What would have happened to Simon...?
POSTED BY: THESOMNAMBULIST
UPDATED: Thursday, September 26, 2013 14:15
VIEWED: 14594
PAGE 6 of 8
Quote:
Originally posted by two:Quote:Are you absolutely, positively sure that the "Alliance" army on every planet is centrally and completely controlled by the one and only Parliament? Are all planets enslaved to the will of the Parliament and not really allies of the Alliance? When the Parliament says jump, every big and small population planet says how high?
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
You’re right there are some places that Alliance does not seem to have a lot of influence and power, but the difference between those places and the US vs. Pakistan example is that the Alliance could very easily if it wanted to. Those places do not have standing armies.
The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two
Pretty sure. We never see anything to suggest otherwise. As Byte points out "The Alliance has power where it has sent soldiers." In Serenity we are told that the Alliance does not have the troops to cover every place, so they rely on private security, payed for by the Alliance. It's called the Alliance because of formation, not how it actively operates.
I don't think there is a place in the Verse that the Alliance could not take near total control of, if it wanted to. For me that is what makes them scary. You can't beat them. In the BDM had the Operative not given the order at the end the whole crew would be dead. If the Parlament decides to go after River and Simon with full force and knows they are on Sernity, the entire crew will be caught or killed.
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:The Alliance can go to war and not win. Leaving science fiction for a real example of David vs Goliath: Vietnam vs China. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Vietnamese_War
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
I don't think there is a place in the Verse that the Alliance could not take near total control of, if it wanted to. For me that is what makes them scary. You can't beat them. In the BDM had the Operative not given the order at the end the whole crew would be dead. If the Parliament decides to go after River and Simon with full force and knows they are on Serenity, the entire crew will be caught or killed.
One more for the other half of the Alliance: Vietnam vs USA.
China could try again to bend Vietnam to its will, but why bother to break peace? And a Rim planet that is at peace but doesn't obey the Parliament, why would the Alliance go to war and risk losing? Is killing Simon & River worth a fight? Imagine they are semi-famous heroes, not fugitives with no known location. ( River was on Beaumonde TV's Dancing with the Stars while Serenity was being rebuilt. She won. )
The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Again there are big differences. The Alliance is limited in it's actions like the US was during Vietnam. The US and China couldn't just nuke Vietnam the way the Alliance could to any planet that decided to rebel. Shadow shows us that.
Also the Alliance may not have to go to war. All they have to do is locate Simon and River on the planet and kill them in a local strike.
We just don't see any evidence that any planet in the Verse is going to stand up against the Alliance, nor could. If a writer wants to add that it is up to them, but it adds entities to the Firefly Universe.
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Blue Sun Company could probably strangle the Alliance simply because they're such a huge monopoly and because the Alliance's economy is dependent on it. But that's not a planetary government.
Really the only way single planets could take on the Alliance is if some division arose in the core between two big player planets with the others falling in or turning independent. I mean basically the Alliance would have to be dissolving or non-existent by that point.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:The Alliance is supposed to be one solid piece (or Peace) held together by armies.
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
We just don't see any evidence that any planet in the Verse is going to stand up against the Alliance, nor could. If a writer wants to add that it is up to them, but it adds entities to the Firefly Universe.
The Alliance has 100 billion people to Earth's 7. There are 100 planets to Earth's 1. Our Earth is politically fractured, but the Alliance is MORE unified than our Earth? I doubt it.
The only 'Verse history we see is the partial history Mal and River see. That is a very incomplete, but we do know Earth history. And we know Joss Whedon didn't rewrite DNA to make humans better in 500 years.
The Unification War, call it a hot war, is over. You can't be certain it wasn't followed by a cold war. The Operative and the Hands of Blue men are assassins, which makes them appear to be future CIA. Cold warriors.
Why does the Alliance have assassins if it doesn't have external enemies? In Eastern Europe during the Cold war, it was secret police and courts, not roving assassins, that went after internal troublemakers like Simon and River.
Even the Operative said the Alliance has external enemies, without naming them: "Key members of Parliament. Key. The minds behind every diplomatic, military and covert operation in the galaxy, and you put them in a room with a psychic." The Alliance doesn't have diplomatic, military, covert operations against itself. There is more than just the mighty Parliament with power in the Verse.
The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by THESOMNAMBULIST:
What would have happened to Simon had he and River been caught? River, I imagine would have been taken back to the academy, but what about Simon? Would he have been sent to jail. or something more severe...? Indeed is there any reference to the death penalty in the Verse ?
On the record? Probably a space-bus crashed and he was among the ashes....
Off the record? Hands of Blue......
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by two:
The Alliance is supposed to be one solid piece (or Peace) held together by armies.
The Alliance has 100 billion people to Earth's 7. There are 100 planets to Earth's 1. Our Earth is politically fractured, but the Alliance is MORE unified than our Earth? I doubt it.
The only 'Verse history we see is the partial history Mal and River see. That is a very incomplete, but we do know Earth history. And we know Joss Whedon didn't rewrite DNA to make humans better in 500 years.
The Unification War, call it a hot war, is over. You can't be certain it wasn't followed by a cold war. The Operative and the Hands of Blue men are assassins, which makes them appear to be future CIA. Cold warriors.
Why does the Alliance have assassins if it doesn't have external enemies? In Eastern Europe during the Cold war, it was secret police and courts, not roving assassins, that went after internal troublemakers like Simon and River.
Even the Operative said the Alliance has external enemies, without naming them: "Key members of Parliament. Key. The minds behind every diplomatic, military and covert operation in the galaxy, and you put them in a room with a psychic." The Alliance doesn't have diplomatic, military, covert operations against itself. There is more than just the mighty Parliament with power in the Verse.
I think it would have those operations against itself. We see that in Serenity at the beginning. The first three people the Operative kills are Alliance.
I'm sure the Alliance government does have enemies. Thing is they are not entire planets with military power of their own. More political and economic factions that may wish to apply presser on the government. We see that in many countries in the world who have totalitarian governments. Again the world is not a good analog because it is not ruled by a single entity. People in the Verse may not like the Alliance government, but that does not mean they have the means or the will to fight them.
The biggest thing that does not make sense with your thoughts on the Verse is if another power exists why did River and Simon not seek asylum there? Why stay within Alliance controlled space and risk getting caught?
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Two thinks that Earth is still around and kicking, and the Alliance is keeping it secret.
Could be as you say and not going to Earth is an indication Earth is dead, or could be the crew hasn't found out about it.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Two thinks that Earth is still around and kicking, and the Alliance is keeping it secret.
Could be as you say and not going to Earth is an indication Earth is dead, or could be the crew hasn't found out about it.
Even if earth was still around it would be a generation if not more away and a non-factor.
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME