Is Fox News the US version of Pravda?

POSTED BY: SoupCatcher
UPDATED: Friday, October 24, 2025 17:07
VIEWED: 8612
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RAZZA

Friday, July 27, 2007 6:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
I'm not convinced that my "entire arguement was completely false." I still think the headline that Fox News put up was Pravda-esque (as we were taught to think of Pravda when I was growing up). What I did do was get sloppy and set myself up for an easy jujitsuing with that one line.

Yup. I made a mistake with that argument.

You were jujitsued because the premise of your arguement is flawed. My understanding is that it is your belief that Fox News only reports one side of the story and does so with extreme bias in every case. I'm sure you also noticed that the video I linked to was actually somewhat supportive of your assertion that they are biased as the website pointed out that:

Quote:
...Fox news legal analyst Andrew Napolitano spins the verdict for the defense, arguing that there is a basis for Libby’s defense counsel to say the jury “misunderstood the nature of the charges” and was “hopelessly confused.”

It would have been smarter of me to post a couple of nano-second screen grabs from the video like these:

Instead of the full video link, much like you did with your original screen grab about Libby getting off. It's a misleading discussion technique which you have used to full effect in this entire thread. Unfortunately, it is also easily countered by simply pointing to the obvious.

*Edited to add:
Pravda would never have aired anything which countered the first statement! Sorry, again you are wrong, Fox News was not in the least bit Pravda-esque

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---Andrew Carnegie

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---Roger Ebert

SOUPCATCHER

Friday, July 27, 2007 6:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Razza:
Instead of the full video link, much like you did with your original screen grab about Libby getting off. It's a misleading discussion technique which you have used to full effect in this entire thread. Unfortunately, it is also easily countered by simply pointing to the obvious.

Which brings up an interesting question: how would you have gone about making the argument that Fox News is a GOP version of Pravda? (leaving aside whether or not you agree with the claim).

One of my goals for my time here in RWED is to improve my skills at argumentation for when I'm talking about things with my right-wing family members and friends. So what should I have done differently with my argument to be more effective?

RAZZA

Friday, July 27, 2007 7:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
Which brings up an interesting question: how would you have gone about making the argument that Fox News is a GOP version of Pravda? (leaving aside whether or not you agree with the claim).

One of my goals for my time here in RWED is to improve my skills at argumentation for when I'm talking about things with my right-wing family members and friends. So what should I have done differently with my argument to be more effective?

Well, I'm no discussion thread expert, but it would kind of depend on who your target audience is. If you are trying to convince people who are on the complete opposite end of the arguement from yourself you would obviously want to take a different approach than with someone who is "on the fence" so to speak. I would start by not being so absolute with your initial statement. Absolutes tend to divide and immediately put folks on the defensive. Once hunkered down in their position because of what is percevied as an attack they are unlikely to be convinced otherwise while in that frame of mind. They may in retrospect reconsider, but I think that is unlikely. I have been in many discussions with family members and friends who are on the opposite end of the political spectrum as myself, and I've found that calm, assured, and reasoned arguments are much more likely to convince than passionate, combative, and confontational ones.

We live in a political atmosphere today which thrives on the confrontational, however. It's makes for better headlines, sells more papers, and seems to be more interesting to watch. In the end though, it just divides us more deeply. Confrontational politics may raise more campaign money and bring more publicity for a candidate, but it also tends to have the net effect of making us all more closed minded. Afterall, its easy to just stop listening to that "right wing nut" Auraptor than to actually consider what he says and maybe find something you might agree with. No..No...much easier to turn the volume down and not bother thinking about it.

I've chimed in from time to time on these threads to say similar things, but I find it more and more difficult to make the effort. "What is the point?," I often ask myself. No one seems to be truly open minded in a discussion thread these days...No, No...much easier to just go find a funny video on YouTube and get a good laugh.

Wow, more philosophical than I meant to be...off to YouTube!

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"There is not such a cradle of democracy upon the earth as the Free Public Library, this republic of letters, where neither rank, office, nor wealth receives the slightest consideration."
---Andrew Carnegie

"Doing research on the Web is like using a library assembled piecemeal by pack rats and vandalized nightly."
---Roger Ebert

SOUPCATCHER

Friday, July 27, 2007 8:02 PM

Thanks, Razza. I pretty much agree with everything you wrote and I want to add something from my own experience. Some of my family and friends, who fit the classic definition of RWAuthoritarian followers (as described by Bob Altemeyer in his work), see any admission of error as a sign of weakness. I come more from the philosophy of, "if you're not making mistakes you're not trying hard enough." That's a pretty fundamental disconnect.

AURAPTOR

Saturday, July 28, 2007 12:22 AM

Rightious9 - another false statement.

I never said that CNN spins things per Michael Moore. Quite the contrary, they nailed his lying ass for the fraud he really is. Gupta might not have said that Moore fudged the facts, but that's exactly what he did, whether Gupta stated as such or not.

Why is this so hard for you to follow??

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

AURAPTOR

Saturday, July 28, 2007 12:14 PM

Thanks Razza! I think we all learned something from your input. FOX can be called on it's giving a positive spin for the Right, but I'd offer that's no more than what the rest of the channels do for the Left. That FOX doesn't parrot what CNN says gets picked up by folks who are use to hearing the news framed one way, and when they notice the difference, some are likely to yell 'foul'.

I kinda see FOX as playing Devil's advocate to the rest of the media. Where as the list of alphabet soup news organizations will offer a report one way, FOX dares to come out and say " oh, really? What if the facts conclude something eles ? " After a life time of hearing news givne by one side, I find it refreshing to hear another perspective.

Different ? Yes
Pravda or flat out shilling for the GOP ? Nope.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

RIGHTEOUS9

Saturday, July 28, 2007 3:52 PM

Auraptor -

"I've brought as much, if not more , than you. CNN only spins it's mistakes one way too, so I guess we're even on those points."

This was your statement I was referring to. So if CNN doesn't spin things per Michael Moore and liberals, then do you mean by "one way too", also towards big business interests, which is as far from liberal as you can get? I'm glad we're in agreement.

And what of the plainly untrue assertions CNN made about SICKO that they actually had to retract? Granted, FOX news would be unlikely to do the same. Maybe that's what you mean by left leaning.

By the way, if Michael Moore did fudge facts that's one thing, but CNN's report failed to prove that. Instead they cast doubt on their own reporting by choosing easily refutable evidence to illustrate their point. Or perhaps that was their clever plan to appear to be right leaning, giving big daddy Moore an opportunity to look both persecuted by the media and ultimately vindicated.

Wow, first the X on Cheney, now this. Devious Turnerites.

ANTIMASON

Sunday, July 29, 2007 12:12 AM

there is a handful of media conglomerates, worldwide, who control the major communication and entertainment venues, so it is more pervasive and complex then this Fox news or left/right wing bias. practically everything, save for the internet, now exists within this false paradigm. there was a deliberate motive over time, by elite interests and private corporations, to monopolize the media(to harness government), and people have been too stubborn for too long, in admitting to themselves that this global government conspiracy is real, and it IS the agenda(period)

PIRATENEWS

Tuesday, July 31, 2007 2:31 AM

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6IXSTRINGJACK

Tuesday, July 31, 2007 4:47 AM

Quote:
The myth of the "liberal media conspiracy" is one of the bedrocks of the modern day American movement conservative (and I'm purposefully using the phrase "movement conservative" rather than "conservative"). Just look at the responses in this thread and you'll see that the myth is alive and well.

Right spoony... because as we all know, I'm just about as big a NeoCon as you can get. I am a zombie puppet of the evil right. All praise be God W. Bush!

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