Help me - I'm confused by racial labels

POSTED BY: pizmobeach
UPDATED: Wednesday, August 9, 2023 16:59
VIEWED: 9570
PAGE 6 of 15

FIRST PAGE PREV PAGE 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 NEXT PAGE LAST PAGE

WULFENSTAR

Tuesday, September 22, 2009 6:09 PM

"Sorry, but I tho' I hate to, I agree with Wulf."

Jesus. Don't hate it too much.

WULFENSTAR

Tuesday, September 22, 2009 6:10 PM

"Wulf

I think you went past a very important question: do you identify with ALL 'Americans' ?

Because if you don't, then you are asking people to do something which you yourself won't do."

Yeah I do. And I see where you are going with this...

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, September 22, 2009 6:44 PM

Quote:
Because right now, there are hundreds, if not thousands of little mini-camps fighting each other.

The only way to stop the camps from fighting over what to do is to exterminate the differences. Otherwise there will always be disagreement.

Quote:
And nothing gets better.

It's not because of the existence of different groups that nothing gets better, or even the usual arguments that are involved with negotiation and progress, but because some people expertly know how to set those camps fighting at each other to a stalemate.

Quote:
I've finally realized what some here have been saying. If we really want things to change for the better, we all have to pull TOGETHER.

I can agree with that, but I don't think what you're suggesting is the way to do it. You say unite and you mean in EVERYTHING, under one common idea, put aside all differences and even reject all differences so that fighting stops.

It'll get your job done, but at what cost? What will you have set up in creating this system? People who are all alike are easily controllable and easy to manipulate.

Quote:
Of course, but identifying your national heritage as American should be a source of pride.

Why?

Why should I take more pride in being born within some artificial geo-political borders than I do in the culture and community I was raised in? Being "American" doesn't MEAN anything.

Quote:
Im tired of people thinking that America is this all you can eat buffet, where you come in load up and then bounce out. Or as a train way-station.

And btw, if its some much better in the old-country, whyd you come here?

Jobs. And you'll find that most people consider how they earn money with less affection than they do the family and the culture they may have left.

WULFENSTAR

Tuesday, September 22, 2009 6:54 PM

In any case... has the question been answered?

RUE

Tuesday, September 22, 2009 6:57 PM

"Yeah I do."

Actually, no you don't. There are many 'thems' you specifically do NOT identify with. There is YOU. And there is THEM.

I also find it ironic that you, who feel righteous in hating groups (groups BAAAAAD individuals GOOOOOD), now claim to not actually divide people into groups. BTW, that whole hating-groups-of-people-thaang is something we have all frequently see you do. YOU are the biggest flogger of group identity here.

It's even more delicious that you, who claim to hate groups, want us all to join one BIIIIIIG faceless group - americans.

You are seriously confused. One thought of yours can't help but run high speed head-on into another. And it all starts with the idea that 'they' were in total control of your life --- and theirs. That the only racism that exists is that 'they' think of themselves as black. If only 'they' wouldn't do that, then it would all disappear.

So, here's how I'm guessing it started. You didn't like being trapped in a bad place with an alcoholic mother (and, if I recall correctly, no father around). You didn't get along with the neighborhood kids either, 'cause you were a jerk. When you went crying to your mother, she - needing to blame someone who was not her - said 'you don't need them anyway, we're better than they are.' And you, needing to blame someone who was not either her or you, went along.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

WULFENSTAR

Tuesday, September 22, 2009 6:59 PM

Frem... a little help here.

Rue is pushing it and Im about to get ghetto on her.

ETA: Ok, Im going to sign off for a bit.

NIKI2

Tuesday, September 22, 2009 7:08 PM

There's a difference between "America should abandon uniform conformity" and coming together on some important things while maintaining our individuality. We can conform to what's necessary for the best and still treasure our heritage.

Quote:
because some people expertly now how to set those camps fighting at each other to a stalemate

Bingo. It's not about differences--or wouldn't be as much--it's about people teaching and using differences. Parents teach children to be racist, because they fear the "different". Leaders use differences to bolster the "us v. them" mentality to attain their own agendas.

Quote:
Im tired of people thinking that America is this all you can eat buffet, where you come in load up and then bounce out. Or as a train way-station.

And btw, if its some much better in the old-country, whyd you come here?

That's a silly statement...the vast majority of people who come here have to deal with the problems of existence the same as the rest of us; the number who "load up and then bounce out" are the vast minority, and even fewer consider it a train way-station!

Of COURSE it wasn't better in the old country, that's why most people come here--for a chance at a better life. That doesn't mean they leave the heritage they loved and grew up in behind, nor should it.

I hate agreeing with you, Wulf, because I decry many, if not most, of what you say; your black-and-white world isn't something I admire; I'd respect you if you addressed reality with real, attainable objectives, not just "heroic", Hollywoodized rhetoric.

Prime example is stating you agree with ALL Americans. It's physically impossible. I've long held that America is too big to be one country for just that reason. It's good that it IS one country, because the opposing views allow us to moderate the most extreme ones, but it also makes it difficult because differing views can cancel each other out.

You can't agree with all Americans. Some Americans are proud of our country and see no need to change it. Some want revolution, some want anarchy. Some are racist and totally convinced of their beliefs; some want to do away with racism. Some believe in equality; some believe those who need help should just disappear. Some are rabid Republicans; some equally rabid Democrats. To say you agree with "all" Americans just simply isn't possible. That's a perfect example of why I hate to agree with you.

Byte:

Quote:
The only way to stop the camps from fighting over what to do is to exterminate the differences. Otherwise there will always be disagreement.

But it can never happen. Human nature makes THAT impossible, too. We can agree on some things, but there will always be differences. Just the attitude people have in a small, rural farming community toward those in a skyscraper-dominated, 40-hour work week and suit urban mentality, and vice versa, makes it impossible.

Quote:
It's not because of the existence of different groups that nothing gets better, or even the usual arguments that are involved with negotiation and progress, but because some people expertly now how to set those camps fighting at each other to a stalemate.

Right on. It used to be that our two houses in government had opposing views, but compromised and negotiated to the point where things got done--however slowly. Now the parties are so polarized that they cancel one another out, and "progress" falls by the wayside--at least progress that enhances the lives of the majorty of Americans.

Quote:
Why should I take more pride in being born within some artificial geo-political borders than I do in the culture and community I was raised in? Being "American" doesn't MEAN anything.

Yes, it does. It's not just a matter of geopolitical borders, it's about a society and how it works and what it reveres and so much more. It means we accept the things our nation does and gives us, and it means responsibility for how our nation behaves and whether we blindly accept it or not.

Jo came here without a thought

KPO

Tuesday, September 22, 2009 7:16 PM

Quote:
Just as an observation, you keep saying things like "you're taking some colour out of things", and "being colour-blind is a little bland"....

So, besides the UK spelling of color, is there anything else to it?

Sure, I always mean something by what I say. Let me explain by way of an example:

If a friend came back from America talking about his new American girlfriend, I would like it for them to be descriptive. If the girl was a chinese american I would want him to say so - it would give me an immediate impression of what she looked like, and as well a general inkling of what might be her religion, politics, values, cullinary habits etc.(i'm not an expert on american society but I imagine their are ethnic trends). All these aspects are 'colour'.

If however my friend neglected to mention this exotic heritage, I would wonder at his blandness of taste.

Heads should roll

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, September 22, 2009 7:18 PM

Quote:
it's about a society and how it works and what it reveres and so much more. It means we accept the things our nation does and gives us, and it means responsibility for how our nation behaves and whether we blindly accept it or not.

Replace society and nation with the word culture.

I already have a culture. I do not consider it inherently American. If my culture is not American, what is American?

I don't think there is an answer, any definition for what "Being American" is. Therefore, I think "being American doesn't mean anything."

NIKI2

Tuesday, September 22, 2009 7:25 PM

That's interesting. I see by "color" you mean "colorfulness" rather than "race". It's an interesting concept...would we rather get an immediate impression of someone (which, in truth, also is a prejudgment of them) than decide for ourselves if/when we meet them, or if/when the person goes on to describe the things you mentioned? I think I'd prefer the latter...descriptive or not, a statement of a person's heritage can lead to misunderstandings.

Yes, of course there are ethnic trends, and much more! Given how many there are in just a small country like England--which could fit inside a number of our states--it's a given. And those ethnic trends don't necessarily reflect anyone's "heritage" or race, either. Nope, I'm for getting to know the person by more detailed description of the PERSON, not the race, 'cuz I'd jump to conclusions otherwise and have prejudgments of who the person is, their values, religion, politics, etc.

For example, if someone described my favorite supervisor a while back as "Black", it would give a very wrong impression. She moved here from New York, and had very New York attitudes; she was buddhist, not Muslim; her culinary tastes were definitely Italian; her taste in art was very avant garde; her "culture" and manner of speech, body language and gestures were far more "white" than "black"...so just saying I had a "black girlfriend" would give all sorts of wrong impressions.

Nope, gotta reject that theory once I think it through.

________________________
Together we are greater than the sum of our parts

FIRST PAGE PREV PAGE 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 NEXT PAGE LAST PAGE