IMF to Kiev - fight for eastern Ukraine or die
POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Tuesday, June 2, 2026 17:17
VIEWED: 24929
PAGE 15 of 21
"if the government in place stops representing the people"
What's wrong with having a democratic election to decide if they want a new government - so that ALL people - not just the people with guns - can have their say?
I agree with Signy - you're REALLY not for democracy. In fact, you're against it. You CHOOSE government by armed groups in a coup, even when a democratic process is in place.
OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."
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Not even close, I am on the side of democracy. You forget, that is America. It is Russia that is not a democracy. The cause you champion in your posts is all against the new Ukrainian government. Just like Russia. Which suggests you believe in what Russia believes in and not what the United States is trying to do by helping.
In a democracy the people rule. If the government doesn't abide by that then the people have the right to throw the government out. This happens if the government doesn't abide by the will of the people and constitution.
This is what happened in the Ukraine. How about you two spend some time criticizing Russia in its role in all of this and prove me wrong. There have been many posts criticizing America, NATO, and the EU.
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"I am on the side of democracy."
Then find me ONE of your posts where you supported early elections as a democratic solution to the problem of Yanukovych. Just one.
"The cause you champion in your posts is all against the new Ukrainian government."
What I've been championing is democracy. Government through the process of election, not coup.
"If the government doesn't abide by that then the people have the right to throw the government out."
Yes, ALL the people COULD have had a chance to vote and decide. But that's not good enough for you.
Anyway, by your bad English I presume you're a plant.
OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."
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Quote:Oh, you mean an oligarchy?
You forget, that is America.
So, by your logic... would you favor a revolution in the USA?
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
You don't believe in democracy or freedom, MIKER, you believe in capitalism.
They're one in the same, actually.
And far better at helping the poor than socialism ever was or will be.
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
"I am on the side of democracy."
Then find me ONE of your posts where you supported early elections as a democratic solution to the problem of Yanukovych. Just one.
"The cause you champion in your posts is all against the new Ukrainian government."
What I've been championing is democracy. Government through the process of election, not coup.
"If the government doesn't abide by that then the people have the right to throw the government out."
Yes, ALL the people COULD have had a chance to vote and decide. But that's not good enough for you.
Anyway, by your bad English I presume you're a plant.
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I can't, you see I understand there was no way to pull that off. If it could have been done I would have been all for it. The problem is trying to have an election in the middle of a revolution. Can't be done.
As for my bad English O well, I guess I will have to stand on the strength of my speaking prose. Look it up.
Also I don't like the way you intertwine what you are saying with what I am saying. Let my words stand alone please as I do yours.
I would add it is stupid to have the same logos pop up in serious talks over and over again. It is kind of childish, don't you think?
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:Oh, you mean an oligarchy?
You forget, that is America.
So, by your logic... would you favor a revolution in the USA?
Yes, yes, I agree with you on this. Again I offer my link: http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/jan/20/oxfam-85-richest-peopl
e-half-of-the-world
The University of, I can't remember just came out with a research paper on this confirming what you say. However we can't revolt because it is against the law.
This is also not the topic of the thread.
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AUTHOR: Benjamin Franklin (1706–90)
QUOTATION: “Well, Doctor, what have we got—a Republic or a Monarchy?”
“A Republic, if you can keep it.”
http://www.bartleby.com/73/1593.html
Off topic but what the hell.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
M52-Quote:MIKER said "the whole world except Russia". Not "most of the world" or "the majority" but "the whole world except Russia". He says that because it makes him feel superior to think that everyone except Russia is on "his side". But MIKER was categorically wrong in his statment. That's what happens when people make global statements like "everyone", "always", "never", and "the whole world"... there are bound to be exceptions, and MIKER didn't account for a whole lot of them... apparently didn't even know about them.
Miker was a lot closer in his statement than SIGNYM was in hers. So Miker was not right in what he said.
So, to clarify, the whole world is NOT in "his side", specifically ... out of
193 member states
100 voted for
93 either voted against, abstained, or didn't vote.
In other words, it was 50/50. Which is what I said. So YOU better go a recalculate what YOU think of as 50/50, because the facts don't back you up, either.
OF the 93 nations which either voted no, abstained, or didn't vote, I find these interesting-
BRAZIL, CHINA, EGYPT, INDIA, PAKISTAN (India and Pakistan on the same side?), SOUTH AFRICA, IRAN, ISRAEL (Israel and Iran on the same side? I think Israel just doesn't like Neo-Nazis), OMAN and UNITED ARAB EMIRATES (you would think oil payments would be the tie that binds).
You can find the vote tally here
http://unbisnet.un.org:8080/ipac20/ipac.jsp?profile=voting&index=.
VM&term=ares68262
AFA Yanukovich "abandoning" his post, he stated FROM THE UKRAINE that he hadn't abandoned his post. And there is nothing that I could find in the Constitution about "abandon", "unable" (as in, "unable to perform duties") or anything else, so if you could please reference the subsection which allows such an action by the Rada, I would appreciate it.
Do you really fear the ignorance of man? Maybe what you should really fear is the "rationalizing" man... a person who twists facts to suit his or her own purposes.
You said...
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
And this is where I replied that you should recalibrate what you think of as "the whole world" since China, India, Brazil, and more than half of the remainder of the world's nations either voted against the USA or abstained in the UN.
More than half is what you said, and it turns out it was not even half. Plus non-votes does not mean they did not agree.
As for Parliaments actions I would think they fall under this...
Article 91.
Supreme Soviet of Ukraine passes acts, decisions and other acts by majority from its constitutional composition, except for the cases foreseen by this
Constitution.
The Ukraine Constitution did not foresee the position the Parliament found themselves in and thus had the power to act.
I never figured you would be defending a person whom used lethal force against protesters. You dislike for the US government and the IMF has put you in a strange place.
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
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Quote:
Originally posted by m52nickerson:Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
M52-Quote:MIKER said "the whole world except Russia". Not "most of the world" or "the majority" but "the whole world except Russia". He says that because it makes him feel superior to think that everyone except Russia is on "his side". But MIKER was categorically wrong in his statment. That's what happens when people make global statements like "everyone", "always", "never", and "the whole world"... there are bound to be exceptions, and MIKER didn't account for a whole lot of them... apparently didn't even know about them.
Miker was a lot closer in his statement than SIGNYM was in hers. So Miker was not right in what he said.
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
Miker
I care about the thread topic. How about you give that a look see OK?
I am interested in your opinion about that. QUOTE: SIGMYM "It seems clear to me that the USA, the EU, and NATO are doing everything they can to provoke a war with Russia. This is the opening statement from the person who started the thread. Let's here from you on this, I am looking forward to it.
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