Another 'Religion of Peace' moment, brought to you by.....yep, ISLAM!
POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Wednesday, February 12, 2025 15:05
VIEWED: 23038
PAGE 21 of 25
Quote:
No error: You DID say we disliked America, twice even. I didn’t say YOU called me a terrorist, I have heard it over and over from the right, especially during Bush’s time in office: that anyone who disagreed with his policies was anti-American; anyone who argued for the rights of detainees or such were “terrorist sympathizers” or just plain terrorists. They also say we hate America, which, lessening the accusation to “dislike”, doesn’t change the meaning much.
Yup. Pizmo claimed that we "dislike" America, which is patently untrue, and something he or she would have no way of knowing one way or the other anyway, unless we (all of us, any of us) came right out and said we disliked America.
My wife squeezes the toothpaste tube from the middle. Drives me nuts, it does. I dislike that she does that, but I still love my wife. How can that be? How can one dislike the things another does, yet still love them?
Bush did things that I thought were to the great detriment of our country. I hated many of the things he did; I never hated my country though. That's an authoritarian streak that seems to run only through the right wing, this idea that if you oppose a President and his illegal wars, you hate your country.
I was *embarrassed* for my country, but only because we had a really horrible president who was trying to do things to destroy our nation and hurt its people. But I always loved the country itself, even while I felt an intense dislike for the occupant of the Oval Office. I actually can dislike the man in the office without hating the office itself, or by extension, the country.
AURaptor's Greatest Hits:
Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.
Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Aww, c'mon...surely we can get to 200 posts if we really TRY...
And then some.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
No error: You DID say we disliked America, twice even. I didn’t say YOU called me a terrorist, I have heard it over and over from the right, especially during Bush’s time in office: that anyone who disagreed with his policies was anti-American; anyone who argued for the rights of detainees or such were “terrorist sympathizers” or just plain terrorists. They also say we hate America, which, lessening the accusation to “dislike”, doesn’t change the meaning much.
Yup. Pizmo claimed that we "dislike" America, which is patently untrue, and something he or she would have no way of knowing one way or the other anyway, unless we (all of us, any of us) came right out and said we disliked America.
What I actually said before you decided I said something else was:
"Speaking of dislike, I think they still dislike America a bit, like they're still reeling from a George W hangover, and still feel shame."
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
My wife squeezes the toothpaste tube from the middle. Drives me nuts, it does. I dislike that she does that, but I still love my wife. How can that be? How can one dislike the things another does, yet still love them?
Bush did things that I thought were to the great detriment of our country. I hated many of the things he did; I never hated my country though. That's an authoritarian streak that seems to run only through the right wing, this idea that if you oppose a President and his illegal wars, you hate your country.
I was *embarrassed* for my country, but only because we had a really horrible president who was trying to do things to destroy our nation and hurt its people. But I always loved the country itself, even while I felt an intense dislike for the occupant of the Oval Office. I actually can dislike the man in the office without hating the office itself, or by extension, the country.
So you equate dislike with hate? So waterboarding *embarrassed* you? Did you giggle just a little and then feel bad?
I even took the time to add extra explanation:
"You can love something and not like it very much and that's how I felt about the US - I have very high expectations for the country and it seemed under Bush we were headed in the wrong direction.
So yeah, you could say I disliked the US, kind of like when your home team makes stupid trades and hires an idiot coach and plays like shit. "Come On!"
So, did you like America then? Remember the frustration, the human rights violations? Remember how it seemed like it might never end? That's what I think some people tapped into on the mosque silliness, "not again.""
So bonus explaining on my part, and bonus misunderstanding on yours. Seriously why bother replying?
In our AZ immigration thread you had to characterize me as a racist when we disagreed, and now you have to misquote and characterize me as authoritarian and right wing - and again wrong. Funny, you keep confirming what I've been saying: you have to try and uglify anyone that disagrees with you - childish.
Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Aww, c'mon...surely we can get to 200 posts if we really TRY...
And then some.
300 is so close...
Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com
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Pizmo, you said more than just what Mike quoted, and it definitely gave the impression you had made up your mind that "we" disliked America. For some of the reasons you explained that you disliked it during the Bush Administration. But that doesn't mean it's how we feel/felt.Quote:
I certainly understand how you felt, but that is not a reason to ascribe the same feelings to everyone who is in favor of the COMMUNITY CENTER. In your post, you didn't say "some people"; you're qualifying and explaining now, but the responses you got were to what you originally posted.
So, did you like America then? Remember the frustration, the human rights violations? Remember how it seemed like it might never end? That's what I think some people tapped into on the mosque silliness, "not again."
What you actually said also included “still dislike America”, which means you assume we DID previously. Also, the complete quote is:Quote:
The underlined part is a flat statement, no modifying “seems” or “I think” or anything else. You can’t castigate us for interpreting what you said the way we did, because that’s what you WROTE.
Speaking of dislike, I think they still dislike America a bit, like they're still reeling from a George W hangover, and still feel shame. They were somewhat anti-America under W and they just haven't figured out how to get past it. Now, any behavior that can be remotely connected to Bush-like behavior gives them flashbacks and stirs up those old feelings, makes them afraid that even with Reverso Bush (Obama) things haven't really changed that much.
ThisQuote:
is the most ironic part, because what you accused “us” of is pretty much hanging the ugly mask of anti-Americanism, plus descriptions of flashbacks, etc., in the same paragraph. That many, if not most, of us are more focused on the Constitutional rights of freedom of religion and property rights, not to mention the fact that IT’S NOT A MOSQUE and that the signal it actually sends is that we hate Islam and are intolerant and fearful (great enlistment points for extremists), has been interpreted by you as “fear” of Bushism, which is erroneous. I’m not saying some don’t feel that way, but I don’t know any of them and I certainly don’t.
It's like they have to hang the same ugly mask on anyone that disagrees with their position - makes it easier?
I didn't dislike AMERICA through the Bush Presidency at all. I felt just like Mike...for me it was a matter of "SHIT! How could they have elected HIM?!?" and I had a bumper sticker reading "How could 52 million people be so stupid?"
But he was a President, he didn't represent the country...in fact he represented pretty much the OPPOSITE of what America stands for, to me. There are always Presidents...they can't screw us up for much more than 8 years and they "aren't" America in total. So no, I very much didn't dislike my country; I marched and protested and waited for him to go, and in the meantime was embararssed and frustrated by his administration. There's a big difference.
Millions of us felt that way...check out "I'm Sorry Everybody" at http://www.sorryeverybody.com/gallery/1/ I found that way back during Bush's first term; it's a gallery of Americans holding up signs apologizing to the rest of the world for Bush. I never forgot the one that said "It's okay, just don't do it again" in it's sister website from the world "Apology Accepted". Then "we" went and re-elected him. Man, that was embarrassing!
Your characterizations show that it is YOU who fits your descriptions in this thread:Quote:
you have to try and uglify anyone that disagrees with you – childishQuote:
and
You definitely come here with a closed mindQuote:
are the only “uglifying” terms I see in Mike’s and my exchanges with you, and they’re used by YOU.
Says it all, there's only Niki's way. Please review Frem's post about people living inside loops.
As toQuote:
So waterboarding *embarrassed* you? Did you giggle just a little and then
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Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
I hope we can let this lie;
Oh my God please let this lie. I promise this is my last post... even my last one wasn't to you.
Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com
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Pizmo, I've posted numerous arguments making my case for going ahead with the community center in NYC and you haven't--to my knowledge, nobody here has--made a single reasoned refutation of any of it. It's just plug their ears, tell me black is white, and now you post another hysterical b.s.-packed video from Mr. Bug-eyes. Et tu, Pizmo?
I said that the difference between thinking something was "a bad idea" and opposing it was a matter of "conviction." You're saying it's not? You think it's a bad idea, but you support it? Are you making the fine distinction of supporting their right to do it and yet thinking it's a bad idea? Forgive me if that is really where you're at, which is perfectly reasonable, but you have been oddly and continually vague about just where you stand on this matter. And that's your right, but don't be surprised when folks misread your mixed signals.
Meanwhile, I've somehow implied that you hate Muslims? No, I was saying that next to Islam = terrorist, your argument, whatever it is, doesn't stand a chance. What I was sayin' was that the opposition to the building would have ZERO TRACTION if not for the rabid anti-Islamic sentiment that's swept across this nation in the last month. This controversy exists because of it. Without that, your "I think it's a bad idea" would just be some guy's opinion (hence the word, "eccentric") and the thing would be going ahead as planned having been approved by the City of New York nearly A YEAR AGO.
As to ol' Bug-eyes here:
Quote:That, right at the top of the video is infuriatingly absurd. In this context, "anything" has to include Sharia Law, public stonings, and another 9/11 terror attack and I need to know HOW IN THE
We all know that if Islam can get away with a stunt like this in American, it can get away with anything!
building a place of worship, like any other religious group in this country, would lead to this guy's "anything." Allowing them to build the community center is just that. They wanna start committing crimes, they will be dealt with then--how does "letting them get away" with this, lead to us letting them get away with anything not also covered by the Bill of Rights? Why do folk on your side of the debate see Islam as this single, monolithic conspiracy, when it's convenient to do so, then double back and point out the Muslims who oppose the building? Why can't people realize that the majority of Muslims in this country have come to our shores SPECIFICALLY to escape the authoritarian regimes of their homelands, like so many other immigrants throughout our nation's history? Islam is many different sects and cultures and any blanket statement about "what this mosque means to them" is de facto horse flop. Many of you have posted a variety of Muslim opinions that oppose the community center, and yet folks insist on talking about what the mosque means to Islam. WTF?
Now, o' course, we've heard form the Taliban and they, o' course, encourage us to prevent the community center from being built because that supports their narrative about the United States.
Quote:And how exactly does he know this? Has ANYONE associated with the community center said ANYTHING remotely close to this sentiment? Has the FBI intercepted secret memos celebrating "Islamic triumphalism (whatever that is)?" And commonsensical cynicism about American motives and the well-worn idea that American foreign policy contributed to the events of 9/11 don't count. Glenn Beck and Ron Paul and others have said as much themselves, all upstanding Americans.
There is a difference between practicing your religion, which everyone has the right to do, and rubbing your religion in people's faces as a triumphalist political statement, which is what's happening here.
Quote:This, this is bloody priceless! LMAO This guy obviously has no understanding of American values--why, oh why, do y'all give this cr
I'd be interested to know just how bad an insult has to be before it's no longer protected by the first amendment.
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Most eloquent, Cav, and pretty much all there REALISTICALLY is to say. I feel your frustration through the ether, and I agree wholeheartedly. "You're a stronger man than I am, Gunga Din", 'cuz I couldn't get past that "get away with anything" line, it had made my stomach roil quite enough by then.
By the way, I, too, would like to hear a logical, constitutional, legal reason for opposing the COMMUNITY CENTER. If there is such a thing.
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off 
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Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Pizmo, I've posted numerous arguments making my case for going ahead with the community center in NYC and you haven't--to my knowledge, nobody here has--made a single reasoned refutation of any of it. It's just plug their ears, tell me black is white, and now you post another hysterical b.s.-packed video from Mr. Bug-eyes. Et tu, Pizmo?
I actually made plenty of reasoned refutations against it, even quoted the nytimes quoting muslims from around the globe making reasoned comments against it, but you SEEM stuck on the extremists opposition view only.
Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
I said that the difference between thinking something was "a bad idea" and opposing it was a matter of "conviction." You're saying it's not? You think it's a bad idea, but you support it? Are you making the fine distinction of supporting their right to do it and yet thinking it's a bad idea? Forgive me if that is really where you're at, which is perfectly reasonable, but you have been oddly and continually vague about just where you stand on this matter. And that's your right, but don't be surprised when folks misread your mixed signals.
I have absolute conviction that building the community center is a bad idea for muslims and non-muslims.
My first post on the subject:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=44879
quote:
"The First Amendment protects freedom of religion," Manley said. "Sen. Reid respects that but thinks that the mosque should be built some place else."
That sums it up for me.
I was surprised that O. said anything on this now - let New York and Bloomberg fight it out - but I guess considering the occasion of the dinner he had to say something, and of course the repubs would whine about anything he'd say.
I can't help but think a better solution would have been for him to "appeal" to the people that want to build the mosque to build it elsewhere ("with all due respect, it would be better for all muslims in the US if you do"), try and make both sides happy, come out an undisputed hero all the way around, and win some votes in Nov. If they refused the onus would be on them, "I tried... but our constitution is clear on this..." which he said except for the I tried part.
That place will be a target either way, I'd stay clear on the day that there aren't protestors out front." /quote
Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Meanwhile, I've somehow implied that you hate Muslims? No, I was saying that next to Islam = terrorist, your argument, whatever it is, doesn't stand a chance. What I was sayin' was that the opposition to the building would have ZERO TRACTION if not for the rabid anti-Islamic sentiment that's swept across this nation in the last month. This controversy exists because of it. Without that, your "I think it's a bad idea" would just be some guy's opinion (hence the word, "eccentric") and the thing would be going ahead as planned having been approved by the City of New York nearly A YEAR AGO.
"...the rabid anti-Islamic sentiment that's swept across this nation in the last month."
How are you quantifying that?? By what you see on tv? I kind of agree in that it wouldn't be as big of a story if the Media didn't have that angle to play up, that's the engine that drives the story, but it's not the whole story.
I was pleased to see David Gergen speaking about this on cnn. He said, "there are plenty of pro-muslim people who are anti-mosque." (as in not rabid anti-islamists) He also debunked the polls that show what appears to be a shocking percent of Americans believing Obama's a muslim and puts Islam ahead of America. "Pure Politics. Republicans that are polled are going to anything to denigrate him... they could ask, "do you think Obama killed Elvis?" and they'd say yes." (Think of what AURaptor would reply if he was polled) Americans by and large have proven themselves to be a tolerant nation." I agree.
Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
As to ol' Bug-eyes here:NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
"respects that but thinks that the mosque should be built some place else"
Hello,
So, I am afraid that an atmosphere of persecution will lead to an observance of 'rights by convenience.'
What emotion is driving you?
--Anthony
Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.
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