Help me - I'm confused by racial labels
POSTED BY: pizmobeach
UPDATED: Wednesday, August 9, 2023 16:59
VIEWED: 9570
PAGE 14 of 15
Hmm, so I'm not sure if a ruptured disk is the same as a herniated disk, I looked it up and was redirected. A bulge is an almost herniated disk. But ouch, I can imagine why that would hurt.
Well, I'd do whatever you can. I didn't take any pain medication, though a friend of mine did for hers, it's all about how you respond to it. Also, part of my problem was sitting at a desk for ten hours, I got an ergonomic chair with lumbar support to help with that. Then, when I went home, it was bedrest, bedrest, bedrest.
I found that laying on my side with the mattress/cushion supporting the side my spine curves to to seems to have been the least painful position, and the one I've had the best recovery with. Make sure the mattress or cushion has a lot of support, but not too firm, you want to sink in just a bit. If that's not a good position, lying flat on your back also seems at least to help with the pain.
Towards the end of the period where I would say the pain was pretty constant, my back started popping and adjusting by itself alot, which was alarming, but my back started to feel better then, too, so I think that was part of the healing process.
And even though chiropractors and surgeons may make me nervous, it may be worth it for you to talk to some.
As for physical therapy, I definitely deteriorated in my lung capacity and muscle strength over the six months. So I would also look into that.
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Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
I was baffled by this commentQuote:
Obama...once (still?) persecuted minority
Until I read this one.Quote:
Thatcher
My actual thought was "wait we persecuted Kenyans? When? I thought that was Britain." but then you made a decidedly british comment.
I like Thatcher btw, soft ice cream.
I'm not British - I just hate Thatcher - lived under her 'reign' for quite awhile and it sucked.
Sorry I worded badly - I meant that African Americans were persecuted in North America and the (still?) sort of implying that perhaps they still were (I don't live in the US so I'm throwing the question out there)
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Magonsdaughter,
Oh, by soft ice cream I meant soft ice cream, a product, that sells well here, good stuff, invented by Ms. Thatcher and a team of fellow scientists. Good work :) I spend a lot of time in the UK, the consensus there is nothing compares to the Blair. Tony has set a new bar on a Vlad Putin level, and my British friends are all Labor, so... Oh, Labour, with a u, sorry.
Black, discrimination. Yes and no. There's not a lot of popular anti-black feeling, outside of Wulf (/snark) No, I never see any of this, maybe I'm not in the sort of place where it happens, but there is definitely within the halls of power a racism. It's now top down, and not coming from the people. My recent thread on Schumer and gentrification is all about his genocidal anti-black policies, leveling their homes and kicking them out to build either white settlements or businesses, which is to me exactly the policy that Schumer supported in Israel under Ohlmert with the palestinians, so yes, that sort of thing exists.
Obama's not a member of the ethnic group, I'm not sure whether or not that matters. He's a Luo, and they're an unrelated African group. African-American slaves were basically exclusively Niger-River based or Sengal-River based prisoners captured in Dahomey's slave wars, funded by western purchases (though they had been running for some time, since 900ish) the point being, this is the ethnic group that american blacks, such as Michelle Obama is from. It would be like calling an Australian Aborigine "black." Additionally, with a Hawaii/Indonesia white/asian upbringing, he doesn't have a black upbringing, culturally.
The things that do make him black are:
1. He has dark skin, of african descent, and is *percieved* as black, a member of the black community, which means that Obama does effect attitudes, in a positive way
2. He's from Hyde park which is an upscale black neighborhood in Chicago, where I used to live, and frequently visit. It's had its share of problems over the years, and goes up and down, but is decidedly part of "black america" the way Harlem is.
So, in that sense, yes, Obama *is* black, African American, but *not* related genetically or culturally to black americans, and so it *would* be fair to say that Obama *didn't* have the same level of disadvantages that a typical black american might have. I'm not sure that a black politician would have been able to do what he did. His ability to talk culturally to the broader American spectrum, white, asian and latino, rather than just the black community, helped him immensely vs. previous African-American candidates
The significance of the genetic background is this:
The President
Previous presidential contenders:
Jesse Jackson:
Al Sharpton:
General wisdom is that Jackson and Sharpton were unable to reach non-black audiences on a cultural level, but if the question is, "is there, deep down, a racial discrimination that triggers on some non-blacks when they see 'black' features?" Then my answer is "I don't know." I can see that yes, on facial recognition, Jackson and Sharpton would appear black to other American in a way that Obama would not because he's of a different genetic background, and whether or not this recognition could prompt a subconscious rejection from some non-black voters, I don't know. It's possible.
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I didn't mind Blair, but he was in power too long and Labour became a kind of Torylite in the end - really nothing compared to the hell that was Thatcher, IMO of course.
Re: Obama's ethnicity - I doubt whether racists would care about it - they would just see him 'black' and label him with the appropriate stereotypes.
Australian Aboriginals are often referred to as black - and it's one of those terms that threads in and out of favour with the community themselves, sometimes seen as racist sometimes seen as an appropriate desciption - there are mobs who have often traditionally referred to themselves as 'Blackfellas'. Current term of appropriateness here where I live is 'Koori'.
It is often Koories themselves who wish to distinguish themselves from the Anglo population here - because of the history of forced integration, where people hid their ancestry if at all possible because of racism and the shame surrounding it. Now people are open and proud of that heritage and tend to proclaim it loudly - sort of a backlash, I'd imagine
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Magonsdaughter,
First, a political line, just so we don't get into any partisan disagreements, because I think in general, those are pointless (no one is going to change anyone else's right/left perspective, but maybe on individual issues.) I support the Tories, and wish that we had a party like them here in the US. I can't support the republicans anymore, they're ridiculous. I hope every election that the democrats have changed and will live up to their message, but they always let me down, and it looks like it's going to happen again. I think Cameron looks good for 2010.
Thatcher didn't strike me as that bad, but I didn't live under her. She seemed like "Reagan lite." But Thatcherism isn't the only kind of Tory. Blair struck me as "Bush with a Brain" which doesn't help when you look at what they're *trying* to do, which seems to be start a WWIII, I'd rather have an incompetent moron like Bush than someone actually capable of doing it. But Obama is still definitely better than Bush or Clinton.
Quote:
e: Obama's ethnicity - I doubt whether racists would care about it - they would just see him 'black' and label him with the appropriate stereotypes.
Oh, that's not what I meant. Overt racists would never vote for a democrat anyway, because of the civil rights platform, so I feel safe to say that there are very very few votes among the left that Obama would lose to open racism.
I was implying the possibility of a "subconscious" racism, that saw a black face, and didn't think "President." Presidents have to "Look Presidential." There's a lot of stuff that goes into that image. Someone who "looks black" on a facial recognition level might trigger "not president" in the subconscious of people who do not think of themselves as racist. The only reason this idea occurs is that candidates of west african descent have done very poorly in primaries. It may be entirely cultural though, I was just admitting that it might be possible for some americans.
Quote:
Australian Aboriginals are often referred to as black - and it's one of those terms that threads in and out of favour with the community themselves, sometimes seen as racist sometimes seen as an appropriate desciption - there are mobs who have often traditionally referred to themselves as 'Blackfellas'. Current term of appropriateness here where I live is 'Koori'.
It is often Koories themselves who wish to distinguish themselves from the Anglo population here - because of the history of forced integration, where people hid their ancestry if at all possible because of racism and the shame surrounding it. Now people are open and proud of that heritage and tend to proclaim it loudly - sort of a backlash, I'd imagine
Interesting. Sounds like the 1960s black pride here. I just meant they wouldn't be mistaken for (west african)black in the US, I don't think. South asians have dark skin, but would never be confused with african americans by anyone here, I don't think, I've never seen it happen anyway.
people hid ancestry of mixed white/aboriginal? I'm not sure I follow you ...
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I grew up in an all-white neighborhood. I didn't see a black face in the flesh until I was about 16. But I heard about "them". Oh, yes. "They" were poor, shiftless, ignorant, violent, and smelly. "They" spoke badly. "They" felt entitled, embittered, and dragged race into every conceivable excuse for the way "their" lives turned out. Needless to say, I have very deeply rooted prejudices. When a black person did something stupid or violent, I would (mentally) snort and think Typical ghetto trash! What do you expect?.
But I noticed something funny. As the MEDIA changed to portray blacks in something other than stupid sitcoms... as doctors, surgeons, scientists, pilots, presidents, bosses of the Warehouse 13 crew (
) and yes- even Shepherds- I started reacting positively to certain faces ... Why, he looks just like the surgeon character on ER! or Hey, SHE looks just like the lady on Warehouse 13!.
Am I the only one?
I think Obama being shown AS PRESIDENT may not have a big effect on people who are rabidly racist, but on peeps like me, the exposure may leave a positive lasting change.
What do you think?
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I don't think this is a common experience, but I also don't think it was the question. It was whether racism played a part in Barack Obama's election, I'm not sure that it did, except maybe on a subconscious level.
Edit: in answer to the original question, Obama is a Luo-American Islamo-Christian WASP whose is black, white, and read all over, and has spend more time with luaus then with luos. We're more worried about whether he's a 21st century globalist or and FDR social imperialist than what genetic or cultural group he belongs to or belonged to or will belong to...
He seems like a nice guy, but very slow to get a dog. He was only the third non-dog owning American to win a presidential election, though he did so with a campaign promise to get a dog.
There's another thing. Teddy Kennedy *gave* Obama the Labradoodle which is called a Portuguese Water Dog if you buy it from some pricey dog-breeder, which he did, which is nothing against the dog, but *did* break Obama's campaign promise that it would be a "pound puppy." Now, of course, there was a diplomatic way out of this: 2 dogs. Obama could have fulfilled the full promise and gotten an additional dog from an animal shelter, to keep a promise, send a positive message, and shake some of that "elitist" image that having millions of dollars, marrying a corporate executive and sending your kids to pricey private school tends to send. <-- interesting point Jimmy Carter made: Presidents who send their kids to private school have no incentive to improve the public education system.
Sorry, just adding to the huge infobase of "stuff written about the Obama's dog, Bo. In his first week, 17.5 million words were written about Bo, which gives you just a tiny glimpse into exactly how bad the information overload situation really is.
To me, Obama is a Hyde Parker, which makes him a brother. I can still have disagreements with him, like right now over foreign policy, which is the part of me that is from Upstate Iran, where the blind governor is expected to beat the President in a bowling match. ;)
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Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Magonsdaughter,
Thatcher didn't strike me as that bad, but I didn't live under her. She seemed like "Reagan lite." But Thatcherism isn't the only kind of Tory. Blair struck me as "Bush with a Brain" which doesn't help when you look at what they're *trying* to do, which seems to be start a WWIII, I'd rather have an incompetent moron like Bush than someone actually capable of doing it. But Obama is still definitely better than Bush or Clinton.
Oh, if you support the Tories, then you would probably like Thatcher. I hated her 'there is no society, only individuals' policies, because I think that's bunk - lost of other reasons too. She supported Pinochet in Chile, brought it the poll tax, had some pretty heavy handed methods of dealing with dissent... but then I can't stand Reagan either. Especially galls me that he is considered some big hero by revising history - ack-
I would never vote Tory (if I still lived in the UK). I much too left of centre for that. In the US, I'd probably be branded a communist and booted out of the country
but views are considered pretty mild here.Quote:
people hid ancestry of mixed white/aboriginal? I'm not sure I follow you ...
Sure, well it was encouraged by the government in the worst possible way. Aboriginal children of mixed blood were taken from their families and brought up with white parents so they could integrate - these people are now referred to as the 'Stolen Generation' All in all it was considered so bad to be Aboriginal - they didn't even get the vote until 1967 - that people hid it if they could. A shameful part of our history. I'm not sure if you heard about our Prime Minister's apology when he was elected - but basically that's what it was about.
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"Black, discrimination. Yes and no. There's not a lot of popular anti-black feeling ..."
It depends on where you go and how comfortable people are talking in front of you. Since I am so white I just about glow in the dark, I've overheard stuff that a darker person would probably not have heard (imagine the speaker leaning forward and speaking soto voce as they make their comment) - and this is in Los Angeles, not some rural, historically redneck town. And it's not just in reference to blacks, it's also 'Mexicans', 'Asians' and 'libruls'.
***************************************************************
Silence is consent.
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Quote:
Oh, if you support the Tories, then you would probably like Thatcher. I hated her 'there is no society, only individuals' policies,
Yeah, I do. They're a lot better than our republicans. No political party is perfect, but I could vote for the tories, if they ran here. I couldn't vote for either party here, I voted Green.
Quote:
She supported Pinochet in Chile,
A lot of conservatives did. This was an error. I don't hold it against labour MPs who supported Saddam Hussein, I don't even hold it against people who supported the worst regimes of all time, because these were mistakes. People become politically blind. There are lots of leftists who supported the ANC here, even Mugabe right up until '99. The fact is, this is just willful ignorance: People like to see the pendulum swing their way, and so they support it. There are people right now supporting Chavez, who probably has nothing to redeem him. It's not that he's a leftist, it's that he's a lunatic like Kim Jong Il. Maybe not *that* looney, but pretty looney. The right is supporting people like Hamid Karzai. My take? People support their political stripe, and don't examine closely enough exactly what it is they're supporting. Reagan also supported Pinochet.
Quote:
but then I can't stand Reagan either. Especially galls me that he is considered some big hero by revising history - ack-
Reagan worship was always a little out of control and pointless. On the plus side, he was relatively prosperous and peaceful for the US, on the minus side, GHW Bush was running amok with Cheney and Rummy in the background starting wars overseas, etc. Reagan wouldn't be my first choice. Ironically, he's Obama's idol. I understand that, there are a lot of things that Reagan did domestically, even things that GHW Bush did, domestically, that helped level things out, lessen discrimination, remove taxes on the poor. It's really a mixed bag. I'd say Reagan/Bush on domestic social/economic issues, were okay, on foreign policy and the environment, they were pretty bad.
Quote:
I would never vote Tory (if I still lived in the UK). I much too left of centre for that. In the US, I'd probably be branded a communist and booted out of the country but views are considered pretty mild here.
Lol. The American left is far more radical than it lets on. The democratic party and the republican party are almost politically indistinguishable. This is an inevitable result of a two party system.
if 1 were lenin and 10 were pinochet, then the republicans would be sitting at 5.1 and the democrats at 4.9. The reason is, you only have to be one step to the left or right to capture the whole voting population on that side. It' like if I'm thinking of a number from 1 to 100, see who's closest, and I guess 50, your logical guess would be 51.
The american votership is very very different. There are a lot of people on the left who think Obama is way too far to the right. Then he has his devout admirers, and then moderate right who sort of tentatively support him but reserve judgment, like me (politically. Personally, he's one of the nicer presidents we've had, the guy you'd actually want to know. I'd never ever want to meet the Bushes or the Clintons.) To the right of that there are the free-market right who fear socialism, the christian right who think he's a secret muslim, and then the media-right, who fear he's a secret muslim and so won't support israel, and then there's the GOP who just oppose him because he's a democrat and make up reasons to oppose him.
Quote:
Sure, well it was encouraged by the government in the worst possible way. Aboriginal children of mixed blood were taken from their families and brought up with white parents so they could integrate - these people are now referred to as the 'Stolen Generation' All in all it was considered so bad to be Aboriginal - they didn't even get the vote until 1967 - that people hid it if they could. A shameful part of our history. I'm not sure if you heard about our Prime Minister's apology when he was eleNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME