...and still the war against women continues

POSTED BY: Niki2
UPDATED: Friday, August 5, 2011 05:21
VIEWED: 6652
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BYTEMITE

Saturday, July 30, 2011 4:11 AM

Kwicko: That's not fair, even I've been a little scarce lately. And when I'm not scarce I've been spamming the RWED because all the topics are about economics and the tea party.

KWICKO

Saturday, July 30, 2011 4:44 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Kwicko: That's not fair, even I've been a little scarce lately. And when I'm not scarce I've been spamming the RWED because all the topics are about economics and the tea party.

Which rather proves my point that discussion of abortion in no way is "killing the forum".

I get tired of people whinging about this or that thing "killing the forum". If a forum dedicated to a half-season TV show that was cancelled nearly a decade ago hasn't been killed yet, then I don't really worry that discussing a single divisive issue is going to be the death knell for it.

This is probably about the thirty-seventh thing that I've heard people claim is "killing this forum", and I bet nobody even remembers what the other 36 were.

We talk about things that are in the news. DT talks about fracking, which few people seem to want to discuss in much detail or with much vigor. I don't accuse him of "spamming" the place with it, or of "killing the forum" with it. Everybody has their own issues that are close to their heart and important to them. For Niki, reproductive choice is one of those issues, as it is one of mine, even though I'll never have an abortion in my life.

DT seems to be insisting that Niki stop posting about an issue that she cares about, simply because (a) he's against it, and (b) he's been unable to support his position with facts and win others over to his position. So rather than simply accepting the truth of the matter and simply staying out of such threads, he feels the need to try to portray himself as superior and talk down to everybody in telling them how uncouth they are for "killing the forum" by discussing something which he doesn't want to discuss.

My simple advice for anyone who doesn't want to discuss an issue is this: Shut the fuck up about it, then. DON'T discuss it if you're against discussing it.

And if you're against abortion, my advice is this: Don't have one.

Is it really that hard?

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

BYTEMITE

Saturday, July 30, 2011 5:00 AM

Sure.

But it's also not cowardly to lose interest in the board for a while either.

AURAPTOR

Saturday, July 30, 2011 5:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

It'll stand, because it infringes on no one's civil liberties.

LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

The first of these Rights being so aptly pointed out, and for good reason.

Where is that in the Constitution? (Hint: Herman Cain doesn't know either!)

By the way, nice to see that you fully support the government being able to order you to have medical procedures without your consent.

How very "libertarian" of you.

Never said it was in the Constitution, genius.

And further more, what 'medical procedure' is being ordered here ? No one is ordering, or denying any gorram procedure.

I think you have a problem with your brain being missing.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

KWICKO

Saturday, July 30, 2011 7:44 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

It'll stand, because it infringes on no one's civil liberties.

LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

The first of these Rights being so aptly pointed out, and for good reason.

Where is that in the Constitution? (Hint: Herman Cain doesn't know either!)

By the way, nice to see that you fully support the government being able to order you to have medical procedures without your consent.

How very "libertarian" of you.

Never said it was in the Constitution, genius.

Then what makes you think that it's a "right"?

Quote:

And further more, what 'medical procedure' is being ordered here ? No one is ordering, or denying any gorram procedure.

You honestly don't think an ultrasound sonography is a medical procedure?

Do you think you can stop off and pick one up at the 7-11? Do you think they're performed by the guy at the Jiffy Lube? If it's such an important decision, are you NOT requiring that the procedure be performed by a licensed medical professional? Really?

Speaking of which, who is paying for this mandated procedure? Are you planning on taking MY money and using it to pay for these medical procedures? Or are you planning on telling every pregnant woman that she MUST have such a procedure, and MUST pay for it out of her own pocket? I thought you used to have a problem with government telling people how and where to spend their money...

I think it is you who has a problem with your brain being missing. Certainly seems that way.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Saturday, July 30, 2011 8:00 AM

You shouldn't even be forced to have one even if you intending on carrying through with the pregnancy.

DREAMTROVE

Saturday, July 30, 2011 10:55 AM

I actually counted posts. They slowed down considerably, and if you discount abortion threads: came to a stand-still.

This is completely apart from my feelings on the subject, or my strong suspicion that every time we bring it up we're handing the republicans an automatic victory, just as the GOP does for us on immigration. Just consider the demographics: The national is absolutely filled with christians and latinos, who are almost all catholics. If either party wanted to win debates, it would be the democrats forcing debates on immigration and the republicans forcing debates on abortion.

But why win debates? That's not what we're here for. From the point of view of FFF, I will say what I have posted many times over the years on such threads: "That's what really interested me about Firefly: The abortions."

This is idiocy. So, now let's make it 66 threads about abortion. Yay. It's an emotional issue and we are easily tricked into a pointless debate. People posting nasty stuff are not douchebags, they have been emotionally affected and so they go off. I did it, Frem did it, everyone can do it.

As for the issue? I posted a thread on women's issues, and only Byte and Magon were at all interested in the topic, and both also went on to post about abortion. It just derails the conversation. Everyone posting is looking to gain an upper hand against their fellow browncoats by doing so. This is not a constructive way for us to collectively behave.

Mike,

Me and Byte off board came to the conclusion that ultrasound basically served as a form of female infanticide. This argument might not work if you're not RTL, but statistically, it's worth measuring in to your equation.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

KWICKO

Saturday, July 30, 2011 3:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
You shouldn't even be forced to have one even if you intending on carrying through with the pregnancy.

Exactly. You shouldn't be FORCED to have one, period.

KWICKO

Saturday, July 30, 2011 4:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:

Mike,

Me and Byte off board came to the conclusion that ultrasound basically served as a form of female infanticide. This argument might not work if you're not RTL, but statistically, it's worth measuring in to your equation.

There are absolutely risks and side effects, and not all of them are known. Forcing it on people seems about as well-advised as pRick Perry's attempt to force Gardasil on every schoolgirl.

NIKI2

Saturday, July 30, 2011 4:37 PM

Wow

Quote:
what 'medical procedure' is being ordered here ? No one is ordering, or denying any gorram procedure.

It is, as Mike said, DEFINITELY a medical procedure, and it is DEFINITELY being "ordered", if the woman has chosen to have an abortion. It's being ordered BY LAW. It's the equivalent of forcing men to watch a gory movie about abortion and get lectured about the sanctity of life if they want to get a vasectomy. Those aren't even medical procedures, but the concept is similar.

The basic premise is that the government shouldn't have it's fingers in reproductive rights, and it's obvious that these people do NOT want smaller government, they just want government to enforce what they want. It's not fiscally responsible, either, given it requires people to do the procedures and those people have to be paid; all for a totally unnecessary procedure THEY're also forced to do by law.

As to DT, "what Mike said". The board isn't any slower that I can see than it's been since I came. If anything, it's less vicious right now, and a LOT of people were either driven off or come less often because of the ugliness here; you wanna make the forum busier? Put up your own posts on other subjects. This IS the Real World Events forum; this IS a real world event (given, as I said, the law was JUST passed), and your remark about Firefly is stupid. Virtually every other forum here is about Firefly or Firefly related, etc., you can go to those if you wish. This one is about events which we're interested in.

Essentially your argument is purely "I don't want to see any more threads on this subject", but nobody's forcing you to even read any thread on the subject, much less contribute to the thread. Saying they came to a "stand still" is insane; I come here every morning, and there are ALWAYS active threads and ALWAYS new threads about things besides abortion. Actually, your statement that "if you discount abortion threads: came to a stand-still" is a prime example of why we disagree. It's not true, yet you state it as a fact. It might be your IMPRESSION, but that doesn't make it true, and it definitely isn't.

Quote:
People posting nasty stuff are not douchebags, they have been emotionally affected and so they go off

BullSHIT! We have people who are nasty because that's their WAY, they don't care about being civil and they make that completely obvious and you know it.

Because you posted about something and there was little interest has nothing to do with anything. I post stuff every day (or try to) and a number of those threads don't catch on, or else they get thread-jacked. I don't mind, I CERTAINLY don't take it personally as you seem to; people contribute to threads they're interested in. I don't even read some threads whose titles indicate something of no interest to me. You can do the same. There are many threads on unimportant topics posted here; some issues come back up because of recent developments, some are purely personal diatribes, some are silly. The content is up to those who put threads up, whether they take hold or not is up to what interests people.

It comes down, basically, to something I used to get accuse of when I'd plead for civility: That you want to control us. You disapprove of this subject, for whatever reason(s), and want us not to discuss it further. You have no right to do so. End of story.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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