Tea Party protesters are civil, bathed and decent.

POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Sunday, April 26, 2009 16:18
VIEWED: 14086
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AURAPTOR

Thursday, April 16, 2009 1:43 AM

Unlike those ....

I won't even go there.

Props to the folks down at the GA Tea Party, and everywhere, for showing it's not 'anti' OBAMA, but instead Pro Freedom! Left , Right, Black, White, Brown, Yellow, we ALL hold these truths to be self evident...

“A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have."

OUT2THEBLACK

Thursday, April 16, 2009 1:59 AM

Right on all points this time , Rap...

Good of you to bring this...

JONGSSTRAW

Thursday, April 16, 2009 1:06 PM

What the morally bankrupt and corrupt politicians of today need is a good ole' fashioned tarring & feathering. Seeing Pelosi, Dodd, Barney Frank and others run out of Washington under the lashings of a cat-o-nine-tails, then stripped and covered in hot tar, would be the justice they deserve. Colonial rebels in Boston did it to the King's tax agents. Further protestations against domestic tyranny grew to outright insurrection, which was the spark that led to the birth of our nation.

KWICKO

Thursday, April 16, 2009 4:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
What the morally bankrupt and corrupt politicians of today need is a good ole' fashioned tarring & feathering. Seeing Pelosi, Dodd, Barney Frank and others run out of Washington under the lashings of a cat-o-nine-tails, then stripped and covered in hot tar, would be the justice they deserve. Colonial rebels in Boston did it to the King's tax agents. Further protestations against domestic tyranny grew to outright insurrection, which was the spark that led to the birth of our nation.

And yet you were oddly silent while the Bush administration put all these policies in place...

You're not so much against tyranny itself - you're just against it when you think it's being imposed upon you from the left. If it comes from the right, you'll GLADLY bend over and take it.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

OUT2THEBLACK

Thursday, April 16, 2009 4:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
What the morally bankrupt and corrupt politicians of today need is a good ole' fashioned tarring & feathering...

...Further protestations against domestic tyranny grew to outright insurrection, which was the spark that led to the birth of our nation.

There's plenty of morally bankrupt and corrupt on both sides of the aisle...

Let's not be excludin' people...That'd be rude !

Of the 535 in Congress , probably 530 of them need to be sent a message in the strongest of terms...

And whoever drafted that DHS document referencing emerging 'right-wing extremism' should be among the first in line , right after their 'superiors'...

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

Thursday, April 16, 2009 5:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
And yet you were oddly silent while the Bush administration put all these policies in place...

You're not so much against tyranny itself - you're just against it when you think it's being imposed upon you from the left. If it comes from the right, you'll GLADLY bend over and take it.

I'm so glad you posted that, because it serves the purpose of pointing out how harmful divisive retoric has become. At the Indianapolis Tea Party yesterday this point was made again and again:

"You are here because your government has become tryanical. You are as angry at the CURRENT state of tyranny as the PREVIOUS. You are not a 'Republican' or a 'Democrat'. You are an american."

My tea party rally was not absent of democrats. Pleanty of hoosier dems were at my event with their own signs declaring what all of us felt, that taxing the people for one penny more than is needed to run the government is robbery.

I took a great picture with myself (libertarian) standing with a well known local GOP state rep and a Dem activist. We were just one Tea Party of 3000 true, but there were 800 rallies total. And this was REAL BI-PARTISAN GRASSROOTS ACTIVISM. Nowhere in the crowd were people bussed in like the Acorn folks are known to do. These were plumbers, doctors, contractors, farmers, service workers, ect... We were all americans united for 2 hours. Politicans were barred from speaking. And plenty wanted to! This was an event the likes of which has not been seen for a long long time. I was honored to be a small part of mine. Our keynote speaker was the reinactor Thomas Payne. He delivered a wonderful speech about Common Sense. I wish I could explain how awsome his words were to hear, but I don't have to. Listen for yourself:

JONGSSTRAW

Thursday, April 16, 2009 5:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
And yet you were oddly silent while the Bush administration put all these policies in place...

You're not so much against tyranny itself - you're just against it when you think it's being imposed upon you from the left. If it comes from the right, you'll GLADLY bend over and take it.

I'm so glad you posted that, because it serves the purpose of pointing out how harmful divisive retoric has become. At the Indianapolis Tea Party yesterday this point was made again and again:

"You are here because your government has become tryanical. You are as angry at the CURRENT state of tyranny as the PREVIOUS. You are not a "republican" or a "Democrat". You are an american."

My tea party rally was not absent of democrats. Pleanty of hoosier dems were at my event with their own signs declaring what all of us felt, that taxing the people for one penny more than is needed to run the government is robbery.

I took a great picture with myself (libertarian) standing with a well known local GOP state rep and a Dem activist. We were just one Tea Party of 3000 true, but there were 800 rallies total. And this was REAL BI-PARTISAN GRASSROOTS ACTIVISM. Nowhere in the crowd were people bussed in like the Acorn folks are known to do. These were plumbers, doctors, contractors, farmers, service workers, ect... We were all americans united for 2 hours. Politicans were barred from speaking. And plenty wanted to! This was an event the likes of which has not been seen for a long long time. I was honored to be a small part of mine.

Great post! You're wasting your time responding to a hopelessly hateful of Bush victim though. Bush did all sorts of bad things to this poor pathetic whiner. He cannot function on a human level any longer. Everything he thinks and does is all hate-Bush related. It consumes his katra. We're doing a case study on the phenomenon here, with many of his sadly pitiful kindred Bush haters taking part. Some are showing some limited progress, but it doesn't look good for a real recovery any time soon.

JONGSSTRAW

Thursday, April 16, 2009 5:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by out2theblack:
[Of the 535 in Congress , probably 530 of them need to be sent a message in the strongest of terms...

And whoever drafted that DHS document referencing emerging 'right-wing extremism' should be among the first in line , right after their 'superiors'..

What message would that be? Is Harry Reid or Nancy Pelosi going to listen to your message? Best solution is to slip Bill Ayers a C note, and let him blow up the Capitol Bldg. That would send a message the Liberals would just love....their very own chickens come home to roost.

SERGEANTX

Thursday, April 16, 2009 5:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Some are showing some limited progress, but it doesn't look good for a real recovery any time soon.

Sad but true. Even in a best-case-scenario, the damage done by the Bush administration will be with us for decades.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

Thursday, April 16, 2009 5:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
We're doing a case study on the phenomenon here, with many of his sadly pitiful kindred Bush haters taking part. Some are showing some limited progress, but it doesn't look good for a real recovery any time soon.

It's very strange to me how I'll have a discussion of a subject & then immediately hear it again from another direction. A main focus of talk amongst Tea Partiers (100's of strangers talking amongst themselves after the event ended) was how EMOTION always clouds REASON. Politically, the extension of that subject has been how angry, seething, bush-hating people cannot let go of the past. Some cannot even come to terms with the fact that everything is different. Totally and radically different. So intense is the anger that there is no true focus to the emotion anymore. It blasts out in all directions in the form of empty divisive retoric. These things have happened before with Nixon, though few of us were alive then to know it. I wasn't.

The important thing for us yesterday was the awareness of going forward, and to stop thinking about what's past. These events are being painted by the press as being "radical right-wing" but if that was true why were there so many "Bush was Terrible" catcalls at mine? If it was right-wing why do I have pictures of proudly desplayed Dem signs? Please listen to Thomas Payne in the youtube vid. He is not partisian. Not at all. And the issues he raise cut right down the center of the polarized retroic. Please attend his words as he repeats again and again the phrase "Your non-Representing Representitives" It's because of him that I now have a new quote:

Tolerance is the virtue of a dying society. -Aristotle

KWICKO

Thursday, April 16, 2009 5:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:
Originally posted by out2theblack:
[Of the 535 in Congress , probably 530 of them need to be sent a message in the strongest of terms...

And whoever drafted that DHS document referencing emerging 'right-wing extremism' should be among the first in line , right after their 'superiors'..

What message would that be? Is Harry Reid or Nancy Pelosi going to listen to your message? Best solution is to slip Bill Ayers a C note, and let him blow up the Capitol Bldg. That would send a message the Liberals would just love....their very own chickens come home to roost.

Thank you for proving the point of the DHS memo! You ARE a batshit-crazy right-wing nutcase!

Expect a knock on the door very soon... I'm sure DHS will be glad to read your words here.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

KWICKO

Thursday, April 16, 2009 5:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:
Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
And yet you were oddly silent while the Bush administration put all these policies in place...

You're not so much against tyranny itself - you're just against it when you think it's being imposed upon you from the left. If it comes from the right, you'll GLADLY bend over and take it.

I'm so glad you posted that, because it serves the purpose of pointing out how harmful divisive retoric has become. At the Indianapolis Tea Party yesterday this point was made again and again:

"You are here because your government has become tryanical. You are as angry at the CURRENT state of tyranny as the PREVIOUS. You are not a "republican" or a "Democrat". You are an american."

My tea party rally was not absent of democrats. Pleanty of hoosier dems were at my event with their own signs declaring what all of us felt, that taxing the people for one penny more than is needed to run the government is robbery.

I took a great picture with myself (libertarian) standing with a well known local GOP state rep and a Dem activist. We were just one Tea Party of 3000 true, but there were 800 rallies total. And this was REAL BI-PARTISAN GRASSROOTS ACTIVISM. Nowhere in the crowd were people bussed in like the Acorn folks are known to do. These were plumbers, doctors, contractors, farmers, service workers, ect... We were all americans united for 2 hours. Politicans were barred from speaking. And plenty wanted to! This was an event the likes of which has not been seen for a long long time. I was honored to be a small part of mine.

Great post! You're wasting your time responding to a hopelessly hateful of Bush victim though. Bush did all sorts of bad things to this poor pathetic whiner. He cannot function on a human level any longer. Everything he thinks and does is all hate-Bush related. It consumes his katra. We're doing a case study on the phenomenon here, with many of his sadly pitiful kindred Bush haters taking part. Some are showing some limited progress, but it doesn't look good for a real recovery any time soon.

You're wasting your time responding to a hopelessly hateful group of Obama haters, though. Obama did all sorts of bad things to this poor pathetic whiner. Jongsie cannot function on a human level any longer. Everything he thinks and does is all hate-Obama related.

Damn, Jongs... I thought you were going to take the gloves off and REALLY let us have it from now on. Apparently, gloves on or gloves off, you're still the same pathetic lightweight you've always shown yourself to be.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

KWICKO

Thursday, April 16, 2009 6:02 PM

Quote:

Tolerance is the virtue of a dying society. -Aristotle

That's not a quote I'd be particularly proud to display, Blue. It implies the opposite - that for a society to LIVE, it must be INTOLERANT. The Third Reich tried that; it didn't work out too well for them.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

Thursday, April 16, 2009 6:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
You're wasting your time responding to a hopelessly hateful group of Obama haters, though. Obama did all sorts of bad things to this poor pathetic whiner.

Grr Arg.
This is what I'm talking about. Stop being polarized. Stop thinking about these subjects as if it's all binary code. Red State/Blue State. Bush hater/Obama Hater. Fox News/MSNBC.

What I saw yesterday gave me hope. Real True Tangible Hope.

JONGSSTRAW

Thursday, April 16, 2009 6:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:
It's very strange to me how I'll have a discussion of a subject & then immediately hear it again from another direction. A main focus of talk amongst Tea Partiers (100's of strangers talking amongst themselves after the event ended) was how EMOTION always clouds REASON. Politically, the extension of that subject has been how angry, seething, bush-hating people cannot let go of the past. Some cannot even come to terms with the fact that everything is different. Totally and radically different. So intense is the anger that there is no true focus to the emotion anymore. It blasts out in all directions in the form of empty divisive retoric. These things have happened before with Nixon, though few of us were alive then to know it. I wasn't.

The important thing for us yesterday was the awareness of going forward, and to stop thinking about what's past. These events are being painted by the press as being "radical right-wing" but if that was true why were there so many "Bush was Terrible" catcalls at mine? If it was right-wing why do I have pictures of proudly desplayed Dem signs? Please listen to Thomas Payne in the youtube vid. He is not partisian. Not at all. And the issues he raise cut right down the center of the polarized retroic.

I think all that is very noble. I also think it's very naive. The Left has consistently shown nothing but vitriolic hatred for anyone opposed to their views, and they also love to parade out their useful idiot moderate Republicans whenever they can. John McCain went on Letterman and The View. All they did was mock and scorn him, but the semi-senile media-starved like-me whore left utterly clueless each time. This Obama disaster is multi-layered. Govt. bailouts and redistribution of wealth are only a small part of the problem. Forgive me for not singing Kumbaya just yet.

JONGSSTRAW

Thursday, April 16, 2009 6:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:
Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
And yet you were oddly silent while the Bush administration put all these policies in place...

You're not so much against tyranny itself - you're just against it when you think it's being imposed upon you from the left. If it comes from the right, you'll GLADLY bend over and take it.

I'm so glad you posted that, because it serves the purpose of pointing out how harmful divisive retoric has become. At the Indianapolis Tea Party yesterday this point was made again and again:

"You are here because your government has become tryanical. You are as angry at the CURRENT state of tyranny as the PREVIOUS. You are not a "republican" or a "Democrat". You are an american."

My tea party rally was not absent of democrats. Pleanty of hoosier dems were at my event with their own signs declaring what all of us felt, that taxing the people for one penny more than is needed to run the government is robbery.

I took a great picture with myself (libertarian) standing with a well known local GOP state rep and a Dem activist. We were just one Tea Party of 3000 true, but there were 800 rallies total. And this was REAL BI-PARTISAN GRASSROOTS ACTIVISM. Nowhere in the crowd were people bussed in like the Acorn folks are known to do. These were plumbers, doctors, contractors, farmers, service workers, ect... We were all americans united for 2 hours. Politicans were barred from speaking. And plenty wanted to! This was an event the likes of which has not been seen for a long long time. I was honored to be a small part of mine.

Great post! You're wasting your time responding to a hopelessly hateful of Bush victim though. Bush did all sorts of bad things to this poor pathetic whiner. He cannot function on a human level any longer. Everything he thinks and does is all hate-Bush related. It consumes his katra. We're doing a case study on the phenomenon here, with many of his sadly pitiful kindred Bush haters taking part. Some are showing some limited progress, but it doesn't look good for a real recovery any time soon.

You're wasting your time responding to a hopelessly hateful group of Obama haters, though. Obama did all sorts of bad things to this poor pathetic whiner. Jongsie cannot function on a human level any longer. Everything he thinks and does is all hate-Obama related.

Damn, Jongs... I thought you were going to take the gloves off and REALLY let us have it from now on. Apparently, gloves on or gloves off, you're still the same pathetic lightweight you've always shown yourself to be.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

You can only plagorize my posts, then have the balls to call me lightweight? You are fucking delusional. And by the way, I've already placed a call to Bill Ayer's office. So far the gutless puke hasn't called back. That's typical of your heroes.

KWICKO

Thursday, April 16, 2009 6:11 PM

Quote:
The Left has consistently shown nothing but vitriolic hatred for anyone opposed to their views...

Yeah, remember how The Left went around telling everyone they had to "support the troops" or get the hell out of the country? And remember how The Left called anyone who didn't hate the French a bunch of surrender-monkeys and terrorist-loving freedom-haters?

Man, those Lefties sure are vitriolic...

[/sarcasm]

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

KWICKO

Thursday, April 16, 2009 6:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:
Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
And yet you were oddly silent while the Bush administration put all these policies in place...

You're not so much against tyranny itself - you're just against it when you think it's being imposed upon you from the left. If it comes from the right, you'll GLADLY bend over and take it.

I'm so glad you posted that, because it serves the purpose of pointing out how harmful divisive retoric has become. At the Indianapolis Tea Party yesterday this point was made again and again:

"You are here because your government has become tryanical. You are as angry at the CURRENT state of tyranny as the PREVIOUS. You are not a "republican" or a "Democrat". You are an american."

My tea party rally was not absent of democrats. Pleanty of hoosier dems were at my event with their own signs declaring what all of us felt, that taxing the people for one penny more than is needed to run the government is robbery.

I took a great picture with myself (libertarian) standing with a well known local GOP state rep and a Dem activist. We were just one Tea Party of 3000 true, but there were 800 rallies total. And this was REAL BI-PARTISAN GRASSROOTS ACTIVISM. Nowhere in the crowd were people bussed in like the Acorn folks are known to do. These were plumbers, doctors, contractors, farmers, service workers, ect... We were all americans united for 2 hours. Politicans were barred from speaking. And plenty wanted to! This was an event the likes of which has not been seen for a long long time. I was honored to be a small part of mine.

Great post! You're wasting your time responding to a hopelessly hateful of Bush victim though. Bush did all sorts of bad things to this poor pathetic whiner. He cannot function on a human level any longer. Everything he thinks and does is all hate-Bush related. It consumes his katra. We're doing a case study on the phenomenon here, with many of his sadly pitiful kindred Bush haters taking part. Some are showing some limited progress, but it doesn't look good for a real recovery any time soon.

You're wasting your time responding to a hopelessly hateful group of Obama haters, though. Obama did all sorts of bad things to this poor pathetic whiner. Jongsie cannot function on a human level any longer. Everything he thinks and does is all hate-Obama related.

Damn, Jongs... I thought you were going to take the gloves off and REALLY let us have it from now on. Apparently, gloves on or gloves off, you're still the same pathetic lightweight you've always shown yourself to be.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

You can only plagorize my posts, then have the balls to call me lightweight? You are fucking delusional. And by the way, I've already placed a call to Bill Ayer's office. So far the gutless puke hasn't called back. That's typical of your heroes.

I can only WHAT?

By the way, I've already placed a call to DHS and the FBI, and sent them e-mail copies of your posts about blowing up the capitol building. I bet my guys will get in touch with you before Bill Ayers will...

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

Thursday, April 16, 2009 6:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

I think all that is very noble. I also think it's very naive.

And your point is not lost on me. Yes it can be percieved as naive. True. But I will say this..the same could have been said to the patriots of the 1770's prior to the war. At that time a growing minority were disgruntled, fighting as they did against the Stamp Act of 1765, the Townshend acts of 1767, the Tea Act of 1773, or the Intolerable acts of 1774. To resist the supreme power of the combined might of the British Empire by a meer few was indeed regarded as naive (or more often foolish). But when the frustration grew...and grew....and grew...what was once naive became menacing.

One reason I love Firefly so much are the ideals of the Independents. They bled and died for planetary sovergnity. Who can protect us from Scavengers, or harsh conditions? From Slavers or Reavers? The Alliance? NO! We must stand on our own legs! We have the right to self govern. That fiction created by Joss Whedon resonates as loudly in my ears as the truth of the American Revolution. Those were the people who proclaimed 'Give Me Liberty or Death', and meant it.

I saw a lot of things at yesterday's tea party. There were even some scant counter-protestors. But their efforts were such a waste, they had no message. And then I saw the grand absurdity of a downtown panhandler gravitate towards the mass of humanity thinking this was like a Colts game or something where he could fleece beer/drug money. What he encountered was a mass of people who had heard speeches on the subject of self-suffenciecy and when he started begging I thought the people were going to tar him.

JONGSSTRAW

Thursday, April 16, 2009 6:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

I think all that is very noble. I also think it's very naive.

And your point is not lost on me. Yes it can be percieved as naive. True. But I will say this..the same could have been said to the patriots of the 1770's prior to the war. At that time a growing minority were disgruntled, fighting as they did against the Stamp Act of 1765, the Townshend acts of 1767, the Tea Act of 1773, or the Intolerable acts of 1774. To resist the supreme power of the combined might of the British Empire by a meer few was indeed regarded as naive (or more often foolish). But when the frustration grew...and grew....and grew...what was once naive became menacing.

One reason I love Firefly so much are the ideals of the Independents. They bled and died for planetary sovergnity. Who can protect us from Scavengers, or harsh conditions? From Slavers or Reavers? The Alliance? NO! We must stand on our own legs! We have the right to self govern. That fiction created by Joss Whedon resonates as loudly in my ears as the truth of the American Revolution. Those were the people who proclaimed 'Give Me Liberty or Death', and meant it.

That's very well written BSCM. You have moved me, and I'm going to re-watch the John Adams series this weekend because of it. I wish you success in your goals.

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

Thursday, April 16, 2009 6:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
That's very well written BSCM. You have moved me, and I'm going to re-watch the John Adams series this weekend because of it. I wish you success in your goals.

I've mentioned this before on here, I'm making a 2 minute 30 second Firefly Fan film short based around the subject of the values of the Independents and their failed struggle for Liberty. I hope to be done with it by November 2009.

I'm trying to combine my libertarian values system with Firefly lore to squeeze out something that might resonate, and appeal to Joss Whedon to tell the tale of the Unification War.

At the Tea Party I thought I ought to bring my Independent Faction Flag (Green, yellow, upsidedown star) to fly along side the american flags, Don't tread on Me Gadsaden Banners, & 13 star flags....but I knew nobody would understand. So I just took my Gadsaden Flag. People often remark to me that it's strange I even have one....but at the Tea Party I was certainly not unique at all.

SIGNYM

Thursday, April 16, 2009 6:36 PM

Quote:
What I saw yesterday gave me hope. Real True Tangible Hope.

For what?

What I saw was a bunch of people "mad as hell" about all kinds of stuff which had its genesis in the BUSH administration. Where were they four years ago???

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

YINYANG

Thursday, April 16, 2009 6:38 PM

Yeah, the Founding Fathers were great, liberty-believing people, alright... if you overlook the theft of Native American lands, and all those slaves they owned, and the fact that they didn't give women the vote (among other things)...

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

Thursday, April 16, 2009 6:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
What I saw was a bunch of people "mad as hell" about all kinds of stuff which had its genesis in the BUSH administration. Where were they four years ago???

We've always been here. The phrase "The Silent Majority" In Thomas Payne's message speaks to it. When all you have is polarized media talking to you in binary code (Red/Blue) then you yourself begin to speak it. The assumption that these protestors were all conservatives is more retroic. Don't ask "Where were these people when Bush was the president, this all started with him". NO! Ask "Where were these people when Woodrow Wilson Signed the Federal Reserve Act of 1913? Where were they when the gold standard ended under Roosevelt in 1933? Where were they when nukes were allowed to proliferate in the 50's under Eisenhower? Where were they when the silver standard was repealed in 1971 under Nixon? Where were they when our borders were thrown open in the 80's under Reagan? Where were they when spending started it's relentless unending climb under Bush the Elder? Where were they when we doled out billions abroad to countries that hated us under Clinton? Where were they these last 8 years when Bush the younger threatened our liberties with things like the patriot act? WHERE????

Those Presidents I listed are the figureheads. They are not the body that makes the laws. You say "These things had their genesis under the Bush Administration" NO!!!! NONONONONONO!!!!
Congress! Look to the capitol building & not the executive mansion I say! The greatest error espoused by the citizenry is always "This happened under Bush" or "This is all Clinton's fault" or whatever. This is how the non-representating representatives get away with tyranny year-to-year. If congressmen believed...honestly believed....that their re-election bids were in question for not representing their constituencies, this would be a far different country.

Remember that the job of the president is to Enforce the Laws. That is all.

KWICKO

Thursday, April 16, 2009 7:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:
What I saw yesterday gave me hope. Real True Tangible Hope.
For what?

What I saw was a bunch of people "mad as hell" about all kinds of stuff which had its genesis in the BUSH administration. Where were they four years ago???

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

Exactly!

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

SERGEANTX

Thursday, April 16, 2009 7:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
What I saw was a bunch of people "mad as hell" about all kinds of stuff which had its genesis in the BUSH administration. Where were they four years ago???

Hiding in the corner with the national media and the pathetic Democratic opposition?

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

SIGNYM

Thursday, April 16, 2009 7:32 PM

Quote:
Tea Party protesters are civil, bathed and decent

Except those that aren't....

Quote:
What message would that be? Is Harry Reid or Nancy Pelosi going to listen to your message? Best solution is to slip Bill Ayers a C note, and let him blow up the Capitol Bldg. That would send a message the Liberals would just love....their very own chickens come home to roost.

Jongsstraw, do you need to be reminded that you sound like a right-wing nutcase advocating assassination and sedition? That this places in the very same category as those who you CLAIM to despise as "un -American"? That your hypocrisy seems pretty typical of the right-wing?

I know Kwicko already has, but its a point worth repeating.

If you EVER call anyone out on their lack of patriotism again, I'll hound you into the next life!

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

Thursday, April 16, 2009 9:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:
Tea Party protesters are civil, bathed and decent
Except those that aren't....

Perhaps like the fellow who stank of beer sweat who kept walking around in my area with a sign he wanted everyone to read.

That rank smell always reminds me of the ole college days.

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

Thursday, April 16, 2009 9:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
That's not a quote I'd be particularly proud to display, Blue. It implies the opposite - that for a society to LIVE, it must be INTOLERANT. The Third Reich tried that; it didn't work out too well for them.

K,
Watch the youtube vid. He's quite clear about the tolerance of tyranny. If you watch his other video, (should show up in the related videos section) he will profer Aristotle at the end. You must hear it in context. Don't create your own context K, that is the mistake of all political drones...left or right.

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:12 PM

Guys, ladies,...

You should be thankful that these folks didn't rush the White House with guns drawn.

Believe me, there were enough here to take it over.

And I doubt Obams little bitch would have been able to stop them... (I'm, of course, referring to his dog..)

SIGNYM

Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:14 PM

Quote:
You should be thankful that these folks didn't rush the White House with guns drawn.

Then they should be mowed down with machine guns. Shame on you, Wulf!

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:44 PM

"Then they should be mowed down with machine guns. Shame on you, Wulf!"

Well, wouldn't that be the first battle of the next revolution?

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Well, wouldn't that be the first battle of the next revolution?

I know your anger Wulf. I feel it too and saw it yesterday for myself. But Lincoln himself said as the Civil War ended that he hoped the virtues of america would be expressed with Ballots, not Bullets.

This was repeated at each Tea Party.

OUT2THEBLACK

Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:

I've mentioned this before on here, I'm making a 2 minute 30 second Firefly Fan film short based around the subject of the values of the Independents and their failed struggle for Liberty. I hope to be done with it by November 2009.

I'm trying to combine my libertarian values system with Firefly lore to squeeze out something that might resonate, and appeal to Joss Whedon to tell the tale of the Unification War.

Look forward to seein' what you make...

You have a lot of good ideas...

I wonder if Joss could end-run the
F-network's 'Firefly' rights with the Unification War story told in alternative media ?
(comics or Net-delivered content , etc.)

New Stories told in our 'Verse , and timely , too...

SIGNYM

Thursday, April 16, 2009 11:34 PM

Quote:
Well, wouldn't that be the first battle of the next revolution?

Wulf, you're nothing more than an angry man looking to shoot somebody, something, anything.... instead of using the avenues that are ALREADY open to you.

You're a right-wing lunatic too.

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

WULFENSTAR

Friday, April 17, 2009 12:08 AM

"Wulf, you're nothing more than an angry man looking to shoot somebody, something, anything.... instead of using the avenues that are ALREADY open to you.

You're a right-wing lunatic too."

Well, if that isn't a bit mean...?

STORYMARK

Friday, April 17, 2009 12:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
You're wasting your time responding to a hopelessly hateful group of Obama haters, though. Obama did all sorts of bad things to this poor pathetic whiner.
Grr Arg.
This is what I'm talking about. Stop being polarized. Stop thinking about these subjects as if it's all binary code. Red State/Blue State. Bush hater/Obama Hater. Fox News/MSNBC.

What I saw yesterday gave me hope. Real True Tangible Hope.

Not that I disagree with your point, but I felt it worth noting that you felt fit to chastise Kwiko and not Jong for literally the same words...

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

STORYMARK

Friday, April 17, 2009 12:20 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

The Left has consistently shown nothing but vitriolic hatred for anyone opposed to their views,

*Chuckle*

Yea, the right's just been full of warm & fuzzies all this time. Very accepting group, them.

Thanks for the laugh, though.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

FREMDFIRMA

Friday, April 17, 2009 12:23 AM

Been here and out there bitching for all four years of Shrub, and Clinton and NAFTA, and Reagan and his fucking trickledown...

Some folks don't like that shit from neither party.

Sure, there's some folks hiding sour grapes behind this, but a lot of em are POed about the taxes and especially what they're being used for, so it's not that bad a thing, honestly.

And we don't NEED to rush the white house, Wulf, just marginalize it by firing all these go along to get along assholes in congress and installing folk who can and will roadblock their more dimwitted ideas.

And if you're gonna "tar and feather" use dark corn syrup instead of tar, the most you'll do is ruin their overpriced suit - it sends the message without physically harming no one, cause we're not at a point where we'd need to, and it would be counterproductive and give "them" the kind of excuse they're lookin for.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

JONGSSTRAW

Friday, April 17, 2009 12:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Jongsstraw, do you need to be reminded that you sound like a right-wing nutcase advocating assassination and sedition? That this places in the very same category as those who you CLAIM to despise as "un -American"? That your hypocrisy seems pretty typical of the right-wing?

If you EVER call anyone out on their lack of patriotism again, I'll hound you into the next life!

You really are one truly delusional ass. Hey, Bill Ayers blows up buildings...that's what he does, and what he advocates. He's close to all your Obama twats in power now who are hell-bent to fuck up the country for generations. I didn't create that Obama/Ayers situation, so why not just go slither off to wherever little pathetic pointy-fingered rat-fucks like you & Kwiikfucko go hide in between your self-rightous and laughable postings.

SIGNYM

Friday, April 17, 2009 12:47 AM

Wulf, you just seem so ready to go off. It comes through in too many of your posts: It's gotta be your way, or face guns. You don't seem to like people speaking their minds (if they disagree with you) and you seem way too ready to make "them" "pay"... sometimes for things "they" didn't do, or for stuff that hasn't happened, or sometimes it seems even for stuff that perhaps you yourself aren't sure about.

Which is a shame, cause you seem like an honorable guy.

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

SIGNYM

Friday, April 17, 2009 12:57 AM

Jongsstraw, I'm truly honored that you place me in the same category as Kwicko, altho I think you're mistaken: He's smarter than me and waaaaay smarter than you. Only you're too stupid to realize it!

BTW- it doesn't matter if you hide behind Ayers. If I were to say that I hope the right wing gun-nuts go off and obliterate all Republican Congressmen, pretty much the same stuff. Trying to wash your hand like Pontius Pilate doesn't make you look any better, it just makes you look like a weasel.

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

KWICKO

Friday, April 17, 2009 1:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Jongsstraw, do you need to be reminded that you sound like a right-wing nutcase advocating assassination and sedition? That this places in the very same category as those who you CLAIM to despise as "un -American"? That your hypocrisy seems pretty typical of the right-wing?

If you EVER call anyone out on their lack of patriotism again, I'll hound you into the next life!

You really are one truly delusional ass. Hey, Bill Ayers blows up buildings...that's what he does, and what he advocates. He's close to all your Obama twats in power now who are hell-bent to fuck up the country for generations. I didn't create that Obama/Ayers situation, so why not just go slither off to wherever little pathetic pointy-fingered rat-fucks like you & Kwiikfucko go hide in between your self-rightous and laughable postings.

Well, just as long as you're not all bitter about it...

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

PIRATENEWS

Friday, April 17, 2009 1:03 AM

Homosexual CNN CIA agent Anderson Cooper Vanderbilt was joking with Bohemian Grove nudist David Gergen last night, that families at the Tea Parties were "teabagging". That's a homosexual term for dangling your dangly bits in the mouth of a fag.

That's what the elite think of YOU.

Anderson "Cooper's" mommy is Gloria Vanderbilt. He's heir to at least $3-billion. Cooper is his cover name.

CNN, Fox, etc never mention what the real Tea protests are about, that the "Federal" Reserve Bank is private not govt and should be nationalized, and that the income tax was never ratified by the states and is unconstitutional.

Even the White House was shut down in a state of emergency by terrorist attack yesterday, after somebody threw a tea bag on the lawn.
www.infowars.com/white-house-locked-down-after-tea-bags-thrown/

Note that the real Tea Party of the Revolutionary War didn't just throw tea, it threw opium in the sea. Opium was used by the British East India Company as a mind-control drug to enslave the colonies via addiction. All history books censor this fact, which is proven by the sign at the Tea Party Historuic Monument in boston. Today the British Empire increased heroin production in Afghanistan 10,000% thanks to the invasion by GW Bush, and robot suicide bombers by Barack Osama.

JONGSSTRAW

Friday, April 17, 2009 1:06 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Jongsstraw, I'm truly honored that you place me in the same category as Kwicko, altho I think you're mistaken: He's smarter than me and waaaaay smarter than you. Only you're too stupid to realize it!

BTW- it doesn't matter if you hide behind Ayers. If I were to say that I hope the right wing gun-nuts go off and obliterate all Republican Congressmen, pretty much the same stuff. Trying to wash your hand like Pontius Pilate doesn't make you look any better, it just makes you look like a weasel.

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

Well I already knew you were a hopeless dumbass, but your high praise of the demented and permanently Bush-scarred victim Kwiklip is truly a new low for even you. All that wise-ass can post is other people's words edited with his own. That's real intelligent for sure. I see how you could be impressed with that elementary school type of prank.

KWICKO

Friday, April 17, 2009 1:06 AM

Quote:

Jongsstraw, I'm truly honored that you place me in the same category as Kwicko, altho I think you're mistaken: He's smarter than me and waaaaay smarter than you. Only you're too stupid to realize it!

Objection! I'm not smarter than you, young lady; I'm just more of a natural-born smart-ass. It can't be helped.

And I dearly love to twist the tails of the righties and watch them sputter and flail in anger and frustration.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

KWICKO

Friday, April 17, 2009 1:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:
Homosexual CNN CIA agent Anderson Cooper Vanderbilt was joking with Bohemian Grove nudist David Gergen last night, that families at the Tea Parties were "teabagging". That's a homosexual term for dangling your dangly bits in the mouth of a fag.

Anderson "Cooper's" mommy is Gloria Vanderbilt. He's heir to at least $3-billion.

That's what the elite think of YOU.

CNN, Fox, etc never mention what the real Tea protests are about, that the "Federal" Reserve Bank is private not govt and should be nationalized, and that the income tax was never ratified by the states and is unconstitutional.

Even the White House was shut down in a state of emergency by terrorist attack yesterday, after somebody threw a tea bag on the lawn.
www.infowars.com/white-house-locked-down-after-tea-bags-thrown/

PN, you seem WAY too into the whole gay-sex thing to be a straight man. Do you and WhoZit have a secret thing going?

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

KWICKO

Friday, April 17, 2009 1:17 AM

Quote:
I see how you could be impressed with that elementary school type of prank.

Sorry, Jongsy - I was trying to dumb it down so you could follow along. I know your lips get tired when you try to read too much...

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

JONGSSTRAW

Friday, April 17, 2009 1:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
I see how you could be impressed with that elementary school type of prank.

Sorry, Jongsy - I was trying to dumb it down so you could follow along. I know your lips get tired when you try to read too much...

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

I expect no less coming from a worm like you. People who think and boast that they're smarter than others are all fucking delusional. And your previous post clearly indicts you as nothing but a troll clown.

KWICKO

Friday, April 17, 2009 1:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
I see how you could be impressed with that elementary school type of prank.

Sorry, Jongsy - I was trying to dumb it down so you could follow along. I know your lips get tired when you try to read too much...

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

I expect no less coming from a worm like you. People who think and boast that they're smarter than others are all fucking delusional. And your previous post clearly indicts you as nothing but a troll clown.

So when you posted this,

Quote:

Well I already knew you were a hopeless dumbass, but your high praise of the demented and permanently Bush-scarred victim Kwiklip is truly a new low for even you. All that wise-ass can post is other people's words edited with his own. That's real intelligent for sure. I see how you could be impressed with that elementary school type of prank.

trying to show us all how smart you are (smarter than Signy and I, at least), you were REALLY just trying to show us how fucking delusional you are?

Keep digging, son! That hole isn't going to get deeper all by itself!

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

WULFENSTAR

Friday, April 17, 2009 2:42 AM

I appreciate the compliment Sig. Seriously.

AURAPTOR

Friday, April 17, 2009 10:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

The Left has consistently shown nothing but vitriolic hatred for anyone opposed to their views,

*Chuckle*

Yea, the right's just been full of warm & fuzzies all this time. Very accepting group, them.

Thanks for the laugh, though.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

I missed the signs where anyone at the Tea Party's compared Obama to Satan, or dressed up and demonized anyone on the Left, as happened to Bush almost routinely at LEFT WING rallies.

AURAPTOR

Friday, April 17, 2009 10:53 AM

And for all the talk by the MSM that the tea parties were nothing more than propaganda organized by large corporations and folks with BIG, deep wallets, they expect folks to miss the irony of their bogus charges.

Yes, Fox News did COVER the story, as it was legit news. But for folks on the Left to complain that this wasn't a truly grass roots fueled event, is ridiculous.

This after 8 yrs of dissent of the most vulgar, course and even violent sort that we've seen since the late 60's. This from the folks who organize " protest " marches which are nothing more than cleverly disguised rallies for and put on by the Socialist Party and financed in large part by BILLIONAIRE George Soros.

Hypocrisy, they name is the Left Wing!

KWICKO

Friday, April 17, 2009 11:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
And for all the talk by the MSM that the tea parties were nothing more than propaganda organized by large corporations and folks with BIG, deep wallets, they expect folks to miss the irony of their bogus charges.

Yes, Fox News did COVER the story, as it was legit news. But for folks on the Left to complain that this wasn't a truly grass roots fueled event, is ridiculous.

This after 8 yrs of dissent of the most vulgar, course and even violent sort that we've seen since the late 60's. This from the folks who organize " protest " marches which are nothing more than cleverly disguised rallies for and put on by the Socialist Party and financed in large part by BILLIONAIRE George Soros.

Hypocrisy, they name is the Left Wing!

The stories I'm hearing are that Fox didn't just "cover" the tea parties, but rather that Fox was the de-facto SPONSOR of them, and their "coverage" started weeks in advance - in fact, was essentially PROMOTION of them, not "coverage" of them.

There are allegations that Fox News on-air personalities were doing recorded messages, that Fox was sending out mass e-mails, in short that Fox News was the corporation organizing and paying for the tea parties.

So for you to claim that they are anything LESS than propaganda organized by large corporations and folks with BIG, deep wallets might turn out to be TRULY ironic.

So all of this may be nothing more "grassroots" than a cleverly disguised rally for, put on by, and financed in large part by BILLIONAIRE Rupert Murdoch.

I'm still looking into this as time permits, but here's a couple quick links to some disturbing details:

http://mediamatters.org/items/200904080025

Note Glenn Beck's "FNC Tax Day Tea Party" tagline. Do news channels normally try to put their name on the stories they "cover"? I don't recall Katie Couric touting the "CBS Virginia Tech Shooting". It seems to me that Fox is trying to brand the parties as their own. Question is, did they climb on board AFTER the parties were organized, or did FNC actually cook up the whole idea? And it's a question YOU should want the answers to as much as me, 'Rap. If you think the Lefties are being duped and used as shills for corporations, shouldn't you decry being used in the same manner?

http://politics.theatlantic.com/2009/04/more_tea_party_symbiotics_fox_
news.php

Stay tuned,

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

SERGEANTX

Friday, April 17, 2009 11:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
And for all the talk by the MSM that the tea parties were nothing more than propaganda organized by large corporations and folks with BIG, deep wallets, they expect folks to miss the irony of their bogus charges.

Sadly, there more truth in this than I'd like to admit. While the tea parties started out as a grassroots movement, mostly by Ron Paul supporters and small government advocates, they WERE co-opted by mainstream Republican cheerleaders. That's particularly frustrating because, while we need all the help we can get, these are the very same bastards who were snickering at Ron Paul in the primary debates when he was warning us about the economy. The very same Bush bootlickers mocking us because we dared to point out the emperor's new GWOT wore no clothes.

So, to see them jumping on the bandwagon at this point (ie. too late) is not only annoying, it's also a bit suspicious. Glenn Beck basically called Ron Paul a terrorist during the primary campaign. The folks at Fox took every opportunity to mock us and promote their corporate approved candidates instead. But now as they sense the political winds changing, we see a convenient change of heart.

I'm not sure we need those kinds of allies. All I see them doing is shitting on the legitimacy of the genuine libertarian movement. I almost wonder if that isn't their real goal.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

RIPWASH

Friday, April 17, 2009 12:53 PM

I'm not sure what to make of this other than that I heard these tea parties were initiated by a couple of stay-at-home moms who were getting sick and tired of everything and, yes, probably talk radio and Fox picked up on it first for some reason (could be because it was NEWS? Hmmmmmm.... ).

What I do know, from listening to Beck and Hannity for a while now, is that they did support Bush in many areas, but one of the areas they did not support him on was his spending. Many times they blasted him on spending and on the subject of immigration. So to say they were bootlickers is a bit of an uninformed statement. I'll also mention that Hannity may have covered the Atlanta Tea Party on his FOX show, but he also promoted it on his radio show which is on an ABC-owned station out of NYC. Same thing goes for Beck, I think.

I've seen clips of newscasts saying these parties were anti-Obama, anti-government, anti-taxes. But I watched Glenn Beck's program broadcast from the Alamo that day. He said, flat out, it wasn't about party, it was about freedom. He said "Democrats SUCK" which got cheers, "but no more so than Republicans SUCK" which got even more cheers. AND he asked questions I didn't hear from any other reporter that I'd seen clips of (I did see something on CNN.com about this, however). The most important of which was, "Why now? Why didn't people react like this 4 or 6 years ago when Bush was in office?" The answer was simple. People got complacent, as Americans have a tendency to get. Yes, there was some acceptance, but then it got worse and worse and, unfortunately for Obama, the stimulous package and continued bailouts were the last straw.

That was MY take on it. My opinion alone.

But it's also my opinion that if some rich person DID finance this, it's really no different than George Soros giving millions upon millions of dollars to organizations like Moveon.org or ACORN. Same exact thing and one side should not blast the other (pointing out BOTH sides here, folks) for using the same tactics.

Zoe: "Get it running again."
Mal: "Yeah"
Zoe: "So not running now"
Mal: "Not so much"
- Out of Gas

SERGEANTX

Friday, April 17, 2009 1:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RIPWash:
But it's also my opinion that if some rich person DID finance this, it's really no different than George Soros giving millions upon millions of dollars to organizations like Moveon.org or ACORN. Same exact thing and one side should not blast the other (pointing out BOTH sides here, folks) for using the same tactics.

How about blasting both sides for duplicity? Ours is a history of being suckers for one "side" or the other. Fact is, they're they same side and they're playing us.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

RUE

Friday, April 17, 2009 1:04 PM

dbl

RUE

Friday, April 17, 2009 1:17 PM

Quote:
Fact is, they're they same side and they're playing us.

And Americans are so easy to play its scary. They think they're being anti-government? Talking about freedom? All they're doing is dancing to someone else's tune.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

SERGEANTX

Friday, April 17, 2009 1:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
And Americans are so easy to play its scary. They think they're being anti-government? Talking about freedom? All they're doing is dancing to someone else's tune.

The really frustrating thing is that seems a ubiquitous fact of politics. The rank and file of pretty much every "movement" consists of flag-waving morons. So it invariably reduces to an ugly game of demagoguery with unscrupulous "leaders" manipulating their respective mobs. I don't know how we get around that.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

Friday, April 17, 2009 1:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
you don't even recognize that your own logic is being reflected back at you

Um, nah. No. Sorry but I'll choose not to nod to Kwickos powerful intellect. What I see are are two enablers leaning on each other for support. There are others here doing it too. If Mr. isall proffered this opinion I'd consider it, but from you rue, sorry no.

AURAPTOR

Friday, April 17, 2009 1:30 PM

you're hearing shit from a Left wing site , made by Hillary Clinton. Her husband tried to blame Rush Limbaugh for the O.K. city bombings.

You have no credibility.

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

Friday, April 17, 2009 1:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Not that I disagree with your point, but I felt it worth noting that you felt fit to chastise Kwiko and not Jong for literally the same words...

Read further down then. Jong calls me naive and I respond.

KWICKO

Friday, April 17, 2009 2:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
you don't even recognize that your own logic is being reflected back at you
Um, nah. No. Sorry but I'll choose not to nod to Kwickos powerful intellect. What I see are are two enablers leaning on each other for support. There are others here doing it too. If Mr. isall proffered this opinion I'd consider it, but from you rue, sorry no.

That's a bit damning then, isn't it? You're freely admitting that you'll give differing levels of credence to the exact same information depending on whom in comes from. That's fine, just as long as you don't ever try to portray yourself as fair, balanced, or unbiased. Clearly you ARE biased.

That's not a condemnation or a criticism; it's a mere observation. We ALL tend to be biased. If we're honest, we can see and admit these biases, and then we can try to find a way to work around them.

What drives me nuts is people - AuRaptor is a shining example - who are completely and utterly blinded by their biases, so much so that they can't even admit that they HAVE such a bent.

Here he is telling me that the tea parties were completely grass-roots, unlike all those Soros-backed protests the left attends. I pointed out that this MAY NOT be so. I didn't claim that it clearly isn't so, or can't be true. I didn't call him a liar, a fuck-nuts, an idiot, a dumbass, a prick, or any of the things he routinely calls me. All I did was point out that there is SOME evidence that this is far from a simple grass-roots movement, and may in fact be strongly backed by Fox News. That's fine and good, Fox can do that - but don't try to tell me that their "coverage" of it is purely from a "news" standpoint. That's just ludicrous.

And rather than take that information and look into it himself, 'Rap decided to simply say, "You listened to Hillary. You have no credibility."

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

SIGNYM

Friday, April 17, 2009 2:32 PM

Well, rappy listens to limbaugh, so HE has no credibility.

Right, rappy?

Same logic.

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

Friday, April 17, 2009 3:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
That's a bit damning then, isn't it? You're freely admitting that you'll give differing levels of credence to the exact same information depending on whom in comes from.

You're quite the debater K. I'll hand you that. A great skill for all debaters to hone is to re-direct the debate into a direction they can control. And that is what you've done here, changed the focus to imply that if person A said a thing I'd disagree but if person B (Whom I like presumably) says the same thing...well I'd agree by george!

Nope. Allow me to drag the point back into focus. I believe Rue to be a biased person. I always have. Certainly Rap is as well. Sometimes Rap espouses retroic that fits into my world view of economic liberty. Sometimes Rue will profer statements that fit my world view of personal liberty. I see their divergent paths as 2 parts of a greater whole.

You I see as older and wiser, but in no way less able to cut through the retroic yourself. Because Rue is so much like yourself you two lean back to back like Gump & Bubba in war. I've watched Rap and Wulf do the same thing.

To finish on the primary point I'll offer this: I seek wisdom from the wise. There are about 3 posters on fff that help me grow. Chris, for all his strangeness at times, has become one of those 3 over the years. Rue on the other hand is a person I've meet many times before. The heart is in the correct place to do good without the wisdom to consider all consequences. Just as Wulf's focused willpower is in the right place to take action without the wisdom to consider those consequences.

RUE

Friday, April 17, 2009 3:19 PM

"To finish on the primary point ..."

I can't imagine what your post has to do with the topic. Speaking of redirecting ...

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

WASHNWEAR

Friday, April 17, 2009 5:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

I think all that is very noble. I also think it's very naive.

And your point is not lost on me. Yes it can be percieved as naive. True. But I will say this..the same could have been said to the patriots of the 1770's prior to the war. At that time a growing minority were disgruntled, fighting as they did against the Stamp Act of 1765, the Townshend acts of 1767, the Tea Act of 1773, or the Intolerable acts of 1774. To resist the supreme power of the combined might of the British Empire by a meer few was indeed regarded as naive (or more often foolish). But when the frustration grew...and grew....and grew...what was once naive became menacing.

One reason I love Firefly so much are the ideals of the Independents. They bled and died for planetary sovergnity. Who can protect us from Scavengers, or harsh conditions? From Slavers or Reavers? The Alliance? NO! We must stand on our own legs! We have the right to self govern. That fiction created by Joss Whedon resonates as loudly in my ears as the truth of the American Revolution. Those were the people who proclaimed 'Give Me Liberty or Death', and meant it.

I saw a lot of things at yesterday's tea party. There were even some scant counter-protestors. But their efforts were such a waste, they had no message. And then I saw the grand absurdity of a downtown panhandler gravitate towards the mass of humanity thinking this was like a Colts game or something where he could fleece beer/drug money. What he encountered was a mass of people who had heard speeches on the subject of self-suffenciecy and when he started begging I thought the people were going to tar him.

Well, sure - 'cause if you can't tar the ones who'd really benefit from it, tar the vagrant panhandlers. Everybody knows they're nothing more than failed politicians, anyway.

I reckon that's why Jesus said that thing about the poor always being with us - he knew that we would need surrogates for those times when tarring those who actually wanted tarring would prove impractical and/or inadvisable.

I certainly hope he got what was coming to him...or to somebody, at any rate...

ETA: Which reminds me - if the detainee abuse outcry becomes too unmanageable, maybe we can round up some vagrants and charge them with torture and war crimes. And then tar them.

And this is why I usually limit myself to nonsequiturs and one-liners...by the time I care enough to try and post a serious post, I'm about as coherent as a ferret on meth...

W W R D ?
What would Rorschach do?

AURAPTOR

Friday, April 17, 2009 5:12 PM

Limbaugh is accurate 99% of the time. Everyone should listen.

He's more credible than most of the msm.

CITIZEN

Friday, April 17, 2009 5:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Limbaugh is accurate 99% of the time. Everyone should listen.

He's more credible than most of the msm.

you forgot the in prefix.

SIGNYM

Friday, April 17, 2009 5:27 PM

Quote:
Limbaugh is accurate 99% of the time. Everyone should listen.

Hmmm... Limbaugh is 99% credible. And why should I believe this??? Because a Limbaugh supporter told me so???

This is the same circular logic as: The bible is the word of god. How do I know? Because it tells me so!

I was hoping that you would agree to a less belief-driven test of credibility... such as the ability to explain ALL of the facts (not just a select few) and the ability to predict the future. Alas, I see that you're as religious about Limbaugh as some are about the bible.

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

FREMDFIRMA

Friday, April 17, 2009 6:38 PM

Quote:
But now as they sense the political winds changing, we see a convenient change of heart.

That always happens, you can always pick out the damn collaborators so easily cause when the wind changes, they're the ones making plaintive, pathetic, overblown shows of loyalty to the new regime, which of course they "always really supported" while dropping any evidence to the contrary down the memory hole and playing to the all too short memories of the masses.

This ain't so much certain republicans, as it is the mainstream media right now because they DID collaborate, they WERE complicit, and all this massive sucking up is in desperate efforts to not only try to keep them relevant, which is a failure from the start since due to them acting as a fucking propaganda machine for the GOP over the course of the last six years, most folks with half a clue went to other sources for their news and this is putting a hard financial pinch on them, and soon enough they'll not only scream and whine for a bailout, but then take the money and funnel it into restrictive measures intended to strangle the internet cause we can't have the people ACTUALLY knowing what's going on, oh no...

See, the assholes in power been doing this shit all along, it's due to the free and open nature of the internet and the free exchange of information (good, bad, ugly and requiring critical thought to determine value from chaff) that these days we CATCH them at it, more and more often, and despite what many folks think of "loons" like Alex Jones, Jeff Rense, John Lee, and so many other obviously-cracked folks, they do dig out shitloads of information which otherwise no one would bother, and often enough someone more reputable and credible will take the ball and run with it.

Considering what HAPPENS to whistleblowers these days, despite all but illusory supposed legal protections, they've really only got one way to spill the dirt in this era also, and who do you think they spill it to ?
Often enough buried in their own spin, prejudices and misperceptions.

But so long as the internet exists, the facts are out there, and even if it WERE strangled, there's FIDONET and Samzidat, cause it's just too late for these alphabet goons to cut off the flow when most of their upper management is still stuck in a 1950s mindset regarding the matter.

Quote:
I'm not sure we need those kinds of allies. All I see them doing is shitting on the legitimacy of the genuine libertarian movement. I almost wonder if that isn't their real goal.

You can thank Bob Barr for that, since by lack of opposition and complete shunning of anyone not rabidly conservative, him and his cronies, initially given the position despite a majority of the party being against it, have turned the "libertarian" party into GOP-Lite complete with every goddamn flaw those Federalist-Neo-Fascist pricks ever had, and not a single one of the advantages like heavy old money backing and corporate support, that they'd need to make that lameass idea even work.

And of course, as this progressed most of the real libertarian types jumped ship and even more moderate conservatives like Will Grigg took a beating because they got hammered by three sides with the "libertarians" siding with the very radical right assholes they were trying to distance themselves from.

NO ONE has forgotten this, and these kind of grudges tend to last a damn long time in politics.
By installing and supporting Barr, and failing to dump him even as he destroyed their party's viability, the "libertarian" party has in essence, self-destructed, and the fact that he is STILL THERE despite this means that any chance of redeeming it is utterly hopeless.
What's next, hiring that psycho Bolton as their press agent ?

Believe me, I am not above using treacherous quisling cowards like these as cannon fodder, or even as catspaws to eliminate each OTHER, which they'll do gleefully to prove thier loyalty to "the cause" and bury their own native cowardice by mowing someone else down for it - this being a time honored and dam

STORYMARK

Friday, April 17, 2009 6:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Limbaugh is accurate 99% of the time. Everyone should listen.

He's more credible than most of the msm.

BWAAAAHHAAAAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAA!

Thanks, that was a good one.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

FREMDFIRMA

Friday, April 17, 2009 7:48 PM

Heh heh heh.

May Day approaches.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chummy_Fleming

"... I am going to be expelled because I am an anarchist. I am in the company of Tolstoy, Spencer and the most advanced thinkers of the world. Workers will never get their rights while they look to Parliament. A general strike would be more effective than all the Parliaments in the world. I have got a fine stick and I am going to use It. Expel me if you like. I am an anarchist. We have been hanged in Chicago, electrocuted in New York, guillotined in Paris and strangled in Italy, and I will go with my comrades. I am opposed to your Government and to your authority. Down with them. Do your worst. Long live Anarchy".

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

RUE

Friday, April 17, 2009 11:54 PM

"the stimulous package and continued bailouts were the last straw"

I thought the bailouts were a bad idea. As I've said several times already, the government could have gotten a lot more bang for the buck if it had simply renegotiated the problematic mortgages. All those over-leveraged multiple layers of investment 'instruments' BASED ON MORTGAGES would have been stabilized, as would have the banks. AND people could have legitimately stayed in their homes, and the real estate market would not have crashed so badly.

An opinion I read a while back - more stimulus, less bailout. I couldn't agree more. The economy is running on 'bubbles' (there is a book called 'The Bubble Economy'). And bubbles are simply people pushing an elevator up because it's going up (for now). The country needs INVESTMENT in order to MANUFACTURE. That's what the stimulus is supposed to do. I have no problem with that.

While I can see people getting irked at signing those tax checks to the US Treasury - and hence to Geithner and hence to the fat cats - it seems silly to be protesting a TAX CUT. What do you want the government to do in response - take the money back ??? I mean, really - how idiotic is that ?

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

AURAPTOR

Saturday, April 18, 2009 12:06 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Limbaugh is accurate 99% of the time. Everyone should listen.

He's more credible than most of the msm.

you forgot the in.

Oh, you mean 'Everyone should listen IN ' ???

Prefix isn't what you meant, I'm sure.

RUE

Saturday, April 18, 2009 12:46 AM

"And whoever drafted that DHS document referencing emerging 'right-wing extremism' should be among the first in line , right after their 'superiors'..."

Starting with BUSH, perhaps ?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20090416/pl_politico/21300

Earlier vet. report drew no fire

While the American Legion and conservative commentators have pounced on a recent Department of Homeland Security report on right-wing extremism, calling it politically motivated and slanderous toward veterans, a 2008 FBI report with similar findings generated little controversy or coverage.

The 2008 report, produced while President Bush was in office and titled “White Supremacist Recruitment of Military Personnel Since 9/11,” found that although veterans don’t make up a large percentage of “white supremacist extremists,” they have taken on leadership roles in the movement.

The DHS report circulating this week dedicated just one section to “disgruntled military veterans,” where it referenced the 2008 report.

Earlier Wednesday, Rehnbein’s colleague John Sommer and Fox News host Greta Van Sustren were raking the report over the coals.

“It's slanderous. It's insane. It's insulting,” Van Sustren said. “It's all those things.” (Unless Bush does it. In which case - it's A-OK ! )

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

RUE

Saturday, April 18, 2009 12:56 AM

"Tea Party protesters are civil, bathed and decent."

Except when they are not:

"when he started begging I thought the people were going to tar him"

Not exactly an advertisement for the civility and decency of the tea-baggers.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

WULFENSTAR

Saturday, April 18, 2009 1:21 AM

Except Rue, it is.

Had I been at these Tea Parties...lol. I would have rushed the White House.

But I had to work, unfortunatly. And, yes, I chose to gather another paycheck instead of charging. Take of that what you will.

As far as I could see, and keep in mind I was 2 blocks from the White House...they WERE civil.

RUE

Saturday, April 18, 2009 1:23 AM

Not according to a poster who was at a tea party.

"And then I saw the grand absurdity of a downtown panhandler gravitate towards the mass of humanity thinking this was like a Colts game or something where he could fleece beer/drug money. What he encountered was a mass of people who had heard speeches on the subject of self-suffenciecy and when he started begging I thought the people were going to tar him."

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

AURAPTOR

Saturday, April 18, 2009 1:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"Tea Party protesters are civil, bathed and decent."

Except when they are not:

"when he started begging I thought the people were going to tar him"

Not exactly an advertisement for the civility and decency of the tea-baggers.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

WTF are you even talking about ? Because you made up a uncredited quote, and then underlined it, that dismisses the entire movement? Dude, put down the crack pipe when you post.

RUE

Saturday, April 18, 2009 1:48 AM

"WTF are you even talking about ? Because you made up a uncredited quote, and then underlined it, that dismisses the entire movement? Dude, put down the crack pipe when you post."

Uncredited ?

Now I KNOW you don't read posts -

Here's the credit:

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=37817&m=695289#695289

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

RUE

Saturday, April 18, 2009 1:51 AM

Made up ? And here's the quote:

Quote:
Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:

And your point is not lost on me. Yes it can be percieved as naive. True. But I will say this..the same could have been said to the patriots of the 1770's prior to the war. At that time a growing minority were disgruntled, fighting as they did against the Stamp Act of 1765, the Townshend acts of 1767, the Tea Act of 1773, or the Intolerable acts of 1774. To resist the supreme power of the combined might of the British Empire by a meer few was indeed regarded as naive (or more often foolish). But when the frustration grew...and grew....and grew...what was once naive became menacing.

One reason I love Firefly so much are the ideals of the Independents. They bled and died for planetary sovergnity. Who can protect us from Scavengers, or harsh conditions? From Slavers or Reavers? The Alliance? NO! We must stand on our own legs! We have the right to self govern. That fiction created by Joss Whedon resonates as loudly in my ears as the truth of the American Revolution. Those were the people who proclaimed 'Give Me Liberty or Death', and meant it.

I saw a lot of things at yesterday's tea party. There were even some scant counter-protestors. But their efforts were such a waste, they had no message. And then I saw the grand absurdity of a downtown panhandler gravitate towards the mass of humanity thinking this was like a Colts game or something where he could fleece beer/drug money. What he encountered was a mass of people who had heard speeches on the subject of self-suffenciecy and when he started begging I thought the people were going to tar him.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

RUE

Saturday, April 18, 2009 1:54 AM

Got any more silly posts, Rap ?

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

WULFENSTAR

Saturday, April 18, 2009 2:03 AM

....and you have a problem with a beggar being tarred and feathered?

RUE

Saturday, April 18, 2009 2:06 AM

I'm just going to preserve this one.

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
....and you have a problem with a beggar being tarred and feathered?

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

SERGEANTX

Saturday, April 18, 2009 2:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
....and you have a problem with a beggar being tarred and feathered?

I certainly do. I thought bluesun's comment was ugly, and frankly it's the kinda stuff I hear from Republicans that makes me want to steer clear. Keep in mind wulf, beggars ask for your money. If the do it politely, and I've got it to spare, I'll help out.

Of course if they wanna play the subtle intimidation game it's another matter. But I'd rather have them asking for money than voting to take it by force.

EDIT: I should add I also hear that attitude often enough from Democrats - their rationalization being that we have government programs to take care of them and they have no business 'freelancing'.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

AURAPTOR

Saturday, April 18, 2009 3:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"WTF are you even talking about ? Because you made up a uncredited quote, and then underlined it, that dismisses the entire movement? Dude, put down the crack pipe when you post."

Uncredited ?

Now I KNOW you don't read posts -

Here's the credit:

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=37817&m=695289#695289

Silence is consent.

I read YOUR post, and it was completely void of any citation of said quote. Don't blame others for your lack of due diligence. I never claimed I read EVERY SINGLE POST. I have too much of a life to devote that much time on this board.

FREMDFIRMA

Saturday, April 18, 2009 9:51 AM

Quote:
I certainly do. I thought bluesun's comment was ugly, and frankly it's the kinda stuff I hear from Republicans that makes me want to steer clear. Keep in mind wulf, beggars ask for your money. If the do it politely, and I've got it to spare, I'll help out.

Of course if they wanna play the subtle intimidation game it's another matter. But I'd rather have them asking for money than voting to take it by force.

Or worse, resorting to violence and crime to obtain it.

Considering what it does to one's sense of self and self-respect, most of them folk with a tin cup and a sign really DO need the help, and if their life is so fucked up already that the idea of "scamming" three bucks outta me is gonna make their day - it's a good deed nonetheless cause you've given them SOMETHING other than misery and shame to carry with them for a while.

I don't really have the words for it, but even when I was sleepin on a park bench I had to fight over to have in early winter, I still couldn't find it in me to beg due to a combination of lack of faith in humanity and personal pride, and thus turned to crime and violence.

I'm sure that those on the receiving end would have preferred it didn't happen that way, so consider well if you'd rather them holding a tin cup out to you, or a weapon out AT you...

Cause if one doesn't work, it will drive them to the other, never you doubt it.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

CUDA77

Saturday, April 18, 2009 11:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:

Had I been at these Tea Parties...lol. I would have rushed the White House.

But I had to work, unfortunatly. And, yes, I chose to gather another paycheck instead of charging. Take of that what you will.

Well tell you what, when your little one man revolution is able to fit itself into your busy schedule and you decide to take back the White House guns a-blazing, be sure to let us know so I know when to tune into the news to hear about the psychopath wearing a Guy Fawkes mask gunned down on the White House lawn and can laugh at your silly ass with the rest of the country.

CITIZEN

Saturday, April 18, 2009 11:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Limbaugh is accurate 99% of the time. Everyone should listen.

He's more credible than most of the msm.

you forgot the in.

Oh, you mean 'Everyone should listen IN ' ???

Prefix isn't what you meant, I'm sure.

Prefix dear, as in coming before a word, not postfix. As in "inaccurate"

Rather a fail there I'm afraid.

OUT2THEBLACK

Saturday, April 18, 2009 7:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"And whoever drafted that DHS document referencing emerging 'right-wing extremism' should be among the first in line , right after their 'superiors'..."

Starting with BUSH, perhaps ?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20090416/pl_politico/21300

Earlier vet. report drew no fire

While the American Legion and conservative commentators have pounced on a recent Department of Homeland Security report on right-wing extremism, calling it politically motivated and slanderous toward veterans, a 2008 FBI report with similar findings generated little controversy or coverage.

The 2008 report, produced while President Bush was in office and titled “White Supremacist Recruitment of Military Personnel Since 9/11,” found that although veterans don’t make up a large percentage of “white supremacist extremists,” they have taken on leadership roles in the movement.

The DHS report circulating this week dedicated just one section to “disgruntled military veterans,” where it referenced the 2008 report.

Sure , let him go first...First in crime , first in line...

The white supremacist thing rather limited the scope of the FBI's report , so it drew little attention by comparison to the new Dept. of Hokey Security dragnet , into which about 75% of the populace would fit , by their broad and (over)reaching definitions...

It's 'political profiling' , plain and simple...

The difference between this current alert and the FBI's prior report is apples vs. fish -- Not much alike , when seriously considered...

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

Monday, April 20, 2009 5:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Not according to a poster who was at a tea party: "And then I saw the grand absurdity of a downtown panhandler gravitate towards the mass of humanity thinking this was like a Colts game or something where he could fleece beer/drug money. What he encountered was a mass of people who had heard speeches on the subject of self-suffenciecy and when he started begging I thought the people were going to tar him."

Those were my words. I stand by them Rue. As a person who did not attend a party you cannot understand the spirit of self-suffency present. Speech after speech focused on 2 topics:
1. Our government's newly bloated growth and the certain doom of unsustainable debt.
2. A focus for each person on doing their part to "do for themselves" and to lessen as much as possible their dependence upon government.

The guy who was panhandling was looking for drug money. Period. 3 blocks east and 1 block north of our location is a mission that feeds and shelters homeless. I did not mention in the post eariler that while we tea-partiers were sharing our mutual belief not to grow government, we were also asked by at least one speaker to give "time talent and treasure" as we can, and the nearby mission was actually mentioned as an example of things people could do. But should we give this guy money for drugs or booze? Everyone there knew exactly what he was doing. Saying that we'd "tar" him was of course going too far. Certainly a poor choice of words on my part and they play right into the hands of those trying to cast doubt on the intentions of the gatherings...such as you.

But you know Rue, I'll make it personal for you with a question, and I'd like you to answer honestly as the kind spirit you are. You are on the street. A panhandler approaches you 2 blocks from a homeless shelter and asks for money. He smells of booze. Do you give it to him? Answer me truthfully and then maybe I'll tell you a true story of what happened to my wife when she did just that 3 years ago.

FREMDFIRMA

Monday, April 20, 2009 10:32 PM

Even the damn Conservatives admit nefarious and duplicitous motives behind their support of said protests, you know.

The Tea Parties: We’ve Seen It All Before
http://www.lewrockwell.com/mcmaken/mcmaken129.html

EXCERPT
"Conservatives have been doing this since the fifties. In order to enhance the popularity of their cause, they pretend to be the ideology of low-taxes and decreased spending, espousing the many benefits of austere government.

Then, as soon as they are in power, they quickly forget all about the ideals of small government and focus on what really matters to them: nationalism, war, and doling out the spoils of political victory to their friends.

So yes, the Tea Party protestors are right that Obama is spending recklessly, and they’re right that deficits are out of control, and they’re right that taxes are outrageously high.

But their inconsistency on these issues is embarrassingly obvious. And for those of us who can remember the last time the Conservatives pretended to oppose big government, we’ll just unhappily wait for the next time a Republican is in office and all the Conservatives suddenly realize that big government is fine as long as their guy is in charge."

They've played that card often enough that no one buys it no more, and the credibility of their movement and party is about what it deserves to be.

Mud.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, April 21, 2009 12:19 AM

Actually, the big gov't socialist plans to take your freedom and redistribute the wealth from the achievers to the low life slackers have been around for a while now.

Welcome to the comfort and enlightenment of true civilization.

Chicago-Tribune circa 1934

KWICKO

Tuesday, April 21, 2009 12:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Chicago-Tribune circa 1934

Just think - within a mere ten years of that "recklessness", America was the richest, most powerful nation on Earth - and remained so until at least 2001.

Seems like we could use some of that kind of reckless socialism right about now!

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

WULFENSTAR

Tuesday, April 21, 2009 1:09 AM

Err. you tards do know that the Tea Parties were started by Ron Paul supporters.

The Repubs just jumped on the bandwagon.

FREMDFIRMA

Tuesday, April 21, 2009 1:45 AM

*bonks Wulfie on the head for using an unnecessary slur*

I am very well aware of that, and in all honesty if they REALLY want to fix the problems, some of them damn fools are even welcome...

But it's not like we don't also see the very transparent attempt at transforming a very real reform movement into yet another GOP power grab, just look at the mess Bob Barr and company made of the Libertarian party cause folks were neither cynical nor skeptical enough and trusted them.

Better that we don't let that happen here, right ?

If they're really up for reform, by all means welcome to the party, but if you wanna do to us what they did to the LP ?

Oh hell no - and as such, they're gonna have to prove themselves, and so far they ain't done that, if anything, they've just cast themselves further into suspicion in light of all but ADMITTING that very intent.

Trusting them right now to instigate reform against the current administration is as foolish as trusting the Clinton Globalistas to reform the former administration, something which I most pointedly did not do, as you well recall.

Don't mistake those who wanna tighten up the leash, for those that simply desire to hold it - haven't we made that mistake enough already ?

While I am indeed bitterly skeptical, I did see a rather heartwarming moment in all of that, really how often do you get to see a Nader Green and a Bush Conservative stop snarling at each other long enough to spit curses at someone else ?

Just wait till you see what we got in store for May Day, my friend.

-Frem

PS. I don't do political correctness, but using the word retard or abbreviates for some folk is actually insulting to mentally retarded folk, since they in fact don't know any better - and the folk you're meaning to insult DO.

"dumbfucks" would have been somewhat more accurate there, guy.

KWICKO

Tuesday, April 21, 2009 2:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Err. you tards do know that the Tea Parties were started by Ron Paul supporters.

The Repubs just jumped on the bandwagon.

And you let them take over, and were only too happy to turn the controls over to them, after the way they treated Dr. Paul.

And then YOU, Wulfie, you didn't even go out and support them.

I guess we can see where your honor and principles really lie, eh?

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, April 21, 2009 2:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

Just think - within a mere ten years of that "recklessness", America was the richest, most powerful nation on Earth - and remained so until at least 2001.

Seems like we could use some of that kind of reckless socialism right about now!

Mike

By 1944, much of the major powers of the world had been bombed out, or had a major military campaigns ravage large parts of their land. The U.S. was the only major power that hadn't had any battles fought on its home ( mainland ) soil.

I guess you're in favor of breaking out a world war, and really hyping up the military industrial complex, to get us out of this fix, huh?

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