Why George Bush is a great man & a very good President
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Friday, June 13, 2008 02:56
VIEWED: 16263
PAGE 1 of 2
List it my peeps; I need some good fantasy...
isall
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It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:Mmmm, 'cause he bangs his head against a wall...?
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Not getting it Chrisisall
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Cuz he responded in a timely manner to the 9/11 attacks... oh, wait, he got hung up! But, hey, who can blame him? I mean, "My Pet Goat" is such an attention grabber!
-Danny
Late night, Brakes lock,
Hear the tires squeal,
Red light, can't stop, so I spin the wheel,
My world goes Black before I
Feel an Angel lift me up,
And I open Bloodshot eyes,
Into fluorescent White,
Flip the Siren, Hit the Lights,
Close the doors and I am Gone
The Band of the week is... Thrice
Gott weiß ich will kein Engel sein.
http://www.myspace.com/otherrandomdude
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It's just a matter of time, eventually most will say with the clarity of hindsight that Bush was a good President.
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No.... no they won't.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Bush did a good job for me. If he killed more terrorists I would rated him higher. Start with the finsbury park crowd since the english don't have the guts anymore. 4 years from now we need another BUSH.
"Battle of Serenity, Mal. Besides Zoe here, how many-" "I'm talkin at you! How many men in your platoon came out of their alive".
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Quote:
Originally posted by Alliethorn7:
Cuz he responded in a timely manner to the 9/11 attacks... oh, wait, he got hung up! But, hey, who can blame him? I mean, "My Pet Goat" is such an attention grabber!
-Danny
Yeah, because there's a whole hell of a lot he could have done, down in Florida, to stop those planes ( up in Boston, NYC , etc... .) from being hijacked and crashing into the WTC, Pentagon, or a field in Pennsylvania.
You're right, he should have IMMEDIATELY raised his voice, shook his fist in anger and stormed out of the classroom. THAT would have shown those mean terrorist who's boss!
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Well... I think he was not very good presidemt, but he was not bad president. He just happened to be president in bad times... He didn't have a lot of experience, compared to other candidates. But he didn't bring a major disaster. Irak,economy were not his fault. IT would have happen with any other president.
On the funny side, he can be so funny, although.
"Thank you, your Holiness. Awesome speech." --George W. Bush, to Pope Benedict, Washington, D.C., April 15, 2008
"Soldiers, sailors, Marines, airmen, and Coastmen -- Coast Guardmen, thanks for coming, thanks for wearing the uniform."
"Soldiers, sailors, Marines, airmen, and Coastmen -- Coast Guardmen, thanks for coming, thanks for wearing the uniform." --George W. Bush, at the Pentagon, March 19, 2008
"Let me start off by saying that in 2000 I said, 'Vote for me. I'm an agent of change.' In 2004, I said, 'I'm not interested in change --I want to continue as president.' Every candidate has got to say 'change.' That's what the American people expect." --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., March 5, 2008
"Too many good docs are getting out of the business. Too many OB-GYNs aren't able to practice their love with women all across this country." —Poplar Bluff, Mo., Sept. 6, 2004
"They misunderestimated me." —Bentonville, Ark., Nov. 6, 2000
"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." —Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004
"There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." —Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002
"The vast majority of our imports come from outside the country."- George W. Bush
"If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure."- George W. Bush
"One word sums up probably the responsibility of any Governor, and that one word is 'to be prepared'."- George W. Bush
"I have made good judgments in the past. I have made good judgments in the future."
- George W. Bush
"We're going to have the best educated American people in the world."- George W. Bush
"I stand by all the misstatements that I've made."- George W. Bush
"We have a firm commitment to NATO, we are a part of NATO. We have a firm commitment to Europe We are a part of Europe."- George W. Bush
"A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls." - George W. Bush
"We are ready for any unforeseen event that may or may not occur."- George W. Bush
"For NASA, space is still a high priority."- George W. Bush
"Quite frankly, teachers are the only profession that teach our children."- George W. Bush
"It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it."- George W. Bush
And my personal favorite:
"It's time for the human race to enter the solar system."
- George W. Bush
(Too late George, we are already there.)
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Can't. Breathe.
Kons, oh my God, thank you. THANK YOU.
I haven't laughed that hard in a long time.
There you go Chris. Bush made millions of Americans laugh during his presidency. Why would he do that if he weren't a good man and a good president?
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Anyone Liberals hate so much can't be all that bad.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:Since when did you turn into a full-fledged knuckle-dragger? I guess the issues are too complicated for you, so you resort of "us versus them"- again. Seems to be a common failing among authoritarian-types.
Anyone Liberals hate so much can't be all that bad.
A day will come when you, Rap, and Hero will pull your heads out of your butts, see the sun and breathe the fresh air of sweet reason. Not today tho.
---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.
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I don't think I would classify Bush as a Good President but I would also not say that he was the worst by a long shot. I would say he is mediocre.
But I digress you wanted something good about him.
Bush came out in favor of private retirement accounts. According to the latest Zogby poll, by Cato, 68% of the public support the idea.
(public support in and of itself is not a measure of goodness though. Just saying it is popular.)
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What do I admire about Dubya?
Well... to be fair, I admire his ability to tell his left from his right -often in as little as two tries!
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:Quote:
Originally posted by Alliethorn7:
Cuz he responded in a timely manner to the 9/11 attacks... oh, wait, he got hung up! But, hey, who can blame him? I mean, "My Pet Goat" is such an attention grabber!
-Danny
Yeah, because there's a whole hell of a lot he could have done, down in Florida, to stop those planes ( up in Boston, NYC , etc... .) from being hijacked and crashing into the WTC, Pentagon, or a field in Pennsylvania.
You're right, he should have IMMEDIATELY raised his voice, shook his fist in anger and stormed out of the classroom. THAT would have shown those mean terrorist who's boss!
And the reason he couldn't have immediately gone out of the classroom to ATTEMPT to do something constructive was...?
-Danny
Late night, Brakes lock,
Hear the tires squeal,
Red light, can't stop, so I spin the wheel,
My world goes Black before I
Feel an Angel lift me up,
And I open Bloodshot eyes,
Into fluorescent White,
Flip the Siren, Hit the Lights,
Close the doors and I am Gone
The Band of the week is... Thrice
Gott weiß ich will kein Engel sein.
http://www.myspace.com/otherrandomdude
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Quote:
Originally posted by Alliethorn7:
And the reason he couldn't have immediately gone out of the classroom to ATTEMPT to do something constructive was...?
Because he is not a trained search and rescue specialist?
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Quote:because it's all mashed potatoes from the forehead on back...
Originally posted by Alliethorn7:
And the reason he couldn't have immediately gone out of the classroom to ATTEMPT to do something constructive was...?
The good thing about W's presidency? He got a whole lotta people interested in politics and the government. Folks like me needed to see what can happen when the system is taken over by greedy, power-hungry authoritarian types.
-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left
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Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:Quote:
Originally posted by Alliethorn7:
And the reason he couldn't have immediately gone out of the classroom to ATTEMPT to do something constructive was...?
Because he is not a trained search and rescue specialist?
And that ranks as one of the dumbest responses/rationalizations ever.
Sure, he wasn't a search and rescue specialist - he's just the (so-called) leader of this nation, and Commander in Cheif of our forces. Why should he be expected to actually get off his ass when we're attacked?
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:Pssst, Finn, a lot of real Conservatives don't like him all that much either...
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Anyone Liberals hate so much can't be all that bad.
isall
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Anyone slimy neo-cons defend so fervently can't be any good.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:I like that he had an audience with the Dali Lama & pissed off the Chinese government...
Originally posted by Foster:
But I digress you wanted something good about him.
Bush came out in favor of private retirement accounts. According to the latest Zogby poll, by Cato, 68% of the public support the idea.
Can't think of too much more off the top of my head though.
Brain hurts Chrisisall
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Quote:Bush is looking better and better.
Originally posted by SignyM:Quote:Since when did you turn into a full-fledged knuckle-dragger? I guess the issues are too complicated for you, so you resort of "us versus them"- again. Seems to be a common failing among authoritarian-types.
Anyone Liberals hate so much can't be all that bad.
A day will come when you, Rap, and Hero will pull your heads out of your butts, see the sun and breathe the fresh air of sweet reason. Not today tho.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:Yet, most Conservatives would agree with me that one of Bush's best qualities is how much Liberals hate him. Anyone Liberals hate that much, can't be all bad.
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:Pssst, Finn, a lot of real Conservatives don't like him all that much either...
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Anyone Liberals hate so much can't be all that bad.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:I believe your average liberal isn't all that fond of Hitler.
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Yet, most Conservatives would agree with me that one of Bush's best qualities is how much Liberals hate him. Anyone Liberals hate that much, can't be all bad.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:Silly silly British man.
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Yet, most Conservatives would agree with me that one of Bush's best qualities is how much Liberals hate him.
Chrisisall
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Quote:Right, because amidst a national crisis what you want is the POTUS roaming around the disaster site or running off half cocked.
Originally posted by Storymark:Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:Quote:
Originally posted by Alliethorn7:
And the reason he couldn't have immediately gone out of the classroom to ATTEMPT to do something constructive was...?
Because he is not a trained search and rescue specialist?
And that ranks as one of the dumbest responses/rationalizations ever.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:Don't bring the silly British into this.
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:Silly silly British man.
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Yet, most Conservatives would agree with me that one of Bush's best qualities is how much Liberals hate him.
Quote:Too late.
Originally posted by citizen:
I believe your average liberal isn't all that fond of Hitler.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Well they're not, even if others are 
...
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:Clinton never did that.
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Right, because amidst a national crisis what you want is the POTUS ....running off half cocked.
Ask Monicaisall
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Quote:That’s true. Clinton never dealt a national crisis.
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:Clinton never did that.
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Right, because amidst a national crisis what you want is the POTUS ....running off half cocked.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:Yeah, he never dealt us a crisis...like Bush did.
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
That’s true. Clinton never dealt a national crisis.
Bad Bushisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:Quote:
Originally posted by Alliethorn7:
And the reason he couldn't have immediately gone out of the classroom to ATTEMPT to do something constructive was...?
Because he is not a trained search and rescue specialist?
And that ranks as one of the dumbest responses/rationalizations ever.
Sure, he wasn't a search and rescue specialist - he's just the (so-called) leader of this nation, and Commander in Cheif of our forces. Why should he be expected to actually get off his ass when we're attacked?
And you reckon Bush is useless so perhaps staying out of the way and letting the people in charge get the job done was a good thing.
Have you ever had a boss that liked to micro-manage? Even with the best intentions, these people can do more harm than good by interfering where they are not needed.
Say Bush, after hearing about the attacks, politely excused himself from the classroom. What do you propose he could have done differently to alter the aftermath of the attacks? Would emergency services have arrived sooner? Would more people have been evacuated out of the twin towers to safety? Would we have known the attackers identities sooner? Would that have made any difference?
Please don't say that the attacks would have never happened in the first place if Bush was doing his job. That is not the point. You dislike Bush because of his actions on 9/11 and that is what is presently being discussed.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Right, because amidst a national crisis what you want is the POTUS roaming around the disaster site or running off half cocked.
Again with the rationalizations.... How sad.
Because, of course, all the best leaders stand there dumbfounded in a moment of crisis.
Do you really think there is no middle ground between doing nothing, and running off "half cocked"?
You may be a rightie wingnut douchbag, but you're not usually that fucking stupid, Finn.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:You usually are.
Originally posted by Storymark:
You may be a rightie wingnut douchbag, but you're not usually that fucking stupid, Finn.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Say Bush, after hearing about the attacks, politely excused himself from the classroom. What do you propose he could have done differently to alter the aftermath of the attacks? Would emergency services have arrived sooner? Would more people have been evacuated out of the twin towers to safety? Would we have known the attackers identities sooner? Would that have made any difference?
Well, I don't believe he got the full breifing on the whole situation right there in the classroom, so I'd say step one would be get off his ass and make sure he was aware of all available information.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:Quote:You usually are.
Originally posted by Storymark:
You may be a rightie wingnut douchbag, but you're not usually that fucking stupid, Finn.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
From a lock-stepping, "do as you're told" fucktard like yourself, I take that as a compliment.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Well, I don't believe he got the full breifing on the whole situation right there in the classroom, so I'd say step one would be get off his ass and make sure he was aware of all available information.
So you do not have a problem with what Bush did, you have a problem with when Bush did it. If Bush had immediately run from the classroom and hid in his limo for half an hour, then you would be okay with his actions? There would be no tape of Bush in the classroom then. And when it comes down to it, we are speaking of optics here, nothing more.
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Quote:Eh, I decided to post in-kind. Pretty much like Rap and Jongsstraw and sometimes even you. Funny how it looks horrible when it's coming from someone who's not "your own kind" huh?
Bush is looking better and better.
Anyway, I decided not to continue in this vein because you know what they say about wrestling pigs in the mud.... So I'm gonna go back to my sweet reasonable self and let YOU spew the bile and crap!
---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.
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Quote:’kay.
Originally posted by SignyM:
So I'm gonna go back to my sweet reasonable self and let YOU spew the bile and crap!
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:Quote:You usually are.
Originally posted by Storymark:
You may be a rightie wingnut douchbag, but you're not usually that fucking stupid, Finn.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
From a lock-stepping, "do as you're told" fucktard like yourself, I take that as a compliment.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
Children, play nice.
-Danny
Late night, Brakes lock,
Hear the tires squeal,
Red light, can't stop, so I spin the wheel,
My world goes Black before I
Feel an Angel lift me up,
And I open Bloodshot eyes,
Into fluorescent White,
Flip the Siren, Hit the Lights,
Close the doors and I am Gone
The Band of the week is... Thrice
Gott weiß ich will kein Engel sein.
http://www.myspace.com/otherrandomdude
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Bush is a dumbass and a terrible president.
Wuo duh ma...
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Quote:Um...isn't that the choices they offer when people question the Iraq War? You either commit the stupidest foreign policy blunder in American history or you do nothing?
Originally posted by Storymark:
Do you really think there is no middle ground between doing nothing, and running off "half cocked?"
So, no, I don't think they see a middle ground.
Sad thing is, it took a couple years of planning before Bush could go off half-cocked. Guess he wanted to do it right!
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Blueredgreen:
Bush is a dumbass and a terrible president.
Wuo duh ma...
Say what you will, he's still smarter than Gore or Kerry.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Unfortunately that ain't sayin much.
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Bush will go down in history as a bad President. He hit his high note right after Sept 11, 2001. That day, the whole country ( except for leftist America-haters) was left wondering what was happening and was more to come. Bush went on TV and spoke to the nation with a calm assurance. He correctly identified the attackers as Islamic terrorists, and said he would fight a new kind of war against them.
From that moment on, he made one blunder after the next...beginning with waiting 30 days to go into Afghanistan....by sending only a skeleton military force into Afghanistan, and by dealing with warlords and opium dealers to fight the Taliban and Al Qaida. Bad as that mess was, he then announced "shock & awe" for Bagdhad, a ridiculous & embarrassing over-statement of plans for invasion. As much as I hated the terrorists for 911,going into Iraq was a huge mistake. He took his eye off the ball, and in Iraq it has been one blunder after another...going back to the un-fetterred looting by the civilians, the Paul Bremer "era" of incompetence & daily mass death, and the Rumsfeld strategy of allowing our too few troops to get fucking blown up every day with roadside bombs. They failed to get Al Sadr in Fallujah, and they failed miserably to secure the country. Add to Bush's woes his utter lack of strength when it came to leadership in dealing with OPEC, and his abysmal record of international cooperation....then Katrina, then waterboarding, then failing to go to FISA Court for surveylliance, failing to go after national security leakers at the CIA and NSA.
An important element in evaluating a President's legacy is how they left the nation when their term was up. Bush is handing off America to the next Presidnet in very dire straits...maybe the worst handoff I've ever seen in 50+ years.............
$ 4.00 gas...maybe soon $ 8 gas
Endless death in Iraq??...for what again?
Out of control Mexican border
American sanctuary cities defying Immigration law with impunity
US Dollar terribly weak
Economy near recession
Out of control food and energy prices
Home mortgage debacle
To his credit, and that's very limited, he did cut my income taxes slightly, and I have received a total of $ 1500 in tax rebate/incentive checks in 8 years.
But he is leaving a big fat mess for the country. He should hang his head in deep shame when he welcomes the next President to Washington.
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Quote:Bush is a terrorist and the US is a fascist state. This is the so-called “Middle Ground.”
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Um...isn't that the choices they offer when people question the Iraq War? You either commit the stupidest foreign policy blunder in American history or you do nothing?
So, no, I don't think they see a middle ground.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:Wow! Could it be.....?
Bush is a terrorist and the US is a fascist state
Oh, it was ironic.
Yes, imho Bush IS a terrorist. That's what we call someone who kills and tortures civilians achieve a politcal end, isn't it? Does it make any difference if it's done with missiles or with explosive vests? If you listen to some of our vets, they describe a situation that's mayhem and madness... anyone and anything a target.
It seems to me we need to recover our honor and backbone, and stop our craven quest for oil and what we perceive as the "safety" of killing everyone who hates us even though they're 10,000 miles away. We HAVE to walk our talk. We've got to stop "promising peace but delivering death". It goes deeper than w/drawing our troops from the "every conceivable place in the world" we have them stationed, or raising the minimum wage, or even instituting universal health care.
We have to stop running in fear. We run run run. We run from the capitalist, from the terrorist, from crime, from our neighbor, from the future and we bury ourselves in "American Idol" and mounds of "stuff" that we don't even need because we're told endlessly that we can "live on the edge", or "find freedom" if we only buy this that and the other.
I have hope that we will recover. Not all Presidents are bad, nor all politicians. Some actually DO think about what's good for the USA. Not Bush, tho.
---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.
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The Presidency In The Year 2007
With multiple resignations and the loss of the Republican majority in Congress, many of President Bush's accomplishments failed to make the news. Here are some of the high points of this year in the Bush administration:
Feb. 10—Left a crowd outside a batting cage in Baltimore feeling proud to be Americans
March 5—Received his 30-day chip from Alcoholics Anonymous
April 8—Hid Easter eggs so effectively that no child could find them
April 15—Donated $3 to the Presidential Election Campaign Fund by ticking box on tax return
June 16—Finally finished fixing up that old '67 Chevy that had been on blocks on the White House front lawn
Aug. 14—Said "Ahmadinejad" correctly without looking at palm
Sept. 14—Bagged lunch, which helped knock $65 off of $9 trillion debt
Oct. 1—Worked so hard all day, didn't realize it was 5:15 p.m.
thanks to the onion for that reminder
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Quote:See Finn, you and I and most other Americans are green, have webbed fingers & toes, and are sitting in a country-sized circular metal skillet, and they are turning up the heat oh-so-slowly....
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Bush is a terrorist and the US is a fascist state. This is the so-called “Middle Ground.”
isall
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Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Well, I don't believe he got the full breifing on the whole situation right there in the classroom, so I'd say step one would be get off his ass and make sure he was aware of all available information.
So you do not have a problem with what Bush did, you have a problem with when Bush did it. If Bush had immediately run from the classroom and hid in his limo for half an hour, then you would be okay with his actions? There would be no tape of Bush in the classroom then. And when it comes down to it, we are speaking of optics here, nothing more.
Christ, do you even read before responding? Or are you just incapable of anything but a straw-man response?
No, I wouldn't want him to go "hide in his limo", I would have liked for him to get involved. If that entailed getting a breifing in his limo - so bit it. But sitting on his ass is not the action of a leader.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:Quote:Bush is a terrorist and the US is a fascist state. This is the so-called “Middle Ground.”
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Um...isn't that the choices they offer when people question the Iraq War? You either commit the stupidest foreign policy blunder in American history or you do nothing?
So, no, I don't think they see a middle ground.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
Wow, you managed to evade the qestion and prove my point in one feel swoop. Nice. Thanks.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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As an observation.
In the UK the nicest depiction we have of the "Prime Minister" on TV is a somewhat image obscessed, out of his depth functionary. After that we go downwards through various shades of idiot to the genuinely corrupt and possibly loopy.
In the US the President in TV and film is played by folks like Harrison Ford and Martin Sheen, leads fighter jets against alien invaders, is perfectly capable of thoughtfully dealing with giant asteroids or terrorists on his plane and has Jack Bauer on his speed dial.
We are seldom disappointed in what we get because our popular culture doesnt make the PM out to be that great. In the US anything less than a President Bartlett is considered a failure.
Ok, so this one is especially poor, but has any President since Kennedy REALLY lived up to the American public's perception of the office? I mean even Reagan had to fall back on being the "nice guy" rather than the uber stateman US popular culture expects.
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Quote:Finn, see, has a problem with questions. It's akin to a learning disability so don't be too hard on him. The question mark just creates such an uncomfortable feeling that he avoids them whenever possible, which is why you must talk to him in simple declarative sentences.
Wow, you managed to evade the qestion and prove my point
(EH! I slapped myself upside the head for that one, but I couldn't resist!)
---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.
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Quote:Interesting point. In fact, even Kennedy didn't live up to his reputation, and all of our most effective Presidents were hated violently at some point or another in their terms of office. So we (collectively) perhaps need to scale back our expectations and not expect an Olympian-style hero (no, not THAT Hero) to pull our bacon out of the many fires that we would rather collectively ignore.
In the UK the nicest depiction we have of the "Prime Minister" on TV is a somewhat image obscessed, out of his depth functionary. After that we go downwards through various shades of idiot to the genuinely corrupt and possibly loopy.
In the US the President in TV and film is played by folks like Harrison Ford and Martin Sheen, leads fighter jets against alien invaders, is perfectly capable of thoughtfully dealing with giant asteroids or terrorists on his plane and has Jack Bauer on his speed dial.
We are seldom disappointed in what we get because our popular culture doesnt make the PM out to be that great. In the US anything less than a President Bartlett is considered a failure.
Ok, so this one is especially poor, but has any President since Kennedy REALLY lived up to the American public's perception of the office? I mean even Reagan had to fall back on being the "nice guy" rather than the uber stateman US popular culture expects.
Me, I'd settle for a guy who doesn't sell us down the river at the first opportunity* and start dubious military missions throughout the world. (*That was my beef with Clinton and NAFTA.) If a President doesn't do great good, I hope s/he would at least avoid great evil.
---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.
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Quote:Great post, Fletch! But I guess the question is, why can't Ford or Sheen run for the office?
Originally posted by Fletch2:
In the US the President in TV and film is played by folks like Harrison Ford and Martin Sheen
isall
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I think Kennedy is important for another reason. he's generally considered the first President for whom TV was a big deal. The TV debate with Nixon is seen by many as having won him that tight election, it didnt hurt that he was young and photogenic.
He also comes around at the time that TV drama was taking off and depictions of the fictional President were just beginning. Ignoring biopics and historical movies I can't remember seeing any cinematic depiction of the US President before the 1950's? Once you have TV having to fill so many hours every week the depiction of the President as a fictional character increases.
It's hard to beat those perfect president.
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Quote:You’re welcome. It’s always a pleasure to prove someone wrong, and have them thank me for it.
Originally posted by Storymark:
Wow, you managed to evade the qestion and prove my point in one feel swoop. Nice. Thanks.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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He's the president we can drink a beer with.
However, (last call!) he needs to go home now, and we need to sober up.
--WhoDied
_______________________
Evil. Good. These are moral absolutes that predate the
absolution of malt and fine hops. You see, wait-- where was I?
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Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Well, I don't believe he got the full breifing on the whole situation right there in the classroom, so I'd say step one would be get off his ass and make sure he was aware of all available information.
So you do not have a problem with what Bush did, you have a problem with when Bush did it. If Bush had immediately run from the classroom and hid in his limo for half an hour, then you would be okay with his actions? There would be no tape of Bush in the classroom then. And when it comes down to it, we are speaking of optics here, nothing more.
Christ, do you even read before responding? Or are you just incapable of anything but a straw-man response?
Perhaps I was not as clear in making my point as I could have been. Let's ask for clarification first before going off "half-cocked" all the time shall we.
Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
No, I wouldn't want him to go "hide in his limo", I would have liked for him to get involved. If that entailed getting a breifing in his limo - so bit it. But sitting on his ass is not the action of a leader.
Say Bush had of been on the toilet when he got the news instead of in the classroom. Say Bush sat and did nothing for half an hour (well almost nothing
) until he came out for his briefing. You would have no issue with how Bush handled himself that day because you would have no tape showing the man doing something you find 'un-presidential'.I'm not saying do not hate Bush, I'm saying why hate Bush for something as trivial as not responding to a catastrophe in the way You think he should have.
By the way,
Storymark secretly loves Bush and all he stands for but decided to follow the majority of Bush haters on this forum because of a lemming like personality derived from his shockingly low self esteem.
Now that's a strawman argument.
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Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Well, I don't believe he got the full breifing on the whole situation right there in the classroom, so I'd say step one would be get off his ass and make sure he was aware of all available information.
So you do not have a problem with what Bush did, you have a problem with when Bush did it. If Bush had immediately run from the classroom and hid in his limo for half an hour, then you would be okay with his actions? There would be no tape of Bush in the classroom then. And when it comes down to it, we are speaking of optics here, nothing more.
Christ, do you even read before responding? Or are you just incapable of anything but a straw-man response?
Perhaps I was not as clear in making my point as I could have been. Let's ask for clarification first before going off "half-cocked" all the time shall we.Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
No, I wouldn't want him to go "hide in his limo", I would have liked for him to get involved. If that entailed getting a breifing in his limo - so bit it. But sitting on his ass is not the action of a leader.
Say Bush had of been on the toilet when he got the news instead of in the classroom. Say Bush sat and did nothing for half an hour (well almost nothing
I'm not saying do not hate Bush, I'm saying why hate Bush for something as trivial as not responding to a catastrophe in the way You think he should have.
By the way,
Storymark secretly loves Bush and all he stands for but decided to follow the majority of Bush haters on this forum because of a lemming like personality derived from his shockingly low self esteem.
Now that's a strawman argument.
Okay, I see your point. But it's not so much a matter of hating him for not doing what I think he should have (though is are hardly a shortage of reasons to hate him) - but for not doing anything at all. True, if he had not been on camera, I would not know what he had or had not been doing . In which case, I wouldn't be so pissed about his response, beause I simply would not have known (and at this point in history, I didn't hate him - I wasn't a big fan, but I didn't hate the man). But the fact remains, he was on camera, and did nothing. And I do hold him accountable for that. If he's going to freeze up, he should have done it in private, so he could have at least maintained the illusion of being a leader.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:Quote:You’re welcome. It’s always a pleasure to prove someone wrong, and have them thank me for it.
Originally posted by Storymark:
Wow, you managed to evade the qestion and prove my point in one feel swoop. Nice. Thanks.
You really need to workin on sharpening those reading skills, boyo.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:No, that's an Ad Hominem and a Red Herring.
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
By the way,
Storymark secretly loves Bush and all he stands for but decided to follow the majority of Bush haters on this forum because of a lemming like personality derived from his shockingly low self esteem.
Now that's a strawman argument.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:So you hate Bush because you imagine that on 9/ll some Bush signal lit up the sky and Bush didn’t tear off his suit to reveal the red, white and blue tights of Bushman, and then jump out the window and fly to single handedly rescue the world.
Originally posted by Storymark:Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:Quote:You’re welcome. It’s always a pleasure to prove someone wrong, and have them thank me for it.
Originally posted by Storymark:
Wow, you managed to evade the qestion and prove my point in one feel swoop. Nice. Thanks.
You really need to workin on sharpening those reading skills, boyo.
I think BDN is right. You secretly love Bush. You’re just angry like a little kid who just discovered Santa Clause is fake because reality encroached on your fantasy world.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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American Presidents generally get judged by how they handled the economy, how they handled any foreign policy crises and how united the nation was as a result of their presidency.
So by any conceivable measure, Bush is going down as one of the worst Presidents in history with a footnote that the electorate in 2004 were one of the most gullible and short-sighted in history.
However, as the question was asking why Bush might be considered a great man, let's look at his good points:
He is very personable and people do say he is charming.
He has set aside large funds for many projects that had been neglected, including billions for the needy in Africa.
He successfully led a coalition of dozens of nations against the oppressive regime of Afghanistan.
He formed bonds with some countries that hitherto had kept the US at arms length, including Pakistan.
He had no major personal scandals during his time as President.
Any others?
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OK, here's the thing with W's 9/11 lack of reaction.
At that moment, no one knew that the event was limited to 4 hijacked planes. I clearly remember the people I was with, and the stuff on TV, the wild speculation as hijacked planes everywhere and possible attacks - like ground attacks. In fact, the first thing I heard was a guy yelling: We're at war! as if the WTC was merely the first hit and troop transports and bomber planes were now on their way in ala Red Dawn. Which is a little much, but you get my point.
In this situation, where shit is going down, I want the leader of my country to be a person of action who starts moving, starts gathering info, and does his damnedest to see what can be done. Even if it's found that there's nothing he can do, he can at very least be a LEADER and serve as an example of calm, rational action to a couple million very frightened people who are looking to him as the man they elected. (Oh wait - they didn't...)
What W did that morning showed what he is. He is not a leader. He is not decisive. As soon as the words "the second tower's been hit" were uttered, he should have been on the move. Clearly he lacks the intelligence and independence of thought to make that judgement call. When I say mashed potatoes from the eyebrows on back, this is what I mean.
W has been told what to do by daddy, and told what to do by Cheney, and that morning he sat on his ass until he was told what to do by his handlers. Leader of the free world my ass. This chump's a puppet, and Jan 20 2009 can't come fast enough.
Morning rant over.
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hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left
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Quote:Many of the people who work for him say that when faced with a Cabinet-level decision he freezes. His eyes glaze over, he gives you the 1000-yard stare when you make your pitch, and "he" doesn't decide until after he's had a private consult with Cheney. (That was back in the day when Cabinet members were something other than total yes-men and tried to bring real news to the table.)
He is very personable and people do say he is charming.
In addition, I've heard that he gets very very angry over little things- like not having his coffee brought to him on time- and that he's got a tyrannical streak. The charm is reserved for fund-raisers.
---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.
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Quote:Another proponent of the Batman philosophy of presidential conduct. What should he have done? Run out to the ruins of the WTC and exclaim to Cheney, “Those dastardly villains!!!”
Originally posted by mal4prez:
What W did that morning showed what he is. He is not a leader. He is not decisive. As soon as the words "the second tower's been hit" were uttered, he should have been on the move. Clearly he lacks the intelligence and independence of thought to make that judgement call. When I say mashed potatoes from the eyebrows on back, this is what I mean.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:
So you hate Bush because you imagine that on 9/ll some Bush signal lit up the sky and Bush didn’t tear off his suit to reveal the red, white and blue tights of Bushman, and then jump out the window and fly to single handedly rescue the world.
I think the problem is, you actually think he DID do this...
My problem with what Shrub did and didn't do on 9/11 is that he looked like the deer in the headlights; he had no clue what was going on, no real desire to find out, and absolutely no will or balls to do anything about it. He decided he'd hide behind the kids like Martin Sheen in "The Dead Zone" (the movie, not that crappy TV show) and keep his head buried in his book.
Silly, silly me... I expect my leaders, in a time of national crisis, to actually LEAD, not to sit around with their thumbs up their asses waiting for someone else to tell them what to say, do, or think. And, given that he didn't have the full story, shouldn't he have at least been in the car, on the way to the airport, ON THE PHONE AND IN TOUCH WITH PEOPLE WHO JUST MIGHT KNOW WHAT WAS GOING ON?!
I'm sure you think it's just hunky-dory that he stayed on vacation all through the Katrinal disaster, too. It's not that he personally could have really done anything about it, but he could have been SEEN to be doing something. Anything. One thing you haven't learned about politics: It's all about perception. If you're perceived as an idiot and a do-nothing, it hardly matters whether it's true or not. Just ask John Kerry, whom your party has portrayed as a traitor, a coward, a snob, and a fake. So your problem is that we're calling out Bush on being a do-nothing dolt, when in fact that's what he is, and always has been.
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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The question is, would you REALLY want him to dash in and just do what his GUT told him to do?
Really?
This guy has problems eating pretsles and you want him to improvise?
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In response to Finn...
Quote:
My problem with what Shrub did and didn't do on 9/11 is that he looked like the deer in the headlights; he had no clue what was going on, no real desire to find out, and absolutely no will or balls to do anything about it.
Silly, silly me... I expect my leaders, in a time of national crisis, to actually LEAD, not to sit around with their thumbs up their asses waiting for someone else to tell them what to say, do, or think.
What he said.
-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left
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Quote:
Originally posted by PirateCat:
Bush did a good job for me. If he killed more terrorists I would rated him higher. Start with the finsbury park crowd since the english don't have the guts anymore. 4 years from now we need another BUSH.
I don't know *loads* about Bush, hence won't comment overall. Although to respond to this query, the majority of us Brits ARE in favour of fighting Islamo-fascists, however our crappy Labour Government are scared of Muslims (they recently gave extremist Muslims £100 million to build a super mosque, even though the Govt. aren't legally meant to fund any sort of religion..)
However once this Government is kicked out of office in 1-2 years, we'll (hopefully) be back with a decent foreign policy soon..
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Quote:
Say Bush had of been on the toilet when he got the news instead of in the classroom. Say Bush sat and did nothing for half an hour (well almost nothing) until he came out for his briefing.
M'kay... even if I'm in the middle of a four-flusher, I think I can pinch it off if my country is under attack, and go see what the fuck is going on, and what I can do about it.
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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Quote:
What should he have done?
Well, if nothing else, he could have put down his book, or at the very least, turned it so he wasn't reading it upside-down! :)
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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Quote:
At that moment, no one knew that the event was limited to 4 hijacked planes. I clearly remember the people I was with, and the stuff on TV, the wild speculation as hijacked planes everywhere and possible attacks - like ground attacks.
Yup, that's certainly the way it was here in Austin. There was at least a little bit of panic about whether there would be an attack on the state capitol building (since W claims to be "from here"), or on the University of Texas, where Jenna was going to school at the time. There was simply no clue as to whether there were more planes inbound, or what.
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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Quote:Them and their constant pushing for indefinite detention, Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, how many police raids is it now...
Originally posted by tristanperry:
I don't know *loads* about Bush, hence won't comment overall. Although to respond to this query, the majority of us Brits ARE in favour of fighting Islamo-fascists, however our crappy Labour Government are scared of Muslims
Quote:The UK Government has made no such funding for any mosque built by any Muslims, extremist or otherwise. Also, there is no explicit rule that I know of that prevents the UK Government from funding religious endeavours. The UK Government is secular, but it's secularism is of a somewhat different flavour to America's.
(they recently gave extremist Muslims £100 million to build a super mosque, even though the Govt. aren't legally meant to fund any sort of religion..)
Links please.
Quote:Sure if we don't get that moron Cameron in Charge. The only policy he has is "the other guy is wrong, ayup!" But hey, it was certainly enough to get a Clown elected to London mayor...
However once this Government is kicked out of office in 1-2 years, we'll (hopefully) be back with a decent foreign policy soon..
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Well, if nothing else, he could have put down his book, or at the very least, turned it so he wasn't reading it upside-down! :)
But I thought we weren't supposed to let the terrorists dictate our actions to us.
According to some on this board, Bush did exactly the right thing by not letting a terrorist attack interfere with his agenda.
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And the dopey post-of-the-day Award goes to...
BDN!!!!!isall
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Quote:And there you have it. This batman fantasy is what you have come to expect from reality? Are you and others such a product of a television age where you can’t separate fiction from reality, or is this just an excuse? Are you instead just jumping on the popular “Bush-hater” trend, but lack the understanding to appreciate why some don’t disagree with Bush, so you use this an excuse to following some trend?
Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
So you hate Bush because you imagine that on 9/ll some Bush signal lit up the sky and Bush didn’t tear off his suit to reveal the red, white and blue tights of Bushman, and then jump out the window and fly to single handedly rescue the world.
I think the problem is, you actually think he DID do this...
I’m not really sure where this comes from, but I do know that of all the reasons to be opposed to the Bush presidency this is about the dumbest.
Quote:And this is really interesting, because you accept that this whole thing is a fabrication, but you can’t imagine not going allow with it. You convinced yourself that, it doesn’t matter what the truth actually is, just that the perception created by the media is the only real truth. So someone in the media created an imaginary two-dimensional perception, and you accept it and even defend it as it if is real.
Originally posted by Kwicko:
I'm sure you think it's just hunky-dory that he stayed on vacation all through the Katrinal disaster, too. It's not that he personally could have really done anything about it, but he could have been SEEN to be doing something. Anything. One thing you haven't learned about politics: It's all about perception. If you're perceived as an idiot and a do-nothing, it hardly matters whether it's true or not. Just ask John Kerry, whom your party has portrayed as a traitor, a coward, a snob, and a fake. So your problem is that we're calling out Bush on being a do-nothing dolt, when in fact that's what he is, and always has been.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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"So you hate Bush because you imagine that on 9/ll some Bush signal lit up the sky and Bush didn’t tear off his suit to reveal the red, white and blue tights of Bushman, and then jump out the window and fly to single handedly rescue the world."
That's an insult to Bushmen everywhere.
***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:Quote:So you hate Bush because you imagine that on 9/ll some Bush signal lit up the sky and Bush didn’t tear off his suit to reveal the red, white and blue tights of Bushman, and then jump out the window and fly to single handedly rescue the world.
Originally posted by Storymark:Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:Quote:You’re welcome. It’s always a pleasure to prove someone wrong, and have them thank me for it.
Originally posted by Storymark:
Wow, you managed to evade the qestion and prove my point in one feel swoop. Nice. Thanks.
You really need to workin on sharpening those reading skills, boyo.
I think BDN is right. You secretly love Bush. You’re just angry like a little kid who just discovered Santa Clause is fake because reality encroached on your fantasy world.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
I like this. every time I post something, you show yourself to be more and more of a rediculouse moron. Keep it up, Finn you beautiful retard.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:No, I think he should have sat in pallid stupefied silence in front of an elementary-grade class, holding a level-2 reading book in his hand until his Secret Service told him to move. Twenty minutes later.
Another proponent of the Batman philosophy of presidential conduct. What should he have done? Run out to the ruins of the WTC and exclaim to Cheney, “Those dastardly villains!!!”
Oh wait... that's what he did.
Then - GOOD JOB!
---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:Quote:Another proponent of the Batman philosophy of presidential conduct. What should he have done? Run out to the ruins of the WTC and exclaim to Cheney, “Those dastardly villains!!!”
Originally posted by mal4prez:
What W did that morning showed what he is. He is not a leader. He is not decisive. As soon as the words "the second tower's been hit" were uttered, he should have been on the move. Clearly he lacks the intelligence and independence of thought to make that judgement call. When I say mashed potatoes from the eyebrows on back, this is what I mean.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
Oh, nice to see it's not just me. You reveal your utter stupidity with others, as well.
Of course, you deliberately remove the salient point from what you quote, but mal quite clearly stated what a "leader" should have done - gathering info, rather than sitting there is petrified silence being a good start.
how you read that, and then jump to spuer tights is utterly amazing. Did you stop taking your meds, or something?
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:Damnit! There you go again asking Finn more questions! Don't you realize that question marks set off a little firestorm in his brain? C'mon man! Have a heart!
how you read that, and then jump to spuer tights is utterly amazing. Did you stop taking your meds, or something?
---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.
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Quote:Let me get this straight. You're surprised that Finn can only converse by misrepresenting what someone else said?
Originally posted by Storymark:
Did you stop taking your meds, or something?
How long have you been posting here again?
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:Them and their constant pushing for indefinite detention, Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, how many police raids is it now...
Most of that was Blair stuff. In fact, Blair set ALL of that up.
Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:The UK Government has made no such funding for any mosque built by any Muslims, extremist or otherwise. Also, there is no explicit rule that I know of that prevents the UK Government from funding religious endeavours. The UK Government is secular, but it's secularism is of a somewhat different flavour to America's.
Links please.
MOSQUE LINKS
http://chat.thisislondon.co.uk/london/threadnonInd.jsp?forum=117&threa
d=230622
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2006/sep/24/communities.religion
http://www.anglican-mainstream.net/2006/09/07/40000-person-mosque-plan
ned-for-west-ham-london/
http://inspigoblog.wordpress.com/2006/10/17/i-am-voting-no-for-the-stg
-100m-london-mosque/
http://www.woyano.com/view/4992/Tax-payers-money-to-build-enormous-100
m-mosque
http://www.aboutlife.com/alfrench/100m_mosque
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1810194/posts
http://www.fiatforum.com/leisure-lounge/99411-100m-mosque-london.html
And officially the UK IS still a Christian country. Obviously it isn't in practise, although officially it is.
But I guess you'll find some great excuse to ignore all the links I posted up?
Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:Sure if we don't get that moron Cameron in Charge. The only policy he has is "the other guy is wrong, ayup!" But hey, it was certainly enough to get a Clown elected to London mayor...
Yep, a PM that does U-Turns weekly, and an anti-Semitic Mayor are MUCH better...
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Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Let me get this straight. You're surprised that Finn can only converse by misrepresenting what someone else said?
How long have you been posting here again?
Now that's an ad hominem and red herring.
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Quote:Thanks for pointing that out, Storymark.
Originally posted by Storymark:
Of course, you deliberately remove the salient point from what you quote, but mal quite clearly stated what a "leader" should have done - gathering info, rather than sitting there is petrified silence being a good start.
I hate to pull the troll card, but I don't how else to explain the way Finn so easily misses the blatantly obvious. Troll? Or near psychotic level of Bush worship? (trying hard not to add the obvious R rated joke here...
) -----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left
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Double,
Nothing to see here, move along.
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Quote:Who was the head of the Labour Party until pretty recently. Either way your accusation is still baseless and absurd.
Originally posted by tristanperry:
Most of that was Blair stuff. In fact, Blair set ALL of that up.
I wrote:
Quote:
The UK Government has made no such funding for any mosque built by any Muslims, extremist or otherwise.
Quote:I indeed know about the mega mosque. What I said was it wasn't being funded by tax money.
http://chat.thisislondon.co.uk/london/threadnonInd.jsp?forum=117&threa
d=230622
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2006/sep/24/communities.religion
http://www.anglican-mainstream.net/2006/09/07/40000-person-mosque-plan
ned-for-west-ham-london/
http://inspigoblog.wordpress.com/2006/10/17/i-am-voting-no-for-the-stg
-100m-london-mosque/
http://www.aboutlife.com/alfrench/100m_mosque
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1810194/posts
http://www.fiatforum.com/leisure-lounge/99411-100m-mosque-london.html
The only fathomable link with some credibility that even mentions UK funding doesn't mention the Government, merely parties within the UK, and also mentions that most of the funding would be coming from Saudi Arabia. I'm sorry to burst some sort of Daily Express induced bubble of outrage, but there it is.
The only link that says it is to be funded by the UK Government, was this:
Quote:
http://www.woyano.com/view/4992/Tax-payers-money-to-build-enormous-100
m-mosque
Which is a meaningless and unsupported blog spot. It's about as useful as me saying "no it isn't". Linking to an unsupported opinion piece is no better than not linking at all.
Thanks though, I asked you for links, and everything of any merit you provided supported my original statement.
Quote:In the same way the UK is a Monarchy, yeah.
And officially the UK IS still a Christian country. Obviously it isn't in practise, although officially it is.
Either way, there's still no rule against the UK Government funding religious enterprise of any denomination.
Quote:Why would I do that? Your links prove me right.
But I guess you'll find some great excuse to ignore all the links I posted up?
Quote:Yes, as we all know criticising the Israeli government is the same thing as anti-Semitism, except of course it isn't.
Yep, a PM that does U-Turns weekly, and an anti-Semitic Mayor are MUCH better...
Boris has no policies, and was elected on the platform of "the other guy is wrong". Cameron is running on a platform of "the other guy is wrong". Notice a pattern at all? Neither has any policies of their own, and I note with some dissatisfaction, how British politics seems to be slowly sliding into the mire of Americanised races of personality. With a dissatisfied public merely saying "the other guy is wrong", might serve to get elected, but it doesn't make for a workable policy.
Also, in case you haven't noticed (which evidently you haven't) I've not really endorsed either Ken Livingstone nor Gordon Brown. Gordon Brown is evidently someone ideal suited to being 'number 2' and I haven't voted Labour in years. I don't see that Ken has done a disastrous job in London, certainly not bad enough to be replaced by the laughing stock of 'Have I Got News for you". Many of the current problems of this country stem from the Major and Thatcher regimes, and Labour has merely been too incompetent to set them straight. I'm sure as hell not ready to stick the people that caused them in the first place back in power, because Labour haven't fixed them though.
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Quote:No, it's just an ad Hominem.
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Now that's an ad hominem and red herring.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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ok, so what is it...? Seven months of the Bush Regime left..? What's the worst that could happen.. wait, don't answer that.
Hopefully we can somehow put these past eight years behind us - it seems that we have lost so much in those years. I read recently that an estimated 8 out of 10 Americans believe that this country is on the wrong path, or has lost it's center - that, I blame on Bush - his shortsightedness in regards to the welfare of the citizens of this country is staggering...
As most of you know, I have never been a fan of Bush or the entire neo-con agenda - so yeah, I am biased. But the thing that really bothers me more is the fact that there are so many in this country who supported these guys, not once, but twice - and in fact, still do.
If a nation is only as good as it's leaders, then aren't the people who elect those leaders ultimately responsible for the results...
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Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Boris has no policies, and was elected on the platform of "the other guy is wrong". Cameron is running on a platform of "the other guy is wrong". Notice a pattern at all? Neither has any policies of their own, and I note with some dissatisfaction, how British politics seems to be slowly sliding into the mire of Americanised races of personality. With a dissatisfied public merely saying "the other guy is wrong", might serve to get elected, but it doesn't make for a workable policy.
I agree that the Tories and Labour (and the Lib Dems) don't have any real, meaningful policies. IMHO (you may disagree) we need another Thatcher - someone who will do what he/she thinks is right, and not back-down when the going gets touch.
However, Boris has got policies. He pretty much instantly (as a quick example) came out with trying to ban alcohol on public transport, and instantly the unions started saying it was impossible. It's not his fault that unions don't like change.
And Cameron does have some good policies, as a very basic example the inheritance tax fiasco (which Labour then knicked). However I still agree that neither Labour nor the Tories have any real policies.
Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Also, in case you haven't noticed (which evidently you haven't) I've not really endorsed either Ken Livingstone nor Gordon Brown. Gordon Brown is evidently someone ideal suited to being 'number 2' and I haven't voted Labour in years. I don't see that Ken has done a disastrous job in London, certainly not bad enough to be replaced by the laughing stock of 'Have I Got News for you". Many of the current problems of this country stem from the Major and Thatcher regimes, and Labour has merely been too incompetent to set them straight. I'm sure as hell not ready to stick the people that caused them in the first place back in power, because Labour haven't fixed them though.
Fair enough, and I did notice you weren't endorsing either of them.
But seriously... you don't like Thatcher? She was the best thing to happen to this country... short of sliced bread.
Okay, I won't go there
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Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:Quote:No, it's just an ad Hominem.
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Now that's an ad hominem and red herring.
And here I thought this thread was about Bush, not Finn.
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Quote:Which is why I haven't a clue who to vote for come the next election. For the safety of clearly delineated camps so I don't need to think about such things...
Originally posted by tristanperry:
I agree that the Tories and Labour (and the Lib Dems) don't have any real, meaningful policies. IMHO (you may disagree) we need another Thatcher - someone who will do what he/she thinks is right, and not back-down when the going gets touch.
Quote:I disagree, I think that's the sort of thing one does when one doesn't have any policies.
However, Boris has got policies. He pretty much instantly (as a quick example) came out with trying to ban alcohol on public transport, and instantly the unions started saying it was impossible. It's not his fault that unions don't like change.
Quote:In that case I retract the 'evidently hadn't'. It seemed you were speaking to me as a supporter of both.
Fair enough, and I did notice you weren't endorsing either of them.
Quote:Destruction of British Industry, neglect of the NHS, policies that promoted car ownership as a basic right everyone must have, whether they want to drive or not, policies for house ownership that's helped to push UK prices to higher than nearly anywhere else in the world, mishandling of a certain situation that led the Argentinians to believe that Britain wouldn't fight for the Falklands...
But seriously... you don't like Thatcher? She was the best thing to happen to this country... short of sliced bread.
Sure, a slow downward trend after the Second World War was reversed during Thatcher's time, but I wonder if that is because, or in spite of, her regime.
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Quote:Whatever its about, your attempt at revenge is no more on topic than anything else
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
And here I thought this thread was about Bush, not Finn.
However, since I wasn't trying to deflect from any point Finn was trying to make, it can't be a Red Herring. A Red Herring is off topic, but not all off Topic posts are a Red Herring, geddit?
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Which is why I haven't a clue who to vote for come the next election. For the safety of clearly delineated camps so I don't need to think about such things...
Me neither. I'm probably going Tories just in the hope that a more right-wing back-bench will be better than a more left-wing back-bench, although realistically it won't matter who I vote for (although I think at the moment that Labour are becoming a real liability at the helm of fiscal policy.. heh
)Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
I disagree, I think that's the sort of thing one does when one doesn't have any policies.
Maybe so, only time will tell
Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
In that case I retract the 'evidently hadn't'. It seemed you were speaking to me as a supporter of both.
Sure thing
Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Destruction of British Industry, neglect of the NHS, policies that promoted car ownership as a basic right everyone must have, whether they want to drive or not, policies for house ownership that's helped to push UK prices to higher than nearly anywhere else in the world, mishandling of a certain situation that led the Argentinians to believe that Britain wouldn't fight for the Falklands...
Sure, a slow downward trend after the Second World War was reversed during Thatcher's time, but I wonder if that is because, or in spite of, her regime.
Destruction of UK industry was down to the TUs resisting change. We were being controlled by the Trade Unions, and ultimately they needed tackling at some point. It was obviously always going to be a political nightmare, although someone had to do it.
And private house ownership is something that loads of people (where I live) somehow praise Labour for (the voters around here suck - they honestly believe that being allowed to buy your council house was a Labour policy..) It is a popular move overall, IMHO.
Either way, she actually stood up for herself and did what she thought was right. I haven't seen/heard of that since Thatcher.
And if there was a left-wing Thatcher, I'd greatly respect him/her too (albeit I'd completely disagree with his/her policies).
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:Quote:Damnit! There you go again asking Finn more questions! Don't you realize that question marks set off a little firestorm in his brain? C'mon man! Have a heart!
how you read that, and then jump to spuer tights is utterly amazing. Did you stop taking your meds, or something?
---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.
Right, right. I forget. It's just fun, the firestorm is pretty.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:Quote:Let me get this straight. You're surprised that Finn can only converse by misrepresenting what someone else said?
Originally posted by Storymark:
Did you stop taking your meds, or something?
How long have you been posting here again?
Clearly not enough to have learned my lesson. I'm used that that stuff from Rappy, but I though, for some reason, that Finn was capable of more rational discourse.
Must have imagined it. My appologies for feeding the troll.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
My appologies for feeding the troll.
No apologies needed, basic ingrained survival instincts prevent you from putting down the fork. You really have less control over it than you think you do.
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Quote:
And this is really interesting, because you accept that this whole thing is a fabrication, but you can’t imagine not going allow with it. You convinced yourself that, it doesn’t matter what the truth actually is, just that the perception created by the media is the only real truth. So someone in the media created an imaginary two-dimensional perception, and you accept it and even defend it as it if is real.
I think the difference is, you DON'T accept things that are obviously fabrications (Saddam's WMD, for example). I didn't say that Bush doing nothing was a fabrication - I said that even the perception that he was doing SOMETHING would have helped. Think along the lines of "If nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do." And for that to matter, you have to first DO SOMETHING!
Did Nero really fiddle while Rome burned? Historians say no - but the PERCEPTION was that he did nothing. And realistically, what was he going to do, put out the fires by himself? But because he was seen as not doing anything, that's the image that stuck throughout history. Bush will have the same image, fiddling away while the towers collapsed, fiddling away while Katrina flooded, fiddling away while the economy collapsed, and playing an encore in the face of global climate change...
My opposition to the Bush regime comes from the knowledge that he is simply not a bright person. He lacks intelligence (in more ways than one, as evidenced on 9/11 and after), he lacks curiosity, he lacks reasoning skills; in short, he's certainly not one of his father's "thousand points of light". In that analogy, he's the dim bulb.
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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