Another 'Religion of Peace' moment, brought to you by.....yep, ISLAM!
POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Wednesday, February 12, 2025 15:05
VIEWED: 23038
PAGE 20 of 25
The problem with a lot of attempts to discuss or debate anything, is the prevalence of a type of conditioning I call Loopthink.
You see, when they're "in the loop", it really is pointless to even try logic, reason and debate, because no cognitive thought is actually occuring.
Loopthink is a set of conditioned reflex responses that work in a fashion similar to a BASIC programs GOSUB routine loop, in how they bypass the actual thought process to a more or less pre-programmed subroutine.
Usually triggered by a word, phrase or thought-concept.
And therein lies the problem, any actual cognitive process is mostly bypassed by that loop you see, and it takes a real heavy spike to knock that sideways off the rails, which is one reason I tend to get explosively nasty to someone who's gone into loopthink, cause it's the only way to knock them off the rails and make them THINK, sort of like a BREAK key.
Worse, this crap is addictive cause it tends to be trained in early by the parents and reinforced by local school/community, to the point where completing the loop kicks off that good ole dopeamine reward, just like a doggy feels happy once you've trained em to do tricks and they pull one off - the constant repetition and praise cycle creates that reflex.
That's been used in more ugly ways too, the LEAP program was about conditioning that cycle for violent action, which included the stimulating rush of adrenals and suchlike on top of the repetition and reward sequencing.
Thing is, it's not a railroad so much as a path of least resistance, like a rut the thought patterns fall into, even in the face of overwhelming evidence or logic, they'll run that way cause, again, it's a conditioned reflex, and no damn accident either.
It's possible to run against it, but that's a lot like breaking a drug addiction or cult programming in that firstoff, going "off the rails" is scary and uncomfortable for them, AND will include the ridicule and probably retaliation of most of their social circle on top of it, and the lure is very powerful - especially when they will seek out reprogramming via immersion in the message of whatever conditioner they favor (talk radio, a certain talking head, church, etc) in a bizarre form of confirmation bias to avoid ever having to face a truth that is more ugly than the fear and discomfort and alienation....
That they've built their whole existence on lies.
Most folk, even fairly strong of will, hit that point and make a rapid U-turn and dive right back onto the rails as fast as they can, they can't hack it - it's been said that one of the cruelest things you can do to a person is destroy their illusions, and maybe that is so...
But when those illusions turn them into monsters, or supporters of monsters, that's a bridge too far, unacceptable, unforgiveable.
And of course, the further down THAT road they go, the harder turning back becomes because how can a person possibly live with the knowledge of such responsibility for inflicting horror on thier fellow man, and at the time ENJOYING every second of it ?
And so they cling to the illusion, no matter how tattered and broken it becomes - it's the perfect self-perpetuating trap, because not only do they cling to that conditioning, they inflict in upon their children.
And if it fails to take, or stick - yes, they will even turn on and begin to hate thier own kids, which is, at the root of it, how at least a quarter of those kids in the hellcamps wound up there.
Nor is it any one ideology, religion, political faction or what have you that uses this trickery, since children are conditioned TO accept it in grade school in order to make them easy to manipulate - John Taylor Gatto has tons of very well-referenced information on that, and that it was and has always been, completely intentional.
But it occured before that, since it was the concept and foundation of most religion, the ability to teach people to bypass rational thought with conditioned thought-loop responses, seriously, WATCH a sermon from most beliefs and you can
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Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
RiverL, I was not dismissive of you, but of the article and video. I don’t have to read the article to know what it says. Merely “But because a comeuppance is due the arrogant elites whose undisguised contempt for the great unwashed prevents them from conceding a modicum of serious thought to those who dare oppose them." is sufficient to tell me it’s going to be the usual buzz words and talking points. You’ve heard the same sort of slurs from the left, surely you dismiss them out of hand?
I didn't imply that I thought you were dismissive of me, so no clarification is necessary. I knew you were dismissing the Krauthammer piece and the video on face value, largely out of your ideological instinct to do so. You quoted the end of the article which was a prediction and a summary, but admittedly you didn't read the case presented in the entire article to arrive at that position. I didn't consider what Krauthammer said to be slurs, more like an expression of so many people's anger with the way the country is going now, along with the arrogant way that Liberals label any opposition to that horribly wrong direction as being racist, or any of a host of other bad labels they apply at will to suit any situation for themselves.
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Nikki - Congratulations - a 1200+ word rambling extra crispy post from you and you managed to misattribute, misquote, misinterpret and misunderstand just about every thing I posted. I think you actually came up with new ways to be wrong.
Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Pizmo, if you expect debates here to change minds, then I can certainly understand your frustration, but am sad at your misunderstanding. No discussions will change most people’s minds; mine hasn’t been changed, but it’s been modified in many ways by a point here or there, and I appreciate it.
This is the only thing I agree with you on. You definitely come here with a closed mind, quoting you again: "No discussions will change most people’s minds; mine hasn’t been changed." Says it all, there's only Niki's way.
Please review Frem's post about people living inside loops.
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Awww,we can't let this one die, can we?
Frem: Right on. I'll try to remember your "pre-programmed loop", it's a perfect description.
RL, there is NO way I dismiss anything out of any "ideological instinct". I don't work on instinct, which in some cases differentiates me from the knee-jerk response some on left and right express. I read at least the beginning of most links, and if I think they have something valid to say, I read them all.
WHEN I come up against things like "arrogant elitists”, “great unwashed”, “undisguised contempt”, "modicum of serious thought". and “because a comeuppance is due the arrogant elites whose undisguised contempt for the great unwashed prevents them from conceding a modicum of serious thought to those who dare oppose them” at the very BEGINNING of a piece, of course I don’t read further; the bias is blatantly obvious!
Would you continue to read if you came up against “Those Republicans who are inciting the Tea Party crowds at these outdoor 'klansmen' rallies...or “Sarah Palin and the entire Republican Party are the real terrorists here-encouraging people to reload and arm themselves with bricks” or "These Republicans may as well be caged animals in the Zoo, they are acting irrationally” or “Republics are idiots, programed robots for buzz words and have no concept of how government is run”, would YOU read any further?
I wish you’d give me the benefit of at least some intelligence and leave off the slurs...they’re certainly better than what you used to do, but comparing remarks to me with remarks I read in other posts, they’re only relatively better.Quote:
isn’t much better.
Liberals label any opposition to that horribly wrong direction as being racist, or any of a host of other bad labels they apply at will to suit any situation for themselves
Painting all liberals with the same politispeak derrogatories doesn't mean that all of us fit the same mold, or that even the MAJORITY of us fit the aspersions with which you vilify us.
I TRY to find articles which aren’t slanted, or at least aren’t slanted so obviously and present FACTS within them. I realize you despise anything liberal or Democrat rather violently; despite that I check out links you post, but invariably they offer little but denigration of both, in which I have no interest. I’m sorry you can’t accept that, but I think my reasons are valid.
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off 
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Pizmo, I fail to see where I misunderstood what you wrote...unless it was sarcastic.
You said it was "fear" that made us want to allow the COMMUNITY CENTER to be built. I explained how it was not fear at all and told you what it is for me and I believe most people who don't oppose it.
I explained how "Every Single Person who thinks it's a bad idea MUST hate Islam or think all Muslims are terrorists" is untrue.
You said we "disliked America", which I refuted and told you how I feel about America, which I've heard others express as well (including thoughtful Republican friends who don't call me "terrorist" or "Anti-American" for my beliefs).
I would add that no, we're not "afraid" that Obama is Bush Lite, we recognize it and we speak up about it. So we have nothing to "fear" from that, because we agree.
How any of that "misquotes", "misinterprets" or "misunderstands" anything you wrote is beyond me. They are YOUR words I quoted, and if somehow it was possible to misunderstand or misinterpret them, I would appreciate you clarifying.
I did misspeak in saying my mind hadn't been changed. I meant about the COMMUNITY CENTEr; my mind has been changed and I have learned many things on many other subjects.
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
It's like they have to hang the same ugly mask on anyone that disagrees with their position - makes it easier?
Speaking of dislike, I think they still dislike America a bit, like they're still reeling from a George W hangover, and still feel shame. They were somewhat anti-America under W and they just haven't figured out how to get past it.
Speaking of hanging your ugly mask on things... Now anyone who defends freedom of religion dislikes America, huh?
Silly Kwiksdraw - freedom of religion is one of the great founding principles... even if I believed that (I don't) do you really think I would make such a simple error? Your desire to connect the two most disparate and damaging dots is kind of a bad habit.
Obviously, I shouldn't have casually tossed that stink bomb out there without e-splainin' just a little more. Mea culpa,
Remember the W years? I actually thought he started out pretty good, the country was on a knife edge right after 9/11 and an unsteady response from 42 would have been the next worst thing. But he was steady and delivered a solid speech and I was impressed (first time) - he won a lot of points from me for that.
Then the next 6 years happened and we invaded Iraq. I disliked our foreign policies, I was not keen on our domestic policies, I did not like the people surrounding our central government, and I really lost faith in our POTUS. You can love something and not like it very much and that's how I felt about the US - I have very high expectations for the country and it seemed under Bush we were headed in the wrong direction.
So yeah, you could say I disliked the US, kind of like when your home team makes stupid trades and hires an idiot coach and plays like shit. "Come On!"
So, did you like America then? Remember the frustration, the human rights violations? Remember how it seemed like it might never end? That's what I think some people tapped into on the mosque silliness, "not again."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Pizmo, I fail to see where I misunderstood what you wrote...unless it was sarcastic.
You said it was "fear" that made us want to allow the COMMUNITY CENTER to be built.
No I didn't. I said you feared those that opposed the MOSQUE THING, that you feared it was more of the same Bush era human rights issues. Read my post to Mike.
Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
I explained how "Every Single Person who thinks it's a bad idea MUST hate Islam or think all Muslims are terrorists" is untrue.
You misquoted here, you left off the first part, ""They SEEM stuck on the idea that everyone, Every Single Person who thinks it's a bad idea MUST hate Islam or think all Muslims are terrorists." It does change the meaning. I said that because using the common sense argument and quoting many others from many different walks of life who also thought: "it's a bad idea" were being ignored. Also, see my quotes from HK below that generated that thought. Maybe you didn't see those earlier, it's a long thread.
You also misspoke:
Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Another lie is that anyone believesQuote:There ARE those who believe that, it’s shown even here much less in the larger world, but nobody thinks for a minute that it’s for the reasons you stated. The preponderance of overblown misstatements presented as fact is one thing which makes arguments totally irrelevant. More accurate would be that many believe those who are against it have been manipulated to believe things that aren’t true (like that it’s a “mosque”) and are reacting out of that propaganda. On the side in favor of letting it be built, there ARE those who believe those against it are exactly what you described, but I think they’re no more a majority than those who DO reflect fear and hatred...and I don’t know anyone who thinks that makes them “eccentric” or lacking in conviction. Lack of conviction is the LAST thing I think about those opposing the COMMUNITY CENTER!
Every Single Person who thinks it's a bad idea MUST hate Islam or think all Muslims are terrorists. If you aren't an Islam-o-phobe then you are "eccentric" or "lack conviction," and must be discounted. It's like they have to hang the same ugly mask on anyone that disagrees with their position
Lie? I quoted HK: "If Islam doesn't = terrorist, then what in god's name is the problem with an Islamic Center ANYWHERE? And Pizmo, you may have some terribly ECCENTRIC and personal reason for opposing this building, but if you look at Kaneman's "face of the GOP" the reason is clear as summer rain: Islam = terrorist."
HK: "However, the difference between "opposing" a thing and thinking something is "a bad idea" seems mostly a matter of conviction."
More error:
Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
You said we "disliked America", which I refuted and told you how I feel about America, which I've heard others express as well (including thoughtful Republican friends who don't call me "terrorist" or "Anti-American" for my beliefs).
Where the fuck did I call you a terrorist????
Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
I would add that no, we're not "afraid" that Obama is Bush Lite, we recognize it and we speak up about it. So we have nothing to "fear" from that, because we agree.
How any of that "misquotes", "misinterprets" or "misunderstands" anything you wrote is beyond me. They are YOUR words I quoted, and if somehow it was possible to misunderstand or misinterpret them, I would appreciate you clarifying.
I did misspeak in saying my mind hadn't been changed. I meant about the COMMUNITY CENTEr; my mind has been changed and I have learned many things on many other subjects.
You're even pointing out to yourself where you misspoke.
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Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,
So, I'm afraid of creating an atmosphere of persecution that may lead to a practice of 'rights by convenience.'
What emotion is guiding you?
Thanks for asking Anthony and not assuming.
Emotion? Shouldn't that be kept out of politics?
"I'm afraid of creating an atmosphere of persecution that may lead to a practice of 'rights by convenience.' "
I'm not afraid of that - I think we're too loud and opinionated of a society for us to fall into that. But I guess that's all in the eye of the beholder.
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Okay, Pizmo. Originally you wrote Quote:
Nowhere in there does it say those in favor of the COMMUNITY CENTER fear their opponents, only that it’s fear we’re giving into.
One of the ironies I see is that the folks who are for the building of the COMMUNITY CENTER in general speak of "we shouldn't give into FEAR" and yet to me it's FEAR they are giving into.Quote:
You didn’t say that, you just said it was fear they were giving into. I interpreted that as fear of the Muslim world because of the connection to Muslims, so my response was appropriate for what you wrote. Left it wide open to interpretation, and nowhere did you say we FEARED the opponents of the COMMUNITY CENTER, just what it seemed to you was how people in favor of the COMMUNITY CENTER saw them.[
I said you feared those that opposed the MOSQUE THING, that you feared it was more of the same Bush era human rights issues
Nonetheless, I still disagree about those opposing the COMMUNITY CENTER; for myself, it’s certainly not fear, more disgust and dismay. I don’t actually think those people will get into power—some of them might and can certainly make a mess of things, but when it comes to Muslims, I thought Bush was decent, and am dismayed that ever since we got a Black man in office, the right has played up the “hate ‘the other’” card for all they’re worth. It sickens me, it doesn’t scare me, and it’s not why I am in favor of the COMMUNITY CENTER...I’m in favor of it because I believe it’s RIGHT.
I’ll accept that the caveat “seem” changes the meaning. But it’s still questionable in my mind. you continued on making a flat statement: Quote:
So I’ll change that to “it SEEMS like you’re saying...” And my response was that there ARE people who reflect your description exactly. I don’t know about “eccentric”, and I certainly question “lack conviction”, given that’s the opposite of what I’ve observed. But “islamophobe” is something which some people opposed to the COMMUNITY CENTER certainly do represent. So I’ll grant you the “seem” and let it go at that.
If you aren't an Islam-o-phobe then you are "eccentric" or "lack conviction," and must be discounted.
No error: You DID say we disliked America, twice even. I didn’t say YOU called me a terrorist, I have heard it over and over from the right, especially during Bush’s time in office: that anyone who disagreed with his policies was anti-American; anyone who argued for the rights of detainees or such were “terrorist sympathizers” or just plain terrorists. They also say we hate America, which, lessening the accusation to “dislike”, doesn’t change the meaning much.
As to my “misspeaking”, in actuality I didn’t...I didn’t CLARIFY that I was talking about my mind not being changed about the COMMUNITY CENTER...that’s not misspeaking. That you misunderstood it to mean in all ways is a simple mistake, it’s semantics, neither person’s fault.
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off
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