Another 'Religion of Peace' moment, brought to you by.....yep, ISLAM!
POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Wednesday, February 12, 2025 15:05
VIEWED: 23038
PAGE 19 of 25
RiverL, I was not dismissive of you, but of the article and video. I don’t have to read the article to know what it says. Merely “But because a comeuppance is due the arrogant elites whose undisguised contempt for the great unwashed prevents them from conceding a modicum of serious thought to those who dare oppose them." is sufficient to tell me it’s going to be the usual buzz words and talking points. You’ve heard the same sort of slurs from the left, surely you dismiss them out of hand? I understand your hatred of everything left and what you think of us; I don’t feel the same toward the right, but you’re entitled to your opinion. Nonetheless, there is no reason I need to READ that kind of stuff, any more than you would choose to read the kind of insanity lefty extremists write.
What you don’t get is that I wouldn’t read its equivalent from the LEFT, either, same reason I don’t watch that stupid “Joe Show” or whatever it is...oh, got it, “Ed Show”. I dismiss extremists and slander from BOTH sides as just what it is; pandering to the base in the worst possible way. “arrogant elitists”, “great unwashed”, “undisguised contempt”, "modicum of serious thought"...they say it all.
As for the video, you don’t get it: I DON’T LIKE ISLAM, I abhor what those in power within it have done what they have done to it. I HATE some of the tenants of Islam AS IT IS PRACTICED CURRENTLY. That has nothing to do with my acceptance of the fact that any and all religions can be and have been twisted to obtain an end.
I’m not defending Islam, as those on your end seem to be convinced I am, I’ve been trying to bring perspective, to say that my argument is that all religions can be and have been used as the means to an end, and many, many religious people can be manipulated to do things a rational person would abhor. Historically, that is true, end of story.
Today, it is Islam which is being twisted beyond recognition, but within our country, so has Christianity in some places. I detest it in both, but I don’t see Christianity as having “god on their side” any more than Islam or Judiasm OR BUDDHISM. We HAVE no god, so “he” can’t be on “our side”, "he" can't be used to justify jihad or crusade. We live within the greys, with the recognition that any human being would be different under different circumstances, in a different religion, country, etc.
We recognize the HUMANITY in all, and the ability for all to be turned to evil. That’s precisely why we follow the concept of looking to OURSELVES for what is right, not following any leader or religious authority figure supposedly interpreting the word of a god. When you take away those two things, it’s amazingly easy to recognize what is the right thing to do. Mostly: try to understand (that does NOT mean condone) and try to be compassionate (even to those who have been warped by what’s been instilled in them).
I’m not sure what’s meant by we already have Raptor...is Kane trying to say Raptor is reasonable? If so, that raises my eyebrows, as to me Raptor is just a slightly milder version of Kane. There’s no tolerance from either of them or Whozit, who is the worst in that he NEVER has any point, he just spews. I also don’t know what Kane has invested in trying to convince you to be nasty again, unless there is some sockpuppetry involved, and I’m not getting into THAT again. I have decided to take each poster as they post and will continue to do so; I’m here to converse, not play games. If someone is faking civility, I don't feel like I've been conned, I just appreciate the lack of ugliness and the ability to hear people's views. If they're NOT their views, that doesn't bother me either, they serve the purpose of furthering the conversation among those who ARE being real.
Obviously Kane is the opposite, from his own words. He's only here to slur and attack. He’s entitled, I have no control over anyone, as you have said of yourself, but it’s curious why he keeps harping on you. No more than that.
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"Whozit, who is the worst in that he NEVER has any point"
Hello,
Whozit sometimes has a point, buried somewhere between big ears and bagels. However, I understand wanting to avoid the signal to noise ratio on that channel.
--Anthony
Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.
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Hey, ya threads still goin' I'm a bit of a forum noob and don't know how to put quotes in and such, but this is a response to Niki's response to me. (also I ain't read past that point yet)
Think I was mostly expressin' my frustration at trying to talk politics with the less inteligent of my liberal friends, which in hindsight wasn't entirely relevant to this thread and I apologize for that. Anyway Kwicko threw it right back at me twice, basically establishing the point (that was probably more or less already established) that those kinds of folks exist on both sides and I didn't respond after that cause I agreed.
I don't like it went discussions turn into childish label matches, but I do enjoy intelligent discussion with folks who disagree with me. I'm somewhat of an anthropologist at heart and I love to hear about what people believe and think and why the believe it when it's different from me and I usually view losing and argument like losing a chess match, an opportunity to learn more.
Anyway, just wanted to clear that up. I don't think usually the liberals are right but that doesn't mean I ignorantly dismiss everything about them on spite.
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:
I don't like it went discussions turn into childish label matches, but I do enjoy intelligent discussion with folks who disagree with me.
Hi THT, welcome. I wish you all the best with that sentiment, I felt the same way initially, like I would learn something from people here, but so far it's been a mixed bag. People seem to come here to give and not receive, if you know what I mean, and once a thread gets derailed, forget it.
Take this subject for instance, almost 200 posts and nothing much has changed, people are entrenched, 200 posts of building those walls higher and higher.
One of the ironies I see is that the folks who are for the building of the COMMUNITY CENTER in general speak of "we shouldn't give into FEAR" and yet to me it's FEAR they are giving into. They seem stuck on the idea that everyone, Every Single Person who thinks it's a bad idea MUST hate Islam or think all Muslims are terrorists. If you aren't an Islam-o-phobe then you are "eccentric" or "lack conviction," and must be discounted. It's like they have to hang the same ugly mask on anyone that disagrees with their position - makes it easier?
Speaking of dislike, I think they still dislike America a bit, like they're still reeling from a George W hangover, and still feel shame. They were somewhat anti-America under W and they just haven't figured out how to get past it. Now, any behavior that can be remotely connected to Bush-like behavior gives them flashbacks and stirs up those old feelings, makes them afraid that even with Reverso Bush (Obama) things haven't really changed that much.
Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com
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Quote:
It's like they have to hang the same ugly mask on anyone that disagrees with their position - makes it easier?
Speaking of dislike, I think they still dislike America a bit, like they're still reeling from a George W hangover, and still feel shame. They were somewhat anti-America under W and they just haven't figured out how to get past it.
Speaking of hanging your ugly mask on things... Now anyone who defends freedom of religion dislikes America, huh?
AURaptor's Greatest Hits:
Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.
Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.
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Hello Pizmo,
You just complained that people assume the opponents in this debate are operating irrationally on triggers of emotion.
Then you explained how your opponents are operating irrationally on triggers of emotion.
Are you poking fun? Having a bit of a laugh?
--Anthony
Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.
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Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello Pizmo,
You just complained that people assume the opponents in this debate are operating irrationally on triggers of emotion.
Then you explained how your opponents are operating irrationally on triggers of emotion.
Are you poking fun? Having a bit of a laugh?
--Anthony
It is ironical isn't it? Sometimes it's like people are pointing and yelling at themselves in a mirror.
Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com
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Hello,
So, I'm afraid of creating an atmosphere of persecution that may lead to a practice of 'rights by convenience.'
What emotion is guiding you?
--Anthony
Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.
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For me it HAS been a mixed bag, but I’ve still learned a ton from the rational posters and now learned how easy it is to ignore those who have nothing to say but to spew attacks. I should have used the other post as my example, which post filled me with pride at how people were staying on point and making such wonderful points. In THAT one, those who come in from the right with snarks far outweighed the rational posters, but that’s neither here nor there.
Pizmo, if you expect debates here to change minds, then I can certainly understand your frustration, but am sad at your misunderstanding. No discussions will change most people’s minds; mine hasn’t been changed, but it’s been modified in many ways by a point here or there, and I appreciate it. Also, threads often get off track then someone brings them back and, if The Uglies aren’t around, it goes on to be an interesting thread. Not always, but more than 50% of the time, from what I’ve observed.
And no, it’s far from fear we feel who believe the COMMUNITY CENTER should be allowed to be built. It’s the fact that we can see (I believe more clearly) that it’s the right thing to do in that it upholds the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and the principles upon which this country was founded. Examples: The failure to do that is something with which we disagree; the concept that “NO government sticking their nose in our lives” coupled with the lack of logic of government deciding a woman’s right to choose. “INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS!” contrasted with the idea that it’s perfectly okay to demand a citizen’s papers or throw them in jail if they don’t have them until someone else can prove they’re a citizen. “PROPERTY RIGHTS” contrasted with the fervent willingness to throw them out the window when it’s something with which those screaming it don’t agree. “SOCIALISM!” contrasted with “Don’t touch my Medicare!” “EQUAL RIGHTS!” happily tossed out the window when it’s something with which they disagree. “The CONSTITUTION IS TO BE REVERED!” unless it’s something they want to amend or take out. And on and on; the dichotomy makes their cries sound foolish, while the other side tends to uphold all that we are built on, even when it’s uncomfortable. THAT’s why we defend their right to build it; the Beloved Constitution upholds both property rights and religious freedom, yet the foaming at the mouth to ignore BOTH of those is sad to see.
The other reason isn’t fear either, it’s the recognition that stopping the building of the COMMUNITY CENTER sends a message which HELPS the terrorists people are so afraid of in their efforts to recruit, by giving a perfect example that we ARE intolerant and filled with hate, precisely what they accuse us of. It shows our basest nature, it goes against everything America SAYS it stands for, and it’s shameful and counter-productive.
The fact is that the only reasons the COMMUNITY CENTER is being reviled is FEAR that it will be used as a weapon (which it can’t...9/11 was hatched in HAMBURG, what makes people think terrorists would NEED somewhere that will be under serious scrutiny when they could hatch their plans in secret ANYWHERE else?), that it’s “insensitive” (which only makes the sore of 9/11 deeper insofar as people can’t become acquainted with REAL Muslims, can’t utilize facilities which they would find useful, can’t increase their understanding) and the mere fact that it’s a MUSLIM building (which reflects the growing anti-Islam prejudice being fanned by people with an entirely different agenda).. None of those are valid or logical, but we can only watch helplessly and speak up against the fear, hatred and true INSENSITIVITY this movement represents.
Another lie is that anyone believesQuote:
Every Single Person who thinks it's a bad idea MUST hate Islam or think all Muslims are terrorists. If you aren't an Islam-o-phobe then you are "eccentric" or "lack conviction," and must be discounted. It's like they have to hang the same ugly mask on anyone that disagrees with their position [/quo
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With regard to the dichotomy of RWA thinking, of which I gave examples, I again offer:Quote:
http://members.shaw.ca/jeanaltemeyer/drbob/TheAuthoritarians.pdf
A filing cabinet or a computer can store quite inconsistent notions and never lose a minute of sleep over their contradiction. Similarly a high RWA can have all sorts of illogical, self-contradictory, and widely refuted ideas rattling around in various boxes in his brain, and never notice it.Quote:
http://members.shaw.ca/jeanaltemeyer/drbob/TheAuthoritarians.pdf
Authoritarians’ ideas are poorly integrated with one another. It’s as if each idea is stored in a file that can be called up and used when the authoritarian wishes, even though another of his ideas--stored in a different file-- basically contradicts it. We all have some inconsistencies in our thinking, but authoritarians can stupify you with the inconsistency of their ideas. Thus they may say they are proud to live in a country that guarantees freedom of speech, but another file holds, “My country, love it or leave it.” The ideas were copied from trusted sources, often as sayings, but the authoritarian has never “merged files” to see how well they all fit together.
The arguments made against property rights and freedom of religion in this debate, as well as the most recent post, reflect this perfectly.
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off 
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