Help me - I'm confused by racial labels
POSTED BY: pizmobeach
UPDATED: Wednesday, August 9, 2023 16:59
VIEWED: 9570
PAGE 10 of 15
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
WULFQuote:Good question. No idea.
Why do people feel the need to label someone as an African-American, or a Chinese-American? Instead of just American?
FREMQuote:Indeed. You have a BIG double standard, Frem. I know that you have a soft spot in your heart for Wulf. That's OK, but don't pretend to be fair about it.
Then you're no doubt offended when Wulfie essentially tells Rue to siddown and shuddup, yes? Because like it or not, that's what he's been doing every time she asks the uncomfortable questions.
Not exactly what I meant, but you get the general gist of it.
I'm probably harsher on Wulf than I need to be, but sometimes the stuff he utters just takes me aback, and leaves me going, "What the FUCK?!" And it brings out the worst in me.
But what I'm really trying to get at is to get Wulf asking HIMSELF "Why do I think that way? Where did I ever accept that as truth? Why haven't I questioned this?", instead of us having to ask.
If I'm hard on him, it's because I've seen a lot of that before - some of it in myself. And the only way I ever got past it was by questioning it - and the only way I ever learned to do that was by having someone ELSE question it first, and get me thinking about it.
Mike
Old friend charity
Cruel twisted smile
And the smile signals emptiness
For me
Starless and Bible black
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"Then if you dont want freedom, you can choose to never leave your house.
Thank you, massah! May I have another!? "
What? Its true. In the same way that, if you don't like whats on t.v., you can change the channel or turn it off.
So, you don't like people saying stuff you don't agree with, you don't have to listen. You don't agree with carrying firearms, you don't have to... or you don't even have to go outside.
Otherwise, you have no right to impinge on my freedoms as guaranteed by the Constitution.
Like I said, you can always stay indoors with the shades drawn.
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My general observation:
I've seen people, when facing irrefutable facts, even people on this board NOT Wulf, spin stranger and more convoluted yarns to support their crazy notions. Of their own volition, they continued to walk further and further into insanity, no matter how many questions were posed, no matter how many observations were made, no matter how many facts were presented.
It seems to me there are powerful rewarding motivators at work that make people do this.
In time, those may be opposed by negative motivators (I can't go on like this, I'm going to lose something important to me with this) or even more powerful positive motivators (there is a much, much better way) - some kind of reason to change.
MOST people, when dealing with the negative effects of their personal history, recognize them as problems. They've gotten to the stage of negative or more powerful postive motivators. They try to solve them, mitigate them, or at least find ways to avoid them.
But to change, you have to first recognize those things as problems, you have to have motivation to change, and you have to have the resources to do it. Otherwise, it won't happen. And some people are stuck at the first step.
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Silence is consent.
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WULF-First of all, what makes you think I don't like freedom? It may not be the freedom YOU envision, but to me, it is.
Secondly:
Quote:"Freedom?" Or staying indoors with the shades drawn...? Stupid options, badly stated. A false dilemma. It's not helpful.
Like I said, you can always stay indoors with the shades drawn.
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No, you would like to curtail freedoms for EVERYONE. "Sensible" is the new propaganda catch word for this nonsense lately.
I'M saying that YOU, singular, are free to NOT participate in a world, which is enjoying the rights given by the Constitution, if that is how you wish.
I m also saying that you DON'T have the right to curtail MY freedoms for YOUR comfort.
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Quote:
Uh, Rue, remember a long thread we had going about authoritarians?
I've seen people, when facing irrefutable facts, even people on this board NOT Wulf, spin stranger and more convoluted yarns to support their crazy notions. Of their own volition, they continued to walk further and further into insanity, no matter how many questions were posed, no matter how many observations were made, no matter how many facts were presented.
________________________
Together we are greater than the sum of our parts
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WUlf- later, 'gator.
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Wow, KPO, you would be "irked" with me if I said I had a boyfriend and when you met him he was other than Caucasian, because I hadn't mentioned it?
I'm less interested in boys.
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Ah, wait, there's more to it. You said the delineation was useful because of what it would give you "a general inkling of what might be her religion, politics, values, cullinary habits etc." Yet from what Rue said, describing her as Philippino ONLY tells you what she MIGHT look like (tho' if more than a couple of generations, maybe not even that...?), but nothing about the other things. Yet you focused on the physical characteristics.
That was the obvious exception to the rule... plus I was being a little bit flippant. I think there would be more exceptions.
Quote:
I find that fascinating. How would you feel about a friend who told you they had a girlfriend in America, who told you all about their a general inkling of what might be her religion, politics, values, cullinary habits, etc., but didn't mention they were Philippino? Given Rue's example, it could be just the neighbor she's speaking of and none of those might give any indication of her race, yet when you met her in person, the first thing you'd notice (I'm assuming) would be her Philippino features. Would you still be "irked"? Just curious.
It would be weird if a 100% Phillipino person's heritage had no influence on any of these mentioned habits/values, and weird if my friend neglected to mention that Phillipino influence - irksome if he did it 'on principle'.
Quote:
Actually, dad had real olive skin which I inherited--I have to work HARD to sunburn, and tan if I look at the sun sideways. Real dark. I've sometimes been asked if I'm Hispanic. Given I can't even speak Spanish, it always made me smile. So who knows? Tho' I know my mom was a French immigrant, all I know about dad is he came from "Back East somewhere"...most likely New York. Maybe I've got something in my heritage...I'd like that.
This is pretty much what I'm talking about.
Heads should roll
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Ya'll need to have a firm look at your own actions and statements before calling double standard on me, I think.
All too many times, the guy says something debateable or potentially offensive, and just because you got personal issues, or whatever reason you have, you come down on him with a bang not so much for what he's sayin as much as cause it's HIM saying it - and when after biting his tongue through three and four of those before snarking back, do you really think imma call him up short for returning the favor, especially when I did not do so to YOU right off the top neither ?
And since y'all WANT to make an issue of it, I am perhaps not too keen on Rue's bitter little sit-down-shut-up-were-all-doomed-anyway attitude about things, I think it's counterproductive and ineffective to these discussions and wonder what issues behind it are having such an adverse affect on her personally cause despite our often bitter disagreements it strikes me as out of character for her, allright ?
There really isn't a way to handle an issue like this without offending anyone, Wulf is trying to sort though years of racial issues and intolerance, and find a way to cope - turn it around for a moment if you can and look at it from THAT end of the viewpoint - how DO you describe someone without offense, who decides what's offensive and what's not, WHY is this label "ok" and this one "racist" - questions which are not being asked as a form of race baiting, but rather as a form of "Well, ok, now what ?!" from someone who is actively TRYING to climb above their own racism and not being well understood about it cause they're not quite as articulate or confident with their own expression regarding the topic, and still struggling with internal habits which are makin it just that damn much harder when his efforts are met with misunderstanding and snark.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ReformedButRejected
Again, PATIENCE - do you think folks overcome two decades of that kinda belief in two weeks, especially when often as not most of their family and associates still believe that way and constantly try to reinforce those beliefs ?
Hell, I *still* go round and round with my niece for using the N-word cause her mother and schoolmates do, which I find *profoundly* offensive to the point where even as hostile and profane as *I* am, that word will NOT come out of my mouth under ANY circumstances whatever.
(yeah yeah, stop laughing, I gotta draw the line somewhere)
Also remember it's not my way to shove someone down a path, just shine a light on it for em, and if they stumble here and there, wait till they ASK for help before stepping into it, it's my way, and y'all should know that by now.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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"I m also saying that you DON'T have the right to curtail MY freedoms for YOUR comfort."
I don't see anyone here looking to do that.
***************************************************************
Silence is consent.
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