...and still the war against women continues

POSTED BY: Niki2
UPDATED: Friday, August 5, 2011 05:21
VIEWED: 6652
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MAGONSDAUGHTER

Sunday, July 31, 2011 7:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:

Since ultrasound is already well established to cause mental deficiencies in the child I think it is generally now avoided unless there is already a complication; the reference was to third world applications. Anyway, statistically, it's worth noting that 75% of abortions that follow an ultrasound are, or would have been, girls.

I've never seen any research to link ultrasound to mental deficiencies. By all accounts my son should be a class a moron, given that I must have had about 4 during his gestation. I'd be interested in you had any links to any research to back your claims.

Ultrasounds are routinely used throughout the western world. A 12 week ultrasound is used to detect ectopic pregancy, which occur in about 2% of all pregnancies, although mine was a very rare one, being on the ovary rather than in the fallopian tube. It is also now routinely used to measure the nuchal fold at this stage, an early way of detecting down syndrome. 20 week scans are also routine to check the foetal development. All scans are optional, but most pregnant women I've known have had at least one ultrasound during their term. You may not be able to understand this, but pregnancy can be quite an anxious time for women and testing can be very reassuring, as well as picking up problems.

Most abortions that follow ultrasounds would be due to an indicator of foetal abnormality, usually followed by other tests to confirm. I'm speaking of western countries here, where girls are probably more desired than boys. Better clothing range for your baby, dahling. A lot of women have ultrasounds even if they have no intent to abort an abnormal foetus, but find it useful to prepare themselves and their families for difficult times ahead.

It sometimes feels as if you and I live in different universes rather than different countries, our understanding of the world is so different.

FREMDFIRMA

Sunday, July 31, 2011 8:02 AM

No, it provokes intelligent debate, just intelligent (albeit passionate) debate that doesn't agree with you.

And since there's no moderator to run crying to when you fact-deficient and illogical arguments get smashed to powder, you're reduced to throwing a temper tantrum about us discussing a topic you don't like, in a fashion you disagree with.

I need not point out the irony of you whinging about us discussing a topic, in that topic itself, but I will anyway cause you've been deliberately insulting, and playing passive-aggressive bullshit games - if you don't wanna participate, don't - but if you wanna troll the topic and wreck it cause you don't like what is being discussed or how, you've no cause to be surprised or offended if I choose then to treat you like a fucking vandal about it.

You wanna discuss, discuss, you don't, don't.
But don't come here and whinge and whine and whimper that you don't wanna discuss is, cause what the hell, exactly, ARE you doing, then ?

-Frem
PS. I can be more progressively insulting, believe it, cause you're all but begging for it, you look ridiculous and petty.

I do not serve the Blind God.

AURAPTOR

Sunday, July 31, 2011 1:53 PM

Quote:
Speaking of which, who is paying for this mandated procedure? Are you planning on taking MY money and using it to pay for these medical procedures? Or are you planning on telling every pregnant woman that she MUST have such a procedure, and MUST pay for it out of her own pocket? I thought you used to have a problem with government telling people how and where to spend their money...

A woman comes in to a clinic, on her own, seeking to get a medical procedure. And no one is denying that 'right'. As part of the deal, she has to get a ultrasound. And pay for it. That's the price of doing business.

Don't like it ? Don't opt for the procedure.

Simple.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

KWICKO

Sunday, July 31, 2011 2:13 PM

So by the same logic, you'd fully support a state law that said in order to buy a home, you are required by law to join a homeowners' association, and you are required by law to pay.

Right?

I mean, if you don't want to join, just don't buy a home.

Simple.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

AURAPTOR

Sunday, July 31, 2011 2:43 PM

Don't buy a home 'there'.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

HERO

Sunday, July 31, 2011 3:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
I mean, if you don't want to join, just don't buy a home.

What if you get drunk at a party and the next morning wake up in bed with a real estate agent and a couple weeks later you find out your a homeowner?

Thats how I got my condo.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I would rather not ignore your contributions." Niki2, 2010.

THEHAPPYTRADER

Sunday, July 31, 2011 5:35 PM

At what point should a woman's right to choose overrule a child's right to live? I don't think counciling and a 24 hour wait are unreasonable precautions when making the decision to end a fetus's life. It is kind of a big deal. However this mandatory ultrasound procedure sounds costly and unnecessary.

This has probably been said before, but you are unlikely to win over hearts and minds when you brand your opposition as 'sexist.' Is it sexist to be concerned about the fate of an unborn child? The fetus could be female too after all.

BYTEMITE

Sunday, July 31, 2011 5:44 PM

Magons: DT said "vaginal ultrasounds" are more risky as far as I can see, not that regular ultrasounds result in immediate child death or brain damage.

Kwicko: Um. Are we comparing sex to owning a house? Because I know some people put sex in the same hierarchy of needs as shelter, but that is just an entirely bizarre and foreign concept to me.

Not to say there aren't different kinds of shelter... You know what, I think maybe this thread just got too metaphorical for me.

KWICKO

Sunday, July 31, 2011 5:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Magons: DT said "vaginal ultrasounds" are more risky as far as I can see, not that regular ultrasounds result in immediate child death or brain damage.

Kwicko: Um. Are we comparing sex to owning a house? Because I know some people put sex in the same hierarchy of needs as shelter, but that is just an entirely bizarre and foreign concept to me.

No, we're comparing being forced to have a child because you can't afford a medical procedure to buying a home - another important and life-changing decision.

Hey, suppose that every man who ever wants Viagra be forced to undergo a full EKG and heart stress test before he's allowed to get Viagra. Oh, and he has to pay for all that out of pocket, and insurance will never be allowed to help pay for it.

Nobody really *NEEDS* Viagra, Cialis, or any of that crap, after all.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

BYTEMITE

Sunday, July 31, 2011 5:59 PM

Quote:
Hey, suppose that every man who ever wants Viagra be forced to undergo a full EKG and heart stress test before he's allowed to get Viagra. Oh, and he has to pay for all that out of pocket, and insurance will never be allowed to help pay for it.

Nobody really *NEEDS* Viagra, Cialis, or any of that crap, after all.

Huh. Kwicko, I think you just invented a viable form of male birth control.

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