinion does.
My facts are your lies, and your facts are my lies
Just as an aside, I don't think "truth" and "lie" are exact opposities. "Truth" - IMHO- is what happens when you try to reach a better understanding of the real world. "Lie" is what happens when you deliberately mistate the truth. But in-between there is misunderstanding. I don't call that a "lie", I call that a "mistake".
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Any idea, no matter how much you may agree with it, can be radicalized and employed as an excuse for violence. There is no such thing as a righteous or untouchable philosophy, and when you start thinking that there is, you have become an extremist.- Finn Mac Cumhal
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:Quote:Jongsstraw, there is only one reality. Facts don't turn into lies depending on how you look at them, only opinion does.
My facts are your lies, and your facts are my lies
Just as an aside, I don't think "truth" and "lie" are exact opposities. "Truth" - IMHO- is what happens when you try to reach a better understanding of the real world. "Lie" is what happens when you deliberately mistate the truth. But in-between there is misunderstanding. I don't call that a "lie", I call that a "mistake".
Agreed...let's call them mistakes or factual errors, because I don't believe that most here lie. And sometimes there is no one infallable truth to a situation, only individual perceptions of the same situation.
Also, there can be a situation where both sides see the same truth. They can differ however on whether that accpeted truth is a good thing or bad thing. And that's the human part of the equation.
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Good thing I was sittin' down 'cause otherwise I would have fallen down! Jongsstraw, you and I AGREE!!!
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Any idea, no matter how much you may agree with it, can be radicalized and employed as an excuse for violence. There is no such thing as a righteous or untouchable philosophy, and when you start thinking that there is, you have become an extremist.- Finn Mac Cumhal
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Hello,
For my own part, I will try to stick with language like 'skeptical' when discussing someone's claims, rather than calling the claims a lie until proven true.
As was pointed out, people can be wrong for a variety of reasons, and the rightness or wrongness of something can 'change' as more data comes in. Saying something is a lie is akin to calling the speaker a liar, which is something they may not really be. And I prefer to avoid insults in any event.
So I will try to remember this lesson learned and proceed henceforth to greater cooperation and understanding.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Quote:
As Geezer is fond of saying, "Cites, please." It IMPLIES that he doesn't believe you, but it in no way calls you a liar. It asks for evidence, but doesn't insist that you have none.
Exactly, I might passionately disagree with him on some stuff, but at least he's willing to weigh the evidence - that of course means one should offer some.
As for the rest, we might share the same reality, but my way of lookin at it's probably sideways to yours.
That's ok too, the more viewpoints you look at something from, the clearer the picture.
It's when dipwads throw paint on the windows that I get pissed off.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Good thing I was sittin' down 'cause otherwise I would have fallen down! Jongsstraw, you and I AGREE!!!
Oh lord! What do we do now?
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Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
Alaskans Speak (In A Frightened Whisper): Palin Is “Racist, Sexist, Vindictive, And Mean”
September 5, 2008
by Charley James –
“So Sambo beat the bitch!”
This is how Republican Vice Presidential nominee Sarah Palin described Barack Obama’s win over Hillary Clinton to political colleagues in a restaurant a few days after Obama locked up the Democratic Party presidential nomination.
According to Lucille, the waitress serving her table at the time and who asked that her last name not be used, Gov. Palin was eating lunch with five or six people when the subject of the Democrat’s primary battle came up. The governor, seemingly not caring that people at nearby tables would likely hear her, uttered the slur and then laughed loudly as her meal mates joined in appreciatively.
“It was kind of disgusting,” Lucille, who is part Aboriginal, said in a phone interview after admitting that she is frightened of being discovered telling folks in the “lower 48” about life near the North Pole.
Then, almost with a sigh, she added, “But that’s just Alaska.”
Racial and ethnic slurs may be “just Alaska” and, clearly, they are common, everyday chatter for Palin.
Besides insulting Obama with a Step-N’-Fetch-It, “darkie musical” swipe, people who know her say she refers regularly to Alaska’s Aboriginal people as “Arctic Arabs” – how efficient, lumping two apparently undesirable groups into one ugly description – as well as the more colourful “mukluks” along with the totally unimaginative “f**king Eskimo’s,” according to a number of Alaskans and Wasillians interviewed for this article.
But being openly racist is only the tip of the Palin iceberg. According to Alaskans interviewed for this article, she is also vindictive and mean. We’re talking Rove mean and Nixon vindictive.
No wonder the vast sea of white, cheering faces at the Republican Convention went wild for Sarah: They adore the type, it’s in their genetic code. So much for McCain’s pledge of a “high road” campaign; Palin is incapable of being part of one.
Tough Getting People Who Know Her to Talk
It’s not easy getting people in the 49th state to speak critically about Palin – especially people in Wasilla, where she was mayor. For one thing, with every journalist in the world calling, phone lines into Alaska have been mostly jammed since Friday; as often as not, a recording told me that “all circuits are busy” or numbers just wouldn’t ring. I should think a state that’s been made richer than God by oil could afford telephone lines and cell towers for everyone.
On a more practical level, many people in Alaska, and particularly Wasilla, are reluctant to speak or be quoted by name because they’re afraid of her as well as the state Republican Party machine. Apparently, the power elite are as mean as the winters.
“The GOP is kind of like organized crime up here,” an insurance agent in Anchorage who knows the Palin family, explained. “It’s corrupt and arrogant. They’re all rich because they do private sweetheart deals with the oil companies, and they can destroy anyone. And they will, if they have to.”
“Once Palin became mayor,” he continued, “She became part of that inner circle.”
Like most other people interviewed, he didn’t want his name used out of fear of retribution. Maybe it’s the long winter nights where you don’t see the sun for months that makes people feel as if they’re under constant danger from “the authorities.” As I interviewed residents it began sounding as if living in Alaska controlled by the state Republican Party is like living in the old Soviet Union: See nothing that’s happening, say nothing offensive, and the political commissars leave you alone. But speak out and you get disappeared into a gulag north of the Arctic Circle for who-knows-how-long.
Alright, that’s an exaggeration brought on by my getting too little sleep and building too much anger as I worked this article. But there’s ample evidence of Palin’s vindictive willingness to destroy people she sees as opponents. JusNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME