The Root of all Evil : The God Delusion
POSTED BY: Calhoun
UPDATED: Thursday, December 17, 2015 06:12
VIEWED: 49488
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The subject title is the title of an excellent documentary I recently watched on TV made by a professor of Oxford university. It is available in torrent form with a little looking.
Anyone else see this? Opinions?
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I’ve not read his book or seen the documentary. I’m aware of what it is about, but I don’t know what particular theory Dawkins takes on the issue.
I will say this on the general idea, as I understand it. Some people within secularist circles have long held the theory that religion is the cause of much or most violence in the world. This is, I think, a misguided assertion. Blaming religion is simply a convenient witch to burn for secularists. In reality, the whole idea makes no sense. If religion was really the cause of violence, it is almost hard to imagine that any of us are alive today or could function in society at all, given the prevalence of religion in our culture. Yet the vast majority of religious individuals are not only not violence but good and decent people. And many very religious communities, such as the Amish, live in far greater peace then modern secular society. Furthermore, it ignores the violence perpetrated in the name of atheistic philosophies, such as Communism and Fascism, which far exceeds the violence perpetrated in the name of religion. Once again I would point out that I’m not familiar with Dawkins’s particular theories on this matter, but as per the general idea, I think it’s ludicrous.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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As buffy 'versed as it may sound. It comes down to...it's all about power, and nothing more.
-River
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
I’ve not read his book or seen the documentary. I’m aware of what it is about, but I don’t know what particular theory Dawkins takes on the issue.
I will say this on the general idea, as I understand it. Some people within secularist circles have long held the theory that religion is the cause of much or most violence in the world. This is, I think, a misguided assertion. Blaming religion is simply a convenient witch to burn for secularists. In reality, the whole idea makes no sense. If religion was really the cause of violence, it is almost hard to imagine that any of us are alive today or could function in society at all, given the prevalence of religion in our culture. Yet the vast majority of religious individuals are not only not violence but good and decent people. And many very religious communities, such as the Amish, live in far greater peace then modern secular society. Furthermore, it ignores the violence perpetrated in the name of atheistic philosophies, such as Communism and Fascism, which far exceeds the violence perpetrated in the name of religion. Once again I would point out that I’m not familiar with Dawkins’s particular theories on this matter, but as per the general idea, I think it’s ludicrous.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
Ludicrous? Really? It's been said before but I'll say it again....more people have died in the name of god than any other. Hundreds of millions have been the victims of religious persecution. The reason why we're still around is because we keep repopulating and because there are, thankfully, many rational people around. Religious extremists are really the problem. Not only do they believe whole-heartedly that what they preach is the only right way, some of them also wield enormous power. Unfortunately, they tend to give most religious people a bad name. To say that the violence perpetrated by atheists outweighs the violence perpetrated by people of faith is completely false and, well, fairly ridiculous. Atheists make up the vast minority of most cultures.
"Give me religion and a lobotomy."
Beulah Land-Tori Amos
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I have to agree with River; the violence is about power. Religion can be used by the power hungery to get folks to do things they might not otherwise. That does not prove religion is wrong, per se. It proves that folks will take routes to power, then use the tools available to them.
To some extent this is difference between religion and -organized- religion. It is the organization of religion which makes it vulnerable to being abused. On the other hand, it is natural for folks who follow a similar mindset to organize. So, chicken egg puzzle anyone?
I should add I'm a firm believer in the seperation of church and state; it's bad enough for folks to be able to seize power on one side, they shouldn't get the other side "for free."
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"Sadistic crap legitimized by florid prose. Tell me you're not a fan."
--Simon to Book, War Stories
Love that!
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Quote:
Originally posted by meg1448:
Ludicrous? Really? It's been said before but I'll say it again....more people have died in the name of god than any other. Hundreds of millions have been the victims of religious persecution. The reason why we're still around is because we keep repopulating and because there are, thankfully, many rational people around. Religious extremists are really the problem. Not only do they believe whole-heartedly that what they preach is the only right way, some of them also wield enormous power. Unfortunately, they tend to give most religious people a bad name. To say that the violence perpetrated by atheists outweighs the violence perpetrated by people of faith is completely false and, well, fairly ridiculous. Atheists make up the vast minority of most cultures.
But three of the most vicious dictators of the 20ths century--Hitler, Stalin, and Pol Pot--slaughtered millions, and not in the name of religion. Hitler even based his genocide on pseudo-scientific eugenics theories. So religion doesn't have a monopoly on violence.
I think the previous posters are right: humans want power and they'll use whatever means they have at their disposal, including religion. Doesn't make religion bad as such, it just means that religion (like nationalism or science) can be twisted into a rationale for violence.
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- Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets
- Captain, FFF.net Grammar Police
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*sigh*
Is every topic relating to Christianity on this site going to be a bating tactic for a fight?
I must say- If you guys don't believe in God or Christ why keep talking about it?
Scorpion:
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Because it's an interesting subject? Besides, if you think there've been fights in these last few religion threads, you should check our RWED sometime. We're positively tame by comparison. And I hope you weren't accusing me of baiting anybody for a fight. The person I responded to asserted that religion is the primary source of violence. I merely pointed out three instances of massive violence that were not undertaken in the name of religion. That's hardly baiting anyone for a fight.
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- Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets
- Captain, FFF.net Grammar Police
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Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
Because it's an interesting subject? Besides, if you think there've been fights in these last few religion threads, you should check our RWED sometime. We're positively tame by comparison. And I hope you weren't accusing me of baiting anybody for a fight. The person I responded to asserted that religion is the primary source of violence. I merely pointed out three instances of massive violence that were not undertaken in the name of religion. That's hardly baiting anyone for a fight.
I meant the title of this topic.. God Delusion?
Also the tone you just took when i mentioned the possible baiting- hostile? Why?
I agree that Religion is used to do lots of terrible things and the examples in your post against that were great. I agree with your post,my post wasn't in repsonse to your post it was responding to the original poster.
But as a practising Christian i sense a general hostility toward me and mine. And thats not kosher.All religions have thier bad eggs. Don't call me delusional just because i choose to believe in something that you don't.
Not all religious people are bad. Not all non religious people are good.
Scorpion:
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