Iranian mother of two to be stoned to death

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Uhhh, our two parties demonize one another, does that mean they'll go to war? They look for and enhance stories about one another, as does all propaganda. It doesn't necessarily lead to war.

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Actually, I don't see this as impossible.

But you misunderstand. It doesn't lead to war, but when building up for a war, it's important.

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f you're going to be so worried about Iran and nuks, what about Russia and nukes? There you have a society so corrupted that the nukes aren't even being taken CARE of, and parts of them are sold off on the black market. Leaving aside deliberately starting a war, isn't it much more likely to have something stupid happen which starts something? I agree that I don't see Iran using nukes, or Israel (besides, Israel is doing just fine without them!), but what worries me is the state of Russia's nukes and the chances of something going wrong.

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I'm not, really, but being aware some people are, I was trying to start a discussion. It's not like I've never been wrong before, so we might as well spend our time coming up with contingencies.

Good point about Russia.

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Pizmo

Don't forget "We must save them from themselves"

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Kwickie,

So, by your twisted logic, we should ban cars, airplanes, boating, swimming, rock climbing, skateboarding, cycling, walking under trees, roofing, basketball, running,.... pretty much anything that has resulted in death. Because if the end result is death, it's the exact same as a death sentence.

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Well, that analogy MIGHT make sense if your government were to strap you into your car and use OnStar to send your car hurtling into a bridge abutment. You seem to be saying that since people died while your government was torturing them, it's not government-sanctioned. You should ask "Hero" how the law works; you kill someone in the commission of a crime, it's murder. Ergo, the U.S. government, under the specific direction of the Bush Administration, is guilty of murder. Torture is a war crime; Bush ordered torture; people died as a result; Bush is a murderer.

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We've never sentenced anyone to death via waterboarding. Final.

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We've killed people via waterboarding and torture. You've approved of it and endorsed it, time and again.

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I'm not wasting any more of my time on this.

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Wanna bet?


AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Originally posted by Bytemite:

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Uhhh, our two parties demonize one another, does that mean they'll go to war? They look for and enhance stories about one another, as does all propaganda. It doesn't necessarily lead to war.

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Actually, I don't see this as impossible.

But you misunderstand. It doesn't lead to war, but when building up for a war, it's important.

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f you're going to be so worried about Iran and nuks, what about Russia and nukes? There you have a society so corrupted that the nukes aren't even being taken CARE of, and parts of them are sold off on the black market. Leaving aside deliberately starting a war, isn't it much more likely to have something stupid happen which starts something? I agree that I don't see Iran using nukes, or Israel (besides, Israel is doing just fine without them!), but what worries me is the state of Russia's nukes and the chances of something going wrong.

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I'm not, really, but being aware some people are, I was trying to start a discussion. It's not like I've never been wrong before, so we might as well spend our time coming up with contingencies.

Good point about Russia.

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Byte's got the gist of it. Demonizing a group or a nation doesn't always lead to war, but we DO always show a need to demonize a people or a nation prior to going to war.

Anyone remember the Iraqis throwing all those Kuwaiti babies out of their hospital incubators? ;) Yeah... Never happened. Not one single documented case of that happening, but it sure made for great headlines leading up to Gulf War I.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

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Originally posted by mincingbeast:
Nice pun.

I oppose the death penalty, because I have squishy, delicate sensibilities. Its barbaric. But perhaps we can admit different degrees of barbarism, and not trip over ourselves in the rush to turn Iran's brutal Bronze Age practices into a window on our own failings. I don't need a poor Iranian woman to be stoned to put the US in perspective.

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Oh but I think you can. You can say that 'we put our citizens to death in a slightly less barbaric fashion' but you can't really, morally get outraged about a system that supports murdering its citizens when you do that as well.

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First of all, I am as immune to outrage as you are to reason. Second, if you really believe that there is no distinction to be drawn between stoning and other forms of the death penalty, Buddha help you. We might as well adopt stoning, and 8th Amendment be damned, because its all the same, you see?

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I grant you it is utilized to lead up to war, but I don't think that's the purpose right now.

I understand making the enemy "less than" human and how it makes it easier for people to hate them and want to bomb them. I just disagree that our government, or any other, is contemplating actually invading Iran, much less nuking them. For one thing, I don't think any government could AFFORD it right now, given the state of the global economy. WE sure couldn't!

Israel may be better off financially (I don't know, haven't heard on that), but they've got to know we couldn't afford to back them, and they've got enough countries surrounding them who'd love the excuse to bomb them out of existence if they started something like that.

I just don't buy it; I certainly believe in propaganda existing and being used. On the other hand, what I saw in Afghanistan tells me it's certainly possible those practices are still being used, and Iran is as likely as any other place to do so.

As to torture and causing death, there is no question in my mind that people died while incarcerated from the behavior of our troops. I think to deny that is deliberate ignorance, or blind faith in our government, which nobody should entertain.

Dumbya lied and faked his way to getting his agenda and it worked great, partly because he stuffed his administration with go-to boys, including the Justice Department.

If the lawyers are in your pocket, and you want them to declare any form of torture legal, they will. That doesn't make it legal; rather, that makes it a double crime. Everyone with any sense knows that, and the courts have determined it so--those courts that weren't sycophants of Dumbya. He and Darth did many illegal things, it's just that politics and government being what they are, they'll never be brought up on charges and made to face their crimes.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off

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