How to Write a Conspiracy Theory

POSTED BY: AnthonyT
UPDATED: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 20:10
VIEWED: 9429
PAGE 1 of 1

ANTHONYT

Friday, January 19, 2007 2:17 AM

How to Write A Conspiracy Theory

Hello,

Having recently perused some wild and wacky conspiracy theories about 9/11 on this board, I thought I'd give a lesson to conspiracy theorists about how to concoct future conspiracy theories. I believe the secret to a good conspiracy theory is that it be simple and believable. Now, conspiracy theories by nature require some level of complexity to make them appealing, but I think you'll see how this works without planting demolitions, launching missiles, remote-controlled jets, or making weird disembarkations of passengers.

*********

Premise 1: The new President and his staff want to secure popular support, and implement several surely unpopular policies to increase their power and the wealth of their allies.

Premise 2: There are organizations in foreign countries (Al Qaeda, etc.) who have gained power by backing an anti-US position. Like all persons of power, their main goal in life is to hold onto their power. So, they are occasionally forced to take strong anti-US actions in order to maintain power and respect within their organization. Unfortunately, they may lack the resources, training, and coordination to pull off any really profound bits of theatre.

Enter CIA: The President uses the CIA to secretly approach foreign organization (Al Qaeda) and offers their leader (Bin Laden) a way to permanently secure the respect of their organization, as well as acquire funding to promote their goals (and buy bling.) The CIA provides outlines of weaknesses, methods of entry, and recommendations for training in addition to funds. Bin Laden provides 'true believers' who will carry out these actions for allah. The CIA also promises Bin Laden advanced intel on US maneuvers so that he can stay one step ahead of capture. (He isn't a good enemy if he is caught quickly, plus they don't want him caught because he might squeal before he's able to be silenced.)

The Theatre: With the advice and funding of the CIA, the true believers are able to obtain basic flight training and gain access to airplanes, which they hijaack and fly into various notable buildings. In a lucky stroke, some of the buildings collapse in a dramatic fashion. News agencies need no bribes to play that scene for all it's worth.

The Prestige: Reeling from shock and consumed with rage, the American public gives the President and his cronies everything they wanted and more.

In my opinion, this is a much simpler and more believable conspiracy theory than most of the ones foisted upon us by conspiracy theorists.

Thank you for attending the show,

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

RUE

Friday, January 19, 2007 3:44 AM

I have an even simpler one.

Al Qaeda, for reasons inconsequential to this discussion, wishes to cause the US serious PR harm.

After dubya's installation, the neocons are meanwhile writing the US Patriot Act, dubya is trying to figure out how to get revenge for the attempted assassination of daddy dearest, president Cheney is trying to figure out how to make Iraq a paying concern, and the Saudis are trying to figure out how to remove Iraq from the competitive oil field (so to speak).

Osama bin Laden tells a relative 'don't be in the eastern US round about this time'.

The more amenable bin Ladens tell their business partners the Bushs, word gets out and all of the sudden it’s a cluster wet-dream. Government officials stop flying on planes, all warnings about bin Laden from the previous admin go unheeded, and everyone studiously makes an effort not to know. All anyone needs to do is wait for bin Laden to play his part.

And afterwards Saudis are spirited out of the US, Bush says he ‘knows’ it’s Osama and the shit just rolls downhill.

ANTHONYT

Friday, January 19, 2007 4:10 AM

Another good one! *Claps for Rue*

Simple, believable, to the point.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

MISSTRESSAHARA

Friday, January 19, 2007 6:42 AM

These are hilarious. Keep em coming boys.

If I'm a bitch, then life just got interesting

FLETCH2

Friday, January 19, 2007 8:27 AM

How about this one. Even easier.

Al Queda is a pseudo independent militant organization set up by Saudi Intelligence and funded in part initially by the US to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan. After that war is over and believing themselves invincible they start sniping at US interests, in part because of continued US support for Israel and in part because of fear of the US making progress in Mid east peace talks.

In 1999 they start into a plan involving the idea of using commercial jets as terror weapons. By 2001 word gets back to their Saudi Intelligence handlers that "something big" is brewing and that this will be in the form of an attack on America. This is passed to the US officials.

Various people in the new Whitehouse team have been drawing up legislation in the event of a terrorist attack. Such an attack happed in 1993, various attempts have been brewing since then and have been averted. Law of averages say that they have to get lucky sometime. In parallel to this effort plans are made to end the Saddam regime through direct military action. It is understood that justification for such a move would be difficult but it is hoped that either he will bring it on himself by successfully shooting down an alliance jet enforcing the no fly zone or that the "intel" provided by Iraqi defectors will spur the UN to act.

Word reaches Washington via the Saudi's that a Al Q attack on US soil is imminent. After the African embassy bombings and the USS Cole the government knows it will have no dificulty selling the threat of militant Islamist terrorism at home even if the AL Q group doesn't get a chance to fully play out it's plan. The government waits, neither helping or hindering the plans in progress.

When the 9/11 attacks happen the government is genuinely surprised. It was expecting a truck bomb or an attack on a school or shopping Mall (see what they told us to watch for just after 9/11.) When the buildings actually collapse they realise that this is more than they could have hoped for --- better as a justification than Pearl Harbor. In fact it is SO good that the Iraq contingency plan is dusted off and efforts made to link it to 9/11.

ARCLIGHT

Friday, January 19, 2007 12:59 PM

Cratering to the demands of environmentalist wackos and other elements of the lunatic fringe, the Bush administration attempting to combat the effects of Man-Made Global Warming unleashes a massive hard freeze in central kalifornia. Prices of Haliburton owned stocks in citrus producing companies skyrockets. Vice President Richard Cheney, in drunken celebratory glee mistakes a passing nun for a penguin and shoots her in the face with a shotgun.

…and the band played on.

HERO

Friday, January 19, 2007 3:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
In my opinion, this is a much simpler and more believable conspiracy theory than most of the ones foisted upon us by conspiracy theorists.

What about the conspiracy the cover up the truth about 9/11 (that it simply was an attack by Al Queda terrorists using hyjacked airplanes) by coming up with all these conspiracy theories?

You see all the great conspiracies were winding down, folk were losing interest. So all the conspiracy folk got together to invent a new conspiracy. Originally they intended to have the great "Orchestrated Fall of the Phoney Communism Causes Global Warming at BehestCaused by Corporate Air Conditioning Interests Controlled by Jews Fronting for the Knights Templar". But the 9/11 happened so they took up the "Bush behind 9/11" banner instead.

JFK, Elvis, Aliens, they are all old news, now they have a whole bunch of books, movies, and websites.

H

CAUSAL

Friday, January 19, 2007 4:01 PM

Personally, I blame the Bush administration.

Oh, wait; we're already doing that. Well, then, carry on.

________________________________________________________________________
Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets

I wish I had a magical wish-granting plank.

Vote Firefly! http://www.richlabonte.net/tvvote/index.html

ANTHONYT

Friday, January 19, 2007 4:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
In my opinion, this is a much simpler and more believable conspiracy theory than most of the ones foisted upon us by conspiracy theorists.

What about the conspiracy the cover up the truth about 9/11 (that it simply was an attack by Al Queda terrorists using hyjacked airplanes) by coming up with all these conspiracy theories?

You see all the great conspiracies were winding down, folk were losing interest. So all the conspiracy folk got together to invent a new conspiracy. Originally they intended to have the great "Orchestrated Fall of the Phoney Communism Causes Global Warming at BehestCaused by Corporate Air Conditioning Interests Controlled by Jews Fronting for the Knights Templar". But the 9/11 happened so they took up the "Bush behind 9/11" banner instead.

JFK, Elvis, Aliens, they are all old news, now they have a whole bunch of books, movies, and websites.

H

How insidious of you, Hero. Are you suggesting that if there were no new conspiracy theories, then Conspiracy Theorists would become utterly unimportant, even as subjects of ridicule, or owners of 'controversial' web sites and radio stations, or even subjects of 5 minute spots on Sci-Fi channel television shows?

And that THEY have something to gain from conspiracy theories themselves?

Ho ho! Sorry, Hero, that's just TOO unbelievable! ;-)

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

ANTIMASON

Saturday, January 20, 2007 2:18 AM

Quote:
Anthony T wrote- How to Write A Conspiracy Theory

Hello,

Having recently perused some wild and wacky conspiracy theories about 9/11 on this board, I thought I'd give a lesson to conspiracy theorists about how to concoct future conspiracy theories. I believe the secret to a good conspiracy theory is that it be simple and believable. Now, conspiracy theories by nature require some level of complexity to make them appealing. but I think you'll see how this works without planting demolitions, launching missiles, remote-controlled jets, or making weird disembarkations of passengers.

i disagree with your premise, conspiracy theories are not complex for 'appeal', but out of neccessity, in order to stay concealed. a larger, more complex conspiracy defies belief, as is clearly witnessed on these boards, and so this is COUNTED ON, since most people cannot fathom how far back the mechanisms of control reach.

if youve studies secret societies at all, they use the pyramid to represent a scale of enlightenment, and as the pyramid descends(from the eye of Lucifer) towards the base, the knowledge or 'light' tapers off, signifying the less aware or un-enlightened masses. a corporation only has a few people at the top making decisions, and from there it is compartmentalized all the way down to the lowly grunt worker; the worker does not need to know anything more than his task, yet still remains a 'cog in the machine' for the people at the top. take a look at any institution or organization and youll understand that this type of heirarchial micromanagement is a constant throughout history, and was conjured up from the beginning to rule over people. all that is needed is for the men at the top of all sectors to collude for mutual benefit, to establish an idealogy, a contract, and to relay and manifest this agenda through the pyramidal structure within each corporation. so when 125 of the world elite meet at the bilderberg conference once a year(under media blackout), you can bet theyre not just 'shooting the breeze'..

ANTHONYT

Saturday, January 20, 2007 2:49 AM

Ah, Antimason, then you will never win.

Because if the Conspirators create a version of events that is plausible, and you propose one that is not plausible, they win.

Create better conspiracy theories. Or you lose.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

ANTIMASON

Saturday, January 20, 2007 3:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:

What about the conspiracy the cover up the truth about 9/11 (that it simply was an attack by Al Queda terrorists using hyjacked airplanes) by coming up with all these conspiracy theories?

what about the conspiracy to coverup the conspiracy?

but im curious.. in your opinion, what is our motive? is it pure paranoia, or is it a secret hatred of America?

Quote:
You see all the great conspiracies were winding down, folk were losing interest. So all the conspiracy folk got together to invent a new conspiracy.

actually we got together, prewired building 7, coerced Bush to sign 199i(stay off Bin Laden trail), trained some terrorists at US military bases, made some money on the stock market, removed the transponders from the planes, distracted NORAD, and among other things.. removed any sign of a plane from the pentagon, along with all video footage

Quote:
Originally they intended to have the great "Orchestrated Fall of the Phoney Communism Causes Global Warming at BehestCaused by Corporate Air Conditioning Interests Controlled by Jews Fronting for the Knights Templar". But the 9/11 happened so they took up the "Bush behind 9/11" banner instead.

would Bush be president if it werent for his membership in the satanic skull and bones society? maybe.. because his family has a traitorous reputation and were entrenched sufficiently to shut up about things.. but if wasnt him, it would have been fellow bonesman Kerry, of the 'order of death'

Quote:
JFK, Elvis, Aliens, they are all old news, now they have a whole bunch of books, movies, and websites.

oh, but dont forget, we're out to make money too. only wait, we have no mainstream cable networks.. hmm? thats strange, wheres our money coming from, since we're denied a public platform? FOX, CNN, NBC.. theyre all private corporations, out entirely for money.. who admittedly propogate the establishments viewpoint and purpetuate their false political paradigm; but you dont think they have an alterior motive?

i dont appreciate being implicitly referred to as a terrorist, because i doubt and scrutinize the government.. something the corporate media mouthpieces like Sean Hannity dont have the balls to do( but the sheer amount of propoganda makes it crystal clear anyways that theyve got their nose up the pentagons asshole). in the end we have no motive in all of this but the truth, which is something that is becoming an antonymn to government

ANTIMASON

Saturday, January 20, 2007 3:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:

Ah, Antimason, then you will never win.

Because if the Conspirators create a version of events that is plausible, and you propose one that is not plausible, they win.

Create better conspiracy theories. Or you lose.

9/11 seems intricate because it was- if it could possibly have been explained solely by 19 hijackers and some negligent politicians, then it would have been... but the reality is that only a far reaching element within government could have pulled it off; claiming 19 hijackers did it out of the blue is a little more difficult to explain. i have no need to base an arguement on false/fabricated evidence, we claim the buildings were prewired with thermate because THEY FOUND TRACES OF IT AMONG THE DEBRIS! on its own that would sound 'crazy'.. but if that seems unlikely, what are the odds that Bushs bro Marvin operated Securacom, the company in charge of tower security? i didnt peice this together out of my own clever ingenuity, its a fact.. just like the CIA insider trading and numerous warnings from other intelligence agencies etc etc. oversimplifying the evidence just damages the case for those who want to expose the roots of the conspiracy, not just the shallow visible surface

FLETCH2

Saturday, January 20, 2007 4:22 AM

Intricate plans don't work. Ask Napoleon.

ANTHONYT

Saturday, January 20, 2007 5:20 AM

"i dont appreciate being implicitly referred to as a terrorist, because i doubt and scrutinize the government.."

I don't think anybody has implied that you are a terrorist. A lot of people imply that you are off your rocker.

But anyways, try to answer me these questions:

1) What is the desired effect of the 9/11 conspiracy?

2) Why could this effect not be achieved without planting explosives (Thermite, even!) within the Twin Towers?

3) You say traces of Thermite were discovered in the wreckage of the towers. What, specifically was found, and by whom? Do you have copies of the reports in question?

4) Why was it necessary to use a (missile/military jet) to strike the Pentagon, when regular commercial airliners were available for the job, and would fit the bill of goods the authorities are trying to sell?

5) Why would you disembark a plane full of people and then fake the crash of their plane, when it is easier to actually crash the plane they are on?

Please take on these points, one by one, as I have presented them. Please avoid tangents like Satanic worshipping and Skull and Bones unless they are directly related to these points.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

BUFFALOPHIL

Saturday, January 20, 2007 6:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
"i dont appreciate being implicitly referred to as a terrorist, because i doubt and scrutinize the government.."

I don't think anybody has implied that you are a terrorist. A lot of people imply that you are off your rocker.

But anyways, try to answer me these questions:

1) What is the desired effect of the 9/11 conspiracy?

2) Why could this effect not be achieved without planting explosives (Thermite, even!) within the Twin Towers?

3) You say traces of Thermite were discovered in the wreckage of the towers. What, specifically was found, and by whom? Do you have copies of the reports in question?

4) Why was it necessary to use a (missile/military jet) to strike the Pentagon, when regular commercial airliners were available for the job, and would fit the bill of goods the authorities are trying to sell?

5) Why would you disembark a plane full of people and then fake the crash of their plane, when it is easier to actually crash the plane they are on?

Please take on these points, one by one, as I have presented them. Please avoid tangents like Satanic worshipping and Skull and Bones unless they are directly related to these points.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

Anthony, you rock.

"I cannot abide useless people."

ANTIMASON

Saturday, January 20, 2007 8:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
"i dont appreciate being implicitly referred to as a terrorist, because i doubt and scrutinize the government.."

I don't think anybody has implied that you are a terrorist. A lot of people imply that you are off your rocker.

exactly, we're either crazy, or terrorists.. but theres no possibility that we're onto something?

Quote:
But anyways, try to answer me these questions:

1) What is the desired effect of the 9/11 conspiracy?

it most likely serves many purposes, but most importantly to bring America under a one world government

Quote:
2) Why could this effect not be achieved without planting explosives (Thermite, even!) within the Twin Towers?

because maybe the planes alone werent sufficient to bring the towers down, and this was taken into consideration; if youre asking me why the towers needed to collapse, then its a matter of symbolism(like Hitlers Reichstag fire). if the buildings werent destroyed in such a polarizing manner, and than driven into our heads by the media, the emotional build up for a war on terror or in Iraq just would not have persisted.

Quote:
3) You say traces of Thermite were discovered in the wreckage of the towers. What, specifically was found, and by whom? Do you have copies of the reports in question?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4884818450327382904

Quote:
4) Why was it necessary to use a (missile/military jet) to strike the Pentagon, when regular commercial airliners were available for the job, and would fit the bill of goods the authorities are trying to sell?

im not sure.. but lets talk about what was found; its no conspiracy that all the film has been confiscated, no wreckage has ever been shown, and the original photos show an impact crater that could not possibly have come from a commercial airliner

Quote:
5) Why would you disembark a plane full of people and then fake the crash of their plane, when it is easier to actually crash the plane they are on?

why create a false flag terror event to begin with? what do they care.. the purpose is to fullfill an agenda, its all a means to an end.. if they need to turn transponders off and set up CIA decoy drills they will

FLETCH2

Saturday, January 20, 2007 9:05 AM

Seems to me.

1) You don't need to bring the towers down to get our attention or to make the American people mad enough to endorse the administration's agenda if that was the objective. The loss of life alone would be enough. As I stated before I think this delusion of yours is a coping mechanism to deal with the fact that you just can't believe that the Towers could be destroyed by the jets alone. So even though the conspiracy you are talking about would be a million times more difficult and infinately more likely to be discovered, you prefer it to the real event because it's more satisfying. It's like bank robberies, most real ones involve a handfull of men and if they are successfull take less than 3 minutes, but reality isn't thrilling enough, so when Hollywood does a bank robbery there is an intricate plan, lots of robbers and fancy gadgets. Reality is often not as satisfing as fiction.

2) If you plan to ram a jet into a building probably killing a minimum of 200 folks inside, you wouldn't bother to disembark the 40 or so on the plane. Generally mass murderers don't have scruples. You turn transponders off to make it harder for the plane to be tracked from the ground and hopefully delay interception. What the hijackers did on the day shows that they had planned for the possibility of a USAF interception, something they would have known wouldn't happen if the US military was in on the plot.

What I think we've proven here is that the conspiracy you are presenting is far more elaborate, cumbersome and risky than any number of ways the administration COULD have used to create the same event. In planning something you always t6ry to go with the simple plan and remove as many variables as possible. Bear in mind that if a plan like this was discovered almost everbody involved would be guilty of treason. You would want to remove every posibility of failure and keep it as simple as you could.

It's magic thinking. You are psychologically incapable of accepting that 19 nobodies with a few thousand dollars and a grudge could do an end run around a million man defence department and destroy a billion dollar building. If that were possible then you could never be safe, because you can find 19 guys with a grudge anywhere. In addition though you think the government is crooked you have a patriotic streak, part of you doesn't want to believe that 19 bozo's could successfully attack the US of A. It's shaming and humiliating. It is better to imagine that some traitor did this --- that powerfull America did this to herself --- than to live with the humiliation that this was planned by losers sitting in a cave in Afghanistan. It's like "The Mouse that Roared" you don't want to admit the US was beaten up by the dutchy of Gran Fenwick.

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Saturday, January 20, 2007 4:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by antimason:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4884818450327382904

Like any good conspiracy theorist, Professor Jones has substituted an overly elaborate solution for a simple one. First of all, I’ll address your initial claim, because it is not Professor Jones’ claim. To my knowledge thermite/thermate was not found among WTC wreckage. While thermite/thermate residue may have been found by someone, this really tells us nothing, because these residues (aluminum compounds and sulfur) are present in the construction materials used to build the WTC and most other modern buildings.

Now Professor Jones’ claim is not that these residues (much less the actual thermite) were found, in fact he agrees that such residue would be indistinguishable from construction residue, but rather that the molten stream appearing from the impact site of WTC2 was inconsistent with pure molten aluminum and therefore must have been molten steel, which Professor Jones contends could only have been created by a thermite reaction. He presents no evidence of this other then the fact that molten aluminum alloys, at ~500-600ºC, does not radiate in the visible and therefore appears silvery in contrast to molten steel (at temperatures deemed inconsistent with low-oxygen burning jet fuel). So Professor Jones proposes this elaborate conclusion that some thermite reaction must be present, and that the steel beams in the WTC were thermally cut using some thermite reaction.

The problem with this is that there is no evidence for it, and it is based on a strawman. No one has ever argued that the molten stream appearing from WTC2 was pure aluminum. There is no conceivable way in which the airframe could have melted into pure molten aluminum alloys. There would have been, at the very least paint and insulation mixed with the aluminum, along with any number of countless debris picked up within the WTC. This debris in the molten aluminum would have caused the stream to radiate very visibly yellow to red, which is precisely what we see.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

ANTHONYT

Saturday, January 20, 2007 5:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by antimason:
Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
"i dont appreciate being implicitly referred to as a terrorist, because i doubt and scrutinize the government.."

I don't think anybody has implied that you are a terrorist. A lot of people imply that you are off your rocker.

exactly, we're either crazy, or terrorists.. but theres no possibility that we're onto something?

Of course there's the possibility that you're on to something. But you've done nothing to bolster that possibility. By the way, stop with the terrorist thing already. No one thinks you are a terrorist.

Quote:

Quote:
But anyways, try to answer me these questions:

1) What is the desired effect of the 9/11 conspiracy?

it most likely serves many purposes, but most importantly to bring America under a one world government

Okay, I was looking for an immediate effect, like, 'scare folks.' But I'll take your answer.

Quote:

Quote:
2) Why could this effect not be achieved without planting explosives (Thermite, even!) within the Twin Towers?

because maybe the planes alone werent sufficient to bring the towers down, and this was taken into consideration; if youre asking me why the towers needed to collapse, then its a matter of symbolism(like Hitlers Reichstag fire). if the buildings werent destroyed in such a polarizing manner, and than driven into our heads by the media, the emotional build up for a war on terror or in Iraq just would not have persisted.

Two planes crash into a building, killing hundreds instantly. Burning fuel threatens hundreds more. People, filled with fear, jump to their deaths and splatter on the asphalt. Hundreds escape with harrowing details of terror and feelings of helplessness. The news airs footage of this 24/7. Eventually, the World Trade Center buildings are declared condemned and are manually demolished. No one feels safe any more.

Nope. No buildings needed to fall. And I'd have been plenty enraged enough to do everything I did, no matter whether they fell or not.

Quote:

Quote:
3) You say traces of Thermite were discovered in the wreckage of the towers. What, specifically was found, and by whom? Do you have copies of the reports in question?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4884818450327382904

Okay, so no actual Thermite was found by anyone. It was inferred by faulty logic.

Thermite, incidentally, is Aluminum and Iron Oxide. It burns at the remarkable temperature of 4000 degrees, hotter than the suface of the sun. More remarkable, thermite can't be ignited with just anything, you need other exotic components, like magnesium, to set it off. This is because it ignites at 1,400 degrees. Remember, Thermite is Aluminum and Rusty Iron. It's burning metal. There are a lot better materials to use to weaken structures than thermite. Also remember, if you had magnesium, which burns at 1,400 degrees, you wouldn't NEED the Thermite. Silly Rabbit. You got complicated for no reason again.

Thermite Data Sheet: http://www.unitednuclear.com/thermitemsds.htm

Quote:

Quote:
4) Why was it necessary to use a (missile/military jet) to strike the Pentagon, when regular commercial airliners were available for the job, and would fit the bill of goods the authorities are trying to sell?

im not sure.. but lets talk about what was found; its no conspiracy that all the film has been confiscated, no wreckage has ever been shown, and the original photos show an impact crater that could not possibly have come from a commercial airliner

You're not sure? That's compelling. There is no reason a military jet/missile needed to be used. You're right that it's no conspiracy that all film has been confiscated. They do that during an investigation, for perfectly legitimate reasons. As for an impact crater that 'could not possible have come from a commercial airliner' that's a completely subjective and unsupported statement

ANTIMASON

Saturday, January 20, 2007 8:39 PM

Quote:
antimason- why create a false flag terror event to begin with? what do they care.. the purpose is to fullfill an agenda, its all a means to an end.. if they need to turn transponders off and set up CIA decoy drills they will

Quote:
AnthonyT- This is the second question in a row that you failed to answer. "If they need to, they will!" But they don't need to, so they didn't. Thanks for playing.

well you never answered my question, which is why elements within government would stage false flag terror on their own citizens to begin with? the answeres obvious.. to fullfill an agenda... so if bringing down 2 buildings, including one acrossed the street, which wasnt even hit by a plane, is neccessary to condition people.. then so be it. why did larry silverstien, the buildings owner, take out an incredibly comprehensive insurance plan just months prior to the buildings destruction... just a lucky guess i suspect huh? and the PNAC documents calling for a 'new pearl harbor'.. that was just wishful thinking?

bottom line is your telling me what you need to hear, in order to believe the evidence, and im showing you that the evidence speaks for itself, if only you are willing to accept it

FLETCH2

Saturday, January 20, 2007 8:45 PM

Wasn't Silverstien in legal ranglings over his insurance for the last 4 years? I'd hardly call that comprehensive. In addition he didn't own the building, he rented it. In most juristictions renters have to take insurance on a building so the owners property is protected in the case the renter does something stupid. Likewise when you have a morgage you have insurance on a building as a condition of the loan because the bank doesnt want to risk it's investment.

As for the PNAC thing, its not that uncommon for think tanks to discuss conditions needed for certain types of policy to be possible. That doesnt even mean they WANT the condition to happen much less that they organised it.

For example at $3 a gallon first generation hybrid vehicles just pay for the extra cost of production in savings at the pump. So if someone asked me to write a paper discussing the situations in which unversal adoption of hybrids were likely I might say that it would require prices of $4 a gallon or better. That doesnt mean I want gas to be $4 a gallon or that if it rose to $4 a gallon that I'd somehow orchestrated that to push my "agenda" of universal hybrid acceptance.

The British government actually commisions "blue sky" documents from experts. If X happened what would be the result? These are not documents planing to do X, these are documents to get an idea what you could do if X happened.

BUFFALOPHIL

Saturday, January 20, 2007 10:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by antimason:
the evidence speaks for itself, if only you are willing to accept it

Isn't that what people say about God?

I'm not saying that God isn't real, I'm just saying that it is something based in belief, not necessarily on facts.

Which is exactly what you're asking us to do. Believe in something for which there is no basis in fact. This is a real life event though, not something to do with Theology or faith.

"I cannot abide useless people" -old man, "Shindig"

ANTIMASON

Sunday, January 21, 2007 12:38 AM

Quote:
FLETCH2-
As for the PNAC thing, its not that uncommon for think tanks to discuss conditions needed for certain types of policy to be possible. That doesnt even mean they WANT the condition to happen much less that they organised it.

are you some kind of elite apologist? i guess Bush doesnt mean to allow the rape of America by Mexico.. we genuinely just cant control the borders, huh? its rediculous, but its the same logic..

have you read through the PNAC documents? if your gonna tell me that our foreign policy, which is ohh so identical to the PNAC strategy, in fact just happened by chance.. then your crazy. its been 7 years since the last of those documents was published, and theyve foretold almost to a T our foreign policy; that kind of thing.. especially when it requires trillions of dollars and immense political support... just doesnt happen by accident, ok?

ANTIMASON

Sunday, January 21, 2007 1:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BuffaloPhil:

Which is exactly what you're asking us to do. Believe in something for which there is no basis in fact.

"there are none more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free"

BUFFALOPHIL

Sunday, January 21, 2007 1:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by antimason:
Quote:
Originally posted by BuffaloPhil:

Which is exactly what you're asking us to do. Believe in something for which there is no basis in fact.

"there are none more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free"

I see that you completely avoided denying that you have no basis in true fact for your argument.

And how am I not free? I can see right now that I can do anything that anyone could do before Bush came along. Or the neonazis. You should seriously consider seeing a psychiatrist, I'm pretty sure you're paranoid.

In fact, name one thing I can't do now that I could have done before the Bush administration.
"I cannot abide useless people" -old man, "Shindig"

ANTIMASON

Sunday, January 21, 2007 2:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BuffaloPhil:
I see that you completely avoided denying that you have no basis in true fact for your argument.

your statement was too vague, subjective and innaccurate, so what did you want me to respond to? are you denying Marvin Bush worked for Securacom? or that CIA members were linked to insider trading the morning of 9/11? those are facts, friend.. but maybe theyre irrelevant to you, because you have no use for them in your magic bullet government propoganda story you worship

there is a broader motive, supported by the central banks, for global government, and its been admitted by guys like Rockefeller and Kissinger for years, but the masses at the bottom of the pyramid choose to remain ignorant about it. that was the real motive behind 9/11.. not religion, like you were lead to believe

BUFFALOPHIL

Sunday, January 21, 2007 3:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by antimason:

your statement was too vague, subjective and innaccurate, so what did you want me to respond to? are you denying Marvin Bush worked for Securacom? or that CIA members were linked to insider trading the morning of 9/11? those are facts, friend.. but maybe theyre irrelevant to you, because you have no use for them in your magic bullet government propoganda story you worship

there is a broader motive, supported by the central banks, for global government, and its been admitted by guys like Rockefeller and Kissinger for years, but the masses at the bottom of the pyramid choose to remain ignorant about it. that was the real motive behind 9/11.. not religion, like you were lead to believe

Ok I was vague. But I don't "worship" the magic bullet story. Besides, define "CIA agents were 'linked' to inside traders." Hell, that could mean something like "they sneezed on an inside trader" or were related to one. I think your conspiracy theory is far to complex to work. Like that one guy said, "Complex plans don't work. Ask Napoleon."

I have no illusions about the state of our government, I know that they're not what they seem to be. I simply see no motivation for the government to be as stupid as to do all the things that you claim they did on 9/11.

If there is a movement for a global government, I don't see how they're getting anywhere anyway. Truth be told, I think we're all looking at this thing the wrong way. I don't know the right way, but hey, I've got time...I hope.

"I cannot abide useless people" -old man, "Shindig"

ANTHONYT

Sunday, January 21, 2007 4:03 AM

I gave you five points to answer. You couldn't answer them all, and one of them was answered with a question.

Of those you did answer, your answer was hardly comprised of proof.

You failed, Antimason. Stop arguing, and get better evidence.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

PIRATENEWS

Sunday, January 21, 2007 4:42 AM

Harpers Magazine vs Official Conspiracy Theory October 2004
www.harpers.org/WhitewashAsPublicService.html
www.harpers.org/Newsstand200410.html

NEVER FORGET: CIA HQ FELL DOWN IN 6 SECONDS
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/ar/t1956.htm

Quote:

PNTV WORLD EXCLUSIVE: All 24 hours from American Scholars Symposium
www.piratenews.org/911con.html

"I would like to assure the world that I did not plan the recent attacks.”
—Usama bin Laden, CNN, "Bin Laden says he wasn't behind attacks," September 17, 2001
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/inv.binladen.denial/

"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming."
—Dick Cheney, "Interview of the Vice President by Tony Snow", March 29, 2006
www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/03/20060329-2.html

QUESTION: "Mr President, in your speeches, you rarely mention Osama Bin Laden. Why is that?"
GEORGE BUSH JR: "I don't know where he is. I just don't spend that much time on him."

"9/11 is not mentioned on Usama Bin Laden’s Most Wanted page. He has not been formally indicted and charged in connection with 9/11 because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11.”
—FBI agent Rex Tomb, June 6, 2006
www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/terbinladen.htm

"The goal has never been to get Bin Laden."
—General Richard Myers, chairman, US Joint Chiefs of Staff
www.myspace.com/911pressfortruth

OPERATION NORTHWOODS - the signed confession by US Govt for perping terrorist attacks in USA
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/doc1.pdf
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662&page=1

"THE HANGMAN EQUALS DEATH!
THE DEVIL EQUALS DEATH!
DEATH EQUALS DEATH!"
-Initiation ritual in Yale University's Skull & Bones Senior Secret Society, New Haven, Connecticut (Ron Rosenbaum, New York Observer, "At Skull and Bones, Bush's Secret Club Initiates Ream Gore," 4/2/01)
www.prisonplanet.com/initiates_ream_gore.html

"Let us never tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories concerning the attacks of September the 11th; malicious lies that attempt to shift the blame away from the terrorists, themselves, away from the guilty."
-Junior Bush, United Nations Corporation, November 10, 2001
www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/11/20011110-3.html

"If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, heh heh heh, just so long as I'm the dictator, heh heh heh."
-Junior Bush, convicted drunk driver, convicted cokehead, arrested for vandalism, arrested for theft, convicted AWOL, convicted of disobeying a lawful order for drug test, demoted from pilot to mail clerk, sentenced to 6 months extra duty for desertion of Vietnam Wars, sued for rape, currently sued under RICO Act for perping the 9/11 terrorist massacres, performs ritual human sacrifice to Molech/Lucifer/Satan at Bohemian Grove, faggot sodomite who masterbates in coffins with Victor Victoria Ashe
www.vestigialconscience.com/bush-dictator.mpeg
www.suetheterrorists.net
www.911forthetruth.com

Bush Gang and Bill Clinton-Blythe Rockefeller performing "mock" human sacrifice to 50-foot tall idol of Molech/Lucifer/Satan at Bohemian Grove. That's a "live" human body burning as it screams in agony over the loudspeakers. Photo copyright Bohemian Club annual yearbook
http://www.43places.com/places/view/379646

VIDEO DOWNLOAD: Dark Secrets Inside Bohemian Grove and The Order of Death
Two documentaries in one - An employee of Bohemian Grove presidential compound used undercover video to capture the 50-foot-tall idol of Molech and "mock" human sacrifice up close and in broad daylight - Undercover video by Infowars.com
http://www.lastingnetworks.com/alex/

VIDEO DOWNLOAD: Boners at Bohemian Grove
Music video by Counter Co

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME

ANTIMASON

Sunday, January 21, 2007 5:18 AM

Quote:
BuffaloPhil- define "CIA agents were 'linked' to inside traders."

http://www.hereinreality.com/insidertrading.html
long story short, people in the CIA profitted off of United and AAs losses that day

Quote:
I think your conspiracy theory is far to complex to work. Like that one guy said, "Complex plans don't work. Ask Napoleon."

Quote:
David Rockefeller- "We are grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected the promises of discretion
for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subject to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world-government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the National autodetermination practiced in past centuries"

you know the Rockefellers right(of the NY chase manhattan bank/ co-founders of the Federal Reserve)? hes also known for saying

Quote:
"We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order."

just take a look at the dollar.(past the luciferian masonic symbolism).. understand that they took us off the gold standard to concentrate the true wealth of the world, and in turn printed us worthless fiber, inflated and manipulated, with an inherent debt, and an illegal income tax to further the burden; and in the future, they will cause a collapse sufficient enough to bring AMerica to her knees and accept this global authority that has been constructed right in front of our faces

Quote:
"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them (around the banks), will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered." -Thomas Jefferson

Quote:
"Like it or not, you are a slave. You admit you are a slave every April 15th! That's when you sign forms that "voluntarily" lay bare to the government the most private details of your life! And few people realize the income tax is a slave tax. It can never be compatible with the life of
a free people." ALAN KEYES - Republican Nominee for President

PIRATENEWS

Sunday, January 21, 2007 5:58 AM

Alan Keyes was arrested for attempting to participate in the presidential debates. In 2004, Junior Bush arrested John Buchanan (Republican candidate), and arrested the nominees for the Green Party and Libertarian Party, when they tried to serve court documents during the presidential debates. Dyslexic Bush spells "freedom" as "f-a-s-c-i-s-m".

Quote:

"A slave is he who cannot speak his thoughts."
-Euripides

"In the first few days of the new session of Congress, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and big Washington insiders such as Public Citizen and Common Cause will try to silence critics by regulating us through quarterly reports to Congress. Failure to report would result in civil and potential criminal penalties. Section 220 of S. 1, the lobbying reform bill currently before the Senate, would require grassroots causes, even bloggers, who communicate to 500 or more members of the public on policy matters, to register and report quarterly to Congress the same as the big K Street lobbyists. Section 220 would amend existing lobbying reporting law by creating the most expansive intrusion on First Amendment rights ever. For the first time in history, critics of Congress will need to register and report with Congress itself. This latest attack on bloggers comes hot on the heels of Republican Senator John McCain's proposal to introduce legislation that would fine blogs up to $300,000 for offensive statements, photos and videos posted by visitors on comment boards."
-Richard A. Viguerie, Chairman, www.GrassrootsFreedom.com, January 17, 2007 (TN senators Lamar "I Raped Cathy O'Brien And Almost Killed Her" Alexander and Bob "I Hire Illegal Alien Felons" Corker both voted YES)
www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?
congress=110&session=1&vote=00002

"We're all black people now."
-Dick Gregory, September 12, 2001

slave.
Middle English sclave, from Old French esclave, from Medieval Latin sclvus, from Sclvus, Slav (from the widespread enslavement of captured Slavs in the early Middle Ages); see SLAV. Word History: The derivation of the word slave encapsulates a bit of European history and explains why the two words slaves and Slavs are so similar; they are, in fact, historically identical.
-American Heritage® Dictionary

"The people resemble a wild beast, which, naturally fierce and accustomed to live in the woods, has been brought up, as it were, in a prison and in servitude, and having by accident got its liberty, not being accustomed to search for its food, and not knowing where to conceal itself, easily becomes the prey of the first who seeks to incarcerate it again."
-Niccolo Machiavelli, Secretary of War for City-state of Florence, Italy, and tortured in his own city as a POW, from The Prince
www.constitution.org/mac/prince00.htm

"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children."
-Hosea 4:6, Christian Bible (KJV)

"Jews must destroy the books of the Christians, especially the New Testament."
-Jewish Babylonian Talmud, Shabbath 116a

"The following is a list of Jews who participated in the Revolutionary War: Major George Bush, Major Louis Bush and Major Solomon Bush."
-Jewish Calendar for Soldiers and Sailors, 1943-1944
www.sweetliberty.org/issues/israel/calendar.html

"The picture of American society has, if I may so speak, a surface covering of democracy, beneath which the old aristocratic colors sometimes peep out. Men do not receive the truth from their enemies, and their friends scarcely offer it to them; that is why I have spoken it."
-Count Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America
http://xroads.virginia.edu/~HYPER/DETOC/toc_indx.html

Junior Bush is 3rd cousin to the German Queen of England Elizabeth Sax Coberg Gotha

Bush family's head on a stick in British Parlia

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME

OLDENGLANDDRY

Sunday, January 21, 2007 8:46 AM

If it were'nt for conspiracy theories a hell of a lot of Publishers and Websites would go out of business.

Therefore:

Conspiracy creates Capital,
Capital fills the pockets of the ruling elite.

Ergo;
Conspiracy is the creation of the ruling elite.

My work here is done.

ANTHONYT

Sunday, January 21, 2007 1:02 PM

Five unanswered points.

A lot of mention of satanic worshipping, civil war era military service, and secret societies.

The five points remain.

One by one, gentlemen. If you really want to educate the masses, to wake them up from the matrix and make them free...

Five points. One by one.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

KHYRON

Sunday, January 21, 2007 2:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by oldenglanddry:
If it were'nt for conspiracy theories a hell of a lot of Publishers and Websites would go out of business.

Therefore:

Conspiracy creates Capital,
Capital fills the pockets of the ruling elite.

Ergo;
Conspiracy is the creation of the ruling elite.

My work here is done.

If it weren't for conspiracy theories a hell of a lot of publishers and websites would go out of business.

Therefore:

Conspiracy is entertainment.
Entertainment makes a working person's life seem less depressing.

Ergo;
Conspiracy is the creation of the working class.

Combined with oldenglanddry's deduction, we can conclude that conspiracy is a product of society. Glad we got that established.

My work here is also done.

PS: oldenglanddry, I didn't miss the irony in your post, just thought I'd have some fun.

The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.

BUFFALOPHIL

Sunday, January 21, 2007 5:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:

The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.

Hahahaha, this has to be one of the funniest quotes I've read, mostly because it's true. Where'd you find it?

"I cannot abide useless people" -old man, "Shindig"

KHYRON

Sunday, January 21, 2007 6:23 PM

One of Churchill's. No idea where I first saw it, but I must have been really stoned because I actually remembered it.

Here are some other gems regarding democracy:
"It's not the voting that's democracy; it's the counting." - Tom Stoppard
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch." - Benjamin Franklin
"Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right." - Henry Mencken
"Democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people, by the people, for the people." - Oscar Wilde

... and more relevant than ever:

"There are two things which a democratic people will always find very difficult - to begin a war and to end it." - Alexis de Tocqueville

Sorry about the thread-jacking. Uhm, the government made me do it... it's part of a conspiracy to distract you guys from discussing conspiracies.

The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.

FLETCH2

Sunday, January 21, 2007 7:03 PM

The MKUltra plan to indoctrinate the masses with Literary Cyncism is working!

KHYRON

Sunday, January 21, 2007 7:08 PM

That's just what the government wants you to think, Fletch.

The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.

FLETCH2

Sunday, January 21, 2007 7:33 PM

Or is it? Hmmmmm

OLDENGLANDDRY

Sunday, January 21, 2007 8:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:

PS: oldenglanddry, I didn't miss the irony in your post, just thought I'd have some fun.

I dont do Irony, that's woman's work.
No, wait, thats Ironing.

ANTIMASON

Sunday, January 21, 2007 9:00 PM

Quote:
Oldenglanddry-
If it were'nt for conspiracy theories a hell of a lot of Publishers and Websites would go out of business.

Therefore:

Conspiracy creates Capital,
Capital fills the pockets of the ruling elite.

Ergo;
Conspiracy is the creation of the ruling elite.

My work here is done.

alright buddy... and what about the corporate media??.. who altogether makes more money during sweeps than all the conspiracy websites and authors would in a year combined.. so get real, whos really out for the money?

ANTHONYT

Monday, January 22, 2007 4:30 AM

Still debating your self interest instead of the conspiracy you wish to expose.

Five points to answer. The safety of the world relies on your ability to answer them convincingly.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

OLDENGLANDDRY

Monday, January 22, 2007 6:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by antimason:
Quote:
Oldenglanddry-
If it were'nt for conspiracy theories a hell of a lot of Publishers and Websites would go out of business.

Therefore:

Conspiracy creates Capital,
Capital fills the pockets of the ruling elite.

Ergo;
Conspiracy is the creation of the ruling elite.

My work here is done.

alright buddy... and what about the corporate media??.. who altogether makes more money during sweeps than all the conspiracy websites and authors would in a year combined.. so get real, whos really out for the money?

Well "Buddy", conspiracy theories are big money earners. It's a multi million dollar business. Just look at the amount of money PIRATENEWS claims to make from his website. Do you think he's doing it for the good of mankind? No, he does it because idiots like you will give him credence.
The fact is that we live in a GLOBAL Capitalist social system. Capitalism pervades every level of society in every corner of the world and yet as a means of improving humanities basic qualities of life has been impotent for nearly 100 years. In order for Capitalism to keep tottering along it has to use the preverbial "oldest trick in the book" I.E. "Divide and rule" and the associated distraction tactics that make the strategy work.
The biggest and most effective distraction tactic there is is the rumour, and Conspiracy is the ultimate in these tactics because it is self-perpetuating and plays on the ideas that people like to think that they are part of some great adventure and bigger than they actually are. I or indeed you could go to any forum on any website and start a conspiracy theory off the top of our heads that would be believed by thousands in a matter of days. It's a little like religion, leaps of faith, the very act of believing it makes it true for a great many people.
Now, answer ANTHONY's 5 points or go away.

ANTIMASON

Tuesday, January 23, 2007 12:23 AM

i already answered your five points, but they werent what you wanted to hear

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:

But anyways, try to answer me these questions:

1) What is the desired effect of the 9/11 conspiracy?

a one world government. the consitituion protects our rights, and our sovereignty.. so they needed a disaster to sidetrack us, while they systematically weakened it and undermined its relevance; this has been happening for centuries, but now its time to use America specifically to foment WW3 and a conflict between Islam and christianity; to converge the two worlds, and bring them both under the authority of the UNs founders, the secret societies(and central bankers), and their one world government agenda. we could go through a hundred examples of how this war benefits private parties and the multinational globalist plot, but you could easily research them yourself aswell; whats important is the motive, the premise.. which is a NWO

Quote:
2) Why could this effect not be achieved without planting explosives (Thermite, even!) within the Twin Towers?

i believe that without the distraction of the towers collapse, a legitimate investigation may actually have occurred and uncovered the complicity and orchestration of elements directly within the American industrial complex; but given the physcological assault by the pentagon and mass media on the public the days and weaks afterwards, its not suprising that all the evidence of government prior knowledge was swept under the rug, and discarded as 'non sense' and 'paranoid', in the rush to go after the bad guys.. and implement all this extreme, predrafted legislation like the Patriot act

Quote:
3) You say traces of Thermite were discovered in the wreckage of the towers. What, specifically was found, and by whom? Do you have copies of the reports in question?

well.. its hard to test for it now, because 'controlled demolition' came in, recovered all the salvageable material, and promptly sent it to china, barring any investigation. but the samples of debris which have been examined, by professor Jones and other colleagues, have reached a similar consenses, that fire and gravity could not have contributed to the high energy release and the pulverization of steel and other materials(aside from the molten, dripping steel seen falling from the impact zones in video footage).

Quote:
4) Why was it necessary to use a (missile/military jet) to strike the Pentagon, when regular commercial airliners were available for the job, and would fit the bill of goods the authorities are trying to sell?

i believe because the target was calculated to hit an area with the fewest personel, and they didnt want to take the chance on missing the section of the pentagon under construction, and say.. hit Rumsfields office at the opposite end. but why are you excusing the governments denial of our right to see the physical, video proof that it was a commercial flight that hit the building? the government could simply give back the security videos from the nearby businesses(since im sure theyve been examined already).. and shut us up with the proof, but instead they released a few grainy frames with a post obstructing the incoming projectile, and locked the rest away, including the black boxes and FAA transmissions as 'classified/ national security'

Quote:
5) Why would you disembark a plane full of people and then fake the crash of their plane, when it is easier to actually crash the plane they are on?

i dont know all the details.. we are simply pointing out inconsistencies in the official story. why was wreckage recovered over 8 miles away from the PA crash, if it indeed came down in a struggle? why was military craft seen in the area just prior to the crash? according to the families of flight 93, who were allowed by the FBI to hear the cockpit voice recorder, their were no conclusive signs that a struggle ever occurred.. so all we're doing is peicing together the events as they were seen, and not j

ANTHONYT

Tuesday, January 23, 2007 2:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antimason:

i already answered your five points, but they werent what you wanted to hear

You previously attempted to answer the five points. One wasn't answered at all, and one was answered with a question. Let's see how this new analysis goes:

Quote:

Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by AnthonyT:

But anyways, try to answer me these questions:

1) What is the desired effect of the 9/11 conspiracy?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

a one world government. the consitituion protects our rights, and our sovereignty.. so they needed a disaster to sidetrack us, while they systematically weakened it and undermined its relevance; this has been happening for centuries, but now its time to use America specifically to foment WW3 and a conflict between Islam and christianity; to converge the two worlds, and bring them both under the authority of the UNs founders, the secret societies(and central bankers), and their one world government agenda. we could go through a hundred examples of how this war benefits private parties and the multinational globalist plot, but you could easily research them yourself aswell; whats important is the motive, the premise.. which is a NWO

Okay, I'm with you so far, antimason. A New World Order, built upon a foundation of fear and manipulation. Let's see how they did it:

Quote:

Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2) Why could this effect not be achieved without planting explosives (Thermite, even!) within the Twin Towers?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i believe that without the distraction of the towers collapse, a legitimate investigation may actually have occurred and uncovered the complicity and orchestration of elements directly within the American industrial complex; but given the physcological assault by the pentagon and mass media on the public the days and weaks afterwards, its not suprising that all the evidence of government prior knowledge was swept under the rug, and discarded as 'non sense' and 'paranoid', in the rush to go after the bad guys.. and implement all this extreme, predrafted legislation like the Patriot act

Okay. Your contention here is that the Towers needed to collapse to provide a distraction which would prevent a proper investigation. Your contention is that if A) Towers Collapse then we get B) Bad investigation. But presumably if C) Towers were simply f-ed up then we'd get D) Good investigation.

What I don't understand is why the towers collapse is seen as the 'magic threshold' where we suddenly bend over for the government. The collapsing towers were certainly startling images, replayed infinitely. But then, too, were the planes crashing into the buildings, fireballs flying out of the sides. In order for me to accept this answer I have to believe that the average american is only emotionally moved by kamikaze attacks that collapse buildings, and not by kamikaze attacks that 'merely' cause hundreds of deaths and result in a building being rendered uninhabitable.

In fact, we know from the Oklahoma bombings that a building doesn't need to collapse for Americans to be shocked and outraged.

Quote:

Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3) You say traces of Thermite were discovered in the wreckage of the towers. What, specifically was found, and by whom? Do you have copies of the reports in question?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

well.. its hard to test for it now, because 'controlled demolition' came in, recovered all the salvageable material, and promptly sent it to china, barring any investigation. but the samples of debris which have been examined, by professor Jones and other colleagues, and have reached a

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME

ANTIMASON

Tuesday, January 23, 2007 3:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by oldenglanddry:

Well "Buddy", conspiracy theories are big money earners. It's a multi million dollar business. Just look at the amount of money PIRATENEWS claims to make from his website. Do you think he's doing it for the good of mankind? No, he does it because idiots like you will give him credence.

do we have a cable news network? by that i mean, any influential media representation which supports our 'conspiratorial' view of society? no.. you have to seek it through the 'alternative' media, like literature, the internet or radio; but mainstream history is dominated by the establishment view, which just outright denies reality. the Federal reserve is a private bank, and they do control the US government... and the media wont say a damn thing to inform you, because theyre in on it. and if youll notice, theres a movement by people like John McCain and director of HS Michael Chertoff, to censor the internet, which is central for communication and dialogue(including knowledge exchange)... meanwhile big money is being thrown at the mouthpeice propoganda networks like CBS, Fox news, CNN.. because they support the establishment view of history. the media is used to stir the pot, and influence society subliminally in certain directions to obtain specific outcomes.. this was known from the beginning of television. if you wonder why Fox hates conspiracy theories, its because they harm corporate America.. which has done nothing but sale us out and undermine our constitution anyways

Quote:
The fact is that we live in a GLOBAL Capitalist social system. Capitalism pervades every level of society in every corner of the world and yet as a means of improving humanities basic qualities of life has been impotent for nearly 100 years.

thats because you do not understand the system; whoever creates the money, controls the government, period; and the central banks are owned privately by a relatively small group of individuals. the great depression is perfect evidence of their manipulation.. but that knowledge has been kept quite, because to expose the truth behind our monetary policy would cause a genuine revolution

Quote:
In order for Capitalism to keep tottering along it has to use the preverbial "oldest trick in the book" I.E. "Divide and rule" and the associated distraction tactics that make the strategy work.

exactly.. which is what mainstream media is used for, by its puppetmasters, to implant communist/humanist concepts into the American psyche- and condition you for the new world order, neo fuedalist global society being prepared for you

Quote:
The biggest and most effective distraction tactic there is is the rumour, and Conspiracy is the ultimate in these tactics because it is self-perpetuating and plays on the ideas that people like to think that they are part of some great adventure and bigger than they actually are.

distraction tactic from what? your unrealized enslavement? go back to sleep..

Quote:
I or indeed you could go to any forum on any website and start a conspiracy theory off the top of our heads that would be believed by thousands in a matter of days. It's a little like religion, leaps of faith, the very act of believing it makes it true for a great many people.

IMO, the trend of history towards the final global government is in itself the proof of God, and the prophecies regarding the system of the beast. it all comes down to.. where does man get his rights from? either you have God given rights, or government gives you your rights(which are dictated by men). does government exist to give man his rights? because, besides being communistic, it just exemplifies a servitude to our own creation... which is supposed to exist for our benefit. ultimately, who decides what is right(the elite)? a humanist would say that their are no empirical truths, that everything is relative, that we decide within their own conscience what is appropriate. take a look through history.. you couldnt keep track of the number o

FLETCH2

Tuesday, January 23, 2007 5:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by antimason:

Quote:
2) Why could this effect not be achieved without planting explosives (Thermite, even!) within the Twin Towers?

i believe that without the distraction of the towers collapse, a legitimate investigation may actually have occurred and uncovered the complicity and orchestration of elements directly within the American industrial complex; but given the physcological assault by the pentagon and mass media on the public the days and weaks afterwards, its not suprising that all the evidence of government prior knowledge was swept under the rug, and discarded as 'non sense' and 'paranoid', in the rush to go after the bad guys.. and implement all this extreme, predrafted legislation like the Patriot act

The problem with this is that it makes no sense. If you crash an airliner into a building and you investigate it, what you find is that a building was hit by an airliner. That evidence supports the official case. What you are saying is that supplemental charges were placed to ensure the destruction of the building to cover up the fact that there were supplemantal charges... redundant in the extreme.

Quote:

Quote:
3) You say traces of Thermite were discovered in the wreckage of the towers. What, specifically was found, and by whom? Do you have copies of the reports in question?

well.. its hard to test for it now, because 'controlled demolition' came in, recovered all the salvageable material, and promptly sent it to china, barring any investigation. but the samples of debris which have been examined, by professor Jones and other colleagues, have reached a similar consenses, that fire and gravity could not have contributed to the high energy release and the pulverization of steel and other materials(aside from the molten, dripping steel seen falling from the impact zones in video footage).

Nobody has found any molten steel on the site, the explanation for why the towers fell does not really on the ironwork melting to explain the collapse. Thermite would be a poor choice for this kind of demolition anyway, a fast, shaped explosive to sever key structural elements would be the only way to ensure success. Could you imagine if you set all of this up and the towers didn't fall? Leaving a whole building full of evidence? It actually makes more sense to just use the planes than to risk something going wrong in the confusion. Conspiracy theories are like Hollywood movies the plans always work, in real life people fail to properly demolish buildings every day.

Quote:

Quote:
4) Why was it necessary to use a (missile/military jet) to strike the Pentagon, when regular commercial airliners were available for the job, and would fit the bill of goods the authorities are trying to sell?

i believe because the target was calculated to hit an area with the fewest personel, and they didnt want to take the chance on missing the section of the pentagon under construction, and say.. hit Rumsfields office at the opposite end. but why are you excusing the governments denial of our right to see the physical, video proof that it was a commercial flight that hit the building?

Actually that's entirely the wrong way of doing it. Western culture has absorbed the Judeo Christian belief in manafest destiny. In reality you WANT the jet to hit Rummy's office (when he's not there of course) you want him to be a survivor put forward the idea that God spared him for greater things. Especially important if you plan on having him lead a war.

You are also especially forgetfull of what happened that day. Bush was shovelled onto Airforce One and flown around out of contact with anyone. First we heard from him after a couple of hours was from inside a concrete bunker in bugspit Idaho (or somewhere.) It took the speech with the Firemen at ground zero to restore his fortunes, for the first few hours the nescessary security made him look like a wimp. Now if you planned all this, if you knew that the attacks were over and t

BUFFALOPHIL

Tuesday, January 23, 2007 5:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by antimason:
i emplore you to do some research outside of your mainstream, accidental view of history, because they do exist, and are not the figment of our imaginations

This is what I've been waiting for. You finally suggested that we do research of our own (a reasonable request) rather than dogmatically asserting your opinions. Thank you Antimason.

P.S. I'm not being sarcastic. You're showing signs of being reasonable. That I can appreciate. ;-)

"I cannot abide useless people" -old man, "Shindig"

OLDENGLANDDRY

Tuesday, January 23, 2007 7:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by antimason:
Quote:
Originally posted by oldenglanddry:

Well "Buddy", conspiracy theories are big money earners. It's a multi million dollar business. Just look at the amount of money PIRATENEWS claims to make from his website. Do you think he's doing it for the good of mankind? No, he does it because idiots like you will give him credence.

do we have a cable news network? by that i mean, any influential media representation which supports our 'conspiratorial' view of society? no.. you have to seek it through the 'alternative' media, like literature, the internet or radio; but mainstream history is dominated by the establishment view, which just outright denies reality. the Federal reserve is a private bank, and they do control the US government... and the media wont say a damn thing to inform you, because theyre in on it. and if youll notice, theres a movement by people like John McCain and director of HS Michael Chertoff, to censor the internet, which is central for communication and dialogue(including knowledge exchange)... meanwhile big money is being thrown at the mouthpeice propoganda networks like CBS, Fox news, CNN.. because they support the establishment view of history. the media is used to stir the pot, and influence society subliminally in certain directions to obtain specific outcomes.. this was known from the beginning of television. if you wonder why Fox hates conspiracy theories, its because they harm corporate America.. which has done nothing but sale us out and undermine our constitution anyways

Quote:
The fact is that we live in a GLOBAL Capitalist social system. Capitalism pervades every level of society in every corner of the world and yet as a means of improving humanities basic qualities of life has been impotent for nearly 100 years.

thats because you do not understand the system; whoever creates the money, controls the government, period; and the central banks are owned privately by a relatively small group of individuals. the great depression is perfect evidence of their manipulation.. but that knowledge has been kept quite, because to expose the truth behind our monetary policy would cause a genuine revolution

Quote:
In order for Capitalism to keep tottering along it has to use the preverbial "oldest trick in the book" I.E. "Divide and rule" and the associated distraction tactics that make the strategy work.

exactly.. which is what mainstream media is used for, by its puppetmasters, to implant communist/humanist concepts into the American psyche- and condition you for the new world order, neo fuedalist global society being prepared for you

Quote:
The biggest and most effective distraction tactic there is is the rumour, and Conspiracy is the ultimate in these tactics because it is self-perpetuating and plays on the ideas that people like to think that they are part of some great adventure and bigger than they actually are.

distraction tactic from what? your unrealized enslavement? go back to sleep..

Quote:
I or indeed you could go to any forum on any website and start a conspiracy theory off the top of our heads that would be believed by thousands in a matter of days. It's a little like religion, leaps of faith, the very act of believing it makes it true for a great many people.

IMO, the trend of history towards the final global government is in itself the proof of God, and the prophecies regarding the system of the beast. it all comes down to.. where does man get his rights from? either you have God given rights, or government gives you your rights(which are dictated by men). does government exist to give man his rights? because, besides being communistic, it just exemplifies a servitude to our own creation... which is supposed to exist for our benefit. ultimately, who decides what is right(the elite)? a humanist would say that their are no empirical truths, that everything is relative, that we decide within their own conscience what is appropriate. take a look through histo

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME

KHYRON

Tuesday, January 23, 2007 7:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by oldenglanddry:
Why do the people who already run the world want to go to such elaborate lengths, and involve themselves in such incredible "plots" to attempt to take over the world that they are already in control of?

Because they were bored?

The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.

ANTIMASON

Tuesday, January 23, 2007 7:43 PM

Quote:
posted by Fletch2-
The problem with this is that it makes no sense. If you crash an airliner into a building and you investigate it, what you find is that a building was hit by an airliner. That evidence supports the official case.

unless different planes were envolved... that evidence is now long gone, irrecoverable

Quote:
What you are saying is that supplemental charges were placed to ensure the destruction of the building to cover up the fact that there were supplemantal charges... redundant in the extreme.

no.. i still think youre missing the point; elements within government guided this plot from conception to fullfillment.. so the intent of destroying the buildings, (including building 7 and the pentagon crash) was just meant to further compound the confusion and hysteria, and aide in the coverup by eliminating evidence.

theres a quote from a book called 'the Unseen Hand', which states

Quote:
"it is difficult for the observer to believe that such a giant, well organized conspiracy does exist, and that the goals they envision for the world(a NWO) are real. this disbelief by the public is what fuels their success, and it behooves the 'Conspiracy' to plan their events in such a way that the truth becomes so incredible and so preposterous, that no one would believe they(the events) were intentionally created.

i believe that if by some miracle, one of the towers survived, we could potentially have had an entire crime scene full of evidence of this coverup.. and the public would have at minimum, demanded the release of black box/fAA and NORAD data to assist in the investigation- which never really happened because of the chaos at ground zero. it seems to a lot of people that if you really scrutinize the events prior to 9/11, there are too many questions that have never been brought to light with sufficient clarity, or have been outright ommitted, distorted or classified.. so considering the political/social ramifications of 9/11, we ought to make damn sure we're making decisions based on fact, and not the Pentagon/shadow governments orchestrated crisis and propoganda

Quote:
Nobody has found any molten steel on the site, the explanation for why the towers fell does not really on the ironwork melting to explain the collapse.

if thermate was distributed throughout the structure, then the molten steel would be evidence of this; besides the video, and the tons of documentation that any search engine will uncover, the firemen and construction workers at ground zero reported molten steel in the towers basement as much as two weeks after the events- that kind of energy simply cannot be duplicated by jet fuel, or a structural collapse

Quote:
Thermite would be a poor choice for this kind of demolition anyway, a fast, shaped explosive to sever key structural elements would be the only way to ensure success.

thermate.. which i believe is also evident from the initial impacts, and the massive fireball that insued. the thermate obviously would have increased the temperatures of the impact, and used the jet fuel as a catalyst to systematically weaken the buildings structural rigidity

Quote:
Conspiracy theories are like Hollywood movies the plans always work, in real life people fail to properly demolish buildings every day.

ok.. but 3 buildings properly demolish themselves in a single day?

Quote:
Actually that's entirely the wrong way of doing it... Western culture has absorbed the Judeo Christian belief in manafest destiny. In reality you WANT the jet to hit Rummy's office (when he's not there of course) you want him to be a survivor put forward the idea that God spared him for greater things. Especially important if you plan on having him lead a war.

your theory sounds equally as hollywood

Quote:
You are also especially forgetfull of what happened that day. Bush was shovelled onto Airforce One and flown around out of contact with anyone.

he was at an elementary school, doing a fairly wel

FLETCH2

Tuesday, January 23, 2007 8:16 PM

If you used airliners and the towers didn't fall then the only evidence there would be to find would be that airliners were involved. You use the unsubstatiated "military aircraft" and "thermite" to ensure the destruction of the building and cover up "evidence" What evidence? That you used "military aircraft" and thermite.

Like I said, things go wrong in demolitions all the time, and that's when there isn't planes being flown into things and ongoing fires. If you rigged the building as you suggest and it DIDN'T fall for some reason then you would be in deep dodo. More elements, more chance of a single point failure, especially since you have to do all this covertly. The whole premise is insane.

Modern politics is run by many of the same kind of folks that run the entertainment industry. They know about "Message." There was a perfect opertunity to push Bush as a resolute war president on 9/11, a great opertunity to pain Rumsfelt as a survivor destined to lead the people on a campaign or retribution. If they set it up then they would have exploited that. Instead we saw 48 hours as they scrambled to react. As for the primary school incident, that made him look weak and undecisive, sure politicians kiss babies and want to be seen with kids. However reading kids stories while thousands burned to death is not a great image. In the real world he didnt have a clue what was going on, in your world he did, so he'd have known to look more presidential.

Finally a last thought because I can see we are getting nowhere. The central core of your theory runs like this. The Administration needs an excuse to go to war in the mid east and establish NWO. They do this by fiendishly masterminding a genius level intricate plot. Something so complex that any number of things could have gone wrong and left them looking at trial for treason. And yet even operating covertly they manage to co-ordinate hundreds of details and thousands of people flawlessly.

Then we are to believe that these people, having successfully pulled off the greatest piece of preplanning in human history go on to completely screw the pooch when they get what they want, war in the mid east. If they are as smart as you think they are 1) why is Iraq such a problem for them? and 2) how come you haven't been involved in some terible autoaccident on your way home to your mom's basement?

ANTIMASON

Tuesday, January 23, 2007 8:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by oldenglanddry:

People will believe what they want to believe.
You are a pretty classic example of that case in point and you've pretty much just substantiated everything i said

ok.. then admit that you believe government is relatively benevolent(with no alterior motive), because that is a faith certainly not supported by history

Quote:
Before I leave this thread to wind down to it's inevitably Pantomimic conclusion let me pose a question. I've posed it before and nobody has answered it satisfactorily so now you can have a go. It's simply this:

Why do the people who already run the world want to go to such elaborate lengths, and involve themselves in such incredible "plots" to attempt to take over the world that they are already in control of?

because they dont have there world government established yet.. that and population control are two obvious answeres; and they cannot track your person yet, or micromanage your behavior

KHYRON

Tuesday, January 23, 2007 8:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by antimason:
that and population control are two obvious answeres;

Can't be population control, birth rates soar in unstable and/or underdeveloped regions (with some exceptions), are at or below replacement level in stable and developed regions (with some exceptions). Starting a war may kill hundreds of thousands, but the dead will quickly be replaced by babies once the war is over.

The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.

FLETCH2

Tuesday, January 23, 2007 8:48 PM

Your problem AntiMason is that you think your conspiracy is the truth and the real world view the distraction. In reality you and guy's like you are the distraction. There are a lot of damned good questions about 9/11, things like inadiquacies in immigration control, issues with NORAD's response times, things you touch on only briefly in your Uber plot. However that touch is deadly it means that few people investigate them for fear of being labled a tinfoil hat wearer. Even if they did find anything, the rubbish folks like you and PN spew on the net muddy the waters so much it would be hard to be taken seriously.

There was evidence in the 1960's that the Airforce encouraged the reporting of experimental aircraft sightings and missle tests as UFO sightings and actively used the country's "Alien Watchers" to cover up their own tests. Are you sure that you are not being fed a rediculous fiction skillfully designed to discredit anyone investigating government negligence connected to 9/11?

Are you really working for them?

RUE

Tuesday, January 23, 2007 8:57 PM

"Starting a war may kill hundreds of thousands, but that number will quickly be replaced by babies once the war is over."

Just look at Iran today. Sure its population is skewed to the young, but the protracted war didn't put more than a ripple in its population.

OLDENGLANDDRY

Tuesday, January 23, 2007 11:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by antimason:

because they dont have there world government established yet.. that and population control are two obvious answeres; and they cannot track your person yet, or micromanage your behavior

There is a partial example of the self-perpetuation I was talking about.
You can come up with "reasons" for why the "plots" will never end because "they" have'nt done so-and-so yet Ad Infinitum.

The only real conspiracy is the number of distractionists out there deliberately spreading conspiracy theories.

You'r obviously one, but you'r just not very good at it yet.

ANTIMASON

Wednesday, January 24, 2007 7:00 AM

Quote:
oldenglanddry-

There is a partial example of the self-perpetuation I was talking about.
You can come up with "reasons" for why the "plots" will never end because "they" have'nt done so-and-so yet Ad Infinitum.

and youll constantly come up with excuses why everthing happens merely by accident, with no motive or cause.

where do you see the world 20 years from now? people accuse politicians of being shortsighted about the future, on important issues like global warming or 'terrorism'.. when the reality is, everything is going as planned, because there actually is a plan. in light of the doom and gloom forecasts.. you dont think any prominant elite have ever gotten together to establish a long term strategy to (re)shape the future and guide it in a specific direction(like a centralized one world government)? it would be naive for anyone to bipass concern about the future.. but the key is dont wrongly assume that our leaders have the avg persons best interests at heart, because they certainly dont

if you take a look at the CFR documents, 5 years from now the NAFTA SPP American Union will be finished, and we wont be a sovereign nation anymore, but something the equivelant to an EU(but worse). to a conspiracy theorist, that seems like a huge step towards global government... but in your mind, itll all just be happening randomly, by accident.. an unfortunate series of uncontrollable events. it only takes a little wisdom and foresight to see the direction society is headed.. but youll miss the warning signs if you arent paying attention

Quote:
The only real conspiracy is the number of distractionists out there deliberately spreading conspiracy theories.

again.. distractions from what? without us, all youd hear is establishment propoganda. i refuse to be a fool, and get bogged down in the endless partisan DISTRACTIONS.. the false debates that are fostered to use the 2 party system to polarize public opinion and grease the skids for communist NWO legistlation to be proposed and introduced. how does your worldview help preserve the constitution? if you believe theres a war on terror, than realize youre really fighting a war on freedom. wrap your brain around this, either youre with the government, and its banking masters, or you are "with the terrorists", Bush said it himself.

what is the difference between a terrorist and a criminal? the government says the difference is, a terrorist is not a human being, and has no rights. they both break the laws equally, regardless of their motive- but the "terrorist" is not recognized as a sovereign being. now maybe thats ok to you, i know ive heard other nazi-esque sentiments around here, like its ok to set up camps and throw 'terrorists' away.. but before we lose all empathy for other people, keep in mind that laws like the patriot and military commissions acts will soon be turning americans into terrorists

ANTIMASON

Wednesday, January 24, 2007 7:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:

Can't be population control, birth rates soar in unstable and/or underdeveloped regions (with some exceptions), are at or below replacement level in stable and developed regions (with some exceptions). Starting a war may kill hundreds of thousands, but the dead will quickly be replaced by babies once the war is over.

eugenics, forced sterilizations, euthenasia, abortion, there are a lot of ways it will be done..

OLDENGLANDDRY

Wednesday, January 24, 2007 8:16 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by antimason:

and youll constantly come up with excuses why everthing happens merely by accident, with no motive or cause.

Never said that, chum, but keep digging, we can still see you.

ANTIMASON

Wednesday, January 24, 2007 8:24 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fletch2:
Your problem AntiMason is that you think your conspiracy is the truth and the real world view the distraction.

a lot of prominant people have spoken about it, including people like Thomas Jefferson and Andrew Jackson.. i guess theyre crazy too? *(or just distractions)

Aldous Huxley (Brave New World)

Quote:
"A really efficient totalitarian state would be one in which the all-powerful executive of political bosses and their army of managers control a population of slaves who do not have to be coerced, because they love their servitude. To make them love it is the task assigned, in present-day totalitarian states, to ministries of propaganda, newspaper editors and schoolteachers.... The greatest triumphs of propaganda have been accomplished, not by doing something, but by refraining from doing. Great is truth, but still greater, from a practical point of view, is silence about truth."

Winston Churchill

Quote:
"From the days of Sparticus, Wieskhopf, Karl Marx, Trotsky, Rosa Luxemberg, and Emma Goldman, this world conspiracy has been steadily growing. This conspiracy played a definite recognizable role in the tragedy of the French revolution. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the 19th century. And now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their head and have become the undisputed masters of that enormous empire."

Benjamin Disraeli (first British Prime Minister)

Quote:
"The world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined by those who are not behind the scenes. The governments of the present day have to deal not merely with other governments, with emperors, kings and ministers, but also with Secret Societies which have everywhere their unscrupulous agents, and can at the last moment upset all the governments' plans."

Felix Frankfurter(Supreme Court Justice 1952)

Quote:
"The real rulers in Washington are invisible, and exercise power from behind the scenes."

Franklin Delano Roosevelt

Quote:
The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the large centers has owned the Government ever since the days of Andrew Jackson."

Albert Pike (33° Freemason)

Quote:
Fictions are necessary to the people, and the Truth becomes deadly to those who are not strong enough to contemplate it in all its brilliance. In fact, what can there be in common between the vile multitude and sublime wisdom? The truth must be kept secret, and the masses need a teaching proportioned to their imperfect reason.

FLETCH2

Wednesday, January 24, 2007 6:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by antimason:
Quote:
Originally posted by Fletch2:
Your problem AntiMason is that you think your conspiracy is the truth and the real world view the distraction.

a lot of prominant people have spoken about it, including people like Thomas Jefferson and Andrew Jackson.. i guess theyre crazy too? *(or just distractions)

Well since you don't actually quote them how can I tell? The ones you do quote all appear to be out of context, so we really have no idea what they are talking about. I'm sure if you fillet "Mein Kampf" you can make Hitler sound like he loves all the Jewish people. I haven't found any of the quotes you posted in larger context, just the same ones on the same foil hat websites. However from a good general knowledge of the people and times we can try and infer the original context.

Quote:

Aldous Huxley (Brave New World)
Quote:
"A really efficient totalitarian state would be one in which the all-powerful executive of political bosses and their army of managers control a population of slaves who do not have to be coerced, because they love their servitude. To make them love it is the task assigned, in present-day totalitarian states, to ministries of propaganda, newspaper editors and schoolteachers.... The greatest triumphs of propaganda have been accomplished, not by doing something, but by refraining from doing. Great is truth, but still greater, from a practical point of view, is silence about truth."

Says nothing except the truth about totalitarian states. You may wish to see America as such a state because it's consistant with your delusion. I do not and I doubt that most of the people here, even the ones that deeply loath the current administration, would consider America a totalitarian state.

Quote:

Winston Churchill
Quote:
"From the days of Sparticus, Wieskhopf, Karl Marx, Trotsky, Rosa Luxemberg, and Emma Goldman, this world conspiracy has been steadily growing. This conspiracy played a definite recognizable role in the tragedy of the French revolution. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the 19th century. And now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their head and have become the undisputed masters of that enormous empire."

You attribute this to Churchill but even the site you took these quotes from (one of the sites that obviously tell you what to think) doesn't give a proper reference, just saying "the London Press 1922." Assuming that the attribution is correct (and a lot of made up stuff gets attributed to Churchill) then this was probably in relation to the British governments deliberations on recognising Soviet Russia which Churchill opposed. Churchill had a knack in speeches of linking current events with historical ones. What is not being said here is that one "conspiracy" existed since Sparticus but that a line of thought continued from then.

Quote:

Benjamin Disraeli (first British Prime Minister)
Quote:
"The world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined by those who are not behind the scenes. The governments of the present day have to deal not merely with other governments, with emperors, kings and ministers, but also with Secret Societies which have everywhere their unscrupulous agents, and can at the last moment upset all the governments' plans."

Again can not find a none tinfoil source for this. However, both this quote and the one from Churchill come from men that were running the largest Empire the world had ever known, one that your pall Priate News STILL thinks runs the world. Yet the quotes are obviously not talking about THEIR side but about those that oppose them. That doesn't strike me as supporting your case. In as much as one world government has ever existed, it was run from Whitehall by these men. Unlike the UN, which can't manage to do anything these men commanded

ANTIMASON

Wednesday, January 24, 2007 7:36 PM

i quoted Thomas Jefferson in a previous post, where he warned of central banks and how they enslave populaces... its the same context as the other quotes, the same point, which is a global conspiracy.. but lets be frank: nothing will change your mind, because youre not ready for the truth; we'll have to wait for a global government before it becomes clear to you that all this information wasnt just forged and concocted for enterainment value

ANTIMASON

Wednesday, January 24, 2007 8:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fletch2:

Well since you don't actually quote them how can I tell? The ones you do quote all appear to be out of context, so we really have no idea what they are talking about. I'm sure if you fillet "Mein Kampf" you can make Hitler sound like he loves all the Jewish people.

because i guess its normal for a president to admit to the existence of a shadow government.. im sure it was just taken out of context though.. in fact, its all been taken out of context, what we missed was the "of course this is just speculation" portion of the quotes

Quote:
Says nothing except the truth about totalitarian states. You may wish to see America as such a state because it's consistant with your delusion.

im trying to prevent such a state from being ushered in by people like you, who refuse to accept the admitted threat of a global government

Quote:
I do not and I doubt that most of the people here, even the ones that deeply loath the current administration, would consider America a totalitarian state.

i frankly dont care WHAT people consider to be happening in their own minds... no one will address the FACT that we are ruled by an illegal central bank.. which was strictly forbid by the constitution.. and which is the cause, and proof of this global conspiracy. apparently no one here has yet to investigate it themselves, since the evidence is irrefutable

Quote:
You attribute this to Churchill but even the site you took these quotes from (one of the sites that obviously tell you what to think) doesn't give a proper reference, just saying "the London Press 1922." Assuming that the attribution is correct (and a lot of made up stuff gets attributed to Churchill) then this was probably in relation to the British governments deliberations on recognising Soviet Russia which Churchill opposed.

then you do not realize that the central banks created communism to be the antogonist to capitalism, and that western elite are, and always have been behind communism; but you could easily find that out for youself

Quote:
Again can not find a none tinfoil source for this. However, both this quote and the one from Churchill come from men that were running the largest Empire the world had ever known, one that your pall Priate News STILL thinks runs the world. Yet the quotes are obviously not talking about THEIR side but about those that oppose them. That doesn't strike me as supporting your case.

you just dont get it.. LOOK INTO THE CENTRAL BANKS< FOR THE LOVE OF GOD! i will not continue to repeat myself because you want to live in a fantasy land

Quote:
Absolutely, nobody here even questions that, just follow the money.

but who creates the money? the central banks, so then what is their motive?? global government, its really not that incomprehendable

Quote:
Capitalist economy which means that the people that own the capital have a disproportionate influence over events than those that don't. Case in point. Back in the early 1990's just after the Gingrich revolution the BBC looked into party fundraising in the US. What it found was that prior to the Republicans taking control of Congress Democrats collected the most money, after the change it was Republicans. Now think on that a moment. If a business made contributions based purely on ideological reasons -- say the board thought that Republican's economic policy was more "pro business" -- you would expect them to keep making contributions to that party irrespective of if it was in power or not. In fact if you truly believe in their platform then you're more likely to give them more when they are out of power, because you believe in their agenda and want to see it enacted. So from an ideological viewpoint there should be no change in funding, you would only expect the money to flow mainly to the encombant if those contributing believed that they would get favours for it. After all, the opposition is not really in a possition to force through legislation beneficial to you no matter what thei

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME

CITIZEN

Wednesday, January 24, 2007 9:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
The problem is that anything can be assumed without evidence.

I assume you are a rubber duck, discuss.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

FLETCH2

Wednesday, January 24, 2007 10:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
The problem is that anything can be assumed without evidence.
I assume you are a rubber duck, discuss.

Are you infering he's yellow?

CITIZEN

Wednesday, January 24, 2007 10:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fletch2:
Are you infering he's yellow?

I'm infering he's a French-Capitalist-Democratic-Duck. Long time enemy of the British-Commie-Nazi-Jews.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

ANTIMASON

Tuesday, February 13, 2007 8:10 PM

just another, in a string of recent news articles, continuing to blow the lid off the 9/11 lies

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,2011845,00.html

Quote:
Response: Don't believe the official 'conspiracy' theory

We have to ask who stood to gain the most from the appalling events of 9/11

Tim Sparke
London Guardian
Tuesday, February 13, 2007

George Monbiot's explicit attack on the film Loose Change (A 9/11 conspiracy virus is sweeping the world ..., February 6) has no basis in fact. While we accept that there are flaws in the current version of the film, we stand by its overarching theme that the official "conspiracy" theory of 9/11, constructed in the hours, days, weeks and months after 9/11, is false.

In uncritically endorsing the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) report, Monbiot neglects to say that the collapse mechanism for the entire World Trade Centre building was never documented by NIST - it didn't see it as its job. Additionally, in accepting that the towers collapsed at virtually free-fall speed ("the weight of the collapsing top storeys generated a momentum the rest of the building could not arrest"), Monbiot shows no awareness that this explanation violates the law of conservation of momentum.

Monbiot also appears oblivious to NIST's failure to explain that, although fire could not have melted any steel, there were pools of molten metal under the rubble, and these pools remained molten for weeks after the collapse; that dozens of people, including firefighters, news reporters and fleeing victims, all reported massive explosions; the clear video evidence of explosions taking place; that virtually all the concrete was pulverised into tiny particles; the apparent disintegration of the central steel core; and the destruction of all the evidence from America's biggest crime scene, which was covertly transported to Asian and African shores before any forensic examination could take place.

Monbiot then endorses the idea that Building 7 collapsed because "thousands of gallons of diesel [were poured] on to the fire" - oblivious to the fact that, even if an enormous fire could have caused a symmetrical collapse (which required all 81 steel columns to miraculously fail simultaneously), there was, as photographs and eyewitnesses reveal, no enormous fire. Monbiot also appears unaware that several engineers and demolition experts, after studying videos, have declared that this collapse can only have been caused by explosives.

Monbiot suggests that thousands of people must have been involved in the conspiracy, as if the official story must therefore be true. We have no clue as to how many (though some suggest probably fewer than 1,000); but wasn't the Manhattan project, involving 100,000, kept secret, even from Vice-President Truman, until weeks before the first atom bomb was dropped?

Monbiot then suggests that CounterPunch - by refuting the film's claims - has to be correct, because it is a left-leaning newspaper. But acceptance of the official "conspiracy" theory is not a left or right political issue. It is about whether we should accept unconditionally a story which defeats the laws of physics, denies the abundance of witness testimony, and rejects video evidence put forward by an organisation, which, in hindsight, we know had the means, motive and opportunity, and also has a record of being economical with the truth.

We agree that our movie can't answer all the questions that millions of people now have - but the fact that Loose Change is the most downloaded film in internet history is the strongest argument for an honest public debate, and a truly independent inquiry. As we say in the 9/11 Truth Movement: ask questions, demand answers, investigate 9/11.

Tim Sparke is executive producer of Loose Change Final Cut. tim@joiningthedots.tv