IMF to Kiev - fight for eastern Ukraine or die
POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Tuesday, June 2, 2026 17:17
VIEWED: 24929
PAGE 18 of 21
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
4 pages of jerkoffmanship
Please don't say the biggest dick won.
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MIKER
Quote:A whole paragraph, and not one realistic thought! A majority of Ukrainians are tired of corruption? That's why the voted for Yanukovych! They were tired of Yulia Tymoshenko, the Orange Revolutionary who made such a bad deal with Russia that the Ukraine has been hemorrhaging money ever since! "They" didn't want better ties to the west, SOME OF THEM did.
You are confusing business with covert operations. A majority of Ukrainians are tired of the corruption and living in poverty due to putting Russia first. They want better. To do this they recognized they need better ties to the EU and WEST.
MIKER, your knowledge of history and current events is pathetic. How did you have such a well-connected cousin and live so many years and learn nothing?
M52
You keep repeating, over and over again as if it was some sort of truth, that Yanukovych was responsible for killing scores of people. And yet... (from AP)
Quote:As much of an outrage as it was, and as tempting as it is to blame the event on someone ... ANYONE... the reality is that nobody has really figured out WHO was behind the snipers. But apparently, even the Kiev government finds Yanukovych to be an less probable suspect. So dial down the outrage, it's misdirected!
One of the biggest mysteries hanging over the protest mayhem that drove Ukraine’s president from power: Who was behind the snipers who sowed death and terror in Kiev?.... Ukrainian authorities are investigating the Feb. 18-20 bloodbath, and they have shifted their focus from ousted President Viktor Yanukovych’s government - [because he probably wasn't at fault- SIGNY] to Vladimir Putin’s Russia — pursuing the theory that the Kremlin was intent on sowing mayhem as a pretext for military incursion. Russia suggests that the snipers were organized by opposition leaders trying to whip up local and international outrage against the government.
The government’s new health minister — a doctor who helped oversee medical treatment for casualties during the protests — told The Associated Press that the similarity of bullet wounds suffered by opposition victims and police indicates the shooters were trying to stoke tensions on both sides and spark even greater violence, with the goal of toppling Yanukovych.
“I think it wasn’t just a part of the old regime that (plotted the provocation), but it was also the work of Russian special forces who served and maintained the ideology of the (old) regime,” Health Minister Oleh Musiy said.
Also, if I'm categorically wrong about the UN vote, so is MIKER. And if you want to figure out who is "closer"- I was off by 3%, MIKER was off by 47%. IMHO, you're TRYING to be objective, but you're still not. But- nice try. At least you didn't descend into the pigpen with Jongsstraw and MikeR so- good on ya.
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Quote:A whole paragraph, and not one realistic thought! A majority of Ukrainians are tired of corruption? That's why the voted for Yanukovych! They were tired of Yulia Tymoshenko, the Orange Revolutionary who made such a bad deal with Russia that the Ukraine has been hemorrhaging money ever since! "They" didn't want better ties to the west, SOME OF THEM did.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
MIKERQuote:You are confusing business with covert operations. A majority of Ukrainians are tired of the corruption and living in poverty due to putting Russia first. They want better. To do this they recognized they need better ties to the EU and WEST.
MIKER, your knowledge of history and current events is pathetic. How did you have such a well-connected cousin and live so many years and learn nothing?
M52
You keep repeating, over and over again as if it was some sort of truth, that Yanukovych was responsible for killing scores of people. And yet... (from AP)
Quote:As much of an outrage as it was, and as tempting as it is to blame the event on someone ... ANYONE... the reality is that nobody has really figured out WHO was behind the snipers. But apparently, even the Kiev government finds Yanukovych to be an less probable suspect. So dial down the outrage, it's misdirected!
One of the biggest mysteries hanging over the protest mayhem that drove Ukraine’s president from power: Who was behind the snipers who sowed death and terror in Kiev?.... Ukrainian authorities are investigating the Feb. 18-20 bloodbath, and they have shifted their focus from ousted President Viktor Yanukovych’s government - [because he probably wasn't at fault- SIGNY] to Vladimir Putin’s Russia — pursuing the theory that the Kremlin was intent on sowing mayhem as a pretext for military incursion. Russia suggests that the snipers were organized by opposition leaders trying to whip up local and international outrage against the government.
The government’s new health minister — a doctor who helped oversee medical treatment for casualties during the protests — told The Associated Press that the similarity of bullet wounds suffered by opposition victims and police indicates the shooters were trying to stoke tensions on both sides and spark even greater violence, with the goal of toppling Yanukovych.
“I think it wasn’t just a part of the old regime that (plotted the provocation), but it was also the work of Russian special forces who served and maintained the ideology of the (old) regime,” Health Minister Oleh Musiy said.
Also, if I'm categorically wrong about the UN vote, so is MIKER. And if you want to figure out who is "closer"- I was off by 3%, MIKER was off by 47%. IMHO, you're TRYING to be objective, but you're still not. But- nice try. At least you didn't descend into the pigpen with Jongsstraw and MikeR so- good on ya.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26868119
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
It seems clear to me that the USA, the EU, and NATO are doing everything they can to provoke a war with Russia. This includes providing political cover and cookies and photo-ops with John McCain for Ukraine’s neo-Nazis, personally insulting Putin, breaking negotiated agreements with Russia, endlessly threatening sanctions, and lying in the press (with fake photos, fake flyers, and false reports).
The latest entry into the “provoke a war” campaign is the IMF. The IMF seems intent on pitting Ukraine into a death-match with Russia by threatening their loan status: Fight, or else your loan conditions will be ‘renegotiated’. Since Ukraine’s economy is hanging on ONLY by this thread, the IMF’s statement is an existential threat to the Kiev government.
At this juncture, there’s no point in trying to figure who is behind all this. With the entry of the IMF (and for all I know, the remainder of the troika: the European Commission and the European Central Bank ECB) into the fray, this is clearly a well-coordinated plan, with the USA and the EU and the IMF alternately taking turns to push the project forward, creating no discernable division of interest between them.
Until recently, the Kiev government has been reluctant to mobilize its army because the army itself is probably divided; there have been reports of “security forces” defecting to the east. Instead, the Kiev government has been trying to create citizen militias… pro-Nazi groups and other irregular forces to take the place of the army.
Since the IMF has threatened to renegotiate the loan status, Turchinov, the unelected President of Kiev… oops, I mean Ukraine… has reinstated the draft. I can't imagine what liberal pro-western Ukrainians are thinking now... "Doubled gas prices? Halved pensions? And now the draft???"
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Ukraine unrest: Kiev 'helpless' to quell parts of east
Ukraine's acting President Olexander Turchynov has admitted his forces are "helpless" to quell unrest driven by pro-Russian activists in the eastern regions of Donetsk and Luhansk. Mr Turchynov said the goal was now to prevent the unrest spreading.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27222023
Ukraine crisis: Russian flags fill May Day rally
Thousands of protesters carrying Russian flags filled the street of Donetsk on Friday, as part of a May Day rally.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27241740
IM F : $17 bn loan would need overhaul if Ukraine loses east
The IMF says its just-announced $17 billion rescue program for Ukraine would have to be overhauled if the country loses control of the economically important eastern region to pro-Russian separatists.
https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/imf-17-bn-loan-overhaul-164648824.ht
ml
Ukraine crisis: Kiev reinstates conscription
Ukraine's acting President Olexander Turchynov has reinstated military conscription to deal with deteriorating security in the east of the country. The move, announced in a decree, came as pro-Russia militants seized the regional prosecutor's office in the eastern city of Donetsk.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27247428
b]
Posted by Miker in response:
Here is a quote from the first link you provided as proof of your delusion that the US and EU are instigating things in the Ukraine.
"The acting president of Ukraine said that the tens of thousands of Russian troops stationed just over the border meant that "the threat of Russia starting a war against mainland Ukraine is real". Russia, which annexed the Crimea region from Ukraine last month, has said it has no plans to invade the east". Annexed means invaded and stole in this case. Did the US and EU goad Russia into that. I am sure you can cut and paste far out opinions about that but it would still be bull.
The BBC article says nothing about The US or EU being responsible for this crises, only how they have offered support t
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Here you go G, this is reporting on Russia troop involvements in Russia going back to March. I'd say 12,000 along with the twenty thousand in Crimea constitutes an invasion.
The Kremlin has denied its forces are directly involved in combat, but the latest estimate by US Lt Gen Ben Hodges, commander of the US Army in Europe, says 12,000 Russian troops are operating inside the neighbouring country.
As the conflict there has worn, on this intervention has become increasingly hard to hide, growing bigger, with more advanced weapons, and capturing more territory for the nominal "separatist army".
The Russian army determined a change in the way it would use force across the border, forming composite units of volunteers from a variety of garrisons and units so their identity would be harder to prove
The evidence of the Kremlin's direct military involvement can be gleaned
from many different types of sources:
?Russian mainstream and social media
?reporters on the ground
?Ukrainian media
?analysis of freely available satellite imagery by citizen journalists
?information released by the US and its Nato allies
For those distrustful of the Pentagon or Western intelligence agencies, you can set their information entirely aside.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31794523
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Quote:
Originally posted by G:Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Here you go G, this is reporting on Russia troop involvements in Russia going back to March. I'd say 12,000 along with the twenty thousand in Crimea constitutes an invasion.
Yes, even Putin couldn't hide invading Crimea. Couldn't even hide it by removing their insignias. What an entertaining, dangerous clown.
Dangerous and warped. Forget about the troops in Crimea, could you imagine the United States having 12,000 troops fighting in a foreign country and denying it. Who would we be fooling, no one. Same with Putin but he keeps saying it isn't so.
Clown or...
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US Lt Gen Ben Hodges, commander of the US Army in Europe, says 12,000 Russian troops are operating inside Ukraine. that's a spectacular claim.
What does the BBC present as evidence in its article?
The article goes on to CLAIM various sources for the information, but the only link is on 'latest estimate' which leads to a story with a link on 'satellite imagery' which leads to a website of amateur image analysis claiming 1,000 troops crossed the border back in August, 2014.
http://thehigherlearning.com/2014/08/28/1000-russian-troops-have-cross
ed-into-ukraine-along-with-tanks-and-heavy-armor/
a link on 'new assessment' which provides zero evidence for its claims https://www.rusi.org/downloads/assets/201503_BP_Russian_Forces_in_Ukra
ine_FINAL.pdf.
a link about 10 captured soldiers from August, 2014 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28934213
and a link on 'committed specialists' which talks about 'small numbers' of specialists. http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/02/04/us-ukraine-crisis-nato-usa-i
dUSKBN0L81S220150204
The CLAIMS are about 12,000 Russian soldiers currently in Ukraine. The CURRENT evidence is zero.
The evidence is underwhelming.
Can you say 'echo chamber'? Sure you can.
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Huh, THUGR actually posted something relevant to himself.
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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.
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I followed 1kiki's link and this is what I found. Let me be clear, this is 1kiki's link.
Mykhailo Lysenko, the deputy commander of the Ukrainian battalion in the Donbas region of eastern Ukraine, called Russia’s incursion, “…a full scale invasion.”
Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk was a bit more direct, saying,
“Vladimir Putin has purposely started a war in Europe. It is impossible to hide from the fact.”
The United States has been wary about pointing the finger at Russia since this whole conflict began, but it seems that the U.S. is no longer mincing its words.
Geoffrey Pyatt, the U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine, used his Twitter account to echo the reports coming from the U.S. State Department. Among his many tweets, Pyatt said,
“Russian-supplied tanks, armored vehicles, artillery and multiple rocket launchers have been insufficient to defeat Ukraine’s armed forces, so now an increasing number of Russian troops are intervening directly in the fighting on Ukrainian territory…
“Russia has also sent its newest air defense systems including the SA-22 into eastern Ukraine and is now directly involved in the fighting.”
http://thehigherlearning.com/2014/08/28/1000-russian-troops-have-cross
ed-into-ukraine-along-with-tanks-and-heavy-armor/
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Called ... saying ... tweets ... and a 'photo' of unknown provenance 'analyzed' on an amateur website - yeah, that's evidence! Not.
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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