The Root of all Evil : The God Delusion

POSTED BY: Calhoun
UPDATED: Thursday, December 17, 2015 06:12
VIEWED: 49488
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BIBLEFIXER

Friday, May 25, 2007 9:41 AM

Why don't we ask them? Compile a survey of their inner personal motivations? Oh yea, because…

Just keep walking preacher man!

6IXSTRINGJACK

Friday, May 25, 2007 10:06 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by meg1448:
To say that the violence perpetrated by atheists outweighs the violence perpetrated by people of faith is completely false and, well, fairly ridiculous. Atheists make up the vast minority of most cultures.

I can't say you're outright wrong here, but I have to give this one to Finn. I don't think that Athiests are as much of a minority as you think anyways. I keep hearing that USA is one of the most religious societies, but I don't see it. At least not in my generation anyhow. I don't know a single person that is under 30 that even goes to church. I know there are people under 30 who do, but I don't know any personally that have gone after their parents stopped making them go, if they ever went in the first place, and the more people I meet in life, the more I believe this to be true. Religion is dying in America. America is so secular and materialistic and greedy now it's revolting. It's a gimmie gimmie culture and nobody gives a shit about anybody but themselves. I don't see any religion here, in fact, I don't even see it in the churches. Sadly, the most religious places in this country may very well be the Mosques.

All of this is besides the main point here because you even admitted yourself that people who wanted power used religion to get stupid and/or poor and/or weak people do do their bidding. These people often thought what they were doing was for god, but they were merely puppets on a string. Finn's point anyhow was that many, many people have died for secular causes, which is undeniable truth, and though it is also true that many, many people have also died in the name of "god", just because you throw out huge numbers of people who have died because of religion doesn't make those numbers true, and doesn't even come close to deep analysis required of all of the many different battles mankind has endured to determine just how much of those were based on religion and how many were purely secular based. Please site some reliable sources other than Dawkins biased bile, or something that you heard that you want to believe because you blame religion for the worlds problems and it fits what you want. Dawkins, in my opinion,is disgusting human being and just cashing in on Neo-Atheism.

For the record, I'm Agnostic, I'm under 30 and I haven't been to church since my Mom made me go, probably 15 years ago when she slapped me for saying "Yummy!" and smiling real big when I ate the host. I'd also like to add that I think Atheists are a stupid and bullheaded people. You don't need to believe.... hell, I'll probably die having never believed... but you should never close your mind to the possibility. Sometimes I hope there is a god that makes them burn for a couple of weeks post mortem just for their idiocy and close mindedness. And yes.... I can say that without being a hypocrite for judging, because the one thing I have in common with any idiot Athiest is that I'm not a practicing Christian, and until such time that I am, should I ever choose to be, I'm not beholden to their rules either.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

CAUSAL

Friday, May 25, 2007 12:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Calhoun:
Quote:
Roland19 wrote:
Thursday, May 24, 2007 19:40

And I have to agree with DeepGirl187, it's people that are to blame, not religion.

I wonder exactly how many suicide bombers are atheists?

Well, Stalin certainly didn't have religious motivation for slaughtering all those people. He just wanted to solidify his power base. How do you account for that?

Also, interestingly enough, the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam, a nationalist group in Sri Lanka, has carried out more suicide bombings than any other organization on Earth, and their beef isn't religious, it's political.

________________________________________________________________________

- Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets
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CALHOUN

Friday, May 25, 2007 1:03 PM

Quote:
Causal wrote:
Friday, May 25, 2007 02:08
Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Calhoun:

Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roland19 wrote:
Thursday, May 24, 2007 19:40

And I have to agree with DeepGirl187, it's people that are to blame, not religion.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I wonder exactly how many suicide bombers are atheists?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, Stalin certainly didn't have religious motivation for slaughtering all those people. He just wanted to solidify his power base. How do you account for that?

You just keep answer questions with questions..

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Friday, May 25, 2007 1:30 PM

Consider this: compare the Inquisitions with the Jewish Question. Both of them were examples of bigotry against Jews (among others) at is most despicable level, and both sought to eliminate Jewry from the population. But the Inquisitions wanted to convert the Jews to Christians, and they often used murder and torture to extort that goal, but while their goals may have included the elimination of Jewish belief among the population, it never included the elimination of people simply for being Jews. That far, far more callous and hatful goal would come from the Nazis, who were not motivated by religion, and who were far more successful and calculated then any of the Inquisitions. It is not difficult to see that the absence of religion allowed the Nazis to view traditional anti-Semitism in a much more cold and deliberate manner, in much the way, the absence of religion allows scientists to view nature in a dispassionate manner, as opposed to an emotional one.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

KANEMAN

Friday, May 25, 2007 2:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by leadb:
I don't have anything to add to my previous comment.

However, regarding the 45% of folk think the world is less than 10,000 years old "issue", you might find this of use:
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/061110.html

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The other choices are as ridiculous as the first choice..

# "Human beings have developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life, but God guided this process." We'll call this the theistic view.

# "Human beings have developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life, but God had no part in this process." I'll term this the naturalist view.

I don't know about the other Americans on this board, but this American equates 'human' with 'Homo sapiens', and was taught in school that we popped up about 250,000 years ago......I wouldn't have been able to answer this question, frankly I would have laughed at the baboon who asked it........Well, I'm correct...I think.......

CAUSAL

Friday, May 25, 2007 4:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Calhoun:
You just keep answer questions with questions..

And you just keep dodging mine, so don't go trying to claim the moral high ground.

But since you said something about it: I have no idea how many suicide bombers are atheists. But then again, I suspect you don't either. You're merely assuming that all suicide bombings are religiously motivated, in spite of the fact that I gave information about suicide bombers (the LTTE) who aren't.

________________________________________________________________________

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- Captain, FFF.net Grammar Police

FREDGIBLET

Friday, May 25, 2007 5:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
that science would stop trying to answer religous/philosophical questions (like, "What--if any--are the moral implications of abortion").

This is a new one on me. I was aware that there is a movement forming to try and come up with a science based code of ethics but I wasn't aware that they were answering specifics like that.

FREDGIBLET

Friday, May 25, 2007 5:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Finn's point anyhow was that many, many people have died for secular causes, which is undeniable truth

Right...but those causes weren't driven by atheism. Most of the people Stalin killed were killed because of political reasons so the fact that Stalin was an atheist doesn't matter. In the meantime there has been a large number of people who have been killed specifically because of their religious beliefs.

This is like saying that anyone killed by a religious leader was killed for religious purposes which is patently false, just like the assertion that everyone killed by a culture steeped in atheism was killed because of atheism. The contention that many of us here have is that more people have died because of religiously motivated conflict then because of atheisticly motivated conflict. I would think this would be not only obvious but quite logical as atheism (at least in m experience) arouses more zeal in the theist them the atheist.

Quote:
and doesn't even come close to deep analysis required of all of the many different battles mankind has endured to determine just how much of those were based on religion and how many were purely secular based.

As I just said, conflicts that are not religious are not inherently atheistic, unless it can be demonstrated that atheism is a specific cause then the conflict is non-theistic, not atheistic.

Quote:
I'd also like to add that I think Atheists are a stupid and bullheaded people. You don't need to believe.... hell, I'll probably die having never believed... but you should never close your mind to the possibility.

I know very few atheists who wouldn't admit the possibility, but we just don't think it's true.

CITIZEN

Friday, May 25, 2007 6:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
What if they don't? I'll say this much: if you look at the history of life on earth, it's been increasing in complexity and diversity. But I don't have to then say, "So therefore there's no God." What if I think random chance is totally implausible?

Evolution doesn't preclude God, but Intelligent design Includes God. God is inherently unscientific as existance of God can neither be proven nor disproven, thus Intelligent Design is not Science, and therefore not an alternative to evolution.

The other point is that there is not a lot of 'random chance' in Evolution. Certainly no more than there is in any natural system, from Radioactivity, to whether or not the intrepid explorer gets away from the Lion alive. Evolution is an explination for speciation, not where life comes from.

There are theories for where life came from, some more credible than others. Some have fantastic possibilities. Life is, at it's basic level, just a complex chemical reaction. Since chemical reactions happen naturally all the time, one theory is that, where you have the ingrediants for life, coupled with the enviroment for life, life is certain to start, in the same way that pouring acid on your table is certain to leave a hole.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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