'Transgender'...Looking at National Geographic Magazine....
POSTED BY: JAYNEZTOWN
UPDATED: Thursday, June 29, 2023 15:37
VIEWED: 10945
PAGE 5 of 8
It's a little difficult to know what to make of America's current obsession with transgender identity.
I see it as yet another example of two things: liberal thought trying to identify another oppressed group to bring into the victim-hood for political gain, with conservative thought trying to exclude them as the reviled 'other' for political gain.
On the topic of gender roles -
Once an embryo is conceived, birthed as a baby, and suckled to the point of eating semi-solid food, nature is very tolerant about what they need in order to survive long enough to have children of their own. Look at the Spartans or the Tierra del Fuegians.
And even something as vital as suckling, warming, and minding an infant is subject to A LOT of variation in monkeys, for example. There are good monkey mothers, and bad monkey mothers, and in-between monkey mothers. Given all the variation in monkeys, which are not as behaviorally complex as humans - AND WHICH STILL MANAGE TO SURVIVE ANYWAY DESPITE NON-CONFORMANCE TO MOTHERHOOD BEHAVIORS - I'm not sure a case can be made that rigidly defined gender roles in humans are necessary for survival.
And too, people who don't conform to gender roles also can have valuable skill sets in other areas that contribute to group survival. I don't see that a group, with survival as its primary focus, would benefit by excluding those people and their efforts.
(I imagine it's similar to looking at economic organization of pre-monetary societies - it turns out that environment is NOT the driving force. Groups of people do things because that's what they tell themselves people do - and it's good enough to continue into the future.)
So overall, I don't see trying to enforce stereotyped gender roles as being necessary.
Though I think that a society that values its children - which are the society's future - will make it EASIER for nurturers to nurture.
How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?
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A transgender featuring on blogs, twitter already done interview on Lauren_Southern's show Rebel Media
I would argue that our society's obsession with making young children fit one or the other role at an early age is what's damaging.
I also find our insistence that little boys are born to prefer toy guns and cowboy hats while little girls are born to prefer dolls with long hair hilarious. Because that notion is ALREADY past its cultural expiration date. Now it's video games and social media. So the idea that somehow those particulars are XX and XY determined fell apart in 30 years.
How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?
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I'm always amazed how societies can muddle along in apparent chaos and dysfunction and keep on keeping on...
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Quote:
Originally posted by reaverfan:
It's pathetic watching the usual reichwingers here looking desperately for someone or something on which to spew their deep seated hate.
Quote:http://arstechnica.com/science/2014/02/science-confirms-online-trolls-
Why don't you pack up your hatred and fuck off?
are-horrible-people-also-sadists/
Science confirms: Online trolls are horrible people (also, sadists!)
New research out of Canada finds trolls are sadistic. Who knew?
How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?
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Quote:
uh oh.
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Gender and sexuality are not the same thing.Quote:
Or it's toxic malthusian koolaid mixed up by the Frankfurt School in the mid-20th c.
People whose psychological experience of their gender that differs to their genitalia can be found in cultures all over the world, often with much more acceptance
Yep, there have always been cross dressers and eunuchs. And slaves.
Why not just jump right to Shiva?
My point isn't to prove you wrong, but to point out that this is as dangerous as any you've ever heard of, and is condoning the torture and mutilation of children.
Think twice before you drink it. Quote:
Nor did they go extinct at all. Which is why Greenland is still part of Denmark.
Originally posted by 1kiki:
For example, the Vikings of Greenland didn't go extinct because they experienced cultural dissipation.
You're thinking of the Vinlanders in Nova Scotia. My sister wrote a book about this and I had an extensive correspondence on the subject with an arachaeologist in nova scotia. She explained it in detail, and it's fairly well known. The Vikings had intended to colonize Nova Scotia much more seriously than they had Greenland, and so they needed the support of agriculture to support the population. When the crops failed repeatedly, they returned to Europe, after much tension, negotiation and trade with the native americans.
What happened to them? Christianity. If they'd travelled south to the Carolinas, they could have re-encountered their gulf stream again, and had a serious head start on the spanish, and America would be a very different place.Quote:
basically, but more a desire not to. They had a ship that would take them back to europe in a few weeks, why risk another year of no crops and intermittent conflict with the locals.
If anything, it was their rigid adherence to the cultural norm of dairying, and an inability to adapt enough and take advantage of the seas' bounty, that did them in.Quote:
Oh, definitely. Rome was completely done for economically by the time the goths overthrew them.
If you look at Rome, what many people have pointed out is that the literal cost of maintaining an Empire did them in.Quote:
Yes, absolutely. It was their retirement package. and ours is killing us. I suspect a successful society has a structured valuable role for its elders rather than just moving those too old for manual labor to the side and making them into a burden. Doesn't matter how much the romans respected their elders, there wasn't really a positive place for them in their economic model. Particularly, soldiers pensions were very pricey, which made it advantageous to roman emperors to have them get rich or die trying, because either way they didn't end up a burned to Rome, so each soldier had to add enough land to pay for his own retirement, or not live to see it.
Their paradigm of 'expand or die' was intrinsically unsustainable.Quote:
first half i agree with. The right is actually right here. It doesn't exist. It's a made up thing. It doesn't bother me that much other than that I know it's moral relativism, and therefore intended to help us commit suicide as a society, because that's its stated goal.
Originally posted by 1kiki:
I see it as yet another example of two things: liberal thought trying to identify another oppressed group to bring into the victim-hood for political gain, with conservative thought trying to exclude them as the reviled 'other' for political gain.
It's this: When I was five, I wanted to be a rabbit. I'm sure glad no one cut my brain out and downsized it into a rabbit body because I was "born the wrong species." Because maybe that wasn't what was happening: Maybe I'd been given a lot of books about anthropomorphic rabbits and could tell in the stories that rabbits pretty much got to do whatever they liked. Quote:
nature is
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Sex-identifying sex organs (what sex is that cat)
Gender- masculine/feminine and depending of your acceptance level other categories - defined by society
Sexuality- attraction/ erotic orientation and experience
Gender- how they have found expression vary all throw culture and history - there have always been examples of men who dressed as women and women as men and those norms - what constitutes normal gendered behaviour have varied enormously.
Likewise same sex attraction is there throughout history, including Sparta, just different levels of tolerance.
Gender reassignment is relatively new as are the hormone therapy - yes I would err on the side of caution with these interventions for kids. Adults - I guess whatever really
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All I keep hearing is FEAR.
Fear, that children are being hurt, fear that we are pushing it on them, fear that it will be the down fall of a society....
MANY things cause the downfall of societies. Sitting around obsessing what will cause ours is POINTLESS. The cause will only be visible in hindsight.
From the stories I have read of Transgenders, most of the kids (AND PARENTS) have been thoroughly informed and had much therapy before it is undertaken. Also, at least half don't do full genital conversions until adulthood just to be sure.
So really, all we are talking about is hormones, boob jobs, shaving an Adam's apple... Kids have far far worse surgeries ALL THE TIME. Cancer, twin separations, internal surgeries, brain surgeries. You don't call THEM tortured or mutilated???
It sounds like some of you view a young childs' body in an almost purist form. Like if you change it they are somehow less??
It is still their body. They can still make decisions. You don't just suddenly realize you have a body when you turn 18. When children are born with severe birth defects they usually know from about age three that they are different, and seek to change it. We don't condemn parents for "fixing" those cosmetic issues because it DOES affect their psyche. We don't say "Oh, you'll be stronger in the long run for having cleft lip."
I don't see any difference with Trandgenders, other than their difference is in their BRAIN.
PS. Six I am not BACK. I will not engage in any political discussion here, as it is pointless. I do feel I have a unique point of view on THIS subject, as I am a female on the autism spectrum which studies say makes my brain more male oriented. And YES, if I was not married, I would have a MAJOR breast reduction. Boobs just get in the way, both physically, and in terms of how you are treated as a person. I really wish we were all hermaphrodites. Then maybe we could stop arguing for 30 seconds about shit that just don't matter....
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Quote:
Originally posted by DREAMTROVE:
I like you, I really do. I don't want to look under the hood here
That's great. You need to understand that that doesn't mean ANYTHING to me.
I never asked for anyone to like me and I feel forming attachments in a place like this is counterproductive and makes one sensor where they would not.
I have a feeling you have seen too many kids have surgeries for vanity reasons. Transgenderism is NOT the same thing. You would have to be in a different brain to understand. Imagine you woke up in the morning with the other gender, and were forced to feel like an alien every time YOU go in a public bathroom that isn't what you were yesterday. Some people could deal with that, some can't. Either way, not your call.
BTW, I also have female hereditary hirsutism. That's right, if I don't shave twice a day I can grow a BEARD.
I accept this is something I have to deal with, but I certainly DO NOT LIKE IT. If I could afford the unending laser treatments, I would do so. Some women actually like it. No one in my husbands family even knows, and neither would people on the street, but it is still there.
Doesn't mean ANYONE but me has a say in how I deal with it.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
forming attachments in a place like this is counterproductive
Nah, I've met a lot of great people here. Quote:
I have a feeling you have seen too many kids have surgeries for vanity reasons.
Nope. I have seen a lot of disabled people, including my sister and some close friends and relatives. It's very painful for them to watch people without physical problems create problems for themselves. and when I say that, I mean people are way underestimating the difficulties here. It's not emotional, or feelings, it's a life perspective of the disabled.Quote:
shave twice a day
And I don't. High estogen levels. And I was a fashion major.
So maybe there is something to it.
but I said that this wasn't my problem. If you place children in this situation, they have no rights of their own. Someone, a parent, a doctor, a legal guardian, who might be the state, will make that decision for them.
To me, ushering back in the eunuch goes right in line with our re-adoption of torture and slavery. It's hard to see how people can't see what's happening. The power that be never really step in and do something for your rights. They have no interest whatsoever in what's good for you. They're only interested in weapons. And they're interested in this. That worries me.
Stay Shiny
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Quote:
Originally posted by DREAMTROVE:
Nope. I have seen a lot of disabled people, including my sister and some close friends and relatives. It's very painful for them to watch people without physical problems create problems for themselves. and when I say that, I mean people are way underestimating the difficulties here. It's not emotional, or feelings, it's a life perspective of the disabled.
HELLOOO? I had arthritis and severe intestinal issues at 24? What does that have to do with anything? I'm happy they have options other than prostitution, which is what happened to most of them historically.
ANYONE having ANY surgery is at risk of having a complication just as they are also as likely to NOT have any and be completely happy with it.
Trans people aren't CREATING problems, their own neurobiology created the problem. I think you are saying they should just ignore it and it will go away, and that isn't even REMOTELY the case. Many untreated Trans kids KILL themselves, so evidently it IS a problem for them.
NO ONE if forcing kids to be Trans, the kids ASK FOR IT. They know they are different somehow.
I don't even get where you are coming from here...
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