What would have happened to Simon...?
POSTED BY: THESOMNAMBULIST
UPDATED: Thursday, September 26, 2013 14:15
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If that is what he believes that is fine. Everyone is going to have a slightly different view of the Verse. He just has to understand adding things like FTL drives is adding things to the Verse that we simple don't see.
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
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Quote:I do not believe FTL should be part of Firefly. I want Firefly to be realistic -- the Anti-Star Wars/Trek, as Joss called it, in contrast to Star Wars/Trek fantasy world that has faster than light travel making possible galactic empire nonsense.
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Two thinks FTL drives or prototypes exist.
Quote:If Earth is dead, it kills possible stories. Who wants to oversimplify the Verse? Where is the fun in that?
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
I think the problem with retconning Earth's destruction is more an issue with climactic storytelling and use of antagonists, but to each their own.
The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two
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Quote:I want to add a government of Beaumonde -- home of Fanty and Mingo, also the planet where Serenity was rebuilt -- that the Alliance will hesitate before pissing it off.
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
He just has to understand adding things like FTL drives is adding things to the Verse that we simple don't see.
After the movie, there is nothing keeping the Alliance from killing Simon and River when the whim once more strikes the Parliament. There needs to be an Avenger moment when an Operative is told in deadly seriousness, “We might not be able to save the Tams, but you can be damn sure we will avenge them.” Without a little counterbalance to the Alliance, the Tams are dead, dead, dead.
Or they have to leave Serenity to keep from being blown out of the sky. If the Tams, Kaylee & Inara leave Serenity because it is missile target so long as the Tams are onboard, the show can't be called Firefly. Nobody wants the name change.
The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two
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I tend to agree with the British Empire interpretation of the verse, the Alliance is able to impose law everywhere, but some areas have less, sometimes very little, Alliance presence because the Alliance sees them as backwaters with nothing of importance, but if something did happen there they'd high tail it over to those little planets which they can get away with doing because they do have official power, even if they don't usually excercise it.
I assume you're my pal until you let me know otherwise.
"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.
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Quote:
Originally posted by two:
I want to add a government of Beaumonde -- home of Fanty and Mingo, also the planet where Serenity was rebuilt -- that the Alliance will hesitate before pissing it off.
After the movie, there is nothing keeping the Alliance from killing Simon and River when the whim once more strikes the Parliament. There needs to be an Avenger moment when an Operative is told in deadly seriousness, “We might not be able to save the Tams, but you can be damn sure we will avenge them.” Without a little counterbalance to the Alliance, the Tams are dead, dead, dead.
Or they have to leave Serenity to keep from being blown out of the sky. If the Tams, Kaylee & Inara leave Serenity because it is missile target so long as the Tams are onboard, the show can't be called Firefly. Nobody wants the name change.
You can believe and add what you want. Thing is I don't think you need to add a governments to planets that will make that Alliance think twice, nor have an avenging moment against the Tams. The Parliament will have enough to worry about after the Miranda Wave, not to mention that some in power may indeed think that revenge against the Tams is pointless. More so if it is kept secrete that Serenity sent the wave.
To me having factions within the Parliament wanting different things and believing in different ways to proceed is easier to swallow that what you are purposing because it goes against what is seen.
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
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Quote:You sound like my great-grandma, who can't imagine the Apollo moon landings happened. She wants more proof. A round trip to Luna would be enough to change her mind.
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
You can believe and add what you want.
The only Browncoats we know for sure disarmed after Serenity Valley were Mal and Zoe. As far as we know, other battles ended with cease fires. More war was possible. For a real example, see Korean War. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War
Because neither side crushed the other, the USA is careful about North Korea to this day. There is no war, but no treaty. Now imagine N Korea with H-bombs & ICBMs. The USA would be very, very careful.
If a Rim planet, such as Beaumonde, signed an armistice and has H-bombs, the Alliance would be very polite, especially if Beaumonde, before and after the Unification War, is like S Korea after the Korean War, an important trading partner. Anyone claiming that the central planets captured the Rim's H-bombs needs to explain how the Alliance did that magic trick without being nuked.
Now imagine the Tams become national heroes of Beaumonde because of their trip to Miranda and the ass-whooping they gave the Alliance. Our heroes are heroes! The Alliance might think very carefully about killing the Tams. Killing might be the wrong move.
The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two
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Quote:
Originally posted by two:
You sound like my great-grandma, who can't imagine the Apollo moon landings happened. She wants more proof. A round trip to Luna would be enough to change her mind.
No, because we have proof of the moon landing, there is no evidence within Firefly or Serenity to support your vision.
Quote:
Originally posted by two:The only Browncoats we know for sure disarmed after Serenity Valley were Mal and Zoe. As far as we know, other battles ended with cease fires. More war was possible. For a real example, see Korean War. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War
Again the Korean War is not a good analogue because of the outside factors. The US Civil War is much better especially when you considered it was a big part of Joss's inspiration in writing Firefly.
Because neither side crushed the other, the USA is careful about North Korea to this day. There is no war, but no treaty. Now imagine N Korea with H-bombs & ICBMs. The USA would be very, very careful.
Quote:
Originally posted by two:If a Rim planet, such as Beaumonde, signed an armistice and has H-bombs, the Alliance would be very polite, especially if Beaumonde, before and after the Unification War, is like S Korea after the Korean War, an important trading partner. Anyone claiming that the central planets captured the Rim's H-bombs needs to explain how the Alliance did that magic trick without being nuked.
Simple, turning over such weapons if they where used as part of the armistice. From what see it is very clear that the Independence lost the war almost completely. Stories tell use that Shadow was bombed into a black rock. Most planet would want to avoid that.
Plus Beaumonde as we see it in Serenity (novel) is under enough Alliance control for the Operative to pick up Fanty and Mingo and question them.
Quote:
Originally posted by two:Now imagine the Tams become national heroes of Beaumonde because of their trip to Miranda and the ass-whooping they gave the Alliance. Our heroes are heroes! The Alliance might think very carefully about killing the Tams. Killing might be the wrong move.
Okay, I would not read past the description, nor watch that story. The whole thing that set Firefly apart is that it was not about hero's that change the 'Verse. It was about people who lost a war and them having to exist within that reality. The movie was understandable, but still did not bring down the Alliance.
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
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Quote:
If Earth is dead, it kills possible stories. Who wants to oversimplify the Verse? Where is the fun in that?
Kills possible stories, but this way the impact of the main myth arc isn't lessened. If they could have just left any time, the villains become a laughable threat and there's no reason to confront them. If there's no reason to confront them then the deaths, past and probable future, become pointless.
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Quote:The Rebels were back in charge of Virginia 4 years after the War. Virginia was back in Congress in 5 years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconstruction_Era_of_the_United_States
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Again the Korean War is not a good analogue because of the outside factors. The US Civil War is much better especially when you considered it was a big part of Joss's inspiration in writing Firefly.
20 years after the War, 1884, a Democrat was President. The Civil War analogy would have the Independents in control of some Rim planets in 4 years after War and controlling the Central Planets in 20.
Once the Civil War Reconstruction was over, the Northerner Army withdrew until the Civil Rights clashes of the next century. If the same happens on the Rim, the Alliance has already started withdrawing before the movie, Serenity.
If the Tams pick a planet to live on where the Alliance is withdrawing, the natives will be friendly. I see why the Alliance has Operatives assassins -- to surgically strike inside territory that the Alliance doesn't control after the Army withdraws. If they did control it, the Alliance would be using the local courts and police. See the history of Reconstruction, where Republicans took charge and then lost control.
The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two
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Quote:
Originally posted by two:
20 years after the War, 1884, a Democrat was President. The Civil War analogy would have the Independents in control of some Rim planets in 4 years after War and controlling the Central Planets in 20.
Once the Civil War Reconstruction was over, the Northerner Army withdrew until the Civil Rights clashes of the next century. If the same happens on the Rim, the Alliance has already started withdrawing before the movie, Serenity.
I did not realize we live in the United Confederate States of America...oh we don't! I can see pockets of Independent resistance holding up on some planets after the end of the war. Thing is Virginia being back in congress does not equate to a take over, it equates to acceptance. Democrat does not equal and never did equal rebel. After the civil war we had a single country under a single federal government.
Even if former Independence’s planets sent representatives to parliament and gain influence, it would still be the Alliance Government.
Quote:
Originally posted by two:
If the Tams pick a planet to live on where the Alliance is withdrawing, the natives will be friendly. I see why the Alliance has Operatives assassins -- to surgically strike inside territory that the Alliance doesn't control after the Army withdraws. If they did control it, the Alliance would be using the local courts and police. See the history of Reconstruction, where Republicans took charge and then lost control.
We see the use of local police, and the use of local courts is not very hard to imagine. The Alliance government is not going to allow them to be used for people it really wants tried.
You also may see the natives turning the Tams over in fear of the Alliance. If the Alliance held the planet once they could do it again. In the end we only see a lack of direct Alliance control on the Rim planets that have little means to live let alone fend off the Alliance military.
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
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