Help me - I'm confused by racial labels
POSTED BY: pizmobeach
UPDATED: Wednesday, August 9, 2023 16:59
VIEWED: 9570
PAGE 5 of 15
I agree, actually.
But, I would settle for people to say,
"Yeah, Im Indian, Italian, ect... but Im happy and proud to be American. Dammit, we are free. And while Im might like my kimchi, my loyalties lie with the people of my homeland, America. Lets all work together to make it as free and as strong as possible"
Yeah. Im naive.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Yes, but what culture?
Do you really think the Italians here (not all mind you, but some) who wear track suits, and 15 gold chains, have ANYTHING to do with the Italians in Italy?
Okay, let's look at it another way:
Do you really think that Southern rednecks who fly Confederate flags have ANYTHING to do with the actual Confederate States of America?
If you're interested in uniting us as "Americans" first, shouldn't you also want to do away with useless crap like that, the holdovers from a war long ago fought and lost, and the losers who still cling to the flag of a defeated, traitorous nation?
As for your "lowest blood" garbage, you don't come across as someone who doesn't believe in that, especially when you preface your remarks by saying things like "this is THE TRUTH". You only backed away from it when people called you on it, then claiming NOT to believe it, after earlier claiming that it was the TRUE answer as to why these labels get used: because people get labelled by the - in YOUR words - "lowest blood" in their ancestry.
You'll do a lot better job of convincing us that you're not a racist, a skinhead, a neo-Nazi, or a white supremacist if you'd stop quoting from their playbooks.
Just sayin'.
Oh, and please remind me again - How does it "unite" us all as Americans to say things like "Black people just can not give gifts." You weren't referencing AMERICANS when you said that, just black people. How's that helping? In a world where YOU claim that actions mean more than words, what are YOU doing to stop racism? Because your WORDS are only exacerbating it.
Mike
Old friend charity
Cruel twisted smile
And the smile signals emptiness
For me
Starless and Bible black
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Why do you emphasize this connection to a large nation of many cultures? Is it strength of numbers?
If so, what do you mean to accomplish with your strength of numbers? Intimidation of other similar patchwork nations? National defense/war?
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The "lowest blood" stuff was NOT my idea.
Thats just how its done, and I've said many times (now 5+ and counting)that I dont agree with it.
I was just answering a question.
And as for the rest, its called humor.
"You'll do a lot better job of convincing us that you're not a racist, a skinhead, a neo-Nazi, or a white supremacist if you'd stop quoting from their playbooks."
Lol Wow. A question was asked, and I answered. But thats playing from the neo-facist race book? Cause I called out the truth of things? Cause it doesnt sit to well with your pre-defined ideas of truth? I never claimed to be PC, and I never WILL be PC (PC being first used by the Nazis)
Jeeze....
Well, how about this then? Gun control is racist, in that it was originally designed to keep blacks from getting guns after the Civil War.
And it was drafted by Northerners.
Now, a show of hands...
Who here thinks Im a "skinhead, a neo-Nazi, or a white supremacist"...
Im actually curious.
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"Why do you emphasize this connection to a large nation of many cultures? Is it strength of numbers?
If so, what do you mean to accomplish with your strength of numbers? Intimidation of other similar patchwork nations? National defense/war?"
Because right now, there are hundreds, if not thousands of little mini-camps fighting each other.
And nothing gets better.
I've finally realized what some here have been saying. If we really want things to change for the better, we all have to pull TOGETHER.
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Wulf
1. No, it's not because you said it, people have a lot of patience with you because...
2. Frem is right. You're trying. Sometimes you're trying in the other sense ;)
3. My illustration of genetics is the real world dominance of "physicial" phenotypes. This *does* effect the way we perceive people. We judge people by their physical phenotype and classify them. There was an interesting article in this week's Newsweek suggesting that this is instinctive and not cultural.
4. If there are more copies of phenotypical genes then they will dominate.
5. Also, populations with larger genetic diversity are easier to tell apart (it's easier to tell one frenchmen from another than one serb from another, because there's a more diverse genepool) <-- this *also* effects the way we see people.
6. Africa has a more diverse gene pool than anywhere, but African-Americans overwhelmingly come from a much smaller portion of africa than European americans do from europe, this *also* effects the way we see people.
7. We learn our differentiations socially by the characteristics that we see around us. If there's a wide variation in hair and eye color, then we include that. I have friends who have identical twins that very only in nose and chin shape, subtle face curves. As a result, the non-twin sibs identify people primarily by subtle face curves.
8. In essence what I'm saying is there are real physical differences that we use to classify people, which is a mix of instinct and social.
Wulf,
9. Cultural diversity adds a lot to our country, just as it does to Europe: Many ways of doing things result in many divergent thought processes which lead to many different types of solutions to problems. We are better off for it.
10. The converse is not true: a so called multicultural melting pot would again become "one way of doing things" it would just be different from the previous way, but probably give no added benefit to a society.
Byte
1. Kwanza is a totally artificial creation of African Americans, but then again, so is Rap Music. This is African American culture, and has nothing to do with Africa, but is just as valid as any other constructed culture, like Israel, which I consider completely valid. You don't need a 5,000 year history to have a culture. Scientology is a valid religion, everything starts somewhere.
2. Voodoo is an actual african tradition, and dates back at least 5,000 years in West Africa. I find it very useful personally because I do a lot of research into herbal medicines, and Voodoo has saved my life, and could save thousands of others. I fully intend to become a voodoo witch doctor, I think this is a perfectly respectable occupation. This is not really comparable to Kwanza, because it's more than a cultural ritual, it's an actual science.
Everyone,
America should abandon uniform conformity. We are much better off with mexicans and chinese and africans, african americans, jews, catholics, the amish, etc. Variety is the spice of life.
To reiterate:
Many ways of doing things result in many divergent thought processes which lead to many different types of solutions to problems. We are better off for it.
We also benefit from cultural diversity itself. I like an indian restaurant. I like indian culture. I like having it here. I don't want McSomosa and Tandoori grilled mcChicken sandwich from a corner counter at walmart. I want to go to an indian restaurant, full on. I enjoy the food, and the experience.
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Sorry, but I tho' I hate to, I agree with Wulf. I think it IS more the fact that he brought it up than that it's not true or is bullshit. I don't like the "lowest blood" remark, but that IS how it's perceived in America...the "other", the "stranger", whatever you want to call it, he's right. That may make it wrong, but that doesn't make it not exist.
You can be second or third generation of most of those things, and if your features aren't too representative of your "non-Caucasian" heritage, you can get called "White"--but if they show, some people will ask "where are you from" or "where are your parents from", and among (conscious or unconscious) true racists, that is what they'll see and make judgments on. That's just fact, and I don't see anything wrong with Wulf voicing it. Doesn't mean he BELIEVES it, it's just what he observes, and he's right.
I see further down both he and others said the same thing--I always come in late!
Lots of interesting questions here. I was going to mention that the attitude comes from decades ago, with Mulato and stuff, and that it's true in most societies, but I see that's been covered too. I know when Obama was campaigining, a lot of African Americans said he wasn't Black ENOUGH, and called him "Oreo" (black on the outside, white inside).
I think it's sad we still think this way, and hopefully someday we won't as much...as people's ethnicity gets diluted further and further by intermarriage, hopefully it'll be less so. But as to keeping a non-American heritage, I think it has its pros and cons. Here in CA, the keeping to heritage of Hispanics hinders their melding into the society, but at the same time, if people want to recognize/respect their heritage, I certainly have no right to argue with it. It can go too far, like the maintenance of Sharia law and so forth; I wish there were a middle ground between melding with the culture and maintaining one's heritage.
My mom was a French immigrant, but I don't identify at ALL with French culture. Interestingly, I DO have some genetic things in common with them, which surprised me as my mom was the only French person I knew and didn't pass on anything, but I have observed some things in me which were never taught (consciously or unconsciously, mom was a baby when she came over, and her mother was big on being a "true American").
The fact is, at this point in time people will be viewed as representative of their features; here in America, that means anything but "generic white" will be seen as something else. My friend Choey mentioned the same thing about the absurdity of Obama being considered "Black" when he's only half Black...it's just the way it is.
Personally, I think there's nothing wrong with color-blindness; if someone wants to bring up their heritage, I find it interesting, but it's not how I perceive them.
I disagree, however, that the racism is equal in both right and left wingers. The left may have difficulty dealing with it "correctly" but at least they TRY, while most of the strongly right-wing people are quite open about recognizing race, and often about putting it down (obviously or more subtly). The left hasn't got it perfect, yet, and there certainly are subconscious racist things going on, but on the WHOLE, the left makes more of an effort not to be negative about race.
AND, it's different in different areas. It's true that none of us are truly "American", because that delineation is different in different parts of the country. My brother-in-law and husband came from Idaho; out there it's Native Americans; the racism Curt had was very obvious. It shocked me, as here in CA we revere (in thought at least!) our Native Americans. In Florida, I imagine there's more prejudice against Cuban, etc., and here in CA, it's more against Hispanics, and more recently, Muslims as we have a large Muslim population.
There's a question for you: what is the racism where YOU live? What culture is it most obviously reflected by? I'll be the answers reflect as man
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America should abandon uniform conformity. We are much better off with mexicans and chinese and africans, african americans, jews, catholics, the amish, etc. Variety is the spice of life.
Of course, but identifying your national heritage as American should be a source of pride.
Im tired of people thinking that America is this all you can eat buffet, where you come in load up and then bounce out. Or as a train way-station.
And btw, if its some much better in the old-country, whyd you come here?
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Wulf
I think you went past a very important question: do you identify with ALL 'Americans' ?
Because if you don't, then you are asking people to do something which you yourself won't do.
***************************************************************
Silence is consent.
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Well, simple.
E Pluribus Unum.
Out of many... One.
The folk on my block come from different heritages and cultures, but they're my block - which is perhaps not the same as actively choosing them, but I do tolerate them well enough.
And then there is the community of site three, which is my chosen people, my "Tribe" or Nakama, just as I am their chosen knight errant to watch over them while they sleep.
Far as color is concerned, I'm still a big fan of the Bulworth theory, everyone get busy with someone till we're all the same shade!
Family of Choice
http://www.udel.edu/PR/Messenger/97/2/family.html
Nakama
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Nakama
Quote:
Simon: Captain, why did you come back for us?
Mal: You're on my crew.
Simon: Yeah, but you don't even like me. Why'd you come back?
Mal: You're on my crew. Why are we still talking about this?
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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