Help me - I'm confused by racial labels
POSTED BY: pizmobeach
UPDATED: Wednesday, August 9, 2023 16:59
VIEWED: 9570
PAGE 2 of 15
To answer the main question of this thread, my view would be that the label white or black for a half black/half white person is simply determined by what distinguishes them most from society at large. Of course you can refer to them as half-white, but if you want to be lazy and describe things with just one word (which is how words are invented and gain popular use) you would plump for 'black' over 'white' - to be forced to call someone like obama 'white' in a predominantly white society, would be an unnatural, bland and *undescriptive* description I think.
For some wider perspective, I have a half black/half white friend who travelled to Uganda several years ago, and was surrounded with excited calls in the streets from the natives about his presence, that of a 'Muzungu' - 'white foreigner'.
Heads should roll
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Wulf babbled:
Ok... Im not being racist in answering this, but this the true answer...
If you are bi-racial, you are considered whatever the lowest blood is in your veins.
Black/white= black
White/hispanic= hispanic
Asian/black= black
Asian/white= Eurasian.
Ok, everyone don't jump on me for this but this is the truth
Okay, I'm second to say WTF is lowest blood? I think Mike said it first. That was my first thought as well.
Having studied genetics, I know that there is a form of genetic dominance due to the number of copies of particular genes you have. This is not Mendelian genetics. It's simply if you have something that has 8z genes, and something that has 0z, and you cross them and get 'z' 100% of the time, you have probalby 4z. Next generation you'll have 2z, and then 1z, but after that you start to get a mix of "no z" again. Given that, I think I can repair Wulf's list with science.
1. First, you left out a race of 1.5 billion people: South Asians.
Genetic dominance, yes, belongs to black ethnic groups, particularly west african. Genetic dominance is a decent part of why subsaharan africa is black, ditto for inner city america.
2. Black is a nonsense definition. You mean to say a member of Niger-Congo, Nilo-Saharan, or indigenous populations, at least three unrelated races.
3. Any hybrid is 100% of both, since they carry the full genome of both: Obama is 100% east african, and 100% northern european. He's Luo-Germanic, and you don't say that about a lot of people (maybe no one else?) Obama might be an ethnic group of 1. His kids have 1 west african genome (probably 20% european, per african american standard), and 1 Luo-Germanic gene mix.
The proper dominance chart would look something like this:
Okay,
Niger-Congo, black
East Asian (There are different subgroups here)
South Asian
Arabs
Nilo-Saharan, black
Indigenous African
European (There are different subgroups here)
The asian and european genetic derivations aren't nearly as different as the african, the african derivations are more different from one another than are to the rest of the world combined. Barack and Michelle are closer related to Wulf than they are to each other.
I omitted hispanic since they are a eurasian mix, some are strictly asian, genetically, others strictly european genetically, it's a culture, not a race.
I threw in arabs at the last minute, but I think they're pretty low on the genetic dominance order.
I'm sorry if I reversed your order, but that's genetic reality. If any race is "lower" it would be lower in genetic dominance, which would definitely place european last.
As for when that dominant race disappears from the genome, it's whenever the number of genesets that make up the racial characteristic set approaches zero.
For instance, many people would consider Phoebe Cates to be "white" and not "asian" indicating that 1/4 asian is white. Mariah Carey and Paula Abdul are generally considered "white" being 1/8 black.
This was the reason for the 1/8 rule for slaves. It was set specifically for one person: Sally Hemmings. Genetic evidence in the trial showed that in fact Sally hemmings was no part black, and that Thomas Jefferson was an Iranian. However, Hemmings children were sold as slaves along with Jefferson's black slaves, as a result, their children were black. As such, they would be allowed to intermingle only with the other black slave populations, resulting in Jefferson's descendents being black.
This was easy to trace because Jefferson was just about the only genetic Iranian around. The reason for the rule was that prior to 1776, Irish slavery was legal. To keep Miss Hemmings, Jefferson needed to redefine her as black, and created a document to do so. His figuring was that no one would be able to tell 1/8 black from white, and in fact the only descriptions of Sally Hemmings at the time identify her as Irish, which we now know.
Still, 1/4 black would be identifiably black, I think there are a fair number of stars, particularly girls, who fall her
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Just sayin, pointin out folk DO it - ain't the same as agreein with it.
And yeah, Wulf does strike me as tryin to rise above it, which encourages me to offer a hand to help lift, instead of slap him upside the head.
I mean, really - if that's your fashion of tryin to educate someone to a better way, small wonder it ain't goin so well.
I might bonk him on the head here and there myself, but you *might* try pointing it out without the flame and then having the patience to bite your tongue for a lil bit BEFORE resorting to the flames.
Try Reason First.
-F
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Hello,
I think rather than yelling at Wulf, one might observe that his statement is racist precisely because it is this kind of racist thinking that causes race to be perceived as it is.
It's instructive, and I think he meant it to be so.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Asian/black= black
Asian/white= Eurasian.
No.
Asian/white= Eurasian.
Asian= YerAsian
Asian/Black= Tiger Woods
H
"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Im not agreeing with it, but thats how its done.
You could always just say "mixed". Or American.
In Latin countries, there are different words for people of different skin shades. Since most people in these places run the gambit of really dark to really light, they have words describing their coloring. "Coffee" is a good example.
What is ALSO asinine, is trying to call somebody a ______ - American. (African-American, Chinese-American, ect) The only time you are that, is when you are in the middle of transferring your nationality.
It gets really interesting, I suppose, for people who have more than 2 races in their bloodline. Example: Your grandfather was chinese, your father is chinese/hispanic, and your mother is white... Chinese/Hispanic/White...
The whole thing is silly.
ETA: This whole thing also has its roots in the "1 drop" theory, from back in the slavery and colonization days. "If you have one drop of XYZ blood in you, then you are of that race." And yes, it was considered the "lower" blood.
Let me be clear here, Im not agreeing with it, just answering the damn question.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Just sayin, pointin out folk DO it - ain't the same as agreein with it.
And yeah, Wulf does strike me as tryin to rise above it, which encourages me to offer a hand to help lift, instead of slap him upside the head.
I mean, really - if that's your fashion of tryin to educate someone to a better way, small wonder it ain't goin so well.
I might bonk him on the head here and there myself, but you *might* try pointing it out without the flame and then having the patience to bite your tongue for a lil bit BEFORE resorting to the flames.
Try Reason First.
-F
Frem - I realized you were doing just that, pointing out the tendancy and not agreeing. I take from your posts that you are a very color blind person - it's about individual behaviour. "There's arseholes on every block."
Wulf? I mostly joke with him because it's up to him to make his own way. Lately though... some of the stuff he's posted... Seriously; guys in skull masks using "Tyranny" and "Freedom" without any substance just to justify their anger? It's pretty damn sad.
I think sometimes he just enjoys agitating for the sake of agitating. He is free to do that and I am free to criticize him for it.
Besides:
"You know the answer to raised voices, and threatening gestures?
YOUR raised voice, YOUR threatening gesture.
Someone pulls a knife on you, you pull YOUR knife.
Yeah, its ugly, its not pretty.
But you meet force with force.
"Thats the Chicago way" lol sorry...
But its still the truth."
Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com Now available on your iPhone
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Ok, and I was just trying to answer the damn question.
You asked, so I answered.
I never said I agree with it, (I don't), but giving my opinion/answer.
ETA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Also: A funny quote from the movie "Domino"
------------------------------------------------
Lateesha Rodriguez: Now, as a blactino woman, I believe we deserve our own race category to forge an identity, Jerry. That's how I feel.
Jerry Springer: Did you just say "blactino"?
Lateesha Rodriguez: Yes, I did. I'm a blactino-American.
Chinegro Woman: Wow. Uh, first of all... first of all, you don't even look latino. You look black. You're... You're black. Second of all, I'm of mixed race, and I've struggled my whole life as to whether I'm Chinese or whether I'm black.
Lateesha Rodriguez: Chinegro! What you are is chinegro!
Chinegro Woman: Chinegro?
Lateesha Rodriguez: Chinegro! There you go!
Chinegro Woman: Chinegro?
Lateesha Rodriguez: You are a chinegro!
Chinegro Woman: What the
[bleep]
Chinegro Woman: is chinegro?
Lateesha Rodriguez: That's what you are! Chinegro is you!
Chinegro Woman: That's some bulls...
[bleep]
Chinegro Woman: .
Jerry Springer: OK, as I understand it, you brought a mixed-race flow chart with you. Why don't we bring that out?
[Crowd shouting and booing]
Lateesha Rodriguez: [to a random heckler] How you doin', sugar? All right. I'm gonna call you later. Mwah. All right.
[Crowd laughs]
Lateesha Rodriguez: Take a look at this...
[she unveils the chart]
Lateesha Rodriguez: Blactino, blackasian, hispasian, OK? Now, for the Asian subcategories,
[to the Chinegro woman]
Lateesha Rodriguez: I got you, sister. We have chinegro right here. That's you. Chinegro.
Chinegro Woman: That's not a word! That's not a word!
Lateesha Rodriguez: Yes, it is, sister. We have koreagro. Japegro, OK?
[Crowd laughs]
Lateesha Rodriguez: Chispanic, koreaspanic, and last but not least, check this out, y'all... japanic.
[Crowd cheering]
Lateesha Rodriguez: That's how I flow with it!
Jerry Springer: Do you believe the government should recognise these racial subgroups?
Lateesha Rodriguez: Yes, Jerry, I do.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
So let me ask you guys... are you disagreeing with what I've said?
Or just because it was ME who said it?
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME