How to win an argument with Liberals-Progressives-Socialists-etc...

POSTED BY: Wulfenstar
UPDATED: Thursday, June 16, 2011 09:23
VIEWED: 32999
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BYTEMITE

Thursday, June 9, 2011 2:47 PM

Back in the old days, kids just used to make friends in their neighborhoods, or go to parks, or maybe even they'd join a group like the cub scouts (though I'm leery of that organization's religious connections). It's really not as tricky as people make it out to be. There are other kids everywhere.

STORYMARK

Thursday, June 9, 2011 2:54 PM

Socials skills, like any other skill, are learned. Throwing them out in the neighborhood and saying "go learn to interact, with all these kids who've been doing it far, far more. Good luck. Bye." doesn't tend to yield ideal results. The notion that homeschooled kids have social issues didn't just spring up from nowhere.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

HARDWARE

Thursday, June 9, 2011 3:33 PM

KPO,
Sorry, I missed your question in the noise. I'm something of a rational anarchist. If you have read the novel Freehold by Michael Z. Williamson, that would come closes to my ideal government. Laws should be prohibitions on certain types of behavior. Murder, rape, assault, simply put an act of two parties to which one party has not consented. Not the same as an act of two parties by consent which one party changes their mind in the middle of. There should also be laws against abuse of office, with extremely stiff penalties. Penalties like death.

Governments should be formed for the purpose of undertaking projects the citizens themselves cannot perform. Sewage can be handled by a corporation. Water supply can likewise be handled by a corporate entity. (in fact, it is where I live) Power supply, corporations. Phone or network connectivity, again corporations. EMS in my area is handled by a volunteer fire company. They take donations or they charge you for an ambulance ride. Some fire companies also have subscription plans or charge for call outs. Sounds horrible? I don't know. It is my choice to pay ahead of time or pay for the services I use. So, really, what does my tax dollar buy? Schooling? I don't use it. Surface streets? I'm okay with that, although I wish we had more sidewalks and a livable neighborhood that didn't require you to own a car.
Public safety? A misnomer. Even if I am attacked all that happens if a police officer will come around to get a description of my attacker and file it. No investigation, no pursuit unless the attacker is still present. Basically the only crime that gets investigated by police any more is murder.

So why do I need a government? Seriously? I have a large tax burden for which I receive next to nothing in return. Doesn't really sound fair.

My question back to you is this; what services do you receive from the Feral Government (no typo) that you could just not live without?

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

SKYDIVELIFE

Thursday, June 9, 2011 4:09 PM

HardWare, I guess my answer would be the military? Maybe the mail?

I like the idea of most services being run by local people and companies. If your trash doesnt get picked up on time, you can change companies. Same goes for the condition of roads, and the school system.

Even the police can be outsourced and run by local people.

Medicare and Medicaid are a problem. But maybe companies could be given insentives to offer 401k Matched Asset Plans to all their employees?

Then you have the problem of small business not having the capitol to offer those benefits.

Is there a way around that?

BYTEMITE

Thursday, June 9, 2011 4:30 PM

Storymark, I think that might be relative, though. As I think Skydivelife noted, they've seen both homeschool kids who had socialization issues, and ones who didn't. It really depends on who's doing the teaching at home and what the kids get up to in their free time.

Furthermore, it's not like I'm saying drop one completely. Even the ye olde days I'm trying to compare to, you had homeschooled versus kids who maybe went to a single room classroom provided by the community, who paid to hire a teacher.

FREMDFIRMA

Thursday, June 9, 2011 5:58 PM

Take the Third Option.

Sudbury-Model or Free-School - something I support wholeheartedly and intensely, we have a couple of these (several more than Wiki lists) in Ann Arbor, including a High School, and get this - they have a WAITING LIST, despite tuition there being slightly more than average.

And yes, I've subsidized a few of the students, one might almost call that an Anarchist Scholarship Program, but I see it as a good investment since I've found these schools to be educationally superior as well as not so morally and socially reprehensible as public schools.

S'funny, Hardware, I know Mikey-Z, and while Freehold is prolly his best work, not too impressed with the rest of his stuff, especially Better to beg forgiveness (He's got *issues* racially-socially, but not without some cause) which turned my stomach, although I pointedly did *not* offer a bad review of it cause him and his family gotta make a buck somehow.
From the other end, you might try Le Guins The Dispossessed as an interesting counterpart to Freehold.

And also, yes, there ARE things worth collectively bargaining for even without Government, that would even with Anarchists mostly function the same way, as noted, public utilities, sewage, trash collection...
Only those societies would be less inclined to allow exploitive sponsored monopolies as is the current state of affairs.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

BYTEMITE

Thursday, June 9, 2011 6:13 PM

Correction: Skydivelife.

Hi! Are you new?

SKYDIVELIFE

Thursday, June 9, 2011 6:24 PM

Hi Bytemite, yeah I'm new. I've been reading here for a little bit. Just wanted to make a statement about being home schooled and the rest.

BYTEMITE

Thursday, June 9, 2011 6:27 PM

Well, don't let us scare you off. :) We do have some fun sometimes, and even with some of the volatile infighting, we often have some excellent commentary on real world events and issues. Welcome to the board.

SKYDIVELIFE

Thursday, June 9, 2011 6:29 PM

Thanks. :)

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