Guess the October Surprise -
POSTED BY: Righteous9
UPDATED: Sunday, November 12, 2006 15:16
VIEWED: 11708
PAGE 1 of 2
What will Rove and the GOP roll out just a couple weeks before election day? Figured I'd steal some of their lightles thunder before we hear about whatever 'revelation' it is in the context of some distorted reality rather than political timeliness, and manipulation.
Come up with your own, but here are a few that I think could happen...
Terrorist attack! - don't know how this would play after all the rhetoric about how we haven't been hit since 9/11, but fear is always a seller.
Major terrorist attack thwarted - not playing so well any more...they'd need something big here, like actually finding a person who was in possession of a dirty bomb.
Bin Laden Killed - I expect this one.
or my personal favorite, because I thought of it -- Weapons of Mass destruction found in Iraq after all...these long years. I would never put such machinations past this administration, but I don't know whether it would be too risky to attempt to stage. If such a find was bought by the American people though, it would appear to vindicate this administration. I'm not sure whether the American people will buy anything Bush is selling ever again, but liberals would hear forever from talking heads, how they owe this administration an apology for accusing it of either lying, or grave incompetence.
Any others?
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Well, I was going to go with bin Laden dead. I really think they floated it to see what effect it would have - it was a trial announcement. They will then 'confirm' it later on.
You know what I find weird? In the last two elections cycles Democrats lead 3 - 5% in the polls. Then they lost by that amount in key states - leading people to tell election officials "you got some 'splainin' to do". Now you don't heard news about ANY polls. No polls - no strange discrepancies - no awkward questions after the elections. Problem solved.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
How about an assasination attempt on Bush?
He gets shot in the head but the bullet misses his brain by three feet.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Ruse,
What is the average margin of error in most polls? When they tell you it's a poll of "likely voters" they are lying. They just try to get some wind under the sails of a failed party. They are always trying to stack the results against the GOP...never works.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Yeah, the polls are being downplayed. You can find them though. They were looking great for dems, but the closer we get to the election the closer the numbers get within the margin of error -- go figure. Harder to steal an election that is nowhere close in the polls I guess.
The assasination thing is also scary. It would be a horrible thing for this county if he were assasinated or shot at. The whole grenade thing didn't seem to help him much though - but as a martyr? I thought of this before I heard about the movie. The powers that be have basically gotten all the use out of him they could. He's damaged goods now. He'd be much more useful to them dead, you'd think. Good thing for him for his dad I guess.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I think you can fairly well guarantee we'll have an increase in terror alerts, as Republicans try desperately to steer the public's attention away from their biggest failure: the Iraq War. If they're able to round up a few suspected terrorists, even better.
Also, count on religion to be played up, so they can divide the country on social issues. Already there's talk of reintroducing the constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage (I believe this will make the third time). They know there's still not enough votes, but why not cater to certain people's prejudices and hatred of homosexuals. That's always a good tactic for driving right-wing Christians to the polls.
And of course they'll attempt to portray Democrats as weak on defense ( i.e. the War on Terror). This is, of course, aside from the fact that the Democrats have nine Iraq War veterans running for seats in this election, one of whom is a retired Navy admiral.
My point is it'll be more of the same tired, old stuff they drag out every election. The really sad part is the number of Americans who'll buy into it.
Buy the ticket. Take the ride.
-Hunter S. Thompson
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Hey canker sore - you didn't read the statistical analyses I guess. Probably beyond you anyway.
Quote:
What is the average margin of error in most polls?
"I gave him the book but he just chews on the covers."
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by Righteous9:
What will Rove and the GOP roll out just a couple weeks before election day? Figured I'd steal some of their lightles thunder before we hear about whatever 'revelation' it is in the context of some distorted reality rather than political timeliness, and manipulation.
Come up with your own, but here are a few that I think could happen...
Terrorist attack! - don't know how this would play after all the rhetoric about how we haven't been hit since 9/11, but fear is always a seller.
Major terrorist attack thwarted - not playing so well any more...they'd need something big here, like actually finding a person who was in possession of a dirty bomb.
Bin Laden Killed - I expect this one.
or my personal favorite, because I thought of it -- Weapons of Mass destruction found in Iraq after all...these long years. I would never put such machinations past this administration, but I don't know whether it would be too risky to attempt to stage. If such a find was bought by the American people though, it would appear to vindicate this administration. I'm not sure whether the American people will buy anything Bush is selling ever again, but liberals would hear forever from talking heads, how they owe this administration an apology for accusing it of either lying, or grave incompetence.
Any others?
I guess you forgot to watch the news this year. Lets see...Bin Ladden dead, check. Thanks France for leaking that one. Hmm...Terrorist attack thwarted, you missed the whole 'plot to blow up the airliners' from August or the attempted car bombing of the US embassy in Syria, check. Terrorist attack, well somebody forgot to read the news from pick one: (Iraq, Afganistan, India, Korea, Thailand, the Phillipines, Saudi Arabia, Isreal, Lebanon, Syria, or the country of your choice), check. WMD's found by Rick Santorum a few months ago buried in a classified Pentagon report from a couple years ago, check.
So I guess you prediction is: MORE OF THE SAME. Way to go out on a limb...
Here's mine. The liberals and Defeatacrats will: deflact blame for 9/11 away from Clinton, say Iraq was (wrong, badly handled, needs to be surrendered, a war crime, or bad for the overall war on terror effort), claim corruption or racisim about a Republican, ignore corruption or racisim by a Democrat, capitalize on a convienantly leaked and beneficial partial secret document, undermine the President, make sweet love to Hugo Chavez's ass, hate the troops, obstruct everything, propose nothing,and do their best to avoid winning the mid-term elections despite all of their advantages this season.
Just because the sky is blue in October, doesn't mean there's electoral signifgance...turns out its blue most of the time...you just don't always notice.
H
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
You know what I find weird? In the last two elections cycles Democrats lead 3 - 5% in the polls. Then they lost by that amount in key states - leading people to tell election officials "you got some 'splainin' to do". Now you don't heard news about ANY polls. No polls - no strange discrepancies - no awkward questions after the elections. Problem solved.
I noticed last weekend an unranked NCAA football team beat a ranked football team. This was contrary to all the polls. Polls aren't always right...thats why they play the game.
Perhaps if the Demcrats focused more on getting votes and less on winning polls, then they'd do a little better. Most major polls are slanted in one direction or another (actually its most to the left and a couple to the right). I find the ones that aren't slanted tended to be the most correct in predicting outcomes. Funny how that worked out.
H
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Zero,
Always and ever a zero. You too never fail to confirm my opinion of you. It's nice to have something to count on.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Bin Laden dead reports confirmed HERO? This administration does not want him to die of natural causes. That would be a colosal failure. Better an at-large boogie man than that.
You know I meant terrorist attack on U.S. soil. like the anthrax attack that was conveniently forgotten every time Bush and his people say we haven't been attacked since 9/11. Of course other attacks happen everyday but they aren't real to the American public sadly, or we would have applied preasure on bush to get our soldiers out of harms way long ago.
As Casey said to Santorum, him believing that weapons of mass destruction were found in Iraq represents to 2 percent of the time he disagrees with the president. If it were true it would be all day news. Why would they classify it? it was the reason for going to war and it would vindicate the whole operation. It would be a moral blow to terrorists as well. They don't say they found weapons because they didn't and because they know that minor case is not what we predicated our invasion on, and they would look foolish for invoking it.
You apparently don't care how foolish or insincere you look.
Quit acting like the democrats have proposed nothing. They've gotten no bills to the floor except for like 1 minimum wage hike bill that only got there on the grounds that they had to make it a guaranteed failure by agreeing to a 2/3's vote - sadly that's the way senate majority works.
they've made plenty of proposals, they have a stance on terror, they have a stance on all of these things, but they have no way of bringing anything up for a vote - it's hard enough just to try to stop Bush and his cronies from passing poison pills that slowly kill America - and for fucks-sake, that's platform enough for me.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by Righteous9:
Yeah, the polls are being downplayed. You can find them though. They were looking great for dems, but the closer we get to the election the closer the numbers get within the margin of error -- go figure. Harder to steal an election that is nowhere close in the polls I guess.
The assasination thing is also scary. It would be a horrible thing for this county if he were assasinated or shot at. The whole grenade thing didn't seem to help him much though - but as a martyr? I thought of this before I heard about the movie. The powers that be have basically gotten all the use out of him they could. He's damaged goods now. He'd be much more useful to them dead, you'd think. Good thing for him for his dad I guess.
Yeah it's the Los Angeles times, New York post, ABC, CNN poll conspiracy. What we need is to get all the neocons to stop running these polls
And as far as the polls getting closer to the margin of error as we approach election, the undecided voters actually picking sides. How weird is that...who woulda thunk it!
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Canker sore,
I would like to see ANY analysis that took a long view of Bush's policies and evaluated them one by one.
Bush can't stand on his record. That's why there's a media flurry of non-news, all pointing anywhere else but at Bush's many failures. It's easy to propagandize the public when the media does your dirty work for you.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
You know, I work with people who've maintained all along there will be some huge event - something large enough to declare martial law and to claim authority to cancel elections. They've speculated dirty bombs, anthrax, assassination -
I personally don't hold with this, but it's interesting that highly educated people (people with science PhDs and political connections) do give this credit.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
My guess is that we have already seen the surprise: drastically falling gas prices. That is not to say this drop is organized or controlled by the Bush Administration or the Republicans, but I hypothesize it is instead being done by private interests because they know, quite frankly, who butters their bread (see Energy Bill).
Regarding the discepancies between the polls and actual votes, there might be a much less sinister explanation. Most polls I see are conducted nationwide, which means they are worthless. What a majority of voters think across the country means very little in your home state. It means even less in your Congressional district, which has been gerrymandered to such a degree that public opinion is inconsequential.
Oh, and The Post is owned by Murdoch. It's The Times Republicans are supposed to hate...
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Ruse,
He's a two term prez. I'd call that standing on ones record. Or should I just pretend he wasn't voted in twice, and forget that America voted him in over Gore or Mari-ah?
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by FellowTraveler:
My guess is that we have already seen the surprise: drastically falling gas prices. That is not to say this drop is organized or controlled by the Bush Administration or the Republicans, but I hypothesize it is instead being done by private interests because they know, quite frankly, who butters their bread (see Energy Bill).
Regarding the discepancies between the polls and actual votes, there might be a much less sinister explanation. Most polls I see are conducted nationwide, which means they are worthless. What a majority of voters think across the country means very little in your home state. It means even less in your Congressional district, which has been gerrymandered to such a degree that public opinion is inconsequential.
Oh, and The Post is owned by Murdoch. It's The Times Republicans are supposed to hate...
Another conspiracy? Nothing as unusual as gas prices falling after labor day. I smell a fix!
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Canker sore
Bush was not voted into office either time. The republican machine put him there by stripping away the votes of 3 MILLION Americans.
Let's break that down into how massive that kind of election fraud is. In Florida 2000 alone 90,000 registered voters - mostly democrats - were stripped from the rolls They have not YET been restored. Did you know that? Even given that, if a full recount had been allowed Gore would have won. As it was, the US Supreme Court made the highly illegal decision to appoint Bush. In Ohio 2004 alone a quarter of a million voters - again mostly democrats - were either removed from the rolls, sent to the wrong polling place, given the wrong ballots, had their provisional ballots thrown out, or otherwise had their vote 'disappeared' in Diebold machines. It was the same story as in 2000 - pre-election polls and exit polls all pointed to a democratic win - and a win for honest elections and for democracy. But the Bush administration and republican congress decided there would be no investigation of election fraud. Geeze, I wonder why that is, Canker sore? Maybe you can come up with an answer.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Canker sore,
I would like to see ANY analysis that took a long view of Bush's policies and evaluated them one by one.
Bush can't stand on his record. That's why there's a media flurry of non-news, all pointing anywhere else but at Bush's many failures. It's easy to propagandize the public when the media does your dirty work for you.
Ruse,
You should spell it...Kaneker sore
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:
Another conspiracy? Nothing as unusual as gas prices falling after labor day. I smell a fix!
Yes, gas prices do normally drop in the fall, but not by 20%.
And a far out conspiracy theory? Perhaps, but:
http://www.wltx.com/news/story.aspx?storyid=42313
Quote:
Back in July, both crude oil and gasoline hit their highest recorded prices. Gas was averaging about three dollars a gallon. By mid-September, oil had dropped about fifteen bucks a barrel. So gas should have dropped about forty five cents a gallon. But actually dropped fifty cents a gallon, and more since then. We asked professor Ashkay Rao, who studies pricing strategies, if President Bush could have had a hand in plummeting gas prices.
Rao says, "surely if he picked up the phone and made five or ten strategic phone calls he might be able to influence prices to some degree. But I think that's a fairly far-fetched theory.
While he doubts the conspiracy theory, Rao says it's conceivable the price cuts might have come from the energy industry, without any prompting from Washington, out of fear that if the Democrats win, they'll make good on threats to tax the energy industry more heavily.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
You know, I work with people who've maintained all along there will be some huge event - something large enough to declare martial law and to claim authority to cancel elections. They've speculated dirty bombs, anthrax, assassination -
I personally don't hold with this, but it's interesting that highly educated people (people with science PhDs and political connections) do give this credit.
You know what they say about college degrees not being worth the paper they're printed on any more. I'm curious Ruse, where do you work? I wouldn't give any credence to what Proctologists and Political interns say either.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Oh please, the sock-puppetry is getting old kids, it was amusing at one time, but now it's just tedious.
Actually my bid has to do with a provocation strike against Iran, either by direct support of radicals who hate the current regime (kinda like our support of the Mujahadeen against the Soviets, which lead to the Taliban) which will no doubt boomerang on us like OBL and Saddam did, or by some form of strike against their nuclear program.
Certain fleet elements have been deployed with orders to put them in a position to do so right around the typical time frame for an October surprise, and the thought that we may well be provoking a war for some dipwads political advantage just makes me wanna hurl.
I figure a brace of Tomahawks into Iran's nuclear program on the premise of "they're building a bomb" is most likely - followed by prettymuch the end of the world as we know it, cause that is very likely to be a "last straw" kind of thing with a lot of nations, and we will find OURSELVES facing some sanctions, whether the UN approves em or not.
That happens, our economy is gonna be like a V-8 with two dead spark plugs, it may be makin a lotta noise, but it ain't goin nowhere important.
-Frem
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Kaneman,
I'll grant speculation on my part for my post about the polls getting closer. You could be right about the reasons. I don't personally trust the polling done by the same institutions that bring us our bogus news, but I can't say the numbers are manipulated.
I do believe however if memory serves, that numbers at CNN were manipulated after the 2004 election to make their exit polling data better match the actual results. If this is correct, and I'll look it up, it hardly puts the idea of manipulating these polls beyond the pale.
..................
I don't expect any drastic happening with any certainty. Such games seem dangerous, and this administration has been cought on some of its lesser machinations. But aside of pragmatism, I don't think massive scale manipulation of facts or events is beyond them if it is something they could benefit from. There is nothing they aren't willing to stage, from Bush's Katrina photo op, to prompted soldier questions, to bribed journalists...to fabricated intelligence...etc.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by Righteous9:
The powers that be have basically gotten all the use out of him they could. He's damaged goods now. He'd be much more useful to them dead, you'd think.
If he gets killed *A*F*T*E*R* the new term starts, Cheney can stay in office almost 10 years. If the VP serves more than 2 years of a dead-Prez's term, he can only be re-elected once, but if that VP serves less than 2, can be re-elected *T*W*I*C*E*...
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by Righteous9:
What will Rove and the GOP roll out just a couple weeks before election day? ...
Major terrorist attack thwarted - not playing so well any more...they'd need something big here, like actually finding a person who was in possession of a dirty bomb.
Remember, the real key to an October surprise it that it doesn't have to be *T*R*U*E*, it just has to come along late enough for there to be no time to show that it was exaggeration or an outright lie
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Just thought I'd point out that though I use the name 'Canker sore' for one poster, I actually contribute to the topics.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:That's true.
Remember, the real key to an October surprise it that it doesn't have to be *T*R*U*E*, it just has to come along late enough for there to be no time to show that it was exaggeration or an outright lie.
Perhaps it'll be like last time, considering it's already started. LIQUID BOMBS! that fades away. BIN LADEN DEAD! that was quickly suppressed (but the topic reserved for later). SOME LIQUID RESTRICTIONS LIFTED! just in case you forgot about liquid explosives - a reminder.*
It could be a never ending churning of low-level over-hyped items. The point is - BE AFRAID, and distracted from Bush's record of failure.
* Out of curiosity I scanned ALL of the major nt'l US news sources yesterday. WashPost, NYTimes, LATimes, CNN, Yahoo, USAToday, Boston Globe, AP. The ONLY story headlined in every one was "Some Liquid Restrictions Lifted". Despite truly vital news such as the leaked intelligence report, ALL the carrriers somehow just happened to headline this trivial item. "Free press". Yeah.
"Well, it's true."
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:No need to "pretend" he wasn't voted in twice because- guess what?- he wasn't voted in twice. In fact, he wasn't even voted in once. So you can relax, stop pretending, and just go with reality.
Ruse, He's a two term prez. I'd call that standing on ones record. Or should I just pretend he wasn't voted in twice,
---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:You do NOT want to get into this. But since you already stepped into it
You know what they say about college degrees not being worth the paper they're printed on any more. I'm curious Ruse, where do you work?
... tell me Canker Sore, where do YOU work? DO you work? You DO work, right? And you area of expertise is... what? High school?---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I vote for surprise attacks on Iranian "WMD" facilities by "black ops" Pentagon forces operating directly under Cambone (who rerpots directly to Rumsfeld.)
www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?050124fa_fact
---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
And the administration IS gearing up for that. While there is now enough international dispute to keep Bush's Iran agenda away from the UN, the aministration is amassing what will be its 'after the fact' excuses.
"This is like prewar Iraq all over again," said David Albright, a former nuclear inspector who is president of the Washington-based Institute for Science and International Security. "You have an Iranian nuclear threat that is spun up, using bad information that's cherry-picked and a report that trashes the inspectors."
The committee report, written by a single Republican staffer with a hard-line position on Iran, chastised the CIA and other agencies for not providing evidence to back assertions that Iran is building nuclear weapons.
U.N. inspectors investigating Iran's nuclear program angrily complained to the Bush administration and to a Republican congressman yesterday about a recent House committee report on Iran's capabilities, calling parts of the document "outrageous and dishonest" and offering evidence to refute its central claims.
Officials of the United Nations' International Atomic Energy Agency said in a letter that the report contained some "erroneous, misleading and unsubstantiated statements." The letter, signed by a senior director at the agency, was addressed to Rep. Peter Hoekstra (R-Mich.), chairman of the House intelligence committee, which issued the report. A copy was hand-delivered to Gregory L. Schulte, the U.S. ambassador to the IAEA in Vienna.
The IAEA openly clashed with the Bush administration on pre-war assessments of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Relations all but collapsed when the agency revealed that the White House had based some allegations about an Iraqi nuclear program on forged documents.
After no such weapons were found in Iraq, the IAEA came under additional criticism for taking a cautious approach on Iran, which the White House says is trying to build nuclear weapons in secret. At one point, the administration orchestrated a campaign to remove the IAEA's director general, Mohamed ElBaradei. It failed, and he won the Nobel Peace Prize last year.
Yesterday's letter, a copy of which was provided to The Washington Post, was the first time the IAEA has publicly disputed U.S. allegations about its Iran investigation. The agency noted five major errors in the committee's 29-page report, which said Iran's nuclear capabilities are more advanced than either the IAEA or U.S. intelligence has shown.
Among the committee's assertions is that Iran is producing weapons-grade uranium at its facility in the town of Natanz. The IAEA called that "incorrect," noting that weapons-grade uranium is enriched to a level of 90 percent or more. Iran has enriched uranium to 3.5 percent under IAEA monitoring.
When the congressional report was released last month, Hoekstra said his intent was "to help increase the American public's understanding of Iran as a threat." Spokesman Jamal Ware said yesterday that Hoekstra will respond to the IAEA letter.
Rep. Rush D. Holt (D-N.J.), a committee member, said the report was "clearly not prepared in a manner that we can rely on." He agreed to send it to the full committee for review, but the Republicans decided to make it public before then, he said in an interview.
The report was never voted on or discussed by the full committee. Rep. Jane Harman (Calif.), the vice chairman, told Democratic colleagues in a private e-mail that the report "took a number of analytical shortcuts that present the Iran threat as more dire -- and the Intelligence Community's assessments as more certain -- than they are."
Privately, several intelligence officials said the committee report included at least a dozen claims that were either demonstrably wrong or impossible to substantiate. Hoekstra's office said the report was reviewed by the office of John D. Negroponte, the director of national intelligence.
Negroponte's spokesman, John Callahan, said in a statement that his office "reviewed the report and provided its response to the committee on July 24
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:Quote:You do NOT want to get into this. But since you already stepped into it
You know what they say about college degrees not being worth the paper they're printed on any more. I'm curious Ruse, where do you work?
PS - SignyM
You won't get a reply on this. I believe canker sore sends an SOS to slick, who ghosts the posts. That's why the lack of foul language, 'well it's true' sign-off, incoherent wording, and other typical characteristics. The change of topic, dismissive and belittling innuendo, the wording, variety of techniques, etc not just in this post but over several posts are more in keeping with slick.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:Quote:You do NOT want to get into this. But since you already stepped into it
You know what they say about college degrees not being worth the paper they're printed on any more. I'm curious Ruse, where do you work?
PS - SignyM
You won't get a reply on this. I believe canker sore sends an SOS to slick, who ghosts the posts. That's why the lack of foul language, 'well it's true' sign-off, incoherent wording, and other typical characteristics. The change of topic, dismissive and belittling innuendo, the wording, variety of techniques, etc not just in this post but over several posts are more in keeping with slick.
Sig,
My expertise is in animal behavior. I usually help diagnose and determine the cause of psychological changes in pets and farm animals. A typical day has me going to peoples homes and farms, trying to connect with the animals, in an effort to try and understand sudden change in behavior. My newest client is a piglet named Charles. His owners are quite distraught that he refuses to walk on four legs. My early diagnoses is that he developed a bipedal complex watching their two year old daughter learning to walk. Who can blame him...poor thing, my heart goes out to him.
Ruse,
You are such an aped-ball faggot. The next time you remove your thumb from your ass, would you stick it in your mouth and suck on it for me? I thank you in advance....Well, it's true...
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Amazing that they think they're fooling anyone, innit ?
In light of this threat, imma post a monologue from V for Vendetta, cause it's eerie similarity to recent events of the past five years cannot be disputed.
V: [Disguised as William Rookwood, meeting with Inspector Finch]
Our story begins, as these stories often do, with a young up-and-coming politician. He's a deeply religious man and a member of the conservative party. He is completely single-minded convictions and has no regard for the political process. Eventually, his party launches a special project in the name of 'national security'. At first, it is believed to be a search for biological weapons and it is pursued regardless of its cost. However, the true goal of the project is power, complete and total hegemonic domination. The project, however, ends violently... but the efforts of those involved are not in vain, for a new ability to wage war is born from the blood of one of their victims. Imagine a virus - the most terrifying virus you can, and then imagine that you and you alone have the cure. But if your ultimate goal is power, how best to use such a weapon? It is at this point in our story that along comes a spider. He is a man seemingly without a conscience; for whom the ends always justify the means and it is he who suggests that their target should not be an enemy of the country but rather the country itself. Three targets are chosen to maximize the effect of the attack: a school, a tube station, and a water-treatment plant. Several hundred die within the first few weeks. Until at last the true goal comes into view. Before the St. Mary's crisis, no one would have predicted the outcome of the elections. No one. But after the election, lo and behold, a miracle. Some believed that it was the work of God himself, but it was a pharmaceutical company controlled by certain party members made them all obscenely rich. But the true genius of the plan was the fear. A year later, several extremeists are tried, found guilty, and executed while a memorial is built, erected to canonize their victims. Fear became the ultimate tool of this government. And through it our politician was ultimately appointed to the newly created position of High Chancellor. The rest, as they say, is history.
We have the advantage in that we are already suspicious, already aware that such a thing is possible, even plausible, at the hands of our current administration - yet I think we're taking the wrong stance here, we are REacting, or planning to react, instead of acting.
If there's one lesson to be learned here, let it be this: NEVER give a shark the first bite.
And so, forgive the threadjack, but why not turn this discussion to the more useful topic of how to PREVENT an October Surprise, at least insofar as to prevent one that causes needless death and destruction.
Many activists, including myself, are currently appealing directly to military commanders to actually follow the UCMJ, which, if done, would eliminate even the possibility of military action for the sole sake of political gain, barring an act of congress authorising it.
For reference
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/justicelawlegislation/l/blucmj.htm
Full copy of the UCMJ
GITMO, for example, clearly violates provisions 13,93 and 97, provided that said prisoners are under military jurisdiction, as the courts have decided.
Without a congressional declaration of war, the united states military is forbidden to act save in their own defense, against another country and/or it's armed forces - thus, if the UCMJ were actually respected and obeyed, the command brass, when given the order to attack, would file it as an illegal order in compliance with regulations, properly refuse it, and then submit it to the proper authorities for use at a possible impeachment proceedings.
Bush is the CinC, sure, but it don't make him God.
-Frem
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
"You know what they say about college degrees not being worth the paper they're printed on any more. I'm curious Ruse, where do you work?"
I don't disclose specific identifying information.
Here is a clue posted on another thread:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=18&t=24228
I'm here on my day off, working on reports for some toxic samples that were so nasty the papers that sat next to the closed stainless steel containers still reek. :vapors:
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
"Ruse,
You are such an aped-ball faggot. The next time you remove your thumb from your ass, would you stick it in your mouth and suck on it for me? I thank you in advance....Well, it's true..."
There we go. Back to the original author.
I couldn't help but read your reply to SignyM. I see you're quite an expert at, well, whatever it is you pretend to do. OK as long as there are people willing to pay for the voodoo you do. But not to worry you'll run out. Hey, as they say, there's a sucker born every minute.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:Huh. I'm a nuclear physicist myself. Also a brain surgeon and a spy. That's why I know so much about so much. My informants tell me that your total lack of empathy and insight often leads you to misdiagnose your victi... I mean, clients. Is it true that you told the owners to put the poor pig our of it's misery and have bacon for breakfast?
My expertise is in animal behavior. I usually help diagnose and determine the cause of psychological changes in pets and farm animals. A typical day has me going to peoples homes and farms, trying to connect with the animals, in an effort to try and understand sudden change in behavior. My newest client is a piglet named Charles. His owners are quite distraught that he refuses to walk on four legs. My early diagnoses is that he developed a bipedal complex watching their two year old daughter learning to walk. Who can blame him...poor thing, my heart goes out to him. - Kaneman
---------------------------------
WHEEEE!!!! This is fun!!
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha :BIG biggrin 
:
So, I was going over this. I read it as:
falling gas prices
demonizing Clinton specifically and democrats in general
ongoing manipulation of threats, alerts, news to create fear
bin Laden dead
an Iran attack
lies, lies and more lies, but very late in the game
religion
terrorist attack on US soil, actual or thwarted
Bush assassination attempt
WMD found
Sadly, some of these have been done, are already underway, and the others are believable.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Actually my bid has to do with a provocation strike against Iran, either by direct support of radicals who hate the current regime (kinda like our support of the Mujahadeen against the Soviets, which lead to the Taliban) which will no doubt boomerang on us like OBL and Saddam did, or by some form of strike against their nuclear program.
Not that I wouldn't put that past these guys (anything to expand the Empire), but won't China back Iran if the US starts a fight. I can't imagine anyone, Democrat or Republican, who wants that. China has what, like a billion man standing army? We would get our asses handed to us...
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:Quote:Huh. I'm a nuclear physicist myself. Also a brain surgeon and a spy. That's why I know so much about so much. My informants tell me that your total lack of empathy and insight often leads you to misdiagnose your victi... I mean, clients. Is it true that you told the owners to put the poor pig our of it's misery and have bacon for breakfast?
My expertise is in animal behavior. I usually help diagnose and determine the cause of psychological changes in pets and farm animals. A typical day has me going to peoples homes and farms, trying to connect with the animals, in an effort to try and understand sudden change in behavior. My newest client is a piglet named Charles. His owners are quite distraught that he refuses to walk on four legs. My early diagnoses is that he developed a bipedal complex watching their two year old daughter learning to walk. Who can blame him...poor thing, my heart goes out to him. - Kaneman
---------------------------------
WHEEEE!!!! This is fun!!
Just another example of "Liberal" disinformation and mud slinging. My advice was to tie his hind legs together 'til he learns to respect his front legs. I would never advocate the eating of meat...Never!!!!....Well, unless it was Rue eating his own...Well, it's true
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:What can I say? You and I are rational people. But Iraq was supposed to be a cakewalk and the administration ignored every expert warning and intelligence. And they are STILL saying things are going well and 'stay the course'. Bush gave a speech yesterday (I believe) where he dismissed events in Iraq. (He said there was a 'strong' interest in democracy, which, in his mind, made everything OK.)
Not that I wouldn't put that past these guys (anything to expand the Empire), but won't China back Iran if the US starts a fight. I can't imagine anyone, Democrat or Republican, who wants that. China has what, like a billion man standing army? We would get our asses handed to us...
These people are not operating in the real world, the world inhabited by sane people. They are both insane and evil.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Canker sore,
"Well, unless it was Rue eating his own...Well, it's true"
OOOHHHHh this is fun! I almost laughed. I can hardly wait to see what you post next!
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Well, we all know it's hard to laugh with your mouth full. I'll wait 'til you're done eating next time Well it is just a snack, right
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Canker sore - now it's just tedious. You need to work on your routine some. Well, it's true ...
BTW, do you have ANYTHING substantive to contribute to the topic?
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:My undrestanding is that the concept is precision lightening-strikes (either air or ground). According to vars folks, the USA already has "sniffer" probes inside Iran to try and suss out of their nuclear facilities (which are dispersed in hardened underground facilities). But I don't forsee any USA troops on Iranian soil for any length of time- certainly not enough time for China to actually respond militarily. (Think of the Israeli bombing of Iraq's nulcear facility).
Not that I wouldn't put that past these guys (anything to expand the Empire), but won't China back Iran if the US starts a fight. I can't imagine anyone, Democrat or Republican, who wants that. China has what, like a billion man standing army? We would get our asses handed to us...
OTOH, the Chinese have many ways to retaliate besides militarily. It just depends on how much they want to suffer along with us, because they are MAJOR Treasury and note-holders of USA debt.
---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Another Ruse from Ruse, how amusing. Start at the top of this thread and read. Every time I post you come in with Canker sore this or Canker sore that...I could tell from your political ideology that you have a very selective memory, a twisted view of history, and no sense of humor. Thanks for the confirmation. Well, it's true....And, as I've posted before, spelling it Kaneker sore would be kind of witty...instead we get Auraptor= asswipe, Hero= Zero, and Kaneman= canker sore. Why bother living? You are less than moss.....
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Well, OK, the US won't do it with troops on the ground, and Israel won't do it at all (got burned on Lebanon). Would the US actually strike in a way that the world could witness? Missiles from aircraft, subs and the like.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I'm with Signy and Frem, we're gonna shoot at Iran just before elections, 'cause we 'have to', and they'll shoot back. Scare the peeps into staying the course towards the iceberg.
Bush will then have a fake heart attack, and ask America to win one for his gipper from the hospital bed. That'll be a nice dramatic touch.
Where's Skynet when you need it Chrisisall
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Canker sore - I wouldn't fluff the name and get too comfy with it if I were you. It's really only the first.
Apparently you never actually read my posts. I invited you to read the statistical error analysis of the exit polls. You dropped the topic. I mentioned that there was no media analysis of Bush's policies to date. You dropped the topic. I also said Bush wasn't elected either time (this was in specific response to your post, which BTW had nothing to do with the thread.) You dropped the topic. When I reported on my co-worker's opinions, all you had was an ad hominem attack. ("I wouldn't give any credence to what Proctologists and Political interns say either.")
In the meantime - I've actually been discussing the topic with the more rational, honorable people here. You should try it. You might learn something.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
After having a foriegn leader stand in NYC and call our prez the devil, there will be no other suprise. That was the suprise. Thank you Hugo!!
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I know that the administration is insane. I just can't bring myself to believe they are THAT crazy. Would they actually - in an aggressor role by any international standards - openly attack Iran unprovoked without even phony UN cover? Wouldn't they try for plausible deniability?
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:*Still wanting your head now*
Originally posted by kaneman:
Thank you Hugo!!
On a lance Chrisisall
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
On vital and time-sensitive information from a sourse, they will execute a Pre-emptive Mandatory Strike to defend this nation.
PMSy Chrisisall
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:Me four. People don't like to change leaders during a war.
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I'm with Signy and Frem, we're gonna shoot at Iran just before elections, 'cause we 'have to', and they'll shoot back.
Can't Take My Gorram Sky
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
* Out of curiosity I scanned ALL of the major nt'l US news sources yesterday. WashPost, NYTimes, LATimes, CNN, Yahoo, USAToday, Boston Globe, AP. The ONLY story headlined in every one was "Some Liquid Restrictions Lifted". Despite truly vital news such as the leaked intelligence report, ALL the carrriers somehow just happened to headline this trivial item. "Free press". Yeah.
So major news sources were trying to inform the public "some liquid restrictions lifted" to keep the flying public informed, what were they thinking? I hear a lot of the major news sources also have weather forecasts. Why are they wasting time with forecasting the weather when there are so many 'more important' things to report?
Posting to stir stuff up.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:
Thank you Hugo!!
*Still wanting your head now*
On a lance Chrisisall
What gives? Not familiar with sarcasm?
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Hey there Big Damn Nothing -
My point was that it didn't deserve to be front-page HEADLINED when there was so much more real news to report. Now where did I say that? Oh yes, it was here: "The ONLY story headlined in every one was "Some Liquid Restrictions Lifted".
And YOUR point was?? Well, nothing comes from a nothing, I guess.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Hey there Big Damn Nothing -
My point was that it didn't deserve to be front-page HEADLINED when there was so much more real news to report.
So much more real news to report IYHO.
Do you think the millions of flyers daily were more interested in the change to restrictions or the leaked intelligence report? And remember now, news sources are not non-profit. Seems like solid economics to cater to the greater audience, at least on the front page.
Quote:
And YOUR point was?? Well, nothing comes from a nothing, I guess.
Now that's what I like to see, you maintaining a certain level of civility. What did I do to deserve this? Does anyone who disagrees with you automatically become a troll in your view? Honestly, was it my temerity in questioning one of your posts? Is it you are either with Rue or against Rue?
Posting to stir stuff up.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I am extraordinarily civil to DT, Finn, CTS, Antimason, and PN though I vehemently disagree with almost everything they say. And I also am civil, even friendly, with the many others with whom I disagree on some points and agree on others. Out of all the people I interact with on this board, there are only four to whom I have given my pet names. And not b/c I disagree with them.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I agree with the consensus pick for the October surprise: an aerial attack on Iran followed by an all out media blitzkrieg of, "you're either with us or with the terrorists."
Things that will happen in October that are less surprising... Republicans will work to limit the number of people who are eligible to vote in as many regions as they control. Republican campaigns will use push polling to try to scare voters away from their opponents. Tens of millions of dollars will be dumped into Republican scare campaigns using mail, radio and television/cable ads. Media conglomerates, being the huge corporations that they are, will spin every single topic as a "good thing" for Republicans. Media personalities will continue to repeat Republican talking points without an attempt at verification. Staffers for Republican candidates will engage in concern trolling on low traffic density liberal blogs. Retired military Democratic candidates will have their service records questioned by those who never spent a second in uniform. Double amputees will be told that they want to "cut and run." Republicans will continue their embrace of torture and secret prisons and illegal information gathering.
And the vast moneyed infrastructure of the Republican GOTV effort will continue to roll on. They know how close they are to one-party rule in this country. They are scared as hell that enough Americans will realize that you shouldn't put people who don't believe in big government in charge of big government because they don't know what the fuck they are doing. And they don't care that they are messing up. It's all about the power, baby, and making the country a better place for that top 1%. They are hoping and praying that they get another two years in charge of all three branches of government because there's still a lot of damage they want to do to the middle class.
The only real surprise in all this is that there are still Americans out there who will continue to vote Republican. Apparently they think that Bush and the Republican controlled Congress are doing a heckuva job. I guess it's too much to hope that they put down the crack pipe of the right wing media machine (Fox, Rush, Drudge, etc.) long enough to sober up and realize they're voting for more incompetence, continued lack of oversight, continued tarnishing of America's reputation as a moral country, and staying a failed course.
I have no respect for anyone who votes for an incumbent Republican Congressman or Senator this election. None.
"This is how the world sees us: In America they torture people, including their own, in secret prisons." - tbogg
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
I am extraordinarily civil to DT, Finn, CTS, Antimason, and PN though I vehemently disagree with almost everything they say. And I also am civil, even friendly, with the many others with whom I disagree on some points and agree on others. Out of all the people I interact with on this board, there are only four I have given my pet names. And not b/c I disagree with them.
Still dosen't answer my question, though you know that, don't you.
Posting to stir stuff up.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Then maybe you need to learn how to read.
The question was: "was it my temerity in questioning one of your posts?"
My answer: ".. there are only four to whom I have given my pet names. And not b/c I disagree with them."
Do you see the answer to YOUR question in there? Or will it take heavy duty medication to clear your confusion?
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Then maybe you need to learn how to read.
The question was: "was it my temerity in questioning one of your posts?"
My answer: ".. there are only four to whom I have given my pet names. And not b/c I disagree with them."
Do you see the answer to YOUR question in there? Or will it take heavy duty medication to clear your confusion?
My question was what I did to deserve the 'pet name'. So no, I do not see an answer to MY question in there, heavy medication or not.
Posting to stir stuff up.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I love how you go back and forth between threads, pretending that nothing else has been posted elswhere.
So, here is one:
"The other posters in this thread, in their earnestness, tolerance and CIVILITY actually attempted to interact with him - civilly and coherently, with facts and information. And for their pains they got mocked - by you. Now maybe you see why you are working your way into a pet name."
And another:
"So let's see. What are the rules you made up for me? I can discuss, and you can lie and say I don't. My quips are not civil, but yours are. You can opine, and I can't."
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
I love how you go back and forth between threads, pretending that nothing else has been posted elswhere.
So, here is one:
"The other posters in this thread, in their earnestness, tolerance and CIVILITY actually attempted to interact with him - civilly and coherently, with facts and information. And for their pains they got mocked - by you. Now maybe you see why you are working your way into a pet name."
And another:
"So let's see. What are the rules you made up for me? I can discuss, and you can lie and say I don't. My quips are not civil, but yours are. You can opine, and I can't."
Now you quote yourself twice instead of answering my question. Maybe if you posted just one of my quotes that offended you enough to give me a 'pet name' we would actually get somewhere.
Posting to stir stuff up.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
You wanted my thoughts, I gave them to you.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
You wanted my thoughts, I gave them to you.
Ah, but where is your proof? I will no longer listen to you or your argument unless you can provide a quote or a link . Now where have I heard that argument before?
Posting to stir stuff up.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:*Still wanting your head now*
Originally posted by kaneman:
Thank you Hugo!!
On a lance Chrisisall
Most guys would've already had my "head" ..You have been MIA. I have been beating Ruse with my dirty tampon. Where are the real men? Well, it's trueisall
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:When you decide what you really want to know, just let me know. Otherwise I'll conclude your aim is to change the goal posts at every opportunity.
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
You wanted my thoughts, I gave them to you.
Ah, but where is your proof? I will no longer listen to you or your argument unless you can provide a quote or a link . Now where have I heard that argument before?
Posting to stir stuff up.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Their goal is to destroy anything resembling a reasonable debate, or sharing of opinions by reducing it to he-said-she-said flamefests, Rue.
Don't play into it - in thread after thread they demolish the thread's integrity, drive folk from the conversation, and more or less prevent us from discussing ANYTHING without devolving it to this - which is why I call them what they are.
Trolls.
The whole GOAL is to prevent any reasoned discussion of anything, thus preventing us from using this board at all, while banging their loud little drums and cranking out sock puppets so it looks like there's more than the puny two or three morons who hold, or even pretend to hold (cause they seem to change rather rapidly) certain beliefs, social, political, or religious.
So for every thread that devolves into nothing more that trollpost-response-trollpost-response and veers away from the topic into this garbage, it reduces our signal to noise ratio by just that much, which is their entire intent in the first place.
Just pay them no damn mind unless (and sometimes they do) they say something halfway intelligent, and every time they start playing games, just give em the verbal cold shoulder.
They WANT to drag folk into these back and forths because it destroys the original topic and all discussion more or less stops.
Treat them like the trolls they are.
-Frem
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I vote for Bin Laden's rotted corpse, if we're lucky...
Quote:
MISSION ACCOMPLICED AT ABU GHRAIB: US SOLDIERS ORDERED TO PACK IN ICE, STICK IV IN DEAD POW'S ARM, AND LOAD INTO AMBULANCE, TO PRETEND HE WASN'T TORTURED TO DEATH BY THE JR BUSH WHITE HOUSE
“On June 5, 2006, the Muckraker Report contacted the FBI Headquarters, 202-324-3000, to learn why Bin Laden’s Most Wanted poster did not indicate that Usama was also wanted in connection with 9/11. The Muckraker Report spoke with Rex Tomb, Chief of Investigative Publicity for the FBI. When asked why there is no mention of 9/11 on Bin Laden’s Most Wanted web page, Tomb said: 'The reason why 9/11 is not mentioned on Usama Bin Laden’s Most Wanted page is because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11. Bin Laden has not been formally charged in connection to 9/11. The FBI gathers evidence. Once evidence is gathered, it is turned over to the Department of Justice. The Department of Justice than decides whether it has enough evidence to present to a federal grand jury. In the case of the 1998 United States Embassies being bombed, Bin Laden has been formally indicted and charged by a grand jury. He has not been formally indicted and charged in connection with 9/11 because the FBI has no hard evidence connected Bin Laden to 9/11'”
—Ed Haas, Muckraker Report, "FBI says, 'No hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11'," June 6, 2006
www.teamliberty.net/id267.html
www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/terbinladen.htm
Question: "What did Iraq have to do with 9/11?"
George Bush Jr: "Nothing!"
—White House Press Conference
Tony Snow: "I want to be clear because I've heard you say this, and I've heard the President say it, but I want you to say it for my listeners, which is that the White House has never argued that Saddam was directly involved in September 11th, correct?"
Dick Cheney: "That's correct. We had one report early on from another intelligence service that suggested that the lead hijacker, Mohamed Atta, had met with Iraqi intelligence officials in Prague, Czechoslovakia. And that reporting waxed and waned where the degree of confidence in it, and so forth, has been pretty well knocked down now at this stage, that that meeting ever took place. So we've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming."
—WhiteHouse.gov, The Tony Snow Show, "Interview of the Vice President by Tony Snow", March 29, 2006
www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/03/20060329-2.html
"While the United States continues to scour Afghanistan for Osama bin Laden, an unidentified Taliban leader said the world's most wanted man is dead and buried, a news report said on Tuesday. Bin Laden died "a peaceful natural death" from serious lung complications in mid-December in the vicinity of the Tora Bora mountains, according to the unidentified Taliban member. Bin Laden was laid to rest with military honours with about 30 close al-Qaeda associates and Taliban friends attending the funeral."
—Sapa-DPA, "'I attended Osama Bin Laden's funeral,", December 25, 2001
www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=3&art_id=qw100928556223B212
"The Israeli sources said Israel and the United States assess that Bin Laden probably died in the U.S. military campaign in Afghanistan in December. They said the emergence of new messages by Bin Laden are probably fabrications, Middle East Newsline reported."
—World Tribune, "Israeli intelligence: Bin Laden is dead, heir has been chosen," October 16, 2002
http://www.welfarestate.com/binladen/funeral/
"The US Federal Bureau of Investigation's counter-terrorism chief, Dale Watson, says he thinks Osama bin Laden is "probably" dead."
—BBC News, "Bin Laden 'probably' dead," 18 July 2002
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/osama_dead.html
QUESTION: "Mr President, in your speeches, you rareNOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
You're already seeing resistance to striking Iran from military folks and intelligence agencies. That's why the budget fiasco on Iraq, the report from 15 intelligence agencies saying Iraq was a mistake, and generals flat-out asking for Rummmie's head on a platter. They stuck to their remits on Iraq, and look where that got them. I think they're going as "all out" as a bureaucracy trained to obedience can go. (I trust I don't have to link this? If I do, let me know.)
There is deep internecine warfare going on between the CIA and the WH. The CIA has been basically dismantled. Why do you think "kneecapper" Armitage leaked Plame's name to the world? http://baltimorechronicle.com/2006/091406Parry.shtml Now the CIA is blind to Iran's plans. Armitage is NOT a bland bureaucrat. He was a point man in Vietnam and loved it. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/2021640.cms He's been breaking kneecaps ever since- AFAIK most recently in Pakistan. www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,215820,00.html
and was deeply involved in Iran Contra
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Armitage
Apparently the architects of this plan deeply believe that once Iran's nuclear program is destroyed, the population will rise up. Seriously. The guys at the top are so disconnected from reality that the lack of rose petal parades in Iraq haven't given them pause.
I think the question is how Cheney & Co will rationalize this to the world.
Oops, time's up. TTUL.
---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Their goal is to destroy anything resembling a reasonable debate, or sharing of opinions by reducing it to he-said-she-said flamefests, Rue.
Don't play into it - in thread after thread they demolish the thread's integrity, drive folk from the conversation, and more or less prevent us from discussing ANYTHING without devolving it to this - which is why I call them what they are.
Trolls.
The whole GOAL is to prevent any reasoned discussion of anything, thus preventing us from using this board at all, while banging their loud little drums and cranking out sock puppets so it looks like there's more than the puny two or three morons who hold, or even pretend to hold (cause they seem to change rather rapidly) certain beliefs, social, political, or religious.
So for every thread that devolves into nothing more that trollpost-response-trollpost-response and veers away from the topic into this garbage, it reduces our signal to noise ratio by just that much, which is their entire intent in the first place.
Just pay them no damn mind unless (and sometimes they do) they say something halfway intelligent, and every time they start playing games, just give em the verbal cold shoulder.
They WANT to drag folk into these back and forths because it destroys the original topic and all discussion more or less stops.
Treat them like the trolls they are.
If speaking my mind automatically makes me a troll then so be it.
I agree that My and Rue's discussion has veered from the original topic. But when someone calls me a name and dismisses my viewpoint out of hand, is it not reasonable for me to ask why?
Calling me nothing and refering to Auraptor as a used piece of toilet paper is IMHO a virtual spit in the face. You yourself just called me a moron. Tell me how, IYHO, these trollish insults further the threads topic? Why the double standard?
And do not attempt to attack my credibility without proof. Agree or disagree with me, I remain consistent in my social and political beliefs.
Posting to stir stuff up.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:It's the American Corporate Way.
Originally posted by SignyM:
The guys at the top are so disconnected from reality
The chain of command we all get beat with.
The model is broke, why do we still follow it?
Even the 'bottom line' is screaming now, why is even THAT not getting more attention?
Better to burn out than fade away?
The War on Corporations Chrisisall
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:And now you're playing the innocent victim. I answered your multiple and shifting questions multiple times over two threads -
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
If speaking my mind automatically makes me a troll then so be it.
....is it not reasonable for me to ask why?
Here:
I hear a lot of the major news sources also have weather forecasts.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=18&t=24230
My point was that it didn't deserve to be front-page HEADLINED ... where did I say that? Oh yes, it was here: "The ONLY story headlined in every one was
Here:
Is it you are either with Rue or against Rue?
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=18&t=24230
There are only four to whom I have given my pet names. And not b/c I disagree with them.
Here:
Still dosen't answer my question, though you know that, don't you.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=18&t=24230
there are only four to whom I have given my pet names. And not b/c I disagree with them
Here:
slight dig at SignyM
little quips
voicing my opinion
my original post to you did contain a certain amount of dry humor
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=18&t=24154
the only debate I have here is how you call for civility in one thread when someone not you 'quips' or 'opines' or expresses 'dry humor', but set a different, and much lower, standard for yourself here.
Here;
My question was what I did to deserve the 'pet name'.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=18&t=24154
"The other posters in this thread, in their earnestness, tolerance and CIVILITY actually attempted to interact with him - civilly and coherently, with facts and information. And for their pains they got mocked - by you. Now maybe you see why you are working your way into a pet name."
Here:
Now you quote yourself twice instead of answering my question.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=18&t=24230
You wanted my thoughts, I gave them to you.
and
Here:
But where is your proof?
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=18&t=24230
I answered your questions. Your aim is to change the goal posts at every opportunity.
I can't help it if you can't or won't read the asnwers. They are plainly there for all to see.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
There are 4 votes for an 'aggressor' strike at Iran (with maybe some flimsy 'intelligence' as an excuse). These votes come from people I generally agree with and people I generally disagree with. And my rule is to credit opinions that come from multiple independent sources. But I can't, CAN'T bring myself to think the administration people are so effin' nuts they'll do domething that stupid. How can so MANY people be so on-board with something so insane? (Evil I'll go along with b/c it's rational though often rooted in short-term avarice. But the downside here is bigger than the upside.)
Do you all think this is a folie a crowd?
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
It is my belief that bombing Iran is something the Adminstration really, really, really wants and they'll finagle it if at all possible. Nothing will actually persuade them to re-think the wisdom of their appraoch, but they MAY be dissuaded by world and internal pressure, and the impossibility of coming up with a scenario that mollifies world reaction.
In effect, they would either have to
1)Prove (beforehand or afterwards) that Iran was approaching nuclear weapons production... gin up some "sniffer" or humint evidence.
2) Prove that Iran was behind some god-awful terrorist attack. They tried peddling that line when Israel invaded Lebanon, and altho the Sunni states didn't object very loudly to the invasion it seemed as if not too many people were interested in taking up the anti-Iranian banner either.
2) Twist arms and pay offs some folks behind the scenes, like they did with Pakistan. (Pakistan was threatened with bombing, but at the same time they got to "keep" their top nuclear scientist who smuggled out nuclear technology to a whole host of rogue states and to expand their own nuclear program.) Given Musharref's book release, I don't think Pakistan would be open for that kind of "diplomacy" again. Saudi Arabia and some of the other major Sunni states wouldn't openly object to a bombing of Iran. China and Russia OTOH... ?
When you add up Iran's friends, they are few and far between. Russia prolly wouldn't mind seeing Iran's oil flow disrupted. China and the EU would HATE to see oil disrupted, but I'm not sure how much they're willing to buck the USA. Now that I think about it... it might not be all that difficult for the USA to pull off simply because we ARE the 800-lb gorilla and nobody wants to go toe-to-toe with us unless it's truly a matter of national survival.
---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I see where you're going with this. And I agree certain sections of the administration REALLY want it. Though I see Cheney, who is evil but rational, possibly pitted against the insane ideologues. And the evidence that certain sections of the administration REALLY want it is in the phonied-up reports about Iran, in its constant attempt to inflame the rest of the world against Iran, and yes, even in its earlier outing of Plame. (The way they operate, the groundwork is laid years before.)
But the US messed up with Iraq. (I believe they really thought that if they invaded they'd find sufficient justification later.) Now the whole world - including every former and current ally - is cynical about US motives and claims. It's not just the local countries who might or might not object to a US attack. It's not just Russia or China. It's the entire world. And while individual countries may not have enough internal motivation, as a group they do have an interest in bringing the US down. At a certain point you look around and think - you know, I don't have to do anything. All we have to do, as a group, is just kinda exclude the US from some deals and trade and deal with each other more. Oh, and move the world currency to the Euro. It is already happening, the feelers have been sent out, the connections are in place, agreements have already been reached.
"When you add up Iran's friends..." But if you are a RATIONAL person and looking at the US vs the rest of the entire world, IOW, looking at the anti-US contingent, you'd realize there is no profit to be had when they ALL join against you.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Cheney &Co's entire response to the world is MILITARY, preferably Special Ops. Diplomacy? So what? Trade? Ho-hum. Sanctions? Yawn! Moral standing? Trade deficit? Busted budget? NOT A PROBLEM! I think that because they deal with the world almost exclusively militarily, nothing short of a military response would sway these guys. Even breaking the regular army is not considered a problem because what they REALLY want is to run everything Special Ops/black ops/ contract. So they would have to be facing loss of vital overseas military intallations, or a significant movement of hostile troops into areas of interest, or a complete intelligence/ military mutiny....
Of course this would make terrorist threat to the USA much worse. But a fearful population is a compliant population, and most would be too scared to look beyond a successful attack to the administration machinations that lay behind it.
---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I concede, though in my heart I can't truly believe it. It seems so blatantly boneheaded stoooopid. And crazy. I just can't imagine how at least some people in the administration don't see it as the disaster it would be. I just can't imagine they are ALL that nuts. But you've been right too often, and a lot of other people from different perspectives also believe this. So I will need to re-adjust my thinking until time tests our predictions out.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Well, with God on our side...
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Oh god .... no wait! I mean Oh! God!
Hey, here's something I found. I did notice that all of the sudden Iran WASN'T in the news. This could be why:
http://www.atimes.com/
AsiaTimes Online
Cashing in on the fear factor
There's a widespread belief that the Bush administration deliberately manipulated oil prices down ahead of mid-term elections, by suddenly softening its line on Tehran, for example. What drove prices up in the first place was fear - fear about a clash with Iran and the spread of war to other oil producers in the Middle East. Expect such fears to be stoked again after the elections. - Michael T Klare
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
You people are so focused on politics you haven't seen the real clue to the nature of the October Surprise - The New Orleans Saints are 3-0.
This un-natural occurance beggars rational explanation. There must be something sinister behind it.
I figure that the Saints winning streak will be artificially maintained until either their home game against Philadelphia (Oct 15) or Baltimore (Oct. 29). These games will be played in the SuperDome, and will probably be sellouts.
During half-time at one of these games, an out-of-control barge (or maybe on hijacked by terrorists) will ram the levee, threatening to flood the dome and environs.
Fortunately, Dubya will be touring a Corps of Engineers facility nearby, and immediately order that the 100,000 sandbags that just happen to be filled and ready be dumped in the hole. When one of the workers is overcome by exhaustion, Bush will step right in and pitch sandbags. Superdome and New Orleans saved due to the foresight of the Administration.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Whatcha been smokin' there?
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
There's a widespread belief that the Bush administration deliberately manipulated oil prices down ahead of mid-term elections, by suddenly softening its line on Tehran, for example. What drove prices up in the first place was fear - fear about a clash with Iran and the spread of war to other oil producers in the Middle East. Expect such fears to be stoked again after the elections. - Michael T Klare
Hey Rue,
While I agree that the strife in the Middle East has a large impact on the price of oil, Do not forget the other variables involved. Oil prices have also gone down because of the less stormy hurricane season which is being forecasted. I believe BP has reopened their supply lines or at least portions of them after the maintenance work which will also drop the price due to increased supply. There are also forecasts of a more temperate winter which again drops the price due to decreased demand. Perhaps during the last spike in oil prices, a large number of SUV owners saw the writing on the wall and decided to do away with their gas guzzlers therefore decreasing demand. Prices normally drop after the end of the summer driving season as well. And there is always the impact on the price of oil based on OPEC increasing or decreasing their output.
So with all of these other factors involved, it seems to me that perhaps the current Administration might not have as much to do with the falling price of oil as you would like to portray.
I will have to go through your last extensive post to me before responding or not. Not to say that I do not appreciate the time and effort which you obviously put into it to...?
Posting to stir stuff up.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
BigDamnNobody, all of that is true, but the math still doesn't add up. Same link as before:
http://www.wltx.com/news/story.aspx?storyid=42313
Quote:
Fifty five percent of what you pay for a gallon of gas is tied directly to the price of crude oil. Refining, distribution (and marketing) and taxes each make up roughly fifteen percent. So for every dollar that a barrel of oil moves, up or down, gasoline prices should move about three cents.
Back in July, both crude oil and gasoline hit their highest recorded prices. Gas was averaging about three dollars a gallon. By mid-September, oil had dropped about fifteen bucks a barrel. So gas should have dropped about forty five cents a gallon. But actually dropped fifty cents a gallon, and more since then.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060927.ROPEC27/TPSt
ory/Business
Quote:
U.S. crude fell 44 cents to close at $61.01 a barrel...
Oil prices have had their steepest decline since the Gulf War in 1991, falling from July's peak of $78.40 a barrel...
So, 78.40 - 61.01 = 17.39. 17.39 X 0.03 = 0.53 (rounded up). Prices at the pump should have dropped around .53 cents.
The national average price of gas peaked at $3.04 per gallon according to the Energy Information Administration. The average price today is 2.36 per gallon. 3.04 - 2.36 = 0.68
That's 0.15 more than prices should have dropped. The numbers just don't add up...
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
There's a widespread belief that the Bush administration deliberately manipulated oil prices down ahead of mid-term elections, by suddenly softening its line on Tehran, for example. What drove prices up in the first place was fear - fear about a clash with Iran and the spread of war to other oil producers in the Middle East. Expect such fears to be stoked again after the elections. - Michael T Klare
Hey Rue,
While I agree that the strife in the Middle East has a large impact on the price of oil, Do not forget the other variables involved. Oil prices have also gone down because of the less stormy hurricane season which is being forecasted. I believe BP has reopened their supply lines or at least portions of them after the maintenance work which will also drop the price due to increased supply. There are also forecasts of a more temperate winter which again drops the price due to decreased demand. Perhaps during the last spike in oil prices, a large number of SUV owners saw the writing on the wall and decided to do away with their gas guzzlers therefore decreasing demand. Prices normally drop after the end of the summer driving season as well. And there is always the impact on the price of oil based on OPEC increasing or decreasing their output.
So with all of these other factors involved, it seems to me that perhaps the current Administration might not have as much to do with the falling price of oil as you would like to portray.
I will have to go through your last extensive post to me before responding or not. Not to say that I do not appreciate the time and effort which you obviously put into it to...?
Posting to stir stuff up.
I thought it was already common knowledge that the Saudi's do not want Dems to win fearing higher taxes on energy, as a result have picked up production. I am pretty sure I heard this on NPR a couple weeks back. The price will rise again after the election, prompting screams of I told you so, because the north will begin to turn on their heaters. Hugo must be pissed.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:
I thought it was already common knowledge that the Saudi's do not want Dems to win fearing higher taxes on energy, as a result have picked up production. I am pretty sure I heard this on NPR a couple weeks back. The price will rise again after the election, prompting screams of I told you so, because the north will begin to turn on their heaters. Hugo must be pissed.
We don't get to tax the Saudis, Kaneman. It's not part of the US.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
This is even sadder - the major oil refineires buy their crude on long-term contract. The only major purchaser that buys crude on the spot market is China. But when the oil supplies are even assumed to have a potential to be affected by some possible change - it's that insane - the spot market zooms, and so of course does the price of gas, and heating oil, and even natural gas. How about that! Refiners charge the high cost of the spot market but pay on low-cost contract!
To give an even more telling example - Valero is THE refinery in the US specializing in refining sour heavy crude. Everyone else - BP/Arco, Chevron, Exxon/Mobil and the rest can only work with sweet light crude. It is sweet light crude that is quoted in the market and that is so expensive. Sour heavy crude doesn't cost much. Do you think Valero sells its gas adjusted to the cost of production ?
HA HA HA HA HA HA Ha ha ha ha ..... if you do.
COST doesn't drive how refiners and natural gas producers price their products.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
PLEASE look up basic information before you em-bare-ass yourself further!
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/twip/twip.asp
Shows the price of crude has dropped less than the price of gasoline.
http://oilceo.blogspot.com/2006/04/gasoline-days-of-inventory.html
Shows gasoline inventories and pump prices are not related.
"Saudi's ... have picked up production."
http://futures.fxstreet.com/Futures/content/100120/content.asp?menu=co
mmodities&dia=2692006
"The paper also points out that Saudi Arabia has been cutting output since the end of last year. That fact shows that the Saudi's will most likely not have a problem cutting back on output if called upon to do so. And if the Saudis cut then the rest of the cartel will most likely fall in line with what is asked of them which in some countries might not be much."
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
You're already seeing resistance to striking Iran from military folks and intelligence agencies. That's why the budget fiasco on Iraq, the report from 15 intelligence agencies saying Iraq was a mistake, and generals flat-out asking for Rummmie's head on a platter. They stuck to their remits on Iraq, and look where that got them. I think they're going as "all out" as a bureaucracy trained to obedience can go. (I trust I don't have to link this? If I do, let me know.)
There is deep internecine warfare going on between the CIA and the WH. The CIA has been basically dismantled. Why do you think "kneecapper" Armitage leaked Plame's name to the world? http://baltimorechronicle.com/2006/091406Parry.shtml Now the CIA is blind to Iran's plans. Armitage is NOT a bland bureaucrat. He was a point man in Vietnam and loved it. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/2021640.cms He's been breaking kneecaps ever since- AFAIK most recently in Pakistan. www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,215820,00.html
and was deeply involved in Iran Contra
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Armitage
It's not just the CIA, but every branch and bureacracy of govt. Just like the US "Revolutionary War". We already know the Iran-Contra narcoterror gang is back in the White House - which they never really left, since Clinton (Blythe Rockefeller) always worked for Bush Sr at the CIA's cocaine airline in Mena, Arkansas. Cathy O'Brien often saw the Bushes and Clintons sharing coke and prostitutes (Bush Sr often killed the little boys after raping them, since they were never seen again, according to Republican CIA Senator John DeCamp).
Too bad the patriotic politicians are now abandoning USA in disgust:
Quote:
Jesse Ventura Highlights Government Plan To Attack U.S. Cities & Kill Americans
TX guber candidate Kinky Friedman and dreadlocked Governor Mayor Assassin Jesse Ventura
Video Interview: Cites Northwoods, Gulf of Tonkin, JFK assassination, NORAD stand down as reasons to question official 9/11 story
=
In a sit-down video interview recorded on Monday night, former Minnesota Governor, pro-wrestling star and actor Jesse Ventura told radio host Alex Jones he found it very disturbing in light of what happened on 9/11 that the U.S. government had once planned to "attack certain cities within the United States," as a pretext for war.
Ventura was in Texas doing media events in support of independent Texas gubernatorial candidate Kinky Friedman. In this explosive interview Ventura sounds off on a number of controversial subjects and the direction in which America is heading.
"In the early sixties the Pentagon had an operation called Operation Northwoods and it never came to reality but it was on the table that our military would attack certain cities within the United States and make it look like Cuba did it to justify an invasion of Cuba," said Ventura.
Operation Northwoods:
www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/doc1.pdf
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662&page=1
www.emperors-clothes.com/images/north-8.htm
"It never happened but just the simple fact that they contemplated it and it was actually on the table in the Pentagon I find that just very disturbing - that they would even consider using our military to try to justify an invasion of another country."
Ventura, a former Navy Seal, then cited the Gulf of Tonkin cover-up as an example of how false provocations are staged by governments to lead nations into war.
"It was very disappointing to believe in your country that they would lie to you to get into a war - that they would perpetrate a lie and that the media would go along with it - it's a real eye opener and you realize that if they would do it in the sixties they'll do it again - and if it works once it will work again - government very much operates that way," said Ventura.
Ventura said that shortly aNOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by FellowTraveler:Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:
I thought it was already common knowledge that the Saudi's do not want Dems to win fearing higher taxes on energy, as a result have picked up production. I am pretty sure I heard this on NPR a couple weeks back. The price will rise again after the election, prompting screams of I told you so, because the north will begin to turn on their heaters. Hugo must be pissed.
We don't get to tax the Saudis, Kaneman. It's not part of the US.
I just looked it up, there is a concern among the Saudi's about Americans cutting back on usage when the price is above a certain threshold(that price was not mentioned..the dems proposed taxes were). The trade paper stated that 20,000+ Americans converted to wood pellet heaters last year, and they project 100,000 homes this year. We are THE huge customer for oil. Drug dealers know that a junkie can only spend so much before looking elsewhere. This did not even consider "alternative" sources of energy.
*edit* Americans = American homes
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Republicrats
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:
I just looked it up, there is a concern among the Saudi's about Americans cutting back on usage when the price is above a certain threshold(that price was not mentioned..the dems proposed taxes were). The trade paper stated that 20,000+ Americans converted to wood pellet heaters last year, and they project 100,000 homes this year. We are THE huge customer for oil. Drug dealers know that a junkie can only spend so much before looking elsewhere. This did not even consider "alternative" sources of energy.
*edit* Americans = American homes
China and India will happily take any oil that the US or the British don't. Oil is like drugs, you don't have to sell it. It sells itself...
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Thanks for the links Rue, here's what I got from them
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/twip/twip.asp
Quote:
Generally speaking, areas that are more isolated from sources of supply outside the region tend to see prices decline less than the national average in times of increased supply. Retail gasoline prices nationally have dropped in large measure due to increased supplies (as a result of high prices earlier in the summer) arriving at the same time as demand started falling for seasonal reasons.
Quote:
Whether retail prices on the West Coast and Rocky Mountain regions will see larger price declines than other areas in the weeks to come remains to be seen. Ultimately, local supply and demand conditions will be the key factor in determining how much of a decline will ultimately occur. Depending on where you live, you may have seen a larger or smaller decline than the national average. Nevertheless, everyone has seen a significant drop in retail gasoline prices, which is good news for consumers.
--------------------------------------------------
http://oilceo.blogspot.com/2006/04/gasoline-days-of-inventory.html
No quotes here, just a chart which shows a general trend of lower gas prices during times of higher inventories and vice versa.
--------------------------------------------------
http://futures.fxstreet.com/Futures/content/100120/content.asp?menu=co
mmodities&dia=2692006
Quote:
An OPEC cut might start taking supply off the market just as demand starts to rise. And then a few months down the road as demand rebounds prices will rise. Then we can start the whole price rise cycle once again. Sounds familiar doesn't it?
FellowTraveler,
Thanks for the links. I'm not to sure how to take the article which cites bloggers and Doug Henwood of Left Business Observer as their sources though.
Poor Bush, it was his fault when the price of gas was rising and now it's his fault that the price of gas is dropping more than it should be. Classic case of damned if you do, damned if you don't.
I personally am thrilled at the lowering price of gas and hope the trend continues.
Posting to stir stuff up.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
BDNothi ...Nobody,
Sigh ... Why do you persist in disinformation?
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/twip/twip.asp
If you LOOK at the charts you'll see that spot gas prices fell while crude stayed the same; that crude prices went up as crude stocks went up, and that gasoline prices went up simultaneously with gasoline stocks. There is no supply and demand pattern here.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/replymsg.asp?b=18&t=24230&m=386501
If you LOOK at this chart you'll notice that in Jan 03 there were 22 days of inventory and gasoline was US1.50/ gal, while currently there are 24.5 days of inventory and gas is US2.50/ gal. More gasoline inventory AND 67% higher prices ! Tell me, how do YOU explain that?
http://futures.fxstreet.com/Futures/content/100120/content.asp?menu=co
mmodities&dia=2692006
And this one actually does say what I said - it doesn't matter what the actual supply is, the spot price goes up and down on rumor.
Furthermore, you didn't address the VITAL fact that US refineries don't buy on the spot market, they buy on long-term contract. Your theory is bogus.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
You know, I work with people who've maintained all along there will be some huge event - something large enough to declare martial law and to claim authority to cancel elections. They've speculated dirty bombs, anthrax, assassination -
I personally don't hold with this, but it's interesting that highly educated people (people with science PhDs and political connections) do give this credit.
we might get an october surprise and we might not, I think the real planned surprise attack is going to happen for the 2008 elections , but I think its going to happen a few months before like 5 or six months
as for the coming elections I think they'll just keep doing what has currently been working for them, using the black box voting machines
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:I don't think that is the like you are looking for.
Originally posted by rue:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/replymsg.asp?b=18&t=24230&m=386501
If you LOOK at this chart you'll notice that in Jan 03 there were 22 days of inventory and gasoline was US1.50/ gal, while currently there are 24.5 days of inventory and gas is US2.50/ gal. More gasoline inventory AND 67% higher prices ! Tell me, how do YOU explain that?
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Yes, you're right. (Sometimes this site goes wonky and I have to re-access it 7 or 8 tmes in a single post. So I lose track of text at times.)
The link is here:
http://oilceo.blogspot.com/2006/04/gasoline-days-of-inventory.html
If you LOOK at this chart you'll notice that in Jan 03 there were 22 days of inventory and gasoline was US1.50/ gal, while currently there are 24.5 days of inventory and gas is US2.50/ gal. More gasoline inventory AND 67% higher prices ! Tell me, how do YOU explain that?
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I think we might have a winner for the October Surprise. There's a recently released tape showing several of the 9/11 terrorists (including bin Laden) that's starting to receive a lot of media attention. The timing seems just little too convenient to me. Republican child predator, Rep. Foley, had been all over the news, until this tape surfaced. That story is already beginning to lose some of its steam now. Also, this tape was sat on for the last five years, but all of a sudden it appears just a little more than a month before the elections. Wow! So, Republicans both deflect attention away from Foley and they divert the focus back towards terrorism and national security by politicizing the 9/11 terrorists. This shit so doesn't work on me, and I hope I'm not alone.
Buy the ticket. Take the ride.
-Hunter S. Thompson
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME