The Root of all Evil : The God Delusion
POSTED BY: Calhoun
UPDATED: Thursday, December 17, 2015 06:12
VIEWED: 49488
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The title of this thread was not invented by the author of the thread. The author of this thread should have posted a link or cited some source. It is the name of a documentary, which seeks (to my understanding) to justify in some way the position that religion is root of all evil. It seems to have become somewhat of a fad these days to make documentaries that are unnecessarily or inappropriately critical of religion, and in my opinion is indicative of a very religious intolerant attitude sweeping through our culture right now.
I’m sure both Causal and I share your frustration in this matter. Causal is not a poster who has ever demonstrated a desire to generalize or ridicule people for their religion or anything else really and typically has some very well thought out and informed posts that are worth reading and taking seriously.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:
Originally posted by meg1448:
Ludicrous? Really? It's been said before but I'll say it again....more people have died in the name of god than any other. Hundreds of millions have been the victims of religious persecution. The reason why we're still around is because we keep repopulating and because there are, thankfully, many rational people around. Religious extremists are really the problem. Not only do they believe whole-heartedly that what they preach is the only right way, some of them also wield enormous power. Unfortunately, they tend to give most religious people a bad name. To say that the violence perpetrated by atheists outweighs the violence perpetrated by people of faith is completely false and, well, fairly ridiculous. Atheists make up the vast minority of most cultures.
I'd like to see your sources on the "hundreds of millions" statistic.
I'd also like to see your sources on the notion that atheists are in the majority. Most cultural studies I've seen assert just the opposite. For instance, the CIA World Factbook ( https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/index.html) lists the percentage of Americans claiming no religion at all as 10%. And according to a 2002 Pew Research Poll ( http://www.adherents.com/rel_USA.html), only 1% of respondents claimed to be atheists! Hardly the majority you claim.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tinadoll:
I meant the title of this topic.. God Delusion?
The God Delusion is the title of a book by Oxford biologist Richard Dawkins. Dawkins' central assertion is that religion is a destructive force in the world that ought to be rooted out (he has, I believe, suggested, among other things that religious educators should be removed from the classroom and that the state ought to remove children from religious homes).
http://www.amazon.com/God-Delusion-Richard-Dawkins/dp/0618680004/ref=p
d_bbs_sr_1/103-7753046-6183800?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1179929644&sr=8-1
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Also the tone you just took when i mentioned the possible baiting- hostile? Why?
With all due respect, I think you may be slightly oversensitive. There is no "tone" in white words on a black background--there is only the text and what the text says. "Tone" comes from interpretation. I wasn't being hostile at all, just trying to answer the question of why we would want to discuss this topic.
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But as a practising Christian i sense a general hostility toward me and mine. And thats not kosher.All religions have thier bad eggs.
Well, as a practicing Christian myself, I have to agree that I have, at various times, felt the same sort of hostility you describe. But again, with reference to tone, I can't be sure how much is me being overly sensitive and how much is genuine antipathy. But then again, when you hear someone say they'd enjoy watching Christians being burned at the stake (which was said on these boards, if you can believe it), it's pretty clear that there's some hostility.
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Don't call me delusional just because i choose to believe in something that you don't.
I'm not calling you delusional, and I don't think that anyone else here is. That's just the title of the documentary that Calhoun saw.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
The title of this thread was not invented by the author of the thread. The author of this thread should have posted a link or cited some source. It is the name of a documentary, which seeks (to my understanding) to justify in some way the position that religion is root of all evil. It seems to have become somewhat of a fad these days to make documentaries that are unnecessarily or inappropriately critical of religion, and in my opinion is indicative of a very religious intolerant attitude sweeping through out culture right now.
I’m sure both Causal and I share your frustration in this matter. Causal is not a poster who has ever demonstrated a desire to generalize or ridicule people for their religion or anything else really and typically has some very well thought out and informed posts that are worth reading and taking seriously.
Its rather unsettling to think that a nation of free people,with free thinkers who choose to practice whatever religion they want would support a movement like this is just perhaps preposturous. But then again- i have seen bigotry and closemindedness in the name of religion.
And that last thought- I am not here to bash anyone and this is only the second "religion" thread i have been a part of-so i'll take your word for it.
Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:Quote:
Originally posted by Tinadoll:Quote:
... I meant the title of this topic.. God Delusion?
The God Delusion is the title of a book by Oxford biologist Richard Dawkins. Dawkins' central assertion is that religion is a destructive force in the world that ought to be rooted out (he has, I believe, suggested, among other things that religious educators should be removed from the classroom and that the state ought to remove children from religious homes).
http://www.amazon.com/God-Delusion-Richard-Dawkins/dp/0618680004/ref=p
d_bbs_sr_1/103-7753046-6183800?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1179929644&sr=8-1
I saw that. I have no interest in reading it.Sounds like hostility in the highest form
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Also the tone you just took when i mentioned the possible baiting- hostile? Why?
With all due respect, I think you may be slightly oversensitive. There is no "tone" in white words on a black background--there is only the text and what the text says. "Tone" comes from interpretation. I wasn't being hostile at all, just trying to answer the question of why we would want to discuss this topic. I could well level the accusation of hostility at you given the fight-baiting remark that you made, but I didn't want to do that--that's why I made the comments that I did.
I,of course, was not refering to you as i said before- but to the original post.You can sense a tone from reading anything-and it would be different to anyone. I still have bad feelings from the last "religion" thread i was in.
It was said:
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asking questions like this and saying only devout believers should answer is going to get you a scewed opinion
makes me wanna GRRR ARRR
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...Quote:
But as a practising Christian i sense a general hostility toward me and mine. And thats not kosher.All religions have thier bad eggs.
Well, as a practicing Christian myself, I have to agree that I have, at various times, felt the same sort of hostility you describe. But again, with reference to tone, I can't be sure how much is me being overly sensitive and how much is genuine antipathy. But then again, when you hear someone say they'd enjoy watching Christians being burned at the stake (which was said on these boards, if you can believe it), it's pretty clear that there's some hostility.
I have seen its pretty much one sided too. People are just looking for an agrument
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...Quote:
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Don't call me delusional just because i choose to believe in something that you don't.
I'm not calling you delusional, and I don't think that anyone else here is. That'NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I propose the admins move this thread to RWED. How can we discuss this topic meaningfully if we aren't allowed to throw personal abuse at each other!? 
Seriously though, I'm an atheist and for the most part I like Dawkins, but I agree with everything Finn and Causal have said in this thread so far. While it's good that people like Dawkins are making people ask questions about the role of religion in general and their personal faith in particular, something that many of them may not have done before, he does take it a bit too far sometimes. Saying that religion is the root of all evil is just silly.
Questions are a burden to others. Answers are prison for oneself.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:
I propose the admins move this thread to RWED. How can we discuss this topic meaningfully if we aren't allowed to throw personal abuse at each other!?
Yeah! I hardly know what to do with myself without the vitriol and ad hominems that I've become so accustomed to.
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Seriously though, I'm an atheist and for the most part I like Dawkins, but I agree with everything Finn and Causal have said in this thread so far. While it's good that people like Dawkins are making people ask questions about the role of religion in general and their personal faith in particular, something that many of them may not have done before, he does take it a bit too far sometimes. Saying that religion is the root of all evil is just silly.
You should check out Marilynne Robinson's review of The God Delusion in the December 2006 Harper's (available here: http://darwiniana.com/2006/10/23/marilynne-robinson-on-dawkins/). It's a long read, but quite good. She takes him to task on any number of issues.
I agree that raising questions and prompting thinking and discussion is a good thing--I've been really stimulated by many of the discussions we've had on the boards lately (and I for one hope we continue to do these in General Discussions, as they seem slightly more civil).
I'd be curious to know, Khyron, what you make of the recent spate of books by folks like Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins, and Christopher Hitchens. I don't mind going toe-to-toe (intellectually) with atheists over issues concerning the philosophy of religion, because at the end of the day I find that most atheists have thought out their position well and are able to argue it coherently. In addition, many atheists have enough respect for argumentation that even if they disagree with the theistic perspective, they can at least respect that good, solid arguments can be advanced for theistic positions. So while atheists and I may not agree on the question of the existence of a deity, we can, at least, shake hands at the end of an argument and order a round of beers. Not so Dawkins and his crew. They seem to be arguing that religious belief is not only factually incorrect, but dangerous, and that religion should not be afforded tolerance from "progressive" cultures (which I find curious, because one of Dawkins' main criticisms of religion is its intolerance). As an atheist, what do you make of Dawkins and his fellows?
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Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:Quote:
Originally posted by meg1448:
Atheists make up the vast minority of most cultures.
I'd also like to see your sources on the notion that atheists are in the majority.
And I'd like to gently point out that minority was the word used.
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Aw, crap! Thanks for the catch, FM! That makes the post make more sense.
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Y/W
*bows respectfully*
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Quote:
Originally posted by FollowMal:
And I'd like to gently point out that minority was the word used.
I've no clue as to the statistical representation of minorities relative to disbelief in some God or other. Count me amongst that minority, with the common caveat that I hold no disrespect toward those who are certain that there is God, and that God has a plan that mayhaps only incidentally involves all of us.
I've met a lot of people who were leading troubled lives, running the gamut of childhood abuses to mere lack of self-confidence, yet have changed their approaches to living this life. I think it's reasonable to assume that we all have met and/or have been such people. A lot of people who have, um, re-invented themselves, or improved themselves via religious belief. In most cases, and I think this is largely due to where I live (Western Hemishpere, northwards), it is through the acceptance of "God" through Jesus Christ as their saviour, ergo Christianity. A minority of others have saved themselves from eternal hoplessness via Buddha and the sublime acceptance of reincarnation inherent with that. And a very few of my friends and acquaintances have found workable redemptions via pagan and Wiccan methodologies, and I luvs those nutters too.
In the end, all I can say for myself is that I, too, have experienced horrific troubles, just like anyone else has, and come through them to become a rather happy person, without the knowing assistance of a higher power such as God. Faith in my ownself, eh?My opinion is that if God is a delusion, then that's alright by me, so long as it (It?), the concept, works as a tool to help people to improve their circumstances. Sorta in the same way that Newtonian physics is provably wrong at quantum levels, but works well enough as a tool to build modern conveniences and spaceships.
I don't believe in God, which, if I'm wrong, makes me delusional, eh? And how ironic would that be? Neither do I believe that religions are inherently resposible for all of humankind's ills, beyond the fact that religions have been used as tools for motivitaing large numbers of people toward accepting warfare (as a for instance), or dulling them to the realities of greedy behaviour by a select powerful few (Marx's opiate of the masses, as it were). I do, however, believe in myself, and that's a gorram good start.
Which begs the question: why am I drawn to these religiosity threads, eh? Am I looking for some form of salvation? Answer: beats the hell oughta me!
***
I luvs y'all. I really do, else I wouldn't bother with these naive posts o' mine. Serenifly has served it's purpose, even if there's never another tv episode or motion picture release. Thanks, Joss.
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