'Transgender'...Looking at National Geographic Magazine....
POSTED BY: JAYNEZTOWN
UPDATED: Thursday, June 29, 2023 15:37
VIEWED: 10945
PAGE 2 of 8
Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
You pay the price for the things YOU do. These kids didn't DO anything to be born different.
Try this one
story still develops
A transgender featuring on blogs, twitter already done interview on Lauren_Southern's show Rebel Media
https://twitter.com/MsBlaireWhite/status/810179471882022913
A case of abuse? and mommy making money directly from the abused kids?
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
THE DIFFERENCE IS....... THEY DIDN"T DO IT TO THEMSELVES BY BEING A "GENIUS" AND SMOKING AND DRINKING THEMSELVES STUPID.
That's absolutely beside the point Wish.
In the long run, it's the insurance companies who will be paying a lot more for this. $10-$15k oral surgery right now, or quite a bit more later when I need heart surgery. It doesn't matter what I do now. If I don't have the surgery or have all of my teeth removed and replaced with dentures, I will end up very ill. Neither of those options are even close to affordable to me right now, and they are both considered "cosmetic" work because it's in my mouth.
It doesn't matter how I got where I got. The facts are that health insurance will pay for traumatic surgeries once you get past the deductible, and as long as I'm no HIP, there isn't any deductible. Just another example of the inefficiency and lack of foresight on the part of our government is all.
And BTW... Isn't that why they kept raising the taxes on cigarettes? To pay for the healthcare that smokers would eventually need? At least that's how they sold it to us when they were raising it.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:So why refer mostly to children? Aren't adults people, too?
I think you are painting with a pretty big brush. And I am mostly referring to children.
Quote:Having a child with an unusual dx, and knowing many of her classmates, I would say that the accommodations help pass kids thru the school system, but aren't enough to help the students become functional adults. The school system and the teachers say that they teach, but they don't do therapy (like "Visualizing and Verbalizing" or "LISP") but sometimes therapy IS the only way to "teach".
They get plenty of educational accommodations. Mine got special allowances for testing and time and electronics.
Quote:uh huh. "Enough for" what? To become a functional adult? To acquire a real education? To feel comfortable in school?
That's what I'm referring to. ADD and Aspergers and Dyslexia and Bi-polar and dozens of other disorders ARE accommodated. Maybe not to your standards, but enough for many kids.
Quote:Seeing as autism has an accelerating incidence rate, maybe society and the school system better figure out a way towards better therapy.
And there are many adult vocational programs as well. There is a limit to how much therapy is practical for someone who won't ever be a productive member of society, no matter how much you care for them.
Quote:If my child is extremely unhappy, I'm unhapppy. But would I subject her or him to irreversible treatment to accommodate his or her unhappiness??
I'm sure if your kid was transgender and was constantly trying to commit suicide because every time they looked down they felt as if their body was hijacked by an alien, you might see things differently.
No.
And I can say that as a fact, because we were offered the option of radical neurosurgery for our child, and we (fortunately) refused. SIMPLY BECAUSE the surgery was irreversible. And I would say that this even was a a very direct comparison, because just as there is a claimed developmental window of oppty for gender reassignment, there is also a claimed developmental window of oppty for neurosurgery.
So, let me put it this way: IF child is extremely frustrated that they aren't a duck, do we accommodate that delusion? And why not?
Quote:If transgenders are functioning BEFORE reassignment, why does society and medical insurance intervene?
And Transgenders can be functioning members of society, so I think the cost is justified in the long run...
Not that I don't feel a great deal of sympathy for transgenders, but I question the allocation of pooled resources to medically accommodating a problem of "agita" when people are (literally) dying for lack of medical care.
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"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake
"If you aren't aware, Texans don't have much concern for the well-being of Yankees or Californians, even Yankee factory workers in Indiana "- SECOND
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Just to get back to the stated topic of the thread "So who has lead to America's social decline?" you have to assume that there was a "society" to begin with, and you have to have a specific model of important features so that you can chart significant trends.
So, as always, I guess I have to say that this needs further definition.
Many liberals don't even accept that "America" does - or should- exist. They are so guilt-ridden by the sins of the past and present, that rather than allow the concept of "America" to exist and then fighting for a better America to emerge, they negate the concept altogether. To them, America a patchwork of victimized sub-cultures and the only subculture which SHOULDN'T receive any consideration is white Xtian male.
Another tenet of American "society" is the primacy of individualism: each on his or her own private bender, each on his or her own path to individual happiness. Progressive atomization, which is the antithesis of society.
Perhaps what the title implies is the fragmentation of our common ethics (if we had any such commonality).
I would probably frame the issue not so much as a problem of "decline" but a problem of survival, and to me that problem is economic, social, and political.
A society is like any organism: It has a life of its own. If it can't reproduce itself, both physically and organizationally, then that society has a serious problem. I would discuss this issue in terms of survivability and sustainability (long-term survival). That would be my approach.
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"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake
"If you aren't aware, Texans don't have much concern for the well-being of Yankees or Californians, even Yankee factory workers in Indiana "- SECOND
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Quote:Signym, your approach is too fucking abstract for fireflyfans.net. Instead, try the one-bad-break test. The test tells a lot about a society by what happens when its economically vulnerable members encounter a majorly bad break. That bad break can be anything — an injury, the sudden need to take in and care for an ailing relative, an unexpected layoff — and the effects of a single bad break vary tremendously depending on who you are, what state you live, and what resources you have access to. Rich people hit bad breaks too, but they generally have far more resources to handle them than everyone else.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
A society is like any organism: It has a life of its own. If it can't reproduce itself, both physically and organizationally, then that society has a serious problem. I would discuss this issue in terms of survivability and sustainability (long-term survival). That would be my approach.
In societies that function well, there are various safety nets in place to prevent a bad break from leading to a tailspin for particularly vulnerable victims. Compared to many other rich nations, the U.S. is not such a society — all too often, when vulnerable Americans encounter a bad break, there’s nothing underneath them to stop their slide. Instead, devastation follows, sometimes in the form of bankruptcy and addiction and death.
For a particularly painful example of the one-bad-break test in action, take Inara Verzemnieks’s wrenching New York Times story about “Life in Obamacare’s Dead Zone” — that is, the Republican-controlled states that turned down the Obamacare-trigger Medicaid expansion after the Supreme Court ruled they had the right to do so in 2012 (19 states did so in total, and the illness and death toll of this missed opportunity to cover vulnerable populations is staggering to think about).
The story continues at http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2016/12/america-is-failing-the-bad-break-
test-and-people-are-dying.html
Quote:Rather than mocking this in your signature, Signym, prove that it is false. I will make it easier for you. Prove that there ever was a time in the past when it was false. You won't be able to do it with facts, because state governments are not charitable toward the citizens of other states. Some states in the old Confederacy aren't even charitable toward their own citizens. By the way, so you don't get confused, that doesn't mean that nobody in the old Confederate states gives to charity.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
"If you aren't aware, Texans don't have much concern for the well-being of Yankees or Californians, even Yankee factory workers in Indiana "- SECOND
I am waiting for your proof, Signym.
One example from one state toward another does not count as proof, Signym. It is simple to prove that the Federal Government hands out charity every week to the needy in the states. Give me some proof that there are states that follow the Federal example in handling charity toward other states.
And if you dare come back with the states are just receiving back what they paid in Federal Taxes, you are nuts. South Carolina receives $7.87 back from Washington for every $1 its citizens pay in federal tax and receives $0.00 from the other 49 states. South Carolina is the stingiest state toward its own citizens. The Federal government partially makes up the difference, but nowhere near enough.
www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/05/which-states-are-givers-a
nd-which-are-takers/361668/
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The irony here is that we're thinking of moving our Indiana factory working butts to Texas. 
Also, Indiana was a border state to the Mason-Dixon so half of the people here think of themselves as Yankees, and many of these redneck idiots still talk about their "Southern Pride." Most couldn't SPELL Mason-Dixon...
I think Sig and Jack are doing a lotta bitchin' about "the government doesn't do enough, wahhh wahhh."
The government has a limited duty to make you an adult, it organizes education, but there is no way it should be responsible for the myriad of things involved in adulthood. I guess if you care for someone with issues YOU should help, and if you don't then...they'll just have to figure it out on their own...or not...But, hello???? ....ADULT. Not my problem. Not the gov'ts problem. You had your chance as a teen to get it figured out!
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So, let me put it this way: IF child is extremely frustrated that they aren't a duck, do we accommodate that delusion? And why not?
Not that I don't feel a great deal of sympathy for transgenders, but I question the allocation of pooled resources to medically accommodating a problem of "agita" when people are (literally) dying for lack of medical care.
I see that all the time, and it is STILL one of the dumbest analogies on the internet. We have the tech to make a kid pretty much pass for another gender, we don't have the tech to make them pass for a DUCK. But hey, if the kid wants to wear yellow and walk around quacking, GO FOR IT. There actually ARE groups of animist people who DO walk around pretending to be dogs, cats, whatever. AND, there are a couple of wealthy people who actually feed and protect them while they do it, I've seen the documentary.Also, in my experience, many Trans people here have their operations donated by sympathetic docs, or they wait until they can finance it themselves. The number of Trans kids is not that many, so I don't think they are that big a drain on the system anyway... But they ARE known to commit suicide if they don't get it... A few surgeries for a life? I got no problems if it keeps kids from killing themselves. Surprised YOU do...
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Quote:I don't think so. JAYNEZTOWN is heading in the direction of societal survival already.
A society is like any organism: It has a life of its own. If it can't reproduce itself, both physically and organizationally, then that society has a serious problem. I would discuss this issue in terms of survivability and sustainability (long-term survival). That would be my approach.= SIGNY
Signym, your approach is too fucking abstract for fireflyfans.net.
I've heard of similar studies of dying cultures which tend to have "outbreaks" of hyper-focus on sex and food and entertainment. Maybe societies which focuses on the lowest common denominator- bread and circuses - are already circling the drain?
Quote:You're assuming that societies need to focus on the welfare of each individual in order to survive, but that's not true. Look at Sparta - "one bad break" could mean not surviving your first day as a newborn out in the cold. http://www.historywiz.com/didyouknow/spartanfamily.htm Now, one could say that the Spartan society didn't survive, but then again, in the long run, neither did the Athenian society. Modern Taliban society survives by using women as baby-factories. So there are a lot of societies which survive well enough, although they're societies that we probably wouldn't want to live in.
Instead, try the one-bad-break test. The test tells a lot about a society by what happens when its economically vulnerable members encounter a majorly bad break.- In societies that function well, there are various safety nets in place to prevent a bad break from leading to a tailspin for particularly vulnerable victims.
Quote:I'm not mocking it SECOND, I'm merely quoting it.
"If you aren't aware, Texans don't have much concern for the well-being of Yankees or Californians, even Yankee factory workers in Indiana "- SECOND
Rather than mocking this in your signature, Signym, prove that it is false.- SECOND
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"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake
"If you aren't aware, Texans don't have much concern for the well-being of Yankees or Californians, even Yankee factory workers in Indiana "- SECOND
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Quote:This fits in with my hubby's contention that those wish to break social mores are the people who are in echelons of power.
So, let me put it this way: IF child is extremely frustrated that they aren't a duck, do we accommodate that delusion? And why not? Not that I don't feel a great deal of sympathy for transgenders, but I question the allocation of pooled resources to medically accommodating a problem of "agita" when people are (literally) dying for lack of medical care- SIGNY
Apparently gender reassignment surgery is not the total answer to gender dysphoria, because according to a study by the Karolinska institute people who have had gender reassignment are about 20X more likely to attempt suicide than "cis" (same-born) gender. The study didn't compare gender dysphorics who DIDN'T have surgery and their suicide rate as compared to those did, so it's difficult to tell whether surgery is "better" than not, but it's easy to tell that it's still not good. http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.00168
85
Pediatricians weigh in as follows:
Quote:
When an otherwise healthy biological boy believes he is a girl, or an otherwise healthy biological girl believes she is a boy, an objective psychological problem exists that lies in the mind not the body, and it should be treated as such.
https://www.acpeds.org/the-college-speaks/position-statements/gender-i
deology-harms-children
You compared gender dysphoria to OCD. Do we treat OCD with surgery?
Quote:I would not want to impose a near-irreversible decision on a child who is an otherwise functional (ie. not ill or disabled) person who is simply not old enough to make that decision for themselves. I think the best thing to do is acknowledge how the child feels, and offer non-permanent interim strategies, along with the information that permanent changes can be accessed later, when the child is of-age.
Also, in my experience, many Trans people here have their operations donated by sympathetic docs, or they wait until they can finance it themselves. The number of Trans kids is not that many, so I don't think they are that big a drain on the system anyway... But they ARE known to commit suicide if they don't get it... A few surgeries for a life? I got no problems if it keeps kids from killing themselves. Surprised YOU do...
-----------
"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake
"If you aren't aware, Texans don't have much concern for the well-being of Yankees or Californians, even Yankee factory workers in Indiana "- SECOND
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It's pathetic watching the usual reichwingers here looking desperately for someone or something on which to spew their deep seated hate.
Give it a rest, hatriots. Those bad, evil transgender folks aren't trying to hurt you, so why don't you pack up your hatred and fuck off?
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